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Deal Reached on Iran's Nuclear Future; Republican Candidates Slam Iran Nuclear Deal; Interview with Rep. Mac Thornberry; Iran Deal an Important Step; Obama Will Veto Legislation to Block Deal; Fate of Americans in Iran; Iran Nuclear Deal Suggests Strategic Realignment Between U.S. and Iran; Donald Trump Weighs in on Deal. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Vienna, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We're going to be spending the next hour breaking down, analyzing, discussing the historic deal on Iran's nuclear program. The plan gives peace of mind to some over Iran's nuclear future and the potential for nuclear weapons, while others say it gives Iran a window and billions of dollars to destabilize the Middle East and the world.

But first, here's what we heard immediately after the deal was signed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: National security interests of the United States and our allies.

JAVAD ZARIF, FOREIGN MINISTER, IRAN: We are reaching an agreement that is not perfect for anybody but it is what we could accomplish and it is an important achievement for all of us.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The fact of the signing of this agreement does not eliminate all of the challenges. It's the implementation that will matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Political reaction to the deal was immediate and intense. Republican presidential candidates here in the United States wasted little time sounding the alarm over the agreement. Listen to what Senator Lindsey Graham told our Carol Costello about the deal and how he would approach it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would say to the Iranians, we don't trust you with a large nuclear program because you lie and cheat. You put every Arab state at risk. You put Israel at risk. You put our country at risk. You're taking religious Nazis and empowering this regime at a time when we should be neutering this regime. This is a historically bad deal. It will throw the region into further chaos. It's taking a gasoline can and pouring it on a fire. The Mid East is raging, in terms of conflict now. You have taken it to a new level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Another Republican presidential candidate, Florida Senator Marco Rubio, says the deal undermines U.S. national security. In a statement, he said, and I'm quoting now, "President Obama has consistently negotiated from a position of weakness, giving concession after concession to a regime that has American blood on its hands, holds Americans hostage, and has consistently violated every agreement it ever signed."

But Democratic presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, called this a very important moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Based on what I know now and I will be being briefed as soon as I finished a dressing you, this is an important step in putting the lid on Iran's nuclear program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Obama says he welcomes a robust debit that the U.S. Congress over the Iran deal, but he also says he will veto any legislation that prevents the agreement from being put into place.

The House speaker, John Boehner, says the president broke his promise to keep Iran from enriching nuclear material and to dismantle Iran's nuclear infrastructure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), U.S. SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Listen, the president has abandoned all of those goals and that's why the deal that we have out there, in my view, from what I know about thus far, is unacceptable. It's going to be - it's going to hand a dangerous regime billions of dollars in sanctions relief while paving the way for a nuclear Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Democratic leader in the House, the minority leader, Nancy Pelosi, called the Iran deal historic but she also says, and I'm quoting her now, "We have no illusions about the Iranian regime or the destabilizing influence Iran continues to have in the region, we must maintain our vigilance." She says, "All options remain on the table should Iran take any steps toward a nuclear weapon or deviate from the terms of this agreement."

Republican Congressman Mac Thornberry is the chairman of the House Arms Services Committee. He's joining us now live from Capitol Hill. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us. Tell us why you disagree with Nancy Pelosi, you disagree with this deal, you don't like it.

REP. MAC THORNBERRY (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE ARMS SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, I think it's always tempting for us to feel relief when a complex international problem is solved by diplomacy. But, you know, history tells us that sometimes what looks good on one day, doesn't look so good on future days. And so, my concern here is primarily what this deal gets us. It gets us nine months. The administration says today that Iran could have a bomb within three months. The goal of this deal is to stretch that out for a whole year.

So, in exchange for those nine months of extra time, they get something like $140 billion of sanctions relief which they will use to fuel their destabilizing aggressive agenda throughout the Middle East.

[13:05:01] So, if you just weigh it, even if it goes perfectly, just the way that the negotiators want it to go, I'm not sure that's a good deal for us.

BLITZER: So, what's the alternative? What would happen if the U.S., right now -- for example, let's say -- I suspect it probably won't happen. But let's say the Congress, the Senate and the House rejects this is deal, overrides a presidential veto. What would happen next?

