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Bush Slams Clinton And Obama Over Rise of ISIS; Trustworthiness An Issue For Clinton; Democrats Looking For Alternatives; Biden Using Vacation To Weigh Presidential Run; Chinese Left Homeless After Tianjin Explosion; Kerry Speaks in Cuba. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 14, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Dana Bash. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, also 1:00 p.m. in Havana, 6:00 p.m. in London and 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks for joining us.

Up first, deep fried foods and hard-boiled politics. Jeb Bush campaigns that the Iowa State Fair hoping to rev up his presidential campaign. Bush took to the State Fair soap box just a little while ago and he took aim at Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration over the rise of ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you pull back, voids are filled. And, sadly today, we have a void that has been filled, a caliphate the size larger than Iowa. Thousands and thousands of trained forces organized to destroy western civilizations. I'm not exaggerating.

Today, the FBI director says the thing that keeps him up at night are home grown terrorist. They're inspired by ISIS. We should be taking out ISIS. We should have a strategist to deal with ISIS rather than admit that we don't have one. Each and every day that they exist, they gain more power. They recruit more people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN Political Director David Chalian and CNN Political Reporter Sara Murray join us from Des Moines. You guys got the great assignment. All that fabulous food at the Iowa State Fair. But let's start talking about politics. David, I'll start with you. Clearly, Bush is trying to blame Hillary Clinton and President Obama for ISIS. But does that really work when your name is Bush?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You know, I think the calculation that Jeb is now trying to make is it can work if you talk prospectively in the future about what he would do to take the fight to ISIS and then critique the Obama administration and, of course, secretary of state Clinton's tenure at the time, about the withdrawal out of Iraq. When he talks about the past and getting into Iraq first and the war itself and if that created the space for ISIS to rise, then he gets all tripped up because he's in this world of his brother's decisions. And I think that you -- we've seen both sides of that coin with Jeb Bush on the trail. And I think the more he can talk about it as his plan for the future, the better footing he's on politically, Dana.

BASH: You're right. And, Sara, you know, when Bush talks about the idea of his brother's legacy and about the war in Iraq, you can almost see the wheels turning in his head saying, this is what I need to say politically but this is how I feel emotionally because it's my brother.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I think that's absolutely right. And I think that's why he's still struggling to come up with a good answer on this question because he knows that he wants to be his own man, he said again today, I am my own man. And I think he does want to set himself apart, policy wise, but it's very hard to, you know, throw your brother under the bus, to throw your dad under the bus. And I think he just really, in his heart, does not want to take that step.

BASH: You know, David, we all remember the moment of the campaign when Donald Trump put out there for the world to see Lindsey Graham's cell phone number and it was a big deal. Well, Jeb Bush kind of did it for himself, talking about transparency just a little while ago there. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Here's the deal, my e-mail address, write it down and send me your thoughts, Jeb@Jeb.org. By the way, I just gave out my e-mail address. It's exactly what I did when I was governor of the state of Florida. I released all my e-mails. I'm writing an e-book about my e-mails. I think we need a lot more transparency in politics today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Kind of amazing, that has been his e-mail address for a long time. A lot of people know that. And it still is and he's still giving it out.

CHALIAN: Yes, and he still responds, Dana. I mean, this is -- he -- that we've now can see since he's released a lot of his e-mails, how he interacted with constituents, with Tallahassee press corps when he was governor of the state there. And I do think that it is also a convenience way for him to sort of needle and elbow Hillary Clinton who, obviously, is still suffering under this swirl of an e-mail controversy of her own.

BASH: We're going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. Thank you so much for that discussion, David Chalian, Sara Murray, because we want to go to a live event right now in Havana, Cuba. The secretary of state, John Kerry, and the Cuban foreign minister about to have a press conference. Let's listen in. [13:05:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translator) (live): Secretary of state,

John Kerry, in the heart of the Cuban consulate with the official ceremony in the embassy of the United States this morning in Havana. It's been a pleasure.

Also, (INAUDIBLE) Jacobson charge of affairs (ph) as well. The secretary of state and myself, we have had a new meeting and a very cordial atmosphere with bilateral interests discussed including the steps of countries need to take to advance in the process aiming at a normalization of relations once the first stage has --

BASH: OK, we're going to continue to monitor this press conference when we hear some more news, when we hear from the U.S. secretary of state. But we want to turn back to American politics right now to the issue dogging Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, the e-mail controversy. New details are emerging about documents found on Clinton's e-mail server that an auditor deemed top secret.

