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Obama Calls for World without Nuclear Weapons in Japan; ISIS Using Migration for European Sleeper Cells; Trump Speech in Fresno, California; Libertarian Party Picking Candidates, Alternative Choice to Trump, Clinton; Interview with Libertarian Candidates. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired May 27, 2016 - 13:30   ET


[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you think was the significance of those specific words to you?

TAMAKI TSUKADA, MINISTER & SPOKESMAN, EMBASSY OF JAPAN: Well, the United States is the most powerful nation on earth. The United States possesses thousands of nuclear warheads. So consequently, United States has the moral responsibility to lead, to show the aspiration, to show the path towards the goal, the ideals of non-proliferation and the world without nuclear weapons. So I think these words that he just spoke resonated very powerfully with all the people who are engaged and are working daily on this cause.

BLITZER: It took 71 years for an American president to make this gesture. Is there a vocal group in Japan who wanted him to go further and actually apologize?

TSUKADA: Well, I think the most important thing for all of us to see was the visit itself by the serving, acting president. That gesture itself speaks volumes for the wish, the desire of the people in Hiroshima, and the Japanese people's general public. I think that would suffice, the visit itself, and the powerful message he made, I think that resonated very well with the people.

BLITZER: The minister at the embassy of Japan here in Washington, Tamaki Tsukada, thank you so much for joining us.

TSUKADA: Thank you.


TSUKADA: Great to see you.

BLITZER: Coming up, we'll get back to the race for the White House. Donald Trump expected to speak live any moment now in Fresno, California. You're looking at live pictures coming in. We'll share some of that with you when we come back.


[13:36:20] BLITZER: The fight against ISIS is not just confined to Syria and Iraq. ISIS is now an estimated 4,000 to 6,000 number of fighters controlling portions of Libya's coastline. As well as that, human smugglers are thriving there, taking full advantage of refugees and giving ISIS terrorists a potential gateway to Europe.

In this CNN exclusive report, our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, got a very rare look at how all of this is done.


NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the moment when desperate dreams come to an end. We're with the Libyan immigration police inside a warehouse of migrant hopefuls they've just raided on the Tripoli beachfront. As Turkey and Greece close their shores, the Libyan route to Europe has exploded again. Here, among the squalor that a lifetime's savings buys, is where fantasies of a future in Europe fall apart.

(on camera): Where are you from?


WALSH (voice-over): This man fled ISIS-loyal Boko Haram, whose bombs killed his father and brother. And he survived the desert trek until here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After today, bomb blast, tomorrow bomb blast. We're not safe. After the death of my father and my brother, I said let me go. And let me travel out. And every time I talk about them, I feel sad. I feel sad.

WALSH: We leave quickly, as this is a smugglers' neighborhood.

But there's a new threat. Smugglers and police telling us that ISIS have hidden fighters among other groups of migrants bound for Europe.

(on camera): This trade in human souls is awful enough until you think that perhaps ISIS are using this passage of human life into Europe, trying to infiltrate the continent with sleeper cells.

(voice-over): Police tell us off camera they have caught different other migrants with ISIS links. And a top Libyan intelligence official warns us the threat is real.

UNIDENTIFIED TOP LIBYAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL (through translation): ISIS can be among illegal immigrants on the boats. They travel with their families, without weapons, as normal illegal immigrants. They will wear American dress and have English-language papers so they cause no suspicion.

WALSH: It's a huge and un-patrolable coastline where smugglers rule. We talked to one, disguised for his safety, who says, in the past two months, ferrying ISIS has become part of the trade.

UNIDENTIFIED SMUGGLER (through translation): About two weeks ago, a boat left the ISIS stronghold Sirte, among them were about 40 ISIS. They were heading to Europe but the bad weather turned them back. 10 days later, they tried again. I don't know if they got there. About a month ago, I got a call from a devout guy I knew was ISIS. He wanted a small boat that could carry 40 people and was willing to pay about $40,000. I didn't take the deal.

WALSH (on camera): Do you and other smugglers feel comfortable moving people who may be ISIS towards Europe?

UNIDENTIFIED SMUGGLER (through translation): Smugglers are only interested in smuggling, ISIS, anyone, they don't care. Melon or watermelon. Only money matters.