THORNBERRY: Yes. I think the better option is to keep to the goal that the president himself set out originally and that it would be to dismantle and stop the Iranian nuclear program. As was just pointed out, the goal changed in the course of these negotiations and that's really historic. As a matter of fact, Secretary Kissinger and Secretary Schultz wrote about that earlier this year. Our goals shifted from stopping their nuclear program to just stretching it out a bit. And so, keeping the sanctions on, keeping that pressure on, keeping the goal the same, I think, is a better outcome.

When the president said it's either this or war, he's trying to set up strawmen. That's not the only option.

BLITZER: So, when the secretary of state, John Kerry, who negotiated this agreement, when he says, for 10 years, the U.S. and others were imposing very strict sanctions against the Iranians, but that didn't stop them from going forward with accelerating their nuclear program and getting to where they are right now. You say?

THORNBERRY: Yes. I -- it is always possible that, even with the sanctions, they continue their nuclear program. But, obviously, the sanctions were having an effect. Obviously, Iran has been very, very anxious to remove those sanctions. And so, I think that it -- keeping that pressure on, showing some strategic patience is a better option rather than rushing for a deal that is even -- again, even if works perfectly, only buys us an extra nine months of time.

BLITZER: But, at this point, given what's happened over these last several months of negotiations, if the U.S. were to walk away, there's no guarantee Russia or China or the European allies would walk away. They might go ahead and ease their sanctions despite whatever the U.S. does. The fact that if the U.S. imposes these sanctions, there would be restricted or limited impact on the Iranians, right? THORNBERRY: Yes, you're right in the sense that you can't predict or

guarantee what other nations would do. And so, you're also right. There are a number of other factors swirling around Iran's strategic calculation. One of those factors is U.S. military positioning, our defense budget, our restrictions on our efforts in Iraq and all of that perception about whether the U.S. is willing to militarily stand up for our security interests. Obviously, that influences Iran, too, in what they think they can get.

So, I -- you know, you're -- if your point is you can't turn the clock back and start over, of course you're right. Still, that does not say that this deal and the extra nine months versus the $140 billion more that goes into funding the Houthis, Hezbollah, even the Taliban in Afghanistan, the militias in Iraq, that that is a good deal.

BLITZER: Yes, they're going to have a lot - a lot of cash of the Iranians - the young frozen Iranian assets. As you say, maybe $140, 150 billion. But then, they're going to get 10s of billions of dollars more in oil exports once they really get going. They're the fourth largest producer of oil, potentially, in the world. They're going to get a lot of money and they'll be able to use that in ways that, presumably, the U.S. won't be happy with. But we'll continue to watch what's going on.

Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.

THORNBERRY: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: Mac Thornberry is the chairman of the House Arms Services Committee.

President Obama says this deal does, in fact, make the world and the region a much safer place. But it's built not on trust, he says, but verification.

In Iran, the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, is also praising the agreement saying, and I'm quoting him now, "Our prayers have come true."

Let's bring in our Global Affairs Correspondent Elise Labott. She's taking a closer look at the details and they say the devil is in the details. Have they finally now released the entire 100 or so page document?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They have. It's about 50-page document and then about another 80 or so pages of annexes. And, as you said, the devil is in the details. You know, both the U.S. and the Iranians are offering different kind of fact sheets of the deal.

But, look, Wolf, the deal does put significant curbs on Iran's program for the next 10 to 15 years, depending on which aspects of the program. And in return, these are the basic tenets (ph). Iran does get, as you said, hundreds of billions of dollars in unfrozen assets. They're going to be able to do business with the international community. But when the administration looks at some of the alternatives that we've been talking about, the U.S. walking away from a deal, the international community ending their consensus with the U.S. if they were to walk away. They said this is the very best deal they could get. It's not the best deal they wanted but even Foreign Minister Zarif today said, it's not everything anybody wanted, but it's a good deal for everybody.

[13:10:13] BLITZER: Now, have they released anything or are there secret annexes or amendments, shall we say, that have not been released publicly?

LABOTT: Well, they say that there aren't but we don't know.

BLITZER: They say there are or aren't?

LABOTT: They say they are not.

BLITZER: That everything has been released?

LABOTT: They say that everything has been released.

BLITZER: There's nothing secret that's being held from the American public or from the U.S. Congress?

LABOTT: Well, that's what they say. But, clearly, there are going to be classified briefings in Congress. They might have understandings that are written, that are not written that they'll share with the Congress in classified session which then they couldn't share with the public. So, we really 7won't know.

