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Indiana Governor Vows to Fix Religious Freedom Law; Religious Freedom Law Is Trouble for Republicans; New Video on Germanwings Flight Last Moments; Interview with Harry Reid. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired March 31, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And even though Republicans have control over the chamber, I think it's safe to say the Democrats have more control over the message with the overwhelming support coming in from around the country.

[13:30:02] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Sure. You're definitely hearing that. But also let's talk about some of the rift between the governor and some Republicans as well. He hasn't had complete solidarity among members of his own party on this issue.

FLORES: You're absolutely right. And this is one of the things that I find fascinating because during the press conference yesterday that Republican leadership held, they made it very clear but were a little vague by saying that they had to have a press conference yesterday to do clean-up based on the interview that the governor had given to ABC. So in essence they were playing a dance there. Not quite saying out loud that the governor had bombed the interview with ABC. But coming forward and saying we had to come forward and have this press conference to make sure that the United States knows that discrimination is not OK here in Indiana. And you probably remember the question that ABC was grilling this governor on and that he wouldn't provide an answer. So it's fascinating that a day after the Republican leadership had this press conference, then the governor decides to come before reporters again.

KEILAR: Yeah, I could have handled that better is what governor Pence said. And I think a lot of Republicans agree with him.

Rosa Flores, thanks so much. Appreciate your report from Indianapolis.

You heard Rosa there talking about the backlash. Well, there's been a lot of it from the critical money-making sector for Indiana. That's the sports world. First, the teams playing in the Final Four in Indianapolis this weekend, here's some of what they're saying. You have this from Duke. It says, quote, "Duke University continues to stand alongside the LGBT community in seeking a more equal and inclusive world and we deplore any effort to legislate bias and discrimination." Then from Michigan State, quote, "We hope the citizens and lawmakers of that state can reach a consensus on how to best welcome all people regardless of background." And then check this out, this from NASCAR where there's a key race in Indiana, in Indianapolis, quote, "NASCAR is disappointed by the recent legislation passed in Indiana. We will not embrace nor participate in exclusion or intolerance."

You've also got Indiana's religious freedom law that's putting 2016 GOP contenders really on the spot. Many are backing the governor. And the controversial law that some say makes discrimination legal, is that going to hurt their quest to win the White House? We'll have Gloria Borger on to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:10] KEILAR: The controversy stirred up by Indiana Governor Mike Pence and the signing of his state's religious freedom bill isn't just confined to Indiana. It now could present a larger political problem for the GOP presidential field.

Let's bring in CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; and CNN's senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zelany, to talk about this.

Gloria, Pence says he's going to fix it. On Sunday, he was trying to say it was mischaracterized, nothing to see here. But he's still saying --

(LAUGHTER)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Fix it, don't mix it?

KEILAR: Now he's saying, fix it but it's still mischaracterized.

BORGER: He spent most of his, what was it, 45-minute-long press conference --

KEILAR: Long press conference.

BORGER: -- talking about the fact that this law had been smeared, that there was a perception problem, that there was preconceived notions about what it actually did. And he said, we're going to come up with some kind of fix. He didn't specify what the fix was. And he was clearly a governor tap dancing because his state is set to lose millions and millions of dollars in revenue. The NCAA is complaining. NASCAR is complaining, as you pointed out. And he's trying to balance that with his conservative brand. He's a potential presidential candidate,

KEILAR: GOP contender.

BORGER: So what you saw was a kind of modified surrender, which makes nobody happy.

(CROSSTALK)

JEFF ZELANY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: One thing he didn't fix was his business relationship. He's opened up a huge fight between social conservatives and the Chamber of Commerce, Main Street people. He didn't fix that at all. All these businesses will have the same issue with this law. Their customers have the same issues. That's his real problem here.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You mean, they have a concern that they feel like going into an environment, that's not the business environment they want to --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: No, and it's immediate and probably in the age of social media in which things happen a lot faster. But his notion that this is a law that's been passed in 19 other states, the same as the federal law. The White House press secretary just came out this afternoon and said, no, no, no, it's not. This law is much more open- ended, treats businesses like religious institutions. So there is a difference here. Democrats in the state are saying, you know what, you've got to just protect gay rights in the state of Indiana. That's the only way to do it.

