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Graham Says Trump Inflict Damage to GOP, Talks Afghan Attacks; Trial for Reporter Jason Rezaian in Iran; Bernie Sanders Gets Record Crowd as Hillary Clinton Offers Student Loan Reform. Aired 1:30-2p

Aired August 10, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:34:17] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham says Donald Trump is inflicting permanent and possibly fatal damage on the Republican Party. Graham has been one of the billionaire businessman's most vocal critics, and he tells the "Washington Post" it's time for others to stop tiptoeing around Trump.

Senator and Republican presidential candidate, Lindsey Graham, is joining us now live from Greenville, South Carolina.

Senator, thanks so much for being with us.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.

KEILAR: And explain your thoughts on this about how damaging, how long lasting Trump's comments about Megyn Kelly, the FOX News anchor, who asked him this question about women is to the party's effort to attract female voters?

[13:35:04] GRAHAM: Well, we're a party that has two problems. A problem with women voters, and I think we can do much better with women voters. We have a problem with his shtick. I think Mr. Trump's approach, with all due respect, is not helping our party with women, particularly young women. And his rhetoric about illegal immigration is so over the top. If I was a young woman or a Hispanic watching this debate, I think I'd have been pretty turned off by Mr. Trump. And the question is, does it bleed over to all of us?

KEILAR: So you obviously think Republicans need to take him on. But I also wonder if he were to, say, become the nominee of the party, what would you do? Would you support him?

GRAHAM: I told you, I'd hold my nose and vote for him but we'd get killed. Hillary Clinton would beat him like a drum. This message of his, 62 percent of the people said they would not vote for Donald Trump under any circumstance. I think that's probably an accurate poll, and over time, will grow. But it's up to the party to decide how to deal with this. I really think to be in the next debate you ought to commit yourself to not going to run as an Independent. Why would we want to give a spot to somebody who's not sure if they'll wind up running against us or not. This is up to party leadership in that regard. KEILAR: You have also had some suggestions, I think, about how Donald

Trump should be covered. You've been critical of how fax news handled the questions in this debate for Donald Trump. On MSNBC you said "at the end of the day, ask the man a question that explains his positions and solutions rather than a ten-minute question that describes him as the biggest -- your word -- bastard on the planet." You feel he's drowning out the talk of issues?

GRAHAM: Well, the way I would handle Mr. Trump if I were in your business is show me the evidence Mexico is sending all the illegal immigrants here, the government of Mexico. Tell me again how you would defeat or destroy ISIL.

KEILAR: But Senator with all due respect, he was asked that during the debate and he said he was down talking to --

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GRAHAM: No, he wasn't.

KEILAR: He said he had talked to Border Patrol, I'm assuming on his visit to the border and that he was getting this from the horse's mouth, from people there on the border.

GRAHAM: No, he said he had evidence and Chris Wallace, to his credit, said show it. So all I'm suggesting is we know Mr. Trump's personality is what it is. We need to understand what he would do as president. You build this giant wall with a big door, do you think 11 million people are going to walk back to wherever they come from and then we decide who comes back? It's not a viable plan. So I hope the Republican Party will do two things -- we'll distance ourselves from this rhetoric. People have been tiptoeing around criticizing Mr. Trump. I think we should say this is not who we are as a party when it comes to women and it's not a viable approach to immigration to keep the party viable in 2016 in a time when I think we have a good chance to win. But if I were a young woman, I would be offended. If I were Hispanic, I would think well, our party really doesn't like us if we don't push back against this rhetoric. I don't think most illegal immigrants are rapist or drug dealers. I thinker that they are good, hardworking people and we need to create order out of chaos.

KEILAR: You said you would hold your nose and vote for Donald Trump but I wonder when you look at, let's say, a Hillary Clinton, if they were to be the nominee, versus Donald Trump, you believe in a pathway to citizenship, she believes in a pathway to citizenship.

GRAHAM: I do.

KEILAR: You have some things in common. Would it be a tough choice to vote for him over Hillary Clinton?

GRAHAM: I can't have it both ways. I can't say I'm a loyal Republican. If I got to be president of the United States, I would do what's best for us all. I would take my party on, on immigration. The House is -- every bill from the Senate goes to the House to die. But I'm trying to articulate why I'd be the best commander-in-chief, what I would do with ISIL, how I could get a better deal with Iran. All these issues are being lost. But if I'm saying I would support the Republican nominee, I need to mean it. And I'm being honest. I would support the Republican nominee. But if it's Donald Trump, she wins in a landslide.

