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Five Democratic Presidential Candidates Take Debate Stage Tomorrow Night; Jailed Journalist's Brother Speaks to CNN. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired October 12, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:08]

DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think her ultimate goal in this debate is to lay out not just what she would do as president but why she's the right person. She needs to connect her very extensive policy experience and agenda with the larger mission of the campaign. If she can do that, I think this will be a successful debate for her.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: Everyone watching basically knows Hillary Clinton but everyone watching does not necessarily know Senator Bernie Sanders. He's got a different mission tomorrow night.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he's introducing himself to the nation. Hillary Clinton has to talk policy and has got to get the policy right. She's known as a policy person. But she also has a likability issue.

The biggest problem she's got right now is trustworthiness. She needs to be able to connect with the audience, not only in the room but also through the TV set, which is a totally different challenge.

Bernie Sanders needs to prove that he is more than just a 74-year-old Socialist from Vermont.

BLITZER: Should he attack her tomorrow night?

Should he be sort of quiet about the differences that they have?

What should be his strategy?

VAN JONES, CNN HOST: First of all, he's got to make a big switch. He's been doing 90-minute speeches in front of 20,000 fans.

How do you go from 90-minute speeches to 90-second answers?

That's tough for anybody. So he has got to make that switch, just realize I'm not in front of a bunch of adoring fans. I have got four people against me out there that I'm going to have to debate.

We don't know if he can debate. Then he has to make a decision.

Can he actually draw a contrast without looking like the designated Hillary hater who's going to hurt the front-runner?

He's got a bunch of adjustments to make tomorrow night. We've got to see.

BLITZER: He's a debater, trust me. I've known Bernie Sanders. He's not a shy guy. He can debate. And I sense if the going gets tough, he'll get tough.

KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it's -- it will be less about him being tough and going after Hillary. I don't think that's probably what's going to score him many points in a Democratic debate. I think he has to take this stump speech, this populist stump speech and introduce it to, as Ana said, to a whole new bunch of voters that hadn't heard about him before, that don't live in Iowa or New Hampshire.

This is a real chance for him to shine on that stage and offer what -- and I think, to Van's point, too, this implied contrast that what you have is inauthentic, unreliable, progressive in Hillary Clinton. And I am an answer to a lot of your dreams and aspirations that you have for the party on some of the big issues like taking on Wall Street, like changing the national security posture of the Democratic Party, so things like that.

NAVARRO: I think that, unlike in the Republican Party, where we've had outsiders who have never debated on a stage like this before, all of these folks are seasoned veterans, seasoned politicians. Some of them are former senators. God knows all they do is debate. So I think we're going to see very seasoned debaters there.

BLITZER: She was secretary of state for four years, Hillary Clinton. You think that when it comes to national security, foreign policy, international affairs, she might have an advantage.

But Bernie Sanders, like Barack Obama eight years ago, is going after her pretty bluntly, pointing out she voted to go to war against Iraq. He opposed that decision, which he now says was a mistake on her part.

PFEIFFER: I think Hillary Clinton is beyond just being secretary of state, she's a phenomenal debater. She was excellent in the 2 dozen debates we did in 2007, 2008.

BLITZER: That's when you were working for the president.

PFEIFFER: When we were working for President Obama. And what I think the challenge for her is going to be is to be able to not just give policy answers but latch those policies to a larger rationale of her candidacy.

Foreign policy will be a challenging one because where she's broken with the president on more intervention in Syria is an unpopular position in the Democratic Party and probably in the country writ large. The only place where it would really work would be in the Republican primary. So that's a vulnerability for her.

JONES: But I think that Hillary Clinton needs just one or two moments where she's just human. If she just -- we know she's going to just kill everybody on the policy points. She's taken a more hawkish position. She can defend herself on that. You have to find a moment where you just tell a story, where the

rationale point you're making is correct but it's got to be put in a human context.

It can't be this lofty nonsense. It's got to be, listen, my mom went through hell to raise me. And I get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it has to not look scripted. It has to be --

BLITZER: And they're going to go after her for supposedly flip- flopping in recent weeks and months on sensitive issues.

