Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Greece to Present New Debt Plan; Iran Nuclear Deal Update; Marking 10th Anniversary of UK Terror Attacks; Bill Cosby Drug Admission; Pope Continues Latin America Tour
Aired July 07, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT, CNN INTERNATIONAL, LONDON: Tonight consternation in Brussels with banks close to collapse.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
A top Greek official denies these reports and tells me Greece will present a new plan tonight. We'll have the latest.
Then, so close, yet so far away. We'll find out if Iran and world powers are any closer to a nuclear deal as the deadline comes and goes in Vienna.
And 10 years after coordinated terrorist attacks ripped through London, the city stands still to remember the victims of 7/7.
Plus, this evening, Bill Cosby admits to a shocking plan to give drugs to women he wanted to have sex with. We'll look at the potential legal
fallout of this bombshell.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Hello, everyone, I'm Hala Gorani. We're live at CNN London and this is The World Right Now.
Happening this hour, high-stakes negotiations that could determine the future of Greece. This after a war of words in Brussels over the Greek
government's failure to present any new proposals. EU leaders are at the bargaining table as we speak.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
You can see Angela Merkel there and other EU leaders. There's the Prime Minister of Greece, Alexis Tsipras. And the Greek government says it will
propose a quote interim solution that aims to keep the country afloat until mid-July. Earlier European finance ministers were left angry and
frustrated. They had called for Greece to bring fresh, concrete proposals to the table after Greeks rejected the terms of a previous bailout in
Sunday's referendum.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Now Greek officials says they set -- the set of proposals they presented last week remains on the table with some improvements. Let's get straight
to our Richard Quest. He's standing by for us in Athens at this hour. So let's talk a little bit about exactly what Tsipras is bringing to the table
in Brussels.
RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT, CNN INTERNATIONAL, NEW YORK: We don't really know, but we think it's a sort of version of the last-known
deal, sort of just over 10 days ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
If it is that version, with the Greeks adding some extras to it on pensions, fiscal limits and the like, it won't be good enough. It's quite
simple as that. The economy has got worse and they, they, they need to have more commitment from what they were previously prepared to do, so-
called conditionality.
In addition to which, there is this new short-term funding arrangement, and that's basically to get the Greek government over the loans that have to be
repaid to the ECB, several billion Euros worth, by -- on July the 20th. So we have a very hard, fast deadline.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
July the 20th the Greek government has to repay money to the ECB, otherwise --well, I mean you're not just talking default here. This is nuclear
default if they don't repay the ECB. So, Hala, the, the proposals are not, are not what the other Eurozone members would have wanted, however much the
dress it up.
GORANI: OK, let's talk a little bit about possible scenarios going forward here for Greece. Because the no vote.
QUEST: Right.
GORANI: .essentially Greek citizens are rejecting the previous bailout deal. They want something else. Now what?
QUEST: Let's look at the various scenarios that could actually happen as a result of all of this. And really they come down to three. The first, of
course, is a straightforward one, and it is that Greece does reach a deal with the Eurozone partners. In the event that that happens, and it has to
happen sooner rather than later -- there can be no messing around -- if that happens, Hala, then it really, you know, Greece is in for a long, hard
slog ahead. More conditionality, more austerity, tough times, but at least they will get the money. And we move on to the second option, and you
start to see the more difficult areas for Greece as it plows (INAUDIBLE). And that way there's no deal with the Eurozone. No deal means no money.
No money means bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means out of the Eurozone. So no deal with the Eurozone means Greece is out.
And then finally, there is some half-hearted measure, some sort of classic Euro fudge where it's neither one thing nor the other, both parties claim
they got something out of it, more talks in the future. I don't think this is a runner, I just don't any more. Hala, I, I, I really don't. I think
that if they -- the Eurozone, the Euro Group is too frustrated to go down this road, the banks won't go with, the debt is too great, the economy is
in too much trouble.
GORANI: All right. We'll see what happens because a top Greek official, Richard, I spoke to just a few hours ago assured me that there was a
concrete proposal by Tsipras to European leaders. Richard Quest, we'll see you at the top of the hour on Quest Means Business.
Kostas Isihos is the Greek Deputy Defense Minister. He denied that Greece is without a proposal. In fact, he told me that Prime Minister Tsipras
would present Greece's new plan at tonight's European Leaders meeting. Listen to our conversation.
KOSTAS ISIHOS, DEPUTY DEFENSE MINISTER, GREECE: We do have a proposal and we are protecting in that proposal, and we respecting our vote, our
referendum, and also our obligations. So within that context, I just hope that by the end of the day today we will have a positive result.
