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Hala Gorani Tonight
Turkey Mourns Bombing Victims; Vatican Meeting on Environment, Human Trafficking; Trump Continues War of Words with Rivals; Toshiba Cooked Books for Years
Aired July 21, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:00:11] HALA GORANI, CNNI: Tonight, Turkey mourns dozens of people killed at a peace rally but who is the person responsible for this act of
terror?
Then charges here in Britain in what police say an uncle and nephew were plotting.
Plus a big meeting at the Vatican to tackle two tough issues as (hal) order for the Pope, climate change and human trafficking.
And later Donald Trump reads a phone number out loud. Only problem he says it is the direct line to one of his Republican rivals.
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GORANI: Hello everyone, I'm Hala Gorani, a lot going on this evening. We're live at CNN London, and this is the World Right Now.
Yesterday the murderous attack, today the grief in Turkey after a suicide bomber killed at least 31 people, and injured 100 more in Suruc on the
border with Syria.
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GORANI: The emotion was palpable as funerals took place in the nearby city of Gaziantep with mourners weeping, and you see them there chanting besides
the coffins of their loved ones.
Meanwhile the Turkish Prime Minister, Ahmet Davutoglu says one suspect has been identified and they say they are checking that person's links both
domestically and internationally. They did say initially that the evidence so far gathered pointed to ISIS.
The town of Suruc is just a few kilometers from the Syrian city of Kobani.
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GORANI: So for Turkey and the other countries in their region no matter what their networks of supporters sympathies the question is fast becoming
how to prevent these ISIS attacks.
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GORANI: The U.S. has been leading a coalition air campaign to fight the group in Iraq and Syria with it has to be said varied levels of success.
However on a trip to Jordan to visit coalition forces the Nation's Defense Secretary spoke about that very fight, listen to what he had to say.
ASH CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: At the moment we have tremendous air power and we do not have the ground power that we need in all places where
(ISIS) is operating. We're developing that but where we have it we see the tremendous combination between air power and capable local ground forces.
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GORANI: Ash Carter is there underlining the importance of having of course ground forces combined with the air power. Let's get more. Pentagon
correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins me now live from Washington with more.
What's being said at the Pentagon right now about this anti-ISIS campaign because of course you see some setbacks for the group but overall they're
still holding onto a lot of territory here.
BARBARA STARR, PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: They are indeed Hala, I think you're seeing two campaigns essentially.
In Iraq still Iraqi forces very challenged to get on the road, get moving, and get some of these key pieces of territory, like Ramadi, Fallujah, and
Mosul back.
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STARR: There is no question the Iraqi's have a long way to go on that. Northern Syria right now however slightly different and very much very
interesting.
The Kurdish forces are on the move towards Raqqa, the capital, the self- declared capital of ISIS. And they are just several miles north of Raqqa if you will. That is making the whole border area much more fraught.
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STARR: ISIS feeling the pressure from the Kurds approaching them in Raqqa. The feeling is that they are reaching out back towards the border, engaging
in this new round of violence against people there. You know inflicting just horrors on the Kurdish population there.
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STARR: Perhaps lashing out trying to separate the Kurds and Turkey from their government. Trying to engage in just mindless unreasonable violence
perhaps.
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STARR: But the impact certainly is to make Turkey very concerned at the very time the U.S. is pressing the Turks to get more control over that
border to keep ISIS fighters from moving from Turkey into Syria. ISIS is even under more pressure - pardon me, Turkey is even under more pressure of
course from ISIS.
GORANI: Right but Turkey as you know of course and as our viewers will know has long been accused of not being enthusiastic enough and there's
anti-ISIS fight, quite the contrary perhaps even preventing some of the flow of aid to Kurdish controlled areas inside Syria. Is the feeling at
the Pentagon now that what happened in Suruc, just a few km from Kobani might change some minds in Turkey as to how to approach all of this?
[15:05:00] STARR: Well they hope at the Pentagon the Turks will be able to get the political will essentially to tighten up that border.
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STARR: They want to see the flow of foreign fighters stop, see the flow of illicit goods, arms, that sort of thing stop from moving across the border.
Will this one attack, as absolutely awful as it is, will it lead to a fundamental change remains to be seen I think. The feeling at the Pentagon
in Washington is it is going to require some additional political will by the Turks. I think if you talk to a lot of people in the Turkish
government, they feel perhaps they're doing as much as they can right now.
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GORANI: All right, thanks very much. I know that for many it's not enough especially the Kurdish fighters. Barbara Starr, thanks very much from the
Pentagon.
Now to an alleged terrorist plot foiled authorities tell us right here in Britain.
Now they say a man planned to kill U.S. military personnel in this country then leave town with his uncle so they could both join ISIS in Syria. They
are both facing charges today.
Senior International Correspondent, Fred Pleitgen has been following that story. So Fred, what do we know about this case?
