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Harris Stumping in Iowa; Video of Saudi Body Double; Turkish Police Find Abandoned Saudi Car; New Tax Cut Plan; Caravan Gets Larger; Rolling back Transgender Protections; Interview With Rep. Tom Reed. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 22, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:22] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York. Thanks very much for joining us.

We start with major political news. It's the final sprint right now -- the final sprint to the midterm elections. We're just 15 days away and President Trump is moving full steam ahead, holding rallies across the country. Four stops this week alone as he fights for Republicans to hold control of Congress. He's squaring off against former President Obama, who's also hitting the campaign trail. Both parties sending out their strongest politicians to bring their message home to voters. These rallies all being held today alone.

Let's check in with CNN's national political reporter Maeve Reston. She's joining us from Iowa right now where Senator Kamala Harris of California is stumping for Democrats.

So, Maeve, what can you tell us?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, so this is a fascinating first visit for Kamala Harris. Really one of her first auditions. She looks at the 2020 race and whether she will run.

She's here in Iowa campaigning for down ballot candidates, including Cindy Axne, who's in a very tight race here in the third congressional district. And they are saying that this is all about the midterms, pumping up particularly millennials and younger voters. Early voting is already underway in Iowa, Wolf, and the students here are really excited to see her. But also about the midterms. There is just an electricity around the country that you see as these races as tightening here and in so many other competitive states.

This is the first time that Harris has been back to Iowa since she campaigned for Barack Obama in 2008. And back then she was a district attorney coming out of California. Just a -- you know, a nobody. And she's coming back now as one of the potential big contenders for 2020, Wolf.

BLITZER: I suspect we'll be seeing her in New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, a whole bunch of other states fairly soon.

Maeve, thank you very much.

We'll get back to politics in a moment. But there are major developments also in the case of Jamal Khashoggi. A body double, an abandoned car, and new interrogations. In a CNN exclusive, we uncover more clues in the mystery of what really happened to the murdered journalist, Jamal Khashoggi. Surveillance video appears to show one of the Saudi men suspected in Khashoggi's death leaving the consulate dressed in Khashoggi's clothes.

Our chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, uncovers the background of this body double.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At first glance this man could almost pass for Jamal Khashoggi. And that's the idea. These are the last known images of Khashoggi alive, moments before he entered the Saudi consulate. Take a look, same clothes, same glasses and beard, similar age and physique. Everything except the shoes.

But a senior Turkish official tells CNN that the man on the left is a body double, one of 15 Saudi operatives sent to kill Khashoggi and then cover it up. His name is Mustafa Elmedani (ph). Surveillance cameras capture him arriving at the consulate in a plaid shirt and jeans at 11:03 with an accomplice. Two hours later, Khashoggi arrives. He was killed inside shortly afterwards.

WARD (on camera): While Khashoggi's fiance waited in front of the consulate, we're told Elmadani came out through this back exit. Disturbingly, he appears to have been wearing the actual clothing of the murdered journalist. The intent, Turkish investigators say, was to perpetuate the lie that Jamal Khashoggi left the consulate unharmed.

WARD (voice over): The apparent double and his companion take a taxi to Sultinamic (ph) mosque. It's one of Istanbul's main tourist attractions and an easy place to get lost in a crowd.

The men head to the bathroom. The accomplice carries a plastic bag. When they emerge, Elmadani is wearing his own clothes again.

WARD (on camera): And just like that, Jamal Khashoggi has disappeared forever, or so the Saudis would have had the world believe. Little did they know Turkish authorities would quickly uncover the cover-up.

WARD (voice over): From their next stop at a nearby restaurant, where Elmadani appears to have ditched his fake beard, to a dumpster where the men finally dump the plastic bag. The senior official says investigators believe it likely contained Khashoggi's clothes.

As they head back to their hotel, the pair appear visibly relaxed. Their mission is complete.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is joining us now live from Istanbul.

[13:05:01] Amazing reporting, Clarissa. Thank you so much for doing that excellent work.

Update our viewers on another important potential development unfolding, Turkish police saying they found an abandoned Saudi consulate car today. What do we know about that?

WARD: That's right, Wolf. So what we're learning mostly from Turkish media reports is that police have essentially cordoned off a parking garage in Istanbul, not in this area where the consulate is, and that inside that parking garage there is believed to be an abandoned Saudi consulate vehicle. Heavy police presence. All indications are they think this may somehow be related to Khashoggi's murder, though it's not clear yet how.

Also today, Wolf, Turkish justice minister interviewing a number of people, more than 20 employees of the consulate behind me, going over statements, trying to get their stories straight. And tomorrow this will be an important day because President Erdogan, the Turkish president, saying that he is promising he will reveal the full truth of what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.

Wolf.

