Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Greece's Prime Minister Resigns; New Details of Investigation Into Deadly Bangkok Blast; Banksy Debuts New Work. Aired 3-4p ET.
Aired August 20, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:10] HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight, Greece's Prime Minister resigns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Alexis Tsipras calls for a snap election and says it's up to the Greek people to judge how he's handled a major economic crisis.
Plus this hour new details emerge in the investigation into that deadly blast in Bangkok. We'll have the very latest for you.
Also you saw CNN's full interview with Donald Trump last hour, coming up we'll take a closer look at his latest attack on Hilary Clinton.
And a controversial and mysterious British artist Banksy debuts his latest life size work, you won't want to miss that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Hello everyone, I'm Hala Gorani, we're live at CNN London, and this is The World Right Now.
More drama in Greece. Alexis Tsipras says he will turn in his resignation as Greek Prime Minister only to run again for the same post.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Tsipras had been relying on the support of the opposition to pass some laws that are unpopular within his own party. Some members of
(inaudible) movement were particularly unhappy with the terms of the European bailout agreement. Earlier Tsipras addressed the difficult
negotiations and he defended his decisions.
ALEXIS TSIPRAS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: (As translated) Let us be clear without these - this (inaudible) the borrowers either would have imposed
(inaudible) on everything and they would have lead us (inaudible)
The (elasticity) loss present during the negotiations the (elasticity) gave us (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well Tsipras' party is the most popular in the polls so how will this change the country's course? Let's go straight to Greece, Atika
Shubert joins me now live from Kos. She's been following the migrant crisis that is starting to overwhelm the island there but we're going to
talk a little bit now Atika about this Tsipras announcement.
What is he hoping for here? To strengthen his hand essentially, right?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well exactly because as you point out Syriza was quite popular but within his own party
he faces something of a revolt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHUBERT: In fact just about a third of his party rejected the debt deal that he made with the EU. So what he's really doing here is saying I'm
taking it to the voter, I'm taking it directly to the people, I've done the best job I can, it's now up to the public to decide whether or not it's
what they wanted. And so he's taking a bit of a gamble here but what he's really trying to do is clean up his own political house and if he can't get
the support that he needs in Syriza then at some point he's going to need to form a coalition with other opposition members.
So that's what this is really about. Also remember just today they have received that first tranche in that debt deal, $26 billion and so there is
now money to hold an election and that is one reason to announce it now, Hala.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And how will this - will this have an impact on these debt deals, on these negotiations between Greece and its creditors?
SHUBERT: Well it's going forward but essentially the debt deal that's been done doesn't really resolve anything it sort of just kicks the can down the
road. So it will impact the election. The election will of course determine going forward how to deal with the debt crisis then. So it's
really up to the public now to say is this a good deal? Was this the best of a series of options that were very difficult or could there have been a
better deal? Did for example - do - does the public believe that Tsipras caved in to creditors demands.
So these are the questions that voters are going to have to - to make at the poll. So far the last poll seemed to show that his rating still stood
at around 60% so he is in a strong position. We'll have to see if it still holds when the elections come in about a month's time.
GORANI: All right, another throw of the dice by Alexis Tsipras, thanks very much. Atika Shubert is in Greece, in Kos.
New information today on the deadly bombing at a Bangkok Shrine. We're learning from officials that 10 people may have actually been involved in
the bomb attack.
They are now looking for a woman who was wearing a black shirt who maybe a suspect but officials now say two men being sought earlier were likely not
involved.
With the very latest from Bangkok, Saima Mohsin joins us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Two men identified on CCTV footage by Thai police telling CNN that they believe they were accomplices
to the bomber who planted that backpack underneath the bench inside Erawan Shrine have come forward. They've turned themselves into police saying
they are not connected in any way to that bomber.
[15:05:10] The man in the red shirt, and the man in the white shirt, clearly seen in CCTV footage standing in front of that man in the yellow
shirt identified as the main suspect, say they are innocent. They're - the man in the red shirt says he is a tour guide and the man in a white shirt
says he's a tourist. They have nothing to do with the bomber. That's the very latest that Thai police are telling us.
Now so far police seem to be working on their investigation on a process of elimination. That's how they came up with the theory of these two men
standing in front of the bomber. Were they trying to conceal something? They say they were not. Now they are also looking at other CCTV cameras
tracking the movements of that man in the yellow shirt seen entering with the backpack leaving the shrine without it.
