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Cosby Admits Under Oath About Buying Drugs; Anti-ISIS Strategy Under Fire; Defending Anti-ISIS Strategy; ISIS More Nimble Than Al Qaeda; A Long-Term Campaign; World Powers Work Past Deadline; F-16 Collides With Small Plane In South Carolina; F-16 Collides with Cessna; Iran Deal Deadline Extended; Cosby Revelation. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 07, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown in for Wolf Blitzer today. It is 1:00 p.m. right here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London and 9:30 p.m. in Tehran. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thank you so much for being here with us.

And coming up this hour, Bill Cosby admits under oath that he bought drugs to give to women he wanted to have sex with. They are all part of newly released documents from a decade-old court case. The details. Plus, we're going to get reaction from one of Cosby's accusers.

And an emotional day in the South Carolina Senate as lawmakers take the first steps to remove the confederate flag from government grounds.

Plus, one million people flock to see the pope at an open air mass as the pontiff continues his trip across Ecuador. Hear why one of his close friends and colleagues say that this could be the beginning of big changes in the Catholic Church.

But first, the plan to defeat ISIS. U.S. defense secretary, Ash Carter, and joint chiefs' chairman, General Martin Dempsey, are on Capitol Hill today defending the administration's strategy in Iraq and Syria. Here's part of that Senate arms services hearing. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA, CHAIRMAN, ARMED SERVICE COMMITTEE: ISIL is not 10 feet tall. It can be and must be defeated. But that will never happen if we continue to delude ourselves about our current campaign.

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: And so what we're try dog is achieve an enduring defeat which means we've got to work it through partners because they own the -- they have more to gain and more to lose. And, finally, we've got to find a sustainable level of effort since I do believe this is a generational challenge.

ASH CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Local forces on the ground, we know from experience, is the only way to create a lasting defeat of ISIL and that's what the strategy's all about.

DEMPSEY: -- the JTACS and the special force observers are not a silver bullet to the destruction of ISIL. The silver bullet is getting the Iraqis to fight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And joining me now is California Democrat Congressman Adam Schiff, Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee. Thank you so much for being here, Congressman. We heard Ash Carter say that so far the U.S. has trained only 60 rebel Syrian fighters. He admitted that that number is not impressive but he blamed it on the vetting process. Are you surprised by that number? Only 60?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I'm not surprised because we've been briefed about the progress or lack of progress in the program for some time. It is painfully slow and has to cause us, I think, to think about whether this is really viable.

At the same time, I think Ash Carter and General Dempsey are exactly right. We can't substitute American boots on the ground for local forces, because while we can do that and win the battles, they won't stay won. And if we're looking for something enduring, we're going to need local forces and local government to step up here.

BROWN: And we heard President Obama talk about that yesterday saying the goal is to train more of these rebel Syrian fighters. But do you think that that is key in this fight against ISIS?

SCHIFF: I do think it's key. The challenge is, though, that the population there, they want to fight against the regime. They also want to do combat with ISIS, but that's a secondary concern for them. Their primary concern is this government that's been barrel bombing them. So, that's why it's been very hard to recruit.

It's also very hard to find people that you can adequately vet. We want to make sure, obviously, that the weapons and training we give them don't end up going to join ISIS. As we've seen in Iraq, a lot of our weaponry ended up in ISIS hands.

BROWN: Absolutely we saw that. And you mentioned the regime. We heard President Obama also talk about that yesterday saying that the next step in Syria has to be taken to get rid of Assad, essentially. How important, do you think that is? And when do you think that could actually happen realistically?

SCHIFF: I think it's critical because as long as Assad is in power there, there isn't going to be an end to that civil war. And as that civil war rages on, there's always going to be space for ISIS.

I do think we are starting to seeing cracks in Alawite (ph) support for the regime. I think, ultimately, Russia and even Iran are going to have to come around to the conclusion, which see seems pretty obvious at this point, that Assad is never going to rule a unified Syria again. So, either Syria is going to be balkanized or if we want one Syria, and if that's best for the region and as well as the powers in the region, then we need to find a way to transition Assad out of power. I think that's the only way this horrible war comes to an end.

BROWN: As we continue to fight ISIS, now it's been, what, around the year we've been going through this process, something you've been pushing for is this authorization of military force against ISIS in both Syria and Iraq, do you think that is critical in order to degrade, defeat ISIS?

SCHIFF: I think it's less, frankly, about the military strategy, less necessary for the military than it is, frankly, to uphold our constitutional duty.