KEILAR: Let's talk about 2016. You have a number of -- I think we have photos of some of the GOP presidential hopefuls who have voiced their support for this law in Indiana. Jeb Bush, very serious contender. Bobby Jindal, Rick Santorum, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, all various sort of levels of serious contention, I guess you could say. What does this say about how an issue like this plays for 2016 and just for the party in general?

ZELANY: I think it's clear that for all of those people, including a few others, they have to win the primary first.

KEILAR: Yeah.

ZELANY: And they have to appeal to social security conservatives. And going against this would be the wrong thing to do politically for them. We haven't heard a lot from Rand Paul on this. He's tried to have it both ways on this issue.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELANY: The reality is if you're going to play in the Iowa caucuses, the South Carolina primary, you don't want to be on the wrong side of this. But if you break down their positions, they're a bit more nuanced. Jeb Bush said, I supported Florida's law. But Florida is different. It actually protects homosexuals and gays and lesbians.

BORGER: Scott Walker --

(CROSSTALK)

ZELANY: Right.

[13:39:41] How do they switch if they're sort of for it in the primary round, then how do you just --

(CROSSTALK) ZELANY: -- for discrimination.

KEILAR: Right.

BORGER: Sure.

ZELANY: Each one of them -- like Marco Rubio said yesterday, he said I support the religious liberty but --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: But how do you appeal more to, say, young Republicans who don't have any

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: -- who don't have any --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Wasn't it Jeb Bush who said, you don't want to win the primary all the time to win the general. Truth is --

ZELANY: Except you do.

BORGER: -- you do.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: You have to win the primary. I think there is enough nuance in their positions, some of them, that they can kind of walk it back a little bit because these state laws are different. It's very complicated. Some states protect on discrimination more than others. Indiana protects less. Maybe that's what they're going to try and fix. That's certainly what the Democrats in the state want to happen. But this has yet to play out in the Republican Party.

KEILAR: All right. Gloria, Jeff, thanks so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: Breaking news here in to CNN. There is video of the final moments of the Germanwings 9525 flight from inside of the plane. We do not have the video. The video is not public, but two publications jointly, "Paris Match" and "Bild" have described -- they've seen the video and are describing what's in the video. And this is what is just in to CNN. They published descriptions in multiple languages that show -- and this is a recording found by a source close to the investigation.

This is the description of what happened inside of the plane in the final moments of Germanwings 9525. It says, quote, "The scene was so chaotic that it was hard to identify people. But the sounds of the screaming passengers made it perfectly clear that they were aware of what was about to happen to them." One can hear cries of "my god" in several languages. Metallic banging can be heard more than three times, perhaps the pilot trying to open the cockpit door with a heavy object. Towards the end, after a heavy shake, stronger than the others, the screaming intensifies, then nothing.

I want to bring in Les Abend, CNN's aviation analyst, in New York; and also Fred Pleitgen, who is in Cologne, Germany, where we've heard from officials there throughout the course of this investigation.

First off, Fred, important to note, this is jointly published information by "Bild," which is the publication that put out that cockpit voice recorder transcript as well. Very unusual for this information to come out. And also just -- I mean, it's heart- wrenching, the idea of this moment of terror.

[11:45:48] FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely, Brianna it's a joint publication between the "Bild" and "Paris Match." They say this video was taken from a similar card taken from the crash site that seemed to have survived the crash. They say the video comes from the circles of the investigators. They don't specify exactly where they got this video from but they do say while it's very shaky and while it's hard to make out more than just a couple of people on the video, they do very much believe in its authenticity. They've verified the video. There's no way for us to independently confirm that.

But in addition to what you were saying, there's also some more facts that we're getting from that article, from the "Bild" newspaper that was just published a couple of minutes ago. They say this video was taken from the very back of the plane. Someone seemed to have been filming in the very back of the plane. They say it's unclear whether it was taken by a member of the crew or whether it was taken by one of the passengers, also unclear whether the person who was filming the video was standing or sitting.