They are trying to locate him, they're trying to locate anyone he may have come into contact with, anyone perhaps he was working with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOHSIN: They're also checking CCTV footage at the airport. But a lot of people saying that there are not enough answers so far in this
investigation, they want more evidence shared with the public, they want more results, soon.
Saima Mohsin, CNN, Bangkok, Thailand.
GORANI: All right, thanks to Saima Mohsin in Bangkok. It's been a day of escalation tensions and some fiery rhetoric on the Korean peninsula.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: North and South Korea exchanged artillery fire across the heavily fortified border. According to the Defense Ministry in Seoul North Korea
fired two shells and South Korea retaliated with dozens more.
South Korea's President ordered the military to prepare for "a stern response" following all of this. Relations between the two sides have been
increasingly strained in the past few weeks after two South Korean soldiers were seriously wounded by landmines in the demilitarized zone prompting the
south to resume blaring propaganda messages over the border.
Let's cross live to New York and speak to Gordon Chang.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: He's the author of the book "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World" and is also a columnist at Forbes.com. Gordon Chang, thanks
for being with us.
First off, how much of a concern are these latest developments?
GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN: NORTH KOREA TAKES ON THE WORLD: I think this is a concern and the reason is that these shelling back and
forth across the de-militarized zone this comes at a time when it normally wouldn't occur.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANG: North Korea can be provocative but not when South Korea and the United States are at a high state of readiness, which they are right now
because they're ongoing military drills. So I think that essentially this shows that either North Korea's not serious or its policies are losing
coherence. And I'm worried about the second possibility because that means we're going to have troubles in the weeks ahead if that's what's going on
right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, so but it's doing this for a reason? I mean it must think that it's going to get something out of this. What does it think it
can get out of picking a fight at this stage?
CHANG: Well you know normally North Korea will be provocative before exercises start because they want to make sure exercises don't occur.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHANG: They've never been successful on that. But I think that the reason why we're seeing problems from North Korea right now is that there are
internal issues in the regime. Kim Jong-un, the ruler I think is - does not have a secure grip on power. And I think that he's using these
belligerent actions to try to bolster his political position back home.
GORANI: All right, so this could be really geared at a domestic audience. But this has happened in the past. You're saying not normally during this
time, usually before military exercises, but we've had exchange of fire before and a lot of tension between the two Koreas.
CHANG: Well yes and we had exchange of fire twice in October of 2014.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANG: We've had it a number of times before. Sometimes these are deadly but the problem is that this time we're breaking a pattern. And when North
Korea breaks a pattern it's doing it for a reason. We don't know that reason yet but that's why I think there's concern until we figure out
what's occurring.
GORANI: So what should we be looking for next? I mean, I suppose, I imagine that presumably if there's anything similar taking place in the
near future that there should be an indication that things really are changing in terms of North Korea's usual pattern of behavior?
CHANG: Yes, you're absolutely right, Hala. Especially because the ongoing military exercises. For North Korea to do something right now is really
unusual and it would really mean that - I think that that would be a sign that really things are breaking down in North Korea.
I'd be looking for more executions, we've heard about the execution of a vice premier last week, that was a surprise. And I'd also be looking for
turbulence between Kim Jong-un and the military. There's been a lot of that over the last year with four star generals being put to death. So if
there's any more of that in the next few weeks, that would of course be a sign that big things are going to deteriorate even further.
[15:10:18] GORANI: Let's talk about the neighborhood finally, Japan, China as well. What calculations are going on there do you think at the
highest levels?
CHANG: Well China right now has - doesn't have very good relations with (Park Geun-hye) at least on a civilian diplomat to diplomat basis. I don't
think that they have much influence there right now.
North Korea generals have maintained some contact with their Chinese counterparts and China might be able to exercise some influence but I sort
of doubt it. And Japan right now is just looking on as an observer, really no influence at all in what's going on in the Korean peninsula. Especially
because of the 70th anniversary at the end of World War II. There's a lot of antagonism right now between Seoul and Tokyo.
GORANI: All right, Gordon Chang, thanks very much for being with us on CNN, I appreciate your time this evening.
CHANG: Thank you.
GORANI: A lot more to come tonight. Courage and grace in the most difficult of circumstances.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Former U.S. President, Jimmy Carter reveals new information about the spread of his cancer, hear what he had to say at The Carter Center,
today.
