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Wolf

Trump Blamed McGahn for Probe; Trump Campaigns in Home Stretch; Trump Scolds Ryan; Trump's Tweet on Pittsburgh; Stone Beefs up Legal Team. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 31, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:06] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Thanks very much for joining us.

We start with new information on President Trump saying good-bye to his outgoing White House counsel with a complaint and blame for allowing Robert Mueller to run the special Russia investigation.

Here with us to discuss, former congressman and current political commentator Charlie Dent, and Gloria Borger is with us as well. And our chief political -- our chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

And, Kara Scannell, you've got to reporting for us. What have you and your team learned?

KATA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Well, so multiple sources have told us that during this final sort of good-bye meeting between Don McGahn and Donald Trump, that Donald Trump was grousing a lot about the Mueller investigation and he was in a -- you know, in a sense, kind of putting some blame on McGahn for it, since Mueller was put in place while McGahn was White House counsel.

And, you know, Trump was saying to him, he believed that this put -- cast a cloud over the presidency, this ongoing investigation. And he really seemed fixated on it, our sources tell us, you know, in what was otherwise a very positive outgoing meeting with McGahn, who just successfully got Kavanaugh through to the Supreme Court. So, you know, it was during this face-to-face meeting in the Oval Office that they really kind of, you know, had this final good-bye. But it seemed like a real sticking point for the president. It was still this lingering Mueller investigation.

BLITZER: So it's obviously such a sensitive topic for the president. He liked a lot of what his White House Counsel Don McGahn did, but he was clearly bitter about the fact that the Mueller investigation, the Russia probe, continues.

SCANNELL: That's right. I mean, and let's not forget, McGahn had been in with Mueller's team cooperating extensively with him for over 30 hours, over several days of interviews. You know, and the president was sort of surprised when reports surfaced about this several months ago. He didn't realize the extent of McGahn's cooperation. So it wouldn't be surprising that's also in his mindset as he's having this, you know, good-bye conversation and really kind of seeming fixated on Mueller.

BLITZER: All right, stand by.

You know, Gloria, sort of underscores how potentially nervous the president is about this whole Russia probe.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure.

BLITZER: He has no idea what Mueller really has.

BORGER: Right. And let me emphasize that McGahn and the president have not exactly been BFFs for a very, very long time. And don't forget that there were stories that the president actually asked McGahn to tell the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, to fire the special counsel. And I'm assuming McGahn did not do that, although he may have met with Sessions, I believe.

But so this relationship has been really fraught. He knows that McGahn was testifying. So they couldn't really talk to each other. McGahn kind of walled himself off from the -- anything to do with the Mueller investigation. And so, you know, the president and he have not been chatty, shall we say. Although, the president should be grateful for what McGahn did in terms of bringing him these Supreme Court justices to the bench.

BLITZER: Two of them.

You served in the United States Congress, a longtime Republican member of Congress. Are you surprised that at this final meeting the president would express this kind of outrage to his outgoing White House counsel, blaming him, in effect, for the continuing Robert Mueller investigation?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I'm not at all surprised that the president went after Don McGahn on that. The president seems to be obsessed with the investigation. The only reason why we have a Mueller special prosecutor is because the president fired James Comey and, as Gloria said, Don McGahn provided the country a great service when he refused or he declined to fire Robert Mueller at the president's request. So I'm not at all surprised the president's dumping on Don McGahn. I think that's probably part of the reason why he's leaving.

BLITZER: He's clearly still very, very bitter, the president.

DENT: Yes. Yes, bitter and apparently obsessed. Don McGahn had nothing to do with the appointment of the special prosecutor. That was the president's own doing.

BLITZER: But he wanted to cooperate with the independent -- the special counsel.

DENT: Yes. And I know Don McGahn. He's a completely honorable guy. I've worked with him. I've known him for 15 years. He's a good lawyer. And he will do what's right. I mean he is -- he's going to protect himself and his own reputation. He's not going to -- he's not going to do anything that would endanger himself. And I wouldn't either.

BLITZER: He's a highly respected Washington attorney.

BORGER: Well, yes, I think he is. I mean I think his specialty was more election law --

DENT: Right.

BORGER: When he went into the White House than anything else.

But, look, this tension has been there for quite some time. There was tension over the question of privilege, of whether McGahn would be able -- you know, should assert privilege or not asset privilege, and the White House said -- I believe, Kara, right, the White House said, no, not now, right? Not --

SCANNELL: Right. I mean essentially allowed him to cooperate with Mueller and answer any questions, which included also that conversation where Trump had frustrated -- you know, expressed frustration at McGahn and wanted him to fire Mueller. And McGahn said he wouldn't. And like that was the --

BORGER: Yes.

