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ISIS Forces Target Key Iraqi Military Base; Obama and Abadi Speak at G7 Summit; Iraqi Forces Battle Over Baiji Oil Complex; Successes and Setbacks in ISIS Fight; There's No Complete Strategy for Training Iraqis; Need Specific Commitment from Iraqi Government; Terror Suspect Shooting Video; New York Prison Break. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 08, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- military base where Iraqi forces mass and plan their next move against the militant group.

Our Senior International Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us now live from Baghdad. Nick, you're just back from the area. What can you tell us about the fight and, specifically, the importance of that Iraqi military base?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're talking about the military base, Habbaniyah, which is on the edge of the town by the same name. Now, this is between the two ISIS-held towns of Ramadi and Fallujah and is where for the past weeks since they declared the beginning of the operation to free Anbar of ISIS, Iraqi security forces and fighting groups, Shia and Sunni, across the sectarian divide here in Iraq are supposed to have been amassing to lead that counterattack.

Now, they say they're in evidence around the city. We didn't see that. The furthest they would take us, First Western Television (ph), to get there is into this base, Habbaniyah. And we did not see, frankly, a large massing of soldiers there or fighters or, frankly, the preparations you would normally expect to see in the event of a large counterassault being launched.

What is clear there, though, and you can see the pictures here, is they are in a daily, at times, cat-and-mouse game with ISIS. ISIS are across the river from their north. The river runs across the entire north of that main base and they exchange fire on a pretty regular basis there. So, many of the Iraqi security forces on that base caught up in the defense of it from its north. And I have to say, from being there, not a major sense of some enormous offensive being imminent -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. Well, that's -- you're an eyewitness account that you had. At the G7 summit in Germany today, both President Obama and the visiting Iraqi prime minister, Haider Al Abadi, they mentioned the importance of the Iraqi city of Ramadi. They said the loss of the city to ISIS last month, though, was just a temporary setback. Where does the fight to retake Ramadi actually stand right now? WALSH: Well, it is supposed to be happening, as we speak. When we

were there, there were suggestions that Husaybah (ph), which is the town closest, potentially, to Ramadi on its outskirts was seeing some sort of clashes (INAUDIBLE.) As I said earlier, there were supposed to be a semi-circle of Iraqi forces, pro-government Iraqi forces, sort of around the south of that city. But we haven't seen a substantial move in yet and the condition of that base we were at where this counterassault was supposed to be being prepared certainly, in my eyes, made that look questionable as a massive imminent move.

And one of the details that stood out, Wolf, we're looking very much, I think the U.S. certainly is, to see how many Sunni fighters can get put into this operation. Of course, Anbar being the Sunni heartland here in Iraq, Ramadi the capital of it, ISIS a Sunni group. But there are many Sunnis who wish to kick ISIS out of their area. It's vital for Baghdad's government to get them on board.

The key question is how many Sunnis are involved in this counterattack? Well, we asked that question. We were told, on paper, by one Iraqi official there are 2,000. But in reality, there maybe 500 or so. Now, we didn't see them ourselves. That's a much smaller number and they're said to be already out in the field. But if that's the case, they're significantly outnumbered by the Shia fighting groups we saw in that particular base and its outskirts -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And very quickly, the effort to try to get the Baiji oil refinery, where does that stand? That's critically, strategically important, obviously.

WALSH: Well, mixed reports. I think if you listen to Washington, they sound more pessimistic than the Iraqis, for obvious reasons. The Iraqis did announced that they had taken the city of Baiji and sort of outskirts around it. Now, that's all fine and well but the key strategic issue of Baiji is it is home to a massive oil refinery, energy infrastructure. That is still in ISIS hands, perhaps a very small number of them. But they have threatened ecological catastrophe, frankly, if they are forced to retreat from there by using booby traps they set up around the structure to detonate causing that potential disaster for the area around there.

But according to Iraqi officials, they have the area around there. And that could be a very effective southern buffer for them if they do as it was supposed to be happening right about now but has been delayed by the violence in Anbar. If they do later try and launch an operation to the north to liberate the city of Mosul where ISIS moved in nearly exactly a year ago now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it's been a year already, indeed. Lots of Iraqi talk but based on your eyewitness account, at least so far, limited Iraqi action. Nick Paton Walsh on the scene for us in Baghdad.