WALSH (voice-over): The Libyan state is torn apart by infighting. It's Coast Guard struggling to even find boats.

(on camera): Fighting the migrant trade along the whole coastline of the Libyan capitol of Tripoli are just six boats like this, some which are not in particularly good service. You can't imagine how under resourced things are here so close to Europe.


(voice-over): These are the desperate scenes, as they tried to rescue some African migrants, whose dinghy collapsed late last year.


WALSH: Smugglers now prefer these dinghies, vulnerable to the slightest weather change.


WALSH: A trade borne of human misery. Some fleeing ISIS themselves, only to find ISIS now seek to hijack their deadly journey to spread more suffering.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Tripoli.


[13:40:39] BLITZER: Very powerful report. We want to thank Nick for doing that.

Let's get back to the race for the White House. Right now, Donald Trump is back in California the first day after clinching the Republican presidential nomination. He's speaking at a campaign rally in Fresno. I want to listen in. Let's listen in.

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: My environmental standard is very simple. And I've said it to everybody. I want clean air and I want clean water. That's what I want.


TRUMP: Clean air, clean water. Very, very simple.

So we're going to be back up here. I believe me, we'll start opening up the water so that you can have your farmers survive --


TRUMP: -- so that your job market will get better.


TRUMP: No, but there are some things inconceivable, that, you know, they happen and you wonder why. I'm asking why, why, why, and nobody can explain why they do this. But they do it. Your Senators are for it, but they're totally ineffective, unfortunately.


TRUMP: They're in effective. You know they're for it.

By the way, they are for you, and then to the other side, they're for it for them. And then you wonder, I wonder why nothing happens, but when you're with the Senators, they want you. And then go to the environmental side and they want them. And then you say, gee, that's strange. They're for me, we want the water, but the environmentalists just endorsed them, I wonder why. I'll tell you how it works, folks. So they play both sides of it. But they're actually not for you. So we'll see what happens. But we're going to get it done and done quick. Don't even think about it. That's an easy one. Don't even think about it.


TRUMP: So yesterday was a big day. You know, yesterday --



TRUMP: We're going to bring it back, folks. We're going to bring this country back. You know what it is? Look at those red hats, the hats, the black hats.


TRUMP: The gun-shooting hats. They do pretty well, I'll tell you.

Speaking of that, the NRA, last week, endorsed Donald Trump in the earliest endorsement they've ever given.


TRUMP: The earliest they've ever given. That was a great honor.

And Wayne and Chris and all the guys, these are great people. These are great Americans. These are people that want to see great things for the country. They try to build them, like sort of a radical agenda. It's not a radical agenda. It's called the Second Amendment, folks.


TRUMP: Now Hillary Clinton was to abolish the Second Amendment. Remember that.


TRUMP: She wants to abolish it. And it's a disgrace. I watched her on television, and it's hard for me to watch her, because, honestly, it's very boring. You know, it's very boring.


But I watched her last night, and lies so much, and she was saying last night so many things. Donald Trump wants to see Japan get nuclear weapons. I never said that. Donald Trump wants to see Germany get nuclear weapons. He wants to see South Korea arm themselves. I said, I didn't say that. I never even said close to that. Donald Trump loves North Korea. He loves the maniac that's running North Korea. I don't. Donald Trump is a friend of Putin. Well, actually, Putin did call me a future of the Republican Party.


TRUMP: He's off to a good start.


TRUMP: I will say, I will say he's off to a good start, right, folks.

And by the way, I'm not a friend of Putin. I don't know Putin. I never met him. I respect Putin. He's a strong leader, I can tell you that, unlike what we have. We have a pathetic leader. Pathetic.


TRUMP: We don't even have a leader. The word "leader." You go "leader" in quotes, right, but we don't even have a leader. But wouldn't it be nice if we could get along with Russia? Wouldn't that be nice?


TRUMP: We spent almost $5 trillion in the Middle East. And we're in worse shape today in the Middle East than we were 15 years ago. If these presidents would have gone away on vacation and not done anything, we'd be in better shape than we are today, if you think about it.


TRUMP: I was against the war in Iraq, totally against the war in Iraq.

