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Four Marines Killed In Shooting; Three Marines Publicly Identified; Shooter's Background Offers Few Clues; Shooter Was Said To Be Good Kid And Great Student; Gunman's Motive Still Mystery; Abdulazeez Recently Traveled To Middle East; FBI Terror Investigation into Chattanooga; Gunman Used AK-47. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 17, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

One day after a shooting that killed four U.S. Marines in Chattanooga, Tennessee, there are now more questions than answers.

But here's what we do know about the terror investigation unfolding here in the United States. Today, we learned the father of the shooter, Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez, was previously investigated and he was cleared by federal authorities in a terror finance investigation.

Meanwhile, investigators are still trying to figure out why Abdulazeez, who a number of people describe as an all-American boy, pulled up to a suburban strip mall in a rented silver convertible Mustang and then opened fire on a U.S. military recruiting center. One U.S. Marine recruiter was wounded there. Over the next half hour or so Abdulazeez drove seven miles away to a Navy operational support center where he killed four U.S. Marines.

During what was described as a harrowing gun battle with local police, he rammed the gates surrounding the center and was eventually shot dead. Sources tell CNN, Abdulazeez held police at bay for some time with an AK-47 style weapon. While he did get a DUI, driving drunk under the influence, an April charge. Abdulazeez had no prior run-ins with the law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BILL HASLAM (R), TENNESSEE: Well, I think the concerning thing here is this is somebody that wasn't on anybody's radar. There were no set of circumstances where people said, OK, we need to be particularly wary about this individual or this circumstance. And I think that's maybe what's even more -- what's the most concerning to law enforcement. And then, to people in positions like mine is there was nothing that would predict that this could have happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That's the governor of Tennessee, Governor Bill Haslam. Investigators are searching for a motive. But this hour, we will

discuss why terrorism is certainly atop the agenda. One clear possibility, how his blog may actually have provided some clues and why his recent trip overseas may have played a significant factor.

But first, we want to remember the victims of this tragedy. As we mentioned, four U.S. Marines were killed during the shooting rampage. CNN has -- CNN has now identified three of them.

Our Senior Washington Correspondent Joe Johns is with me here in our Washington studio. Joe, a very sad day for the families, a sad day, indeed, for the nation. Tell us what we know about these four U.S. Marines.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's very true. And we're now sort of getting the full measure of this awful event and it's affecting people up and down the east coast.

We can publicly identify three of the four Marines who were killed in those attacks in the Chattanooga area. They are Thomas Sullivan, Skip Wells and David Wyatt. First, let's talk about Sullivan. He's a Marine gunnery sergeant who reportedly was shot to death at the naval reserve support center, 40 years old. He's reported to be an Iraq War, a Purple Heart recipient, reported to be from the state of Massachusetts around the Springfield area. Believe to have been in the military for more than a decade and a half. Apparently two tours of duty in Iraq. There are reports that he worked, in the past, as a Marine recruiter.

Now, let's talk about the names of two of the other three Marines who were killed. For Skip Wells, said to be 21 years old from the Marietta, Georgia area and apparently straight out of boot camp, as far as we can tell. David Wyatt is said to be 38 years old from Tennessee, apparently around the Chattanooga area, described as a husband and a father. Outpourings of sympathy for each one of those Marines along with the fourth Marine whose name has not been released by CNN at this time, Wolf.

BLITZER: A very sad day indeed. The mourning underway right now for these four U.S. Marines. Joe, thank you.

We're also learning more about the background of the shooter. CNN's Victor Blackwell is on the ground for us in Chattanooga. He's speaking with those who knew Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez personally.

Our Justice Reporter Evan Perez is here in Washington. He's looking to Abdulazeez's background as well.

Victor, we've heard a lot of reports that he seemed to be a pretty normal young man growing up in Tennessee. Had anyone noticed any changes in him recently? What are you learning about that?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, when you ask friends, former classmates, coaches about Mohammad Abdulazeez, they use terms like all American kid. They say he totally fit in. His former coach said that, you know, he was the nicest kid that he'd ever coached. But, obviously, there's a contradiction, right, because what happened here in Chattanooga yesterday is not the action of the nicest kid or the all American smart guy, your really good friend.

