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Pope Makes History With Speech Before Congress; Pope Says To Defend Human Life At Every Stage; King Reacts To Pope's Speech; Pope Gets Political In Congressional Speech; Pope Francis Gets Political; Interview with Rep. Peter King; The Pope Visits Catholic Charities. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 24, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Pope Frances travels from the halls of power in Washington to the streets of the nation's capital to fellowship with the poor. The third day of the pope's visit to the United States was highlighted by a historic address to Congress and a visit to Catholic Charities in Washington.

His speech to Congress began with the feel, really, of more like a presidential state of the union. Here's just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker, the pope of the holy sea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, Pope Francis is the first pontiff to speak before a joint meeting of Congress. He spoke before a packed House chamber, probably no surprise to anyone. He was flanked by, you saw it just there, vice president Joe Biden and the House speaker, John Boehner, both Catholics themselves. The pope touched on issues ranging from climate change and the death penalty to abortion and immigration. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, POPE OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: We, the people, of this continent, are not fearful of foreigners because most of us -- because most of us were once foreigners. I say this to you as the son of immigrants knowing that so many of you are also descendants from immigrants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, from Capitol Hill, the Pope visited St. Patrick's church and the Washington offices of Catholic Charities. Now, instead of having lunch with lawmakers, he actually met with the homeless and low income families who gathered for a meal provided by the charity.

And later today, the Pope will be leaving Washington and heading here to New York to continue his U.S. tour.

Let's take a much closer look at that historic speech by the pope before that joint session of Congress. Joining me now to discuss from Washington is Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash, Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny and Our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. It's great to see all of you, especially on this amazing day.

Dana, you were there. You were in there listening to all of this play out in person. You've been there many times before. This was so different. Give us a sense of what you saw, what you heard, what you sensed.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's funny that you put it to me that way, Kate, because I was thinking the same thing. It's easy for somebody like me. I have had the privilege of witnessing a lot of states of the union speeches, a lot of, you know, addresses to the -- to the joint meetings, heads of state, all kinds of things. This was something like I have never seen before. Obviously, it was historic. But it wasn't just that.

More importantly, I was looking at this sea of lawmakers who also have good reason to be jaded because they have seen it all, many of them, and heard it all. But the way that the entire room was focused on what the pope was saying, hanging on every word, whether they agreed with what he was saying or not was something like I have never seen before. And it really -- you felt the gravity of the moment. You felt -- I mean, forgive me for saying this, but the spirituality of the moment. No matter what your faith is, no matter even if you have one or if you're atheist, you just -- you could feel it in the room.

BOLDUAN: I think -- I don't think there's any forgiveness needed to feel that when the Pope, Dana, no matter what faith you are. And, Gloria, you were listening to it so closely. He also -- the Pope, in his speech, in a very often subtle and nuanced way, he touched on some very sensitive and politically contentious issues facing America right now. And one of them tied -- he tied the refugee crisis in Europe, also tying it to the immigration problem facing the country here at home.

And this is part of what he said. I want to get your take on it. In part of the speech, he said this. On this continent, too, thousands of persons are led to travel north in search of a better life for themselves and for their loved ones, in search of greater opportunities. Is this not what we want for our child -- our own children? We must not be taken aback by their numbers but rather view them as persons, seeing their faces and listening to their stories, trying to respond as best we can to their situation.

What's your take on the way he addressed this issue that everyone was expecting him to hit on and wondering how he was going to do it?

[13:05:00] GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, we talk about a view from 30,000 feet. This is a cosmic view of the political issues that we're discussing today. You know, our political campaign is mired in what can be a very dark and nasty discussion about immigration and the presidential campaign.

And what the Pope managed to do was take an issue that's become so polarizing and so political, and he said, just look at people's faces. Just understand that these are children. Just understand that the golden rule, do unto others as you -- as you would have done to you, et cetera, et cetera.

So, he took kind of the cynicism, the polarization out of it, and he brought it to politicians in a way that we haven't been discussing in this country and who could disagree with what the Pope said?

BOLDUAN: And that's an excellent point. And when you think of -- the question, of course, is, then, what is the impact of his words, Jeff? I mean, when you look at how immigration has become such a focal point, especially in the Republican primary. When you look at candidates like Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, their take on immigration. And in some way, it made me wonder, in a -- in a -- in a purely political sense, could the Pope's words offer them some amount of cover for their positions for pushing for immigration reform?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, you certainly might think that today, because there certainly is a sense of bipartisanship, something that transcends that, actually. I'm with Dana. We've seen so many speeches here, but this was a different moment. I was standing here, just right in front of the House of Representatives, watching members of Congress from both parties, both chambers, standing side by side, waving to the Pope, trying to get a picture of the Pope. And I thought, wow, I wonder if this will transcend this divide.