FRED PLEITGEN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well both suspects have been named; one of them is 22 year old Shazib Ahmed Khan, who's actually
the uncle even though he's younger than the other suspect whose name is Junead Ahmed Khan.
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PLEITGEN: And as you said both of them have been charged with allegedly wanting to go to Syria to join ISIS there but Junead has also been charged
with allegedly plotting to kill American service members here in Britain. And the talk was of a car accident style attack.
Now it's not clear whether or not that means faking a car accident and possibly getting service members to stop and then killing them. Or
actually hitting them with a car which is of course is something that's happened here in the past before.
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PLEITGEN: If you think back to 2013 and the British Soldier, Lee Rigby was killed. There was apparently also talk of killing them with a knife and
possibly using a suicide vest as well. And apparently Junead Ahmed Khan also said that he would think about killing British service members but
preferred to kill Americans.
Both of them were arrested north of London, in Luton on the 14th July and they remain in custody. There was another guy who was arrested with them
as well who's in his 30s but he was released without charges.
GORANI: Right, no charges. Let's talk a little bit about the latest statistics because the region there's so much concern and presumably
surveillance of some of these plots that authorities say they foiled is that there are men willing to travel to ISIS controlled territory. What
are the latest numbers?
PLEITGEN: Men and women as well. And as you know David Cameron just recently joined - started what he calls a five year plan to try and
eradicate people who want to go to ISIS, a big campaign that he talks about. But there have been some 700 people here from Britain who have
actually gone to Syria to join radical groups. Not just ISIS but of course ISIS as well.
There's some 43 young women and girls who have gone to join ISIS. And one of the interesting statistics is that 338 people have been arrested until
May of this year. So between 2014 and 2015.
GORANI: Wanting to travel there - to those areas.
PLEITGEN: Well on terrorism related charges.
GORANI: Right, OK.
PLEITGEN: That's up from 254 only a year before. So certainly this is something that is a big concern to this country of course, to many other
countries as well. But judging from this plot this certainly is something that is cause for concern here.
GORANI: All right, we'll continue to follow that. Fred Pleitgen, thanks very much.
Now to something completely different; Pope Francis. The Pontiff appears more determined than ever to tackle two major world problems; climate
change, and human trafficking.
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GORANI: For weeks now he's been trying to put pressure on governments around the world to take action on both issues. He renewed that push
earlier at a two day Vatican conference of mayors and governors. He said he wants a commitment both at the local level as well as internationally,
listen.
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POPE FRANCIS: (As translated). The United Nations really needs to take a very strong position on this issue. Particularly the trafficking of human
beings that are caused by this environmental situation and the exploitation of people.
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GORANI: Pope Francis, let's bring in our Vatican correspondent, Delia Gallagher, she joins us from Rome. First of all Delia why put these two
issues together in the same conferences is my first question; human trafficking and climate change. Two very big problems but why together?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes the Vatican calls them interconnected emergencies and for the Vatican their reasoning is
this.
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GALLAGHER: They say that extreme weather conditions are caused by social, economic and environmental instability. And that that instability then
lays fertile ground for forced migration or human trafficking. So that is their reasoning why they're putting these two together.
For Pope Francis I think it can be summed up in two words, the poor. These are both issues which affect the poor mostly and that is Pope Francis' main
concern. In fact he said it to the mayors and local leaders today that they were the ones who were on the ground most able to be in touch with
their constituencies and those who are most marginalized and that that was their job to reach the consciousness of those who Pope Francis calls on the
peripheries. Hala.
[15:10:17] GORANI: All right, and now what kind of impact is Pope Francis hoping to have on these decision makers, these policy makers? I mean how
will the Pope then I suppose measure success with regards to these initiatives and trying to put pressure on politicians?
GALLAGHER: Well what the Vatican has been doing is a kind of two pronged approach. One at the international level with regards to the UN, the Pope
mentioned it today saying that he had great hope in the Paris Summit in December.
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GALLAGHER: He hoped that they would address the issue of human trafficking and he hoped that they would obtain a fundamental basic agreement on
sustainable development.
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GALLAGHER: So, he is very clear and very outspoken. Has had a number of conferences and high level meetings with people at the UN to try and
achieve those goals. At the same time he's working at the grassroots level to encourage really those mayors and leaders at a local level to, as I
said, reach out to those people that they are in contact with. He said, you need both, you know it's not good enough. He says the holy (sea) can
give nice speeches but you're the ones who are on the ground and able to affect those who are most needy. Hala.
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GORANI: All right, Delia Gallagher, thanks very much, live in Rome. I was just quickly looking up the Pope Francis tweet that got so much attention;
something along the lines of the planet we live on is becoming more and more a pile of filth. I'm paraphrasing, didn't have time to actually put
it up. But essentially you can really sense even through the tweets, even though what he says on the social media platform just how much the
environment and climate is important to him and also human trafficking.