SCANNELL: You know, over the summer, right after Mueller's appointment. And so, you know, that's -- that's kind of, you know, the friction between them is that Trump is frustrated and McGahn was kind of blocking that frustration.

BORGER: And he doesn't know exactly what McGahn said.

BLITZER: Kara, great reporting. Thank you very much.

Guy, don't go too far away, there's more we need to discuss.

[13:05:00] Eleven rallies, eight states, with just six days to go until the midterm elections. President Trump sets out today on a frenzied final campaign swing ahead of Election Day on Tuesday. The central focus of his closing argument is his hardline stance on immigration. The president is clearly trying to rev up his political base. And he shows absolutely no signs of toning down the rhetoric, despite the tragedies and the tensions of the past week.

So where is the president going? And what does that say about the state of the current race?

Our political director, David Chalian, is with us over at the magic wall to talk about that a little bit.

First, let's take a look at, David, where he'll be complaining and what that tells us about the Republican strategy.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That's right, Wolf, the map here is the strategy for Donald Trump. Take a look at where he's going. In the next few days, Montana, Missouri, Indiana, West Virginia, Tennessee. Those states alone are states that Donald Trump won by double digits just two years ago in 2016. Where's he going? He's basically going to Trump country. And it's all about saving the United States Senate for Republicans. That's what is happening in these key states, it's about the battle for the Senate.

House races paying out in much more suburban districts where independents may be far more key, that is not where Donald Trump is welcome right now.

Also, take a look at some of the states he's doubling up on. Look here in Missouri. Claire McCaskill versus Josh Hawley. This is a critical contest. It is neck and neck, Wolf. There's no doubted about that. If indeed McCaskill loses in Missouri, assuming that Democrats may have already lost North Dakota, there's almost no path for Democrats to get the Senate majority without Claire McCaskill going back to the United States Senate.

Similar story in Indiana, again, were Donald Trump is going twice between now and Election Day, between Joe Donnelly, the Democrat incumbent, and Mike Braun. Again, another incumbent Democratic senator trying to get re-elected in Trump country. Barack Obama will also be in Indiana to help him out before the campaign is done, Wolf.

BLITZER: You know the president won't be campaigning, very interesting, in Nevada and Arizona, during this final push. Our Jeff Zeleny is reporting, David, that Republicans in those states have simply asked him to stay away. Tell us why that is and what are the new poll numbers from those two states show?

CHALIAN: So, like I just said, Trump country is where he's going. Well, Nevada is not Trump country. Hillary Clinton won Nevada in 2016. And Arizona, as you see here in our new poll, is actually right now edging towards the Democrat, 51 percent for Kyrsten Sinema, 47 percent for Martha McSally among likely voters. That is a closer margin, just four points, from where it was in September. But, still, within margin of error, but slightly tipping towards the Democrat.

Look in the Nevada poll numbers and you'll see a similar story. Jacky Rosen, the Democratic congresswoman there, 48 percent, just three points ahead of Heller. This is a real toss-up race. Total margin of error. Dean Heller, the most venerable incumbent Republican. He's the only incumbent Republican running for re-election in a state that Hillary Clinton won.

In both of these cases, the two best potential pickup opportunity for Democrats, Donald Trump, as you just noted, is not welcome in the closing days.

BLITZER: Yes, with six days to go, we'll be watching it obviously very, very closely.

David, thank you very much.

And look at this, only moments ago, the president of the United States tweeted this about the House Speaker Paul Ryan. Let me put the tweet up on the screen. I'll read it. Paul Ryan should be focusing on holding the majority rather than giving his opinions on birthright citizenship, something he knows nothing about! Our new Republican majority will work on this, closing the immigration loopholes and securing our border!

Well, that's a pretty strong statement, pretty extraordinary that the president would attack Paul Ryan the way he did.

BORGER: Ah, the outgoing speaker of the House, six days before the election. He can't help himself. He and Paul Ryan have had a very up and down again relationship I would say. You know more about that than I do, Charlie.

And -- but to say that Paul Ryan knows nothing about birthright citizenship, how does he know that? It seems to me the president's just been educated on birthright citizenship himself. But how does he know that Paul Ryan doesn't know? And, you know, it's just a ridiculous thing.

BLITZER: He says he doesn't know anything about birthright citizenship because yesterday Paul Ryan said, you know, you can't simply sign an executive order --

BORGER: Right. Exactly.

BLITZER: And eliminate the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution --

BORGER: So he doesn't know.

BLITZER: Which grants citizenship to kids who are born in the United States, you know, that's been around for, what, 150 years?

DENT: Yes. Well, Paul Ryan simply had to push back on this.

