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John Kerry Defends Iran Nuclear Deal in Congress; Has Death of Mullah Mohammed Omar Been Confirmed; DuBose Family Attorney John Kerry's Tense Exchange with Rep. Ed Royce; Campus Police Officer Indicted in "Horrible" Shooting of Sam DuBose; Mark O'Mara Holds Press Conference. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 29, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: They're often intervening earlier than they might have otherwise to make sure they act before anyone acts out in a violent way. Certainly the volume of this problem is going up. At the same time, even though I think the volume of the al Qaeda threats has come down with our success in taking out leadership, I still am concerned about al Qaeda's desire to go after our aircraft and go after the big high-profile attack.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And one final question before I let you go. The Afghan Intelligence Service apparently confirming that Mullah Mohammed Omar died two years ago, the former leader of the Taliban. Has U.S. intelligence also confirmed that?

SCHIFF: We have not confirmed that. It's something that I certainly have been talking with the intelligence agencies to get a sense of what our best dying many times over and it's possible this could be accurate. But I don't have the information at this time and, of course, the big question, Wolf, is if this does turn out to be true or if he is so incapacitated or isolated that he can't effectively deny the rumor, what's the impact on the nascent negotiation with the Afghan government as well as this risk that Taliban people leave and join ISIS. If he is dead or otherwise incapacitated, that may cause these Taliban to join ISIS.

BLITZER: Adam Schiff, the Congressman from California, the ranking member of the Intelligence Committee, thanks very much.

Up next, we'll get a different perspective, the Republican view of the Iran deal. The chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Ed Royce, is standing by. We'll discuss with him after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:35:57] BLITZER: As Secretary of State John Kerry hits Capitol Hill once again to make the case for the Iran nuclear deal, he is being closely scrutinized. Listen to this exchange between the secretary of state and the chairman of the committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED ROYCE, (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: We're presuming Iran is going to change its behavior.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: No, we're not.

ROYCE: And that behavior did not change last weekend when they were chanting, again, "death to America."

KERRY: Mr. Chairman, please, with all due respect. We're not presuming any such thing. There's no presumption about what Iran will or won't do. There's one objective, make sure they can't get a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now is the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Ed Royce, of California.

Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us.

A little testy exchange there. I take it you're adamantly opposed to this nuclear deal. The secretary didn't convince you to vote from favor of it?

ROYCE: Well, as I've said, Wolf, the issue I raise is that in 10-plus years, this deal expires. So we'd give permanent sanctions relief for a temporary setback in their program. That doesn't sound like a good negotiation strategy from my standpoint.

BLITZER: Earlier today, the secretary was back, this time testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Chairman John McCain. He had this exchange with the defense secretary, Ash Carter. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R-AZ), CHAIRMAN, SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Do you, Secretary Carter, believe that Iran will change its behavior as a result if this agreement is finalized? And have you seen any indication of that?

ASHTON CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I have not, Mr. Chairman. And speaking just for my own judgment, I don't foresee that or have any reason to foresee that. That is why it's important that the agreement be verifiable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you sense any daylight between that answer from the defense secretary as opposed to what you've been hearing from Secretary of State John Kerry, who apparently is a little bit more upbeat that maybe this deal will, in fact, more moderate Iran's policies in the region?

ROYCE: Well, one of the things you heard Ash Carter, our secretary of defense, say, two weeks ago, was as he explained why he was concerned about this late addition into the agreement on lifting the arms embargo an ICBM, he says "The 'I' stands for intercontinental," as launched from -- from Iran to the United States. So he's made it very clear that he is somewhat concerned about the fact that, at the 11th hour, somehow, into this agreement come, Wolf, something none of us expected, which is the ability now for Iran in eight years time to be able to have the arms embargo on their ballistic missile program lifted, so that Russia can help them with that program. That's a concern.

And another aspect that I think is concerning to him and to all of us is that the 12 questions that the IAEA asked, because they had a thousand pages that showed the bomb work Iran had already done, those were supposed to be answered. Those are still not answered. That's why this site agreement is important to us. We're still in the process of sort of going through the information and trying to get to the bottom of just what Iran has actually committed to do that is verifiable.

BLITZER: You have a lot going on up there on Capitol Hill, Mr. Chairman. Thanks very much for joining us.

ROYCE: Thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: There's a breaking story out of Ohio we're following right now. A University of Cincinnati campus police officer has been indicted in the fatal shooting during a traffic stop. The Hamilton County prosecutor said moments ago the grand jury returned a murder indictment. He called the shooting "horrible."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:40:] JOSEPH DIETER, HAMILTON COUNTY, CINCINNATI, PROSECUTOR: This is the most asinine act I've ever seen a police officer make. Totally unwarranted. It was -- it's an absolute tragedy in the year 2015 that anyone would behave in this manner. It was senseless. And I met with the family just moments ago. It's just horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our national correspondent, Jason Carroll, is joining with us more.