And the value of oil has been dropping sharply in the last year. Today it came close to the $40 mark. We'll be live with our very own Richard Quest
for more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(END COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: I've had a wonderful life, I'm ready for anything. Those words today from former U.S. President, Jimmy Carter, as he revealed that cancer
first discovered in his liver has now spread to his brain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: He gave a news conference today marked by grace and acceptance saying his fate is in God's hands now. The 90 year Nobel Peace Laureate
will begin radiation treatment immediately today.
Carter faced the diagnosis with courage saying he still has hope for the future. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I do have a deep religious faith which I'm very grateful for and I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't go
into an attitude of despair or anger or anything like that. I was just completely at ease. As Rosalynn would testify it's not as if you have any
(inaudible) but I've just been very grateful for that part of it. So I'm ready for anything and look forward to a new adventure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Jimmy Carter there. Of course he's wildly admired for the humanitarian work he's done since leaving office. He says helping the
world's poorest people has been far more gratifying to him personally than anything in his political career. Although you did make an illusion to not
being re-elected for a second term.
Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is outside the Carter Presidential Center, in Atlanta, Georgia. Sanjay so first of all when I heard the word Melanoma I
immediately associated it with, like most people with skin cancer. How unusual is it to have it in the brain?
[15:15:14] DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CONSULTANT: Well you know what can happen with Melanoma regardless of where it starts is that it can
spread. It can spread to various places inside the body. What we now know is back on August 30 he had this operation where they removed a small mass
from his liver.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. GUPTA: That came back as being Melanoma and now we know that he's got these spots in his brain as well which are also Melanoma. But we're still
not 100% sure where this started. It could have been something that started on the skin a long time ago.
In a very, very small percentage of cases Hala it can start inside the body somewhere as well. The doctors don't know; what they do know is that it is
there and it has spread.
GORANI: And how - I mean how easy or difficult is it to shrink Melanoma on the brain? Is it like a tumor?
DR. GUPTA: It is, it is like a tumor and you know you think about any kind of cancer that may spread around the body, this is sort of the same thing
whether it be breast cancer or prostate, colon, or lung cancer. Melanoma is the type of cancer. What they're going to do specifically for the brain
Hala is they're going to use radiation. They'll give radiation to those areas in the brain that they see and try and shrink them that way.
They've also already started giving him a type of chemotherapy drug which in many ways sort of boosts the body's natural immune system and the body's
own ability to fight cancer. Our bodies are constantly in a battle against cancer. When the cancer takes over it means it's sort of overwhelmed our
immune system. This drug increases the immune system to try and tip the balances again the other way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. GUPTA: So he's going to get both of these drugs now for some time to come.
GORANI: But this was first identified in May and his treatment is only beginning today. Why the delay do you think?
DR. GUPTA: Yes, that's a - that's a great question and you know I did ask a question at the press conference, this is exactly the same question I was
curious about, the timing of things. He was in May on a trip to Ghana which had to be cut short because he wasn't feeling well. When he came
back he got a bunch of scans including an MRI scan which showed this again in May.
But it wasn't until August 3rd. I asked him about this, he said you know they wanted to schedule this, he said he was on a book tour at the time, he
would like to finish the book tour. He also said that his surgeon, the surgeon that was going to perform the operation was on vacation. So the
timing worked out that it would be August 3rd.
I think there is an important message Hala to your point that you know typically you wouldn't want to wait on these sorts of things regardless of
how slow growing you think it might be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. GUPTA: Typically the right course of action is to try and remove these as quickly as possible and diagnose as quickly as possible. But in this
case because of schedules and other things they waited about a couple of months.
GORANI: And I thought it was interesting, he was asked about a scheduled trip to Nepal, and he said yes, I have to kind of look and see if I can
delay my treatment for another five weeks, I'd be quite happy to fit it in if I can. I mean he seems to be in such good spirits and that has to
matter when you're trying to recover or overcome something as serious as cancer.
DR. GUPTA: I think so. And I noticed that as well Hala. You know it was a lighter moment inside the room. Look he's 90 years old and I always say
that chronological age is important but there are 90 year olds who have the physiology if you will of a 60 year old and vice versa.