GORANI: The Maltese Prime Minister, and this is why I think there's some confusion, tweeted "the absence of a concrete proposal by Greece is not
helpful." Do you know what he was referring to in this case?
ISIHOS: Well, I know that we have a very concrete proposal for tax reform, we have a very concrete proposal on combating corruption, with number on
that, with figures. We have a very concrete proposal on the restructuring of the debt, and putting and end to austerity and to returning back to
economic growth. So you cannot be more concrete than that.
GORANI: And, Minister, you are probably being asked more and more and in a more and more pressing way by your fellow citizens when will these banks
open? When will Greek banks be able to open? Right now they are not getting any liquidity injected into them. How long with this last?
ISIHOS: Well, we do hope that within the next hours, I hope even tomorrow, the ECB will start a cash flow to our banks after we have reached a, a, a
deal with our European partners and our presentation has been accepted. I do hope that this blackmail does not continue any more. The more you
blackmail the Greek people, the more resolute they are. These are not guinea pigs. These are people. They're not digits, they're not numbers.
They're people with problems and they know how to solve their problems. They know what the solution is.
GORANI: But can you give a timeline? This is -- I mean this is all well and good but, you know, I don't think Greek people have more than a few
days left without being able to access their cash before this becomes a truly crisis that is -- that might get -- further get out of control. So
can you put a timeline on when banks will open?
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ISIHOS: Well, it, it, it is a timeline. There is a limit, of course, of human endurance. But it's not a question and a dilemma where we're put to
the wall and that you just want to blind our eyes before we're shot. It's not that kind of a question. And, unfortunately, some of the European
leaders, especially the German Euro political leaders are still continuing and continuing on that, on that political line.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Which is completely wrong, was proven wrong in the referendum, and it will be proven wrong in the next days and weeks to come.
GORANI: But you've made that point.
ISIHOS: This country knows how to survive. The people know how to survive.
GORANI: When will banks reopen? Will it be this week?
ISIHOS: Well, when the -- when the banks will reopen when we have a deal, and I hope we do have a deal tonight or tomorrow, and the (ECgo) (ph) ECB
will start flowing the cash necessary for the banks to open. We have not received any cash flow from the ECB in the last five months. We have paid
our debts, seven and a half billion Euros, and we're out of money. Everybody knows that. Now there is a limit to our patience too. It's not
the creditors who have impatience, we also have impatience for reaching a deal.
GORANI: So it is --
ISIHOS: .for reaching a solution.
GORANI: I get that.
ISIHOS: A viable solution.
GORANI: Is it the expectation of your government that a deal will be reached between Greece and its creditors in the next few days, as in this
week?
ISIHOS: Yes.
GORANI: Yes?
ISIHOS: I hope so. I do believe that logic prevails. I do believe it and I do hope that Europe does not commit political suicide.
GORANI: There you have it. I hope Europe does not commit political suicide, the Deputy Defense Minister in Greece.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
We'll have a lot more on this important story ahead this hour, including a look at how the country's debt crisis is hitting small businesses in that
country. We'll tell you why some entrepreneurs are calling it a catastrophe.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
And later, Harvard professor and former IMF Chief Economist, Ken Rogoff, his views on the situation in Greece and how he thinks other troubled
European economies should respond. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
Negotiators -- another kind of negotiating is going on. Negotiators at the Iran nuclear talks in Vienna are extending a self-imposed deadline again.
It was meant to be tonight, midnight, seventh of July. The U.S. State Department say Friday is the new target for reaching a deal that would curb
Iran's nuclear program in exchange for relief from these crippling sanctions. That's what Iran wants. We're learning more today about what
exactly is holding things up. Russia is confirming reports that a U.N. arms embargo on Iran is a major sticking point, while France says even more
obstacles remain on the table. Listen.
LAURENT FABIUS, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We are insisting especially on necessary limitations on nuclear research and
development, sanctions and their reestablishment, and the possible military dimension of past Iranian nuclear work.
GORANI: Let's get the very latest now from Vienna where Atika Shubert joins us live. So three more days. Will a deal be done this week? Is
that the expectation?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CORRESPONDENT, CNN, LONDON: Well, that's certainly the hope, and what's happening now is that foreign ministers are returning to
their respective capitals.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
They'll be returning Wednesday evening and then, frankly, the pressure is on to make some very tough but quick decisions. Now we heard earlier from
Britain's Foreign Minister, Philip Hammond. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITISH SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS: Well, as you know, this is hard work. We're still at it. We've
reached a point in the discussions where is now a piece of drafting work for officials to do.