[13:05:00] Look, we looked back about three months to that DUI arrest in which an officer says that when he came upon this car, Abdulazeez was driving erratically, stopping at green lights. And when he went to question him, he smelled alcohol and marijuana and there was a white powder under his nose. Abdulazeez told the officer that he had crushed caffeine pills and snorted them. You know, he's been described as religious but not radical. But religious Muslims don't use those types of substances and it's -- there's an inconsistency there. So, while friends and relatives and coaches are not saying that they've noticed any big change, there were obviously things that they did not notice that would have spoken more possibly to what led up to the actions of yesterday.

BLITZER: Evan, we know that Abdulazeez was born in Kuwait. His parents were Jordanian citizens who were living in Kuwait. He was born in 1990. And 1991, shortly after the first Gulf War, the family left Kuwait for the United States, became a naturalized U.S. citizen. But he wasn't on any terror watch lists right now. He did have some overseas travel in recent years. What do we know about that?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. That's definitely one of the focuses of the FBI investigation today. They've talked to the Jordanian authorities to get a better sense of his travels there. Obviously, because he has family ties, it wouldn't be terribly unusual for him to have visited that country in recent years. And we know that there's been multiple trips back to Jordan.

The Kuwaiti government also said that he traveled there in 2010, spent a couple months then ended up in Jordan shortly thereafter. The Jordanian government is still trying to -- says that they're still struggling to put together a good -- a good sense of exactly what -- when he visited and what he was doing. The FBI is very much interested in knowing who he was associating with there. Was there anybody who, perhaps, might have helped radicalize him? That might explain what happens -- what happened yesterday in Chattanooga.

As you mentioned, he was not on any of the databases that the FBI uses to track potential or suspected supporters of terrorist groups. And this is -- this is exactly the kind of suspect that has worried FBI officials for very long.

BLITZER: There are a lot of reports out there now, including the "Wall Street Journal", Evan, as you know, the "New York Times" saying that last year, he spent seven months in Jordan. What do we know about that?

PEREZ: The Jordanian government has not yet confirmed that he spent -- how much time he spent there. We do know they said that he made several trips to Jordan in the past -- in the last few years. And I believe one of those tripped ended last year, so it's not clear exactly all the timeline of that. That's something the authorities are still trying to put together, Wolf. BLITZER: And, Victor, is there any indication, based on everything

you're hearing from friends of his, associates, family members, investigators who are there with you in Chattanooga right now, when he might have become radicalized? Because we know that it was only relatively recently that he actually grew that beard, right?

BLACKWELL: Yes, the reports that we're hearing is that the beard is new, and we can see the photographs, some of the MMA (ph) photographs, of course the high school photographs in which he's clean shaven. I think there is a lot of attention that's being played to these blog posts. One that mentions the old tale of the blind man and the elephant in which you can feel parts of the elephant but not get an idea of what it is totally. He compares that to a Muslim's understanding of Islam. And writing, and I'm paraphrasing here, in which Muslims can, in some ways, believe that they understand Islam but don't get all of the aspects of it. And it could be parsing there but I know that investigators are looking deeply into those blog posts. They are aware of it. Although, there is no, at this time, confirmation that he wrote those. But that is part of this investigation.

BLITZER: All right, Victor, stand by. We're going to get back to you. Evan, we'll get back to you as well.

The driving question today, as it has been after all of these kinds of events, is simply this, why? What was the killer's motive? We should learn more from a news conference. It's about to take place two hours from about -- two hours from now in Chattanooga.

Meanwhile, the family home is being searched for evidence that may help answer the motive questions. CNN has also learned that the father was, twice, investigated by federal authorities years ago for sending money to what was described as a Middle East charity, but it was suspected of having terrorist connections. The father was cleared on both of those occasions and the matter was eventually dropped.

There is no indication Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez himself was on any terror watch list or anything along those lines. About all we can say for sure is that he had grown this beard, as we noted, travelled in recent years to Kuwait as well as Jordan. His only known brush with the law was a DUI arrest back in April. He was expected to appear in court on July 30th. Obviously, that's not going to happen now.