But I think, you know, there is a lot of transparency in this deal, not only in the text but also in the inspections. I mean, the inspections themselves are very vigorous. They're, again, not as rigorous as the U.S. would have hoped in an ideal world but over the next 10 to 15 years. And then, Iran has signed certain protocols under the non-proliferation treaty that will guarantee inspections for the - you know, indefinitely.

So, I mean, there is a lot of transparency in the deal. Are there things that we don't know about? We don't know that we don't know them.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see what we find out. All right, Elise, thanks very, very much.

Still to come, much more on this new deal, this Iran nuclear deal. A historic mistake for the world, that's how Israel's prime minister is describing the Iranian nuclear deal. We're going to tell you why.

Plus, not included in the deal, the release of four American citizens being held in Iran. Could they soon be released back to their families in the U.S. even though they were not part of this nuclear deal? Stand by.

[13:11:48] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:15:51] JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: The true measure of this agreement is not whether it meets all the desires of one side at the expense of the other. The test is whether or not it will leave the world safer and more secure than it would be without it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry speaking just a little while ago, making his public statement on the Iran nuclear deal. He spent at least two years working on it, and the last 17, almost 18 days straight negotiating the fine details in Vienna.

Our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is joining us now live from Vienna. Christiane, you spoke with both Secretary Kerry and the Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif about this deal. It's a strategic realignment, some are suggesting, between these two countries. But tell us what you heard.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed. They were the main negotiators and they have been pretty much locked up together for the better part of the last few days, weeks, month, and two years. So they have really got to know each other in a way that they never had before. And that means the United States and Iran has a different relationship going forward after this day. It is just an arms control agreement, although both President Obama and President Rouhani of Iran talked about what might happen in the future if this worked well.

But when I put that to Secretary Kerry, he said to me, you know, first of all, we've got this deal but the real proof of it will be in the selling of it and the implementing of it. So we've done the hard part but there's another really hard part to go. And we couldn't ask about the big issues that we have between us -- otherwise this may not have happened. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We exclusively negotiated a nuclear deal because we knew that if we got into the other issues, you would never get to the nuclear deal. So an Iran without a nuclear weapon, Christiane, I think you know this as a matter of common sense, is better to deal with than an Iran with one. For those worried about Iran's behavior in the region, we are better off pushing back or dealing with that behavior if they're not on a path to get one. And we believe we are clearly demonstrating a way in which they cannot get the nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So that is the position of the Obama administration, that they have cut off a pathway to a nuclear weapon. But I asked him, of course, about the strong criticism that is coming not just from members of Congress, some hard-liners in Iran, although they're mostly falling in line behind the supreme leader, but also, of course, in Israel, America's strong, strong ally in the region. And he said about all the criticism, he called it political, and he said those who criticize have an obligation to provide a real alternative.

Now, then I sat down with Javad Zarif, who's the Iranian Foreign Minister and on their side the chief negotiator, and I said what did they get out of it and how did they see this going forward?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, we wanted to change the nature of our relationship with the west. We didn't believe it was good for Iran and the west, while we have common threats and common challenges in our region, to be basically entrenching ourself in a non-issue, in an unnecessary crisis, in a fabricated crisis, that has been created for over the past -- almost a decade or more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, Wolf, just to sum up, this is obviously a process that started more than ten years ago under the bush administration and now, after all those years, it has basically legitimized Iran's nuclear program, though imposing strict limits on it for a considerable period of time. Ten years in some instances, 15 years in other issues, 25 years of limits in other areas of this deal. And for that, they get a lifting of sanctions.

Now, in terms of their personal relationships, there's been so much reported about frayed tempers and people shouting. I asked both Kerry and Zarif whether that was true, did they shout at each other?

[13:20:01] And both pretty much admitted, yup, there were moments of real frayed tempers, stir craziness, groundhog day. But they both said separately that after each argument they ended the day with a smile on their faces. And this is a testament to how committed they were for this diplomacy to work. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Christiane, thanks very much, Christiane. Two very important interviews in Vienna today with the Secretary of State of the United States, the Foreign Minister of Iran. And for our international viewers, by the way, Christiane is going to have a lot more coming up right at the top of the hour on "AMANPOUR".

Meanwhile, here in the United States, Donald Trump is the latest Republican presidential candidate to weigh in on this nuclear deal with Iran. Our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash is joining us on the phone from Charlottesville, Virginia. Dana, you had a chance to get Trump's reaction to this agreement. What did he tell you?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, I know it won't surprise you, Wolf, that not unlike the other 14 Republican presidential candidates out there, he was incredibly critical of it. He said in his typical blunt terms that it's a terrible deal. And then he said this. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH (on camera): The president said it's not built on trust, it's built on verification.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not true. It's absolutely not true.