[13:45:30] BLITZER: We're going to continue to monitor Donald Trump. He's getting into his opposition, he says, to the war on Iraq, going back to when it was launched during the Bush administration. We're going to continue to monitor what he's saying.

But we've got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:49:54] BLITZER: "Spoiler alert," that's what the Libertarian Party could be preparing for this year, playing spoiler as a third- party alternative to Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. It was 44 years ago that the first Libertarian ticket took part in the presidential election. That was also the last time anyone other than a Democrat or a Republican won any of the electoral votes.

Our Victor Blackwell is joining us now from Orlando, Florida, where the Libertarian Party is holding its convention this weekend.

Victor, what are they saying about their chances in this rather unusual political season?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they say they're getting the support, it's growing, and they will get the money. This is the first interview with Governors Gary Johnson and Bill Weld together. And it was a wide-ranging conversation about policy and strategy, from why Bill Weld is not a member of the Never Trump movement, to whether or not Gary Johnson would use cannabis in the White House. We started with Hillary Clinton and that scathing report from the I.G. at the State Department.


BLACKWELL: Governor Johnson, Governor Weld, thank you for being with us on CNN.



BLACKWELL: We'll talk about your candidacy and potential opponents in a moment. But I want to start with the news of the day and President Obama's historic visit to Hiroshima. And there were questions of whether or not the president would apologize. He did not. Would a President Johnson apologize? Do you think President Obama should have?

JOHNSON: Well, thinking about the decision that Truman made, I'm just glad that it wasn't a decision that I would have had to make. But given that so many lives were lost, and American lives were lost, and that we were at war, and brought an end, I certainly don't want to engage in second guessing. And, no, no apology. Given the time that this occurred, I would not be apologizing.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about something else that came out this week. The inspector general of the State Department released this scathing report about former Secretary Clinton's private e-mail server. Donald Trump has said that it is an example of a poor judgment, that it's possibly illegal, probably illegal, in his estimation. What do you glean from that report and from the secretary's use of a private server? JOHNSON: You know, I leave this to others completely. I know that

these questions exist. It's not something that I dwell on at all or will dwell on at all. Like I say, there are plenty of others that are involved in this. And at the end of the day, I don't think that she will be indicted. I don't see that happening. But like I say, this -- speaking politically, that's not something I'm going to ever engage in is -- look. I'm going to certainly talk about issue differences with Secretary Clinton but I'm not -- nothing's going to come out of my mouth regarding her e-mail.

BLACKWELL: So on this topic, and others, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have said that the other is unqualified to be president. Do you believe they're both qualified to be president?

JOHNSON: Well, I'll leave that to others. But exciting for me is running for president of the United States with Bill Weld and offering up another choice, a clear third choice in this. And at the end of the day, whether or not we're the nominees or not -- we hope to be the nominees here coming out of the Libertarian convention -- I think there will be a clear third choice.

BLACKWELL: Governor Weld, let me bring you into this because, in 2012, the Libertarian Party got about 1 percent of the general election vote. Let's say this year, with two governors on the ticket, and two other candidates who are highly -- have high unfavorables, you double that, how do you convince voters that is the Libertarian ticket is more than a spoiler? That you have a real shot at winning?

WELD: Well, I think are aspirations are substantially more than higher than doubling 1 percent showing. Gary is polling at 10 percent, almost sight unseen, in the national polls when he's been in the polls. And I think our challenge, coming out of this convention, if we should be fortunate enough to obtain the nominations, would be to go around, do what the building blocks of a campaign are, raise money, do as much media as possible, and elevate our profile, which is pretty high anyway because of the resistance of the electorate to both the other candidates. And then I think you're talking 10 percent, 15 percent. If we can get there, then I think we can make a real showing to be, you know, one of three among equals, not just a footnote.

BLACKWELL: How do you reach those disaffected Republicans? Because there are some Libertarian positions that are just not -- they don't correspond only with the Republican orthodoxy, but they --


WELD: I hope not. I hope not.

BLACKWELL: If you think about pro-marriage equality, pro- decriminalization of drugs, abortion rights, as well.

WELD: Right.