BLITZER: And getting back, Clarissa, to that body double. Do we know why the Saudis didn't release pictures or video of that body double leaving the consulate and hope that people would simply assume it was Jamal Khashoggi?

WARD: Well, that we really scratched our heads over, Wolf, because, of course, for days the Saudis insisted that Jamal Khashoggi had walked unharmed out of the consulate. And you would think that if they wanted to bolster that argument, they would have release footage of the double doing just that. But they didn't. There could be a number of reasons for it. One possibility that we've considered is that they already knew that their plot had been exposed by Turkish officials. Because Khashoggi's fiance was waiting outside for him, because she called government advisers here, sounding the alarm after just a couple of hours of him being inside. Then, of course, we know Turkish intelligence officials rushed to the airport, actually boarded one of those Saudi private jets that was taking half of the operatives back home. That may have tipped them off that the Turks were on to them and it may have changed their calculation about releasing the footage, Wolf.

BLITZER: Great reporting, Clarissa. Thank you so much.

Clarissa Ward in Istanbul for us.

Donald Trump's son-in-law, senior adviser, Jared Kushner, breaking his silence today, speaking exclusively to CNN about the investigation into the death of Jamal Khashoggi. Kushner has cultivated a very close relationship with the Saudi crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman.

Our political commentator, Van Jones, asked Kushner if he trusted Saudi Arabia's account of what happened to Khashoggi. Here's his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: We're more in the fact finding phase. And we're obviously getting as many facts as we can from the different places. And then we'll determine which facts are credible. And, after that, the president and the secretary of state will make a determination as to what we deem to be credible and what actions we think we should take.

We have our eyes wide open. I think that, again, the president is focused on what's good for America, what are our strategic interests.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What kind of advice did you give MBS in this whole situation?

KUSHNER: Just to be transparent. To be fully transparent. The world is watching. This is a very, very serious accusation and a very serious situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, joining us now from Ithaca, New York, Congressman Tom Reed. He's a Republican. He's a member of the House Ways and Means Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. We've got lots to get through.

Jared Kushner says that while the administration collect facts on the Saudi story, the president is focused on what's good for the country right now. What's in the best interest of the United States. Do you believe it's in the best interest of the United States simply to look the other way and simply accept Saudi Arabia's explanation for the death of this journalist?

REP. TOM REED (R)-NY, WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE: No, Wolf, I do not believe America can look the other way. What we have to do is obviously get all the facts, get all the evidence. But accountability needs to be imposed here. You cannot allow a killing like this to go unaddressed by America. And we have a strategic interest that had to be taken into consideration, but we are in a position to address this.

BLITZER: Do you believe the Saudi explanation that there was a fist fight that got out of control and Khashoggi wound up being killed?

REED: We'll have to see. There's no doubt that he was killed. He was with Saudi Arabian officials when that occurred. And so we've just got to wait for those final details.

But being able to impose sanctions, not -- we have to keep this in mind, Wolf. Now that we are the world's largest exporter of oil, we don't have oil dependency issues that will restrain us from taking appropriate action here. And I'm so pleased that we're in this position as a country. BLITZER: Should the U.S. halt arm sales to Saudi Arabia right now, at

least temporarily, until the investigations are all complete, as Germany, for example, has already done?

REED: Well, you know, I respect Germany's decision, but we do need to get further evidence. Obviously having relationships with Saudi Arabia is something in our strategic interest, but sanctions do need to be imposed. And when we talk about arm sales, we've got to be very sensitive to the fact that if they don't buy arms from us, who are they going to buy them from? And that is something that has to be taken into consideration?

[13:10:22] BLITZER: Well, do you think there's a moral consideration underway other than just the nuts and bolts of arms sales and potential revenue coming into the United States?

REED: Oh, absolutely. And that's why morally, and from diplomatic perspectives, there needs to be action by America. And I'm just so glad we're not restrained by the historic oil dependency relationship that we used to have. We now control our own destiny on our energy supplies. That also frees us to make additional sanctions put on the table that otherwise would not have been.

BLITZER: I want to move on to another issue, but very quickly, do you believe that Khashoggi was murdered inside the Saudi consulate and that the crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman, was fully aware of what was going on?

REED: I believe the murder did occur within that area. Now, who knew what when, that is something we do have to wait for the evidence. But, you know, my understanding of the Saudi Arabian relationships, it's very unlikely that the appropriate people didn't know about this situation.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the national security adviser to the president, John Bolton. As you know, he's in Moscow right now. He's discussing the president's stated intention to pull out of a 30-year old nuclear missile treaty with Russia. Russia says they'll work with the U.S. on the objections, but also reserve the right to respond. Do you believe potentially, congressman, this is the beginning of a new U.S./Russia arms race?