KEILAR: Getting to the issues now. With your point of view, as a Senator very prominent on foreign relations, talk about how you see this wave of attacks we have seen in Afghanistan, specifically in Kabul. We've seen a U.S. coalition soldier killed, we've seen several U.S. service members injured, and also what Nick Paton Walsh just reported about what we're seeing in Turkey, right in Istanbul.

GRAHAM: Well, let's go to Afghanistan first. All of our commanders have suggested our withdrawal from Afghanistan should be conditions- based. The Taliban and other terrorist groups are testing the new Afghan army. They have gotten better but they're not where they need to be. If we pull down to -- withdraw to a thousand troops in 2017, we're going to lose ground along the Afghan/Pakistan border. We're going to lose ground in the south and it will be a platform to hit America again. So President Obama's withdrawal plan is too far too fast. And you'll have Iraq all over again if you withdraw from Afghanistan. This should be conditions-based. You see a resurgence of the Taliban testing the Afghan army. It's not in our national security interest to leave Afghanistan too soon, like we did with Iraq.

[13:40:47] KEILAR: Senator Graham, thanks so much. I want to certainly get your sense on Turkey but we have to wrap it up there. Thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

For more on Senator Lindsey Graham, as well as all the other presidential contenders, check him and the others out at CNNpolitics.com. You can learn about the issues there and where they stand.

Coming up, Iran holds its fourth and final hearing for detained "Washington Post" reporter, Jason Rezaian. We'll talk about what happens next.

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[13:45:43] KEILAR: Today the final hearing was held for a "Washington Post" reporter jailed in Iran. It remains unclear what happens next. Jason Rezaian, who was accused of espionage, has been held by the Iranian government since 2014. The "Washington Post" calls the trial a sham and denies all of the allegations.

We have chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, joining us now on this.

What happened, do we know?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The system is, so to speak, we don't know a lot. We know his defense lawyer read a 20-page statement of defense. We know Jason spoke in his defense. And we know that the read now from the lawyers and others involved in the case is they think you will have an answer in about a week on the verdict and the sentence as well. The greatest hope is they sentence him to about a year so he gets time served so his release comes quickly afterwards but there are no guarantees. There's so many factions in Iran and it's the hard-liners who tend to control the judiciary so they'll be the toughest ones you want to -- you don't want to be dealing with in that country.

KEILAR: What is his family saying? They've been so involved.

SCIUTTO: Enormous frustration, deep hurt. They're worried about his physical health. His mother obviously wants her son to come home. His brother wants him to come home. The "Washington Post" editorial says he never should have been put in prison and it's been dragging on for more than a year now. We have a statement from his brother, Ali, who says, "His unlawful detention has carried on for far too long. He deserves to be vindicated and set free without further delay." That's been consistent from them.

KEILAR: If the best case scenario seems to be one year and he gets time served, that's best case, but how likely is it?

SCIUTTO: I asked everybody involved and no one wants to make a bet because you can be surprised. There's an optimistic point of view. This is the way it often happens in Iran. He's about outlived his usefulness for the hard-liners. The deal has been made, the nuclear agreement, so there is some hope, with that in mind, they're ready to release him. But there are forces in Iran who aren't ready or who want to give him a stronger message by giving him a longer term.

KEILAR: Jim Sciutto, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Still ahead, Democratic candidate, Bernie Sanders, draws the biggest crowd so far of any 2016 campaign rally. Can Hillary Clinton attract that same level of enthusiasm? We'll talk about it next.

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[13:52:31] KEILAR: Donald Trump and his comments may be hogging the headline but Democrats are campaigning in their own campaign battle. Hillary Clinton is rolling out a major proposal on student loan reform. Her ambitious plan is worth $350 billion, would transform how students pay for college.

We have CNN senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson; and David Chalian, CNN political director.

Nia, tell us who she's trying to appeal to here. Who is she trying to appeal to?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It's pretty big. Progressives have been waiting for her to weigh in on this. It's pretty significant, $350 billion over 10 years. It would make college much more affordable. If you go to a public university, that you could graduate loan-free, and also incentivizes states for putting more money into education. There have been a lot of cuts across the country because of the recession. This plays well not only with young people but also really well with women, Independent voting, you know, swing voter women. It kind of lights up when they are in focus groups talking about this. This is what they want to hear about college affordability.