MADDEN: Yes. I think that's the core vulnerability that she has. And I think it goes to both Van and Dan's point, which is, on points she wins in these debates but doesn't have these big moments of strength. And I think when she's calculating as a politician, she takes the right positions that are right with her base.

But does she show a moment of heart, a moment of strength?

That's going to be what's really tough for her.

BLITZER: We'll see if she does it.

[13:35:00]

BLITZER: I know she's been practicing, rehearsing. Let's see what happens tomorrow night.

Don't go too far away, guys. We have a lot more coming up.

Two candidates get most of the headlines. But guess what? There are five people who will be on that stage tomorrow night. They're dreaming of winning the White House.

Can the three lesser-known candidates break through the noise, become the threat to the top two?

Much more right after this.

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BLITZER: They have a term here in Las Vegas at the poker tables. It is called "dead money." It refers to players who have little or no chance at winning. And that may be --

[13:40:00]

BLITZER: -- how some view the candidates in tomorrow's Democratic debate, not named Clinton or Sanders, for that matter.

We're talking about Martin O'Malley, he's the former mayor of Baltimore, former governor of Maryland; also Jim Webb, he's a former Virginia senator in the 1980s. He served as an Assistant Secretary of Defense. He later served as U.S. Secretary of the Navy.

Then there's Rhode Island's Lincoln Chafee. He serve as a Republican senator, an independent governor and now he's a Democrat.

So let's bring back our panel of Kevin Madden, Van Jones, Ana Navarro and Dan Pfeiffer.

Tell me, so what do they need to do, these other three?

First of all, to introduce themselves but how hard do they go in attacking, let's say, Bernie Sanders and/or Hillary Clinton?

MADDEN: Well, I think the first thing they need to do is show up. I think that's going to be to their great advantage, that so many millions of Democratic voters who have only heard about them now get to hear them in their living rooms for the first time. So I think that's really important.

And then I think they just need to connect with them on a couple of these core issues -- income inequality, economic opportunity.

I think for Bernie Sanders, we saw some earlier numbers today, he's doing very poorly on -- with African American voters. Hillary Clinton is dominating amongst that key voting bloc inside Democratic primaries. He needs to start making inroads with them.

So this is an enormous opportunity. Half of the job is showing up and tomorrow night they'll have a great opportunity because of that.

BLITZER: Are you surprised how well Bernie Sanders is doing compared to the other three, former governor of Maryland, the former senator from Virginia, a governor from Rhode Island?

They're registering 1 percent or 2 percent or 3 percent, if that.

JONES: Sometimes they're getting beat by the margin of error. You know, the margin of error is 2 percent and they're getting beat by that.

Listen, there is a -- there's something happening in this country. And Bernie Sanders has tapped into it. There is a real populist and you see in on the Right with the Donald Trump.

If Elizabeth Warren had come into this field, you can see now, she would probably be 50 percent. There is something happening. And I think that we may be underestimating how much of an appeal he can make.

If you put this guy, unlike Hillary Clinton, whom I love, you see her, you don't get warmer toward her.

The more you see of Bernie Sanders, the higher his numbers go. He could really break out tomorrow night. He really could.

BLITZER: You agree Bernie Sanders could break out tomorrow night?

NAVARRO: I think Bernie Sanders has got a great opportunity here. The other three, they have to prove they're not just here to try to sell a book or get a position in "Dancing with the Stars."

(LAUGHTER)

NAVARRO: If they are, I mean, I don't know what to advise them, come out in an Elvis suit, do an impersonation, "Blue Suede Shoes," because if they were in the Republican debates, they wouldn't even be in the big debate.

If there wasn't because there's such a few number of candidates, these guys who are polling at 1 percent or at asterisk wouldn't even be on that stage.

BLITZER: Yes, But they are very smart guys.

PFEIFFER: They are. I think we should separate Martin O'Malley from the other two.

