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Wolf

Bush Addresses Immigration Issues; Interview with George Pataki; Shots Fired, Tensions Rise between North, South Korea; State Department: No Side Deal in Iraq Nuclear Deal. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired August 20, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:34:11] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The Republican presidential front runner, Donald Trump, says he's the only reason other candidates are even talking about immigration. He's also been sparring directly with Jeb Bush over several policy issues.

Only moments ago, the former Florida governor spoke about immigration after his town hall in Keene, New Hampshire. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: We are a diverse country. That's a virtue, a strength of our country. I'm proud our children have a Mexican-American mom, as American as anybody else. Loves this country as much or as much as anybody else, believes in the shared values of this great country. My children are blessed to have that heritage. And so --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What led her to that?

[13:35:00] BUSH: She wanted to vote for my dad and she loves this country. She wanted to share the experience with me. This is what families do all the time. It shouldn't be such a novel thing, to be honest with you. This is pretty regular in the places where I grew up and where I live now. This whole immigration debate is hurtful for a lot of people, really hurtful. I'm talking about in general when you just huge tidal wave of accusations or bombastic talk. There's a lot of people that share the immigrant experience and what they hear is you don't think I'm part of this, part of this country. I know that for a fact because I have hundreds of people that tell me that. We need to turn down the rhetoric a little bit, talk about solutions and get on with fixing things in this country and turn this into a driver for success rather than this defeatist attitude we now have.

(CROSSTALK)

[13:36:02] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you regret using the term anchor babies yesterday on the radio?

BUSH: No, I didn't.

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: I don't regret it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You don't regret it?

BUSH: No. Do you have a better term?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I'm asking you.

BUSH: You give me a better term and I'll use it. I'm serious. Don't yell at me behind my ear, though.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sorry about that.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORT: (QUESTION INAUDIBLE)

BUSH: No, it isn't. Give me another word.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

BUSH: That's not another word. That's a seven -- look --

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: -- here's the deal, what I said was it's commonly referred to that. I didn't use it as my own language. You want to get to the policy. I think people born in this country ought to be American citizens. OK, now we've got that over with.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I notice your brother sent out an e-mail today.

BUSH: Yeah, he's for me.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You remind us you're your own man.

BUSH: I am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But you're having him work for you.

BUSH: Is that a contradiction?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No.

BUSH: I have my own record, my own life experience. I'm blessed to have a brother that loves me and wants to help me. Over and out.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You are trailing Trump here, also in Washington. He said in Florida your crowd was sleeping.

BUSH: That's an insult --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do you respond that, the narrative your campaign lacks.

BUSH: You're repeating the echo of the narrative. If you went to the event you would have found there was a lot of enthusiasm. And there's a big difference between Donald Trump and me. I'm a proven conservative with a record. He isn't. I've cut taxes every year. He's proposed the largest tax increase in mankind's history. I've been consistently pro-life. He, until recently, was for partial-birth abortion. I never have met anyone who thought that was a good idea. I believe we need to reform our health care system to stop the suppression of wages and allow people to have access to insurance. He's for a single-payer system. He actually advocates these things. He's been a Democrat longer than a Republican. I have fought for conservative and Republican causes all of my adult life. I just think when people get this narrative, whatever the new term is, the compare- and-contrast narrative, they're going to find that I'm going to be the guy that they're going to vote for. And it's a long haul, man.

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yes, ma'am? Yes, ma'am?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: All right. So there you get a flavor of the Q&A the former Florida governor has been having with reporters in New Hampshire.

Let's get the perspective of the former governor of New York, George Pataki.

Governor, thank you for joining us.

Give us your quick reaction to what you heard from Jeb Bush.

GEORGE PATAKI, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Wolf, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. We're talking about what term you use to describe children born in America. The world is falling apart. Iran is on the verge of having an illegal nuclear program. ISIS poses a threat to us here in America. Our economy is not growing. And we're arguing back and forth about utter nonsense. I think the whole Donald Trump thing has been not just a distraction but it's demagoguery when Americans understand we need a leader who can bring us together and actually solve problems.

BLITZER: Why is he doing so well in all the polls and you're not?

