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Oliver Grills Snowden; Preliminary Nuclear Deal; Final Deal End Of June; Tougher Road Ahead; Once In A Lifetime Opportunity; Netanyahu On State Of The Union; Conflict Tearing Yemen Apart; Rare Look At Yemen's Destruction; Yemen Destruction; Afghans Training for ISIS. Aired 1:00-1:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Nairobi, 9:30 p.m. in Cabo. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, the preliminary nuclear deal with Iran. President Obama calling it a once in a lifetime opportunity to keep nuclear weapons out of Tehran's reach. His comments come days after the U.S. and other world powers reached a tentative agreement with Iran. The final deal will be hammered out supposedly by the end of June.

While the negotiations were tough, the road ahead may even be tougher. The president faces very skeptical lawmakers up on Capitol Hill as well as vocal critics abroad.

On Sunday, President Obama strongly defended the deal speaking to "The New York Times" columnist, Thomas Freidman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I would say to the Israeli people is, however, that there is no formula, there is no option to prevent Iran was getting a nuclear weapon that will be more effective than the diplomatic initiative and framework that we put forward. And that's demonstrable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is blasting the deal calling it historically bad. Here he is speaking on CNN's State of the Union yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: Well, I think the alternatives are not either this bad deal or war. I think there's a third alternative and that is standing firm and ratcheting up the pressure until you get a better deal. And a better deal would roll back Iran's vast nuclear structure and require Iran to stop its aggression in the region, its terror worldwide. And it's cause and actions to annihilate the state of Israel. That's a better deal. It's achievable. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As the White House launches an aggressive campaign to sell the framework deal, U.S. lawmakers are pressing for the right to reject any final agreement.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is joining us from the White House right now. What's the latest over there, Sunlen? What are you hearing?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the White House is trotting (ph) out their top scientists, the energy secretary who's a nuclear physicist and was at the negotiating table with Iran over this issue. The White House believes that there's a lot of convincing that these technical details of the deal can go with on Capitol Hill to try to convince them that this deal, potentially, takes away the option of Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon.

But we should say that on Capitol Hill, a lot of the critics are saying it's not just the technical details that really need to be defined but it's also the broader details. Put simply, a lot of people wanted to know, what's the timelines for the potential for sanctions to be lifted? The White House is saying one thing. Iran is saying another thing. The Iranians saying that these sanctions would be lifted immediately. U.S. saying sanctions would be phased out.

So, there's not much detail there on -- about distinctions. And the White House secretary, Josh Earnest, today, he admitted that the phase out of sanctions is still something that needs to be agreed to. A lot of details need to be worked out -- Wolf.

BLITZER: He seemed, in the interview with Tom Freidman in "The New York Times," to be a little bit more conciliatory towards the Israelis, towards the prime minister specifically. Obviously, they strongly disagree on this. But he suggested it pains him to hear him being called anti-Israel by some in Israel, anti-Israel by some in the American Jewish community, other supporters of Israel. What are they saying at the White House? Was this a more conciliatory tone coming from the president?

SERFATY: Well, it certainly seems to be an -- interesting that when the deal was announced on Thursday, President Obama wasted no time getting to the Rose Garden and really delivering a stern message. He has a stake in this. He wants this to ultimately succeed. And he had a stern message for Congress then saying that they would be the ones to blame if this deal ultimately is killed in the end.

But now, the president kind of realizing an openness, potentially, to have a deal that would potentially go through Congress. They would be allowed to really register their complaints about it. But it would not be a binding resolution and that's key.

And many on Capitol Hill will likely not go for this, Wolf. They want something that's binding. And that's what Congress, when they get back in one week, are going to move forward.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much. Sunlen Serfaty over at the White House.

The debate over Iran turning the spotlight on what some are now calling the Obama doctrine. The president himself helped define this telling the "The New York Times" that it could be described, and I'm quoting him now, "We will engage but we will -- but we preserve all of our capabilities.

Let's dig deeper on this, the nuclear deal, what's going on. Joining us, Ambassador Nicholas Burns. Retired former U.S. ambassador to NATO. He's now a professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. Nic, thanks very much for joining us.

What you make of the fact that there are some very different spins coming out from what U.S. officials are saying this deal includes as opposed to what Iranian officials. You hear one thing from secretary of state, John Kerry. You hear something else from the foreign minister of Iran, Javad Zarif. How worried are you that very different interpretations about this deal are coming forward?