Martin O'Malley is, on paper, a very legitimate contender for the Democratic nomination. In the other year, he looks the part. He is very good. He has a great progressive record as governor of Maryland. He's the first person I've seen, who, the more they've campaigned for president, the less their name -- their name recognition has gone down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is that?

PFEIFFER: Well, I think he has been very -- Donald Trump has sucked up a huge portion of the oxygen here in political coverage generally. And Bernie Sanders has done an amazing job of consolidating the anti- Clinton vote.

But all the polls that include the vice president show there is some number of Democrats who are -- not -- who could move away from Hillary and are not for Bernie Sanders.

If Martin O'Malley has a good night and the vice president does not run, he could have a shot at that. That's not enough to win but it's a start. He's who I'm watching.

MADDEN: I have to agree with Dan, too. I think the one person who has a great opportunity here is Martin O'Malley. If you're looking for something new, if you're looking for, as the Kennedys used to say, a little vigor in tomorrow's debate, Martin O'Malley is probably the best position to offer that because --

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: And watch for him to have the fireworks between him and Hillary. Because he was what she is on immigration before that. He was where she is now on gay marriage before she was. So she can -- he can go out there and say, you know, I was there before you evolved. MADDEN: And the toughest thing about these debates is managing expectations. When you're at 1 percent and you're Martin O'Malley, that's very easy. He has nowhere to go but up. So I think that this opportunity to be in the homes of millions of people, to talk directly to them about the issues they care about, that he cares about, this is a moment for him.

BLITZER: Go ahead.

JONES: And nobody has been able to figure out the black and Latino vote. Hillary Clinton gets it by default. The Clintons get that by default. He has got some problems on that stuff because he was such a tough law and order guy.

But if he can somehow figure out a way to connect with a lot of younger voters, who right now still don't feel anybody is speaking to their issues from a racial justice perspective, he may find a few more points.

He's got to be the Marco Rubio.

BLITZER: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a good analogy.

JONES: He's got to be everybody's (INAUDIBLE).

BLITZER: You guys will be with us throughout all of our coverage. Thanks very much.

It's your first chance to see the Democratic presidential candidates together on one stage. Don't miss the CNN Facebook Democratic presidential debate tomorrow night, 8:30 --

[13:45:00]

BLITZER: -- pm Eastern.

An enigma in Iran, a mystery verdict in the espionage trial of a "Washington Post" reporter.

Will Jason Rezaian be sentenced to spend even more time in one of Iran's most notorious prisons?

I'll ask his brother. We'll get his reaction to this verdict in Iran. Stay with us. That's next.

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BLITZER: I'm here in Las Vegas. We're getting ready for the CNN Democratic presidential debate tomorrow night. Much more coverage of that coming up here throughout the day on CNN.

But now there's another important story we're following, indeed several stories. We've learned that U.S. military cargo planes delivered 50 tons of ammunition to Syrian rebel groups overnight. A U.S. official confirms to CNN the cargo planes were accompanied by U.S. fighter jets as they made the drops into Northern Syria.

Small arms --

[13:50:00]

BLITZER: -- ammunition, other items such as hand grenades were among the items delivered.

Meanwhile, the Russian military says it conducted another 55 airstrikes inside Syria in the last 24 hours alone. President Obama, speaking on CBS' "60 Minutes," criticized Russian leader Vladimir Putin's strategy in Syria.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Putin now is devoting his own troops, his own military just to barely hold together by a thread his sole ally.

(CROSSTALK)

STEVE: He's challenging your leadership, Mr. President. He's challenging your leadership.

OBAMA: Steve, I got to tell you, if you think that running your economy into the ground and having to send troops in in order to prop up your only ally is leadership, then we have got a different definition of leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Russia claims the overnight attacks were on ISIS targets.

Thousands gathered today for the funerals of some of the Turkish bomb victims. At least 97 people were killed, more than 240 people were injured in two blasts in Turkey's capital on Saturday. There's still no claim of responsibility for these terror attacks, which happened at a peace rally.

But the Turkish prime minister says investigators are now focusing in on ISIS as the most likely suspect.

