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Democratic Candidates Face Off For First Time Tonight; Clinton Rivals Accuse Her Of Flip-Flopping; Gearing Up for Tonight's Democratic Debate on CNN; Interview with DNC Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 13, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's treat each other civilly. Let's treat each other respectfully.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Having a debate about how we solve our nation's problems.

LINCOLN CHAFEE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How are you going to lead us into the future?

JIM WEBB (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to look for leaders who really can get it done.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a big one. This is really important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 10:00 a.m. in Las Vegas. It's 1:00 p.m. in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, we're counting down to the showdown here in Las Vegas, the first Democratic presidential debate of this, the 2016 presidential campaign. It's now less than eight hours away and the stakes, clearly, are very high. How will Hillary Clinton handle questions about her e-mail and her so-called flip-flops? Can self-described socialist, Bernie Sanders, deliver a mainstream message? Will Martin O'Malley get a much needed breakout moment? Is this make or break for Jim Wibb? Jim Webb, I should say. And is it the last chance for Lincoln Chafee?

Tonight. Tonight is the first time we will see the Democratic candidates shoulder to shoulder and going toe to toe. Let's get the view from inside the debate. First, to the debate hall. Our Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is inside there. Jim, first of all, what are the ground rules for this two-hour debate?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the ground rules are pretty straight forward. One minute for each question that is answered by these candidates and 30 seconds to respond if one of the other candidates makes mention of one of the rivals up on stage. And I was talking to Tad Devine, a Senior Strategist for Bernie Sanders earlier this morning. And he said, listen, Bernie Sanders is not coming out here today to attack anybody, but if somebody attacks him, he will fight back. And in the words of Tad Devine, you cannot tame this tiger.

He was also talking about some of the positioning of the lecterns up on the stage here. He noted that Bernie Sanders will be positioned to the right of Hillary Clinton. He said that's the only time you're ever going to hear that happen or see that happen, referring to the independent senator from Vermont's famously progressive views.

Now, as for Bernie Sanders, Wolf, I think the challenge for Bernie Sanders is to come across as presidential. He knows the knock (ph) inside the Democratic Party, among some, is that he can't be elected president. So, he wants his views to come across as mainstream and serious.

Hillary Clinton, I think the challenge is to do no harm. She hasn't had a major debate like this since 2008. She wants to get past this e-mail and Benghazi controversy and start talking about these issues that her campaign has been so desperate to talk about and get it out to a big audience.

But, Wolf, it appears that she's already been looking past her Democratic rivals. Last night, as soon as she arrived here in Las Vegas, she went over to the Trump hotel and was firing off on Donald Trump, the GOP front runner.

So, she -- the question whether or not she's already looking past the Democratic field. And you said, Wolf, the rest of the pack of Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb, they just that break-out moment to hopefully gain some traction in the polls. That worked out well for Carly Fiorina and Marco Rubio in that last GOP debate on CNN.

Now, we're just a few hours away from the arrivals of these candidates. We're going to see them starting to come here to the Wynn Hotel here in Las Vegas, start checking out this debate stage. Wolf, it's been a big build up but we're almost there.

BLITZER: The debate set-up, the whole notion of when the candidates, themselves, will get a chance to see what it's like up on the stage, the five candidates, that's going to be later this afternoon, right?

ACOSTA: That's right. I would say in about the 4:00 to 5:00 hour our time, Wolf, you'll start to see these candidates start to show up. I should say Eastern time, excuse me. About 4:00 to 5:00 Eastern time, they'll start to show up here at this auditorium and it will be very fascinating to watch.

You know, Hillary Clinton, despite that, you know, she's had secret service protection for, what, two decades, she's been involved in numerous debates from the senatorial level to the presidential level. She has not been involved in a debate like this since 2008, so she's going to want to get a hard look at this stage. Bernie Sanders. Who would've thought that Bernie Sanders would've captured the imagination of the Democratic left much in the same way Barack Obama did back in 2008 and be standing right next to Hillary Clinton in this very big moment. It's going to be some fascinating political television to watch.