REED: Well, I don't know if it's an arms race, but all those who have indicated that this administration is buddy-buddy with Russia. Here's another example where the administration is putting American interest first and saying to Russia, if you're not going to abide by this agreement, we're not going to stand into this agreement and allow you to take advantage of it. And so I think what's being done here is exactly what needs to be done with Russia, is hold them accountable to the agreements that they agreed to. And, if not, we're going to walk away and make sure that we hold them accountable in the future.

BLITZER: All right, put on your hat as a member of the Ways and Means Committee, which writes tax cuts, tax increases, all of the -- all of that. The president, over the weekend, told reporters that Republicans are now working on a major middle class income tax break. It even says -- he goes so far as to say he hopes to have it in place by early November before the midterm elections on November 6th. As you know, the House of Representatives is not even in session. There's only 10 days until November. So when exactly are you planning to be back in Washington with the other 234 Republican members of Congress to vote on this proposed tax plan that the president has?

REED: Yes, what I anticipate is obviously a proposal coming out, working on tax reform 2.0 tax cuts 2.0 and targeting. And asking Democrats to join with us. We don't want to increase taxes.

BLITZER: Well, let me interrupt for a second. Will the president -- will the president release a formal middle class tax cut proposal before the midterm elections?

REED: We've been working on this for months now, Wolf. So I -- there, obviously, is a proposal out there to reduce taxes on individuals, as well as small business America. And we hope Democrats will join us, as they've indicated in their rhetoric, that they support that tax cut. Well, then let's join hands and get it done for the American people.

BLITZER: But has the White House told you it will be formally introduced, all the nuances, all the details, by the president, before the midterm elections? Because clearly you're not going to be able to pass anything for a while.

REED: Well, that's accurate. Obviously voting on a bill before the midterm elections in just 14, 15 days and getting it through the Senate and on to the president's desk, I don't see it -- that being on a likelihood. But a proposal is something that's coming forward and just stay tuned.

BLITZER: Congressman Reed, thanks so much for joining us.

REED: It's always a pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, take a look at this. We've got some live pictures coming in. A caravan of asylum seekers growing larger and heading north today. The president sending out a new warning, including a claim that the group includes, and I'm quoting the president right now, unknown middle easterners. We'll take you there live.

Plus, one mother says she sold everything, took her three children and joined the caravan. You're going to see her dramatic attempt hanging from a bridge.

And the Trump administration under fire right now for a plan that would reportedly roll back protections of transgender Americans. The reason and the backlash, that's coming up.

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[13:18:57] BLITZER: It's pretty astounding numbers, 7,500. That's how many people are now marching north as part of a migrant caravan through Mexico. It's formed -- it formed last week in Honduras, moved through Guatemala, and now in southern Mexico. The goal for many of these people is to make it to the U.S. border. Our international correspondent, Patrick Oppmann, is in Tapachula,

Mexico, near the Guatemalan border for us.

Patrick, it looks like you're walking with some folks in that caravan. They're on the move. So what's going on? What's the latest?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just in the last few minutes, Wolf, the caravan has begun to get on the move once again, heading north to the town, the next stop on this long, epic journey of Wesala (ph). It's only about 20 miles away. And that's because people have to walk. Previous caravans have been able to get in busses. They've been able to hitch hike. But there's so many people, as you said, more than 7,000, that it's just not possible.

The Mexican police have been shadowing us all along the way, but so far have not intervened. Are letting these people continue to stream north. And that may just be because there are so many people.

[13:20:00] Last night they slept on the ground in this town behind me, the town of Tapachula. They were given food here, some water. But these people really don't have much. Many have said that they've run out of water, they're exhausted, but they have so far to go. You see people carrying their belongings next to me here, the few things they have. You see people traveling with children, carrying children. Up the road I saw a man pushing a stroller. And you just think, you know, they've already come so far, some of them traveling more than a week, and they have weeks more to go before they reach the U.S.-Mexico border. But, Wolf, they say that is their destination.

BLITZER: Patrick, as you know, the president says unknown middle easterners have now mixed into this caravan. You speak Spanish. You've been talking to a lot of these folks. Have you seen any middle easterners amongst them?

OPPMANN: No. Well, just take a look over here, Wolf. I've been talking to people now for three days. I've been walking with them, traveling with them, seeing where they are sleeping at night. And the vast majority are Honduran migrants. I've not seen anybody who's not Central American. I've not seen anybody who has said that they just want to do anything but go and either reunite with family members, because a lot of these people have been deported previously from the United States, or they say that they're looking for economic opportunity.

But, again, the vast majority, I would say, 95 to 99 percent are Hondurans. And I have yet to seen anybody who is not a Central American. Certainly I've not seen anybody who's a middle easterner or appears to be going to the United States to cause trouble. To a person they all say that they're going because they want to have better economic opportunity.

And to see the faces of the people here, this is how we're traveling, walking along as cars go -- drive by. You see people carrying children. You people -- see people carrying their belongings and yet, Wolf, they have hundreds of miles still ahead of them.

