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Wolf

Obama Talks to Netanyahu After Iran Deal; Reaction to the Iran Nuclear Deal; Fate of American Held by Iran Still Unclear; Authorities Step Up Search for el Chapo. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 14, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:00] BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because of this deal, the international community will be able to verify that the Islamic Republic of Iran will not develop a nuclear weapon.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The president of the United States speaking out just after this deal was signed, after it was negotiated in Vienna, Austria.

I want to go to our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta. He's getting new word.

The president, I take it, just had a phone conversation with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. What do we know about that?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. As you might expect, the global sales pitch is on for President Obama. He's spoken with a number of foreign leaders today, including the prime minister of Great Britain, David Cameron; the chancellor from Germany, Angela Merkel; the French president, Francois Hollande. But the toughest call of the day no doubt about it, Wolf, is the phone call that President Obama had earlier this morning with the Israeli Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu. You can read between the lines of this readout provided by the White House that this was a stern phone conversation. The president says he told the prime minister that today's agreement on the nuclear issue will not diminish our concern regarding Iran's support for terrorism and threats towards Israel. That's a clear indication, Wolf, that that is something that has not been resolved in terms of the Israeli point of view. Prime Minister Netanyahu, as you saw earlier, has already blasted this deal as dangerous something and this will fail.

We should also point out in this readout, as well, it mentions that Secretary of Defense Ash Carter will be heading to Israel next week to continue to keep ties with Israel as best as they can be. Earlier this year, Prime Minister Netanyahu gave that speech to a joint meeting of Congress. That did not go over well inside the White House. The White House was openly criticizing Netanyahu for that speech. And it took many, many weeks to patch up that relationship as best as it could be patched up. I was at a speech that Vice President Joe Biden gave to members of the Jewish American community in Washington where the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. was there, and there was a lot of concern in that room that the White House is not on the same page as Israel. We talked to senior administration officials at the White House. They know where Benjamin Netanyahu stands on this issue. They don't expect these differences to be patched up. I suspect, Wolf, there will be other conversations between President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu in the days and weeks to come -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I'm sure it was a tough conversation. I would have loved to have heard it.

ACOSTA: Absolutely.

BLITZER: We'll be speaking shortly, by the way, with a former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren. He doesn't like this deal, either.

Jim Acosta, at the White House, thanks very much

Aaron David Miller is the vice president at the Woodrow Wilson International Center, spent more than two decades at the U.S. State Department as a Middle East negotiator and advisor.

What's your reaction to this deal, Aaron?

DAVID AARON MILLER, MIDDLE EAST ANALYST & VICE PRESIDENT FOR NEW INITIATIVES, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER & AUTHOR: I think the president got what he wanted and will, in fact, over the next decade get what he aimed for, which is a slower, smaller, more easily transparent and more easily verifiable Iranian nuclear program.

But I think also we paid a lot for what is essentially an arms control agreement and not a disarmament agreement, and therein lies the problem. With the arrangement -- I mean, think about it -- in exchange for a weapon the Iranians don't have, a decision they haven't made to weaponize, they'll reap billions in sanctions. We've essentially legitimized their right to enrich. They know how to master the fuel cycle. And at the end of the process -- look, 10 years isn't a long time. At the end of the process, they will have an option as well as the capacity to weaponize should they choose to do. So I'm not arguing they will. And to boot you have an Iran rising in the region and those dollars, even though oil is a lot less expensive than it is now, and the Iranian dollar doesn't trade as much, that revenue goes a long way towards supporting Hezbollah, Assad, Iraqi Shia militias. So, you know, the agreement works for the president. There will be no preemptive Israeli military strike, no need for an American one. There will be an enormous amount of adulation for the accord. But, again, it doesn't come without a cost. We have to be very clear about what those casts are.

BLITZER: Because the Iranians now, forget about the nuclear side of this, let's assume it's been frozen for 10 or 15 years, whatever, they'll get $200 billion or maybe even more, and they will be able to use that. The great fear, the critics say, is they're use it for Hamas, Hezbollah, Bashar al Assad's regime, Houthies, and others opposed to the United States and the West as well.