And Martin O'Malley, you know, when he gets here later on tonight, a lot of people thought Martin O'Malley would do a lot better, you know, in this Democratic contest. But thus far, he's only getting into the single digits. But despite that positioning in the polls, he'll also be standing next to Hillary Clinton. And we'll see all those candidates cycling through in the next few hours, Wolf, and start taking a look at how this stage is being set up -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We certainly will. Jim Acosta inside the debate hall here at the -- at the Wynn Hotel. Thanks very much for that.

[13:05:00] Hillary Clinton heads into tonight's debate as the clear Democratic president front runner. But that also makes her a more inviting target for her Democratic rivals.

So, what's her strategy? John Podesta is chairman of the Hillary for America campaign. He's with me right now. John, thanks very much for coming in.

JOHN PODESTA, CHAIRMAN, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Great to be with you.

BLITZER: As we speak, I see she's just tweeting, Hillary Clinton, about Donald Trump. She says, real (ph) Donald Trump, this is to him, glad you'll be watching. It's going to be huge, she says, tonight. Because he's going to be live tweeting during the course of this CNN debate.

PODESTA: Well, we look forward to that. You know, Donald Trump said some outrageous things, attacking Latinos, attacking immigrants. And yesterday, Hillary stood with the workers who were trying to organize at the Trump Hotel and called him out on that. So, we'll look forward to see what he has -- what he has to say on --

BLITZER: This is the Wynn Hotel. Right over there on the other side, there's a huge --

PODESTA: Yes, exactly.

BLITZER: -- Trump Hotel. The first thing she did when she came to Las Vegas was go over there to complain about Donald Trump.

PODESTA: Well, she was over there standing with the workers from Local 266, the culinary workers who are trying to organize over there. And I think she wanted to show her support for their, you know, issue of trying to raise their wages and really get a living wage. And she called out Trump for both being -- both the employment situation over at the Trump Hotel but also for the things he said in his campaign. He's been really a force of division. You know, I guess he's a force of entertainment but he's been also a force of division in this country. And she was calling him out on that. BLITZER: The -- you and her -- she had been practicing, right? She's

been going through her dress rehearsals, doing a lot of preparing for this debate. Is the assumption that these four other Democratic candidates are going to attack her for various positions, so-called flip flops, other (INAUDIBLE)?

PODESTA: Well, look, I think that this will be a little bit more civil debate, I think, than the Republicans have had. It's not going to be a debate of name-calling and attacks at a personal level. It's going to be an exploration of where they differ on the issues and where they're the same on the issues.

They, I think, for the most part, see the direction of the country consistently. They know that we've got to do better by the American middle class. We want to see wages growing again. We want to make sure that people can afford health care and that everyone has health care, that college is affordable. But there are differences and I think they'll be explored tonight. But I don't think it's going to be a debate that largely is one of name-calling. It's going to one that's sustenance.

BLITZER: I don't think it'll be name-calling but they will point out, for example, Bernie Sanders presumably will point out, maybe some of the other candidates, she voted for the war on Iraq. Bernie Sanders voted against the war. And that strategy worked well --

PODESTA: Well, look, that --

BLITZER: -- for Barack Obama when he was the senator running against her in 2008.

PODESTA: -- was a long time ago and Barack Obama won that election and thought that Hillary Clinton was the right person to lead foreign policy in America, appointed her secretary of state. She served him, I think, with distinction as secretary of state. They remain close. And I think she was happy to serve in that capacity. So, he must think that her judgment is pretty good about foreign affairs.

BLITZER: He sort of went after her, the other day. She says she supports a no-fly zone in Syria right now. He says, you know, it's one thing for a presidential candidate to go and take that kind of position. It's another thing when you're president of the United States, knowing what that means for U.S. national security, men and women in the armed forces. So, he was sort of taking a hit at her.

