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Wolf
Train Suspect Had Terrorist Intent; Gunman Faces Multiple Terror Charges; Train Hero Condition Worsens; Gunman Viewed Jihadi Videos Before Attack; Trump Slammed For Kelly Tweets; Trump Leads in South Carolina. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired August 25, 2015 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Paris, 8:00 p.m. in Palmyra, Syria. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
We begin with breaking news.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: A prosecutor has just laid out multiple terror charges against the heavily armed gunman in last weekend's attempted attack on a high-speed train. The prosecutor said there is now clear evidence of a terrorist intent on the part of Ayoub El Khazzani who was stopped, subdued and, eventually, hogtied by fellow passengers.
We're also learning much more about this suspect. Prosecutors now say Khazzani went to a mosque known for its radicalism and was known to Spanish police for drug trafficking. He boarded the plane -- the train, I should say, with about 200 rounds of ammunition, a bag full of weapons, including an assault weapon. The Paris prosecutor said he was trying to kill a train full of people. And getting inspiration from terror Web sites.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCOIS MOLINS, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, PARIS, FRANCE (translator): Looking at his Internet usage on the phone that Ayoub El Khazzani was looking at -- whilest (ph) he was on the train on YouTube where on which a jihad -- there were jihadi songs and somebody inspiring people to jihadi acts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Khazzani was taken to a Paris courthouse earlier this morning in a police escorted motorcade.
CNN's Martin Savidge is joining us live from Paris right now. What are the charges and is the suspect talking, Martin?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's the charges that have been outlined by the Paris prosecutor and they include attempted mass murder and also murder or attempted mass murder as well onto that. This is all under what is called the French Terrorism Laws, and then being a member of a terrorist organization.
What what's interesting here is that they're also trying to figure out where exactly was this suspect moving? It's clear there's a lot of detail that the prosecutor brought forward and they're going to be looking at.
Now, going forward in this investigation, he seems to have wandered about Europe but was it just wandering or was there intent here? Where was he headed? And, most important, Wolf, was anybody supporting him? For instance, they said the suspect was homeless in just the days leading up to the attack on the train yet he, apparently, has 149 Euros to be able to afford a first class ticket. How does that happen? It implies that the French believe he was supported in some way, hence being a member of a terrorist organization -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Do we know if he is talking to prosecutors, to law enforcement authorities or is he shutting up?
SAVIDGE: He has definitely shut up, at this point. You know, it started off that he was apparently talking. He was telling this story that he had no intention of carrying out a terrorist attack. This was going to be a robbery on board the train. He found the weapons, apparently, in a park, he says, in a suitcase, most of which the authorities clearly do not believe.
But then, as they began following up, talking to him more severely and intensely, he got more and more silence and they say now he's invoked his right of silence is the way the French put it which would be apparently he is not going to speak on the fear of possible incrimination.
BLITZER: And tell us about the condition of the fifth man who was involved in this attack, this incident on this high speed train, a joint -- a dual U.S.-French citizen.
SAVIDGE: Yes, this is Mark Moogalian. And, initially, it was described that he had been wounded. He's a Franco American, meaning he was born in the U.S. but he has French citizenship, that he was wounded and he was the first to confront the shooting suspect.
But the prosecutor tells a very different story, that, apparently, he was actually in that fray, that fracas on the train as the three Americans, and now it appears that a fourth American, were all trying to stop this gunman. And that somehow a gun goes off, believed to belong to the terrorist. And that it's that gun that wounds him in the neck and, unfortunately, we are told that his medical condition deteriorated overnight. He's being treated at a hospital about two hours north of the city -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Well, let's hope that he's going to be OK. Thanks very much. We'll stay in touch with you, Martin. We appreciate it.
SAVIDGE: We also got a treasure trove of new information about the suspect and his movements from the French prosecutor. Let's bring in our Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank. He's the co-author of the book "Agent Storm, My Life Inside Al Qaeda." Also joining us, our Law Enforcement Analyst, the former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes.