SHUBERT: So the good news there is that a text is being drafted.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
But there really -- it's really about nailing down the specific wording. Most of the general issues have been resolved. Although, as we hear,
there're still some outstanding issues like that conventional arms embargo, which was sort of a late minute stumbling block. But the fact that they
are drafting a text is good news, Hala.
GORANI: All right. We'll keep in touch. Thank very much, Atika is in Vienna. A lot more to come tonight.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Remembering the dead. Memorials take place right here in London.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
Ten years after the 7/7 attacks.
Also ahead, this teenage girl was attacked with acid just for trying to get an education. She speaks out about her terrifying ordeal. We will be
right back.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Ten years ago today London was in turmoil. Four suicide bombers blew themselves up on the transport network. They killed 52 people and
injured hundreds. Today the city paused to remember those who died that day. Erin McLaughlin has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ERIN McLAUGHLIN, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN, LONDON: A day of remembrance for the city of London. A decade ago four bombs struck at the
heart of the capital's transport system.
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It's a day when we recall the incredible resolve and resolution of Londoners and the United Kingdom, but
above all it's a day when we think of the grace and the dignity of the victims' families, for all they've been through.
McLAUGHLIN: At St. Paul's Cathedral in the heart of the city, royalty and rescue workers gathered side by side.
DAVID ISON, DEAN OF ST. PAUL'S CATHEDRAL, LONDON: We are gathered here in this cathedral church as representatives of this city and of this nation,
together with friends from around the world, to recall a moment in time when lives were destroyed and the world was changed.
McLAUGHLIN: The theme of the service, unity. Londoners of all backgrounds and creeds standing together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As representatives of the nation's faith communities, we stand united in our determination to resist and overcome the evil of
terrorism.
McLAUGHLIN: The names of the 52 victims were read out and across the country people marked a minute's silence.
McLAUGHLIN: In Hyde Park Prince William met survivors and families of the victims. (Esther Hyman) (ph) lost her sister Miriam when the number 30 bus
blew up in Tavistock Square.
(ESTHER HYMAN) (ph): We need to replace narratives of hatred, division, and anger with narratives of peace, unity, empathy, resilience, love,
tolerance, all of those things. We do -- we need a revolution. My call to action.
McLAUGHLIN: Her testimony proved that out of a profound tragedy can come a message of hope. Erin McLaughlin, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: Three teenage girls in Afghanistan are struggling with some horrific injuries in the wake of a random acid attack. We shouldn't call
it random, actually. It was aimed at them. The young women were on their way to school when they were targeted. Now one of the victims is speaking
out about her terrifying moment and also, unfortunately, quite an uncertain future for her. Here's Michael Holmes>
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MICHAEL HOLMES, ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT, CNN INTERNATIONAL, ATLANTA: It should have been an ordinary Saturday morning. But for a young Afghan
girl, her sister and a friend, it was anything but. The three girls, whose names are being withheld for their own safety, were headed to school in
West Herat City in Afghanistan, the same route they have taken for years, when a man on a motorcycle attacked them with acid.
AFGHAN SCHOOLGIRL (through translator): When the men threw the acid on us, I thought it was water, but seconds later my eyes started burning and my
younger sister who was a couple meters away from me had gotten acid on her hands and legs. She started screaming first. For a moment I thought I was
seeing a nightmare and I was thinking that why nobody shaking me to wake up. But when people started running towards us and tried to wash our faces
with water I understood that it was real.
HOLMES: She said the attackers told them it was their punishment for going to school and compared the attack to the attack on Malala Yousafzai in
2012.
AFGHAN SCHOOLGIRL (through translator): Malala Yousafzai was also a school girl when she was attacked. I am also a school girl. I also want support.
I know my future looks blurry. I don't think I can continue my higher education. I was planning to take the university entrance exam this year,
but I don't think I can do it now. I am really afraid.
HOLMES: Unfortunately, acid attacks on women are not uncommon in South Asia, Africa, and South America. They rarely kill, but cause severe
disfigurement and, of course, psychological trauma.
AFGHAN SCHOOLGIRL (through translator): I am totally shocked. Every day my parents take us to the hospital to change my eyes bandages. I know I
can't see anything at the moment, but soon as I hear the sound of a motorbike on the street I start shivering. I grab my parent's hand and I
feel like someone is pouring more acid on me. Mental impact of the incident has been more serious on me compared to the physical one.