He's an active guy, I've gotten to know him a little bit over the years, I've been to a baseball game with him. He'll out walk most people that are
half his age. It's pretty remarkable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DR. GUPTA: And you know I was in Nepal not that long ago, he wants to fly into Katmandu and then take a puddle hopper down further south and build
houses for Habitat for Humanity. Again people half his age probably wouldn't have the energy to do that and he wants to do it if he can fit it
in between radiation treatments.
So you know besides that's who he is, it gives you a sense of what he's still hoping for, what he's looking forward to I think over the next
several weeks and months.
GORANI: All right, a remarkable attitude. Thanks very much, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is at the Carter Center in Atlanta.
Concerns are growing tonight about the reach of ISIS after a car bombing near the heart of power in Egypt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The blast targeted a state security building in northern Cairo. At least 29 people were wounded including six police officers. The
explosion could be heard for kilometers waking residents across the city in the middle of the night. We read tweets from people across Cairo saying
just heard a big explosion, just hear rumbles, so it really resonated throughout the capital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: ISIS claimed responsibility in a statement posted on Twitter.
It has been the subject of speculation and treasure hunts for 70 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But now two men in Poland say they have found a legendary Nazi Ghost Train near a castle in the southwest portion of the country. And
they filed a claim for 10% of the value of the discovery.
Many people believe that the Nazis loaded a train with golden treasure as the Red Army advanced in Poland towards the end of World War II but that
the train disappeared and nobody knew where it was and treasure hunters have been looking for it for decades.
[15:20:07] Polish authorities say they are now working to confirm or deny the find.
Coming up, the latest business news including with prices plummeting. Richard Quest tells us what is pushing down the cost of oil.
And as Turks and tourist's party the night away, migrants wait in the shadows hoping to find a smuggler to take them to Europe. A special report
from the resort of Bodrum coming up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(END COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Welcome back, here's a look at what's going on with the Dow Jones. It's down almost 300 points today at 17,062. A quick look at the NASDAQ
and the wider market index, the S&P 500 down as well. And here's Europe for you. Also lower across the board.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The price of U.S. crude oil fell to almost $30 a barrel earlier today. Here's where it stands at the moment, let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: It is trading at $40.94 for Nymex Crude. You see it there down about half a percent. This is how the price has fluctuated during the day,
you can see it started off low, it rebounded, it climbed a little toward the end of the session. But here is where you really see how much the
price has dropped. This is a graph for the last year. You can see where it started at around $90 a barrel and look at where it is now dropping way
down to its current price of around $40.
Let's get more on what this all means. Our very own Richard Quest joins me now live from New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So what is pushing prices down so much Richard?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: It is just a horrible day wherever you look in terms of the financial markets. You just pointed out
the Dow was just about 40/35 minutes from the close and it's falling. They're still off the lows. The lows of the day were down 300 Hala, but
that's the way it is and oil is one of those factors which is pushing into the market throughout the course of the day.
Why is oil - if you look back at that graph that you were showing you saw that it took a tumble from late or mid to late June. And one of the
reasons is falling Chinese demand. The Chinese economy is slowing down. They have been hoarding oil offshore but the reality is with slower growth
there's not the same need.
Hala, we've also got record OPEC production. Remember Saudi refused and has consistently refused as the swing producer to cut back production and
to act as a price support. So with everybody pumping as much as they can and with Iran now coming on stream pumping a great deal or more oil, you
end up with that. And of course you have U.S. inventories increasing as a result of fracking.
This is classic economics 101, Hala. Supply vs. Demand. And at the moment supply is greatly outstripping demand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So let's talk about the countries that maybe very unhappy/worried about what's going on. Namely, of course Saudi Arabia is having to dig
into some of its actual reserves, it's actual financial reserves to make up for this shortfall in the price of the barrel. But also Russia. Already
suffering economically and it is a huge portion of its GDP these oil sales. So I mean you have countries that are going to be going through, yes -
going through a very rough time here.
QUEST: 30 to 40% absolutely and they are screaming because not only do they - you've got Venezuela, you've got Nigeria, you've got Russia, you've
got Kazakhstan which has just revalued its currency because of course oil is sold in dollars, the dollar has risen anyway with economic growth or
with interest rate differentials. All in all all these other countries are now being absolutely clobbered. And with the prospect of higher interest
rates raising the dollar even more, you start to see that the oil producers are in deep trouble.
