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Police And Crowds Gather On Baltimore Streets; National Guard Deployed After Baltimore Riots; Baltimore Curfew Goes Into Effect Today. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 28, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: -- overshadowing a lot of the work that had been going on there among peaceful folks who want to -- want to make a difference there.

I do -- I agree with you. I mean, there is a sense of exasperation and tiredness that you see coming from this president and it was there, I think, too, in the wake of Ferguson. He sort of reached the limits of his presidency, in terms of what he can do about it. And he reached the limits even of his rhetoric. I mean, this was a president that came in, everyone talked about post-race, everybody talked about the wonderful race speech he gave in 2008.

But now, what, is the question. And you look at the two parties and in some ways, over the last 20, 30, 40 years, Democrats haven't wanted to talk much about poverty. They've been very tough on crime wanting to appear like Republicans. It does feel like we're at a new moment, I think, with both of these parties wanting to talk a little bit more about poverty, wanting to talk about criminal justice reform from the left and the right. So, perhaps, there is -- the president didn't seem too hopeful, in terms of this Congress, but perhaps there's something that can be done.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ladies, stand by because we have a lot to assess right now.

To our viewers, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Wherever you're from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We're following the breaking news. An American city under a state of emergency right now. We're talking about Baltimore, Maryland, trying to recover after a night of rioting, looting and chaos and the situation remains tense right now.

U.S. National Guard troops, they are on patrol. Five hundred Guard troops have already arrived and hundreds more, we are now told, they are on the way. The National Guard says more than 5,000 military personnel are needed, if they're available, if, in fact, they are needed and presumably they will be.

Looters picked through what's left of a burned out shoe store earlier this morning. Some businesses remain shut down. A shopping mall closed because of security concerns. Schools throughout the city of Baltimore, and this is one of the largest cities in the United States, are off today. They're out. Some federal government workers were sent home early as a result.

And, once again, tonight's major league baseball game, the Baltimore Orioles game, has been postponed in part because of a 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. curfew on the streets of Baltimore. The rioting broke out on the same day the family of Freddie Gray held his funeral. Gray's death, while in police custody, set off the initial wave of mostly peaceful protests, but his family strongly condemned the violence that erupted yesterday.

And just moments ago, you heard it here live, President Obama was asked about the situation. He said his thoughts are with the injured police officers. He condemned the looting and the lawlessness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's no excuse for the kind of violence that we saw yesterday. It is counter-productive. When individuals get crowbars and start prying open doors to loot, they're not protesting. They're not making a statement. They're stealing. When they burn down a building, they're committing arson. And they're destroying and undermining businesses and opportunities in their own communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The city of Baltimore has imposed a week-long curfew, as I noted, starting at 10:00 p.m. local time until 5:00 a.m. It starts today.

Some residents are trying to pick up the pieces and move forward. They were out earlier today cleaning up trash and debris. It's an enormous job that's underway.

Our Correspondents Ryan Young and Brian Todd, they're both in Baltimore for us. Ryan, give us a sense of what you're seeing, what you're hearing on the streets of Baltimore right now?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what a big difference a day makes. In fact, we saw many people come out here with -- to sweep up an also to come help clean up the community. You can see the police officers right here. But there's been a lot of counseling going down the line here. In fact, there's a group of older gentleman that are standing here and they are talking with the youth to make sure this remains peaceful.

And this is a cultural extension because on the other side of this, you can hear the drums and we can hear people playing instruments. There's a group that's come out here to sort of entertain the crowds and make sure things stay peaceful. But we've seen people from all over Baltimore coming out here to help clean up. Coming with garbage bags and brooms to make sure they show that they are a one Baltimore.

A lot of the conversation here, Wolf, has been about the idea that the burning down the CVS, which is across the street, has taken away from the idea of trying to find out exactly what happened to Mr. Gray. You can see some people are interlocking their arms standing in front of the police. So far, the police and the protesters have remained separated. And you can see the line that's here. But if you look across the way there, that's the CVS. About a half hour ago, Jesse Jackson arrived here and talked to some of the members of the crowd.

But so far, it's remained very peaceful, people having conversations breaking down in the crowd crying and saying they need economic help but they also want change and reform within this police department.

[13:05:13] BLITZER: And, Todd, you're there as well. Where are you? What are you seeing?

BRIAN TODD, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm at the corner of North Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue here. An impromptu street protest has developed here. And there are people here, as Ryan pointed out -- I'm not too far from where Ryan was. The people here are kind of arguing among themselves. Some factions arguing with others. An older crowd trying to push some of the younger protesters back, telling them they've got to be peaceful. Some of the younger protesters saying they have a right to vent their anger.