HOLMES: For this girl, the road to recovery is a long one. Michael Holmes, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: More to come. Lessons on negotiating from an ancient city in Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
We'll see how time-tested skills could help the talks currently underway in Vienna.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The United States says talks on Iran's nuclear program are worth extending because they've "never been closer" to reaching a final
agreement.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
Negotiators meeting in Vienna have moved the latest deadline to Friday. The self-imposed deadline was for today previously. They say they are
making progress but differences do remain over the toughest issues. Iran wants some sanctions lifted in exchange for restrictions on its nuclear
program.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Our next guest says the West has become dependent on the sanctions and doesn't really want to remove them. Mohammad Marandi is a Professor of
North American Studies at Tehran University, and he is currently joining us from Vienna. Sir, thanks for being with us. What do you mean by the West
having become dependent on the sanctions?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI, PROFESSOR OF NORTH AMERICAN STUDIES, TEHRAN UNIVERSITY, IRAN: Well, Hala, I think this is a serious problem in that Americans are
looking at -- they, they've become emotionally attached to the sanctions.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
They, they don't want to relinquish them. They think that they will serve some sort of purpose down the road. But ultimately, if they want to deal
with Iran, if they want Iran to be flexible and to slow down elements of the -- of its nuclear program, then the Americans are going to have to give
in with regard to the sanctions. Americans simply can't have their cake and eat it too.
GORANI: Right. So you're saying that there is an emotional attachment to the sanctions. But at this state would you agree that so much has been
invested in time and political capital into this process that both sides truly want an outcome this week? Would you agree with that?
MARANDI: Yes, I think both sides definitely want an agreement. The Iranians over the past two or three years they've shown a great deal of
flexibility. The Americans have invested a lot. Obama needs a legacy. The rise of China. The economic crisis in Europe. The Ukraine. And most
importantly, the collapse of many -- much of the Middle East, thanks to misguided policies and the rise of extremism which is funded by regimes
like Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism, and so on. This has created the situation where the Americans too very much need a deal with Iran. So both sides
want a deal, but I think, at least from the Iranian perspective, the Iranians feel that they've done a lot more than the Americans, and that the
Americans now need to take a strong step to solve this.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: Well, the U.S. and the other Western partners negotiating here would say, ell, hang on a second. We need to be able to verify that you
are suspending elements of your nuclear program in the way that you're promising to do. That has been a sticking point. Now there is the request
to lift the U.N. arms embargo, which is something complicating matters. So from the U.S.'s and the Western powers' perspective, they're also asked to
give up quite a bit here, no?
MARANDI: That's true. But at the end of the day, if, if there is to be a deal, especially with the mistrust that existed -- that exists between the
two sides-- remember, for Iran the U.S. helped bring about a coup in the country before the revolution, they supported the Shah, the helped Saddam.
So the Iranians have, you know, they don't have a lot of trust. And the Iranians are saying that we are willing to take strong steps forward, but
the Americans have to do the same simultaneously. The Iranians are saying what if we carry out, we reconfigure parts of our nuclear program, or we
move elemental part of the Arak reactor, which would be very costly and reversing these would be time consuming, and then the Americans don't do
their side of the bargain. So the Iranians are saying parts of the deal have to be carried out simultaneously so that Iran, you know, Iran doesn't
do something and doesn't get something -- and then it's not left without anything from the American side.
GORANI: Well, American negotiators are saying, if you verifiably implement this deal, then we will push for sanctions to be lifted, not before we can
verify that you've essentially stuck to your side of the bargain. Is that something Iran is willing to agree to, do you think, in the coming days?
MARANDI: Well, you know, what the Iranians have been saying for years is that often what the Americans are looking for is to prove a negative. And
proving a negative is literally impossible. You cannot -- no one can verify that they, you know, don't --no country can verify that they don't
have a weapons program. Because you'd have to search every country meter by meter, inch by inch, to prove whether that's the case or not. The
Iranians are saying we are willing to be open, to give access to sites within a framework that does not endanger the country's national security.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
But, on the other hand, the Americans have to do something in return. It, it's not reasonable to ask Iran to take major steps and the Americans wait
for the Iranians to finish. Because the Iranians are saying, well, what if we do these -- carry out these actions and the Americans don't commit
themselves to their side of the bargain?
GORANI: And, very briefly, do you think deal this week? Is this your expectation?
(END VIDEO TAPE)
MARANDI: I think it's -- I really think it's, it's very difficult to say at this stage. There is a lot of mistrust, but the world needs a deal.
The rise of Al-Qaeda in Syria and across the region, the rise of ISIL and, unfortunately, countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Batal (ph), supporting
many of these extremist groups really is an incentive that should bring major powers, regional and global powers, together to find a solution.
