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New Details on Niger Ambush Investigation; Corker: Trump Tax Cut Meeting a Photo-OP; Corker: Trump Has World Credibility Problem; Trump: We'll Never Forget Americans Killed by Hezbollah; Afghan Government Photoshops Tillerson/Ghani Meeting Photo. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 24, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:30] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: There's breaking news about the investigation into the ambush in Niger.

Our chief national correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is at the Pentagon working his sources.

Jim, update the viewers on the news that you're learning because it adds new light on what actually happened.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. We're learning multiple officials, military officials telling us that part of the mission of this U.S. Army team was to gather intelligence on a known terrorist leader believed to be operating in that same area. In addition to that, they were meeting with local leaders, local leader engagement, as they call it, and that was part of their job, go out, speak to these people and ask them, gather intelligence as they do that on what was believed to be a senior terror leader operating in the area.

I should make clear that it was not part of their mission or their orders to kill or capture this leader. That kind of job would be reserved for more elite Special Forces teams, ones with more backup, et cetera. This was purely an intelligence gathering operation.

Of course, as we reported earlier as they were leaving with local leaders, it's believed, they believe they were delayed somewhat. Some suspicions in the air. One thing they were investigating is whether they were delayed on purpose to set them up for an ambush after the fact by these some 50 ISIS-affiliated fighters that came in.

But to be clear, again, part of their mission was to gather intelligence on a known terror leader operating in the area. It was not their mission to capture, military officials telling us.

BLITZER: Very interesting. There's another new element that we're learning. The original reporting, as you well know, had those French Mirage fighter jets overhead in, what, half an hour, 30 minutes or so. What is the Pentagon now saying about that?

SCIUTTO: First, we learned there was a U.S. drone operating in the area at the time of the attack. Within minutes, General Dunford told us at the Pentagon yesterday, that U.S. drone was over the site of this, observing. It did not fire on the militants. But it was over the site observing. We know that French Mirage jets came in as well, again, observing. They did not fire their weapons either. That's one thing that's being investigated. They were under no restrictions from doing so, General Dunford made clear, but they did not pick up targets on the ground to fire. This happening about an hour into the firefight. An hour into the firefight before the U.S. troops on the ground called in for support from the air.

BLITZER: The investigation over the Pentagon continues. They have some FBI agents on the ground as well helping out.

Jim Scuitto, at the Pentagon, thanks very much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

BLITZER: In the operation, of course, four soldiers were killed, Staff Sergeant Dustin Wright, Staff Sergeant Jeremiah Johnson, Staff Sergeant Bryan Black and Sergeant La David Johnson. Two others were wounded. Five Nigerian soldiers were killed in this operation.

Here with us to discuss, retired U.S. Army Colonel Steve Warren, a CNN military analyst and former spokesman for the anti-ISIS coalition in Iraq. Also with us, Elliot Akerman, CNN's newest national security analyst. He's an author and contributor for the "New Yorker," "Esquire" magazine, among others.

Guys, thanks very much.

Elliot, welcome to CNN.

ELLIOT AKERMAN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Thank you.

BLITZER: Good to have you with us.

You served five tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. You hear about the delay in this mission. What goes through your mind? Because when you served, you were on similar missions.

AKERMAN: I think the thing that's important to consider is they were going into an area where they probably had incomplete intelligence. If they were looking for this individual, who is some type of Islamic State leader, you know, who is that person an interest to, to the Nigerians, the Americans, there are a lot of things that aren't clear. If it was a setup, obviously, it's something where they would be held up for a little while, so the conditions have been put in place to launch some type of ambush, which this sounds like this was.

BLITZER: It looks like there was an intelligence failure. The investigation is continuing, Steve. But, you go into a sensitive area like this without armored personnel carriers, I don't know if they were wearing body armor but, clearly, they weren't anticipating an attack by 50 ISIS-inspired at least terrorists.

STEVE WARREN, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. There's no question, Wolf, that this was a surprise attack. They were not ready for this attack. Sometimes we believe intelligence is magic, intelligence is perfect. It's not. It's an imperfect science. We know that folks are working as hard as they can to gather the intelligence but there's times when the enemy gets a vote and they get to slip in and this one got past.

[13:35:03] BLITZER: We all know that La David Johnson, one of the sergeants who was killed, his body was found 48 hours later. He was separated from the other three. And 48 hours later, and it was unclear, you know, why -- what happened there, but it's raising a lot of questions, especially for the family.

ACKERMAN: I think something you also can't under estimate is how chaotic something like this was. You go to an environment that, by and large, the estimation was pretty permissible beforehand, if these people were running -- the Special Forces soldiers were running a patrol there. Then, within a short period of time, we realized that there are up to 50 militants in there. So the idea of it taking two days, you can't just go back in and search for that body. You have to go in in a very deliberate way. You don't know exactly where Sergeant Johnson wound up, and you have to start a search pattern. So there's lots of questions right now, and I think what we're seeing out of the Pentagon is a very deliberate investigation that's trying to get the answers.

BLITZER: This investigation is really important because most people didn't know that the U.S. has, what, 1,000 troops in Niger right now. They certainly didn't know how potentially dangerous it is. And there's a lot of questions that members of Congress, the American public, especially the families have.