Well here at CNN we're also putting the spotlight on that issue. The actress and activist Jada Pinkett Smith brings us unprecedented access to
victims and officials as she investigates human trafficking going on inside the United States./
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GORANI: It's part of her new Freedom Project documentary, Children for Sale. You'll see a sneak peek of it later in the show including Pinkett
Smith's interview with one girl who says she was sold for sex in the U.S. when she was just 14.
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GORANI: A lot more to come tonight.
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GORANI: Investigators are learning more about the man who opened fire in Tennessee and they may be zeroing in on a motive. We'll have the latest in
the search for answers next.
And later, are we, the media, fuelling the rise of Donald Trump? I'll put that question to a political roundtable in about 20 minutes.
All that and much more on the World Right Now.
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[15:15:00] GORANI: A motive may be coming into focus for last week's shooting rampage in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
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GORANI: Writings and internet searches suggest Mohammad Abdulazeez had become radicalized.
Meantime flags outside the White House and U.S. capital were lowered Tuesday for the four marines and one sailor who were killed.
CNN U.S. Justice Correspondent, Evan Perez is gathering information on this story. He's in our Washington Bureau and joins me now live. Tell us a
little bit more about what investigators have uncovered in this case, Evan.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, some of this radicalization seems to at least go back to 2013.
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PEREZ: There's some writing of the suspect, Mohammad Abdulazeez that have been looked at by the FBI and it makes reference - some of the writings
make reference to Anwar al-Awlaki the Yemeni American cleric who the U.S. says was a leader of al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula.
And according to what we're gold the writings make reference to the fact that the suspect, Abdulazeez agreed with and supported some of Awlaki's
teachings. And then if you look at this more recently on his phone they found signs that he was searching on the internet for the meeting of
martyrdom and he seems to be obsessed with this idea that perhaps using martyrdom as a way to a tone for some of his sin s for abusing alcohol and
drugs which we know was something that he was struggling with, along with mental health issues.
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PEREZ: The FBI have not firmly established that the radicalization explains what happens here. However they do believe that you can't just
explain this from his mental health problems. A lot of people have mental health issues and they don't go around carrying out mass shootings like
this.
GORANI: Sure, we see it with all those types of shootings in the U.S. but I guess one of the big questions Evan is; did this individual - was he in
touch, was he contacting anyone outside of the United States?
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GORANI: Did he get any orders or was he coached into doing this. Are they closer to answering that question?
PEREZ: They - at this point they still, and you know we're still very early in the investigation, but certainly by now they expected that they
would have found some kind of communication if there were any. It doesn't appear that he was in touch with anybody directly, communicating with
anybody, getting instructions on any of this.
They are still looking at his visits to Jordan last year, he spent about seven months there living with his uncle we know. And we now know that the
uncle is in the custody of Jordanian officials who are questioning in. They want to know more about who he might have seen while he was there so
they're still not done that part of the investigation. At this point though this looks like somebody who's self-radicalized coming up with his
own - with his own version of radical Islamist teaching or theology and then carried out this attack perhaps inspired by those things.
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GORANI: All right, Evan Perez, thanks very much in Washington.
PEREZ: Thanks.
GORANI: Now to most it's barbaric of course but to some it's a traditional practice. What's clear is that the victims of female genital mutilation
can be found in countries across the globe.
A shocking new report found that in one borough right here in London almost one in 20 women is actually a victim.
A warning that some may find Atika Shubert's report disturbing.
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ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Summer sun shines on some of London's cutting edge architecture just south of the Thames River in
Southwark Borough. But newly released data shows a dark side to this part of London. FGM also known as Female Genital Mutilation has made its way
here with the migrants who have been affected.
The numbers are shocking anti-FGM campaign group Equality Now says that one in 20 women here in Southwark Borough are estimated to have undergone FGM,
the highest prevalent in Britain.
The data comes from an estimate of the number of women from FGM prevalent countries now living in the U.K. It's said to be practiced in 29
countries, mostly in Africa and UNICEF estimates that over 125 million of women and girls had had these types of procedures worldwide.
Isatou and Ronata are two survivors of FGM originally from Gambia now in London; they spoke to us last year.
ISATOU KRAMER: The worst part of it is when you have to go and squat. You know they've made a little hole underground and you have to go and squat it
in so the blood can come out. I find that really disgusting because there's other kids next to you as well crying when you go out there you
just think that's normal you know. And then you just find out that this may be wrong, no child should ever have to go through that.
SHUBERT: Since September 2014 Britain's National Health Service is now required to register all cases of FGM it finds. So far nearly 4,000 cases
have been newly identified, an average of 500 a month.
[15:20:11] This year in an unprecedented case, the U.K. issued a protection order to prevent to young girls from being taken out of the
country for fear they were destined for a circumcision ceremony abroad, something Isatou and Ronata vow will never happen to their daughters.