And I think that if there is a solution here, that could be a first step to greater cooperation to deal with the major problems that the world is
facing today, meaning extremism and terrorism.
GORANI: All right. Well, the world is watching and certainly there are other issues there that need to be discussed. Mohammed Marandi of Tehran
University, he's in Vienna, thanks very much for joining us, sir, on the program this evening.
MARANDI: Thank you.
GORANI: Not only are there tough issues on the table, but Iran and the West are trying to work through decades mistrust, as we just heard there
from our guest.
Our Frederik Pleitgen visited an ancient town in Iran where people are well known for their media -- mediating skills.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN, LONDON: With its ancient mud brick houses right at the foot of the Karkas Mountains, the
village Abyaneh is unique, even by Iranian standards, with the country's wealth of diverse cultures. The folks here like to take things slowly.
They might even appear somewhat frail at first sight but, make no mistake, they know and follow international politics.
ABYANEH WOMAN (through translator): We like the American people, we like Obama, but we don't like Congress says 74-year-old (Hanni Amiri) (ph) and
her 80-year-old friend (Patame Jamal) adds, we've heard that Obama said the military option is on the table, but we're not afraid of that. Abyaneh is
one of the oldest places in Iran. The city council says it dates back almost 4,000 years. Its people still wear a traditional colorful dress.
(VIDEO)
We were allowed to film a Koran lesson for women and girls inside the oldest and biggest mosque in town. But the people here weren't always
Muslims. This mosque is about 1,000 years old and, even before it became a mosque, it was a Zoroastrian temple. Zoroastrianism is the ancient
religion of Persia, and Zoroastrian is still the language that people speak here today. And they believe their traditional mind set has made them
great negotiators, well known as conflict mediators in this part of Iran.
Reza Alresai, the head of the village council tells me he believes, as the U.S. and Iran try to improve their relations, they could learn a thing or
two from Abyaneh.
REZA ALI RESAI (through translator): The people of Abyaneh always talk to each other in councils, he says, and the output and the thoughts of the
council were always stronger than any one man's thoughts. And this is what creates civilizations. And the ancient civilization of Abyaneh in central
Iran is one that, despite its old and traditional ways, remains strong and vibrant and at ease with the world. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Abyaneh, Iran.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: Next a return to the Greek debt crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) Small businesses are suffering, especially since Greeks don't have any more cash to do things like eating out.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. Here's a look at your top stories. And we start with Greece. European leaders are holding those talks at this hour, high-
level important talks. Trying to find some common ground with crisis-bound Greece.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
The Greek government says it will propose an interim solution that will aim to keep the country afloat until the end of July.
No deal yet on Iran's nuclear program today, but negotiators are now reportedly drafting the text of an agreement, even though a few tough
obstacles remain. Talks in Vienna have been extended until Friday, that's three more days. The deal would ease sanctions on Iran in exchange for
curbs on its nuclear program.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Well, here in London, it has been a day of somber reflection as the city stopped to remember those who were killed in the 7/7 bombings 10 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
Fifty-two people were killed, hundreds more were injured when four suicide bombers blew themselves up on the transport network.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
Also this hour we're learning there's been a major theft at a military base in the south of France.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
A large number of explosives, detonators, and grenades have been stolen from an army base in the town of Miramas near Marseille. The theft came
despite heightened security in France in the wake of recent attacks.
Well banks are closed and soon the cash machines will run out of, well, cash. It makes sense that restaurants in Athens can't even get customers
to check out menus, let alone sit down for a meal. Phil Black met one restaurant owner struggling to keep her doors open.
PHIL BLACK, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN, LONDON: This a quiet day in the kitchen of the Diazemos) (ph) taverna. Lately there have been too many
quiet days. (Marina Korenyatis) (ph) runs the place, like her father before her. The plan has always been for her son to take over. But now
nothing in this family's future is certain. It's not hard to see why. A beautiful location, fresh seafood, and so many empty tables.
(MARINA KORENYATIS) (ph) (through translator): What happened with the banks is a catastrophe for us, Maria (ph) tells me. With banks closed and
ATM withdrawals limited to just 60 Euros a day, eating out is suddenly an indulgence few can afford. Business is down 40 to 50 percent, she says,
but our morale is down 100 percent because we don't know what tomorrow with bring.
BLACK: Maria (ph) says those who do come to eat now are ordering much less. Some customers still pay cash, but not enough to meet overhead.
She's getting by, making IOU arrangements with suppliers. Maria (ph) knows it can't last. Everything rests on the Greek government reaching a quick
deal with its creditors.