KEILAR: It's a big issue with broad appeal, David. I want to talk about how much Hillary Clinton is appealing. The fervor with which they are supporting her. Bernie Sanders had 19,000 people inside, 9,000 outside. Hillary Clinton has had intimate events and even at her launch speech, she didn't use the overflow. It was empty. What does that say to you?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: That's the largest crowd of the entire campaign, Republican or Democratic candidate.

KEILAR: Anyone.

CHALIAN: That is it. He's drawn the largest crowd at this campaign. So that is a feather in his cap. Congratulations for that. Where does he go now? With the message about taking on the billionaire class which he believes is corrupting American politics, he strikes a chord. Now he's got to make the case that he can carry this through and go the distance. Huge crowd. We should also note, in another event this weekend, he also had protesters come up with Black Lives Matter movement.

[13:55:02] KEILAR: That's correct.

CHALIAN: With the good, comes the contentious, as Bernie Sanders continues to fire up the energy.

KEILAR: I want to talk about Black Lives Matter. It's very key. But you also said you have to be able to channel it. Hillary Clinton, if you talk to her campaign, sure, Bernie Sanders is surging, but she is organizing.

HENDERSON: That's right.

KEILAR: She's organizing in Iowa, in New Hampshire. She's really not squandering the chance to organize the heck out of both of those states. Enthusiasm is nice.

HENDERSON: Heavy crowds don't necessarily vote. If you remember, in 2008, Barack Obama drew 35,000 people to a rally in Philadelphia on the eve of that primary and Hillary Clinton still won by something like nine points. It doesn't always translate. They always say they are running their race. It's all about being on the ground organizing that they learned from Barack Obama in 2008 and a lot of those staffers are working for her this go around.

CHALIAN: That's true. But let's not kid ourselves. If they look at the local news clips and see these pictures, that gives them some pause.

KEILAR: Some pause, for sure.

CHALIAN: I mean, they are aware and they have been seeing Sanders rise for quite some time. They don't feel threatened it by in a moral way for the nomination but they do, as you see today -- I'm not saying she's out there on college affordability. I'm sure they would have had a plan. But you see the Clinton campaign is doubling down on the base, on the Obama coalition strategy of which this Bernie Sanders movement is a part.

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders made a mistake that actually Hillary Clinton made significantly before he did, and Martin O'Malley did as well, saying all lives matter, and that did not go over well because that's not what the Black Lives Matter folks want to hear. To them, that is sort of an oppositional retort to them saying Black Lives Matter.

HENDERSON: Right. It doesn't acknowledge that there's a specific problem when it comes to the criminal justice system and African- Americans. Hillary Clinton, in her defense, did say Black Lives Matter in December 2014. I think --

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KEILAR: To be clear, I think they all stepped in it. I don't think they meant to do it. But at the same time, we've seen Bernie Sanders perhaps struggle saying it's all economic. Hillary Clinton has hit back with him on that. How big of an issue is this for Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, how worried is she about it?

HENDERSON: I think it's a big problem for Bernie Sanders. You saw, of course, his rally there disrupted and if you look at those crowds, they look more like a Republican Party convention than a Democratic convention because most of those crowds are overwhelmingly white. He has had real trouble expanding his message what he's trying to do is talk more about race, sort of a plan and functioning and introducing him at his rallies. They are very aware when it comes to the states like New Hampshire, they will probably do well. South Carolina and all these other states, where African-Americans are going to be so crucial, they could have a problem.

CHALIAN: The Democratic candidate that doesn't take the Black Lives Matter movement seriously, does so at their peril. It's sort of like what we saw with Occupy Wall Street on the left. There's an energy and a growing movement inside the base of your supporters. That's why we saw the protest this weekend.

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders, to be clear, who is he attracting? You look at his crowds, they're white crowds. They're more the liberal white part of the Democratic Party, whereas Hillary Clinton is making this very strong play when she talks about race a lot, when she talks about a path to citizenship. She's making a play for the Barack Obama coalition for Hispanics, young people, women, African-Americans, right?

HENDERSON: That's right. We know in states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, African-American voters are going to be key to trying to win those electoral votes that Obama was able to win, and Clinton knows this. She spent a lot of time in South Carolina and talking about these issues because she knows that's where her fortunes rise or fall. KEILAR: Nia, David, thank you so much to both of you. Appreciate it.

CNN will be hosting the second Republican debate on September 16th. The candidates will gather at the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. And then CNN will host the first of the six Democratic debates on October 13th, live from Nevada, right here on CNN.

That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. in "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.