[13:05:02] We have the obligation to declare war. It's astonishing to me that we're having this conversation, as you point out, about a year from the beginning of these hostilities, and we've never had a vote on it in Congress. That's appalling. And that not only has repercussions, I think, for this war, but it has very important repercussions in the future, because other presidents can decide they no longer need to go to Congress to make war and that would be a terrible change in the balance of power in our government.

BROWN: Congressman Schiff, thank you so much for coming on to talk with us.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

BROWN: And in today's hearing, we also heard a lot of talk about lone wolves who may be inspired by ISIS. Ash Carter specifically talked about the structure difference between ISIS and Al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARTER: The Al Qaeda model was a very hierarchical, very clear command and control-type terrorist enemy. And that meant they had discipline and it meant they could take on big things like 911. But it also meant that when we started to go after them, they were vulnerable to attacks on the command and control structure and on their logistic structure. ISIL is more resilient because it is more decentralized and informal, in that sense. It takes a different kind of campaign. We're highly aware of that as is law enforcement, by the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And President Obama also talked about lone wolf attacks while at the Pentagon yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the small, individual lone wolf attacks, or small cells, become harder to detect and they become more sophisticated using new technologies. And that means that we're going to have to pick up our game to prevent these attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: So, here with me to discuss all of this, the threats and the strategy, is Phil Mudd, CNN Counterterrorist Analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official. Also, CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank. Thank you, both, for being on with us. We have so much to talk about here.

First off, let's go to what the president just said. He said we have to step up our game against lone wolves. Phil, how do you do that? I mean, how do you do that? And I imagine social media would be a key component in that fight.

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORIST ANALYST: It's got to be because if you look at traditional intelligence operations, for example intercepting communications from a core Al Qaeda group to operators in Europe and the United States, watching travel patterns, for example, watching how they develop cells, these traditional methods to look for vulnerabilities in the group aren't available here.

BROWN: Yes.

MUDD: So, you look at what vulnerability a kid in a basement has, and the only one, as you suggested we have, one of the only ones is is he looking at things online that are worrisome? Now, the last thing I'd say on this, as a former practitioner, is the big problem, of course, is that's a big free speech issue. It's not illegal to be radical in the United States and it's not illegal to look at radical literature. So, that's why the feds get nervous when you say, let's go monitor all the online activity.

BROWN: And I know they talk about, you know, it's so hard to differentiate the noise. Who's a legitimate threat versus who is someone that's just sort of mouthing off online?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That's absolutely right. And there's just such a huge volume right now. There are 10s of thousands of pro-ISIS Twitter accounts. There are a lot of radicalized Americans now who are accessing this over social media. And ISIS fighters in Syria and Iraq are increasingly using encrypting messager (ph) systems to communicate to groom followers in the United States for attack, including providing bomb-making training. So, all that's producing a lot of challenges for law enforcement right now.

BROWN: I know I've talked to some officials who say that they'll see an interaction online between a jihadist and an American and then they'll take it into an encryption app and then, all of a sudden, they go dark. It's a big concern. I also want to listen to something else that President Obama said. Let's listen to what he said about unintended consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we try to do everything ourselves across the Middle East, all across of North Africa, we'll be playing whack a mole and there will be a whole lot of unintended consequences that will make us less secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, what unintended consequences do you think he's talking about there, Phil?

MUDD: Well, for example, we've seen cases where if you intervene too early, you've got to ask the question, do you cause a group that otherwise is not interested in attacking the United States to then think about the United States? We've also talked about social issues out there, economic issues in places like Egypt, elsewhere in North Africa, for example.

If you go after the phenomenon of terrorism, what opportunities are you taking away to go after bigger conversations you need with those countries about things like political reform and economic reform? So, I think he's right. I mean, the conversation in this country is delusional. We are not going to --

BROWN: Delusional?

MUDD: Delusional. We are not going to defeat these groups without local militaries that take action and without defeating the ideology that underpin this. Every place you've seen success, southern Philippines, Indonesia, even partly in Afghanistan which is mixed success. We aren't in the lead. It's the locals in the lead.

BROWN: And part of that is the counter narrative online that the U.S. --

MUDD: Yes.

BROWN: -- has a long way to go with countering the ISIS narrative.

Quickly, I want to ask you before we go. We've talked about this, Paul, the fact that Ramadan is still ongoing. We still have, what, like 10 days until the end of Ramadan. There was so much talk about the Fourth of July threat but that threat is far from over.

[13:10:04] CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's absolutely right. And ISIS have called for a surge in terrorism, including in the United States. During Ramadan, their spokesmen is issuing a fatwa last month saying that followers would receive 10 times the rewards in the afterlife if they launch an attack during Ramadan. So, there's still a lot of concern in these last 10, 11 days of Ramadan that you could have an attack.