I think we're being too optimistic if we think that that's going to be the situation here. Talking to several Republicans, as I have afterward, and several Democrats, they said, look, it might help on the margins. It might help, you know, members talk about things with one another. How we frame things. But I just hope I'm not being too pessimistic by saying I really think we're going to be back at the same sort of level of rhetoric that we have been, you know, leading up to this.

But that doesn't mean that the speech and this day is not important.

BASH: Right.

ZELENY: I think it is and it could have a longer-term effect. But I think we shouldn't kid ourselves that this capitol is suddenly going to become undivided.

BOLDUAN: No, absolutely right. There's no question about that, Jeff. We know -- no one can be too kumbayah about it, unfortunately. I guess we can say unfortunately we can't be too kumbayah about it.

Dana, the Pope also touched on the issue of abortion. And when he -- let me read part of how he addressed it in his speech. He said this, he says, a responsibility to protect and defend life at every stage of its development. This is something many Republicans, of course, they were happy to hear, even though it wasn't, necessarily, maybe as a direct statement maybe they wanted to hear from the Pope.

This is also very appropriate and timely because this is a debate on -- about abortion rights and is also public funding for Planned Parenthood that's happening right now on Capitol Hill. Do you think his words could have an impact there?

BASH: You know, certainly those who -- for example, just on the political, the legislative issue, of Planned Parenthood, those who want to cut off funding, I can't imagine they're not going to use that to try to use it for their benefit. But, yes, you said that it was subtle but everybody got what he was saying. He didn't need to lay it out. It was very, very clear where he was going with that.

And it's an example of how, sort of historically, things have kind of fallen on party lines with regards to pope and the Catholic Church. Historically, it has mostly been Democrats who maybe are Catholic who have had a little bit of discomfort with their own church or the pope.

Nancy Pelosi is a perfect example. She is Catholic. She was, you know, raised that way in a very, you know, kind of traditional manner. But she is also somebody who is very much for abortion rights. And so, she's had some differences with past popes and with the church in and of itself. She's sort of used to being in that position because of that issue.

But I think what was really new here that you really felt were Republicans who were used to agreeing with the church on social issues, abortion is one example, they were, for the first time, really in a position where they were hearing from the Pope, saying things that, you know, not in a scolding way but in a way that --

BOLDUAN: Right.

BASH: -- they didn't agree with, on immigration and on saying, point blank, that climate change is manmade which many Republicans, I think most Republicans in that chamber, don't agree with.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And climate change, the death penalty and many other issues that we haven't even hit on here --

[13:10:00] BASH: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- that he did touch on in that speech. Very powerful, his words. Jeff, Dana, Gloria, thank you so much.

Sill ahead for us, we're talking about all of those that were in the chamber listening to that speech. One man who was there, Peter King. He was one of the many Catholic members of Congress that was in the House chamber for the Pope's -- for the Pope's speech. He's going to join me live to talk about his impressions and thoughts on the Pope and the politics that were brought up.

And later on, we're also going to hear about Hillary Clinton's latest interview. Not with a member of the press but with the creator and star of the HBO series "Girls." I'm going to speak with Lena Dunham, that star, about her discussion with Hillary Clinton. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:04] BOLDUAN: It's pretty neat to see everyone capturing those historic moments.

Pope Francis mixed politics into his address at the White House yesterday, and, today, in a subtle and quite a nuanced way, he also touched on many of the most contentious political issues of the day in his address before that joint meeting of Congress. One person with a front row seat to this historic moment, Republican Congressman Peter King of New York, and he's joining me now from the Capitol.

Congressman, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for taking the time. I want to get you take --

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

I just want to get your take on that moment. What was it like to be in there for that historic moment, hearing the pope speak? Your thoughts?

KING: It was an extremely emotional moment. I was, you know, raised a catholic, am a practicing catholic, went to catholic schools and I'm old enough to remember when John Kennedy ran for president and there were people who were opposed to him, including some religious leaders, and they were saying that a catholic president would try to sneak the pope into the United States. And, sure enough, there you saw the doors open and to see the pope come in with the white vestments and walk down the center aisle of the Congress and have people of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds and racial backgrounds standing up, men and women, applauding him and basically he was speaking universal truths. He was speaking as the leader of the Catholic Church, as a leader in the Christian world, but really espousing truths and beliefs and principles that could be shared by everyone. It was just a very -- again, uplifting, majestic moments.