PATAKI: I think the American people are angry, and I understand that. I'm angry, too, about a government that doesn't stand up for America in the globe, that doesn't understand too many American families are hurting and, by the way, Wolf, right now in Washington it is a corrupt insider system. People are angry at that. Donald Trump has tapped into that anger and focused it now on immigrants, which I think is tragic and bad for America, but ultimately it's not about being angry. It's about turning that anger into positive solutions that's not what Trump has done. It is what I would do.

[13:40:] BLITZER: He recently tweeted this, "Governor Pataki was a terrible governor of New York, one of the worst, would have been swamped if he ran again."

That is one of the tweets he had attacking you. What's your response directly to him?

[13:40:09] PATAKI: I'm part of the crowd. I think he's pretty much attacked everybody. And, by the way, when I was governor I can't tell you the number of times he told me I was a great governor.

But we shouldn't be discussing Donald Trump's tweets. We should be discussing the idiotic policy he's advanced where he's going to say, for example, 7, 8, 9-year-old child born in America sitting in a third grade classroom, we're going to send thousands of police or soldiers or something into that classroom, take that child and send it to a country they've never been to where they may not speak the language because their parents don't have the right papers. This is not America. This is demagoguery. We have to move beyond this as Republicans and as Americans and understand that if we work together and look at solutions, the best for this country should be ahead of us, and I know that it is.

BLITZER: So you agree with a lot of scholars who say that if a child, even a child of illegal immigrants is born in the United States, even if the mother slipped into the United States simply to have the child born in the United States, that child is a U.S. citizen, you agree with that position?

PATAKI: First, I think it's wrong that we let that happen but, yes, that child is a U.S. citizen. And it's just ridiculous to me that not just Trump but others in my party, Scott Walker and others, agree with Trump. Think about it. We're going to send soldiers, troopers, whatever, to round up 11 million people, drag them off the farms, drag them out of a business, drag kids out of school and send them, often in the case of kids who may have been here 9, 10, 11 years and never lived in the country their parents came from and send them back? We should be focusing on standing up to radical Islam, on growing our economy and creating jobs, on changing the corrupt system in Washington. Donald Trump is not part of the solution. He's part of the problem -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Governor Pataki, thanks very much for joining us.

PATAKI: Thank you.

BLITZER: For the latest on politics and a lot more on all the presidential contenders go over to CNNpolitics.com, an excellent source for new information.

Coming up, north and South Korea, guess what, they're exchanging fire with threats of more violence. We're going there live. We'll have a report on what led up to these very tense moments on the Korean Peninsula where 30,000 U.S. Troops are along right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:47:03] BLITZER: Tensions are ratcheting up right now between North and South Korea. In the latest incident both sides exchanged fire across the heavily fortified border. Relations between the two sides have been increasingly strained in the past few weeks after two South Korean soldiers were wounded by land mines in the Demilitarized Zone prompting the South to resume blaring propaganda messages across the border.

Brian Todd is joining us now. He has more on how all of this began to unfold.

What are you learning, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've been speaking with U.S. and South Korean officials about how all of this did unfold. A U.S. official tells us North Korea first today fired at least one shot, a South Korean official says that was assumed to be a rocket toward a South Korean loudspeaker system that was blaring propaganda messages toward North Korean soldiers across the DMZ. According to a South Korean ministry official that one shot was assumed to be a small rocket. A U.S. official says South Korea responded by firing 36 artillery shells toward the north. Now there's no word yet on whether that caused any casualties on North Korea's side.

This is an escalation of tensions that were already very high. This week the U.S. and South Korea began an operation of massive military exercises, some 30,000 U.S. troops and about 50,000 South Korean troops are participating. Some of the live fire drills are scheduled to take place later in a city right about there near the DMZ that could be seen as a possible provocation to Kim Jong-Un. Kim's regime made a threat implying a possible nuclear attack on the United States. U.S. officials and weapons experts say they don't have the capability of launching that kind of attack right now but they are working on it.

Now much of this recent tension can be traced back to august 4th when that attack, as Wolf mentioned a moment ago, a land mine, blew up on the southern end of the DMZ right about there on the southern end. Two North Korean -- two South Korean soldiers were nearly killed in that attack. U.S. and South Korean officials say the North Koreans deliberately planted those mines. That gives you a sense how tensions have been building at least since august 4th in and around the DMZ.

BLITZER: Very tense, indeed.

Thanks, Brian, very much.

Let's get more perspective on what's going on. Gordon Chang is joining us, the author of "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World." He's a columnist with forbes.com.

