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Wolf

Manhunt for Ferguson Shooting Suspects; Prayers for Officers; Shooting of Officers Adds to City's Tensions; Obama Says No Excuse for Criminal Acts; Retracing Path Of Bullets That Hit Officers In Ferguson; Retracing the Path of Bullets; Challenges Posed by ISIS

Aired March 13, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 5:00 p.m. in London, 7:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 8:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, a manhunt for suspects and prayers for two police officers wounded in an ambush.

Here are the latest developments on the shootings in Ferguson, Missouri. Police say they've identified two people they want to question and one of them may be the shooter. But they haven't released the names of any possible suspects.

St. Louis County and Missouri State Police have taken over the security detail for protest marches in Ferguson. Last night's demonstration was much smaller and no arrests were made.

Clergy members and others called for calm at the vigil for the wounded officers. They offered prayers for the officers, their families and every victim of violence on the streets of Ferguson.

Police say finding the person who shot those two officers is their top priority right now.

Let's get an update on the manhunt and the investigation. CNN's Alina Machado is joining us now from Ferguson. Alina, what can you tell us about these two people wanted for questioning by police?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we know that authorities here in Missouri are doing everything they can to find the person responsible for this shooting. And as you mentioned, a law enforcement source has told CNN that investigators believe they have identified two people they want to talk to and that one of those people could possibly be the shooter.

We reached out to the St. Louis County Police Department just a little -- a little while ago to get an update from them and also ask about the status of those two people. And a spokesperson denied having identified anyone. That same spokesperson, Wolf, did tell us, again, that no one is in custody.

BLITZER: Is the shooting of the two officers -- I -- It's added to an already tense situation in Ferguson, Alina. Give us a little sense of the mood there on the streets where you are.

MACHADO: Well, you know, it's interesting to note that things here seem to be business as usual which is surprising because we would imagine that things would be very tense. We've noticed that there was a protest last night and that there were a few dozen people who showed up. Both the protesters and the police officers who were there seemed very calm, very relaxed. But, Wolf, we do know there is no doubt that the shooting is weighing very heavily on the minds of these officers here.

BLITZER: And we know last night they brought in state troopers, county police to replace, really, the local Ferguson Police Department, to take charge of the security around the protests. We saw a much smaller demonstration last night. As I mentioned, no arrests. What are police expecting later tonight?

MACHADA: Well, we haven't heard of any planned protests here for tonight. But that doesn't mean, of course, that there won't be. We could imagine that police will be prepared to respond to whatever ends up happening. And it's worth noting that, you can see, the ground is wet. It's been raining here all day, so weather could play a factor on how many people end up coming out here if there is a protest -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we'll stay in close touch with you, Alina. Thank you very much.

The shooting of the two police officers adds to an already simmering amount of tensions in Ferguson. Religious leaders and others gathered to pray for the officers and for the community at a candlelight vigil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine. Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Obama has spoken publicly about the shootings now for the first time. Here's what he said on ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel" last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no excuse for criminal acts. And whoever fired those shots shouldn't detract from the issue. They're criminals. They need to be arrested. And then, what we need to do is to make sure that like-minded, good-spirited people on both sides, law enforcement who have a terrifically tough job, and people who understandably don't want to be stopped and harassed just because of their race, that we're able to work together to try to come up with some good answers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now to talk about the president's response, the administration's response and what happens next in Ferguson is April Ryan. She's the White House Correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks. And she's also the author of a brand-new and very important book, let's put a picture of it up on the screen right there, "The Presidency in Black and White; My Up-Close View of Three Presidents and Race in America." She's also a good friend of mine. April, thanks very much for joining us.

APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, do you think the president is striking the right tone right now? This whole issue of race relations. He's been in the -- the president for six years. What do you think?

RYAN: He's striking the perfect tone. I mean, what happened recently with the shooting of these two police officers is despicable. He had to strike that tone. But he also has to let the community and the world know that we have to support the police but, at the same time, still root out the bad policing. So, he did indeed strike the right tone.

BLITZER: Because a lot of his critics say he should never have gotten involved in Ferguson. It was a local issue. He should never really have done what he did.

RYAN: No, I disagree because we have seen in the news what happened with Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and so many other situations. I mean, we look back to what happened in L.A. with Rodney King. So, we have -- we have a pervasive issue that continues to happen. And now, we're seeing visuals of it. And that's really putting it in the president's lap more so than ever before with any other president.