Paul, El Khazzani traveled to Turkey as we now know. That's very significant and tell us why.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it's very, very significant indeed because all these European extremists have traveled to Turkey to try to get to Syria. We know that he traveled on May 10 from Berlin to Istanbul. We actually reported that yesterday on your show.
[13:05:07] But very interesting, we now know he came back on June 4. And he came back through Antakya in Turkey which is just 15 miles from the Syrian border in southern Turkey. He took a flight from there to Istanbul and then via Albania, a very convoluted way back into Europe, suggesting he was trying to fly back under the radar screen into Europe. Investigators believe that he was trying to get into Syria to join ISIS.
What is not yet clear, at the moment, is whether he actually managed to get over into Syria or whether he, perhaps, met ISIS operatives in Turkey because we know that ISIS has a significant presence throughout Turkey especially in the southern region -- Wolf.
BLITZER: How significant is that, Tom, that he actually went to Turkey? We don't know if he actually made it into Syria or not.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Wolf, there's many ISIS cells throughout Turkey, you know, to help people get into Syria but also just in Turkey itself to equip them or prepare them to either go into Syria or talk them into going home and doing an attack there. So, you know, the presumption here is that he linked up with a cell there.
And if he didn't get into Syria, he was determined to go back. And at somewhere along the trail on his way back, before he got on that train, he met up with people that provided by him with those weapons. He wouldn't have been able to fly with them but had no problem boarding a train heavily armed and carrying those weapons with him.
BLITZER: And the question that they're looking at, as we -- as Martin Savidge pointed out, he did buy a first class ticket, even though he's supposedly a homeless guy on that high speed train from Amsterdam to Paris. Also, Paul, he had a lot of weapons and he had a lot of ammunition which are not necessarily all that easy to get. The question is was he acting alone or was he part of a cell?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, they'll be looking at that very, very closely. Did he have contacts in the sort of criminal underworld that were able to get him these weapons? We've seen a lot of people involved in petty crime who've had access to weapons. In fact, even violent crime, getting involved in jihadism later on as a way to sort of redeem their past criminal behavior. So, he may well have had contacts.
It appears that he was linked to, sort of, drug investigations in Spain, so maybe he used some of those contacts to get these weapons. They're still investigating where exactly he got the weapons from. But the investigation is looking at whether he had a connection to some kind of terrorist cell inside Syria or inside Turkey that may have directed him to launch this attack.
Interesting, back in April, there was a French ISIS cell in Turkey that directed an Algerian student in Paris to launch a terrorist attack against churches. And they actually discussed online, after meeting in Turkey, the idea of hitting passenger trains. That's one of the key lines of inquiry right now, whether there's a connection to this French ISIS cell operating in Turkey -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Tom, very quickly, you don't buy at all his lawyer's assertion, he was simply planning to rob some of the train passengers, right?
FUENTES: No, that's ridiculous. He was not. And I think the prosecutors are, you know, pretty clear on that fact. But, you know, one additional point, as far as other people involved, somebody had to be providing funding for him to be flying all over Europe or taking trains all over Europe, going Turkey, coming back. And that suitcase had about a thousand dollars' worth of weaponry in it, between the AK- 47, a couple hundred rounds of ammunition, the magazines cost money, the extra magazines, the nine millimeter pistol.
So, all of that is not cheap. So, to have a thousand dollars or more worth of weaponry, along with a first class ticket, somebody helped him get that far along the way. That's the question is who? Who helped him and how big of a group is it, and did they know what he was going to do?
BLITZER: And he had something that didn't cost a lot of money as well, namely a box cutter which is, obviously, very, very deadly.
All right, guys, thanks very much.
Up next, what a difference a day makes. Markets in Europe and the U.S. bouncing back today. We're going to take you live to the New York Stock Exchange. We're going to find out what's behind the turnaround.
And later, Jeb Bush back on the campaign trail today strongly defending his comments on the controversial term, anchor babies. Will his explanation satisfy his critics? We'll discuss.