RONATA BERAUD: I was like there's no way anyone's doing that to my daughter and if they do I'll make sure they go to prison for it. And at
first it's like oh you guys are like - you've taken up the culture here so much, you're African, this is our culture, we found it here and we have to
continue it. And I was like no mum, not with me.
SHUBERT: The data on FGM survivors is still being collected but these numbers are one way campaigners say to shine a light on an issue that's
been kept in the dark for far too long.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London.
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GORANI: Coming up when the World Right Now continues a look at the business world.
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GORANI: And Toshiba's CEO resigns in disgrace following a billion dollar accounting scandal. We'll tell you how investors are responding to the
news, next.
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GORANI: Welcome back; it's a down day on Wall Street. Down more than 200 points at 17,894. A look at the NASDAQ and the S&P, also a negative day,
take a look at the indices.
And across Europe, it was also arrows pointing downward for the major indices with the (inaudible) down more than one and one tenth of a percent.
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GORANI: The CEO of Japanese Conglomerate, Toshiba, has resigned after it was revealed the company cooked the books for seven years.
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GORANI: Hisao Tanaka stood down after an independent committee found the company overstated profits by $1.2 billion. Eight board members including
the vice chairman have also resigned.
Toshiba shares have dropped around 20% since the company disclosed accounting irregularities in April. However they reacted differently
today.
For more on this I'm joined by the host of World Business Today, Maggie Lake, live from New York.
So Maggie, first of all this -- these numbers are staggering but investors actually breathed a sigh of relief today; tell us why.
MAGGIE LAKE, HOST OF WORLD BUSINESS TODAY: Yes, a little confusing isn't it Hala. And first of all this is extraordinary. We're not talking about
one quarter or one rogue person.
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LAKE: This was a systemic issue that went on for seven years and evidently most of the senior managers knew that. I mean it's not often you see
headlines like that. Let's put up that stock price though and show the reaction that's a bit confusing on the surface.
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LAKE: And shares actually rose today 6%. It appears that investors are perhaps hoping now that the very top senior managers have stepped down;
eight in total with the submission that the company finally perhaps putting this chapter behind it.
But Hala, I'm not so sure that there is reason to celebrate here. When you look at this independent investigation I mean it really shows a systemic
problem. And there's a quote from the people who carried out the study and take a look at what they said. That there existed a corporate culture at
Toshiba where it was impossible to go against the bosses will. These managers set unrealistic expectations they knew couldn't be met and most of
the employees felt that they had no choice but to go along with.
[15:25:07] A lot of people think that this calls into question or raises a lot of important questions about the corporate culture in Japan. I mean is
this limited to Toshiba?
Also very important questions about where were the auditors? Where were the safety checks that are supposed to be put in place?
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LAKE: Yes this came to light because of questions by regulators but where were they for seven years? So I'm not sure that - at all that this is the
end of the story. I think there are a lot more questions that are going to need to be answered here for investors to be able to have confidence in
what they're putting their money in.
GORANI: Yes, and so many questions. I mean first of all seven years as you just mentioned there. It means for seven years at the highest levels
of this giant multi-national corporation that there was essentially fraud going on, lying quarter after quarter about earnings and profits. I mean
how long did they - I mean they must have known that at some point this was all going to crumble right? I mean it's like any scheme at some point
you're uncovered.
LAKE: That's right but it's impossible to get out of that situation isn't it once you start that ball rolling. We've seen that almost in every fraud
case or pyramid scheme or ponsi scheme we've ever seen, so perhaps not a surprise that they themselves didn't disclose it.
I think the question is you know if you - if you were to see that happen say in London and New York, I mean there would be a criminal investigation,
there would be handcuffs, there would be a trial. I mean presumably there will be one but when we've asked people do you think anyone's going to jail
for this the answer we are getting is probably not.
If you look at what happened with Olympus for example. There will be fines but there was no jail time served. So again I think that this is a country
that's going to have to take a hard look at what's happening, who's watching, and what are the repurcussions if you have fraud at this level.
Should someone be serving jail? Should something more happen?
I mean even the Finance Minister Hala admitting that this is going to call into question the credibility of Japanese companies. So they are taking
this very seriously but it seems a lot more needs to be done to change things at that very core cultural level. Whistleblowers, something not
very common in Japan.
GORANI: All right, Maggie Lake in New York, thanks very much. Staggering business story there.
The latest World News headlines just ahead.
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GORANI: Plus he keeps racking up the sensational headlines but is the media too eager to feature Donald Trump? We will devote at least one more
segment of this show to that very question. Our political panel is up next.
And a young girl who says she was bullied and then exploited. The story of how she ended up under the control of a sex trafficker in the United
States.
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[15:30:00] GORANI: A look at our top stories.