She says if Greece leaves the Euro, it will be the last straw for her 46- year-old business. But a deal, if it comes, will be too late for many others like clothes designer, Lena Gaidatzi. She's packing up and shutting
down after 14 years in this workshop.
LENA GAIDATZI: It's very hard, but I will do it. I decided to do it.
BLACK: And what will you do now?
GAIDATZI: Maybe I'll go to another country that's more civilized and more fair for people who work hard.
BLACK: Lena agrees with Greece's creditors. It's too hard to run a business here. To prove her point, she shows me her neighborhood.
GAIDATZI: Come on, come on.
BLACK: And the many shops now standing empty, unlikely to open again any time soon.
GAIDATZI: It is very sad because all these shops represent people.
BLACK: People who run small businesses here know through hard experience a new bailout won't guarantee Greece's economic recovery. But without a
quick deal, they fear many more will lose livelihoods, savings, everything they've struggled to build. Phil Black, CNN, Athens.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: Let's get more on this crisis. Ken Rogoff joins me now from New York. He's a Professor of Economics at Harvard University and the former
Chief Economist for the IMF. Thanks very much for joining us.
KEN ROGOFF, THOMAS D. CABOT PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AND PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: My pleasure.
GORANI: What, what do you think the future holds for Greece here? They're back at the negotiating table after the country overwhelmingly rejected the
previous bailout terms. What's next, do you think?
ROGOFF: Well, I think Greece is really at sea at the moment. They face a very tough situation inside the Euro, they face a tough situation leaving
the Euro.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
It's a very difficult time and it's, of course, coming very suddenly. I think the most likely thing is that they will end up staying technically in
Euro, but having capital controls so there's a soft Euro inside Greece that's worth less than a real Euro outside Greece.
GORANI: And this isn't something the Eurozone or the common currency architects ever planned for.
ROGOFF: No, they certainly didn't. They did not plan for an exit strategy but, on the other hand, they've been going at this for five years. They've
poured a lot of money into Greece, contrary to a lot of impressions people have. Foreign official aid and foreign loans has been much more than
Greece has paid out over the crisis period. But Greece hasn't modernized their economy. You heard that woman, you know, saying it's not fair. It's
certainly corrupt in many ways. I think what Europe wants is to see a modern European state in Greece, to see movement towards that. And I think
if they saw that, they would bend. But the problems are really still profound for Greece.
GORANI: But can you blame voters? I mean certainly when you look at the economic situation in the country -- and I'm just going to remind our
viewers. I'm sure you know these numbers of course very well. GDP, for instance, gross domestic product, shrunk by 25 percent since 2010, since
the first bailout deal. Unemployment among the young is 60 percent, the under 25s. So, I mean, why would they want to sign up, ordinary voters,
for more of the same?
ROGOFF: Well, the thing is it's not clear that they're signing up for less of the same. They voted for less austerity, but who's going to pay for it?
They have not been paying out these loans. Germany and France want to get paid in the future. I don't think they will. I think they should write it
down. But that's not been the problem to date. The problem to date is that they were spending vastly more than their income and then they
couldn't. The world markets cut them up. Actually the Germans and the French, the IMF, not only helped them repay loans, write down loans, they
gave they money to cushion the cuts in government spending. But there were no reforms.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
I think it was a very difficult situation Greece was in any direction. There were ways it could have been done better on both sides. But at this
stage, stopping an exit's going to be hard.
GORANI: So you think that it is possible that Eurozone leaders -- I mean were Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande of France, the two countries that
are the engine really of the Eurozone -- that they would make a decision to cut Greece off of this political project. It would be a terrible admission
of defeat, though, would it for them?
ROGOFF: Well you -- you know, as we say here, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. They offered it a pretty generous
package for the rest of this year that would have amounted to five percent of their national income in transfers.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
The Greek people -- and they would have had bank support. They would have the banks being closed. They would have confronted a problem eventually
'cause the debts can't get repaid. But they voted no to that that. I think they would have been willing to keep that going for a long time, but
they wanted to see some movement in Greece towards being like the mainstream states of Europe. Instead, they have this very left wing
government that seems to look at Cuba, Venezuela and others when they're thinking about where they want the country headed.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: Well, their predecessor weren't as to the left as this government is, and critics of the Eurozone, of the creditors of the Troika, including
of course you have Krugman, Stiglitz, I mean very high profile economists, who are either saying that this was an effort to regime change the current
government in Greece, or that not enough money was given to the government to boost the economy, but money was earmarked quite easily to pay off
private bank debt in order to save the banking system, rather than help ordinary Greek people. Don't you think there is a bit of responsibility on
the creditors' side here?