And it did get a little tense a short time ago. I'll take you back here where we're going to move among the protesters that are still talking. A little tight squeeze here. But this developed a short time ago when some of the riot police moved in to apprehend someone who was being very vocal in the crowd. When that happened, the crowd got more agitated and moved up against the police, started really becoming tense but it then calmed down. What's interesting is that a lot of the crowd -- as we noticed last week in Baltimore, some members of the crowd, as you saw here, are self-policing. They're moving among themselves, telling their fellow protesters to calm down. One lady actually grabbed one of these things and used it as a bull horn talking to people, yelling at people to back off.

So, I mean, they're doing some self-policing today in the impromptu street protest. It's a little bit festive, on occasion. You've got some music and some drums playing here. So, it has been a healthy atmosphere of protests at this intersection so far, Wolf.

But, again, you've always got this little -- this energy right below the surface that is right there and kind of ready to explode. So, I think it could happen at any moment here on the streets, even in the daylight. All eyes, of course, will be on this area when darkness descends and when the curfew is imposed. This area was seen as some of the worst looting and some of the worse violence last night that we witnessed. Stores being ransacked and burned, cars burned, officers being injured. So, we'll keep a close eye on this section of Baltimore today, Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, let's hope the people there heed the advice of the president of the United States, go ahead and have peaceful protests but don't do the looting, don't do the arson, don't do the violence because you're going to wind up in jail. We'll get back to you, Brian.

As a lot of people around the country woke up this morning, they heard about the looting, they heard about the damaged buildings, the businesses that have been destroyed, the arrests, the injured in Baltimore.

Let's not forget, this was also a day that the Gray family wanted to mourn. The attorney, Mary Koch, is joining us now. She represents Freddie Gray's family. Mary, thanks very much for joining us. How has the family reacted to the violence that erupted yesterday?

MARY KOCH, ATTORNEY: The family is I want to use the word disappointed. I've used that word before. The family really hoped that Freddie's legacy would be that positive change would be made, that they'd get answers to the -- to the question of what happened to their son, to their brother. But that it also would be a moment of positive change and moving forward. And unfortunately with the violence that occurred yesterday, it detracted from Freddie's story and the question surrounding his Freddie's death and did not honor his legacy, in their opinion.

BLITZER: So, what do they want the community to do now?

KOCH: They want the community to do what the community did when Saturday began which is the peaceful protests. The peaceful protests that showed this -- to the city, to the city police department, to the city as a whole, to the state, to the country. And that these are things that happened. That you may not be familiar with them. They may not be things that happened in your life. But these are things that are -- that happen in this country. That we need to look carefully at them. We need to answer the questions that police and government needs to be accountable to the people and answer the questions when the questions are asked. And that, in some way, shape, or form, you know, the peaceful protests continue to keeps the pressure on to keep the -- hopefully to get the answers started rolling so that we can, finally, have some understanding of what occurred on that day.

BLITZER: Well, have you received any answers from the mayor, from the police commissioner, from others, about what happened to Freddie Gray? He was taken into police custody. He was arrested. Then he wound up with a broken neck, a broken spinal cord. He went into a coma and he died in the hospital a few days later. Have they given you any answers yet?

KOCH: Absolutely not. We get the same answers that you get, you and the press get. We have asked certain questions. There are certain pieces of information that are going to remain the same regardless of what happens that are not going to affect the criminal investigation. And that is things like the transmissions between the police officers that would give some indication of what was going on with Freddie Gray as he was being transported throughout the city and finally arrived at the western district. The information from the paramedics report about what they saw and what they did to render aid to Freddie Gray. Information about what other video surveillance have you gathered that the public should see that answer or give some insight into what was actually going on?

[13:10:17] Some -- these statements of the police officers, they're not going to change. Those things that are not going to change are no danger of being -- of affecting negatively the criminal investigation because they are -- will always be what they are. They are memorialized in time. They are -- for example, the transmissions of police officers and 911 tapes are routinely released, pursuant to PIA requests, pursuant to request of the police department to release that information. That is public information. The public has a right to know. The public has a right to transparency. And the family has a right to some answers. And to the extent they can be given, it needs to start now.

BLITZER: Did you have a chance, Mary, to hear the six points the president of the United States laid out or asked about what's going on in Baltimore?

KOCH: I did. I absolutely did. I listened very carefully to what the president had to say.

BLITZER: And what did you think?