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GORANI: Funerals have taken place for the victims of Monday's bomb attack in Southern Turkey. At least 31 people were killed when an explosion
(inaudible) for a rally in the town of Suruc. Turkish Prime Minister says one of the suspects has been identified and that a connection with ISIS
appears likely.
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GORANI: Also among our top stories; Pope Francis is calling on the United Nations to do more to stop human trafficking.
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GORANI: He spoke earlier at a Vatican conference of mayors and governors from around the world. He says the UN must make it a top priority to
prevent the exploitation of the world's most vulnerable.
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GORANI: Two British men are in custody today on terrorism charges.
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GORANI: Authorities say the pair living north of London intended on joining ISIS in Syria and that one of them was planning to kill an American
serviceman in the U.K.
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GORANI: Polls opened Tuesday in Burundi for its controversial election.
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GORANI: President Pierre Nkurunziza is seeking an unprecedented third term. His decision to run sparked weeks of violent protests and upheaval
in the African nation.
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GORANI: Donald Trump is taking his - is taking his feud with fellow U.S. Republican Presidential candidate Lindsey Graham to a whole new level.
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GORANI: Speaking to hundreds of people at a rally Trump actually read out a phone number that he said people could use to reach the South Carolina
Senator's private cell phone. And that wasn't all he said about Graham. Listen to this.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wow, they can talk all they want. I mean I got a little dose of it, I was coming up and I see your senator,
what a stiff - what a stiff. Lindsey Graham.
(LAUGHING)
TRUMP: By the way - by the way he's registered zero in the polls. Zero, he's on television all the time.
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GORANI: Well that wasn't Trump's only controversial moment of the day. He hit back at the Des Moines Register who had called on him to drop out of
the race. Trump describes the piece as "a sophomoric editorial." Dana Bash has more.
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DANA BASH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In a brutal editorial Iowa's biggest newspaper, the Des Moines Register is demanding Donald Trump "pull
the plug on his bloviating side show" calling him a feckless blowhard who can generate headlines, name recognition, and polling numbers not by
provoking thought but by provoking outrage.
His Republican competitors agree.
LINDSEY GRAHAM: He's becoming a jackass.
TRUMP: I have respect for Senator McCain.
BASH: Trump is still not apologizing for criticizing John McCain's war service but did come closer than before.
TRUMP: I supported him, I raised a lot of money for his campaign against President Obama. And certainly if there was a misunderstanding I would
totally take that back. But hopefully I said it correctly.
BASH: Even for the bombastic Trump who appears to crave controversy the bipartisan backlash from his weekend remarks about McCain's five years as a
prisoner of war in Vietnam was intense.
TRUMP: He's not a war hero. He's a war hero `cause he was captured. I like people who weren't captured OK. Perhaps he's a war hero but right now
he's said some very bad things about a lot of people.
BASH: Still a new national poll shows Trump isn't just leading the crowd of GOP Presidential field but leading big at 24% with second place Scott
Walker, and third, Jeb Bush, trailing by double digits.
But that same survey may signal trouble for Trump. He got 28% on three consecutive nights. But on Sunday after his controversial comments his
support dipped.
McCain himself is determined to take the high road but McCain's son Jack, a fourth generation McCain naval officer currently on active duty didn't hold
back about what he thinks.
JACK MCCAIN, NAVAL OFFICER: My father, he's a public figure, he's a politician he's open to attack. But Prisoners of War in general; I mean
Donald Trump has to understand that he's running for to be the Commander in Chief of the United States Military. If an individual gets rolled up,
becomes a Prisoner of War, then is he going to abandon them simply because he doesn't like people that are captured?
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GORANI: There you have it. You heard Dana Bash - you heard in Dana Bash's report there how all those controversies are not hurting Trump in the polls
but what role does the media coverage of him play in this? Let's discuss this with CNN Political Analyst, Josh Rogin.
Josh, first of all it seems like day after day Donald Trump is trying to find a way to trump himself from the day before. I mean now he's reading
out Lindsey Graham's cell phone number to a crowd of people and it seems at least according to some accounts, that that was actually Lindsey Graham's
cell phone number.
JOSH ROGIN: Yes, I can confirm that was Lindsey Graham's personal cell phone number. It won't be his personal cell phone number going forward
he's going to have to change it now.
You know that moment was so quintessentially Trump for two reasons; On the one hand he's reading out his cell phone number to make a succulent point
that Lindsey Graham had come to him and asked for his help.
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[15:35:11] ROGIN: And now was trashing him in the press. So he's trying to paint the other Republican candidates as hypocrites. At the same time
he's just messing with Lindsey Graham and he feels personally insulted when Lindsey Graham called him a name. So he's getting back at him by
inconveniencing him in a major way in having the entire world call his cell phone number all at one time.
So this is what Trump is doing.
GORANI: But what's it - what is he - how is he continuing then to score in the polls in the way that he is? He is appealing to at least according to
the latest Washington Post ABC poll, 24% of Republican, all Republican (leaning) voters.