[13:09:27]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The Republican presidential front runner, Donald Trump, is at it again. He's attacking the Fox News channel anchor, Megyn Kelly. Remember, Trump first attacked her on social media after that first Republican presidential debate. Last night, he added this retweet referring to her as a bimbo. He didn't say bimbo but he retweeted a tweet from someone else calling her a bimbo.
Let's go to our Senior Media Correspondent Brian Stelter. He's joining us now from New York. A very tough response today from Fox, Brian.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this came out a few minutes ago, Wolf, from the chairman of Fox News, Roger Ailes. He is a Republican Party king maker. Before he created Fox News, he advised the presidential candidates on the right like Ronald Reagan. So, to see him slamming Donald Trump, well, I've never seen a statement like this from Roger Ailes.
Let's put part of it on the screen. It says that Megyn Kelly has his full support. It starts by saying, Donald Trump's surprise and unprovoked attack on Megyn Kelly during her show last night is as unacceptable as it is disturbing. Megyn Kelly represents the very best of American journalism and all of us at Fox News reject the crude and irresponsible attempts to suggest otherwise.
He went on to say that Donald Trump rarely apologizes. We all know that by now. He says, Donald Trump rarely apologizes but, in this case, he should. The statement went on to say that we have never been deterred by politicians or anyone else attacking us for doing our job, much less allowed ourselves to be bullied by anyone. And we're certainly not going to start now.
[13:15:00] This is all the more notable, Wolf, because a couple of weeks ago we did see Trump going after Megyn Kelly repeatedly and Fox mostly stayed quiet. Megyn Kelly tried to stay above the fray. Roger Ailes tried to make peace with Trump through a series of phone calls after that presidential debate where Trump was so angry. All of this stems from the tough questioning Megyn Kelly did at that debate.
Journalists like you and I, I think, were pretty impressed by that debate. We saw a lot of challenging questions asked to all the candidates. But, as we know, Donald Trump did not like it one bit. He's been going after Megyn Kelly pretty much ever since. But this latest ratcheting up of the rhetoric seems to me like there is now a war between Fox and Trump again.
BLITZER: And in this particular latest chapter in this war between Donald Trump and Megyn Kelly, Donald Trump clearly started it. It's not as if she said anything on her show last night attacking Donald Trump, right?
STELTER: Yes, it was a pretty mellow broadcast. You know, she was covering all sorts of news on Monday night. Something that she said must have provoked him because he put up a series of tweets and we can put one of them up on screen, I think. He said, "I like 'The Kelly File' better when Kelly's not there." She had substitute hosts filling in for her last week.
He then went on to retweet fans of his who were criticizing her. As you mentioned, one of them calling her a bimbo. Another one calling her a waste. You know, this is shocking for many reasons. One, it's the GOP front-runner attacking one of the biggest stars on Fox News. And, of course, Fox News is the preferred channel of conservatives. Preferred channel of the Republican Party.
So what we see here, I think, going on is, is this infighting that's happening within the conservative movement. We also see it playing out on television. For her part, though, Megyn Kelly is just trying to do her job. She's just trying to lay low, try to appear to be above the fray. But the fact that Ailes is now defending her so forcefully suggesting to me this is going to go on now. We're seeing a dramatic escalation in this fight.
BLITZER: We'll see if Donald Trump actually does apologize as Roger Ailes is recommending he do.
STELTER: Yes.
BLITZER: All right, thanks for that, Brian Stelter reporting for us.
Let's get some analysis on what we just heard. Alex Castellanos is joining us. He's a founder of newrepublican.org. He's also chairman of Purple Strategies. And Hilary Rosen is with us, our CNN political commentator.
What do you think is going on over here? It's pretty unusual, Alex, for Donald Trump to be going after Megyn Kelly after everyone thought that -- that little part of the battle was dying down.