President Obama points to progress but also the problems in the war against ISIS. He says the Pentagon is now working on new plans to try to speed up the training of Iraqi forces, but he concedes, in his words, there's no complete strategy yet. The president met with the Iraqi prime minister, Haider Al Abadi, on the sidelines of the G7 summit in Germany and in a news conference, just a little while ago, the president gave a rather candid assessment of the effort to degrade and defeat ISIS.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have made significant progress in pushing back ISIL from areas in which they had occupied or disrupted local populations. But we've also seen areas like in Ramadi where they're displaced in one place and then they come back in another. And they're nimble and they're aggressive and they're opportunistic. So, one of the areas where we're going to have to improve is the speed at which we're training Iraqi forces.

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BLITZER: Let's get some more now on the president's assessment of this fight against ISIS, his meeting with the Iraqi prime minister. Our Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is traveling with the president. Jim, the president's critics, clearly they're likely to pounce on his comment that there's no complete strategy yet for training Iraqi forces. Why is there no complete strategy? The U.S. has been at war against ISIS for a long time.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, roughly 10 months now. And keep in mind the linchpin of the U.S. strategy for defeating ISIS is to conduct air strikes from the air and to train and arm Iraqi security forces on the ground. So, if the cornerstone of this strategy is training Iraqi security forces, it is a curious comment to hear from the president, quote, "We don't yet have a complete strategy" because it requires commitments on the part of the Iraqis. As of right now, I suppose they don't have those commitments.

And it's interesting to point out, Wolf, later on in those comments, the president said that while they do have the training capacity in Iraq, they don't have the trainees, essentially. I'm paraphrasing there but that's essentially what he said. So, those two comments seem to be in contradiction. They want to ramp up the training. Over at the Pentagon, the president says he's waiting on a plan from the Pentagon to present to the American people to ramp up this training of Iraqis, but yet, at the same time, he's saying, almost in the same breath, that they don't have the proper number of trainees.

And so, this it obviously harkens back to what the president said last summer, you'll recall, Wolf, when he said, we don't have a strategy for dealing with ISIS in Syria. That set off another round of criticism of the president's strategy. And it comes at a time, just remember, last week, CNN-ORC poll found nearly two-thirds of Americans don't approve of the president's handling of the battle against ISIS.

And so, all of this is not coming at a very good time for this president. I will say, though, that it seemed as if he patched up that relationship somewhat with the Iraqi prime minister, Haider Al Abadi. As you said, they met on the sidelines of this G7 summit. And you heard the president praising the prime minister saying that he's doing a better job of uniting the country than his predecessor did, Nouri Al Maliki. And the president said there's going to be more support coming his way.

For the prime minister's part, Wolf, he did say, look, he wants to see more support. That's why he came to the Alps here to ask for support from the G7. But he's not really getting any concrete laundry lists of weapons and training and that sort of thing just yet. And as the president said in his own words, the Pentagon just has not presented him with a plan yet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jim Acosta traveling with the president. Thank you.

Up next, we'll have much more on the president's anti-ISIS strategy that's emerging right now. We'll take a closer look at what's standing in the way.

And they call it little Siberia because of its remote location. It's also one of New York's highest-security prisons. And yet, two convicted killers still managed to pull off a spectacular escape. How did they do it? The hunt to track them down. We have new information. Stay with us.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We don't yet have a complete strategy because it requires commitments on the part of the Iraqis as well. The political agenda of inclusion remains as important as the military fight that's out there.

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BLITZER: More of what have the president had to say at his news conference at the G7 summit in Germany just a little while ago. He was answering questions, shortly after a meeting, with the Iraqi prime minister, Haider Al Abadi, on the sidelines of this summit. Joining us from New York is Bobby Ghosh. He's CNN Global Affairs Analyst, managing editor of "Quartz." Here in Washington, the former State Department official, Aaron David Miller, Vice President of the Woodrow Wilson International Center, a think tank here in Washington. President says he's waiting for a commitment from the Iraqi government, that's why there's no complete U.S. strategy yet to deal with the Iraqi military to arm them, to train them. Were you surprised to hear that from the president?

