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Iraqi Forces Declare Victory in Tikrit; ISIS Leaves Behind Booby Traps, Explosives; Can Iraqi Forces Build on Tikrit Victory; Iranian-Backed Militiamen Are Shiite Muslims; Sectarian Resentment Helped ISIS Rise in First Place; Prospects of Deal with Iran; New Video Shows Plane Crash Wreckage Up Close; Flight 9525 Video; Wreckage Up Close. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 01, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 7:00 p.m. in Dusseldorf and 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks so much for joining us.

The fight to retake Tikrit from ISIS appears to finally be over as Iraqi forces take control of the city today clearing out the last pockets of resistance. Tikrit is best known as Saddam Hussein's hometown. It's located north of Baghdad. And ISIS overran the city in a key victory for the group early last June. Then nearly a month ago, Iraqi forces launched their latest offensive.

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CROWD: (INAUDIBLE.)

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KEILAR: Celebration today. Today's declaration of victory comes nearly a week after U.S.-led air strikes targeted ISIS bases around the city. And that allowed the Iraqi army, with the help from a coalition of Shiite militiamen and volunteers backed by Iran, to liberate the city.

As the only American network on the scene, CNN is there. Arwa Damon visited Tikrit earlier today where the danger still remains and she filed this extraordinary report.

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ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're in Tikrit city center. This is the main road that leads through it. The tank behind me right there is one of those belonging to the Hashla (ph) popular movement units. You also have Iraqi police. That building, we were told, had a sniper and a suicide bomber in it.

And over here, you see what was Tikrit governorate. Now, we were told that this is an example of one of the many buildings that ISIS fighters had booby-trapped. Inside here, one of their majors was telling that as one of their officers stepped on the stairs, they detonated. The stairs themselves had been in lain with explosives. Two officers were killed in here, three were wounded.

Further down, you can see smoke continuously rising. And this is a scene you see throughout the entire city. That is because, according to what we are being told, there are so many IEDs, so many booby- trapped homes that, in some cases, they cannot be defused. Forces are being obliged to detonate them in place. There are some homes that are actually on fire in the distance.

Now, moving throughout the city, the devastation, the destruction is pretty widespread. We also were earlier inside the presidential complex. There, what were Saddam Hussein's palaces, many of them bearing the scars of what seems to have been the aftermath of massive explosions, bombing by both coalition and the Iraqi air force.

Now, we are still hearing sporadic bursts of gunfire, explosions in the distance. We're being told that there are small pockets where ISIS fighters are still holding out. Not very large in number, though, at this stage. And the Iraqi security forces most certainly confident that they will eventually be able to secure the entire city.

As you were saying there earlier, the prime minister already declaring victory. But given the widespread devastation, given the cost that just this city alone has already paid in the fight against ISIS, well, this is pretty much what victory, at this stage, looks like.

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KEILAR: Arwa just made her way back from Tikrit to Baghdad where she's joining us now. And also with us, we have CNN Global Affairs Analyst Bobby Ghosh, he is the managing editor of "Quartz."

So, Arwa, this is a -- this was a very dangerous assignment for you. In some of your other reports, you could hear gunshots. There are booby-trapped buildings around where we saw you standing there. Your producer, Hamdi Alkhshali, and your photographer, Bryce Laine, there with you embedding with the Iraqi military, going into this city where there are still these pockets of ISIS fighters that are active. How big of a danger do the fighters pose, at this point, to the Iraqi forces and the Shiite militias who have taken Tikrit back?

DAMON (live): Well, the Iraqi forces and the Shia militia are very confident in their own capabilities. In fact, at one stage, we actually came across a group of those PMEs, the Shia militias, who were holding and dancing with a severed head, they claimed was that of an ISIS fighter. We saw the decapitated corpse on the sidewalk. They feel, at this stage, as if they do have the situation under control. Then, again, under control in Iraq can mean very different things.