Our Justice Reporter Evan Perez is here with that story. And, you know, Evan, when we hear the words, top secret, we think of, you know, some kind of spy novel or spy movie, something that really, really matters when it comes to the secrets of this country. But maybe not so much?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Right. A lot of people think that, perhaps, someone was sending nuclear codes or something --

BASH: Right.

PEREZ: -- to secretary Clinton over this private e-mail server. And that really raises the concern. But a lot of the e-mails that we're talking about are, perhaps, a little bit more innocuous. And there's an associated press story this morning that talks about someone forwarding an e-mail that discuss -- that includes a newspaper article, a news article on drone strikes.

And that program is covert. It's completely forbidden to talk about it even on classified government e-mail servers, not to mention private e-mail servers. And that is considered, certainly by the CIA and certainly by the intelligence community, to be a violation. They don't like that. They still consider that to be classified. Just because something is published, doesn't mean that it's been unclassified.

Now, you know, she can't really just get away with saying that that -- those are the innocuous e-mails on this server because we're told that there are a lot of other e-mails that did have, perhaps, more serious information and they are more sensitive information. And so, it doesn't really explain this controversy.

BASH: And that's one of the things I was going ask you. From your sources, what are you hearing about some of the things that they think are on this server?

PEREZ: Well, it range -- there's a range. We're told by people who have looked at the stuff. Certainly for months, the CIA, the Defense Department, the FBI have raised concerns because they saw certain information that they believe should not be on this server. And that's why it was inappropriate to have it in a private e-mail setting where it's not protected by government security. And so, we are told that it ranges everything from information that perhaps she was being used to prepare for a meeting, perhaps, to, again, these newspaper articles that -- you know, even things like discussing the Snowden documents would have been considered improper.

BASH: And all this -- all these things wouldn't have been considered as improper, or maybe not improper at all, had it been on government e-mail and not her private server?

PEREZ: Right, exactly. It still would have been improper for you to be discussing it, but at least you could clean it up a little bit better if it's on a government -- a dotgov e-mail address. And the problem here is that, you know, even if they were sending e-mails at the time that wasn't classified and -- or they didn't know that it was classified, it's still a problem. And so, the legal argument for the Clinton campaign to try to clean this up is that, well, we didn't know that it was classified at the time it was sent. That's not enough of an answer.

BASH: And then, of course, there's what you cover, the legal argument, and then there's what we cover which is the political argument which are whole different questions.

PEREZ: That is exactly right.

BASH: Yes, yes.

PEREZ: That's exactly right. This is a problem that -- because the FBI is going to spend months and months, we're talking 15 months from now, we're probably still going to be talking about this because the FBI will take its time to reconstruct what exactly happened here.

BASH: It won't be easy. Evan, thank you so much, for your reporting, as always. And whether it is Hillary Clinton's e-mail controversy or maybe a lack of enthusiasm for the Democratic front-runner, some Democrats are looking for a possible plan B, an alternative candidate to step into this White House race. The most recent name to surface? A blast from the past, Al Gore.

But an associate tells CNN that speculation about Gore possibly getting into the race is groundless. And then, there's vice president, Joe Biden. He is considering a run, spending part of his vacation talking to family and friends about whether he should lunch a campaign.

[13:10:01] So, let's talk about all this with our White House Correspondent Michelle Kosinski and CNN Senior Political Reporter Nia- Malika Henderson. Let's start with you, Michelle. Al Gore's people are trying to squelch this, squelch any talk of him running. The people I talk to say, it ain't gonna happen, this is just, you know, what people tend to talk about, at this stage of the game. They're looking for alternatives. What are you hearing? MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, we're

hearing the same thing. But it's, like, maybe they're looking at the Republicans, this big lineup. Why not jump in, join that party? But, yes, I mean, these rumors started, they were actually published on Buzzfeed, coming from unnamed Democratic operatives who said that there was some chatter, some talk about -- you know, similar to what Biden is doing. Looking at what the possibilities could be, what kind of operation could be -- could be put together.

But even then, those sources were sort of down-playing Al Gore's own involvement in that kind of feeling it out and feeling out the atmosphere for that. And then, when you talk to Biden's -- talk to Gore's people directly, they don't even add any ambiguity or possibility for the future in there. They say that they are groundless rumors, that there is no truth at all to it. So, you just have to go with that, in the end. I mean, they're not leaving any room in there or any kind of feelers out there to the media. They're just saying, no, no, that's not going to happen. It's not true. That's not to say never but, for now, but that's their line -- Dana.