You know, when Barack Obama was president, when he would issue executive orders that we thought exceeded his authority, we yelled and screamed. And this is clearly a case where the president has exceeded his authority. This birthright citizen issue does require a constitutional amendment. Some might argue it would require a statute.

[13:10:03] But, either way, an executive order is completely out of bounds. And Paul Ryan would rather be talking about the economy and jobs and the president insists on raising these hot button cultural issues. So, completely unhelpful. So I'm glad the speaker yelled about it.

BLITZER: You know, he's really making -- six days before the election, a week yesterday, he's making a big issue out of this birthright citizenship issue --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: Saying, you know, I could just sign an executive order.

BORGER: Why not? BLITZER: I've been told by -- he doesn't say by whom, but by experts

that I could just sign an executive -- he tweeted this earlier this morning, I'll read it. So-called birthright citizenship, which costs our country billions of dollars and is very unfair to our citizens, will be ended one way or the other. It is not covered by the 14th Amendment because of the words subject to the jurisdiction thereof, many legal scholars agree, Harry Reid was right in 1993 before he and the Democrats went insane and started with the open borders, which brings massive crime stuff. Don't forgive the nasty term anchor babies. I will keep our country safe. This case will be settled by the United States Supreme Court.

BORGER: Well, there's a lot to unpack there. But, first of all, let me talk about Harry Reid, who did support it, then recanted, and called it, I believe, the worst mistake of his political career. So that is -- that is now off the table.

What the president is doing is throwing everything up against the wall and trying to say, this is all the stuff I'm going to do to you because immigration is his number one issue. And so, you know, that's what -- that's what this the about, Wolf. That's what the caravan is about. You know, that's what birthright citizenship is about. That's what sending 5,200 troops to the border who are not fighters but they're going to -- they're going to build fences, et cetera, et cetera. But it sounds like, you know, we're really beefing up the border. Sarah Sanders was asked, are you going to close the boarder? She said, well, we're looking at options.

So, it's just about all pre-election. Just like the, you know, just like the -- saying we're going to protect pre-existing conditions. Republicans are going to do that. We're going to give you a new tax cut. I mean the list goes on and on in five minutes.

BLITZER: It's about riling up the base.

DENT: It's 100 percent about enflaming the base, getting them riled up, getting them out to vote.

BORGER: Right.

DENT: And I don't think it's particularly helpful and it's, frankly, complicated the president's life in the aftermath of Pittsburgh, where, you know, the president, on the one hand, is trying to become -- he wants to unify the nation. He wants to, you know, console us on the one hand, while the other he's making these inflammatory statements. It's hard to unite and divide simultaneously. And this is a big problem for Republicans.

BLITZER: Six days to go.

All right, guys, thank you very much.

Meantime, there are new details emerging right now in the accused mail bomber. How long had he been planning his attacks and who else was on his hit list? We've got new information. Plus, mixed emotions in Pittsburgh right now. Why some officials refuse to greet the president on his trip. My guest was among them. I'll get his reaction to the president's new tweet focusing in on himself.

And a search for clues is underway after two sisters from Saudi Arabia are washed up on the shore of New York City's waterfront.

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[13:18:05] BLITZER: Another solemn day today in Pittsburgh as three more victims of the Tree of Life Synagogue massacre are being laid to rest. Members of the community joined a few hours ago to remember Joyce Fienberg. The 75-year-old was known as a caring person who lit up the room with her huge personality. She leaves behind two sons and six grandchildren.

This hour, Irving Younger is being remembered as a friend of all in the community. The former Squirrel Hill realtor was a greeter at the Tree of Life Synagogue. The 69-year-old was known by members of the community as having a big smile and a big handshake for anyone who came across.

And also this hour the funeral for 88-year-old Melvin Wax. He was known for being one of the first people through the doors every Saturday to worship at the Tree of Life Synagogue. Melvin Wax will be missed by all of the synagogue and in the community, as will all 11 victims of this massacre. May they rest in peace and may their memory be a blessing.

President Trump stirred up some controversy in the community by deciding to visit the Tree of Life Synagogue and the hospital where some of the victims remain. Local officials, including the mayor of Pittsburgh, had suggested the president delay the visit by a week or two. Those officials declined to greet the president when he was in Pittsburgh.

The president today tweeted about the trip, talking only about his treatment there, saying, and I'm quoting him now, Melania and I were treated very nicely. But there was no mention about the victims or the grieving community.

The Allegheny County Executive Rich Fitzgerald is joining us now from Pittsburgh.

Mr. Fitzgerald, thanks so much for joining us.

And our hearts go out to you, everyone in Pittsburgh right now.

You live right by, I understand, the Tree of Life Synagogue. You were one of the officials who declined to greet the president. What do you think of the president's tweet today about his warm reception, his treatment in Pittsburgh?