PODESTA: Well, look, I think they have differences on this question. But as his current secretary of state, John Kerry, is at least exploring, as we read in the newspapers, the possibility of keeping people protected in safe zones inside Syria so that we don't have this continuous flood of refugees and we can keep people safe. So, she's put some ideas out there, with respect to that.

But that's the kind of coalitions that need to be built that she was good at when she was secretary and built the coalition, for example, to impose sanctions on Iran which led to the Iranian deal which was one of the most important foreign policy successes of the Obama administration.

BLITZER: She's going to also be criticize, by at least Bernie Sanders and I'm sure Martin O'Malley, for the Pacific trade deal that she supported while she was secretary of state but now she opposes. They're going to say they've always opposed it and she flip flops.

PODESTA: Well, look, I think what she said, at the time, was she had hoped that this would be the highest standard trade deal in the world. She set a very high bar which is that had to raise wages, create good jobs, protect the national security. The treaty was only negotiated last week.

And when she looked at the final agreement, I think she concluded that it didn't meet that high bar that she had set. That, particularly, as she has noted, the fact that the currency manipulation was not in the core of the agreement. It's led to the loss of thousands of jobs. It means that she did exactly what she should do, what a leader should do, is to look at the substance at the end, not prejudge it, and make a decision.

And she said that her number one issue in this campaign is raising people's wages. And I think, at the end of the day, she didn't feel like the agreement, in its final form, that she could tell the American people that it would actually accomplish that.

[13:10:09] BLITZER: So, she believes the president of the United States, who supports this deal strongly, made a major blunder? Is that what I'm hearing?

PODESTA: No. I think she thought that he -- and as she said, that he negotiated hard. But at the end of the day, given where we are, given the fact that wages haven't grown in this country, you have to put that in the whole context of the Republicans blocking raising the minimum wage, blocking job training, blocking the right investments for the country. Looking in its totality, notwithstanding the president and his team negotiated hard, that it just didn't meet the bar that she could tell the American people that I'm confident that if we pass this, it'll raise your wages.

BLITZER: All right, I know you've got to run. Joe Biden, the Vice President, you're working under the assumption he will run or won't run?

PODESTA: I'm working under the assumption that he's got to make up his mind. And, you know, I think that we've given him plenty of space to do that. I -- you know, we're all friends with him and he's going to have to make a judgment here in the -- you know, pretty soon, I think, at this point, if he wants to get into this race. But whether he gets in or he doesn't get in, we're going to run our strategy which is to fight the fights that she's been fighting her whole life on behalf of working people. And that's -- and that's what we'll continue to do.

BLITZER: And President Bill Clinton, he's here in Los Angeles. Will he be in the debate hall tonight?

PODESTA: I think he -- you know, his plan is to -- is to do what millions of Americans will do which is to watch it on T.V.

BLITZER: He's not going to show up?

PODESTA: No, it's her night. He'll --

BLITZER: Does he feel he would he be --

PODESTA: -- he's happy to see -- he's happy to -- he's happy to experience this debate the same way that millions of Democrats around the country will. And I'm sure he's confident that she's going to do great.

BLITZER: Because Bernie Sanders' wife will be sitting there inside. Some of the other spouses, presumably, will as well. But he's decided, better off -- he'll watch it on T.V.

PODESTA: Well, I think he'll watch it on T.V.

BLITZER: John Podesta, thanks very much for coming in.

PODESTA: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.

Up next, Democratic National Committee chairwoman, Debbie Wassermann Schultz, she's standing by to join us live. We're going to talk about debate expectations, party enthusiasm, the strengths and weaknesses of this year's candidates and a whole lot more, including the controversy that has erupted with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.

Also, strategies of moderating a debate with only five candidates and without Donald Trump, tonight will be a very different ball game. We'll explain what's about to unfold here in Las Vegas.

[13:12:29]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:42] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is there a problem? Yes. And you've described what the problem is. Does that mean there's a crisis? Does that mean today we've got to privatize Social Security tomorrow? Absolutely not.

What happens if they fail, who in God's name is going to the bail them out? Are you concerned about that?