BLITZER: He's our first African-American president. We also have an African-American attorney general of the United States. The outgoing attorney general, Eric Holder. He spoke out about these shootings of the police officers in Ferguson. Let me play this clip for you.

RYAN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: This was not someone trying to bring healing to Ferguson. This was --this was a damn punk. A punk who was trying to sow discord in an area that is trying to get its act together and trying to bring together a community that has been fractured for too long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He called him a damn punk. We think the suspect or suspects, obviously, they're still on the loose right now. How do you think Eric Holder has been dealing with this issue?

RYAN: I think Eric Holder did the right thing in going out and talking against the actions that happened against the police officers which were totally wrong. Anytime you have anyone who goes up against law enforcement that means lawlessness. And you do not want that in any community.

But Eric Holder has surprised us with many of the details of that scathing report that came out. And I was really surprised. If you close your eyes and don't look at the date, you would think it's something in the 1950s and 1960s. So, he was right to detail what happened and talk about it. But he was also right in condemning the actions against those police officers.

BLITZER: In your new book, "The Presidency in Black and White," you talk about three presidents, --

RYAN: Yes.

BLITZER: -- President Bill Clinton, President Bush and now President Obama and the whole issue of race. Our recent CNN poll, it's very disturbing when you take a look at this. Race relations in America, have they gotten better or worse? And you can see the numbers over there. Shortly after he was inaugurated president of the United States, 32 percent of the American public thought race relations would be better under President Obama. It's gone down now to 15 percent. 6 percent thought, you know, his being a president would make it worse. It's now gone up to 39 percent. 59 percent then thought it was about the same. 45 percent right now.

But, clearly, more people think race relations in America are worse than they were before he took office. How do you -- you've studied this in your book. How do you explain that?

RYAN: Yes, I researched it. This nation was on such a high when we elected the first black president. I remember being at the White House and you were the one who told me at night -- that night that President Obama was going to be the next president, the 44th president of the United States. And there was a spontaneous crowd that came to the White House because they were so overjoyed. That we shift -- we did a shift in the fabric of this country and there was so much hope.

But the reality of the day is that this is a problem. Issues of race is a problem that's centuries old. We have not gotten to the root, and we were still a hypersensitive community that we -- people sit on different spectrums of it, and we are scared to talk about it, civilly. And it's such a hypersensitive issue that we have yet found a way to talk about it.

BLITZER: Because you went down to Selma last weekend for the 50th --

RYAN: Yes.

BLITZER: -- anniversary of the commemoration of that bloody Sunday. I know you spoke to the president down in Selma as well. What do we need to do?

RYAN: You know what we need to do? We need to have a civil conversation and put the facts on the table because many people like to talk about what they think. But there are facts. There are disproportionate numbers of African-Americans who are at the lowest rung of any sector in this community. You have disproportionate numbers when it comes to unemployment, housing, education, criminal justice. The facts are what is going to bear the truth for the conversation to begin.

BLITZER: We have a lot of work to do, as you point out in your new book, "The Presidency in Black and White." April, thanks very much for joining us.

RYAN: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck with the new book.

RYAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Just ahead, how could a shooter hit two officers from more than 300 feet away with a handgun? Our Law Enforcement Analyst, the formers FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, he's going to walk us through the crime scene. He is there.

And later, the admiral in charge of protecting the United States from attack warns that Russian warplanes are showing more aggression now more than any time, he says, since the cold war. We're going to assess what he says is a rising risk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got an officer down, officer down. Shots fired at the station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All cars in route. There's an officer down. Officer need of aid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer down 222 South (INAUDIBLE.)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was part of the police dispatch traffic following the shooting of two police officers in Ferguson, Missouri. An intense manhunt is now underway for the shooter or shooters. A key part of the investigation is to determine where the shots came from. Here is what the St. Louis County police chief initially said about witness accounts of the shootings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: When they heard the shots and when they heard the bullets zinging past that they saw muzzle flashes. But these muzzle flashes were probably about 125 yards away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That's about 375 feet. That's farther than the length of a football field. Could the shots have come from that far away?

Our CNN Law Enforcement Analyst, the former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, is joining us now from Ferguson. Tom, you're there on the scene where these shots supposedly came from. Walk us through the scene. Show us what kind of distance we're actually talking about.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: OK, Wolf, I'm standing at about the distance that the shots were fired from, the location on the street where they were fired at the top of the hill. And looking down the hill and actually being here on site has changed my perspective on what I thought happened that night. You know, initially, I thought that the shooter had enough elevation to shoot over the top of the protesters and hit the police officers. But now, having come out here, I see that it's really not enough elevation.