BASH: How do you know that?

TRUMP: They can do whatever they want to do. Because I know many people involved in the negotiation.

The Iranians are very good negotiators. The Persians are always great negotiators. They are laughing at us back in Iran. And why didn't we get our prisoners back? Why doesn't somebody say where are our prisoners? Nobody's talking about it. We have four people that are in prison that shouldn't be. Why couldn't they make that part of the deal? It would have happened quickly, easily, if you had the right messenger.

And that should have actually happened earlier. That should have happened at the beginning of the negotiation. Plus, we're shouldn't be giving them money back. We're giving them billions of dollars. We shouldn't have given their money back.

BASH: So you're in the White House, you're in the Oval Office, Iran and the specter of them having a nuclear weapon is in front of you. What do you do?

TRUMP: Well, first of all, it wouldn't be that soon. And second of all, what I would do is I would have made a deal not from desperation. I would have doubled and tripled up the sanctions and I would have made a much better deal.

I would have also gotten our prisoners back. I'm not saying relative nuclear that's a big deal, but to me it's a big deal, because it represents something. We make a deal, we don't even get these four people back that shouldn't be there? I think it's terrible, but it's emblematic of the way they negotiate. It's like Sergeant Bergdahl. We get a traitor named Sergeant Bergdahl and they get -- look what they get. They get their five guys that they most wanted anywhere in the world. Who makes deals like that? And, by the way, with Bergdahl, six people died trying to get that traitor back. So we get Bergdahl; they get five guys they wanted. That's not the way you deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH (via phone): So, Wolf, obviously, someone like Donald Trump is coming that the from the perspective of how you negotiate something, which is probably not unexpected. Other Republican presidential candidates are much more bellicose, particularly when talking about Israel. Lindsey Graham earlier on CNN, Wolf, said that this is akin to a declaration of war against Israel. BLITZER: Yes, that's what he said. All the Republican presidential

candidates, I think almost all of them -- I haven't heard Rand Paul yet - but almost all of them have come out strongly against this nuclear deal.

And in other related -- an unrelated matter, I should say. Dana, as you know, Trump's camp says he has received threats from Mexico, specifically from El Chapo, the drug lord who escaped from that maximum security prison in Mexico. Did you have a chance to ask him about that?

BASH: I did ask him about that, because, as you know, our justice reporter Evan Perez has been doing reporting asking the FBI about this. The FBI has said when they get any kind of call like this from a presidential candidate, they have to look into it. So I asked Trump; listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH (on camera): The whole issue with the Mexican drug lord that broke out of prison, can you tell me about the threat you believe you got and your conversations with the FBI?

TRUMP: Well, I've had threats because I'm talking about Mexico, and I have great respect for the Mexican leaders because they're much smarter and more cunning than our leaders and they're making much better deals. And I have a theory that Mexico doesn't care so much what I say about the border -- which is horrible, the border -- they care more about what I'm saying about trade because they are making trade deals with the United States that are just stripping us of our money, our jobs, our people. What they're doing to the United States and trade.

And I have a theory that Mexico is calling a lot of shots. And I also know -- I'm suing Univision now for $500 million, I have a very - I have an unbreakable contract. I also think that Univision takes its marching orders, absolutely, from Mexico.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH (via phone): So, Wolf, the backdrop of this is a tweet that came from an account that may or may not have been related to El Chapo. So that's the reason why the FBI is looking into it. And obviously the context of this is Donald Trump making some pretty inflammatory comments over the past month or so about Mexico, Mexican illegal immigrants, which, of course, he has been trying to clarify ever since. Wolf?

[13:25:13] BLITZER: All right, Dana. Good work over there, Dana Bash on the scene covering Donald Trump. Much more of her interview coming up here on CNN later today.

Still ahead, the reality of the Iran nuclear deal. We'll take a closer look at the deal and the enforcement options and a whole lot more. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, because America negotiated from a position of strength and principle, we have stopped the spread of nuclear weapons in this region. Because of this deal, the international community will be able to verify that the Islamic Republic of Iran will not develop a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:30:03] BLITZER: The President of the United States speaking out just after this deal was signed, after it was negotiated in Vienna, Austria.