ROGOFF: Well, for sure. The creditors and the French and German banks put money into Greece, let them borrow far beyond their means, and they should
not have been protected. That should have been written down. But I think, when Krugman and Stiglitz say that the Germans have been forcing the Greeks
to cut government spending, that's not true. That they've been giving the money so they would cut government spending less than they would otherwise.
You know, at some point they have to have, you know, some deal to have continued aid. I think Greece will get a lot of aid, but the question is
does it stay inside the Euro or outside the Euro or, as I've suggested, in this sort of half-way land of capital controls.
GORANI: All right. Ken Rogoff, pleasure. Thanks so much for joining us on CNN. We appreciate your time this evening.
ROGOFF: Thank you.
GORANI: A lot more to come on CNN. Another bombshell involving comedian Bill Cosby. We'll explain.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
And the Pope is a popular man in Ecuador. A massive crowd came out to see him celebrate mass in Quito. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: An African-American network called Bounce TV says it will stop broadcasting reruns of The Cosby Show, effective immediately. The move
follows the release of damaging new documents from a civil lawsuit from long ago that was filed by a woman who accused Bill Cosby of sexual
assault. It was a sworn deposition by Cosby from 2005. In it the comedian said he acquired seven prescriptions for sedatives which he intended to
give to young women he wanted to have sex with. But Cosby never admitted to actually drugging any of his accusers, just acquiring the medication.
The documents were obtained by the Associated Press and today Cosby's publicist said the star had no comment.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson joins me now live from New York to break down these latest revelations. Joey, thanks
for being with us. So, just so our viewers are clear, in this deposition from 2005 as part of a civil suit, Cosby admitted in testimony that he
obtained the drugs with the intent of giving them to women to have sex, correct? So what impact will that have on any current litigation?
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, NEW YORK: Sure, Hala, good afternoon to you. Major admission here, of course, and of course when they
got to the second question in that deposition, you know, which is a discovery device.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
When you're in a lawsuit you get to sit down and speak to the party you're suing. And of course the attorney asked the following question next, which
is did you give these drugs without consent. There was an objection, so we never got to hear that part.
But the problem here, Hala, is the statute of limitations. When you have cases, whether it's a civil case where you're suing for money, or there's a
criminal case where you're prosecuting someone, there's a certain period of time that you have in order to move forward. And so to the extent that the
statute of limitations by and large for a number of women who have accused Cosby has ended, the net effect of this is not so much that it'll assist in
a civil case or a criminal prosecution because those statute of limitations are over.
I should though mention, Hala, that there's also the issue of defamation, and that is some of the accusers are saying, well, you defamed me because
you called me a liar. The issue with that is really two-fold. One is, did Cosby himself do it or did he do it through counsel, in which case it's
difficult 'cause us lawyers say things all the time to protect clients.
And then the second issue would be damages. Of course defamation protects the reputation of someone and, to the extent that the public is really
believing these accusers now, the issue will be, well, are -- is your reputation really damaged? We believe you now.
GORANI: But now Gloria Allred, the celebrity attorney, she's representing six, 17, I believe Cosby accusers. She says today she hopes she can use
some of the information from that 2005 deposition, namely that he admitted to acquiring medication, including Quaaludes, in current litigation. Can
she do that?
JACKSON: Well, here's the issue. Whenever you have a current lawsuit and the matter moves forward, the issue becomes you use prior bad acts by the
person you're going after. In the event that you make an admission that you've done this to several women, is that something that could come in to
the current litigation? The answer to that question is yes. To the extent that you've engaged in similar conduct that could be relevant here, it
comes in to show a motive, an intent, a commonality of a plan.
But the issue then also becomes, Hala, is the claim viable? That means any lawsuit that's against Cosby now, does it have teeth, will it succeed? And
if it's based upon sexual assault to the extent that there's a statute of limitations, it very may well not because the statute of limitations is
gone. If it's based on the issue of defamation and he said -- if you can get the tape where Cosby said "you're a liar," then it raises it to another
level because it's him saying it. But if it were an attorney that said it on his behalf, it becomes more problematic and of course you get to the
issue of damages too.
(END VIDEO TAPE_
GORANI: Just clear this up for me. Statute of limitation apply to criminal cases but also to civil cases in this particular instance with
Cosby?
JACKSON: Yes.
GORANI: Is that what you're saying? Yes.