They do they have ISIS on its way out. They're saying that those last few pockets of resistance will be eradicated by the end of day today, at the latest, early tomorrow. They do feel that the bigger task ahead of them is going to be clearing the entire city of all of these bombs. [13:05:01] But this is as much a military effort as it is going to be, moving forward, a political one. They need to convince the Sunni population to return, that they're not going to be targeted in any sort of retaliatory strike, attack by these predominantly Shia forces that have moved through. It's a very sensitive situation at this stage, Brianna.

And then, of course, Tikrit is just the beginning. And the dynamics in Tikrit are very different than the bigger battle, arguably, that Iraq is going to be facing in Al Anbar province to the west, for example, not to mention trying to retake the country's second largest city of Mosul.

KEILAR: OK. And, Bobby, you -- I'm -- this description that Arwa is giving us of seeing some of these Iraqi forces with a severed head, there are concerns, at this point, because you have Tikrit which is largely a Sunni Muslim area. There was sectarian resentment that really allowed ISIS to exploit the situation there and move in.

Now, you have these liberators, many of them Shiite militiamen backed by Iran. They are afraid, as she said, of reprisals. What do we think the expectation is? Do these militiamen, do these Iraqi forces come in and everything is good or is there a real, very real, concern about reprisals from them with the Sunni population?

BOBBY GOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, the concern is certainly there. There's no getting away from it. There have been examples in some other parts of Iraq where Shiite militias in the -- in the guise of being liberators have conducted brutal atrocities against Sunni populations.

The big question, it's clear now, from Tikrit, that the Iraqi military cannot defeat ISIS without the help of these militias. Also with the help of American airpower, Iranian assistance on the ground. But these Shiite militias are going to be a crucial part of the military campaign.

The question is, can they now and should they now be asked to withdraw from the city and leave the job of, you know, bringing the population back in, resettling them, should that be the job for the military? And is there a distinction to be drawn between the militias and the military? And I'd be curious to hear from Arwa about, you know, the commanders, the military commanders that she encountered. Are they talking about what role the militias will play now that ISIS has been driven out of Tikrit? Do the militias still have a role to play in that city or do they now withdraw?

KEILAR: What are you hearing, Arwa?

DAMON: Well, that is a topic that is actually brought up quite often. And this is what we're being told by some of the senior federal police commanders. Their plan for Tikrit is to invite the local police back -- force back. This is, yes, the police force that ran away when ISIS first advanced. But they do plan on inviting them back as soon as possible. And then leaving behind a residual force that is going to help back them up. They are very worried about these militias. Some of them describe the

militias as, especially when compared to the Iraqi security forces, as being out of control, that no one has real authority over them. But they're in a very difficult position because they do need these militias.

One of the commanders was saying that, you know, the finances that these militias have and some of the capabilities that they have surpass those of the Iraqi security forces themselves. So, they do need them. They can't afford to alienate them. They can't afford to aggravate them because their potential for being part of the problem moving forward is very real.

Making them part of a sustainable solution, that is going to be the big challenge. But bottom line is, yes, they do, by and large, want to see the actual securing stability of Tikrit, the responsibility for that, within the security forces that are part of the official government apparatus and not part of this group of various different militias.

KEILAR: So, Iraqi forces in this tricky position of trying to manage these Iran-backed militias. Very difficult, perhaps impossible in some cases.

Arwa, thank you so much for your great report. Bobby, thank you so much for your great insight.

Coming up, we have brand-new up-close video. It shows the wreckage of Germanwings Flight 9525. We'll be examining the images for clues about the last moments of the flight.

Also ahead, the original deadline for an Iran nuclear deal has passed. But, for now at least, the sides are still at the table talking. We'll take you live to Switzerland for a play-by-play report.

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[13:12:48] KEILAR: We are getting new, up-close images showing the wreckage from the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525. And until now, most of the images that we've been looking at have been from the air. These are ground-level pictures. They give us a very different view of this tragedy that killed 150 people.

We can see here crews removing large pieces of the fuselage. There's a new road providing easier access to the crash site. It's helping in the recovery effort.

And then, in other developments, two publications are standing by reports that a cell phone video was recovered from the crash site. They say that it shows the horrific final seconds inside of the plane. Well, French officials say they are unaware of any such video.

