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Last Night's Republican Debate; Fiorina And Trump Battle Over Business; Christie Blasts Trump And Fiorina For Bragging; Bush Defends Brother; Christie Will Prosecute Hillary Clinton; Carson's Debate Style; Hillary Clinton Interview Later Today; Republican Debate Analysis; Interview with Sen. Lindsey Graham. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired September 17, 2015 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 10:00 a.m. here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. It's 1:00 p.m. in Washington, 7:00 p.m. Paris, 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
The dust is still settling here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. Fifteen Republican Presidential candidates in two separate debates took turns hammering each other, while all -- while also touting their own accomplishments, both big or small.
With as many as 23 million people here in the United States watching this prime-time event, the topics ranged from foreign policy to faces, as each candidate tried to gain ground with voters and stay relevant in this race for the White House. Here are some of the highlights from last night's battle.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: The 11 leading Republican candidates for president are at their podiums. Anything could happen over the next few hours.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we are, in fact, the A team. We even have our own Mr. T who doesn't mind saying, you're a fool.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Rand Paul shouldn't even be on this stage. He's number 11. He's got one percent in the polls.
RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: His visceral response to attack people on their appearance, my goodness, that happened in junior high.
TAPPER: Donald Trump said the following about you, quote, "Look at that face, would anyone vote for that?"
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think women all over this country heard, very clearly, what Mr. Trump said.
SCOTT WALKER (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump, we don't need an apprentice in the White House, we have one right now. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I were sitting at home and watching this back and forth, I'd be inclined to turn it off.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a Republican in New Jersey. I wake up every morning as an outsider.
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I, in no way, am willing to get into bed with special interest groups or lick the boots of billionaires.
BUSH: You wanted casino gambling in Florida.
TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE.)
BUSH: Yes, you did.
TRUMP: Totally false.
BUSH: You wanted it and you didn't get it --
TRUMP: I would've gotten it.
BUSH: -- because I was opposed to casino gambling before, --
TRUMP: I promise, I would've gotten it.
BUSH: -- during and after.
MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These are extraordinarily dangerous times we live in and the next president of the United States better be someone who understands these issues and has good judgment about them.
TRUMP: I didn't want to go into Iraq, and I fought it. Your brother --
BUSH: (INAUDIBLE.)
TRUMP: -- and your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama.
BUSH: As it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe.
CHRISTIE: Here's the problem, we're fighting with each other up here. We agree. Let's ask Hillary Clinton. She's the real opponent. She's the real problem.
FIORINA: If you want to stump a Democrat, ask them to name an accomplishment of Mrs. Clinton's.
BUSH: Eveready. It's very high energy, Donald.
TAPPER: Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: Humble.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: All right. Let's break down some of those highlights. Joining us here, our Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein, our CNN Political Commentators Dan Pfeiffer, Ana Navarro and Jeffrey Lord. You already heard a little of the Trump-Fiorina exchange over comments involving looks. The two also battled over their shared area of expertise business. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FIORINA: I led Hewlett-Packard through a very difficult time. The worst technology recession in 25 years.
TRUMP: She can't run any of my companies. That I can tell you.
FIORINA: You ran up mountains of debt, as well as losses, using other people's money and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once, --
TRUMP: I know the facts (INAUDIBLE.)
FIORINA: -- not twice, four times. A record four times.
TRUMP: I've made over $10 billion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. Ron, who got the better of those exchanges between Fiorina and Trump?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think on the appearance exchange, clearly, Fiorina, who delivered a kind of understated retort that was more powerful because it was understated.
On the business side, I think it was more of a case of mutually assured destruction. I mean, I think they both pointed to vulnerabilities in the other and neither, I think, has heard the last of the arguments that were raised last night about their business career and business experience..
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Chris Christie got the best of that debate with that exchange. We didn't put it, but, at some point, he be interjects and says, OK, kids, enough. You're both really, really rich. That's great for you. Now, let's go and talk policy.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, the problem with that, Ana, is Carly Fiorina also said that they were like -- the politicians and the insiders were like fish and water. They didn't know they were in water. It was very fascinating to hear Chris Christie chastise them for talking about their record in the private sector. But he's all about, as was every other elected official on the stage, touting their own personal record as elected official.
DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think Christie was -- he was -- it was a -- it was a good exchange for him, in the sense that he seemed witty. But he's swimming upstream. This is an outsider's --
LORD: Yes.
PFEIFFER: -- moment in a Republican Party, and he's making an insider's argument.