WARREN: There are a lot of questions, Wolf. It's important that everyone take a -- kind of take a breather and let this investigation play out. We can't lose sight of the fact that it's a very important mission that they're conducting in Africa. This mission is in America's national interests. The worse thing we can do is overreact before we know all of the circumstances. In other words, to place heavy restrictions on these guys who are out there engaging with the Africans every day, engaging with the Nigerian forces every day, building them up, and really helping us fight this enemy overseas rather than here.

BLITZER: Yes, I suspect if there were 1,000 U.S. troops in Niger going out on a reconnaissance mission or an intelligence-gathering mission, they're wearing body armor and they're in armored vehicles right now in case there are other attacks along these linings. They have to learn the lessons from this to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Guys, thanks very much.

WARREN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Up on Capitol Hill right now, presumably tense meeting underway between the president and several of his Republican critics, including Senator Bob Corker, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, who essentially called the president, earlier today, a failure. I'll speak live with a Republican lawmaker about whether he agrees.

Plus, a very disturbing new warning, why Japan now says North Korea's nuclear threat is, quote, "an imminent, an imminent level." We'll have details.

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[13:42:00] BLITZER: Right now, President Trump is in his luncheon meeting with Republican Senators up on Capitol Hill, making his sales pitch for his tax cut agenda. Cuts worth more than $1 trillion. Senator Bob Corker, one of the president's most vocal critics, says he's skeptical about the value of the meeting. He's calling it's a photo op that's underway right now.

Congressman Francis Rooney is joining us. He's a Republican from Florida. He's a member of both the Joint Economic Committee as well as the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

REP. FRANCIS ROONEY, (R), FLORIDA: Thanks for having me on, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just in the past four hours or so, Senator Corker suggested the president's a liar. He suggested the president has debased the United States. Hasn't risen to the occasion as president. Suggested that he needs watching. He needs to be in a day care center, and that he's not a good role model for children. Do you agree with any of this?

ROONEY: No, I don't. And I don't agree with the principle involved here. You know, if we didn't have so many big problems to try to solve that this is distracting us from, it might be different. But this is a tragic, almost kind of soap opera here when we have really threatening challenges to our country that we need to work on.

BLITZER: Because the Senator, Senator Corker, suggests that the president in effect represents a threat, he needs to be watched by his national security advisor, his chief of staff, the secretary of defense, the secretary of state. Without that kind of observance, he fears the president could lead the country into what he calls World War III. Are you concerned about any of that?

ROONEY: I think that Senator Corker has just made himself judge, jury, and executioner. Of course, I'm concerned about nuclear war and any kind of excessive force. But you look at what the president has accomplished by getting China involved in North Korea. I was for him refusing to certify the Iran agreement until we bring Iran to the table to let us know what goes on in their military bases. They stopped their ballistic missile program. We need a little tough love out there and the president and Secretary Tillerson have given that.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the main subject of this luncheon with Republican Senators, tax cuts. On the tax push, by spontaneously taking various positions on Twitter, is the president, as some of his critics are suggesting, actually undermining the process with the House and the Senate? ROONEY: Well, first of all, I'm he not sure what the process is.

We're supposed to be working on a bill over here that no one has seen any details of. I keep hearing a rumor here, a rumor there. It's almost like that Italian politician, I want to see what we're doing. I'd like to see some specifics will come out as to what the president would agree to, what the Senators would agree to.

BLITZER: That's a fair point. But the president, as you know, over these past several days and weeks, he's taken several sensitive items off the table, entitlements, for example, no cuts at all to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. Now he says no cuts at all to 401Ks, which are very popular with a lot of middle class families. They won't be touched.

Here's the question: You want to make sure that there aren't trillion dollar increases to the national debt, to the deficit as a result of these tax cuts, where are you going to cut?

[13:45:14] ROONEY: Well, if you cut the state and local tax deduction, you pick up a trillion and a half.

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BLITZER: That's very unpopular with states like California, New York, other states, where there are significant state income taxes. You're going to have a number Republicans in those states who are not going to be happy.

ROONEY: You're right, Wolf. We've got them ling up in the room where we're at. The fact of the matter, is it's a sea change of principle going to a double standard deduction and simplifying the payment of the taxes. On that three-by-five card, only 4 or 5 percent of people are going to itemize. If only four or five percent of the people itemize, it seems, by definition, any deduction they leave in place will be paid by the higher-income people.

BLITZER: So if it's going to cost, in the first 10 years, let's say, a trillion and a half dollars, the deficit, the national debt will go up by a trillion and a half, $1.5 trillion, are you going to vote for it?

ROONEY: I'm going to have trouble voting for something that increases the debt to $1.5 trillion. I'm going to have trouble voting for something that's not a pure simplification rate reduction using the elimination of all of the lobbyist carve outs to pay for it.

BLITZER: You're going to vote for the Senate passed budget. It will come up on the House floor without any changes. I assume, you'll vote for that, right?