ROGIN: Yes I think there's two things going on here; one is that you know the media attention and the polls are reinforcing right. It's a virtuous
or some would say a vicious cycle right. The more attention he gets, the more people he gets to be aware of him, the more response he gets in the
polls.
The other thing he's doing here is he's tapping into a sentiment in a segment of the Republican party of people who haven't really been
approached. Who haven't really been connected with by the other mainstream candidates.
I talked to Ted Cruz today about an hour ago and I asked him about Donald Trump and he refused to comment at all. Now that's for two reasons, Ted
Cruz doesn't want to pick a fight with Donald Trump but it's also because candidates like Ted Cruz are trying to tap into that same group. We're
talking about what Trump calls the silent majority, but they're not really silent and they're not really a majority.
They're a group of republican voters that John McCain has called crazies, the people that Trump is appealing to and that is a big part of the
electorate and those people are active in the primaries. And Trump in making this calculation - go ahead.
GORANI: No, no I was going to say you mentioned Ted Cruz but other candidates are now engaging with Donald Trump directly. They were kind of
staying out of it up until the McCain comments we heard from Jeb Bush, we heard from Scott Walker. So they on this one, after Donald Trump said
McCain is not a hero, his exact quote was "a like people that aren't - that weren't captured OK." They're seizing - they're sensing an opportunity
here to attack him on this particular issue.
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ROGIN: Well yes they're taking a risk. I mean we have a phrase in Washington when you wrestle with the pig you get dirty and the pig is
happy, right. So these candidates are all inching out into this - into this dangerous zone of attacking Trump. When they see an issue like the
veterans they think that's safe. It's very hard for anyone to attack somebody for defending a veteran. So that one they feel OK on.
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ROGIN: But when you get into any of these other issues whether it be immigration or the border or whatever it is you won't see that because
there's more upside for Donald Trump and only downside for these candidates for getting into a fight with a guy who has a bull horn and who has all
this media coverage.
So for right now what the smart Republicans are going to try to do is they are going to try to take small hits at Trump when they can but basically
stay out of his way, hope that his campaign implodes and hope that they're left standing there when it does.
GORANI: And is it partly because of the media coverage? I mean you talked about the virtuous or vicious cycle here but there is an element of a cycle
at play here where of course the more coverage you get, the more attention you get, and you at least get the opportunity to appeal to more and more
potential voters.
ROGIN: Right. There's also a gap, right. There's this six month gap between where we are now and when people actually start voting. So if
you're - if you're game is to stay in it for the long haul and to really build your support organically and build infrastructure and be in the
strongest position you can be in December, in January, in February when people start voting.
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ROGIN: Then your best play is to sort of take a measured low profile or at least a medium profile at this time. You see all the big candidates really
doing that.
Trump doesn't have to play that game `cause in the end he's not really gunning for you know to come out with the greatest momentum at the end. He
might as well take his biggest shots now, he knows he'll probably flame out, he knows he probably won't make it to the general election. He's got
nothing to lose therefore he can take big risks now. And that's the advantage that he has, that's what the media likes, that seems to be what
the people who are getting polled like. That's not a long term strategy. That will eventually as we saw in the 2012 cycle with candidates like
Michelle Bachman and Herman Cain will eventually reach a crescendo and then will start on the downturn.
And that's where Trump really falls off. But by that point the damage to the Republican party and the other candidates might already be done.
GORANI: And someone lastly with a very long term strategy is Hilary Clinton. What is going through her mind do you think right now as she
watches this - I mean some of her comments it's a sideshow, you know what is she thinking right now?
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ROGIN: She's thinking this is a gift from heaven. I mean the entire - you know if you look at Scott Walker or Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio their game is
to care about their candidacy but also to care about their party, right. They want whoever wins the Republican primary to win the election so they
aim most of their fire at Hilary Clinton, not much of their fire against each other.
Right, for Hilary Clinton this is allowing the Republican party to just feed on itself, to really implode from within. It's the best case scenario
for her. All she has to sit through is sit back and watch it happen, it's a really good thing for her.
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GORANI: Yes. Josh Rogin a columnist at Bloomberg and also one of our contributors. Thanks very much for being on this show this evening.
ROGIN: Any time.
GORANI: This is the - this is the World Right Now. Still ahead we focus on the problem of human trafficking.
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[15:40:13] GORANI: We've been talking about it a lot. It was discussed at the Pope's Vatican conference. Well hear one girl's story on how she
became a victim and what hope there is to help prevent the exploitation of children.
Also coming up, he's back home on safe ground but what did Champion surfer Mick Fanning, have to say about his near miss with that shark?
Stay with us for more.
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GORANI: In the documentary Children for Sale: the fight to end human trafficking, actress and activist Jada Pinkett Smith investigates how human
trafficking is happening inside the United States. It's part of our effort here at CNN to report on modern day slavery wherever it happens.