The other thing I would take away from that, I think Fiorina was great in this debate. She took advantage of her moment.
LORD: Yes.
[13:05:00] PFEIFFER: What she -- what I think Trump exposed, because he certainly read her opposition research file very closely, is that if she were the nominee, she has Romney-style vulnerabilities in her business record that any Democrat would exploit.
BLITZER: Ana, I know you like your good friend, Jeb Bush. You're friendly with Marco Rubio. Was this -- a lot of commentators suggesting this was not necessarily Donald Trump's best night. I assume you agree with that?
PFEIFFER: She doesn't think Trump has any good nights.
NAVARRO: Actually, I have to say that I thought that moment where he said -- where he came out of character, and it was almost like, you know, acknowledging it's all an act, and said his secret service name would be humble. That was hilarious.
And when he had that low five exchange, because, you know, Jeb Bush is six foot four, so I think high fiving Jeb can be difficult for anybody. I thought that was actually refreshing to see and it was a nice moment. Perhaps one of the better moments for Trump, who did not have a good night, he went for stretches of time --
UNIDENFITIED MALE: Yes.
NAVARRO: -- that were beyond 30 minutes without talking. It might be the first time in his life that has happened.
BLITZER: Although all the people who took over -- nearly three hours of that debate, he got the most air time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got the most questions.
BLITZER: Almost 20 minutes or so, --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BLITZER: -- compared to everyone else who was just a little bit lower. Listen to this. I'll play a little sound bite for you, Jeffrey. And I know you support Donald Trump. Here's a little comment from Jeb Bush about his brother.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: Your brother and your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama, because it was such a disaster those last three months that Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected.
BUSH: You know what, as it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe.
HUGH HEWETT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWETT SHOW": On behalf of the military that is watching, the active duty military that are at the end of the spear, what kind of commander in chief is Jeb Bush going to be and who are the advisers that are new to your team?
BUSH: Well, first of all, Hugh, if you're looking at Republican advisers, you have to go to the last two administrations that happen to be 41 and 43.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: So, is that a problem, --
LORD: Yes.
BLITZER: --- his top national security advisers would be former advisers to his father --
LORD: Right, right.
BLITZER: -- and his brother?
LORD: Here's the problem with this. Within the Republican Party -- if you notice the other day, he pulled his shirt open to reveal a Reagan-Bush t-shirt. There was always -- I was in that campaign. There was always a little bit of subrosa (ph) attention there between the Reaganites and the Bushies. All of this is sort of, now, first out in the open. It's a first cousin to the outsider-insider situation. And the problem is that within the Republican Party, there are significant numbers of people who George W. Bush did keep us safe.
But on domestic spending and a whole lot of domestic issues, no child left behind, expanding the government, they're furious at him. And he wound up his presidency in the (INAUDIBLE) CBS poll with 22 percent of the, you know, popularity. And that's been a problem for Republicans ever since.
BROWNSTEIN: And clearly it is. But, you know, in the end, I think most of the campaigns still believe there will be one finalist in this race from the center right establishment lane and one finalist from the more populous conservative lane.
And although Jeb Bush has to engage with Donald Trump, because the difficulty in doing so has hurt his overall image, in the end, he's not really running against Donald Trump today. He's running today more against John Kasich, Chris Christie, maybe Marco Rubio, to lead that center right lane. Whereas Trump is really more, I think, in a pool of people like Carson, Scott Walker, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, who have more at risk if Trump does not --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Look, I --
BLITZER: Hold on -- hold on a minute because I want to get to this clip from Chris Christie. And, Jeff, I know you were the political director during the Reagan White House years. You served under President Obama. And Hillary Clinton and President Obama were, obviously, attacked by a lot of these Republican candidates last night. Listen to the New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, Dan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: We lost friends that day. We went to the funerals. And I will tell you that what those people wanted and what they deserved was for America to answer back against what had been done to them. And I support what President Bush did at that time.
I'm as entertained as anyone by this personal back and forth about the history of Donald and Carly's career. For the 55-year-old construction worker out in that audience tonight who doesn't have a job, who can't fund his child's education, I got to tell you the truth, they could care less about your careers.
The question is, who's going to prosecute Hillary Clinton? The Obama White House seems to have in interest. The Justice Department seems to have no interest. I think it's time to put a former federal prosecutor on the same stage as Hillary Clinton, and I will prosecute her during those debates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, Dan, I want you to respond to that. Go ahead.