For example, the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, they are starting to face serious budget deficits from overspending at an oil price where they're
having to revalue future revenues. Remember Hala, they're now saying Kazakhstan said only yesterday they are looking at an oil price of between
$30 to $40 next year.
GORANI: Now the big problem for global equity markets is you know you could look at it two ways; you could say well oil prices are lower it means
that producing goods, the price of that is going to go down so this would be good in terms of competitive - the competitive nature of certain
corporations. But this really is a concern about global growth. That the price of oil is down because global growth is down and therefore equity
markets are panicking.
QUEST: No, I don't buy it - I don't buy that.
GORANI: Well what other reason is there?
QUEST: I don't buy that for one minute, Hala. And yes, there is a question that global, Chinese growth may be down, some parts of Asia may be
down, Europe may be down, but that is not necessarily the main factor.
When you talk about equities and we're seeing particular reasons why today equity markets are down, net - NET the falling price of oil is a benefit to
the western countries indeed to the global economy. It adds more by way of consumer money. It adds more by way of lower costs for capital. It adds
more by way of corporate profits.
GORANI: OK, but yes - but that is if you lower the price of oil and then you factor that into global growth. But if the price of oil is falling
because global growth is sluggish that's just sort of a different cause and - sort of different equation there.
QUEST: No, your - I'm sorry I'm not with you on this one either. That question of global growth slowing down is a small part of the equation.
That is not the main reason. The main reason is the over production. It's the supply side that's got far more relevance here than the demand part of
the equation.
GORANI: All right, Richard Quest, we'll have more on this I'm sure at the top of the hour on Quest Means Business, and I invite our viewers - I
invite our viewers to tweet us, to Facebook us their opinion on what's going on. Do they agree with your analysis, or maybe they agree with mine.
We'll see what they say.
Richard Quest, thanks very much we'll see you in about half an hour on CNN.
Still to come tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: With thousands of migrants coming onto the shores of Southern European countries the entire EU is forced to face the challenge. I will
ask the Swedish Minister of Justice and Migration how his country is shouldering such a huge portion of the (inaudible).
And (bulling) political town halls in New Hampshire. Here what Donald Trump calls his closest rival for the Republican Presidential nomination.
I'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(END COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: A big shake up in the Greek parliament. That's one of our top stories today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: With Alexis Tsipras announcing his resignation from the post of Prime Minister just a few hours ago.
He called for early elections which we expect to be held September 20th. Tsipras says he will seek the Greek people's vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:30:09] GORANI: Also among our top stories, Thai police now say as many as 10 people were involved in Monday's bombing at a Bangkok Shrine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: They're looking for a main suspect described as an unidentified foreigner; 20 people were killed in the attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Tensions are escalating once again on the Korean peninsula.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: South Korea fired several shells across the border after it said the north fired what it appeared to be a missile in its direction.
South Korea's presumption of broadcasting propaganda through loud speakers at the border has infuriated the north and now Jong-un is threatening
military action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The British Home Secretary, Teresa May, and the French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve, have signed an agreement to deal with the
migrant crisis in Calais.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That includes a plan to open a controlling command center run by British and French Police, and May says the center will pursue smuggling
operations very aggressively.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The Turkish coastline has also become the major transit point for migrants trying to reach mainland Europe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Take a look at the map, we've been showing you just how close the Greek Island of Kos is to Bodrum on the Turkish coast. Bodrum is known for
its party atmosphere and carefree lifestyle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But amid the clubs and the bars migrants watch and wait to hear from smugglers who can transport them illegally to Greece.
Arwa Damon has the story from Bodrum.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Their strength zapped, the weak electric motor useless in this night's strong currents. This
group of Pakistani migrants is forced back to shore. They failed and quickly disappear into the hills along with their dingy.
Another group paddles in circles and appears to be stuck but eventually finds the power to break away and is lost in the night.
By day holiday makers enjoy the same beach. For them, the Greek Island destination of Kos is just part of the view, the remnants of the migrants
treacherous journeys liter the shoreline; shoes, clothing, a disguarded dingy. This is just one of the many launch points that surround the
Turkish summer party capital, Bodrum.
Just a two minute walk from one of the main party streets with its shops and bars the screaming music of the Marina disco the migrants wait for the
smugglers to call. We haven't decided if we're going to cross yet one Syrian woman says. The smugglers keep telling us to wait.