And, in fact, as you reach the final stages of Ramadan, these jihadis believe that the rewards can go up exponentially for carrying out (INAUDIBLE) operation, especially if they happen to carry out an attack on the so-called night of power, the night Koran was revealed to the prophet Mohammed. It's not clear to the Muslims what date that date is but they believe that if they carry out an attack during that day or night, then they can get an exponential amount of reward. So, a lot of concern as we move forward over these last 10 days around the bend.

BROWN: That's a scary combination thinking about that and then the power ISIS has on social media reaching out to so many Americans.

CRUICKSHANK: Yes.

BROWN: Really frightening stuff. Thank you so much, --

MUDD: Thank you.

BROWN: -- Phil and Paul. We appreciate it.

And coming up right now, Hillary Clinton gives the first national T.V. interview of her campaign right here on CNN. Does this signal a new shift in strategy and is Bernie Sanders' popularity a factor in this?

Plus, negotiators buying more time, pushing today's deadline with a nuclear deal with Iran until Friday? But will that be enough? We'll take you live to Iran.

And this just in, the FAA is now commenting on a mid-air collision between an F-16 and Cessna plane in South Carolina. All the details on that up next right after this quick break.

[13:11:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:44] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking at this hour. We are learning about a collision between an F-16 military aircraft and a small plane in South Carolina. Our Rene Marsh joins me with more on this.

Rene, what have you learned?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, I can tell you this is a rare situation we're following here. The FAA has confirmed that midair collision between an F-16 fighter jet and a small Cessna. This happened about 11 miles north of Charleston, South Carolina, a short time ago. An official close to the investigation telling me there are no survivors in that Cessna. We know the wreckage of the Cessna is now in a river in that area. We do not know how many people were on board. We also have learned that the pilot of the F-16 was able to eject safely.

I can tell you, the NTSB is now en route to this accident site. They're driving, so they won't arrive there until later on this evening. But when investigators get there, they're going to be working to try and determine, were these planes flying in the correct airspace, were they authorized to be where they were? Air traffic control, was air traffic control talking to the pilots? All of that is going to be assessed once investigators get there because this, I can't stress, is a very rare situation where you talk about an F-16 fighter jet colliding midair with a small Cessna. So clearly a breakdown in the system there and now investigators are tasked to figuring out what went wrong so wrong.

Pamela. BROWN: Rene Marsh, thank you for that.

And it looks like all sides are going to stay at the negotiating table in Vienna. Just as the deadline for an Iran nuclear deal was about to come and go, the deadline was pushed to Friday. There are still several points of contention on the table, including an arms embargo and restrictions on Iran's ballistic missile program. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said over the weekend that the talks could go either way. Fred Pleitgen joins me now from Tehran for more on this.

Fred, the Iranians say that there was no formal deadline to begin with as far as they were concerned. Is there still a sense of urgency at all on the Iran side?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good question, Pamela. Certainly you're right, one of the things that the Iranians say is they don't feel under any sort of time pressure, at least that's what their negotiators have said. But, of course, there is a lot of political pressure here in Iran. The majority of the population here in this county want a nuclear deal. They want better relations with the west. However, there are also a lot of hardliners who are very skeptical of what the outcome could be.

Now, I was able to speak to the deputy foreign minister of this country and he said that what's already been achieved is that because the U.S. and the Iranians are talking to each other so much that there has already been a sort of - a closer relations between these two countries. And he said if there is an agreement, things could get even better. Let's listen in to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOSSEIN AMIR-ABDULLAHIAN, IRAN'S DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Our nation has bitter memories of the United States in the past 36 years following our revolution, but the nuclear negotiations are a historical opportunity with the U.S. If the United States acts wisely and logically in these negotiations, then we can say that America has left a positive impression with the Iranian nations. So if the moves and actions of the United States are constructive, it can leave a positive impact of the U.S., which can lead to further engagement and interaction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: But as we've already mentioned, there are still gaps between the two negotiating sides and, of course, in the end, it is going to have to be the supreme leader of this country, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who's going to have to sign off on any deal and he has already said he's quite skeptical of the negotiations, but he does support the negotiating team. So certainly a lot of pressure on the Iranian negotiators as well, Pam.

BROWN: And still a lot of work ahead for them. Thank you so much, Fred Pleitgen in Tehran.

So the big question, is a deal likely to get done by Friday, by the new deadline? Let's bring in Nicholas Burns to talk about this. He is a former U.S. undersecretary for political affairs and led the talks on U.S. and India nuclear negotiations.

So we just mentioned the deadline has been extended to Friday. Iran never acknowledged any deadline to begin with. So, in your view, are three extra days going to be enough to get this deal done.