PFEIFFER: Chris Christie actually exposes the entire fallacy of the Republican argument here. He says, the people were very upset after 911. We have to go after them. The people (INAUDIBLE) were not in Iraq. This was the greatest, strategic mistake in this century from the American government. And so, he is in the same challenge that everyone else is.
I would say also, the idea that this -- Chris Christie delivers his lines well but the answer is Hillary Clinton did all these things wrong, so I'm going to show her on the debate stage is not a particularly compelling answer from him.
[13:10:01] BLITZER: Well, he says, as a former U.S. attorney, he's going --
PFEIFFER: Right.
BLITZER: -- to go after her --
PFEIFFER: After her on the debate stage style.
BLITZER: -- on the debate stage.
PFEIFFER: Like, I'm sure every Republican will do that.
BLITZER: And will prosecute her during those debates, if he gets the Republican presidential nomination.
PFEIFFER: Which is unlikely, is my guess.
NAVARRO: I think it might be a little bit more compelling to Republicans that might meet your eye.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWNSTEIN: I was struck that three separate candidates last night criticized the decision to go into Iraq. Trump, Paul and Carson all criticized it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, right.
BROWNSTEIN: And kind of -- It was one of many issues where we heard notes that we don't usually hear in a Republican Presidential debate, raising the minimum wage with Carson and Santorum; criminal justice reform where Fiorina and several others said that the (INAUDIBLE) --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leftism.
BLITZER: All right, stand by, we have much more to discuss.
By the way, Hillary Clinton will be my live guest later today in "THE SITUATION ROOM," 5:00 p.m. Eastern. We'll get her reaction to what's been said about her last night. We'll have much coverage coming up, much more analysis.
And what happened here at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library last night, including much more on Dr. Ben Carson, his calm, non-combative demeanor, his handshake with Donald Trump. Did it help him? Did it potentially hurt him?
And later, analysts are declaring Lindsey Graham the winner of the earlier debate, but can he turn his performance into higher numbers in the polls? Senator Lindsey Graham will join me live. That's coming up this hour as well.
[13:11:25]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:15:29] BLITZER: It was their moment to shine. Last night's Republican primary debate here at the Simi Valley library of the late president, Ronald Reagan, gave some of the middle tier candidates a chance to try to break out of the pack. So how did they do?
Let's bring back our panel. Our senior political analyst Ron Brownstein, our CNN political commentators Dan Pfeiffer, Ana Navarro and Jeffrey Lord.
Ron, let's talk a little bit about Dr. Ben Carson.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
BLITZER: He's been doing really well in the polls, most of the national polls, the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, he seems to be second, just behind Donald Trump. We'll see what the fallout is from this debate. But he offered his usual measured --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
BLITZER: Calm style last night.
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
BLITZER: Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have no argument with having a strong leader and to be aggressive where aggression is needed. But it's not needed in every circumstance. There is a time when you can use your intellect to come up with other ways to do things. And I think that's what we have to start thinking about. There is no question that a lot of these problems that we have been talking about in terms of the international situation is because we are weak. It's because our Navy is so small. It's because our Air Force is incapable of doing the same things that it did a few years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
BLITZER: All right, so what did you think? Because, as you point out, three of those Republican candidates actually last night were bragging about the fact they opposed the war in Iraq in 2003?
BROWNSTEIN: They opposed. Carson is not an in your face presence. I mean he is really almost counterprogramming to most of the rest of the field. He's cool where many of them, certainly Trump, is hot, and it has been working for him so far. It's striking because his demeanor and his message are very much at odds. He is kind of calm, cool and collected. It's a pretty ideological message. Last night even going -- kind of reversing himself somewhat and saying that if someone could show him a feasible way to deport 11 million people, he would look at it. So this kind of contrast has been working for him. I think mostly in counterpoint to the -- the other candidates. I'm not sure, in the long run, it projects enough kind of presidential vigor and strength, but we'll see.
BLITZER: Scott Walker --
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he said to you yesterday, Carson, I think you interviewed him and he said, you know, let Carson be Carson. And we've seen him be true to character consistently.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This has appeal for a lot of folks.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LORD: And, obviously, no -- no question.
BLITZER: Oh, and he's doing very well -- he's doing very well in the polls.
Scott Walker, not so well in the polls right now.
LORD: No.
BLITZER: The Wisconsin governor. He was doing well in -- especially in neighboring Iowa.
LORD: Right.