[13:05:18] NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, Wolf, I think it's to be expected, in a way, because both of these countries, the United States and Iran, are going to have a difficult time getting an agreement in their own capitals for a final deal. And so, you've seen, for instance, Secretary Kerry and the United States put out a lot more detail on this agreement because they have Congress that they need to convince.

As you say, as soon as a week from today, when Congress comes back, the Iranians have another problem. They have, in essence, a dual or divided government. There's the reform venire (ph), President Rouhani, and foreign minister, Zarif, but there's the hard core, the supreme leader, Ali Haman Saleh (ph), and the Republican Guard. And so, it's understandable and not surprising that you see this various spin. The difference is in the spin between the two capitol.

But I think, Wolf, it does point to something else. There's going to be a long, difficult road to get to a final deal on June 30th if, in fact, there are substantial disagreements on sanctions, how they'll be phased out and also on verification.

BLITZER: Well, on sanctions, for example, as you know, the Iranians are saying they will be eased -- they will be lifted, suspended completely right away as soon as this deal goes into effect. The administration is saying, not so fast. They're going to be phased out over a period of time. It's still to be determined how long. That's a significant difference right there.

BURNS: It is because you're talking about the leverage that the United States and the west have been able to use at the negotiating table. The leverage we have is that the Iranian economy is doing poorly, in part, because of the sanctions. The sanctions, of course, have been voted in all different venues. There are the U.N. Security Council sanctions, the sanctions taken by the European Union and the United States more unilaterally.

And so, some of the sanctions will clearly be lifted early. I think both sides agree the United Nations Security Council, Chapter 7 sanctions. But some of the other sanctions, ones put on place by the U.S., for instance, will be -- will be released, Wolf, only when the Iranians comply. And, frankly I think that's a bar that President Obama needs to meet to convince the Congress that we have to continue to have some intimidation and leverage on the Iranians in the first year or two of this agreement to ensure that Iran complies.

BLITZER: With the easing of the suspension, the removal of those sanctions that could bring in, it's been estimated, about $150 billion, billion dollars, to the Iranian economy relatively quickly. And the argument is that's an enormous pressure point that the U.S. and the Europeans, the other countries, had and they missed an opportunity to demand that Iran also take other steps, stop funding terrorists organizations, groups the U.S. considers to be terrorists organizations, stop calling for Israel's destruction, free American prisoners, including an American journalist who's being held in Tehran. Was that a blunder? Was that a mistake not to put other issues on the table right now in exchange for $150 billion in money that's going to flow into the Iranian economy?

BURNS: Well, first, Wolf, to answer your question, I think that where the leverage is, the United States has to be tough minded and Europe, too, in these last three months of the negotiation on that sanctions issue in order to retain leverage. I don't think, however, it was a mistake for Europe and the United States not to put all these other issues on the table. I think it would have been very complicated.

And you know, Wolf, you've got to try to reach an agreement that's practical and possible. The Iranians are not going to capitulate. They're not going to change their entire foreign policy, however much we would disagree with it, and we do, just because we say so.

And here, I think, we're looking at the weakness in Prime Minister Netanyahu's argument. And the weakness of some of the arguments on Capitol Hill. You have to judge President Obama's negotiation against the alternative. And if we effectively walked away from the table, and that's what Prime Minister Netanyahu is asserting we should do, we'd lose the influence of the international community. You wouldn't have the unity of the P five countries and the sanctions would dissolve. And so, I think the U.S. would have been the loser had it taken the maximal approach that you describe that President Netanyahu has talked about on your program.

BLITZER: All right, Nicholas Burns, the former U.S. Ambassador to NATO, now at Harvard. Thanks very much for joining us.

BURNS: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: They lived there for decades but had only hours to leave with a few belongings. In an exclusive report, CNN takes you on a rescue flight to Yemen.

And it may be her second attempt but don't expect a rerun of her last campaign. First here on CNN, we have a sneak peek into Hillary Clinton 2016. We're getting ready. Her announcement, formal announcement, could come very soon, within a matter of days. [13:09:58]

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BLITZER: We're getting a rare look inside the conflict that is tearing Yemen apart. Powerful new pictures from our CNN crew arriving inside the country, showing bombed out buildings at the main airport. They also saw people rushing to get on planes so they could leave the country. These evacuees bringing only what they could carry. Hundreds have died in the last few days alone. Iranian backed Houthi rebels have been fighting government forces for control of key cities. And a Saudi-led coalition has been bombing Houthi positions. The Red Cross has been calling for a cease-fire so the wounded can get much medical -- much needed medical help.