BLACKWELL: How do you win over those Republicans who don't believe in those things? [13:55:08] JOHNSON: Well, I actually believe that the majority of

Republicans actually hold those beliefs, or if they don't hold those beliefs, if they are social conservative, that it's really secondary to smaller government.

BLACKWELL: So you believe a majority Republicans are pro-abortion rights, pro-marriage equality?

JOHNSON: No, not necessarily. But the majority of Republicans really don't care about the social issues. What they care about mostly is small government. And I think both of us, having served as Republican governors in deeply blue states, understand that, that the majority of people in this country really are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Now back to Republicans. If they're not socially liberal, if they're socially conservative, at the end of the day, the majority of Republicans really don't care about those issues.

BLACKWELL: How do you compete --


JOHNSON: You actually -- well, the way that you compete is you actually give people the notion that you might be able to win. And to do that, very simply, we first have to be in the polls.

WELD: But that's going to be partly my job. I do agree with you that we're going to have to $20 million, $30 million in the kitty just for openers to persuade the media at they want to pay attention, but I think that's not beyond reach. There's a number of major donors who are Libertarian in orientation and I will make it my business to go see them.

BLACKWELL: Are you investing any of your money?

WELD: Yeah. That's not going to -- that's not going to move the needle, believe me. But if necessary, fine.

BLACKWELL: You were nominated soon after you -- I guess, before you resigned as governor of Massachusetts to be ambassador to Mexico by President Clinton. What is your relationship with the Clintons?

WELD: It's good. I worked with Mrs. Clinton back in the '70s. We were still in our 20s. That was on the Nixon impeachment. A fascinating time. Bill Clinton I got along with very well as fellow governors, and I was generally supportive of him as president, as well.

BLACKWELL: And you ran for New York governor. Do you have any relationship with Donald Trump?

WELD: I knew Donald socially in New York. That's all. But, yeah, we did see him and Melania around town a little bit.

BLACKWELL: What is your opinion of him? WELD: Well, you know, there's the Donald Trump you meet socially, and

he is a warm person, not an ungenerous person. Some of the stuff that he's running on I think is absolutely chaotic. I'm going to do this to Mexico. OK, that's a violation of the North American Free Trade agreement, which is the supreme law of the land. It is a treaty. We signed it. I'll do this to China. No questions asked. OK, that's a violation of the World Trade Organization rules, exposing us, the United States, to sanctions. And we would be the rogue nation. I don't think we want to be the rogue nation. You know? Let's let North Korea be the rogue nation, not us.

BLACKWELL: Governor Johnson, Donald Trump is no stranger to name calling. Hillary Clinton said she's not going to get into what she calls the gutter with him. During the February Libertarian debate, you called him a word so vulgar I cannot say it on CNN. Is that the way you will wage this campaign?

JOHNSON: No. It was a really poor attempt at humor. It was a total misfire. I apologize. And I'm better than that. And you won't see that at all.

BLACKWELL: But let me ask you, how do you then go after Donald Trump? Because some of the monikers he's handed out, they have stuck, and they have worked. How do you go after --

WELD: You don't go after anybody. I was never a member of the Never Trump crowd. I declined that invitation. I think he deserves credit for what he's been able to do, bringing people into the Republican Party. I think some of those people are going to stay in the Republican Party. But --

BLACKWELL: Would you call him a friend?

WELD: No, no. No, no. No.


BLACKWELL: Gary Johnson's campaign is headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah, the home of one of the heads of the Never Trump campaign, Mitt Romney. Johnson said he hasn't spoken with Mitt Romney since the second primary debate in 2012.

He says that he'll continue to raise that $20 million to $30 million trying to get to 15 percent to put up a fight on the debate stage in the fall -- Wolf?

BLITZER: They formally have to get the Libertarian nomination this weekend, right? Is that a done deal?

BLACKWELL: It is not a done deal. They're the clear front runners but that officially happens on Sunday, and then they'll move forward to try to raise the money and the support to get on the stage.

BLITZER: Victor Blackwell, reporting for us from Orlando, where the Libertarian Party convention is taking place right now.

Victor, thank you very much for bringing us the first joint interview between these two Libertarian candidates.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

In the meantime, the news continues right here on CNN.

[14:00:12] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Happy Friday. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Brooke --