And in the clip we're about to show you she interviews a young survivor who was sold for sex. She says she was lured in by someone she thought was her
friend.
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(INAUDIBLE)
JADA PINKETT SMITH: Sasha Ray was born and raised in Florida. By the time she 14 she was constantly being teased at school.
SASHA RAY: What I got picked on a lot about was being black. I have really, really dark skin I guess.
PINKETT SMITH: She felt alone at home and at school. Sasha Ray says that's why when an older classmate offered friendship she jumped at it.
RAY: I thought she was like my best friend `cause I could like tell her anything. One day she asked if you know I want to skip school, want to fun
you know. So we went to this barber shop. When I was there she introduced me to these guys.
PINKETT SMITH: Sasha Ray's new friend had just led her to the man who would eventually become her trafficker.
RAY: We talked about how I was going to make money, how it was going to be easy we didn't have to depend on no-body. Andy it was all sounding good
and stuff so I fell for it.
PINKETT SMITH: Was there any kind of grooming process like when this first started. Or is it something that just happened and you - and he was just
expecting you to learn on the way?
RAY: (inaudible) and I when we got closer he felt like he got closer to me. He usually did it out the back of the barber shop. And he even had
people that worked with the post office mailman come in. A mailman came in and paid their money to him, came back there to me.
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[15:45:00] GORANI: Well be sure to watch the CNN Freedom Project Documentary Children for Sale. It premieres at this hour tomorrow the hour
we're in so we're going to be taking the evening off. But do tune in to that documentary at 8pm London time, 9pm in Berlin on CNN.
Let us take a closer look at this problem and what is being done to stop it. I want to bring in Kevin Hyland, the United Kingdom's first
independent anti-slavery commissioner. He's with us from Rome where he's been following the Vatican conference addressing human trafficking.
Thank you sir for being with us. First I was looking at some of the numbers in the United Kingdom alone; up to 13,000 potential victims of
slavery in the U.K. How - could you define the problem of modern day slavery in a country like the United Kingdom?
KEVIN HYLAND, INDEPENDENT ANTI-SLAVERY COMMISSIONER: Yes well that number is obviously truly shocking. And these are people who come from around the
globe. They're people who are sometimes duped, promised that they'll earn lots of money, promises that will never actually come to reality. And when
they come to the United Kingdom they're force into sometimes prostitution, forced labor, or sometimes sent out to commit crime or even get involved in
issues like selling charity bags for gangs who are making millions of pounds that they're then returning to the criminal groups who operate
sometimes within the United Kingdom but very often overseas.
GORANI: And Mr. Hyland you mention that there were 151 convictions for slavery related offences for last year. And if we're talking here about
13,000 potential victims of slavery there's a big disconnect between the two numbers. Why is that?
HYLAND: And you're absolutely right about that and that's one of the issues that I'm really focusing on as the anti-slavery commissioner is
those numbers. That we start with a number of potentially 13,000 victims. The numbers that are known to the authorities in the United Kingdom come
down to 2,700 and then the numbers that end up in prosecutions are less than 150.
So I'm really concerned about that and I think what it is is there isn't the resources allocated to this either nationally within the United Kingdom
or internationally. This needs to be responded to as a crime where there's an issue of safeguarding. But it's organized criminality and a very
serious crime. So I need to make sure that the resources that are required are being focused on this. But then also when the victims are identified
that they are properly supported and that their accounts are recorded and those who commit these crimes are pursued and prosecuted, because at the
moment that's not happening either in the United Kingdom or I don't think Internationally.
GORANI: And why not? Is there - I mean are authorities, police authorities, and I know you were in law enforcement previously before
becoming the Independent Anti-Slavery Commissioner for the United Kingdom, is it that or is it fear on the part of those who are the victims of human
trafficking who don't speak out, who don't seek help from police or authorities, or the government. What is it exactly here getting in the way
of trying to make a real difference?
HYLAND: I think we should never blame the victims. This isn't down to the victims in any way shape or form, they are victims and they need to be
supported. I think that the response is in some ways not coordinated properly. I think there aren't enough resources on this.
If we look at other crimes that are involve what are commodities, drugs and guns, there are a lot of resources placed into the investigations of these
types of crimes. But in this crime, the commodity is a human being, a human life. So across the United Kingdom and internationally there aren't
the same level of resources allocated to investigate these crimes. But also there is a process of understanding.
Again as the anti-slavery commissioner my role is about raising awareness, improving the training, and working internationally to coordinate across
the United Kingdom but also internationally so that the intelligence flows are improved and that we can actually look in countries of source to look
at how we can implement prevention. So when the crime does occur that we've got a coordinated response that goes right to the heart of the
issues.
Some of the areas I'm working in are like in Africa where I'm looking at .
GORANI: In Nigeria I was going to - sorry to jump in .
HYLAND: . some of the issues around .