And then, officials from the airline's parent company, Lufthansa, visited the memorial site today. The CEO expressing deep sorrow over the crash. He had no response to questions about co-pilot Andreas Lubitz. Lufthansa now admits that Lubitz told the airline he had suffered from severe depression in the past.

I want to get the latest now on this crash investigation, also these new images from the crash site. Let's bring in Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen. He's on the phone for us from Dusseldorf, Germany. So, Fred, you have this new video and it's a much better look. It gives us a much better idea of what the crews are dealing with as they search through the rubble here. Tell us about what we see and also give us an update on the recovery.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. And you can see how difficult it is for those crew and how important it is that this access road has now been built. You know, you can see how steep that mountainside is, how much rubble there actually is on that mountain. But also, quite frankly, how badly damaged that plane was when it hit the mountain. Remember that right after the plane crash, local people there said the plane has been literally been obliterated when it hit the mountainside. That certainly is something that seems to hold true. And it has been very difficult for those crews to work there.

But we can see that they now have better access to that site and they do seem to be sifting through there and, as you said, removing larger portions, at least as large as they get, of the fuselage that are still there.

[13:15:00] Now, the interesting thing about the recovery effort as it goes on is that French investigators have said that, at least today, no more human remains have been recovered from that site. However, they do say that the crews are still working, are still looking to see whether or not there would be anything else still there. Remember that - when they do find human remains, they mark that with those red flags to show that they found something there.

So the recovery effort still very much going on. The French president, of course, saying that he believes that all of the victims will have been identified by the end of that week, which is must faster than we've been thinking in the past. Of course, there still will be DNA testing going on as to any human remains they find. And apparently also starting today, some of the personal things from the passengers will be taken away from that site as well. Very importantly, of course, one of the things that they'd be looking for is also the remains of cell phones, possible SIM cards, anything that could give them any more clues as to what happened, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And let's talk about this report, a joint report by two publications, "Bild" and "Paris Match," that said there is this alleged cell phone video. It came from a SIM card from inside of the plane. It shows the final seconds before the crash. Now French investigators are saying they're not aware of any video. You've got a police spokesman who says that these reports are, quote, "completely wrong." What are these publications saying in response to this?

PLEITGEN: Well, they are standing by their story. And what they're saying is that they don't actually have - physically have this video. However, that they were able to look at it. And they're standing by their reporting. They say that they've viewed the video. They say all this comes from an investigative French journalist, Frederik Eliber (ph), who works for "Paris Match" and who also is in cooperation with the "Bild" newspaper of Germany as well.

And, of course, they've detailed what exactly is on that video. They say that it shows the final about 14 seconds of that flight. That it shows the passengers screaming. It seems to show someone banging on the cockpit door with a metallic object, which very well could be the captain, Patrick Sondenheimer, trying to get access to the cockpit again. And then, in the end, shows the cabin of the plane being jolted. And we can remember that the investigators were saying that the plane apparently scraped a mountaintop before then crashing into the side of the mountain. So they do give a lot of detail with all of this.

However, you're right, the French authorities have cast doubt on it. At first they were saying that these reports are untrue, unwarranted. They're taking sort of a different line now. Now what they're saying is that so far no cell phone video has been used in the investigation and the French prosecutor is also saying if anybody has any, they need to come forward with that video immediately. So certainly it is something that is causing a lot of - I wouldn't say uproar, but certainly is causing a lot of anger among the French investigators that something like this could be leaked because apparently even they, at this point, don't have tabs on whether or not they have any cell phone video, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, they - it's really baffling and it raises so many questions. All right, we'll continue to follow that with you. Fred Pleitgen, thank you.

Just ahead, we will be talking with our experts about new images of the plane crash wreckage. You see some of them here. And we'll be asking them about reports that that cell phone video came from inside of the plane in its final moments. We have that next.

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[13:21:45] KEILAR: Tire debris and huge pieces of the fuselage. We have new video that's giving us a closer look at the wreckage from Germanwings Flight 9525.