Gordon, thanks very much for joining us. As you and I know, if you've been watching the Korean Peninsula for

years, there have been serious shelling exchanges like this before. Is this time different?

GORDON CHANG, COLUMNIST, FORBES.COM & AUTHOR: This time is a little bit different because, you know, North Korea engages in provocative behavior but rarely do it when the U.S. and South Korea are at a high state of readiness. As Brian Todd pointed out, we have these Freedom Guardian exercises, which means we are at that high state. This really means that North Korea, one of two things, either it's not serious or there's a lack of coherence in Pyongyang right now. If it's the latter one, then we've got a lot of problems in the next week or so.

[13:50:21] BLITZER: Is this tension right now the result of these U.S./South Korean military exercises which the North Koreans obviously hate?

CHANG: I don't think it has anything to do with the exercises. Kim Jong-Un, the ruler of North Korea has probably killed 300 or 400 junior officials. There's a lot of disunity at the top of the regime and Kim Jong-Un has problems with the military and most of this instability is caused by him trying to take back power and money from the military. You put all of that together and that's why we're seeing this exchange of fire at this particular time.

BLITZER: South Korea's relatively new president said to be ready for stern response to today's events. How likely is she going to allow this to escalate?

CHANG: Right now there's a 2013 plan of counter provocation, which means that the South Korean military, at a very low level, has the authority to fire back at North Korea which is the reason that we saw the 36 shells being fired at the north. This really changes the dynamic. It doesn't really matter what president park or President Obama says. There's going to be an automatic response. The reason we have this, there was no response in 2010 when the North Koreans killed the 46 in the South Korean frigate in March of 2010. That's why we'll see a different dynamic with basically retaliation.

BLITZER: I remember that very vividly. Shortly after that, I went to Pyongyang for six days and it was an extremely tense time. It calmed down in the period after that but at that time it was very tense. There's still some 30,000 American troops stationed along the demilitarized zone between north and South Korea. Maybe a million South Korean troops and maybe a million North Korean troops. North Korea obviously has nuclear capability as well. This is an extremely dangerous peninsula right now.

Gordon Chang, thank you.

CHANG: Thank you.

BLITZER: Just ahead, reports that a side deal to the Iran nuclear agreement. Will Iran be able to carry out its own inspections at one of its sites? Plus, new numbers on what the Americans think of the nuclear deal with

Iran.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:57:11] BLITZER: The State Department is downplaying a report of a secret side deal to the Iran nuclear deal. According to the Associated Press, Iran will be able to allow its own inspectors at a military site where suspected nuclear work may have taken place, but the Obama administration says Iran won't be carrying out those inspections alone.

Let's bring in our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, who has been reporting on this.

Jim, what do we know about the reported deal between Iran at the IAEA?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This is what U.S. officials have told me. This is a military site. This goes to what they refer to as the past military dimensions of Iran's program. Did Iran in the past try to build a nuclear bomb? That is the key question here. This has been a long issue because the feeling has been that Iran has not completely fessed up. Iranian inspectors, in effect, will be doing the inspecting on their own and handing the samples back to the IAEA. I'm told by a senior State Department official that's not the way it will work. They will be taking part but under the oversight of the IAEA. Based on past practices, this is something that they've been doing a number of years for a number of countries. Either they will be present there or watching on video camera and they would, of course, test the material picked up there. From the administration's point of view, yes, Iran is involved but Iran is not doing this on their own.

BLITZER: In a brand-new CNN/ORC poll, 56 percent of Americans think that Congress should reject the deal, up from 52 percent in July. 44 in July said they should approve the deal and now 41 percent. Those are numbers that the administration doesn't want to hear.

SCIUTTO: No question. And coming out on both sides of the aisle, Republicans certainly but also Democrats and powerful Democrats, Robert Menendez among them that's reflecting those questions. And questions like this, you know, when you get into the details of this deal as you see what these IAEA inspections, there's a lot there that gives ammunition to the critics to say this is not an agreement we would have made and that now the administration comes back and says it's the best deal possible and the alternatives were no better, in fact, worse. People are expressing opposition leading up to this next important vote.

BLITZER: Only 38 percent approve of the way the president is handling the U.S. Relationship with Iran. 60 percent disapprove in our new poll.

We'll leave it there for now.

I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room." "Newsroom" with Poppy Harlow starts right now.