BASH: Absolutely. And I'm hearing similar. Nia-Malika, this isn't really about Al Gore, maybe not even so much about Joe Biden, for some. It's concern among Democrats about where the race is right now. What's their biggest worry? What are you hearing?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, you know, I talked to folks in South Carolina, I talked to folks in Iowa, and they're sort of hearing the same questions and asking the same questions. Activists saying, basically, is Hillary Clinton going to be OK? And, really, they sort of want affirmation that this sort of swirl that we've had around Hillary Clinton over this last couple of months since she's been in over these e-mail problems. Will that, ultimately, damage her so much that it makes her unelectable, either for the Democratic nomination or for the general? So, there is worry about that and if you look at some of the numbers in some of these polls, there's trustworthy issues and they feel like she hasn't necessarily dealt with those and put those to rest.

BASH: Funny you should bring that up. We happen to have the numbers right here. Let's put them up on the screen for our viewers. The latest CNN ORC Iowa poll, 35 percent say Bernie Sanders is the most honest and trustworthy, 28 percent for Clinton. So, that kind of gives you a sense because she's supposed to be the front-runner there. You know, Michelle, you covered the administration, Hillary Clinton, for a long time, was part of the administration. At that point, she was riding high in the polls. She was one of the most respected people in the world and her popularity numbers were very high. And it's changed a lot now that she's a politician again.

KOSINSKI: Yes, it's interesting seeing that one poll that came out in the last few weeks. I mean, early, early on, among Democrats, her support level was, like, 75 percent and now that's eroded down to, like, 59 percent. It was also interesting yesterday is that we were getting some interviews through our crew in Iowa of people who might possibly caucus for Biden, if he were to run, and trustworthiness was a big thing for them. And they were saying that now they feel like they could trust Biden more than they trust Hillary Clinton.

And also just this week, talking to some longtime Clinton supporters and friends. I mean, you ask them, you know, what do you think about this e-mail situation? What do you think about what's going on? And they -- they're sort of feeling it, too. And they're saying, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. You get a sense of those doubts, at times. And, you know, that just opens up the cracks a little bit more for others, like Joe Biden, to be looking at the race, saying, well, you know, maybe the time is now.

BASH: You know, it's funny. I got a tweet from somebody Nia, recently, saying, how come everybody says, you know, it's very early in the race in one breath, and then when you're the talking about somebody getting in there, you say, oh, it's so late to get your infrastructure together? Which, actually, you know, kind of is a good point. What do you think? I mean, could it be too late for him? You've covered politics for a while, just to actually get the people and organization in place? And when I say him, I mean Joe Biden.

HENDERSON: Yes, that's the way. I mean, if anybody could do it, you imagine that Joe Biden could because he's run for president before. He's such a widely known figure and a beloved figure, certainly in some of these early states because he's spent time there, South Carolina, Iowa, states like that. So, maybe somebody like Joe Biden, but anyone else, it's just so hard.

As you said, to get that infrastructure together, to get that fund- raising apparatus together and hire people. A lot of those folks who worked, quite frankly, for Obama and to reelect Biden, they're working for Hillary Clinton, at this point, or they're working for Martin O'Malley. So, just getting that together, it would be a lot.

And let's face it, he's also got a day job, right? So, he's got to focus on that. Biden does, if he wants to run. So, there's a lot of things he would need to do in -- and hard to see that anybody else who's not a Biden could put that together and really challenge Hillary Clinton, at this point.

[13:15:14]

BASH: And he said that he's going to decide by the end of the summer. One of his associates reminded me yesterday that the summer ends September 23rd. So we have a little bit of time.

Michelle, I cannot let you go without talking about my favorite story of the day. The White House released President Obama's Spotify play list. What's on it?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that was interesting, right? I'm listening to it right now in my ear. Yes, that was interesting. I mean it was like --this like wide, beautiful selection. A little Motown, Mary J. Blige, Van Morrison. I think there's a little Sinatra in there. I don't know. It's a little perfect if you ask me. I don't see any guilty pleasures in there.

BASH: Wait a minute, wait a minute, I sense some skepticism in there. KOSINSKI: I kind of -- I'd kind of like (INAUDIBLE).

HENDERSON: Yes, this was a highly (INAUDIBLE).

KOSINSKI: Until I see --

BASH: Yes.

(CROSS TALK)

BASH: Are you saying that this was a poll tested -- a poll tested play list?

KOSINSKI: I want to see just one Us Weekly (ph) on the reading list. I want to see like Carly Rae Jepsen. At least one guilty pleasure and then I'll believe it.

HENDERSON: Right. Yes.

BASH: All right, well, I thought it was fascinating that they released it anyway. Thanks so much to both of you. It's great to talk to you.