BLITZER: His numbers have gone down, but he did have a few zingers at Donald Trump. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump, we don't need an apprentice in the White House. We don't need an apprentice in the White House. We have one right now. He told us all the things we wanted to hear back in 2008. We don't know who you are or where you're going. We need someone who can actually get the job done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Were you surprised that he went after the man you like, Donald Trump, directly, forcefully like that?
LORD: No. No. I mean -- no. I mean, I thought, if you're going to stay alive, this is one of the things they had to do. I mean, I bet they worked on that line for weeks. You know, so he delivered it. And I don't think it's going to help him very much in the polls.
Scott Walker's problem -- he's a -- he's a great guy. He's a good governor. But, once again, we have this outsider/insider situation. And, as amazing as it is to be the governor of Wisconsin or any governor is seen in that -- in that sort of contextual fashion.
NAVARRO: That's not his problem. His problem is, he is more deflated than the balls at the New England Patriots --
LORD: Well --
BLITZER: Uh-oh! Uh-oh!
NAVARRO: He has made so many mistakes. He's flip-flopped on positions.
LORD: Yes.
NAVARRO: He hasn't been forceful. And these debates, now twice, you know, two debates --
LORD: Yes.
NAVARRO: He's been painted on the wall. I mean, you know -- BROWNSTEIN: Fades into the drapes.
DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he -- he's out of his league. He's a class A player who can't make it in the major leagues. His -- I mean I would -- his campaign is over. I think, because we're only a moment --
BROWNSTEIN: I think you're right. I think you're right.
PFEIFFER: We're only months away from him coming after --
NAVARRO: And, you know, and you started -- you start to read today about some of his donors saying that they're getting antsy and they're look at other candidates --
PFEIFFER: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
LORD: Yes.
PFEIFFER: (INAUDIBLE) Rick Perry.
BLITZER: You think he's going to be one of the next to drop out? Is that what you're saying?
PFEIFFER: I think he -- he has a -- he has some super PAC money, so he can probably hang in there for a while. But I think his chance of being the nominee is long past now.
BLITZER: If you remember, some are already saying he's going to be the Tim Pawlenty --
NAVARRO: Yes.
LORD: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, I mean look, he was some --
BLITZER: The former -- the former Minnesota governor who dropped out even before the Iowa caucus.
LORD: Right. Right.
NAVARRO: Well, the good news is, Tim Pawlenty now has a very good job and has a lot of money, so there is life after politics.
(CROSS TALK)
BROWNSTEIN (ph): (INAUDIBLE) part of the problem.
BLITZER: A sound bite from Marco Rubio.
LORD: Yes.
BLITZER: He's getting good -- good reviews on this day after. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My grandfather instilled in me the belief that I was blessed to live in the one society in all of human history where even I, the son of a bartender and a maid, could aspire to have anything and be anything that I was willing to work hard to achieve. But he taught me that in Spanish, because it was the language he was most comfortable in. And he became a conservative, even though he got his news in Spanish. And so I do give interviews in Spanish. And here's why. Because I believe that free enterprise and limited government is the best way to help people who are trying to -- who are trying to achieve upward mobility. And if they get their news in Spanish, I want them to hear that directly from me, not from a translator at Univision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[13:20:26] BLITZER: Because, Jeffrey, you know, you're guy, Donald Trump, says speak English --
LORD: Right. Right. Yes.
BLITZER: This is the United States.
LORD: Right.
BLITZER: And he's told Jeb Bush, don't speak Spanish.
LORD: Here's the problem. The question has become here about assimilation. I mean great, speak as many languages as you want. Personally, I think Americans should speak two or three or four. But the fact of the matter is, we're an English-speaking nation. And if we're going to start doing this, then what about the Irish? What about the Germans? I mean we can just -- people are in this country from every corner of the world. To sort of, you know, try and say that we're going to inject this culture and it's going to reign supreme over American culture, that's where the --
(CROSS TALK)
NAVARRO: Donald's always making the argument that he's going to reign supreme over -- I mean we all come here and try to assimilate.
LORD: Yes.
NAVARRO: If you want to have any level of success, you have to.
LORD: Well, that -- that's not what Jorge Ramos says.
NAVARRO: I loved -- I love this -- Jorge Ramos speaks English.
LORD: Yes.
NAVARRO: We might speak it with an accent, but we speak it.
LORD: Yes.
NAVARRO: You know, I loved this answer from Marco and I think it -- it tells you that when you get personal, it works in a debate. It think it worked for Carly Fiorina when she spoke about her stepdaughter's death. I think it worked for Marco when he talked about his grandfather who was a huge influence in his life. And I think it, you know, it tells you something about how those candidates were shaped.