ROONEY: What I've got a balance, and I've been speaking about it an awful lot, is the fact that the budget is basically a vehicle to get to a reconciliation tax vote of 51 Senators. That's a good thing. If that's the case, does it really matter what the budget says? If it doesn't matter what the budget says, I don't know why the Senate couldn't have passed ours conservatively. BLITZER: Let me get your thoughts on another issue. The president

earlier tweeted his praise or comments on Hezbollah, the Iran-backed -- the U.S. regards it as an Iran-backed terrorist organization. The strong comments that Vice President Pence made in a ceremony honoring the 241 military personnel, mostly Marines, killed at their barracks back in 1983 outside of Beirut. Here's what the vice president said.

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MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The brutal act that brings us here today was planned and perpetrated by the terrorists of Hezbollah. Under President Trump's leadership we've redoubled our commitment to cripple Hezbollah's leadership and bring its leaders to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: This past summer, as you may remember, maybe not, he welcomed the Lebanese prime minister to the White House. They were speaking in the Rose Garden and the president praised the government of Lebanon, in his words, on "being on the front line of the fight against terror groups, including Hezbollah." But you probably know this -- the president clearly did not know it -- that Hezbollah is a major partner in the Lebanese government right now. The Lebanese government is not fighting Hezbollah. The Lebanese government includes Hezbollah.

Here's the question: Are you concerned that he isn't familiar enough with these important nuances of the conflicts, and there are many underway in the Middle East.

ROONEY: When I had dinner with him a few weeks ago with a few foreign policy experts, he seemed to have a very strong grasp of some of the problems that we faced in the world. I have personal experience with Lebanon having worked that issue as an ambassador during the 2006 war. You're absolutely right. Lebanon's had a historic Christian, Jews Hezbollah coalition. That coalition is nominated by one or another party. Right now, unfortunately, Hezbollah has the upper hand.

BLITZER: Yes, they're a major player in the Lebanese government right now, as you point out, Jews, Christians, Sunni and Shiite Muslims as well. But Hezbollah, the Lebanese government is not fighting them. They're part of that Lebanese government.

Congressman Francis Rooney, thanks so much for joining us. We'll certainly welcome you back.

ROONEY: Thank you for having me on, Wolf.

[13:49:14] BLITZER: Up next, as Japan issues a news warning about North Korea's imminent threat, Senator Corker make a blistering comment about how world leaders see President Trump. Stand by for that.

Plus, why did Afghanistan appear to Photoshop a picture of its meeting with the Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and the president of Afghanistan? You'll see what they didn't want the Afghan public to know.

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BLITZER: Senator Bob Corker, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, did not mince words when he spoke about President Trump today saying that the president has a problem with the truth and the international community is taking note.

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SEN. BOB CORKER, (R-TN), CHAIRMAN, SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Unfortunately, I think world leaders are very much aware that much of what he says is untrue. Certainly, people here are, because these things are provably untrue. I mean, they are just factually incorrect, and people know the difference. So I don't know why he lowers himself to such a low, low standard and debases our country in the way that he does.

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BLITZER: Let's discuss this and more with CNN military analyst, retired Rear Admiral John Kirby. He's a former State Department and Pentagon spokesperson.

Are you concerned that the world leaders think that President Trump is not telling the truth and has a credibility problem around the world?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY & DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: I think definitely there's a credibility problem. I think they're concerned about two things. One, there's a lack of clarity on where the United States is going on foreign policies objectives. They hear Tillerson and Mattis say one thing, and they see the president's tweets which often undermine them.

I think they are also concerned about the decline of U.S. leadership around the world. That worries them. That's why you see leaders, like President Macron, in France, and Chancellor Merkel, in Germany, taking initiative on their own and trying to move balls forward. And you see other countries, like Russia and China, wanting to step in and fill what they perceive to be a growing vacuum of U.S. leadership.

[13:55:35] BLITZER: I want to show you two pictures as we await the president to emerge with Republican leaders. You see the hallway over there at the U.S. Senate.

Two pictures, Rex Tillerson, the secretary of state. He showed up in Afghanistan to meet with the Afghan president. Take a look at those two pictures over there. On one picture, there was a clock that was removed by the Afghan -- they didn't want to show the people of Afghanistan that the meeting didn't take place at Kabul. It took place at Bagram Military Base. What does that say that they have to meet at a bomb shelter rather than at the Afghan president's offices in the capital?

KIRBY: It certainly speaks to a much more tense security situation in Kabul. No doubt about it. We know the Taliban is continuing to gain ground and to cause attacks there in Kabul. It certainly speaks to a more dangerous security situation.

And it's embarrassing from a P.R. perspective because you have the U.S. State Department picture being accurately depicted, and President Ghani, and the presidential office sort of doctoring this photo, which is completely inappropriate to do.

BLITZER: It also speaks volumes, the secretary of states of the United States has to go in secret to Afghanistan or Iraq. They can never announce it in advance for security reasons.

KIRBY: That's right.

BLITZER: All right. We'll continue our analysis of that. Stand by.

Much more coming on. Once again, President Trump is up on Capitol Hill. He's going to emerge any moment now, we're told, from his meeting with Republican Senators, including Senator Bob Corker, who is there. The two traded some major insults earlier today.

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