KOCH: And -- if you want -- you know, what I think always, which may sound like something that's such a simplistic answer. But what I really think is what we really -- the basis of everything that he's saying is, we need to treat each other with basic human respect. We need to interact with people whether those people come from in -- if I'm going to use Baltimore references, whether those people come from Roland Park which is a place where it's more expensive to live or Pennsylvania North Avenue where it is not as expensive to live, people in those communities should be treated and interacted with exactly the same.

And until we start to recognize that and until we start to take -- make our police officers accountable for their interactions with the community, things are not going to change. That's number one. Number two, what I think is really important about what he said is there needs to be a partnership between the community and the police department.

And I think that the way in which policing occurs now, there's not that same sort of thing that we had probably a decade or so ago where we were really focused in Baltimore and community policing, setting up PAL (ph) centers, setting up kiosks in neighborhoods, forging relationships between the officer who worked in that district and in that beat and the people that he was protecting and serving. And I think that we need that again because you establish those on a personal level.

BLITZER: Mary, I just want to interrupt for a moment. They've just detained -- they've just -- it looks like they've just arrested someone. There, you see it right now. These are live pictures coming in. I don't know what this individual was -- is being detained for. Actually, this is videotape that just is coming in. But you see at least one individual has been detained. Police there with their shields, with their helmets, their batons. They're going through this crowd. We're also beginning to see some smoke there. Let's hope that it doesn't escalate but clearly a tense moment. We're going to stay on top of this.

I want to thank you, Mary Koch, the attorney for Freddie Gray's family, for joining us. We'll continue our conversations down the road. These are live pictures. Once again, you see a row of police now standing, protesters on the other side. A sensitive time indeed.

National Guard troops, they are also on the streets of Baltimore. They're pairing with local police in a show of force after a night of violent rage and rioting. Joining us now from Atlanta, Cedric Alexander. He's the Chief Operating Officer for Public Safety in DeKalb County, Georgia. He's also the president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives and a key member of the White House task force on community policing.

Joining us as well from Los Angeles is the city councilman, the former chief of police, Bernard Parks. And also deputy chief during the Rodney King riots which incidentally began 23 years ago tomorrow. To both of you guys, thanks very much for joining us. Chief Parks, first of all, your reaction to what's going on in Baltimore, specifically how the police handled themselves yesterday?

BERNARD PARKS, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE, LOS ANGELES: Yes, I think, Wolf, you have to look at the circumstances that we have seen over time that little is gained by allowing a crowd to get not only animated but to get involved in criminal behavior and not take positive action against that. It destroys the ability to have a peaceful march, a peaceful demonstration. It allows the criminals in the crowd to take over the circumstances and to then get where we are today where buildings are burned down and the community is in upheaval. So, I think that, as we saw it again in Ferguson in the first couple of days where decisions were made not to take aggressive action, you have to stop criminal behavior before it takes over the city.

[13:15:00] BLITZER: A good point. Cedric, I want to move on and look ahead. But let's look back briefly right now. Where was there a blunder yesterday? Because, clearly, this is not what the mayor wanted. This is not what the police commissioner wanted. But we saw not for 10 minutes or 20 minutes, maybe two hours, looting going on especially at that CVS Pharmacy.

I didn't see police vehicles rush to the scene. I didn't see police officers go there. I assume a lot of those young guys who were looting that pharmacy would have run away if the police would have shown up?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, COO, DEKALB COUNTY, GEORGIA PUBLIC SAFETY: Yes. Well, I'm going to be careful, Wolf here, because what may have occurred, and, of course, I'm not there in Baltimore, is that I don't think they expected once school let out that they would have such situation on their hand.

It appears that they may have been just unprepared for what emerged very quickly and rapidly up on them and when they tried to bring in the resources they need it may have taken a little bit longer than they anticipated.

The thing about this Wolf, I've said this before, there's no specific playbook to this. If we go back and look at Ferguson, we saw a lot of clear mistakes that were made that we all frowned upon.

I think the city of Baltimore took a much less harsher approach, but what happened things sped up very quickly for them as well too. It's trying to make that balance in the decisions as to how much force do you apply, how much do you not?

And in this particular case it didn't work out very well for them. But it appears they're much more prepared today, at least let's hope so. It's going to be a long day.

BLITZER: Let's hope they are better prepared today. Chief Parks, your thoughts because it was so frustrating we were all watching it live on television right here on CNN, all the local stations in Baltimore were showing live helicopter pictures of what was going on, the looting there.

After 5 or 10 minutes, I assumed the police would show up, they didn't show up basically for at least two hours only after the fire started and the fire engines couldn't get there, firefighters couldn't get there, and eventually they got there.