Jason, first, we just got the video, to warn our viewers throughout that what they're about to see is disturbing.

We'll let it roll in its entirety and then you and I will talk about what we just saw. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFC. RAY TENSING, CAMPUS POLICE OFFICER, UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI: How's it going, man?

SAMUEL DUBOSE, SHOT BY CAMPUS POLICE OFFICER: All right. How's it going?

TENSING: Do you have your license on you?

DUBOSE: Yeah, what happened? What is the problem?

TENSING: Is this your car?

DUBOSE: Yeah.

TENSING: You're coming back from the casino.

DUBOSE: It's my car, why?

TENSING: You don't have a license plate on your car.

DUBOSE: It's in my glove box.

It's right here.

TENSING: OK. That's not where the front plate is supposed to go.

DUBOSE: I don't know that.

TENSING: You don't have to reach for it. It's OK. Do you have a license on you?

DUBOSE: Yes.

TENSING: What's that bottle on the floor there (INAUDIBLE).

DUBOSE: Bottle of what?

Aspirin.

TENSING: Do you have a license on you?

DUBOSE: Yes.

TENSING: OK, I'm going to ask you again, do you have your license?

DUBOSE: I have a license. You can take my name.

TENSING: You don't have your license on you? I'm asking a direct question. Do you have your license?

DUBOSE: I thought I did. What did you pull me over for?

TENSING: Again, the front tag.

DUBOSE: But it's not illegal to not have a front tag.

TENSING: Actually, it is. I'm going ask you again, do you have a license on you.

DUBOSE: I have a license. You can run my name.

TENSING: On you, though?

DUBOSE: I don't think I have it on me.

TENSING: Be straight up with me. Are you suspended?

DUBOSE: No, I'm not suspended.

TENSING: Why don't you have your license on you?

DUBOSE: I just don't know. I'm sorry.

TENSING: Where do you stay at?

DUBOSE: Right around the corner.

TENSING: Well, as far as figuring out if you can have a license, take your seat belt off.

DUBOSE: I didn't do nothing.

TENSING: Go ahead and take your seat belt off. Stop! Stop!

Shots fired! Shots fired!

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Did you get him?

TENSING: I don't know!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, Jason. Obviously, very disturbing in this particular case. Once again, a white police officer, a black driver. Take us through what we saw. It's obviously very, very disturbing and causing huge ramifications right now, especially after this murder indictment of the police officer.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Extremely difficult to watch. Just to recap what has happened here, what our viewers saw was the body cam video from University of Cincinnati police officer, Ray Tensing. He had just pulled over Samuel DuBose on July 29, pulled him over because he was missing a front license plate. Shortly thereafter, you can see he had questioned him several times about providing some information about his license. At one point, when he was moving for his seat belt, the officer opened fire. That's the long and the short of it.

But that's not what the officer told investigators. The officer told investigators he fired after he was dragged by DuBose in his car and then he fired. But you can see from the body cam video it doesn't show him being dragged in any way, shape of form.

DuBose's family didn't believe the police officer's account of what happened and really pressured local authorities there, including the Hamilton County prosecutor's office, to release that body cam video. They did that today. []13:40:00) And Joe Dieters, the Hamilton County prosecutor -- I have

to say, after listening to prosecutor for a number of years, I have never heard a prosecutor that angry and using that much emotion in describing what happened here. He all but called it a flat-out murder. He said it was senseless. He said that Mr. DuBose was subdued, he was not violent in any way, shape, or form. He said this was, quote, "completely unnecessary for something like this to occur." He called it asinine. He went on to say he feels sorry for the family and what they have lost. He feels sorry for the community simply because they had done so much to build good will between themselves and the community.

Once again, I want to make this clear, this is not Cincinnati P.D. we're talking about this is an officer from the University of Cincinnati, which is a different arm of law enforcement in the Cincinnati area.

But once again, Wolf, the prosecutor calling it a, quote, "chicken crap stop" saying there was no need for this officer to resort to violence. That officer, he said, would be treated like a murder suspect. A warrant for his arrest is already out.

I've also had an opportunity to speak to the families' attorney, Mark O'Mara, about all this. Even before this press conference was held, he had already started to get word about what would be shown on that body cam video, but even after seeing it, you can tell that -- even the prosecutor saying he was shocked by what he saw. Basically, saying Officer Ray Tensing had, quote, "no business" being a police officer -- Wolf?

