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CIA Corrects Director's Saying Russia Didn't Impact Election; Bush, Obama Blast Trump over Divisive Politics; Video Shows Kelly's Erroneous Claim about Lawmaker's Speech; Inside Underground ISIS Prisons in Raqqa. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 20, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:00] MIKE POMPEO, CIA DIRECTOR: I'm not sure there can be anything more important than that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.

POMPEO: That we conducted an election that had integrity. Yes, the intelligence community's assessment is that the Russian meddling that took place did not affect the outcome of the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right. Now, he made a mistake because that was not the intelligence community's assessment. They had to issue a statement following what the director said pointing out that the intelligence community's assessment was that they couldn't make a final determination whether any votes were changed. They did conclude the Russians interfered. They did conclude the Russians wanted to sow dissent in the U.S., wanted to undermine Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump. But they could not conclude that actual voting results had changed. So they fixed what the director had said.

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, there's a difference between being skewed and changing the outcome. If it had gone from a 70/30 vote to a 51/49 vote because of Russian meddling, but the same side had still won, the outcome might have been skewed but it was not changed. And I think bouncing back and forth between definitions of affecting fundamentally and so forth is one of the sources of confusion.

BLITZER: Well, he said flatly, it did not affect the outcome.

WOOLSEY: The outcome.

BLITZER: So in other words, what you're suggesting is what Pompeo was saying was accurate?

WOOLSEY: Yes, I think if it didn't affect the outcome -

(CROSSTALK)

WOOLSEY: -- and that's what he said. BLITZER: But the CIA put out a statement fixing what he said.

WOOLSEY: It's still -- skewed means turned or twisted and perhaps changed somewhat.

BLITZER: The original intelligence community report -- looking at it -- did not assess whether Russia had successfully impacted the election. Only that they interfered for various purposes but did not conclude that they had actually impacted the election.

WOOLSEY: Well, that's yet another word to play with in here. And you can impact something and skew it and still not change the outcome. The key question in terms of the past election is whether it affected the outcome. It apparently, did not. The next election, which we ought to be getting ready for right now, is up for grabs. We don't want Mr. Putin casting our votes because people made changes back just after 2000 in the electoral machinery and electronics and thought it would be a good idea to get rid of all paper trails. Well, that was really a dumb decision because you only can do a vote count if you have a paper trail.

BLITZER: So bottom line, the Russians haven't stopped.

WOOLSEY: Absolutely not. They've been doing this since the 1930s in one way or another. What's new is they're doing it with cyber. But interfering with people's elections, Russia thinks nothing of it.

BLITZER: Social media very actively as well.

WOOLSEY: Yes.

BLITZER: Former director of the CIA, James Woolsey, thanks very much.

WOOLSEY: Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Extraordinary attacks on President Trump from his two predecessors. Why all five living American presidents are getting ready to get together without the current commander-in-chief. We'll tell you what's going on.

Plus, video surfaces from a 2015 speech by the lawmaker involved in a rather nasty feud with the White House. Video that shows chief of staff, John Kelly, made an erroneous claim in his attack on her over a call the president made to a soldier's widow. We'll have that for you. A lot more. Stay with us.

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[13:37:42] BLITZER: A rare sight in politics here in the United States. Two former presidents both speaking out with one clear message, the current state of politics is not OK. The former President George W. Bush and the former President Barack Obama spoke at separate events yesterday. Both men blasted President Trump without ever mentioning his name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our young people need positive role models. Bullying and prejudices in our public life sets a national tone, provides permission for cruelty and bigotry, and compromises the moral education of children. The only way to pass along civic values is to first live up to them.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you have to win a campaign by dividing people, you're not going to be able to govern them.

(CHEERING)

OBAMA: You won't be able to unite them later, if that's how you start.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Let's discuss this and more. Joining us, the diplomatic correspondent for "The Washington Post" Anne Gearan. The senior White House correspondent for "Bloomberg News, and CNN political analyst, Margaret Talev. And CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

So two former presidents on different locations, coincidentally, I think, speaking out making it clear that they're very critical of the current president.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: What occurs to me is that President Trump will not receive this well. They didn't mention his name. And that's OK. But it's very clear who they were referring to. And I think particularly grading for him will be the comments from someone of his own party, George W. Bush. And so I'm kind of waiting for some tweets to appear about it and maybe they've told the president, you know, don't do that, don't tweet about former presidents. But I think that members of the club don't usually talk about each other while they're in office. They try to refrain from that. But even with the absence of Donald Trump's name here, it was very clear who they were both referring to. And I'm surprised we haven't seen some reaction yet.

BLITZER: Margaret, you're surprised?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What was particularly surprising about George W. Bush. First of all, his comments were sort of much more to the point than President Obama's.

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BLITZER: He made a powerful speech.

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[13:40:02] BLITZER: Very carefully written speech. He had a purpose there.