What -- can you -- is there any rational explanation why the police didn't show up at that pharmacy or that liquor store or that cell phone store or the check cashing store and stop what was going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there are only two things that could have occurred. One is, if they were overwhelmed and did not have the necessary resources and they couldn't deploy them safely, that would be one reason.

If there was a conscious decision not to respond and allow it to play itself out, that's another decision. That's the only two things I can think of that could have occurred because if you are addressing this and overwhelmed you're not going to send a small contingent of officers in to become overwhelmed and not handle the situation.

But again, two hours in many instances with mutual aid and a variety of things that are in place throughout the nation, it would appear that you could assemble resources to at least have a visible presence.

BLITZER: Yes. You would have thought. I'm sure they are going to be reviewing that and get lessons learned down the road not only in Baltimore but other communities as well.

If both of you could stand by, Bernard Parks and Cedric Alexander. I want to go quickly back to Ryan Young, our reporter on the streets. I just want to be precise, Ryan, it's pretty peaceful right now. There have been one or two violent incidents, right?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's be honest because I've been here the entire afternoon talking to people in the community and we haven't experienced anybody who seemed like they were going to be violent. In fact, right now, the crowd is dancing around us.

They're doing a circle around the entire area where people are protesting and you can hear the music in the direction. We're going to walk closer. This right here is called Capeleta, it's a Brazilian martial art, showing this while everyone is kind of calmed down.

They don't have the same sort of issues we've seen before. There has been some back and forth in terms of people yelling at the police and being upset, but it has stayed at a distance, not the same anger that we saw or experienced from yesterday.

I talked to the people here in the crowd and they say they are trying to make a bigger difference in terms of making sure their voices are heard doesn't get out of hand. You can see a lot of children here as well.

This is a crowd black and white came here earlier to clean up. They are handing out water to each other. You do not feel that tension. They're making sure they keep the media accountable.

One of the things they want to talk about yes, that CVS is burned down, they wanted to rebuild and talk about that today in terms of having this community not have what happened just a few hours ago.

BLITZER: Ryan, I'm going to have you stand by as well. I want to bring in Deray McKesson, a community activist who we first met in Ferguson, Missouri. He is now in Baltimore, as part of a peaceful protest. Thanks very much for joining us. What's your plan today? What's your mission in Baltimore?

[13:20:11] DERAY MCKESSON, COMMUNITY ORGANIZER: You know, we're here supporting the protesters on the ground and continuing the movement. There's been a lot of positive demonstrations over the past couple months here in Baltimore and across the country because the police have continued to kill people. Tonight will be another night where people come out in the streets to confront a system that is corrupt.

BLITZER: But you want peaceful protests, right?

MCKESSON: Yes, for sure. And remember the people that have been violent since August has been the police. We think about the 300 people that have been killed alone, that is violence. Property damage here that's been really unfortunate over the past couple, for a day or so here. There have been many days of peaceful protests in Baltimore City and places all around the country.

BLITZER: But at least 15 police officers have been hurt, 200 arrests, 144 vehicle fires, these are statistics, local police have put out 15 structure fires. There is no excuse for that kind of violence, right?

MCKESSON: Again, there's no excuse for the seven people that the Baltimore Police Department has killed in the past year either, right?

BLITZER: We're not making comparison, obviously. We don't want anybody hurt. I just want to hear you say there should be peaceful protests not violent protests in the tradition of Dr. Martin Luther King?

MCKESSON: There should be peaceful protests. I don't have to condone it to understand it, right, that the pain that people feel is real and you are making a comparison. You are suggesting this idea that broken windows are worse than broken spines, right.

And what we know to be true is that the police are killing people everywhere, killing people here, six police officers were involved in the killing of Freddie Gray and we're looking for justice there.

And that's real, right. Like the violence that the police have been inflicting on communities of color has been sustained and deep.

BLITZER: But you agree I assume with President Obama, who said a few moments ago, there is no excuse for the violence that erupted yesterday, no excuse for the stealing, for the arson, you agree with the president?

MCKESSON: What I agree with is that I advocate people to peacefully protest and know that pain manifests in different ways and I don't have to condone it to understand it. People are grieving and people are mourning. And I would advocate personally for people to do it in ways that you are calling peacefully. I know that Freddie Gray will never be back and those windows will be.

BLITZER: The -- and the president also said, President Obama, he said the violence, he said, distracted from the peaceful protests and distracted from the morning that the family of Freddie Gray was seeking yesterday. Your reaction to that?