BLITZER: You said Mark O'Mara. A lot of our viewers know Mark O'Mara. He's been a CNN analyst, obviously a well-known attorney. Which family is he representing?

CARROLL: He is representing members of Sam DuBose's family. And he is going to -- and we are also being told that members of the Sam DuBose family, that was the man who was shot and killed by Officer Ray Tensing, we are hearing they're expected to speak probably in about the next 20 minutes or so, so we should be hearing from them as well.

But once again, Wolf, I can't really impress how much -- I've heard prosecutors in the past. I've never heard a prosecutor speak with this type of language before in terms of dealing and referring to an officer of the law.

BLITZER: Let's listen to a little bit from the prosecutor. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIETER: We don't -- this doesn't happen in the United States, OK? This might happen in Afghanistan or somewhere. This just does not happen in the United States. People don't get shot for a traffic stop, unless they're violent towards the police officer, and he wasn't. He was simply slowly -- you're going to see it. He was simply slowly rolling away. That's all he did. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It is pretty shocking when you hear what's going on. And unfortunately, there have been several incidents as all of our viewers know in the United States in recent months and years involving these kinds of incidents.

You say there's a warrant out for this police officer's arrest right now. He's not under arrest yet, is that right?

CARROLL: Warrant out for his arrest --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Hold on one second. Hold, Jason.

Mark O'Mara, the attorney for the family of the driver, is now speaking out. Let's listen in.

MARK O'MARA, ATTORNEY FOR SAMUEL DUBOSE FAMILY: So we'll be working with them up here. So, yes, I'm the attorney.

Actually, a couple things to start with. First of all, not just because we got the result that we wanted was to vindicate Sam's reputation and who he is and who he was. I do really want to thank you Mr. Dieter's office and the law enforcement who did the investigation on this case in a number of ways. One, they did it quickly. And in a case like this, when the family is in so much pain, even to the extent there's evidence available that Mr. Dieter's office could not disclose because of the ongoing investigation, that still leaves the pain unattended. And, of course, when there's a vacuum of information, that's where all the speculation comes from. That's where the anger comes from. So, firstly, to thank Mr. Dieter's officer and law enforcement for having done a quick and thorough job in talking care of this.

Two -- and the family will echo this -- this is a very trying time for the family. That's obvious. It's also a trying time for the community, for Cincinnati. And because this is now getting the attention it's getting and it's a next chapter in a lot events that have happened similar to this where cop and citizen or cop and black interactions lead to tragedy, we want to make sure -- and the family is firmly behind -- that, though we understand the concerns in the community, we want those reactions to be completely peaceful.

Sam was a peaceful person. There have been some questions about how peaceful Sam was and I think those questions have now been put to rest when you look at that video. There was a suggestion of whatever, dragging the officer, the arrogance towards the officer, failure to comply or whatever. I think anyone who's looked at that video understands that Sam was who Sam always has been, that was peaceful and non-aggressive. We want his memory to remain intact as a peaceful person. And we do not want any violence, any anger to come out in a way that denigrates who he was and who we want him to be remembered as. We understand the emotions are tied with this. The family feels more than most the emotions of this loss but we want any reaction to be one maintaining the integrity of who Sam was and the peacefulness. That not only the family deserves as they continue their mourning but this is an opportunity now that Cincinnati has to do this in a proper way. We've made a huge first step because sometimes officers believe people are not held accountable for actions. In this case, one is being held accountable. So Cincinnati is showing the rest of us how to do this right.

[13:56:26] I'm not a Cincinnatian, but I know the country is looking at Cincinnati as to how you're going to react to this. And we're asking it be done in a way that moves us forward and that fellow Cincinnatians and fellow law enforcement officers looking at this case can be proud of.

So that's our position. If you have questions, I'd be glad to address them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

O'MARA: They're going to make a statement in a moment. I don't know if there's any --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) -- wondering -- (INAUDIBLE) -- are you surprised?

O'MARA: Yeah, I am a bit surprised to be honest with you. Since I didn't see the video, and nobody saw the video, it's easy to sit back and say, you know, you look at that three-page police report and, quite honestly, as Mr. Dieter said, that was self-serving, wasn't it? Now that we know -- you can't look at that video and say that that police report follows the video. It doesn't. It contradicts it. My concern, having done this a long, long time, is just that, that you look at police reports and they can, on occasion, be self-serving. This one obviously was. And if there wasn't a video available, I do not believe he would have had an indictment. I believe the one officer would have said what he said in that report and follow up with it. The other officer, who seems to say maybe he saw the dragging, maybe he was just told about the dragging, suddenly, becomes a corroborating witness. But now that we have a video, we don't have that problem. So if you had asked me that after seeing the video, I would have said, without question, an indictment. Mr. Dieters had that opportunity before I did. I think he did what he did because of the video and other information he gathered.