JACKSON: Yes, exactly. What happens, Hala, is that you have a number of accusers and a number of jurisdictions. And every jurisdiction in the
United States, 50 states, you could have a different statute of limitations and in fact there's a pending lawsuit in Massachusetts, there's a pending
lawsuit in California. There's a variety of instances where you have accusers throughout the country. And in each state because they're, you
know, they're sovereign, they're independent, they have a governor and a legislature, they make their own rules and their own laws. So statute of
limitations applies to civil claims, when people sue for money, and it applies to criminal prosecutions where people go after you and say you're
guilty of a crime. And if those statutes of limitations are over, then you have no basis to move forward, and that really is the problem here.
GORANI: OK, we'll see in fact what happens with some of those pending cases and how this revelation might impact them. Joey Jackson, thanks very
much. We appreciate you -- your time on CNN this evening.
And a quick programming note for you by the way, later today CNN will bring you Hillary Clinton's first nationally televised interview since she
entered the American presidential race three months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
Our senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar will sit down with the Democratic frontrunner in the state that will prove her first test, Iowa.
That exclusive interview airs at 10:00 pm in London, 11:00 pm Central European time.
Coming up, celebrating mass in front of this huge audience. Pope Francis continues to pull in the crowd on his South American tour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: Pope Francis is in South America and crowds are flocking to see him. All you have to do is look at these pictures from a mass in Quito,
Ecuador. Guess how many people that is? A million expected to attend. The Pontiff also visits Paraguay and Bolivia during his trip. Pope
Francis, of course, is Argentinian, so he has many friends when he visits South America. One of them is Father Hernan Paredes, a long-time friend
and fellow Jesuit. CNN's Rosa Flores speaks to the man who still calls the Pope Jorge.
REV. HERNAN PAREDES, SOCIETY OF JESUS, NEW YORK (reading in Spanish): "Querido Hernan, muchas gracias por tu carta."
ROSA FLORES, CORRESPONDENT AND SUBSTITUTE ANCHOR, CNN, NEW YOKR: A personalized message from a dear friend is always a good gesture>
PAREDES (translating): "I ask you to keep praying for me and my God -- may Jesus and the Blessed Mother take care of you."
FLORES: But when that friend e-mails you a month after being elected Pope, it's practically a blessing sent from God. He was a busy man at the time.
PAREDES: Yes, he was. Can you imagine, with all (INAUDIBLE) and all the situation that the Church had, that he had the time for a -- for friends.
FLORES: Father Hernan Paredes has known Pope Francis for three decades, their first meeting back in the 80s when Pope Francis was rector Jorge
Mario Bergoglio, the head of a hundred seminarian Jesuits, including now Father Paredes. What do you call Pope Francis?
PAREDES: Jorge.
FLORES: They stay in touch by writing letters and e-mailing, all in Spanish. That's because, Paredes says:
PAREDES: Forgive me, Pope Francis, but he failed twice to the (INAUDIBLE). He was twice to (INAUDIBLE) for him (INAUDIBLE) confidence. Sorry about
that. And he has no confidence any more.
FLORES: This picture, a momento from their visit in Argentina a few months before Francis became Pope.
PAREDES: He gave me his blessing, but at the same time I asked him to have a picture, so. And he told me, "Oh, Hernan, I (INAUDIBLE) I am not a man
of pictures. I too ugly." And you can it's a very -- it's very serious.
FLORES: Now with his rock star status, the 78-year-old Pontiff who loves listening to opera, is probably one of the most photographed faces on the
earth and one of the most quoted as well. His message during his three- country visit to South America one of inclusiveness, service, and democracy. Next on his agenda, Cuba and the U.S. in September. Father
Paredes says he doesn't know if Pope Francis, famous for his who am I to judge quote about homosexuality, won't comment about the recent Supreme
Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage.
PAREDES: Remember that the tradition of the Church doesn't change overnight and, at the same time, he's acknowledged that there are other
ways of living.
FLORES: Father Paredes, who now lives in New York, recently visited with the Pope in the Vatican, his first time seeing his dear friend since being
elected. It was an emotional reunion.
PAREDES: He said that I am too American now.
FLORES: What does that mean?
PAREDES: Well probably I put weight on, he put weight on.
FLORES: Like two old friends, they poked at each other. One of them just happens to be Pope. Rosa Flores, CNN, Quito, Ecuador.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
GORANI: And we'll of course have a lot more on the Pope's South American visit. Interestingly choosing three of the poorest countries on the
continent to visit for this particular tour.
A lot more on the other side of this break with Quest Means Business. The latest on what's happening with the Greek debt crisis. This has been The
World Right Now. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you here, same place, same time on CNN tomorrow.
END