Let's talk about what's going on in Yemen right now. Joining us, our own Nima Elbagir. She's just got back from Yemen. She's now in nearby Djibouti (ph). Also joining us here in the United States, our CNN Military Analyst retired Lt. Col. Rick Francona.

Nima, tell us, how did you get inside? What did you see? It must have been terrifying to see what was going on when you flew into Yemen.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we came in in this window that the Saudi air force had provided the Indian government and other governments trying to evacuate their people. And, really, anyone who can get to these ports and airports. We came in in that. So, it was extraordinarily eerie to fly in to see all that devastation. But not (ph) to hear what had so clearly caused it and also not to see anyone in the streets. There were no cars. There were no people. People still trying very much to take safety and stay indoors. And then, there was just this awful tickdown, countdown as the crew tried to get to people who were hoping to fly to safety just beyond the Houthi immigration points onto the plane. It was such a tight turn around.

But, finally, they did. And you saw those faces. You saw the relief on those faces. Some of them actually managed to fall asleep even before the plane had taken off. They told us every single night, they sit in the dark hearing the horrible sounds of the bombardment.

[13:15:09] And this was the first time they've really been able to close their eyes since all of this began. But, of course, these, Wolf, were the lucky ones. These were the hundreds that had managed to come out. But inside Yemen there are still tens of thousands more that aid organizations say are outside the reach of those who can help them.

Wolf.

BLITZER: So basically what I'm hearing, Nima, and you were there just for a few hours, but you spoke with people who got on that plane, is it complete chaos there in Yemen right now? We know the United States, the British, everybody has basically evacuated their embassies. They've escaped the chaos. Is it - is it like awful? Tell us the sense of how bad it is. ELBAGIR: Well, those we spoke to said that in the Houthi held areas,

90 percent of those areas have no electricity. So every night you sit in complete, pitch black listening to those Saudi aerial bombardment raids. And it - you don't really get a sense, speaking to people, that those raids are being that effective, Wolf, because Aiden (ph), which is being - Aiden in the south, which is being so hardly fought over, that still is not decisively in the government loyalists hands. In fact, the port has changed hands so many times.

And in addition to that, you can't get access to fuel, you can't get out to buy any food, even if there was any food in those shops to buy. And, again, we just have to reiterate, these are the - the people that we spoke to are the ones who were able to get to that airport. There's so many more who are far out of reach of help.

BLITZER: Looks like total chaos to me. All right, Nima Elbagir, thanks very much, one of our courageous journalists here at CNN.

Let's bring in Colonel Francona. These Saudi-led air strikes, are they having any impact at all on these Iranian-backed Houthi Shiite positions?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Not - not really. What turned out to be a pretty good idea has turned into just an absolute humanitarian disaster. Their - the bombing, which was fairly targeted at first, has now expanded into residential areas. They're missing their targets. They're just causing so much damage. They're - as she said, the power's out, the water's out. So it's turning into a real problem there. And the Saudis haven't coupled this with the right diplomatic approaches. They've failed to get the other Arabs around them to try and force the Houthis to let - to come to the table and put al Hadi back into some sort of power sharing agreement. So I think we've just come across this chaotic environment and I don't see any real out here.

BLITZER: I take it the U.S. - and from the U.S. perspective, the main concern was always that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP, is based in Yemen and the U.S., once it had good cooperation with what was then the Yemeni government, the Yemeni military, the U.S. could launch drone strikes and go after AQAP positions. I take it for all practical purposes, that has ended. Is that right, colonel?

FRANCONA: That's true, Wolf. And if you had to pick one - one group that's actually benefitting from all of this chaos is AQAP. As you know, they're probably the most effective of all the al Qaeda organizations. They're out in the eastern part of the country. They're not really involved in the fighting. So they're able to expand their operations. You saw it just last week, they were able to break into a prison and reinforce their ranks with many of their people that were in prison. So this has been a gain for AQAP, a loss for the west, and, of course, a loss for the Yemeni people. So we have to see what - you know, what - where - what the Saudis are going to do with this because it doesn't look like they have a real plan here.