GORANI: . where you say Nigeria is a top priority I just wanted to get to Nigeria as we're running out of time. Nigeria top priority to tackle
trafficking or people there. Why is the problem so significant there?
HYLAND: Well, in the United Kingdom, Nigeria has been in the top one or two countries for a long time and if we actually look at the issues there
the research I conducted and the research by the International Organization of Migration shows that 98% of the women trafficked into Europe come from
one state.
[15:50:06] And that goes back to some of the trade back in the 80s when women were involved in legitimate trades but criminals have muscled in on
you know on prostitution and forced labor crimes.
So I'm working very much with the Nigerian authorities, Civil Society, the church across Nigeria, but also looking at how we in the United Kingdom can
assist in improving not just the response with the United Kingdom but internationally to actually prevent this crime from happening. But as I
say throughout to support victims when they do become victims of these awful crimes.
GORANI: All right, Kevin Hyland, well we can only wish you good luck. It's a tough job you have. The UK's first independent anti-slavery
commissioner joining us from Rome. Thank you very much.
And coming up when we return.
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GORANI: Was it an inside job or is it just Karma for promoting something that you shouldn't necessarily be proud of? As members of the website
Ashley Madison worry about their personal information in the hands of hackers we ask is Ashley Madison at risk of being sued by its users?
And champion surfer, Mick Fanning, is back on (inaudible) speaking out again about that near miss with a shark seen around the world.
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GORANI: Quite the home coming to remember for a surfer, Mick Fanning. The three time World Champion is back in Australia after a shark attack that
stunned the world.
Fanning says the encounter could take months to recover from but he is amazed to be home in one piece, listen to this.
MICK FANNING: To walk away from you know a shark attack with not a scratch on you it's like - it's a miracle really. You know I spoke to different
people, I actually had dinner with a guy who had been attacked three times and you know it was just like - yes, I dunno you just count your lucky
stars and if there is someone up there looking after us, thanks.
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GORANI: There you have it. There's more fall out today by the way from the hack of extra-marital affair website, Ashley Madison.
So if you're one of the 1.2 million estimated users here in the United Kingdom and you are worried news of your affair could come out, there may
be some legal avenues to go down.
Let's bring in our Samuel Burke with news you can use. Hi Samuel.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Hala. Well 1.2 million is really a drop in the bucket. We've been reporting over and over
again about Ashleymadison.com. And we keep on talking about the threat from these hackers to publish information but Hala the unfortunate news is
that the hackers have begun publishing the information that's according to research - security research, Brian Krebs who's very well respected.
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BURKE: And we now have this confirmed from the company that owns Ashley Madison.com.
In a statement they said the following confirming information about these records being published "using the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, also
known as DMCA, our team has now successfully removed the post related to this incident as well as all personally identifiable information about our
users published online."
So what this security researcher is saying that a very small amount of information was published, and they were able to bring it off the internet.
If that all sounds like bureaucratic speak it's quite interestingly actually.
[15:55:12] Basically that Copyright Act is usually what's used to bring down songs or music videos that people publish and they don't have the
rights to. But in this case the legal maneuver is that companies use is to say if somebody publishes your information whether it's very private photos
you have or conversations you've had with somebody else about having an affair well that information belongs to you. It's a copyright and so
they're bringing that information down.
But again, some of this information has already been published online.
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GORANI: And it was removed though or can it be found somewhere else? I mean presumably it's easy to replicate and post it somewhere else, right?
BURKE: It's been removed. We haven't been able to find it again for ourselves at CNN. But again, once something goes up the likelihood that it
can then be found again goes up infinitely and we have to remind people that the hackers said that every day that this company Avid Life Media
doesn't take down these websites, again it's not just Ashleymadison.com but also cougarlife.com and establishedmen.com.
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BURKE: Every day that this company does not take down the websites that you're seeing right in front of you on your television set right now they
say that they will continue to post more and more information, personal records, possibly even financial records of the people who use these
websites.
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GORANI: Well we for - for a - I was going to say research purposes we did go onto Cougerlife.com. I didn't complete the registration because it
required an email and I wasn't about to give my email.
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GORANI: But it does really ask many questions, you know. And you have to I presume then verify your membership and provide some sort of credit card
et cetera.
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GORANI: But say you're one of the unfortunate people whose data was stolen. Can you sue? What can you do? You can talk to lawyers about
this?
BURKE: Yes well I have to say you know some of these websites make you chuckle the names and everything but the truth of the matter is if you add
up all the websites that we've just been showing, it all adds up to about 40 million users and certainly no laughing matter for them. And the
lawyers that we've been speaking with say look the laws have changed more and more to put - make it so that there can be more liability for these
companies of data breaches, so there are going to be people suing more than likely.
GORANI: All right, Samuel Burke, thanks very much in New York.
I'm Hala Gorani, Quest Means Business is next.
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