BOLDUAN: And he did, in his way, seemed to be uplifting. He called for everyone to come together, to work together. And, obviously, was a pretty strong message to members of Congress.

KING: Yes.

BOLDUAN: The pope, he did touch on, though, he didn't shy away from many of the contentious issues facing Congress right now, immigration reform, the refugee crisis, those being two of them. He kind of tied them together. What did you think when he said -- when he said at one point in his speech that we must not be taken aback by their numbers and then also relating it to the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

KING: Yes, well, first of all, my main takeaway from all of those issues was, the pope is saying we have to apply a moral dimension to what we do, which means looking beyond the political victories or defeats of the day and realizing that our decisions have consequences. That's true in any government, but especially in the United States where we are the world's leading power.

Now, on immigration, he was saying don't be afraid of foreigners and look at immigrants as we look at ourselves, and also at the refugees. Now, again, if there's going to be a difference, and I know I was listening to your panel before, I -- yes, I certainly -- I'm a grandson of immigrants. I grew up in an immigrant community. And I certainly, you know, I looked at immigrants or refugees, I do see myself. I certainly see my grandparents and uncles and aunts.

But, again, as leaders of the country, we also have to strike that balance as having secure borders, making sure the law is observed, otherwise we wouldn't have passports or visas. So what I would hope for today, for instance, on immigration, is that if both sides could say, hey, we have to look at this in a moral way, in a humane way, and also in a way that serves the country, if each side can come up with one or two positions on immigration that we could all agree with, start the process going, start going forward, so not having Republicans saying everything is amnesty or not having Democrats basically saying all or nothing. And it doesn't even have to be a comprehensive plan at first. But get it started and start talking civilly to each other. That, I think, would be the -- you know, the right -- to me, the best way to go forward and the best way to follow the pope's teaching. It wouldn't be all that everyone wants and it may be more that some others want --

BOLDUAN: Right.

KING: But as a nation -- and we are a divided government. We've got to find a way to find some common grounds.

BOLDUAN: And, congressman, in listening to you, I mean, you've really -- I get the sense that you -- you weren't just there to sit there. It sounds like you were really listening and taking to heart the message that the pope is trying to give off. You -- I know -- I read that you had spoken to Politico, especially on the issue relating to the Syrian refugee crisis.

KING: Right.

BOLDUAN: Also the Iran deal and his position. And you had said to Politico that his opinions there are no more important than anyone else's. And I wonder if you -- if his speech today, did it change your impression, especially with regards to -- let's talk about the Syrian refugee crisis? Did he change your -- did he change your mind any?

KING: Yes, again, I didn't see the exact quote in Politico and I have said with the Syrian refugees -- no, I mean, it's always, again, any time you have a man of God in the room, it has an impact. No, but I've followed the pope's encyclicals carefully. I've read them. I follow what he says. And I don't agree on some of the political decisions he makes, but I certainly agree on the moral component to it.

And on the refugee crisis, I think we do have an obligation to let in refugees. I supported the boat people. I supported the Bosnian refugees in the 1990s coming to this country. My concern with the Syrian refugees is, whatever we do has to be done in a way where we're not going to be allowing terrorist in because this is different from previous cases. There were no databases. We know that ISIS is trying to bring terrorists into Europe and also into our country. So I have an obligation also. The pope says look after children. Well, I don't want children at a

parade or at a sporting event being blown apparent by a terrorist we allowed into the country. That's that balance we have to strike. Those refugees, yes, we can accommodate a lot more refugees just on the question of numbers. My only concern, and the only concern I've raised, is on the issue of ISIS infiltrating those refugees because they're coming from an area where there is -- there are no background checks, there are no databases.

[13:20:19] BOLDUAN: So do you, congressman, do you think there is a way for Congress to -- just for yourself, to keep with the pope's teaching and his message from this speech and also keep the border -- keep -- keep the country secure, keep the children secure that you're talking about?

KING: Yes, we have to find a way to do it. And I would also say, though, it's not just all on the Republican side because yesterday when the pope was at the White House, he was talking about the importance of religious liberty and people being able to espouse their beliefs, yet the White House sued the Sisters of the Poor. They bought them to court.

BOLDUAN: Uh-huh.