BLITZER: Patrick Oppmann walking in this caravan, covering this story for us.

Patrick, thank you very much.

Let's discuss with our political anchor for Spectrum News and CNN political commentator Errol Louis, and CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp, the host of "S.E. Cupp Unfiltered."

This is the president's tweet, S.E. He says, sadly, it looks like Mexico's police and military are unable to stop the caravan heading to the southern border of the United States. Criminals and unknown middle easterners are mixed in. I have alerted Border Patrol and the military that this is a national emergy -- I guess he meant emergency -- emergy, must change laws.

What's your reaction to that?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's not even a dog whistle. This is fear mongering at its most naked. And what's unfortunate is, for Republicans and conservatives, there are policies, conversations, discussions, debates to be had about illegal immigration. There are problems that stem from illegal immigration that we should be talking about from sanctuary cities to a humanitarian crisis that could spill over on our border. We should be talking about it as a humanitarian crisis. And, instead, the president is choosing fear to just keep people afraid.

I don't like it when Democrats do that. I don't like it when Republican do that. Remember the point of politics is to solve problems. The president's not talking about solutions to a broken immigration system. He is just talking about fear. And fear doesn't beget solution. Fear just begets more fear.

BLITZER: Well, when the president says there's unknown middle easterners mixed in. That raises a lot of fear.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Yes. Well, it's fear and it's -- if you think about it for just half a minute, the fear is intended to sort of disconnect people from their own logic, right, their ability to sort of process something logically.

Logically, if you were a middle easterner who wanted to get into this country, you would take a regular tourist visa. You would fly here. And at the end of your two week stay you would just stay, right? There are a lot easier ways than walking hundreds of miles --

CUPP: Thousands. Thousands, yes.

LOUIS: Thousands of miles with -- with a full complement of press there to document every step of your tortuous journey. So, yes, it's kind of silly in a way.

This is also, though, I have to say, Wolf, this is part of the education of Donald Trump. The president of the United States, not just him, but any president, they issue commands, they lift the red hotline. They tell the military what to do. And what they find out over and over again is that by and large nothing happens. He does not have the powers, constitutionally, militarily, logistically to simply order 7,000 migrants to turn around and go home. He can't do that. It takes diplomacy, it takes foreign aid, it takes a policy, it takes a strategy, all of which is lacking if you really wanted to solve it. But, of course, we're two weeks out from a very important election. He's really, I think playing politics rather than actually trying to solve the case.

BLITZER: Yes, and he wants to cut off aid to these countries --

CUPP: I --

BLITZER: Which potentially could make matters worse --

CUPP: Yes.

BLITZER: If it's poor over there, then more people want to leave.

CUPP: I was just going to say, it's not just a lack of a strategy, it's a bad strategy. He's doubling down on a very bad strategy if we're concerned about thousands of illegal immigrants spilling into our borders. Well, maybe we should address the root cause of this problem in so far as we can. And that would include talking to leaders in Honduras and Guatemala and Central America and Mexico to try and come up with a solution that does not bring this problem to our borders in the first place instead of just telling people on Twitter to be afraid, be very afraid.

[13:25:19] BLITZER: Let me get your thought, Errol, before we take a commercial. We have a lot to discuss. This "New York Times" report saying there's now a proposal the Department of Health and Human Services, to come up with a new -- some new guidelines rolling back federal protections for people who identify as transgender, would define sex as solely male or female at birth and it could be presented to the Justice Department by the end of the year. The Human Rights Campaign, among other groups, fiercely pushing back. How do you see this playing out?

LOUIS: Yes. If there were any independent attorneys who handled this at the Department of Justice, they'll turn around and say, look, you can't do this because after somebody has transitioned, you're not going to come and find them 15 years later and say, we now invalidate everything that you did which was legal at every step of the way. We're not going to retroactively turn you back into something that you, the courts, your local post office and everyone else has acknowledged has already happened. So I think what they'll find, once again, it will be a case of part ideologues within the executive branch trying to accomplish what was their stated agenda and finding out it's not so easy.

BLITZER: What do you think, S.E.?

CUPP: There are plenty of people who do not believe the federal government should be in the business of giving its (INAUDIBLE) to transgender identity. That's a legitimate position to have. This just feels mean. The federal government has already done that. And so to take it away just feels like a politics of punishment instead of a politics of prudence.

BLITZER: Yes. All right, guys, stick around. There's a lot more we're working on.

They called each other everything from a liar to a sniffling coward, but, tonight, the president stumping for Senator Ted Cruz in Texas. We're going to discuss their rather complicated relationship.

Plus, a significant new sign that Robert Mueller is zeroing in on former Trump adviser Roger Stone. Specifically Stone's conflicting accounts about what he knew and when about WikiLeaks.

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