[13:20:07] NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. UNDER SECRETARY FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Let's hope so. This has been a year and a half of negotiations. The United States has come a long, long way. We're certainly going to be better off if we can stop Iran from becoming a nuclear weapons power at the negotiating table rather than having to resort to military force. And this is a process that's been underway for 10 years. It was started in the George W. Bush administration.

I think Secretary Kerry was right to say there shouldn't be an artificial deadline this week. If it takes two or three more day, it's worth it for the United States. And I think the one thing to remember here is that the Iranians need an agreement more than the United States or Europe because they're under tremendous pressure from the international sanctions. Their economy has deteriorated significantly. And as your correspondents said, there is significant public expectation in Iran that their - those sanctions will be lifted. So it's a good tactic in a negotiation to put some leverage on the country across the table and I think Secretary Kerry hopefully is able to do that.

BROWN: Let's talk about those negotiations because as we've seen, as we've heard, Iran seems defiant on the outside, but what about at the actual negotiating table? How do you sit down at the table and hammer out an agreement with a team of negotiators that you've been so alienated from?

BURNS: Well, this is the really unique feature of this negotiation. We had not had a substantive sustained conversation, the United States and Iran, in 35 years until Secretary Kerry and the Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif began to meet a year and a half ago. So I think that's of value to the United States. It makes us smarter about Iran, I think better able to negotiate a good deal having that type of contact.

But it does mean that there's a huge chasm of trust between these two countries that have been produced by all of the negative events over the last 35 years. That's not going to disappear. And I would - I would disagree with the Iranian foreign minister, who was just on your program, just quoted. I don't see any kind of major improvement in the relationship between Iran and the United States. Iran is making a major push for power right now in the heart of the Sunni world, in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen. I think even if we get the nuclear deal, we're going to have to try to contain Iranian power in the rest of the Middle east.

BROWN: Nicholas Burns, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your perspective about this. We appreciate it.

And coming up at this hour, Bill Cosby admits that he bought drugs with the intention of giving them to women that he wanted to have sex with. The new revelations inside unsealed court documents from 2005.

Plus, one of his accusers, former Playboy playmate Victoria Valentino weighs in. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:256:58] BROWN: A revelation now about Bill Cosby's past. The former TV and comedy star has been under fire for allegedly sexually assaulting women. More than 25 women have come forward to accuse Cosby and now there may be a smoking gun. In a prior lawsuit 10 years ago, Cosby admitted that he got prescriptions for Quaaludes and that he intended to use them to have women have sex with him. But to be clear here, he never admitted that he actually used those drugs on anyone.

So joining me now to talk about this, Victoria Valentino, a former Playboy playmate and one of the women who is making these sexual assault claims against Cosby.

Thanks for coming on, Victoria, to talk to us.

You say that you were assaulted after Cosby slipped a pill in your mouth. When you heard about the details of this deposition, what was your reaction to this revelation and partial admission by Cosby?

VICTORIA VALENTINO, ACCUSES COSBY OF SEXUAL ASSAULT: I was absolutely elated. I was just freaking out. I was so - so excited. I just hadn't heard the news and I got a phone call and they said, what do you think about the news? And I said, what news? And then I was told and I just - I haven't been able to sit still since. I've just been smiling, tapping my feet, humming a tune. It's just really very exciting.

BROWN: So it makes you feel vindicated, obviously.

You know, we did reach out to Cosby's representatives but that say they have no plans to issue a statement. Let me ask you, Valentino, the new details about Cosby's admission stem from a 10-year-old case. If that case had gone to trial, would you have been willing to take stand - to take the stand during the trial?

VALENTINO: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. When I heard about it from, what was it, 10 years ago with Andrea Constand and Barbara Bowman back then, my first thought was, oh, my God, it wasn't just me. This is a pattern of behavior. And I - and I told my daughter, who was living at home at the time, I said, you know, maybe - maybe I ought to contact them and let them know, you know, that I, too, was, you know, the object of that kind of behavior back in 1969.

And then my stomach started twisting and then I couldn't bring myself to dredge it all up again and I just kind of put it away and it all seemed to go away. But now, you know, at 72 years old, I've adult daughters, I've got four grandchildren and if I don't speak my truth and stand in it and stand as an example, I mean, when, you know? And - at my age, who cares, you know? I can say anything I want. And I'm happy to do it now. Yes.

[13:29:54] BROWN: And we will have to see if these revelations coming from this deposition will lead to more women coming forward. I know that is a big question though. The statute of limitations on these claims have expired and Cosby has not been accused or charged with a crime, we should say.

Victoria Valentino, thank you very much. We appreciate you coming on to talk about this and share your story.