TALEV: Yes. And, I mean, President Obama had run against President Bush his entire legacy and President Bush's responses to that was go paint and find himself again. So for him to come out and this event was being planned for more than a year, he had months to think about and certainly weeks to think about how hard he wanted to go in these remarks. And this is where he landed.

They were certainly both yesterday sending a message, but I'm not sure the message was to President Trump. I think the message was to the American electorate, to voters and also to Republicans in Congress. And the question is, you know, sort of what happens next. It's an important marker for sure. But when the folks, kind of try to draw the boundaries around the president, are either retiring from office or not seeking re-election or dealing with the health struggle, you know, whether you're McCain, whether you're Corker or whether you're a past president who's not going to run again that's really not the same thing as taking the people who are engaging day-to-day with the administration.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: -- take it personally. There's no doubt about it.

TALEV: And he should. That's how they were intended.

BLITZER: Anne, it comes just before this weekend when all five former presidents are getting together at an event to deal with hurricane relief efforts in Texas. The current president won't be there.

ANNE GEARAN, DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes. I mean, the event apparently was set up that way with the former presidents as a way for them to, you know, raise money and attention and so forth. But it is striking. I mean, the current president isn't traveling anywhere or doing anything major that we know of this weekend, although he did obviously host the governor of Puerto Rico at the White House yesterday for an extensive discussion of hurricane relief and his role in it. But this is -- the weekend will call attention to the fact that the former presidents have been extremely active in trying to keep attention on the ongoing relief struggle in Puerto Rico as well as in southern states.

BLITZER: Gloria, let me get your reaction to this feud that's now developing between the White House chief of staff, John Kelly, and Democratic Congresswoman Frederica Wilson. He really went after her, calling her an empty barrel yesterday. Saying she had, back in 2015, bragged about getting the money to build an FBI building named after two slain FBI agents in Miami.

And let me play some clips and then we'll discuss because this is getting pretty ugly.

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JOHN KELLY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: And a congresswoman stood up and in the long tradition of empty barrels making the most noise stood up there in all of that and talked about how she was instrumental in getting the funding for that building, and how she took care of her constituents because she got the money, and she just called up President Obama and on that phone call he gave the money the $20 million to build a building. She sat down. And we were stunned. Stunned that she'd done it. Even for someone that is that empty a barrel, we were stunned.

REP. FREDRICA WILSON, (D), FLORIDA: Consider this scenario. The brand-new federal building that will House the FBI has been built. And the FBI approaches my office. Congresswoman Wilson, the ribbon cutting has been scheduled in four short weeks. The dedication is on the government's calendar and cannot be changed. One problem, the FBI wants to name this gorgeous edifice at the same time in four weeks. Everyone said that's impossible. It takes at least eight months to a year to complete the process through the House, through the Senate and to the president's office. I said I'm a school principal. And I said, excuse my French, oh, hell no. We're going to get this done. Immediately, I went to attack mode. I went to the speaker, Speaker Boehner. And I said, Mr. Speaker, I need your help. The FBI needs your help. And our country needs your help. And we have no time to waste. He went into attack mode. And in two days, pulled it out of committee, brought it to the floor for a vote. Representative and I presented it, we all voted, and I dashed it over to the Senate and put our Senators on notice, put it on your radar. Senator Nelson and Senator Rubio, who I believe have representatives here today, they hot-lined it to the Senate floor in just two days. And guess what, the president signed the bill into law this past Tuesday, April 7th, 2015, with a bang, bang, bang!

(CHEERING)

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[13:45:31] BLITZER: We watched the whole video. The "Sun Sentinel" newspaper had the whole video. She never spoke about raising the money, bragging about that.

BORGER: No.

BLITZER: That was never in her speech. The White House chief of staff was clearly wrong in making that accusation calling her an empty barrel.

And this morning, when she was on CNN's "New Day," she pointed out that the funding was originally put forward back in 2009. She wasn't even in the U.S. Congress.

BORGER: Look, I think he misremembered. The story he told wasn't accurate. And you can see it in she was talking about the naming of the building, not the funding for the building.

BLITZER: For two slain FBI officers.

BORGER: For two slain FBI officers. And then, you know, she asked as you go on in the tape she asked for law enforcement officials in the audience to stand so they could be applauded. And then she told the story for another few minutes about the slain FBI agents for whom the building was named. And so I think that it may be that General Kelly and the Congresswoman ought to get together and have a conversation about this.

BLITZER: But, you know, Margaret, the White House put out a statement doubling down on this empty barrel notion basically insisting that General Kelly was right when, clearly, he was not.

TALEV: Yes. And what they seem to be saying is that he was right about the thrust of it, that she wanted to take political credit for herself rather than --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But he specifically said she was bragging about getting the $20 million.

TALEV: Of course. It's just set it up not being accurate.

BLITZER: So does he owe her an apology?

TALEV: This is --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: He's not the president. He's the White House chief of staff. He's a gentleman. I know General Kelly. He's a responsible gentleman. If he made a mistake, he's one who acknowledges that he made a mistake. And he will correct it. He can say, she shouldn't have been bragging about getting this through the House and then the Senate as quickly as she did, but as far as bragging about the money, she never did.