Yeah?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What does that say about where we are in America with policing? When you say, if not for that video, he wouldn't have had a case.

O'MARA: We are -- I truly believe that we are seeing the crisis now but it has existed for a long time. You ask anyone who -- anyone in the black community, and they know that what's existed in the criminal justice system has been biased for decades. I've done this for 30 years and my -- my practice is skewed in favor of young black males in the system. Why? Because they're brought into the system more. So, yes, we're seeing a crisis. If there's a silver lining to what's been happening for the past few years, beginning with all the cases three four years ago that have started this conversation or maintained this conversation, it's that we are finally talking about it. And I do think that body cameras should be mandatory with law enforcement because, unfortunately, when you have cops who may not be well enough trained, may not be well enough paid and you put a gun on their hip and they go do one of the most difficult jobs that we asked ask them to do, police ourselves from each other, and do it for a year or two or a decade, you're going to get insensitive. The problem is that then this can happen. So, yeah, I think we have a crisis but we also have a great opportunity.

Yeah?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I think there was a second officer semi- corroborating the story. Do you think there was an intentional cover- up or just "you're my fellow officer, you say so, fine" or something else?

[13:55:00] O'MARA: I look forward to Mr. Dieter's office and whoever else is looking into why that officer seemed to have said what he said. I've never seen a sworn statement by officer number two that said "I saw dragging" but you read the report and I read the report. And when I read that report it said to me, officer number two saw the dragging. So, and he did not. When he was put to task in his sworn testimony, did he change or modify that story once he realized there was a video that was going to couldn't indicate what he said? I don't know. But we have to stop having officers who think it's better to cover another officer than it is to tell the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When you looked at the video -- I'm looking at it, at what point does he possibly feel afraid for his life?

O'MARA: I don't know. I've probably seen five hundreds of video of events -- I don't know what it is -- and I've reviewed police -- it's what I do. When I look at that video the first time, I knew what I expected to happen. I expected that there to be a tussle. I expected an escalation of the event, right. I expected that there was going to be some explanation for why somebody took out a gun and shot. And I'm watching it, waiting, and the shot happened and the car took off. And I actually for a slight second thought, OK, the shot's coming. The car is going to stop. He's going to catch up to the car. That's where the tussle -- and then I realized the shot had already happened. I'm not trying to dramatize it. When that shot happened, for absolutely no reason under the law as I know it -- I know when you're supposed to use deadly force. You're supposed to use it when you have reasonable fear of great bodily injury. There was none of that. There wasn't an aggravation. There wasn't an increase in the situation, certainly not by sound. It was horrific to see that anyone could think, now I can use a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And I know the mom wants to come up maybe for a moment and --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION) O'MARA: Yes, sure.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you know about Officer Ray Tensing at this point, anything more than we've already heard?

O'MARA: Not very much, except I know he's going to tell us that something was going on in his head unrelated to Sam and that helped inform why he did what he did.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Insanity?

O'MARA: No. I believe that he's going to have to come up with some explanation for how he thought it was appropriate to do what he did by taking out a gun to begin with instead of leaving that car leave or do whatever, and then firing. If he has any training -- and we have to presume he has some -- he's trained on how not to use a gun before using a gun. That's what cops are trained to do, when to not use your gun, and only to use it under the most necessary circumstances.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think it was racially motivated, or what is your read about that?

O'MARA: I don't think Officer Tensing got up that morning and decided that he was going to kill a black guy. But we know that the reason why young black males or blacks are in the criminal justice system more than they should be is because there's almost unsubtle unspoken biases that exists between all of us. We all make instantaneous decisions about each other. Unfortunately, it seems to we're still making negative instantaneous decisions about blacks. And that seems to be one of the explanations for why it shows up in more arrests. So, active, no. Passive, probably.

AUDREY DUBOSE, MOTHER OF SAMUEL DUBOSE: When I heard that my son was killed and I came forth and so many people -- there was a gentleman speaking of my son, and I knew that gentleman knew my son. The way he spoke of him, I knew he knew him. And I -- I felt the need to go up there and to just hug him. And when I came forth, I brought the Lord with me. He goes with me wherever I go. And I say it, the Lord bringeth. He is clothed with majesty. The Lord is clothed with strength in which he has girded himself. But we're also established that it cannot be missed.