[13:10:03] Still, the FBI is working the case as a possible terrorist attack, although they have not ruled out anything, at least not yet. The fact that Abdulazeez killed four U.S. Marines on the last day of Ramadan is consistent with ISIS directives to aspiring jihadists.

Let's discuss what's going on with our panel. Joining us, our Law Enforcement Analyst Tom Fuentes, our CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank and CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kimberly Dozier.

Tom, let's talk about what you hearing because I know you're well sourced in these kinds of matters. What's going on?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANYLIST: Right now, they're still, Wolf, looking into, was he inspired directly by ISIS? Is there a real connection or is it just loosely that he kind of supported it and thought that he would take on an arm of the U.S. military, these two recruiting -- or one recruiting and one training facility.

But the other thing they're looking at is, are there more people involved? Who got the car? Did he rent the car himself? What credit card? Are other people connected to that? Where did he get the firearms? Did somebody buy those on his behalf or help him get the weaponry and the ammunition that went with it? We're talking about, yet again, an assault rifle used in this attack. So, that's all part of the investigation, whether additional people will get charged. Very similar to Oklahoma City where they had McVeigh and later discovered a couple of additional accomplices that helped him carry out the Oklahoma City bombing.

BLITZER: Yes, there's one suspicion. He wanted that rented car, that Ford Mustang convertible, so the top would be down so he could start shooting much more easily with the top down. And that may have been the reason he rented the car.

But, Kimberly, what are you hearing?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, U.S. officials have been telling me, stop thinking about these people who follow ISIS, Al Qaeda or AQAP as having a specific allegiance to one specific group. They say they could be admirers of all of them. When you look at some of the blog post, which haven't been definitively proven to belong to Abdulazeez, but they are carefully talking about Islam, in general terms, and following jihad in an active way. They talk about the followers of Mohammed taking up arms and actually bringing about the caliphate on the ground. So, he's left us clues to what might have been motivating him.

Also, look back to his yearbook post when he talked about his name causing national security alerts. This is a kid that, from a young age, has had issues with being singled out for being Muslim. And if your dad had been on the FBI terrorist watch list and had been questioned by the FBI, you can bet that that was a subject of household discussion that stayed with him.

BLITZER: Yes, I'm sure it had an impact on him as well. What are you hearing, Paul?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, what we haven't seen, in this case, is that he went out of his way to brand this for any particular terrorist group, as Kimberly was saying. That he didn't pledge allegiance, for example, to Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi on social media --

BLITZER: He's the leader of ISIS.

CRUICKSHANK: -- just before carrying out the attack. We saw that in the attempted attack in Garland, Texas where one of the attackers, Elton Simpson, actually pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi just minutes before the attack. We saw that in that attack in Denmark in February and also in the Paris attack with Amedy Coulibaly who attacked that kosher market. He actually recorded a video just before launching that attack where he wanted ISIS to take ownership for it. We've seen none of this this time around.

BLITZER: So, no one has claimed credit and there's been no videos, martyrdom videos, Paul, or anything along those lines that have been released?

CRUICKSHANK: There's been nothing. No formal claim of responsibility from any terrorist group. There's been a degree of celebration from pro-ISIS fan boys on Twitter. That was inevitable, obviously. But no formal claim.

BLITZER: And no video because that would -- because, very often, in a situation like this, if this was formal, let's say, ISIS or Al Qaeda or whatever type of terrorist operation, they may have had a video, a suicide video, ready to be released, right?

DOZIER: Well, the scary thing about this is if he was radicalized overseas, it's as if he's learned, by watching the news coverage, about what not to do when he got back here. Don't follow ISIS on Twitter. Don't establish an online presence that draws the FBI's attention. Go low profile. Perhaps that's what he did.

BLITZER: But a few days ago -- only a few days ago, he did post these -- apparently, if you believe these two blogs are his. Most experts do believe they are. He did post these two blogs in which he spoke in sort of paranoid ways, very religious ways as well.