KING: And they also -- yesterday after his visit, my understanding is, to the White House, the pope unexpectedly stopped to visit the Sisters of the Poor. So I think there's really enough here going both ways. Like, for instance, on abortion and also contraception as far as being required.

BOLDUAN: Right.

KING: You know, the Democrats were cheering the pope today. They were also the ones who say that people who espouse the pope's positions on that are waging a war against women. Do they really think the pope is waging a war against women? And we could discuss those issues and throw that other stuff out. Don't be saying you're against women if you believe this and don't saying that you're pro-amnesty or you're pro-open borders or whatever.

BOLDUAN: Right.

KING: Let's just try to have it civil on both sides and do it in a -- in an intelligence way and also a moral way.

BOLDUAN: It will be interesting if he can -- it all shifts that conversation or at least the rhetoric on the conversation around these very politically and personal issues.

KING: Yes, I agree.

BOLDUAN: That I think everyone would enjoy seeing, especially from outside the halls of Congress.

I do want to get your quick take, finally, looking ahead, the pope will be coming to New York later today and he's also going to be visiting the 9/11 Memorial tomorrow.

KING: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Just your thoughts on his decision to go there.

KING: That is certainly very moving to me because I lost so many friends down there and so many people in New York did. And that really is an example of the evil we face in the world today and that people have to stand together. And if I could just inject something in here right now. When the -- when the pope is there, I hope the people in Congress will realize the importance of extending the 9/11 health care bill for the cops and firefighters who are still ill because of what they suffered down there and also the necessity of us being vigilant and also never forget those who died and to see the evils and the dangers of religious extremism. Here you have a tolerant religious leader and you juxtapose that with the evil jihadists who killed 3,000 innocent Americans that day.

BOLDUAN: It will be important and it will be quite a moment having the pope visit that 9/11 Memorial and pray there.

KING: It will (ph).

BOLDUAN: Congressman, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for your time.

KING: Kate, thank you very much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

So while the pope was invited by Republican lawmakers, the House speaker, of course, to address the joint session of Congress, his message resonated with many Democrats. Some of the issues I was just talking about there with Peter King. Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders, he praised the pope on many of the points that he made. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he came here today and touched on some very, very important issues that a lot of people would prefer not to talk about, and that is the issue of poverty, the issue of environmental degradation, immigration, the death penalty, the need to do everything we can to create a peaceful world. And I think he did it in a very dignified and nonpartisan-type way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: You know, following his address to the joint session of Congress, lawmakers invited the pope to stay for lunch. Well, the pope turned them down. We're going to show you what he did instead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:28:06] BOLDUAN: Now, the pope's devotion to the poor is well known. After his election in 2013, the pope adopted the name of St. Francis of Assi, a medieval preacher of poverty and humility. Now speaking during his visit to Washington's Catholic Charities, the pope emphasized the importance of people opening their hearts to charity. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): The son of God came into this world as a homeless person. We can find no social or moral justification, no justification whatsoever for lack of housing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now, Monsignor John Enzler is CEO of Washington's Catholic Charities and he's joining me now on the phone from St. Patrick's in Washington.

Monsignor, thank you so much for joining me.

MONSIGNOR JOHN ENZLER, CEO, CATHOLIC CHARITIES WASHINGTON (via telephone): Oh, so pleased to be here. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Now, the pope, a lot of folks have been talking about this, the pope, he decided to pass on the lunch -- the lunch invitation he was given to have lunch with lawmakers. Instead, going to break bread and be with and speak with low income and the homeless, low-income families and the homeless instead. Can you talk to us -- talk to me about that experience and how people have reacted when he came into meeting -- when they came into meeting the pope?

ENZLER: Well, you know, he was at The Hill, of course. He came into St. Patrick's Church where -- here at (INAUDIBLE) where we have about 250 clients and he greeted them. He spent some time shaking their hands. And then he gave what you just referred to, a very strong talk about homelessness. He talked about Joseph and Mary and how they were essentially homeless, didn't have a place to lay their heads, and how it was not right for that to continue. But then he left there and he came into our chapel for a small blessing. But the highlight for me was he came outside and we had him -- a plan for him to say a few words and to do a blessing of the food. He went right into the crowd. He went right -- he did bless the food, but a very like short blessing.

[13:30:00] But he went right into the crowd where a number of children who are -- who either were part of our program, people we serve's children, were there when they greeted them and that kind of drew him in the crowd. He spent 15 minutes or so in the crowd, walking through them, with tight, tight mass of people.