BROWNSTEIN: The exchanges about Spanish I think are a reminder to all of us that this is not just about the Republican presidential primary. The ultimate goal is to win back the White House for the Republican Party, which we should remind, has lost the popular vote now in five of the past six presidential elections. They need to find a way to get over the top. And the risk in the debate over whether it is inappropriate to really even speak Spanish in public, he wasn't talking about public documents, is something that has overtones for a generation (ph).
PFEIFFER: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) general election.
NAVARRO: Listen, at least -- at least no mandarin Chinese was spoken this year.
BLITZER: All right, very quickly, Dan, go ahead.
PFEIFFER: Yes. Look at the Democrat here, the idea that the Republicans in 20 -- heading into the 2016 election would be debating birthright citizenship, deporting 11 million people and the propriety of politicians speaking Spanish, that's a dream come true for the Democrats.
LORD: Yes, I don't think it would work out that way, but --
BLITZER: All right, guys, we're just getting a little breaking news. American Airlines technical issue. It's affecting customers. We're now being told American Airlines tells CNN in an e-mail they are aware of technical issues that are impacting their operations at various airports in the United States. Let me read their statement. "We're working to resolve technical issues impacting several airports as quickly as possible. We'll provide updates, more information as they become available. We apologize to our customers for the inconvenience."
All right, so we're going to make sure we follow this story as well. A lot of people hoping to fly on American Airlines. They may have their flights delayed. We'll get more information and update you as soon as we get more information.
This programming note. Later today, live in "The Situation Room," I'll interview the Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. We'll talk about last night's debate, talk about her opposition from Bernie Sanders, a whole lot more. The interview happens live at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. You'll want to see it. So stay with CNN for that.
Senator Lindsey Graham has been praised for his debate performance last night. Up next, he'll join me live to talk about the big night. What message he hopes he got across to voters. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:27:40] BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer. We're coming to you live today from Simi Valley, California, where four Republican presidential candidates hope their performance in CNN's so-called undercard debate will be enough to shake up the race for the White House and move them to the top tier. For an hour and a half last night, the four exchanged passionate, even witty jabs at topics ranging from taxes to same-sex marriage to Donald Trump. Here are some of the highlights.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our leading candidate gets his foreign policy from watching television. The Cartoon Network. Oh, I'll big, I'm strong, we're going to hit them in the head.
GEORGE PATAKI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee, period. Flat out, I guarantee you that.
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R-LA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They've got a socialist that is gaining on Hillary Clinton. Folks, you can't make that up.
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What the Supreme Court did is against the national law, it's against God's law.
GRAHAM: The wedding cake baker or the gay couple or the Baptist preacher, radical Islam would kill you all if they could.
PATAKI: I would throw out the entire corrupt tax code. It is incomprehensible gobbly gook.
JINDAL: Across the world, dictators walk all over this president.
SANTORUM: Personal attacks just please one person, Hillary Clinton.
GRAHAM: By the end of this debate, it will be the most time I've ever spent in any library.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, one of those four, Senator Lindsey Graham, is joining us now live from Washington.
Senator, thanks very much for joining us. You're getting pretty positive reviews for your performance last night. In particular the substance of what you had to say. Also the humor you brought to the stage. Earlier today, here on CNN, the RNC spokesman, Sean Spicer, said that there might not be a second tier debate next time around next month when there's yet another Republican presidential debate. So how do you break through, like Carly Fiorina did, and make sure you're on that prime-time stage at the next Republican debate? GRAHAM: Well, number one, I just want to say this whole idea of using
polling the way it's being done I think is absurd. The difference between fourth place and last is in the margin of error. So I don't like the whole concept. I think you're taking people's voices out of the mix based on polling in a fashion that was never meant to be used.
I'm trying to concentrate on Iowa and New Hampshire. That's where I hope to break through. I don't have the money to spend on national advertising. So I'll just keep being Lindsey Graham, come on your show, do anything I can to get my message out there. But this whole construct of knocking people out early on based on polling I think undercuts the early primary process and it's not good for democracy.
[13:30:06] BLITZER: Well, those are the rules that the RNC have --
GRAHAM: And they're dumb rules.
BLITZER: Obviously came up with. You've got to -- you've got to live with the rules --
GRAHAM: Yes, I'm a Republican and they're dumb -- yes, they're dumb.