MCKESSON: Distracted from progress is when city officials get on TV and call black people in pain thugs, right? That's a distraction. I think that the unrest, the uprising, whatever you call it, is again a cry for justice here and a cry for justice across the country because police continue to terrorize people.

The terrorizing is actually deadly. Broken windows are not broken spines. People are in pain. So I think that the president, I hope that he understands the conditions be that created the unrest and continue the unrest not only here in Baltimore but across the country. Freddie Gray will never see another day and either will Tamir or Mike Brown.

BLITZER: Deray McKesson is a community organizer in Baltimore right now, was in Ferguson, Deray, thanks very much for joining us. I want to go back to Ryan Young on the streets of Baltimore right now. Ryan, update our viewers who may be tuning in, what's the latest?

YOUNG: Wolf, we're walking through the crowd and talking to people. Let me tell you something, mostly everybody is coming together. If you look around us, people showing up with hats and coming from baseball uniforms on because they're coming out to clean, being a part of the community, black and white.

The music has taken over, the center of the street and the crowd is clapping in unison altogether working throughout and talking about police issues.

At the same time there have been arguments about how it should be cleaned up or done, but everything has remained remarkably peaceful so far. Not the sort of tense moments we thought we would see from a little earlier when there was some people yelling at the police officers.

The only thing that's happened so far over here, there was a shift change. Look, now the crowd has put a barrier between the protesters and the police officers.

Took off my badge and dropped the mike and walked through the crowd about an hour talking to people who live in this neighborhood and they wanted to make sure this neighborhood was highlighted for the right reasons, not just what happened yesterday.

Obviously people who were crying over what happened in this community because they realize it's going to be a long time before they get it back. One of the things they want to talk about the idea they're strong as a community and they plan to rebuild and come back.

[13:25:07] Look at this crowd and see what's going on, you can see the fact that everyone is coming together and not even from the same neighborhood. People just want to be a part of it -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Let's hope it stays peaceful over there. Ryan, thanks very much on the streets of Baltimore. We are taking a quick break. When we come back we'll also bring into our special coverage a member of the Baltimore City Council, much more of our special coverage from Baltimore right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A news conference under way, Baltimore County Police are briefing reporters, let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- the thing to do with the safety issue whatsoever, in fact, our messaging for the parents are please let your kids stay in school, please let your kids keep doing the things that they do day to day. There's no reason for anyone to deviate from a normal routine here in Baltimore County. OK.

BLITZER: All right. Well, we obviously got in at the end of that statement. We'll turn the video around and see what they said. Clearly this is still a major, major crisis. State of emergency under way in Baltimore.

Mostly peaceful, largely peaceful protests under way right now, although there have been a few incidents, some looting going on, some arrests, but basically peaceful for now.

The numbers from the night of chaos in Baltimore, though, they are staggering, 202 people arrested, 144 vehicle fires, 19 structure fires, 15 police officers injured.

Joining us now from Baltimore, District 7 Councilman, Nick Mosby. Councilman, your city is under a state of emergency. There is a curfew in place from 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. I guess, the bottom line question, how did it get to this point?

NICK MOSBY, BALTIMORE DISTRICT 7 COUNCILMAN: It's really rough to say. We saw, you know, two weeks of quality protesting, very productive, and then unfortunately Saturday we had a small pockets of folks that were unproductive and then yesterday, it just quickly turned south.

Some children, Baltimore City public high schoolers decided to do a purge movement via social media and got the word out and they were going to meet in a mall in West Baltimore and the police met them and confronted them and it turned out of hand.

Unfortunately, I think that we just weren't prepared the way that we should have been prepared for what took place on the streets. About 4:40 yesterday, I got stuck on the intersection of North and Fulton and, you know, I saw police cars completely pummeled with rocks.

I've seen a car set on fire. I was trying to get back to city hall. The one thing I will say is that the things that have been working to deescalate and defuse the situation, I got together with about two 200 to 300 pastors yesterday and walked the streets.

We basically walked in front of the police towards the demonstrators and protesters, and folks causing the violence, to say enough is enough. Many of them calmed. It calmed for about two or three hours before it started back up again last night.

BLITZER: It started up pretty violently. Why was the community, the police, the local law enforcement authorities, state, county, federal, why weren't they prepared for this? Because there was a lot of indications throughout the day, especially since Saturday night, that this could really turn ugly?

MOSBY: Well, Wolf, I know about 10:00, we tried to send e-mails off to try understand and know what were the appropriate tactical operation steps and what we should kind of communicate to the community.