[13:20:00] RICH FITZGERALD, EXECUTIVE, ALLEGHENY COUNTY: Well, apparently, during the president's visit, it was appropriate in which what he did was just visit the site, the Tree of Life, and the memorials that are placed there, and then to visit a member of law enforcement at the hospital. The indication was going to be some sort of an event of some sort early on. It was portrayed differently.

In any event, we're still grieving. We're still going through the process. You just described what's going on today. There's a few more over the next coming days as well. Yesterday was a day of a couple of the funerals. So, you know, we're burying our dead, comforting our neighbors, and just trying to get through this.

BLITZER: How's the community doing?

FITZGERALD: Struggling. As you can imagine, it's a close-knit community. The great thing about the community is we all know each other. We all care for each other. We've got great relationships already. So it's very helpful to have people in the community that are reaching out and helping each other.

I was at the annual Zionists of American, Zion -- ZOA dinner last night, and it was a big crowd that was there. Probably a little bigger than normal. And, again, people were reaching out, hugging each other, holding each other, and just trying to give comfort to each other.

BLITZER: You're the Allegheny County executive. You represent more than a million people who live in your county. Did you ever anticipate a mass murder like this unfolding in the Squirrel Hill area of Pittsburgh?

FITZGERALD: No, I didn't. It really is unimaginable. And not only am I the county executive, but I live in this neighborhood and I've lived here for 35 years. It's where I raised my family. My wife and I love this community. It's a very rich and multi-cultural community with Christians and Jews and Muslims and Baptists and Hindus, non- believers, atheist, et cetera. So -- and it's always been that way. It's been a community where, you know, your ethnicity, you mix in. And, again, it's something that really is unimaginable, particularly in a place of worship like the Tree of Life.

BLITZER: Yes, it is unimaginable. And good luck to all the folks there. Our hearts go out to you. We're grieving together with you.

Mr. Fitzgerald, thanks so much for joining us.

FITZGERALD: Thank you.

And I will add that the level of support from around the country, and literally around the world, has been so wonderful for people to reach out to us. So we do want to thank everybody for that.

BLITZER: Yes. Well, it should -- people all over the world, I can assure you, they are grieving as well.

Thank you, once again.

Up next, we're going to have more on the breaking news. A harsh good-bye for the White House Counsel Don McGahn. CNN

exclusively learning that the president blamed him for the appointment of the Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

And as the special counsel circles Roger Stone, a long-time political adviser to the president, he beefs up his own legal team.

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[13:27:37] BLITZER: All right, this just into CNN. We've exclusively learned about a final rather tense meeting earlier this month between the former White House Counsel Don McGahn and President Trump. People familiar with the conversation tell us that during a face-to-face meeting in the Oval Office, the president was fixated on the special counsel investigation and groused McGahn about Robert Mueller being appointed during his watch. McGahn ended up leaving the White House even before the background investigation into his replacement was complete. Something that's not typically done. But we're also told McGahn was tired of the president and the president was just as tired of McGahn.

Let's bring in the former federal prosecutor, Kim Wehle, for more on this. Kim served as a former associate, independent counsel on the Whitewater investigation.

What's your reaction when you hear this report? McGahn was the White House counsel. Worked for the president a long time. Did some incredible work helping to get two Supreme Court justices confirmed by the U.S. Senate. But the president was clearly bitter.

KIM WEHLE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think that what he's speaking to is the fact that Robert Mueller, at this point, is the entity that could potentially hold this president accountable for this acts in office. This Republican-led Congress isn't really doing anything. The Justice Department obviously is within the president's chain of command. So really were two pivotal decisions. One was, Jeff Sessions' decision to recuse himself from this investigation of the Russian interference in the election, and the second was Rod Rosenstein's appointment of Robert Mueller. Absent those two, we wouldn't be in the situation where he could potentially just be flying completely above -- below or above the radar with zero accountability. And my understanding is, he sent McGahn in to talk Jeff Sessions out of a recusal and it didn't work. And here we have -- we are where we are, where Robert Mueller is moving along.

BLITZER: He's moving along. And he seems to be really focusing in on Roger Stone, a long-time Trump associate. Stone, in turn, is beefing up, we're told, his own -- his own legal team, adding a constitutional law expert, for example. This comes amidst reports that Steve Bannon, who was the chief political strategist for the president, has now been called back a third time to testify to answer questions about we believe Roger Stone with Mueller. Things are happening right now.

[13:29:51] WEHLE: Sure. I mean things have been a little quiet the last few weeks. Presumably it could be because of this non-binding DOJ guidance to not have a lot of action prior to an election. But Roger Stone, as far as we know, has not been interviewed or called to be interviewed by the special counsel, which suggests he could be a target, meaning a top person that they might