A verdict has been issued in the espionage trial of "The Washington Post" journalist, Jason Rezaian. That according to Iranian state media. The report didn't give any details on the verdict or the sentence but it did say there was the possibility of appeal.

Rezaian is a dual U.S. and Iranian citizen. He's been held in Iran now for 448 days.

Ali Rezaian is Jason Rezaian's brother. He is now joining us from Washington.

Ali, thanks very much for joining us.

How much, first of all, are you learning about this conviction itself and the sentencing by Iran's revolutionary court?

ALI REZAIAN, JASON REZAIAN'S BROTHER: You know, we really don't have much more information. We asked Jason's lawyer to go out and talk to the judge and they rejected giving her any information about the verdict. So right now we're still waiting.

They made some claims that they needed to have a translator present in order to pass on the judgment but right now we're still waiting and it's similar to what we have been doing the last six months.

BLITZER: Have you been talking with U.S. officials, State Department officials?

If you have, what are they telling you?

REZAIAN: We spoke to them on and off throughout this entire process. What they have always said was they always brought it up during the negotiations and what we also know and what both sides have said is that this is a topic that they talk about -- have been talking about after the nuclear deal was over. So that's hopeful that they continue to talk about that at a diplomatic level but there really hasn't been much to see for it.

BLITZER: As you know, there's been some media speculation out there, some Iranian officials have even spoken of this so-called strategy that maybe releasing these Americans, including your brother, as part of some prisoner swap. There are Iranians being held in American prisons.

What do you know, if anything, about that?

REZAIAN: You know, I don't know anything about what's going on with anything. You'd have to talk to the government.

But what I know is Jason is innocent. The idea that he should be held in prison because of something that somebody else did here in the United States when he was over in Iran, just doing his job as a journalist, is offensive to me and it should be an offense to everybody.

I can't believe that the Iranian government would come out suggest that when he's just an innocent man. He shouldn't be held because of somebody else and what they did.

BLITZER: Do you and your family ever have a chance to speak with Jason?

REZAIAN: I haven't been able to speak with Jason since before he was taken. But my mom, who is in Iran right now, and his wife are both able to see him once a week and they are also able to speak to him on the phone for about five minutes once or twice a week. So they do get interactions with him. But those are really the only

two people that are able to see him, other than the guards and whatnot.

BLITZER: Has he been made aware of his conviction?

REZAIAN: Oddly enough, he heard about it on Iranian TV.

BLITZER: So that's how he was told about it.

How is he doing, his spirits and health, if you will?

REZAIAN: You know, I got to say, he's really depressed. These things keep on coming up. There are all these milestones, whether it's the U.N. General Assembly or the nuclear deal. All these things come and he gets his hopes up that something is going to happen and then nothing happens.

Now here he has to be finding out that there's a conviction on TV. But he still doesn't know what it is. It's cruel. It's just inhumane the way they are treating him mentally. And it's just taking a huge toll on him. He's very depressed and I'm just really worried for him.

BLITZER: We all are.

Is there anything viewers here in the United States or around the world right now can do to help?

REZAIAN: Right now, it would be great if people go to change.org/FreeJason. They can sign the petition there. Half a million people have signed it from 140 countries.

[13:55:00]

REZAIAN: We have been speaking with lots of different countries who want to help, who want to reach out to the Iranians and the more people around the world, the more people in the U.S. sign that, the more serious the politicians get about it.

BLITZER: It's been long enough. Let's hope he's released. Good luck to you and your family, especially your brother. Ali Rezaian, thanks very much for joining us.

REZAIAN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: There are other Americans who are being detained in Iran right now or who have gone missing. Saeed Abedini, an American Christian pastor who was born in Iran, has been detained since 2012.

Amir Hekmati, a former U.S. marine, he's been detained since 2011 on charges he was spying for the United States.

And Robert Levinson, a former FBI agent and contractor for the CIA, he was reported missing after a visit to Iran back in March of 2007.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back at 5:00 pm Eastern in THE SITUATION ROOM. The news continues on CNN, right after a quick break.

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