HENDERSON: Thanks.

BASH: And for the latest in politics and all the presidential candidates, head over to cnnpolitics.com.

And coming up, new reports that ISIS fighters may be using chemical weapons. How will this affect coalition strategy?

Plus, the U.S. embassy in Cuba opens its doors for the first time in 54 years. We'll take you live to Havana.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:43] BASH: Chinese officials have a critical situation on their hand following that explosion in a major port city. Thousands of people now have no place to call home and environmental officials are trying to determine just what risks the chemicals that were released into the blast now pose.

CNN's Will Ripley has the latest from China.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now there are thousands of people who are homeless as a result of the explosions that have rocked this city. But there's also a tremendous amount of help that's coming in. These are volunteers who are lined up to work the overnight shift at a shelter, one of 12 emergency shelters set up throughout this city for the thousands of people who are going into the weekend without any possessions for the most part. They're needing everything from food and water and medical treatment, to blankets and beds for them and their children to sleep on.

When you look at the video of the explosion, you see how powerful that series of blasts truly were, it's incredible how many people were able to get out of it alive, even those who were in close proximity. But perhaps the most incredible story is a 19-year-old firefighter who was rescued earlier in the day after surviving for 31 hours in the blast zone. Listen to what one of the firefighters says thinks helped pull him through it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, (through translator): I think it's a strong will which helped him to hold on. When talking with him, I could feel his strong inner power. And we also kept pepping him up, urging him to hold on and telling him the ambulance was arriving.

RIPLEY: As he makes his recovery along with more than 700 others who are in the hospital, 33 in extremely critical condition, the search continues for many of the firefighters who are still missing. And there are many who are missing. Twenty-one firefighters confirmed dead so far amongst the 56 fatalities so far confirmed in this blast.

There's a team of chemical and biological experts on the ground here. They're trying to figure out exactly what chemicals were in the factory and if there is any more danger to the public. You have a thousand firefighters who are putting sand and foam on the hot spots. But if it rains here, many of the people sleeping in these emergency shelters are fearful. They're fearful that there will be another chemical reaction and perhaps -- that could perhaps contaminate the environment once again. And, in fact, one mother tells us that she's trying to get her daughter to a safer location.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, (through translator): I asked my in-laws to take my daughter home. I don't want them to stay here. I'm worried. I heard it's going to rain later and that would make the air toxic.

RIPLEY: The owners of the industrial factory where all of these chemicals were being stored, they are being questioned and could potentially face charges if it turns out that there was criminal wrongdoing. That's the word from the Chinese government. They want to know why firefighters in the initial response were not aware, they didn't have a list of all the chemicals that were being housed when that fire first ignited. Some of those chemicals could have had an explosive reaction if water was used in the firefighting effort. So that is a key part of this investigation into this tragic event.

But the urgent needs right now, making sure that all of the people who are homeless are cared for, searching for the missing and also making sure that the environmental impact is mitigated. They're testing the air, they're testing the groundwater and the sea water, wanting to make sure that all of the people who remain here are safe.

Will Ripley, CNN, Tianjin, China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And up next, we're going to take you live to Havana where the flag was raised over the U.S. embassy for the first time in 54 years. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:28:23] BASH: An historic moment today in Cuba. The American flag was raised at the reopened U.S. embassy in Havana, lowered more than half a century ago. Secretary of State John Kerry watched over the flag ceremony and he's speaking right now. Let's listen in.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Safeguarding health, fighting crime, creating sustainable energy security, advancing human rights and equipping our young people with the knowledge and the skills that they need in the modern world to be able to succeed and thrive and help build community in their own nations. Today, with the ceremonial flag raising at the embassy, we are taking an historic and, I might add, long overdue step in the right direction -- to be able to succeed and thrive and help build community in their own nations. Today, with the ceremonial flag raising at the embassy, we are taking an historic and I might add long overdue step in the right direction.

BASH: Now, on the eve of this ceremony, an open letter from former Cuban President Fidel Castro was published in the state newspaper. In it, the former leader said the U.S. still owes Cuba millions of dollars in compensation for the damage done by decades-long U.S. embargoes.

Now, you just heard some of the optimistic comments from Secretary of State John Kerry at the embassy being reopened, but he also offered a different take in an op-ed published today. In it he talked about human rights.

[13:29:58] He said, "we are clear eyed about the challenges ahead, among these is Cuba's continued denial of universal human rights. Dissidents are still being detained and beaten. And in Cuba, as elsewhere, we must remain steadfast in championing the rights of all citizens to speak freely.