ALEX CASTELLANOS, CHAIRMAN, FOUNDER OF NEWREPUBLICAN.ORG: Wow, there's a lot going on here. One is, this is about who's the boss of Fox. For the past week or two, the boss of Fox has been Donald Trump. He's been running the place, getting almost the anchors kicked off the air. Roger Ailes has become the boss of Fox and defended his troops again today.
The second thing that's happening here is, Donald Trump has a problem with treating women respectfully. In the long run, that's not a good thing for someone who's running for president of the United States.
BLITZER: No.
CASTELLANOS: And the third thing is, this is not very stable presentation from Donald Trump. You know, if he blows up his relationship with Fox as a candidate, that's one thing. That's him. But if he were president and blew up our relationship with the Soviet Union, with Russia and Putin, holy smokes, that could have severe consequences. So those two things really hurt, I think, Donald Trump in the long run.
BLITZER: And let's point out that both Fox and Megyn Kelly point out her vacation last week was long scheduled. It was previously scheduled. It was not a result of the criticism she was facing from Donald Trump.
What do you make of this Hilary?
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and even more support obviously today from Roger Ailes. You know, the -- usually politicians not only don't pay a price when they attack the media, the public likes them a little better because the -- you know, the public isn't very fond of the media and political journalists.
COSTELLANOS: Unless they attack Wolf.
ROSEN: But Fox in particular has an enormous amount of loyalty among their conservative viewers. So how this is seen, it's a -- it's a partnership in many ways, the way that they describe it. So the fact that he is trying to divide his base from Fox I think is, you know, it's a big, risky strategy and I think Alex is exactly right, the fact that he's chosen Megyn Kelly in such an immature, disrespectful way, like really immature, is just -- you know, not only is it appalling, we'll see. I think it's going to have repercussions.
BLITZER: And since the debate, the Republican debate, he's been a guest on several of the Fox shows, including Bill O'Reilly's show last night. So it's not as if he's been absent from the Fox News Channel at all.
CASTELLANOS: It seems small. It seems petty. It seems thoughtless. He's biting the hand that feeds him and that can't be good for him politically.
BLITZER: All right, guys stand by, there's much more to discussing, including the latest war that's going on between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. The use of that controversial term "anchor babies." A lot more coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:24:00] BLITZER: Jeb Bush is back on the campaign trail today speaking at a veterans event in Colorado. At the end of the event, he responded to a question about the use of the controversial term "anchor babies" that he made yesterday. First I'll play yesterday's remark.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What I was talking about was the specific case of fraud being committed where there's organized efforts -- and frankly it's more related to Asian people -- coming into our country, having children, in that organized effort, taking advantage of a noble concept with this birth right citizenship. I support the 14th Amendment. Nothing about what I've said is -- should be viewed as derogatory words immigrants at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And here's what Jeb Bush said about that less than two hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: My record not just yesterday but over my lifetime is one that people can look at. I was talking about a very narrow casted system of fraud where people are bringing children -- bringing pregnant women in to have babies to get birth right citizenship. I support birth right citizenship, by the way. I support it. I think that is a noble thing that we should do. [13:25:12] I'm 62 years old. When I was 17 years old, I fell in love
with Columba Garnica Bush. And it's going to be really hard for me to get lectured to by anybody about the politics of immigration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, once again, Alex Castellanos and Hilary Rosen are with us.
Alex, I'll start with you again. What do you think of that exchange, the clarification, the whole uproar that's developed over the use of the terms "anchor babies"?
CASTELLANOS: We're looking for a strong president to keep this country from spinning apart. And there at the end you saw some strength. Nobody's going to lecture me. But there's still a little rust on Jeb Bush, you know. It wasn't -- I wasn't insulting Hispanics, I was insulting Asians." No, that's not exactly where you want -- you don't want that to be the focus of the debate, especially when everyone knows that Jeb Bush is not a guy who discriminates against anyone.