It was the flow of Syrians that turned this Turkish coastline into a major transit for migrants. Some from as far away as Myanmar. The migrants
anxiously huddle in small groups, sleep next to their life vests in dimly lit alleys, side streets and parks.
Mohammad who doesn't want his identity revealed out of safety concerns for his family arrived a week ago from Syria.
ISIS detained us for two days he says, they wanted us to confess that we were coming to Turkey to be trained to fight against them. After enduring
beatings he says he was finally released.
His friend (Nor) has tried to make the trip to Greece five times. The smugglers are just mocking us he says. Three times the Turkish coastguard
caught them. Twice the boat started sinking and they had to swim for shore. But Europe and all the promises a new life there holds continues to
lure them to these waters.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Bodrum Turkey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well there's no doubt that the migrant crisis facing Europe is a continent wide problem. The numbers show that some countries are doing
more than their share.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The countries are arranged by size from left to right. The graph shows the number of asylum places each country granted for one million
people.
Sweden has granted the largest number of asylum applications relative to its small population of about 9.6 million.
Germany's population is more than eight times the size of Sweden but you can see it only granted 666 applications per million people over the last
year and it is the second most generous in Europe so it gives you a sense.
Our data comes from the World Bank and the European Commission. Let's talk more about the case of Sweden and the migrant crisis, I'm joined from
Stockholm by Morgan Johannson he's the Swedish Minister of Justice and Migration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Thank you sir for being with us. First I've got to ask you for your reaction as the Swedish Minister for Migration and Justice to what's
going on in Kos. And the idea there was chaos initially, they brought in this ship to process the refugees and the asylum seekers. What do you
think of that as a solution?
MORGAN JOHANNSON, SWEDISH MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND MIGRATION: Well what we are seeing is a humanitarian crisis in a very large scale. I visited
(Jordan 11) in Spring and the U.N. personnel there said that this, what is happening in Syria now is the worst humanitarian crisis in our time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:35:14] JOHANNSON: And almost half of the population of Syria is fleeing from their country, 12 million people. And of course that is what
we are seeing - what we are seeing now. At that time 8 million people were still in Syria, 4 million has been who could have come out of Syria and
then many of them to Turkey. And now some of them, many of them have been able to reach the shores of Greece.
So that is - that is the scale of the crisis right now and I think that Europe could cope with this situation. I mean we are - we are a country
with 500 million people. We are quite a rich continent. We could if we really share the responsibility here actually cope with this situation and
save people's lives.
GORANI: All right, you've actually said about Britain and France and their management of the migrant crisis in Calais that they're not taking
responsibility. Essentially saying they're playing politics.
Today the Interior Ministers of both countries announced basically what is a security plan to secure the border. What do you make of what was
announced in Calais today?
JOHANNSON: Well I think it's - we have to solve this among our countries and in a way that we share the responsibility instead of trying to pass the
hot potato around among ourselves. And I think that more countries should do more to grant permission to the people who are now fleeing for their
lives from the war. And of course that goes for many countries in Europe.
We've had an embryo of such a corporation within the European Counsel and the Ministers now saying that we are trying to redistribute some of the
migrants from Italy and Greece, we're talking about 40,000. But we need to do a lot more - a lot more than that to solve the situation in Greece and
Italy.
GORANI: But Minister, do you still believe Britain and France are not taking responsibility? Today they did not announce a plan to relocate
migrants, they announced a plan to secure the border and add police at the border.
JOHANNSON: Yes, and I saw that - for instance when we met in Brussels in summer, the UK didn't want to be a part of such a solution, they didn't
want to be a part of redistribution from Italy and Greece, there was zero on their - on their - when they - when we asked - when the other countries
asked them to take some of their refugees there.
So that's just - that's my point. We - if we're going to solve this, all countries must do more and U.K. must do more, France must do more of
course, Poland must do more, and many other countries because Sweden and Germany that now takes huge responsibility right now, we can do that now we
can cope but we cannot cope forever with this. Some - other countries must help us here.
GORANI: Now the UNHCR Head, Antonio Guterres even commended your country, Sweden. You have the highest number of asylum seekers per capita. Germany
is taking in tens of thousands but as you mentioned other European countries are not.
When you look at the numbers there were more refugees than political asylum seekers after the Balkan wars in the early 90s in Europe than there are
today. So these numbers are historically not even as high as they've ever been.