AARON DAVID MILLER, VICE PRESIDENT, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: Well, again, given his earlier comment about no strategy for dealing with the Syrian crisis. I mean, it's just fodder for his opponents. I mean, part of what he has to say is right, there has to be a degree -- a large degree of political inclusion to deal with Sunnis on the part of what is a Shia-dominated government, more support to the militias, to the National Guard to empower local elements in Anbar with more weapons, more training, more of a mandate. But to say that we don't a strategy three years after what the Pentagon and others have identified as a critically important threat to the continental United States, it's not a great comment.

BLITZER: What did you think about that no strategy comment, Bobby?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I'm inclined to cut the president a little bit of slack. I don't usually do. But I think, in this case, he was basically communicating the fact that our partners, supposedly in this fight, the Iraqis, haven't got their strategy in order. So, we can have a military strategy from the American point of view but the Iraqis are responsible for the political piece. And if they don't have that -- as I said, if they don't have a plan that includes the Sunnis in the political space and bringing the Sunni tribes in from the cold, there's not a whole lot that Washington can do without Baghdad bringing its game to this.

BLITZER: I think Bobby makes a fair point, Aaron. The president is trying to put pressure on Haider Al Abadi and the Iraqi government. Get your act together. Bring in the Kurds. Bring in the Sunnis. Go ahead, have a strong military. Go out there and fight. Show a will to fight, if you will, then you'll get adequate U.S. support, training, even -- maybe even more ground troops, about 3,000 troops are on the ground in Iraq right now. He's trying to put pressure on the Iraqis, right?

MILLER: He is. But you're dealing with a dysfunctional government which is going to be hard pressed to empower Sunnis. The Iranians clearly are playing a much greater role. They're not going to support a policy by which their Shia constituents are disenfranchised. I think it's not one hand clapping, Wolf. The real -- the reality is, 14 years after 911, we still haven't ultimately defeated Al Qaeda and its derivatives.

So, we have to be real, I think, about what's possible here in the long-term against this organization.

[13:15:09] It's not a terrorist organization only, it's now an infrastructure. It's got a polity. It's got a caliphate. And it seems to me the problem has worsened and it ultimately will present a threat to the continental - the security of the continental United States.

BLITZER: What do you think, Bobby? Is the Iraqi prime minister and his government there, are they going to do what the U.S. wants them to do, get the job done, or is it just going to be some nice words but not really much action?

GHOSH: Well, I'm afraid that it's probably going to be more of the latter. I don't get a sense from Prime Minister Abadi's statements or the statements from other members of his government that they feel an existential threat. They seem to think of ISIS as a problem in the west, in Anbar, that's anyway mostly a Sunni province. A little bit to the north, near Mosul, that's also mostly Sunni. It's a problem among the Sunnis. As long as we keep them away from Baghdad, we're OK. That seems to be the attitude right now. And they need to face the fact that this is an existential threat to the state of Iraq. And I don't hear that sense of urgency in the tone of voice. And until that comes in, as Aaron said, this is really one hand clapping. Unless the Iraqis feel that they need to take this threat absolutely seriously, not simply to protect Baghdad and the Shia-dominated south of the country, but to retake the rest of Iraq and restore the country as a political whole. Until that day comes, this is - there's not a whole lot the U.S. and the other coalition members can do.

BLITZER: Do you want to add -

MILLER: I mean retaking is going to involve a much deeper American military commitment. I mean 3,000 to 5,000 special forces, not just providing advice and training, but as spotters, as coordinators with battalions and brigades, and that poses a huge risk for the administration. I mean, do we want prisoners of war? Do we want ISIS captures of Americans?

This administration is willfully risk-averse on this question. And it's understandable. But we ought to drop the notion that somehow we're engaged like we were in World War II and ultimately defeating the Japanese and Germans. It's not going to happen until you get good governance and some government that's capable of filling up empty spaces and essentially pursuing an inclusivist (ph) policy.

BLITZER: All right, Aaron Miller, he's done an important article, "Five Reasons the U.S. Cannot Defeat ISIS." We heard some of those reasons just now. Thanks very much for joining us.

MILLER: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Bobby Ghosh, always important to have you on our program as well. Thank you.

Just ahead, newly released video shows a deadly confrontation between police and a terror suspect in Boston. We'll go there live for an update on the investigation. And we're going to show you the video.

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[13:21:20] BLITZER: We have some breaking news for you. Boston Police releasing surveillance video today of a deadly confrontation between the terror suspect Usaama Rahim and police in a parking lot last week. Investigators say they had been tracking Rahim as a terror suspect and moved in when he called his father to say his good-byes and indicated he was going to target police in an attack. He had also purchased three military-style knives.