MILLER: I think that's right. The truth is, for the president's legacy, transaction isn't enough. For this to be a transformative deal, the nature of the regime, its repression at home, the four Americans it held, its expansionist policies abroad have to change, and the reality is, who knows? It may change but it won't change any time soon. And that, in essence, is part of the problem.

BLITZER: Some have suggested this may be one of those historic moments like Nixon's opening up to China. Do you agree that?

[13:35:04] MILLER: I don't. I see -- I mean, there were so many reasons the Chinese had to reorient their relations. And, look, we've worked out a reasonable relationship with China. And the reality is Iran is sitting in a broken, angry, dysfunctional and very volatile region of the world. So, no, the rules of the Cold War with the former Soviet Union and the Chinese simply don't apply in this particular situation. I mean, the alternatives, Wolf, more sanctions, tougher negotiating, possible threat of force. We will never know whether any of these things could have worked, but we need to live and at least recognize the costs of the deal we've signed.

BLITZER: David Aaron Miller, thanks for coming in.

MILLER: Always a pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: Still ahead, "a stunning historic mistake," that's how the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is describing the deal with Iran. We'll bring you more Israeli reaction when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special coverage of the nuclear deal with Iran. Israel has condemned the deal in no uncertain terms. The Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the world is a most much dangerous place today than it was yesterday, and he adds Israel will not be bound by what he calls a bad deal.

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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: In a decade, this deal will give an unreformed, unrepentant and far richer terrorist regime the capacity to produce many nuclear bombs, in fact, an entire nuclear arsenal with the means to deliver it. What a stunning, historic mistake.

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[13:40:05] BLITZER: The former Israeli ambassador the United States, Michael Oren, is joining us live from Tel Aviv. He's the author of a brand new, frank memoir entitled "Ally, My Journey across the American/Israeli Divide."

Mr. Ambassador, thanks for joining us.

Does this deal, for all practical purposes, put any Israeli military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities off the table for years to come?

MICHAEL OREN, MEMBER, ISRAELI KNESSET & FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S. & AUTHOR: Always good to be with you. Wolf. Thank you for having me on.

Israel's policy was and will remain all options are on our table. Israel has a duty, it has the right, it has the capability to defend itself against the Iranian nuclear program. And the prime minister is speaking for the entire people of Israel, saying that we have that right, we have that duty and, if we have to stand alone, we will.

BLITZER: What does that mean "stand alone"? Does that military option to do to the Iran nuclear facilities, what Israel did in the early '80s, to the Iraqi nuclear reactor, what it did many years later to the Syrian nuclear reactor, go ahead and launch air strikes and destroy them, is that option still out there?

OREN: Well, I won't go into tactical operational details on international television, Wolf, but Israel, we have the capability, we have a military that's more than twice as large as the French and British militaries combined. Of course, we don't have aircraft carriers, we don't have strategic bombers like the United States, but we can and will defend ourselves.

BLITZER: Was it a mistake? Some Israeli critics say -- and you watch what's going on in Israel more closely than I do -- for Israel not to have launched that military strikes over these last several years? Because, as you know, there was a call for Israel to do so from with Israel?

OREN: Well, history will judge us. I was present in the fall of 2012 when Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu drew that bomb, you remember, with the fuse coming out of it at the General Assembly that said that Iran could not go beyond a certain red line in its enrichment of uranium. And I was in the room right after that speech when President Obama called Prime Minister Netanyahu and thanked him for giving him time and space to work out a diplomatic arrangement. Unfortunately, those talks went on behind Israel's back. We did not know about those talks. And I think the prime minister is speaking not just for himself or even for the government. He's speaking for the people of Israel, including people who oppose Netanyahu. Everybody here agrees this is a bad deal.

BLITZER: How bad is the U.S./Israeli relationship right now?