And as you said, it's those very dramatic final moments. They say this video is only a few seconds long but does show the final moments of what happened on that flight. As you said, there's that metallic banging on the door, which, of course, seems to support exactly the transcript that was leaked as well and what the French investigators have been saying, that, first of all, it appears as though the pilot was banging on the door, and then later there was banging on the cockpit door with some sort of metallic object.

Now, one of the things that they say in this article, it seems as though the passengers on board that flight seem to be aware of the predicament that they're in. Presumably, they're screaming on the plane, as you said, people saying "oh, my god" in several languages. Then say they towards the very end of the video the plane is jolted to the side. Now, remember, one of the things that we heard from that transcript that was leaked that apparently shortly before the plane crashed, the right wing of --

(AUDIO PROBLEM) KEILAR: All right. I think unfortunately we are losing Fred's signal there in Cologne.

But I want to bring Les in on this.

Les, we've talked about this before. "Bild" putting out the cockpit voice recorder transcripts. I have a sense of where you fall on the utility of doing something like this, the idea of these moments of terror revealed not just for the public but for the families of these victims. It's horrifying.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: You've stated it very well, Brianna. I think, number one, the cockpit voice recorder transcripts being released was just irresponsible. Where that leak came from, I can only suspect. This is the same thing. It just adds more sensationalism to the whole thing. This is evidence in the investigation. The accident investigators are out there, the parties are there participating. This should never be made public at this point in the field investigation. It's just absolutely wrong. The families especially don't need these details.

KEILAR: Can I ask you, though -- because I would have thought exactly what you were saying, that this is horrific for the families and for them to know. But yesterday, we were talking with a clinical psychologist about how these families can cope with some of these horrific details. She actually said that even though it's horrible to hear. And we heard from a woman whose brother died on Germanwings 9525, she said the idea that he knew for several minutes that something was horribly wrong was terrible for her. But the psychologist said sometimes actually knowing, even if it's terrible details, is better than not knowing because you fill it in with the absolute worst, and just having the knowledge of exactly what happened ultimately, maybe not right now, but ultimately may be better than not knowing. What do you think about that?

[11:49:46] ABEND: Brianna, having been trained in critical incident stress management, which deals with a lot of posttraumatic stress disorder -- I dealt with one of our major accidents at my airline with folks who were involved with the investigation, so I have an understanding of the thought process. But here's the thing. Let's do it on a private basis. Let's not make let's not make the debriefing and grieving process public. Let's let each individual deal with it on their own. Give them the choice of listening to the transcript or listening to this video, if they choose, and this helps them in the process, absolutely. But this is not for public consumption at this point.

KEILAR: And don't force it on them.

ABEND: Exactly.

KEILAR: I want to bring Fred back into the conversation. He's in Cologne. We have a signal back up.

I want to clarify, Fred, that this is -- we're not showing it. We don't have it. This is video from inside of the plane. At the crash site, there was a SIM card that survived the crash, was recovered, and on it is, this 14 seconds of really the last moments of Germanwings 9525. What are you hearing from officials, or are we hearing anything yet about their concerns that this is being put out there and what this means for the investigation?

PLEITGEN: Hi, Brianna. We're not hearing anything at this point in time just yet. This video was only posted, I would say, about 20 minutes ago. But needless to say, there's, I think, going to be a strong reaction to all of this. There was already a lot of criticism when the transcript of the cockpit voice recording, or at least parts of it, were made public as well. There were a lot of people who were saying there was nothing new in all of that, that the French authorities, of course, called it, at that point, pure voyeurism. They said they were quite dismayed at the fact the cockpit voice recording was put out. This will probably lead to very similar reactions as well.

The big question, of course, is who is leaking all of this. It must come from somewhere within the investigating team. There is no one else who has access to the crash site at this point in time.

Again, it also is quite remarkable that the SIM cards would have actually survived and, therefore, it seems as though, perhaps aside from the flight data recorder that's still being looked at, there might also be other documents still out there that investigators are looking at -- Brianna?

