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Grassley, Obama to Meet on Supreme Court Vacancy; Top Security Officials Discuss Major Threats; Debate over Unlocking Terrorist IPhone. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired February 25, 2016 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00] SEN. AL FRANKEN, (D), MINNESOTA: And scientists tell us that there are almost 11 months left in the president's second term.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Right. Senator Joe Biden, when he was chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, back in '92, you were not even in the Senate at the time. I don't hold you responsible for what then-Senator Biden had to say.
FRANKEN: Well, thank you.
TAPPER: He certainly sounded different --
(LAUGHTER)
He certainly sounded different than you sound back then. He said if a vacancy was created in '92 when George H.W. Bush was president, that then-President Bush should not appoint somebody. And I've been hearing Republicans all week invoking the Biden rule. What do you make of that?
FRANKEN: I think there's a couple things that should be brought up. First of all, bid was chair of the Judiciary Committee when Justice Kennedy was confirmed in the last year of Reagan administration. And secondly, I think that the context of that was a justice with, you know, resigning, who is older. That would be like, say, Justice Ginsberg deliberately resigning so that President Obama could appoint somebody or nominate somebody. That's -- this is very different. This is a vacancy caused by the death of a justice. And so what we're talking about now is for the next two terms of the Supreme Court, that we would not have anybody there. And that's just unacceptable. Especially when you have -- would have so many 4-4 decisions. And people rely -- Americans rely on decisions from the court.
TAPPER: Senator Franken, I know you've endorsed former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nominee.
FRANKEN: I have.
TAPPER: And she certainly seems like she has regained, if she ever lost, her front-runner status. What do you make of Donald Trump as the potential Republican nominee, and do you think Democrats are not taking him as a threat seriously enough?
FRANKEN: Well, you know, he's not the nominee yet. I'm not a Republican. That's their job. They have to choose who their nominee is going to be. I know that whoever their nominee is, we are going to take very, very seriously. Because as a Senator, I've seen kind of up close how important it is who the president is. And as I, again, read my Constitution, the president has these four-year terms. And the president has the power granted to him by the Constitution for all -- each of those four years.
TAPPER: All right. Senator Al Franken, of Minnesota, thank you so much for joining us. We always appreciate it.
FRANKEN: You're very welcome, Jake Tapper, of Washington, D.C.
(LAUGHTER)
TAPPER: Coming up, a senior house Republican calls for Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio to unite on a single ticket. A letter he's now circulating, and he says it would all be for the good of the Republican Party.
Plus, reaction from a top Cruz supporter. That's all coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:37:48] TAPPER: Welcome back. We're on the campus of the University of Houston. We are all getting excited for this evening's Republican presidential debate, the last one before Super Tuesday.
Aren't you guys supposed to be in class?
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Moms and dads paying tuition, take a look.
(CHEERING)
TAPPER: Take a look. I don't know what's going on here. Putting that whole college loan thing into a different light.
The stage is being set for tonight's Republican presidential debate, which can only be seen on CNN and CNN International. It will feature the five remaining Republican candidates squaring off one final time before the all-important Super Tuesday. Donald Trump will take center stage as the front runner with three straight victories. That leaves the other candidates on a mission to try and slow his momentum and get their own breakout moment before 11 states, including this one, head to the polls. A total of 595 delegates will be up for grabs for the Republicans, nearly half the amount needed to win the Republican presidential nomination. The stakes, needless to say, are quite high for all the candidates this evening, perhaps, especially, for Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz as they try to close in on the undisputed front runner, Donald Trump.
Now a Republican Congressman is calling for Rubio and Cruz to join forces and unite against Trump. Congressman Trent Franks says, one candidate should continue in the race, and in the other, as his running mate. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TRENT FRANKS, (R), ARIZONA: We really have a mathematical issue here, rather than a political one. I pray both these candidates will consider the alternative and the fact that the window is closing. I don't want to suggest how they should do it. It's not a matter of running from the fact. But, yes, if it comes down to flipping a coin, then flip a coin for the sake of the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's talk about this with former Georgia Congressman Bob Barr, a supporter of Ted Cruz. He joins us from Atlanta.
Congressman Barr, thanks for joining us.
What do you make of Congressman Franks' idea?