OREN: Well, the U.S./Israeli relationship is very wide. It's Congress and Israel, the people and Israel. Between the White House and Israel, we've got some serious damage to repair and to restore relations and a sense of trust. Trust has been hurt here. Again, in a country where nobody agrees on everything. I'm in Knesset, Wolf, and believe me, we argue about everything. Today, right, left, up and down, Arab and Jew, everybody agreed this is a bad deal. And here you have the president of the United States saying this is a good deal. So there is an obvious divide that we have to bridge.

BLITZER: Michael Oren is the former Israeli ambassador to the United States, now a member of the Israeli parliament, the Israeli Knesset.

Thanks, Mr. Ambassador, for joining us.

OREN: Thank you.

BLITZER: We'll have more Israeli reaction throughout the day. Mark Regev, the chief spokesman for prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, will be among my guests in "The Situation Room," 5:00 p.m. eastern.

Up next, the still very unclear fate of four American citizens being held in Iran. Will this nuclear deal pave the way for their situations to be addressed? We'll hear from family and friends about their lingering concerns. Stay with us.

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[13:47:07] BLITZER: While in this new nuclear deal with Iran may be a new chapter in the relationship between the West and Iran, there's still a lot of other issues that need to be resolved.

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JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Certainly, we continue to call on Iran to immediately release the detained U.S. citizens. These Americans have remained in our thoughts throughout this negotiation and we will continue to work for their safe and swift return. And we urge Iran to bring our missing Americans home as well.

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BLITZER: The four Americans being held by Iran include "The Washington Post" reporter, Jason Rezaian; Christian pastor, Saeed Abedini; former Marine, Amir Hekmati; and retired FBI agent, Robert Levinson. They're all American citizens being held in America right now.

I'm joined by Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee. He has representing the Hekmati family in the U.S. Congress. Also joining us is David Levinson, Robert Levinson's son.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Congressman, let's begin with you.

Are you hopeful as a result of this deal Amir Hekmati, the other Americans, will be released?

REP. DAN KILDEE, (D), MICHIGAN: I'm hopeful because I think Iran has to understand that for the world, the American people and the U.S. Congress to fully consider the merits of this agreement, they need to take a step towards the global community. And one tangible way for them to demonstrate their seriousness on this matter is to release the innocent Americans they hold. So I think it's an opportunity for us to call upon Iran to take that step and I hope they carefully consider that.

BLITZER: Do you support the deal, Congressman?

KILDEE: I'm going to weigh the merits of the deal. I'll measure it based on whether I think it makes the world a safer place. I think Secretary Kerry has done a remarkable job of getting us to this place but I can't erase from my mind when considering the deal Iran's other behaviors, and that includes the fact they continue to hold the Americans. It's not something that I think needs to be conflated. But I'll consider it carefully. I call on other members of Congress to consider the deal, not their own press releases, but the actual when measuring its value.

BLITZER: Is it fair to say, Congressman, if Amir Hekmati, the other Americans, are released, the president will have your vote?

KILDEE: My vote will be based on whether the agreement is a safer place. The legitimacy of the agreement will be affected by Iran's other behavior. I have had to force myself to separate the issues. We don't want to trade the freedom of these Americans for something at the negotiating table. And it would be dangerous to conflate the two. But Iran has to be measured by all its behavior. I'm generally supportive, but I'll wait and see the full analysis.

BLITZER: David, your father is the longest-held American in Iran. What's your reaction to this deal that was announced today?

DAVID LEVINSON, SON OF ROBERT LEVINSON: Well, we desperately want our father home. It's been eight years, and even one more day is too long without him. What we believe is that this deal is not the end of discussions between the Iranian government and the United States government, but merely the beginning. Hopefully, this leads to my father's case being a priority and being at the center of discussions from here on out. It needs to be a priority and they need to work together to bring him home.

[13:50:27] BLITZER: This program, David, is being seen around the world, including in Iran, to some selected people over there. What's your message to the leadership in Iran?

LEVINSON: Well, I would say that, please, just on a humanitarian basis, please help us to find my father, to bring him home. My family is not political. We have no agenda beyond just finding my dad and making sure that he can live the rest of his life out in peace with my family and other loved ones.