And talking to Susan Weich within the last few hours about what happened that night, and she's a "St. Louis Post-Dispatch" reporter, she was on site that night and said that before the shooting happened, the police -- as the crowd was starting to dwindle, the police moved them out of the way. So, some of the crowd was to my left in this parking lot. Some were to the right in this parking lot over here by a tire store.

And, really, there were no protesters in the street. So the shooter would have had a clear line of fire at the police officers without having to worry about hitting a protester in the way.

BLITZER: You've also suggested, Tom -

FUENTES: As we're going down the hill --

BLITZER: I was going to say, you've suggested (INAUDIBLE) towards the police station over there that the shooter may actually have been on the roof of a building. What makes you think that?

FUENTES: Well, I had thought that initially, that that was a possibility, simply because of the elevation. I thought that if the shooter had protesters creating a human shield between the shooting and the police, that they might have need more elevation. But Susan Welch, who was down very close to where the officers were shot, on site that night, looked up and she said that the flashes, the angle of these rooftops is too much to the side compared to looking straight up the street, which is what the witnesses said, that the shots were fired up the road, a muzzle flash from each shot was seen by a number of witness behind me up this street at the top of the hill. And the angle of these two rooftops is too much that she's convinced that she and other witnesses would have seen the shooter if the shots came from the top of the buildings that are over here.

BLITZER: And -

FUENTES: We're going to try to cross the street.

BLITZER: Be careful.

FUENTES: OK, we're crossing the street here. I'm going to show you where the officers with standing right. On the other side of this fence near the fire hydrant in this grassy area here between the sidewalk and the police and fire station parking lot is where the two officers that were hit were standing. And there was a line of officers basically side by side right across here when the shots rang out. Those two officers went down. Susan Welch, the reporter, was a little bit further beyond this brick wall over here and, in fact, was calling her people to tell them that the crowd was dissipating and it was going to be time to go home pretty soon and then the shots rang out.

Now, across the street, going back, you can see from this angle, on the left side you have the tire store, on the right side you have another strip mall. That's where the protesters had all been moved to by the police. So, from here, on the sidewalk looking back up the hill, you can see that a shooter at the top of that hill, with no protesters, no pedestrians on the street, would have had a clear shot down the hill directly at the police officers in the grass behind me.

BLITZER: And you still believe, Tom, as we discussed yesterday, that shooter was using a pistol or a handgun as opposed to some sort of rifle? Because that's a pretty long distance to be that accurate. Hit one police officer in the face, in the cheek, another police officer in the shoulder from, what, 125 yards?

FUENTES: No, it's a - it's a tremendously difficult shot, Wolf. I'm very skeptical of it. But the people here, including Susan, the reporter, said that the bullets sounded like firecrackers and that's very consistent with the sound of a pistol shot outdoors. It's not as powerful as a rifle. And that the other side of that is, the police have the bullet casings and they have said it's consistent with a handgun. So they believe the handgun was used. And that's what they've been searching for as the murder - or the attempted murder weapon. And based on that and the fact also, not to be too gruesome, but getting shot in the face with a rifle, it's hard for me to believe that that would not have been fatal compared to a pistol shot, which the officer did survive.

BLITZER: All right, Tom Fuentes for us walking on the streets over there right near the police station with an excellent explanation of what happened. Appreciate it very much, Tom, as our law enforcement analyst.

Still to come, new footage emerging of those three British schoolgirls who allegedly ran away to join ISIS in Syria. We're also learning more about the man who supposedly helped them. Details just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Central Intelligence Agency director John Brennan is addressing the Council on Foreign Relations in New York this afternoon. The director spoke about the international developments and the trends that concern the CIA the most, including, of course, the terror attacks that have occurred, especially most recently in Copenhagen and Paris. And he stressed the special challenges presented by terror groups like ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: These attacks underscore a disturbing trend that we have been monitoring for some time. The emergence of a terrorist threat that is increasingly decentralized, difficult to track and even more difficult to thwart. While it is true that the United States and its allies have had considerable success degrading the capabilities of core al Qaeda, various al Qaeda affiliates and other terrorist organizations have surged in other countries. Countries such as Libya, Egypt, Somalia, Nigeria, and especially Yemen, where al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula has demonstrated a capability to plot attacks well beyond Yemen's borders, including in our homeland.