The question, Mr. Speaker, is not whether we like Saddam Hussein or not, the question is whether he represents an imminent threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Just a sample of Senator Bernie Sanders' debate style. We're going to see a lot more of that later tonight. The senator from Vermont has plenty of experience having taken part of at least 19 debates, but never on a national stage like this one. This stage comes with the bright lights of Las Vegas as the five Democratic presidential candidates gamble with their political futures, each trying to hit the jackpot as they meet face-to-face for the first time in this race.

Joining us now is Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz. She's the chair of the Democratic National Committee.

You've been very responsible, very much in the news in getting this together tonight. Some of the complaints that you're hearing, five candidates, not a whole lot of diversity that's going to be up on that stage. One woman, four men, no minorities, you say?

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL), CHAIRWOMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATL. COMMITTEE: Well, our party is the most diverse political party in American history. I mean certainly contrasted with not only the issues that our candidates will focus on, on that stage tonight, but when contrasted with the issues that are important to various minority group, African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Asian-American. I mean the Republicans have done everything they can to alienate those groups, alienate women, alienate the LGBT community, you know, talking about at their debates kicking immigrants out of this country, talking about taking away health care from -- from Americans, talking about who can -- who -- which candidate would be worse for women and take their healthcare away, deny their rights, oppose equal pay for equal work. So the party that is focused on the diversity, diversity of opportunity, diversity of inclusion and empowerment is the Democratic Party.

BLITZER: Are you nervous that the four men are going to, in effect, really go after the frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, on the stage tonight to score political points?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: You know, I think our candidates have all made it clear that they're going to distinguish themselves on the issues between one another. But really, I think, what Americans will see tonight is the stark contrast between our candidates who are focused on moving America forward, making more progress from the 67th straight month of job growth in the private sector that 17 million Americans who now have access to quality affordable health care, contrasted with the Republicans who want to take us backwards to failed economic policies that got us into the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, that oppose comprehensive immigration reform, that really have proposed policies that would be harmful to women. I mean the contrast couldn't be more clear and that's what voters will see tonight.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Sure.

BLITZER: She's from Hawaii. She's a vice chair, one of five, vice chairs of the DNC. She's very angry. Angry at you, as you well know, for in -- she claims you disinvited her to come here to Las Vegas from Hawaii to participate. Listen to what she told me in "The Situation Room" last night. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI), DNC VICE-CHAIR: I've been calling for more debates to give the American people the opportunity to hear from these presidential candidates, to listen to what they've got to say, to hold them accountable for their views and their -- their positions. Because that differentiated from the decision that the chairwoman made from the DNC, I was told that I was no longer welcome to come to the debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:20:10] BLITZER: That's pretty amazing, isn't it, when you think about it, a vice chair of the DNC, simply because she is recommending more debates, you disinvited her from coming here?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, first, that's simply not true. Herein lies the problem. You and I are now talking about Tulsi Gabbard rather than concentrating on our candidates, on the issues that are important on Americans. I'm drawing that contrast that she referenced in her interview with you yesterday were important. You know, we're a big tent party, Wolf. You know, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. The congresswoman has made her opinion clear on, you know, the process. But this debate and our candidate forums and the campaign itself is not about process, it needs to be about the dramatic contrast between all of our Democratic candidates who want to move America forward, create more opportunities for people to join the middle class. And, unfortunately, you know, Congresswoman Gabbard continues to focus on process.

Now, she was asked to focus on our candidates. And if she could keep the focus on our candidates then, you know, that was what we thought was important. At the end of that interview, if you recall, she said -- she declined an invitation to come that was extended by Bernie Sanders' campaign because she thought she'd be a distraction. And she has spent a lot of this morning talk -- continuing to focus on process and on herself as opposed to talking about our great candidates, who (ph) are really important.

BLITZER: But if this is a big -- if this is a big tent party, why can't you have some DNC leaders, like her, say there should be more debates.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: We can.