BOB BARR, (R), FORMER GEORGIA CONGRESSMAN: It's not going anywhere. This question comes up pretty much every cycle, where somebody rightly or wrongly, that the candidates -- certain of them, should drop out. It's not going to happen. In this case, you have two very well-known Senators who are very, very strongly committed to running, who have many, many supporters all across the country. They're not all of a sudden going to drop out because a Congressman asked them to. Despite the fact that, you know, a lot of people may want that. I support Senator Cruz, and I would be very disappointed if he were suddenly to just -- because he loses a game of rock, paper, scissors, drop out of the race.
[13:40:33] TAPPER: An article in the "National Review" says some conservative activists backing Senator Ted Cruz are reevaluating their support after three straight third-place victories -- or non- victories, I should say. And these activists are considering defecting to Senator Rubio if Cruz doesn't do well. What do you think of that?
BARR: It's more of what we always see as we get closer to an important date, in this case, Super Tuesday or SEC Tuesday, next week. People are always going to start feeding stuff to the media that either helps or hurts one candidate or another. The fact of the matter is, certainly from my perspective, here in Georgia, Senator Cruz is doing very well. We see no dilution or lessoning of his support from any of the groups that have supported him.
TAPPER: A new Monmouth University poll out today shows that Senator Cruz is ahead here in Texas, which is obviously Senator Cruz's home state. He's at 38 percent, ahead of Donald Trump at 23 percent, Marco Rubio at 21 percent. A senior Republican lobbyist is saying Texas is in the bag. But the bag has a weak bottom. How important is a win in Texas, and additionally to that, there is another poll showing Rubio trailing in his own state, trailing Trump. Can a candidate credibly continue if he doesn't win his home state?
BARR: It would be very difficult for that to happen, particularly at this stage. And that's why we're very pleased, as Cruz supporters, to see Ted Cruz strongly ahead in Texas, and why I think Senator Rubio should be very concerned that he is not doing well in his home state.
TAPPER: All right, former Congressman Bob Barr, Cruz supporter, thanks so much for joining us.
BARR: Great to see you, sir.
TAPPER: Thank you.
Just in, Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval saying today he's not interested in the Supreme Court nomination. He said, quote, "I notified the White House that I do not wish to be considered at this time for a possible nomination to the Supreme Court of the United States. I have also spoken to Senators Reid, Heller and McConnell and expressed the same desire to them. The notion of being considered for a seat on the highest court in the land is beyond humbling. And I am incredibly grateful to have been mentioned," unquote.
White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, saying the president has a team of people continuing to evaluate candidates.
Coming up, Congress accusing the Pentagon of deleting e-mails and providing false information regarding national security. The details on that story.
Plus, new information on the battle to unlock the iPhone belonging to the San Bernardino terrorists. The FBI outlining exactly what they are asking Apple to do, and why Apple is saying no.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:47:22] TAPPER: Welcome back. We're live on the campus of the University of Houston, getting ready for this evening's Republican presidential debate, the last one before Super Tuesday.
But let's turn to some world news now. ISIS and al Qaeda, foreign fighters and home-grown terrorism, the iPhone and encryption software, these were just some of the topics mentioned at a worldwide terror threat hearing on Capitol Hill earlier today. Top security officials testifying before the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Here's the director of National Intelligence, retired General James Clapper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: There are no more Sunni violent extremist groups members in safe havens than at any time in history. The rate of foreign travelers traveling to Syria and Iraq in the past few years is without precedent. At least 38,200 foreign fighters, including at least 6,900 from Western countries have traveled to Syria from at least 120 countries since the beginning of the conflict in 2012.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.
Barbara, what were some of the highlights of today's hearing?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jake. Well, you know, the intelligence community likes to make a light-hearted comment about all of this, calling it the litany of doom, and that is what it was.
I think one of the real underlying threats, which is how much ISIS has taken over as a major threat to the U.S., how much it has grown beyond what al Qaeda ever was. And that is driving a lot of what the intelligence community these days. All of this leading to the Republican chairman of the committee absolutely blasting the Pentagon, and it really caught our attention, over its intelligence practices. The chairman accusing the Pentagon from everything of providing the Congress with false information to deleting e-mails. Another e-mail scandal out there.
Listen to just some of what the chairman of the committee had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DEVIN NUNES, (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE: We have been made aware that both files and e-mails have been deleted by personnel at CENTCOM. And we expect the Department of Defense will provide these and all other relevant documents to the committee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: CENTCOM, the Central Command, the part of the military, based in Florida, that oversees all military operations in the Middle East, the war against ISIS. Now, they say, no, we didn't delete any e- mails, they told us a short time ago all senior leader e-mails are maintained. The Congressman did not refer to senior leader e-mails, he just said e-mails. And the committee critical of the Pentagon claiming, saying, alleging, that the Pentagon gave them false information about the relocation of an intelligence center so contractors would be kept happy because they'd be working close to London and not in another much more remote location.