But no region has gained more of the world's attention than Syria and Iraq where ISIL is waging a campaign of unspeakable brutality against the local population and indeed against anyone who does not share its ideology. ISIL is well-armed and well-financed. Its fighters are disciplined, committed and battle-hardened. Left unchecked, the group would pose a serious danger not only to Syria and Iraq but to the wider region and beyond, including the threat of attacks in the homeland of the United States and the homelands of our partners.

This will be a long-term struggle. ISIL will not be rolled back overnight. If there is one thing we have learned over the years, it is that success against terrorism requires patience and determination. Clearly our country will be dealing with terrorism in one form or another for many years to come.

What makes terrorism --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A sober assessment from John Brennan, the CIA director.

Meantime, there are brand-new developments regarding those missing British schoolgirls who ran away from their homes allegedly to join ISIS fighters in Syria. These pictures that just fed in clearly show the girls grabbing their bags, although it's not clear yet exactly where these pictures were taken. This video is said to be from a Turkish border area with Syria.

Let's talk about all of this with CNN counterterrorism analyst Philp Mudd, who's joining us here right now.

Let's get back to Brennan for a second. Very sober, no mission accomplished declarations. This is going to go on for years and years. You heard him say that. I assume you agree.

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think you've got to look at where we started years ago. When we sat at the threat table with NCI Director Tennant in 2002, for example, we knew where the target was focused. We had been surprised by September 11th. But the focus of the operations we had were in the tribal areas of Pakistan, where most of al Qaeda's leadership has gone. Where would you focus today? Boko Haram in Nigeria? Al Shabaab in Somalia? Al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula in Yemen? I haven't even mentioned ISIS yet. So you look at how successful in some ways the al Qaeda revolution has been. We don't have the kind of strategic threat we face with al Qaeda, but the dispersal of threat makes this a lot harder for an intelligence service. BLITZER: A lot of us find it really hard -- these young schoolgirls,

15, 16, 17 years old, they come from Britain, they go to Turkey and all of a sudden they're joining ISIS inside Syria. How does this kind of stuff happen? Don't they have security over there along that border?

MUDD: I think this is what - the real effect of social media. And these girls were recruited partly through social media. Back years ago you'd have to get face to face to a terrorist to get recruited. Right now somebody can say to a 15-year-old, an impressionable girl, you can go to ISIS on summer vacation, join the place where you can practice their faith in purity. These girls, in essence, weren't recruited to ISIS. They were told, I'm sure, that they could have an easy time and a place where they could practice their faith in a different way. They made a tragic mistake.

BLITZER: The Turkish foreign minister, I don't know if you heard this -

MUDD: Yes.

BLITZER: But pretty alarming. He says, the man who actually helped these three young British schoolgirls get across from Turkey into Syria was a Syrian - is a Syrian national. They know who he is. But they also say - this is the Turkish foreign minister, saying he was working for an intelligence agency within the coalition, the U.S.-led coalition. Didn't say which intelligence agency, which country. But if that's true, that's pretty alarming, someone who's working for a member of the U.S. coalition and intelligence agency is actually helping these girls sneak into Syria.

MUDD: That's right. I mean you look at this as an intelligence professional, t looks sort of mundane from the outside, a low level operative helping someone get into Syria. In my world, this is where you make your money. And that is, somebody like this has contacts in both directions, into Europe to bring somebody in, into Syria and Iraq to get them across the border. He is not important for who he is in himself as it were. He's important because he might be able to lead you to a web of people who help - we call these people facilitators - who help facilitate the travel of Europeans into the war zone. A critically important catch right here.

BLITZER: These three young girls, are we ever going to see them again or are they, for all practical purposes, gone?

MUDD: Boy, I want to say yes. My guess would be no. I think the British took the right step over the past week. They have announced that if the girls come home, there will be no charges. I think we ought to do the same kinds of thing in the United States. If they're not involved in activity like beheadings, telling the families, if you can get your girls back home, they're welcome. I don't think that will happen. But if the girls get a chance, I would bet in a month or two or three, they're sitting back unfortunately saying, I made a mistake. This is not what I was promised on social media.

BLITZER: Yes, they're promised a lot on social media. The young men who go over there are promised a lot, including young girls, one of the reasons they presumably want to head over to there to Syria to join up with ISIS and it just turns out to be awful for everyone concerned.

MUDD: That's right.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Philip Mudd, helping us appreciate what's going on.

MUDD: Thank you.

BLITZER: Meanwhile, Iraqi troops are gaining ground in their fight against ISIS. Ben Wedeman is on the front lines of the battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi police, soldiers and paramilitaries flashed the sign, but there is no fanfare for the victors in the newly conquered town of Adur (ph), outside Tikrit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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