ROSEN: Yes, and, you know, this anchor baby issue just acknowledged that Latino immigrants resent the use of the word. Stop using it. It's, you know, when people who are discriminated against decide that that is an offensive word, just accept that, don't try and justify it over and over again.
But, you know, here's the problem. Jeb Bush is just twisting himself in knots, the poor thing, trying to figure out how to take some of that Trump momentum away. And he keeping getting caught up in it completely awkwardly.
BLITZER: Here's a new poll that just came out today, Monmouth University poll, on South Carolina Republicans. Trurmp at 30 percent, Ben Carson, 15, Bush is down to 9. Everybody else in single digits. Lindsey Graham only 4 percent. He's the senior senator from South Carolina right now.
You're from North Carolina, Alex, why is he doing so well in South Carolina right now?
CASTELLANOS: In southern states, you know, the confederate flag really, for a lot of southerners, wasn't a flag about the civil war or racism, it was the leave me alone, get the hell out of my way, tell Washington to listen to me flag. And there's this core in the south that still feels that way. Donald Trump is the replacement, in a way, for that confederate flag.
BLITZER: Here's a -- listen to this, Hilary. Trump tweeted this after this poll in South Carolina came out. He said, "congrats @lindseygraham. See, you just got four points in your home state, South Carolina. Far better than zero nationally. You're only 26 points behind me." And then later Lindsey Graham was on CNN with Kate Bolduan and he said this.
CASTELLANOS: What a compliment. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Come to South Carolina and I'll beat his brains out. I know my state. Donald Trump is not going to be the nominee of the Republican Party. If he is, that's the end of the Republican Party, because what he is doing is --
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: If -- so if he is, what do you do?
GRAHAM: Well, then we'll lose. We'll lose and we should lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: There's been a war going on between Lindsey Graham and Donald Trump, as well know.
ROSEN: Yes.
BLITZER: Donald Trump released his cell phone number.
ROSEN: Yes.
BLITZER: Lindsey Graham then destroyed that cell phone. But this is getting a lot more serious.
ROSE: Again, some immature of Donald Trump, you know, to sort of tweet at him and -- about the polling. It just -- it just doesn't befit a presidential candidate. I think what we're finding though in the Republican primary is, we started out here saying, Republicans have an amazingly strong field. This is going to be a really tough choice. People like all of these governors and all of these, you know, folks with all this experience and all of a sudden we have Republicans kind of not so excited about their traditional choices and going elsewhere. Ben Carson and Donald Trump are, you know, taking a lot of that heat.
BLITZER: And Lindsey Graham also, at one point, basically said that Donald Trump was an idiot, he didn't know anything about the Middle East. He was -- he was really going after him very, very sharp words.
CASTELLANOS: Really going after -- and I think Hilary's right, this is immature. There's an old Cuban saying, never spit straight up. Donald Trump is spitting straight up now. This has got a long way to go. And he who laughs last is going to last best I think here.
BLITZER: But also Donald Trump, he's been, in the last 24 hours, he's had negative tweets about Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, George Pataki, Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton. He's sort of been relentless.
ROSEN: Yes.
BLITZER: All right, let's move on and talk about --
ROSEN: So here's my message, grow up Donald Trump.
BLITZER: You know what, but, in fairness to Donald Trump, he's still doing great in all those Republican polls nationally and in all the early states.
ROSEN: Which -- which means he gets 10 percent of the country. When you're leading 25 to 28 percent of Republicans, you're basically still only at 10 percent of Americans.
BLITZER: But if you were running for president, though, and you've been a political activist for a long time.
ROSEN: It might be enough to win the Republican primary.
BLITZER: If you're running in South Carolina, at this stage, you'd rather get 30 percent than 15 or 6 or 4.
ROSEN: Yes, but -- but you've got to be able to grow from there. You've got to show -- act presidential. This is not presidential.
BLITZER: But every time he gets into these uproars, his numbers go up, right?
[13:30:02] CASTELLANOS: For now. But at the end of the day -- right now he's a good vehicle for Republican frustration.