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's true but just, you know, speaking favorably of the caliphate, of ISIS is one thing. And to carry that to an actual armed attack on facilities is another. And the problem, we've talk about many times, is how does the FBI read somebody's mind if he doesn't communicate to someone else that he's going to do the attack? We need, you know, to have some other information go public that he's going operational rather than just supporting them in theory.

[13:15:02] BLITZER: What does it -- what does your gut tell you now, Paul? Because you've studied this for a long time. What happened here?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, this certainly has all the hallmarks of an Islamist terrorist attack. The timing, last day of Ramadan, with ISIS calling for a surge of terrorism during Ramadan, ten times the rewards before the end of Ramadan. The target, a military targets. ISIS, in their propaganda, singling out military targets. A string of ISIS- inspired plots in recent months in the United States against military targets being thwarted by the FBI.

But we don't know whether he did have allegiance to ISIS. In any of these blog postings, all he's saying is that -- according to his version, most Muslims don't understand that the companions of the Prophet Mohammed were jihadists as well. So there's no sort of allegiance to ISIS or al Qaeda or anything like that in these blog postings.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: What worries me is that what -- how this will be perceived by the public though is a Islam militant attack. And I'm already seeing among friends in the national security community a rising sense of anti-Islamic sentiment. I'm worried that that will feed into more attacks like this and undercut the efforts to reach out to the American Muslim community and include them rather than make them feel isolated as it seem this is young man felt.

BLITZER: This man seemed to have everything going for him. A graduate of the University of Tennessee Chattanooga, an engineering degree, had a job, seemed to be popular, good looking. All of a sudden, this happens and people are wondering how possibly this could happen.

We're just getting this information, Tom. Jordanian authorities are telling us that an individual with the same name as this Chattanooga shooter, Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez, did travel in an out of Jordan several times over the years. Several times. The traveler always used a U.S. passport, not a Jordanian passport -- he was a naturalized U.S. citizen -- during these trips. That's what Jordanian officials are telling CNN.

They're also saying they're struggling to ascertain more information because, in the words of one Jordanian official, the name is very vague. It's a three-part name, so we're facing difficulty in getting to the bottom of it, but they're working very, very closely. They're also trying to figure out when exactly he was born. The word is he was born in Kuwait of Jordanian parents back in 1990. The family left Kuwait shortly after the first Gulf War to come to the United States in 1991.

FUENTES: Right, and the U.S. government, in general, has an outstanding close relationship with the Jordanian government, but particularly in this case the FBI office in Amman, Jordan, works very closely with Jordanian intelligence and Jordanian law enforcement, has for more -- for decades. I oversaw that office when I ran FBI international operations. So if Jordan gets anything whatsoever or had they gotten anything before, if he'd have come up on their radar as meeting with the wrong people, the FBI would have been told about it, the U.S. government would have been told about it. The CIA would have been told about it long ago. It just that apparently he didn't.

And Jordanian -- Jordan, I should say, has not been a hot bed of recruiting. It's a very secular country with the exception of Zarqawi, who came for Jordan. But I've talked to the police officers that worked on Zarqawi when he was 12 years old, he was already a young psychopath. And he was not an Islam scholar, he was just a murderous thug.

BLITZER: And there's no doubt that the U.S. and Jordan have very close relations.

FUENTES: They're close.

BLITZER: Military, strategic, intelligence, law enforcement cooperation. The U.S. has a very good friend in the Jordanian government.

FUENTES: Exactly.

BLITZER: So I'm sure they're working very closely on this matter.

All right, guys, thanks very much.

Still to come, where did Mohammad Youssuf Abdulazeez get the firearms used in yesterday's killing spree in Tennessee? You may be surprised that these types of weapons, especially this one, a favorite among terrorists, is now made right here in the United States.

And what was going on in the mind of the Chattanooga killer? A blog or two possibly written by the gunman providing some clues to the big question why. We'll have a closer look at that and all the news when we come back.

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[13:23:08] BLITZER: Welcome back.

Among the many unanswered questions in the Chattanooga, Tennessee, shootings is where the gunman obtained the AK-47-style weapon. A U.S. company, by the way, recently began making and selling them under the Kalashnikov brand. I'm joined now by Matthew Fogg, he's the former chief deputy of the U.S. Marshals Service. He's an expert in this area.