Alexandra Field is joining us from Boston today.

Alexandra, let's show our viewers the video that the Boston Police, they've just released it. Walk us through what we're seeing.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Wolf.

This is surveillance video that is shot from some distance, so it is somewhat grainy. But you can see the course of events that unfolded. And what you'll see in that video is Usaama Rahim, he's in a yellow circle, I believe, and you'll see him approaching a bus stop. Then you see three officers move toward him and then two more officers rush toward him. We're told in the interim there, the three officers spotted a knife. They shouted "knife." And that's when you see those two other officers rush in. The officers seemed to crowd around him. You've got a number of FBI agents there and one Boston Police officer.

Wolf, I can't make out the knife in this video because it's, again, shot from a far distance and it is grainy, but what you do see is the officers get close to him and then retreat and then you see the shots fired. Usaama Rahim then falls to the ground.

What's interesting, I think, about this video, Wolf, is it was hugely anticipated and a lot of people have questions about what happened out there in this CVS parking lot, why police would confront a terror suspect in such a public place. What you do see is that there were a lot of cars out there. You're in a relatively busy area. This happened at 7:00 on a Tuesday morning. In fact, you even see a school bus that drives by as the confrontation is unfolding.

We're told from law enforcement officers who showed the video today, Wolf, that one of the officers who fired one of those deadly shots did, in fact, see that bus and reserved fire, waiting for the bus to pass before firing that shot, Wolf.

BLITZER: Alexandra, at the press conference with the authorities just a little while ago, was there any update on the investigation? I know there's a second person, second suspect, maybe even a third suspect. How broad of a conspiracy do they think occurred?

FIELD: Right. Well, you've got these two different investigations that are going on at the same time, Wolf. As you point out, the investigation into the alleged terror plot. We know that they have already netted one arrest as a result of that investigation, that they are continuing to talk to another person. But the focus of the press conference today with the district attorney had to do with the investigation into the officer involved shooting of Usaama Rahim. Because this is an officer involved shooting, it is, of course, under the purview of the Suffolk County District Attorney. It is his job. He is charged with investigating this shooting and determining whether or not there are any charges that would be applicable to any of the officers involved or whether or not that shooting and that use of lethal force was justified.

This is an investigation that will take some time. The file at the end could be some 1,000 pages. Typically, Wolf, we would have seen this surveillance video until the investigation was complete. In the interest of transparency and accountability here, law enforcement officers and the district attorney's office thought it was important to bring this out, put it in the public view because it has been so heavily discussed, Wolf.

BLITZER: Alexandra, thanks very much. Alexandra Field reporting from Boston.

Still ahead, in 170 years, no inmate has broken out of the maximum security prison in New York's Clinton Correctional Facility in upstate New York, at least until now. You won't believe the escape route two convicted killers took to freedom. Plus, we have new images that could possibly help track them down.

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[13:28:29] BLITZER: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.

There are new developments in a major prison break in upstate New York. These two convicted killer, Richard Matt and David Sweat, they are still on the loose after disappearing some time late Friday night, early Saturday. New York State Police have just released these pictures of their distinctive tattoos. They're hoping it will help the public identify the escaped convicts if they're spotted. Right now, hundreds of local, state, and federal law enforcement officials are conducting a massive international manhunt.

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GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: But the first order of business is getting them back. These are really dangerous, desperate men. They are literally killers. We have all sorts of personnel deployed. We're offering a $100,000 reward, 1-800-GIVE-TIP, for the arrest or apprehension of both of these gentlemen. And we want them back. Then we'll piece together how they actually accomplished this. But there's no doubt in my opinion that they needed equipment that they wouldn't have had and they had to have the assistance of someone.

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BLITZER: A female employee at the Clinton Correctional Facility is now being questioned as a possible accomplice.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is on the ground in Dennemora in upstate New York, right outside the prison. Our law enforcement analyst, the former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, is here with me in Washington.

Polo, this escape, it seems right out of a Hollywood movie. Tell us about it, the possibility now of an accomplice.

[13:30:02] POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, that is now what we're hearing from a law enforcement source who's telling CNN this new information, confirming that authorities here in upstate New York have spoken to this woman.