I want to bring in our panel to talk about these latest developments. We have David Soucie. He's a CNN safety analyst. He's a former FAA safety inspector. And then also joining us, we have clinical psychologist Ramani Durvasula and we have CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes. He's a former FBI assistant director.

David, let's start with these new images from the crash site. Give us a sense, as we see these just tiny pieces, some of them are large pieces of the fuselage, but so many are just small ones. Tell us about the difficulty of recovery on a scene like this.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It's incredibly difficult to be able to move, to inspect. You, of course, have to respect the dignity of any passenger remains that might still be there, so to be able to just go in there and haul things away. To add to the complexity, these things all had to be documented. You notice that they're moving them and taking them away from their resting place. How it rests is very important information to have. So that's all being documented so that we can rebuild the case of how the aircraft went in. Although we know the cause at this point, what made the aircraft go in, information about how that aircraft sustained and survived certain pieces will help engineers in the future to make better aircraft and improve this model as well.

KEILAR: OK, let's talk about this recording. The alleged recording, I should say, of the final 14 seconds on the plane. So what we've heard from "Bild" and "Paris Match," these are two publications, one German, one French. They're standing by their reports that there is a cell phone video recovered via a SIM card of a phone and it shows the final seconds inside the plane.

Let's talk about this with you, Tom, because you've got French investigators saying they're not aware of any video inside of the crash, no videos were used in the crash investigation, and if anyone has such a thing it should be turned over to the authorities. What does that tell you?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. It tells me that's a very sloppy investigation in terms of the discipline of the people at the crash site that are recovering evidence. That SIM card is not only evidence for the investigators, but it's also personal property of whoever owned that cell phone. There's liable to be family pictures and other information on that SIM card, contact list, phone numbers, addresses, that are private property.

KEILAR: So it - could it be - it could be real, right?

FUENTES: It could be real, oh, yes.

KEILAR: So these are the options, it could be fake, it could be real. And if it's real, are you under the impression that it's maybe a rescue worker who sold it to a paper basically?

FUENTES: Well, I don't know who else is at that crash site -

KEILAR: Yes.

FUENTES: Recovering pieces of the airplane, pieces of property.

KEILAR: This was before the road was built even, yes.

FUENTES: Oh, yes. This has been for a day or two now. So I think that the idea that someone at that crash site would take evidence and personal property and use it for personal gain or personal notoriety later and turn it over to the media is just incredible to me.

KEILAR: Ramani, you are certainly in tune with what some of the loved ones of the victims may be going through here. When there are these reports of these final moments that even though it hasn't been published or it's not released, this video, the idea - the description of the video, what does - what does this mean for these loved ones who are trying to cope? [13:25:10] RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I mean the loved

ones are trying to hold onto any information they can get. And the idea that there could be something remaining that would capture the last experiences of someone they care about - I can imagine all these families must be wondering, is this a member of our family? And this is - it's a double-edged sword. It would be so traumatic to have this, but I think it would also be maybe some step towards closure.

These families are going through a trauma that's literally playing out hour by hour for them as they try to figure out exactly what went wrong. And now, obviously, how do they make a life from here on in now that this has happened? So I imagine these families really want this information. They want to know anything they can know.

KEILAR: Really? So - and that's kind of counterintuitive because the instinct of so many people is to shield them from these kinds of things that essentially they will be terrorized by them. But you're saying that in some way it might actually give closure?

DURVASULA: I think it might. I think we can't assume that one size fits all when you're dealing with grieving and trauma. I agree, I think there's some families out there who would not want to know what this is about, but I think we need to give them that choice. We cannot sit here and say, we know what's better for each of these individuals who are going through this very complicated, very public process of mourning. Everyone's different. And I think more than anything this is something that must be given to whatever family this belongs to so they can decide what to do with it.

KEILAR: No, very, very well put. Ramani Durvasula, thank you so much. David, appreciate you being with us. Tom, thanks for being with us as well.

Coming up, they were supposed to be the lucky ones. Sixteen students, picked by lottery, for an exchange program. They're being remembered today at a memorial for the victims of Flight 9525. Their hometown paying a tribute. We'll be taking you there live next.

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