Matthew, thanks very much for joining us.

He had a large amount after ammunition and 30 round clips. Getting a gun like this, a sophisticated AK-47 style weapon, how difficult is that?

MATTHEW FOGG, FORMER CHIEF DEPUTY, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: It's kind of difficult to pick up a weapon like that. But, again, he could have gotten it from someone -- someone could have sold it to him. The bottom line is, he wanted maximum firepower. With that type of weapon, close, you could get a lot of rounds off in a short period of time. It's very maneuverable. You can go from semi to automatic. So, you know, it's -- it's the right weapon for if you want to have maximum terror input.

BLITZER: The -- the only arrest -- or, not arrest, but the only charge he was facing was a DUI charge. He was supposed to go before a judge on July 30th. That was back in April. If you're facing a charge like that, can you go out and buy a weapon like this one?

FOGG: Well, that's been the question, Wolf. Sometimes people, they're saying, if you've got a felony arrest or something like that stands on your record, you shouldn't be able to. But a DUI, I'm not exactly sure if he could have went on and just got that weapon with that type of charge hanging over his head.

BLITZER: Were you -- are you surprised that he was on no terror watch list, no law enforcement list, had never raised any suspicions given the fact that he was traveling back and forth to the Middle East or anything along those lines? FOGG: Right.

BLITZER: Because usually in a situation like this, there are some indications by friends or family that maybe there's something wrong.

FOGG: That's true. That's true. But, again, he had no contact with the law, nothing wrong. So again, just his name, I mean, maybe that might have raised a flag. But there again --

BLITZER: But you're not supposed to just profile --

FOGG: But that -- that's --

BLITZER: A Muslim or Arabic name like that.

FOGG: That's exactly right. A lot of people are saying that's the first thing that comes out of people's mouth, well, you look at his name, should you profile him? No, absolutely not. I'm not -- I'm not surprised. I mean the fact is, is that you've got this guy that just probably maybe planned it but he knew to stay under the radar. Make certain of that.

[13:25:11] BLITZER: When you say "planned it," because there's a lot of suspicion out there that, you know, he knew exactly where he was going.

FOGG: Right.

BLITZER: He had sophisticated weapons -- with a sophisticated weapon. Lots of ammunition.

FOGG: That's right.

BLITZER: He knew to go from one U.S. military target to a second U.S. military target less than ten miles away. All of this taking place within a half an hour. And the suspicion is, he probably rehearsed this.

FOGG: That's right.

BLITZER: He cased out these two places over the past several days or even weeks.

FOGG: And I would say, yes, he knew exactly where he was going. He knew what he wanted to do. When you've got somebody like that, a lone wolf, sometimes that's very hard to detect because he's working by himself, he knows exactly what he wants to do. And if they find out later that he's connected with other people, they can, you know, narrow in on this thing. But in this case, it's very difficult to try to figure out if he had that plan and he did it, he carried it out all the way through, and he knew he had enough firepower that even if the police came upon him, that's a lot of fire power even with the police to have to confront.

BLITZER: And I'm sure they're looking at all the videotape --

FOGG: That's right.

BLITZER: From all the closed circuit cameras that may have been at these two locations over the past several days to see if he actually showed up there, whether in a car or walked by, to see what was going on. I'm sure they're looking at all that videotape right now.

FOGG: That's exactly right.

BLITZER: All right, Matthew, thanks very much.

This just coming in to CNN. We have now confirmed the identity of the fourth U.S. Marine in yesterday's shooting in Chattanooga. Carson Holmquist was from Granstburg, Wisconsin, currently lived in Jacksonville, North Carolina, according to this FaceBook post. There's a picture of this U.S. Marine. We're going to bring you more details on this U.S. Marine, the three other Marines who were shot and killed in Chattanooga yesterday as well. Our deepest, deepest condolences to the families.

A blog surfacing online possibly from the Chattanooga killer. What it says, what action it may urge other Muslims to take. We're going to have more on this part of the story when we come back.

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