BLITZER: Other DNC leaders, like you, say there -- there shouldn't be more debates. Six is enough.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: There are other -- you know, plenty of opportunity and certainly there has been a discussion over process. But she was asked to focus -- be able to focus on the candidate and she apparently decided that it's more important to focus on process. And tonight it needs to be all about our candidates. Look, we've got Republicans who, at their debates, are busy trying to outright wing one another, that are talking about kicking immigrants out of this country, that are talking about talking access to health care away from women, that oppose equal pay for equal work. That's what we should be talking about today. And we are a big tent party. You know, she's entitled, as others are, to their opinion. But just two weeks from now, Wolf, we have, you know, a women's leadership forum that four of our five candidates will be at. We have a South Carolina Democratic Party event, a candidate forum, that has a media partner and --

BLITZER: Those aren't debates. Those are just forums. Those are just discussions. The point that she's making, and she's also made it on CNN earlier this morning, is that she's one of five vice-chairs. You say everyone was consulted about the number of debates. She says that's a lie. She was never consulted.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Well, she's, unfortunately, spending a lot of time on the process. There were many people consulted, including officers, about our process, but the focus --

BLITZER: She says she was never consulted.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Wolf, this is the problem is that she wants to distract from the focus that needs to be on our candidates, on drawing -- we have a lot of work to do. I'm the head of a national party. I have to get our candidate -- our party ready to launch our nominee from Philadelphia, you know, whoever that is, because that person is going to be the 45th president of the United States. There is a lot of work to do and we need to all be rowing in the same direction and working together to do it. She's entitled to her opinion. There are people who disagree with her. But this focus tonight on this, it should be on our candidates and their differences of opinion with the Republican candidates and, you know, we should set process aside. She couldn't do that apparently.

BLITZER: All right, one final -- I know you've got to run. Why only six debates, because there were so many -- Republicans are having a lot more. Four years -- eight years ago there were a lot more. Why only six?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: We have five candidates and six debates. The Republicans now have 15 candidates and they'll probably end up at about 11 debates. We both have the same exclusivity rule because it is important to make sure that there are a variety of ways that voters can get a chance to see our candidates. There are early primary states for a reason so we can go through a retail (ph) process. Those voters like to kick the tires. There are candidate forums that have political -- you know, our state party co-sponsors. Those are different opportunities to be able to see the candidates. But you don't want to pull the candidates off the campaign trail over and over and over again. There were 26 debates in 2008 and both parties decided that we needed to get a better handle on the number of debates, given -- you know, broaden the variety of ways that voters get to see our candidates and that's what we're going to be doing.

BLITZER: You going to talk to Tulsi Gabbard?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I repeatedly offered to talk to Congresswoman Gabbard and thus far she has refused to do so.

BLITZER: Did you call her?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I've spoken to her on the phone. I've told her by e-mailed that -- in response to her e-mail that, you know, we should get together and talk and she apparently has decided that that -- that isn't necessary.

BLITZER: Because she told me last night she wants to speak to you but you basically rejected speaking to her.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Oh, this he said/she said, it's so silly. This is so -- this is so ridiculous. I mean this -- this is my point, we need to focus on our candidates and the contrast between the 67 straight months of job growth in the private sector, the expansion of access to health care for 17 million American, and we are -- and we have one of our officers, sadly, who is quibbling about process. It's not about her or me or anyone else. This is about moving America forward. That's what I'm focus on. And I'm going to do my job as the national party chair to put our party in the strongest possible position to get our -- us ready for our nominee.

[13:25:07] BLITZER: Debbie Wasserman Schultz --

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Thank you.

BLITZER: The chair of the DNC, also a Democratic congresswoman from south Florida.

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Yes, thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us.

Up next, breaking down the issues. What are the hot button topics that could derail Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. Plus, who actually has the most to lose? Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am prepared and ready on day one.

It is imperative that we have a president starting on day one.

I've been involved in this now for 17 years.

[13:30:00] I have 35 years of being an instrument, an agent of change.