KEILAR: And again, these are -- this is video from inside of the plane in the final moments of Germanwings 9525 that are being described but are not, certainly not at least yet, out there publicly.

All right. Fred Pleitgen, Les Abend, thanks so much to both of you.

We'll have more coverage of the crash, the Germanwings 9525 crash, ahead.

But next, we're going to talk about a familiar face around Washington, Harry Reid. He's leaving the Senate. He's leaving on his terms. No regrets. Certainly, no apologies. We'll have CNN's exclusive interview next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:56:19] KEILAR: Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid surprised some last week when he said he would not seek another term. In his first television interview since the announcement, Reid tells CNN exclusively how he made the decision and why he's closing this chapter in his political life.

Here's CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Harry Reid is such a fighter. The former boxer says he actually wanted to call it quits before his last election but didn't want to give in to his opponents.

SEN. HARRY REID, (D-NV), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: One newspaper here in Nevada kept beating up on me, and I said, I'm not going to let the bastards beat me. So I decided to run last time.

BASH: Now he's 75 and says it's time to leave before he gets too old.

REID: I wanted to be remembered for my first 34 years, not my last six. And I have done my best.

BASH: On New Year's Day, Reid, a workout addict, who ran 20 marathons, had a brutal exercise accident that left him severely bruised and, for now, blind in one eye.

(on camera): It had to have cemented the decision.

REID: Well, I'm not sure it cemented the decision. The first three weeks, I couldn't do anything except feel sorry for myself. But I'm sure it had some bearing on my not running, but it wasn't the decision maker.

BASH (voice-over): Reid has led Senate Democrats for nearly ten years, spearheading epic legislative battles like Obamacare with a scrappy style he learned fighting his way out of an impoverished childhood growing up in this shack with no running water, which he showed us several years ago.

(on camera): A wide variety of adjectives have been written about you.

REID: Some good, some bad.

BASH: Some good, some bad. Let me read a few. Scrappy, tough, blunt, canny behind the scenes mastermind, ruthless. Are all those fair?

REID: Well, that's what people think. If that's what they think, they're entitled to their opinion.

BASH: How would you describe yourself?

REID: I work very hard. I always have.

BASH (voice-over): Reid has been a most unlikely political leader in today's media age, soft spoken and gaffe prone.

REID: I recognized a long time ago there's people who speak a lot better than I can. There are people better looking than I am. There are people smarter than I am, but there's nobody that can work harder than I work. I'm very concerned about Nevada, always have been. I'm concerned about the country. And my style may not be someone else's style, but that's who I am.

BASH: One thing he's not concerned about, what people think of him.

REID: I don't really care. I don't want to be somebody I'm not. BASH (on camera): You're a polarizing figure, and a lot of

Republicans actually blame you personally for the way Congress and Washington in general has gotten so highly partisan in the last couple of years.

REID: That's interesting. I served as a whip for a long time. The Republicans were infusive in their praise for me.

BASH (voice-over): That was before he used the Senate floor to go after GOP mega donors, the Koch brothers, and accused Mitt Romney of not paying his taxes with no evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Let him prove he has paid taxes, because he hasn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: I don't regret that at all. The Koch brothers, no one would help me. They were afraid the Koch brothers would go after them. So I did it on my own.

BASH: So no regrets about Mitt Romney, about the Koch brothers. Some people have called it McCarthyite.

REID: They can call it whatever they want. Romney didn't win, did he?

BASH (voice-over): Reid is most proud of using his Senate power to help Nevada, bringing home the bacon, from renewable energy to revitalizing Las Vegas, like this neighborhood where we spoke.

REID: They would come out every year with the biggest porkers. I was so upset when I wasn't in the top two or three.

(LAUGHTER)

So, no, I'm proud of what I did with earmarks. If you work hard for these jobs -- and we all do -- and you have some power, you should use it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:00:10] KEILAR: Harry Reid very candid there with CNN's Dana Bash.

And that's it for me. "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.