So besides all the threats out there, the ISIS, North Korea, everything, Russia, a lot of anxiety, a lot of tension between the committee and the Pentagon this morning -- Jake?
[13:50:30] TAPPER: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
One of the top issues at today's hearing, the battle between the FBI and Apple computers. As the company fighting a request to unlock the iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino terrorists.
The FBI director today explaining the judge's order. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: The federal judge has ordered the maker of the phone to do two things. That is disable the auto-erase function on the phone so that if the FBI is trying to guess the pass code to the phone it doesn't automatically delete the contents essentially after the tenth try. And second, to disable the delay between tries function, so if we're going to try to guess the code, it doesn't take years and years, but instead we're able to do it in minutes and hours.
The code the judge has directed Apple to write works only on this one phone. The code will be at Apple, which I think has done a darn good job of protecting its code.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, a ranking member of that House Committee on Intelligence.
Congressman, you talked about this at the hearing. What is your position?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D), CALIFORNIA: My position is that in term also of the phone that was used by the male shooter, Farook, in San Bernardino, I think the FBI has a good legal case under the All Writs Act to follow up on the earlier court order that Apple assist in this way. But I also think Apple has a compelling argument that while this order may only deal with this one phone, the precedent will be applied to other cases around the country. And I think the director of the FBI pretty much acknowledged that today. So this case has much broader policy implication, which is why ultimately the court decision won't decide this issue. In fact, by the time this court rules on appeal, Apple will have probably already changed its operating system, such that the FBI won't be able to request this relief in the future. Ultimately, it's going to fall on us, Jake, in Congress, to try to draw the line in terms of what the technology sector must or must not do and I think that would be best if it can be part of a negotiated agreement between the tech sector, law enforcement, intelligence community, as well as privacy stake holders. I think that is the best way forward at this point.
TAPPER: You also spoke about Libya where ISIS is clearly gaining a stronger foothold. What do you think should be done to keep ISIS from taking even more control of that country?
SCHIFF: I think we have to act more aggressively and more swiftly in taking out key ISIS figures and pushing back ISIS in supporting militias that will fight ISIS. And I'm worried that we have not been as aggressive on this front as we should be because we have been waiting for this political fight between these two factions in Libya, they're trying to form a government, to be sorted out. That has gone on week after week, month after month. And all the while that these two factions are fiddling, Libya is burning. I'd like to see us with our European partners act more aggressively, militarily, and contemporaneous with the diplomat efforts, but I don't want to see us postpone that, because, frankly, if we allow ISIS to get that kind of a foothold, a so-called caliphate in Libya, we have seen in Iraq and Syria just how hard it is to later uproot.
TAPPER: I know you're concerned about Libya, and the greater Middle East is about that country, not about politics. But can you say anything other than the region is in a worse situation than it was when President Obama took office in terms of Libya and Iraq and Syria. And in that sense, isn't this an issue that is really helping Republicans as they make their case to the American people this election year?
SCHIFF: I think it's certainly true that the Arab Spring unleashed really incredible unprecedented forces which have caused a lot of these state boundaries and lines drawn up over a century ago to largely evaporate in places like Iraq and Syria and has introduced a whole new level of violence and instability in the region. I don't know that you can lay the Arab Spring at the feet of the administration. There's certainly going to be a lot of fodder to debate over what our policy ought to be going forward in Syria and Iraq.
I do think it's interesting, though, much as the Republican presidential candidates criticize and attack the president over his handling of Syria and Iraq, they don't really offer much in the way of a different policy. They largely subscribe to what the president is doing. And if they don't, they're unwilling to say they really want to introduce strong numbers of American troops. I think Lindsay Graham was the only person willing to go there, and he's no longer in the presidential field.
[13:55:29] TAPPER: It's a fair response.
Congressman Adam Schiff of California, a ranking member on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, thank you.
SCHIFF: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: That's it for me. I will be back at 4:00 eastern, 3:00 Houston time, on "The Lead."
For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.
For viewers in North America, NEWSROOM, with Poppy Harlow and John Berman starts right after this.
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