BLITZER: I'll be speaking live later today in "The Situation Room" with the Saudi ambassador to the United States, Adel al-Jubeir. We'll talk about this, what's going on in Yemen and elsewhere, certainly the Iran nuclear deal as well.

Rick Francona, thanks very much for joining us.

Still ahead, there's a new and growing threat in Afghanistan. CNN has new evidence of Afghanis training with ISIS. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:00] BLITZER: There's a new threat emerging in Afghanistan right now and a global first. CNN has new evidence of Afghanis training under the ISIS flag. Training that could also endanger their lives from the rival Taliban. Our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Look closely at these men itching for a fight in the valley south of Kabul and you can just make out a new seismic tremor in the war here. The masks, the webbing, even the breathless clumsiness at altitude Afghanistan has seen before, but not this, the flag of the Islamic State, ISIS. These men are Afghans and wanted to shower our cameraman their allegiance to ISIS. An act that could get them killed by ISIS rivals, the Taliban, the big guns here.

"We established contact," he says, "with ISIS through a friend who is in Helmand (ph). He called us saying ISIS had come to Afghanistan, let's join them. We joined and pledge allegiance."

Our cameraman wasn't allowed to film the sat phones they say they use to talk to Iraq and Syria. They say they're religious students who watched back catalogue (ph) propaganda and at night go into villages to recruit.

"We don't recruit ordinary people," he says. "We only recruit people with a military background in the government or in the Taliban. At the moment, we have no leader, but talks are going on to choose one for us in Afghanistan."

WALSH (on camera): ISIS are only just beginning here, but their timing is good. The Taliban are fractured, either fighting hard or thinking about talking peace and the young and the angry have only known war here might find ISIS' (INAUDIBLE) appealing. Even Washington has heard the threat that ISIS, or daesh, may pose in the vacuum ahead slowing the U.S. troop withdrawal.

PRES. ASHRAF GHANI, AFGHANISTAN: It is critical that the world understand the terrible threat that the daesh and its allied forces pose. From the west the dash is already sending advanced guards to southern and western Afghanistan to test our vulnerabilities.

WALSH (voice-over): Yet whatever their strength, in the swirling chaos of post-American Afghanistan, even these homemade flags betray a purpose and brutality ripe for blooming.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Nick Paton Walsh is joining us now live.

[13:24:57] Nick, you mentioned there was this growing threat that could affect the U.S. troop withdrawal over the next year or two from Afghanistan. Is there a strategy in place for deal with this emerging ISIS threat in Afghanistan?

WALSH: Well, the U.S. military I spoke to said that they are aware of recruitment efforts. They're concerned. They're tracking really the development of any military capability ISIS have, and that would be resources coming into the area. We've heard from Afghan officials reports of their popping up, frankly, in many troubling different districts. At this stage, there doesn't appear to be anything really which will slow the White House's desire to put U.S. troops back in the embassy at the end of 2016. That drawdown is been slowed to assist training, but it's not actually being affected by this rise of ISIS.

What has changed is the Afghan government position. A few months ago they were, to some degree, trying to pretend it wasn't really much of an issue. Ashraf Ghani, who you say there, when he spoke to the Congress in Washington, very clear it is, quote, "a terrible threat." And that's something we're seeing echoed around the country. The real fear, Wolf, being that the Taliban, they are now, perhaps tired. They're certainly not as appealing as they were to the younger generation.

In fact, Mullar Omar (ph), their chief, today put out a biography, perhaps a bid to try and boost his, quote, "personal narrative" you might say in American political terms, to make himself more appealing to a generation who find ISIS propaganda online much more attractive. The fear is that they're unemployed, they're angry, they're disillusioned with the war and right now come ISIS' brand of extremism. That could prove very attractive. We've seen in the past quite what a safe haven Afghanistan can be for extremism. That's where al Qaeda found a safe haven under the Taliban. History could potentially repeat itself. That's what's so troubling here, Wolf.

BLITZER: Certainly is. All right, Nick Paton Walsh doing excellent reporting for us, as he always does. Thank you.

Up next, big changes ahead for Hillary Clinton as she gets closer and closer to a campaign announcement. It could come any day now. We're learning more about how version 2016 will be different than the last go around.

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