TALEV: Yes, I mean, I think we'll all be watching to see kind of behind the scenes how that plays out. But at the same time, I'm not sure that it will matter politically, this fact checking for purposes of what he was seeking to accomplish yesterday, which was to take completely out of play an issue that the president was really having trouble kind of putting to rest. Controversies the president had started himself by questioning, essentially by thrusting General Kelly's own personal tragedy into the spotlight and then talking about whether President Obama had done this the right way. And in General Kelly's comments yesterday, although, I think the overarching accomplishment was essentially to mute the issue, to help President Trump take this issue largely off the table, one of the subsets was to acknowledge that President Trump had said things that might have been received poorly by the widow on the phone. To acknowledge, you know, that to acknowledge a lot of elements and to -- it was critical of Trump in a way as well even as it was also largely critical of the media and of the Congresswoman.

BLITZER: Very quickly, Anne.

GEARAN: Margaret's right that Kelly's purpose yesterday was to put this all to rest. And in one person whose own history and including poignantly the death of his son in battle is supposed to resonate in a way that says this is it, this is, you know, this issue is over. And instead his inaccuracies and the questions surrounding what he said ends up actually prolonging a controversy that's been very damaging for the White House.

BORGER: We'll see if they end up having a conversation.

BLITZER: Yes, they should have a conversation.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: She should have a conversation and General Kelly, he should speak with her, and then they should move on.

The president doesn't want to move on. He tweeted last night, "We assumed after General Kelly spoke it was over, the fake news is going crazy with wacky Congresswoman Wilson who secretly -- who was secretly on a very personal call and gave a total lie on content."

So clearly, he's not yet ready to move on. We'll see what the White House press secretary says. That briefing is coming up shortly.

[13:49:33] Coming up here, CNN goes inside Raqqa. The ISIS stronghold, now liberated by U.S.-backed forces, including a close look at the group's secret underground prisons. We're going there live. Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Total liberation, that was the declaration today in Raqqa, Syria. The former ISIS stronghold liberated by U.S.-backed Syrian militias, now being handed over to civilian leaders.

Joining us to talk about this, our own Arwa Damon, in northern Syria. And Nick Paton Walsh is right near Raqqa.

Arwa, tell us about the emotions there during the handover and the importance of the site of the ceremony.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIOINAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, understandably, especially among the fighters, who had lost so many of their fellow fighters during the fighting, it was very significant. The Syrian Democratic Forces finally handing over control of Raqqa, although, they will still continue to secure it to the Raqqa Civilian Council that will now be facing the enormous task of trying to rebuild that city. They can't do it until it's completely clear of mines, something that won't happen probably for another three to four months. The ceremony is happening at the stadium in Raqqa. This is significance because it's where ISIS made its final stance. It's also a location they used as a prison. In fact, it's main prison, we were told -- Wolf?

[13:55:17] BLITZER: Let me go to Nick.

Nick, you were, what, one of the first into the hold city, the old part, very old, ancient part of Raqqa earlier this year just when it was being liberated. What are you now seeing in Raqqa's center? You were there. Are you get a clear picture of what life was like under ISIS control? NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's hard

to tell because the most staggering thing, Wolf, about that city is, is there are no people. The only people we came across today were the SDF fighters celebrating the victory in that stadium. You see signs of what life must have been like. In the underground part of the stadium, there was a series of jail cells. The one that caught my eye most was where ISIS seemed to have held their own foreign prisoners, members of ISIS ranks from overseas, who, they decided, had been spying for maybe the coalition. There were remarkable bits of graffiti on the wall, often names in different languages. There would write how long they had spent in that jail, because if they got released or perhaps got executed, but also, too, in English, chillingly. A large sign basically explaining why he may have ended up inside that jail. Saying, maybe you were caught red-handed committing a crime. Maybe you forgot to switch the GPS locator off when you sent a tweet. Maybe you used an insecure Wi-Fi. All the different parts of life under ISIS laid out in full. Chilling to see in there exactly what they were willing to do to their own.

Also, Wolf, we did see, in fact, an American there, John, a 24-year- old from Colorado. Five months ago, he was a computer engineer working IT support. Threw it all in, came out here. Never expected to be fighting actually on the front line in Raqqa. He sounded like he enjoyed it to some degree. Actually, seemed sad the fight was, in fact, over, but glad they defeated ISIS. I asked him, are you to go back and join? No, was the answer to the both. I think life as a computer engineer seems farfetched now -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Certain does. Lots of stories. I'm sure you will a he both be reporting extensively on this very historic moment.

Arwa Damon, Nick Paton Walsh, on behalf of all of our viewers, thanks so much.

Once again, we're moments away from the White House press briefing. The administration faces new questions on the Niger ambush. Looking at live pictures coming in from the White House. The war of words over the president's call with a soldier's widow. Much more on that. Stay with us.

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