BLITZER: Congressman, how is Amir Hekmati's family dealing with this?

KILDEE: I smoke with his sister, Sarah Hekmati, earlier this morning. Obviously, they are tense. And there's some reasons to be hopeful, and we're holding on to that. Hopefully, as David Levinson said, hopefully, this is the beginning of the discussions. If it makes the world a safer place, maybe it also encourages Iran to take other steps that would bring them into the international community.

BLITZER: So what's your message to the Iranian leadership?

KILDEE: If they want Congress to take them seriously, there are other things that they can do. I am very focused on the release of Amir Hekmati, Saeed Abedini and Jason Rezaian. And give us all the information and help us find Robert Levinson. If they do that, that would make a difference in the way the world sees them.

BLITZER: One final question, David. Do you have any indication that your dad is still alive?

LEVINSON: Well, several years ago, we received that video of him that was basically a hostage video. A few months later we received photos of him in the orange jumpsuit. Up until that point, people had told us that he passed on and we needed to move on, but my father has proved that he's resilient. And I know him as the most dedicated, resilient and determined person I've ever known. There is no doubt in my mind that he is there, that he's waiting for us, and that the United States and Iran can work together to bring him home. Where there is a will, there is a way. And the two countries can work together to make that happen.

BLITZER: David Levinson, thank you very much. We hope that you're reunited with your dad very soon.

Congressman Kildee, thank you for joining us. Thank you for keeping this issue alive.

KILDEE: Thank you.

BLITZER: I know the Hekmati and all of the other families are grateful to you.

KILDEE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Up next, the leaders of one of the world's deadliest drug cartels still on the loose right now. Mexican officials are trying to desperately to find him. For the latest, we'll go to the scene to get more on the escape of the man called el Chapo. Stay with us.

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[13:51:58] BLITZER: Let's quickly get to other important news right now.

Authorities are stepping up the search for el Chapo Guzman, the notorious drug kingpin who escaped from prison over the weekend. The Mexican government is now offering a $3.8 million reward for his capture. He made his way to freedom through a mile-long elaborately built tunnel that started in the shower room and lead out of the prison and now the head of the prison has been fired.

Let's bring in Ioan Grillo, a journalist, the author of the book "El Narco." He's based in Mexico City.

Ioan, thanks very much for joining us.

Do you think el Chapo Guzman has fled Mexico? Do you think he's back in his home state of Sinaloa? What do you think is going on? IOAN GRILLO, JOURNALIST & AUTHOR: It's very hard to predict his

movements. But looking at my experience covering this for about 15 years in Mexico, you find these drug traffickers and although they have the money to sit in the Caribbean, you find moat of them end up going back home to where they grew up, to where they know people who can protect them and move around those areas. So I would suspect he might have gone to his home state of Sinaloa. He grew up in villages where people have been trafficking drugs for a century, among heroin drug traffickers. Right now, people are composing songs celebrating how great it is that he escaped prison in the areas where he could be.

BLITZER: How elaborate was this prison escape?

GRILLO: It was extremely elaborate and it was -- I mean, to see somebody escape from supposedly the top security prison but through a tunnel a mile long with lights, with an air vent, with a motorcycle and rails, it makes the government look dumb. It makes the government look useless. If they cannot protect or hold in the biggest criminal in the country who's wanted by many U.S. courts, who had a $5 million price on his head. If they cannot keep him in prison, how can they protect the population from the thousands of gunmen there on the streets? And in many states people are used to seeing people drive around with pickup trucks and A.K.-47. How can they feel protected by them if their boss can't be held in a prison cell?

BLITZER: Do you think he's going to be out for a long time or do you think they are going to capture him?

GRILLO: Well, let's see. He survived for 13 years before. He had protection from many people. Unfortunately, for many people -- you know, he's a drug trafficker. His gunmen have killed many people. The people in ghetto and poor country villages see him as a hero and many will protect him and not snitch on him, and that allows him to stay alive.

BLITZER: Ioan Grillo, thank you for joining us.

That's it for me. Thanks for watching.

The news continues next on CNN.