So let me ask you as the Minister for Migration and Justice. Why is that right now? Why is there such a reluctance in Europe?
JOHANNSON: Well I think it's sometimes it has to do with political leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHANNSON: There has to be politicians that can face their voters and say that this is actually a responsibility now for us that we should be able to
step up to. Of course it will cost money here with we must also it as an investment because Europe is also an aging continent. We need more people
to work in Europe, we need more people in the age of - in productive ages so to speak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHANNSON: So immigration seen - from that point of view actually could be beneficial for Europe. So...
GORANI: I see that but you have some ...
JOHANNSON: ... that is in basic - that is in basic a question about political leadership in many countries.
GORANI: And, but I mean I'm sure you saw the news about Slovakia over the last 24 hours what their officials are saying. OK, we'll take 200 migrants
but they have to be Christian because we don't have mosques. When you hear statements like that coming from some of European - of your colleagues in
the European Union, what do you think of that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:40:10] JOHANNSON: Well we should not have a policy - policies like that. We have to see - to see every human being as a human being and
treated as such. And as a matter of fact it is a human right to apply for asylum if you are - if you're fleeing from the war. And what is happening
now in Syria is one as I said, one of the worst humanitarian crisis' that we've seen for many, many years.
So it's very - it's very important actually to stick with what we have said both in the documents from the European Union. I mean the European Union
is about responsibility and solidarity and to share the responsibility among ourselves. And that must go for this issue too.
GORANI: Morgan Johannson the Minister for Justice and Migration for Sweden. As we mentioned Sweden is the country that per capita has taken in
the most asylum seekers in Europe and refugees.
Thanks very much for joining us we appreciate your time this evening from Stockholm.
And to you watching us at home you can always go in on Facebook and weigh on this interview or any of the other stories we've been covering. We've
been covering this migrant crisis a lot. Facebook.com/halagoranicnn. You can also find a selection of our interview highlights there.
This is The World Right Now. Coming up -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Donald Trump has some harsh words for his political opponents. We'll tell you what he had to say about Hilary Clinton.
And it's a theme park not as you know it. Elusive street artist Banksy opens up his latest exhibition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(END COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: One is an establishment darling, the other a popular rogue. Republican Presidential hopefuls Jeb Bush and Donald Trump had dualing town
halls in the battleground state of New Hampshire, Wednesday.
Bush altered his tone attacking the frontrunner's conservative record. Trump stuck to his guns calling Bush low energy and basically unelectable.
Trump saved some harsh works for a Democratic rival as well. You may have heard CNN's in-depth interview with Trump last hour. Here's a clip from
that conversation when Chris Cuomo asked him about the email controversy dogging Hilary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes I think it's devastating for the election but I think her bigger problem is not the
election. I think her bigger problem is going to be the criminal problem.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Really, you really think that this could turn out to be a criminal situation for Hilary Clinton
'cause there's no reference of that from the investigators right now.
TRUMP: I don't think I'm the only one. I mean the FBI's involved, they only do criminal, I don't think I'm the only one. Now maybe it's somebody
in her staff. But look, it's either criminal or it's incompetence. There's either gross incompetence or criminal and neither's acceptable to
be President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:45:06] GORANI: For more on Donald Trump and the other candidates in the 2016 race for the White House I'm joined by Executive Editor of CNN
Politics, Mark Preston. What's going here so now Trump is taking aim at Hilary Clinton. We saw some polls, the latest in fact CNN ORC poll putting
Donald Trump against Hilary Clinton and the gap there is narrowing, he's closing in on Hilary Clinton in a one on one dual.
MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CNN POLITICS: He is in this latest CNN ORC International Poll Hala shows that Donald Trump is now six points behind
Hilary Clinton. If you put that in perspective he was down 20 points in one of our previous polls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESTON: So Donald Trump is certainly making up ground. You know what's interesting about Donald Trump here in the United States is that he has
said a lot of things that might have sunk another person's candidacy. Very harsh criticism of an anchor who hosted the first debate for another
network here in the U.S., very harsh criticism of her. We thought that that might hurt him, it certainly would have hurt another candidate, but in
fact it has only strengthened him at this point.
In addition he's also called into question John McCain who was captured as a PoW during the Vietnam War, we thought that would hurt Donald Trump, in
fact it has strengthened him as well.
So Donald Trump certainly the leader at this point in the campaign but there's a lot of road ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, let's talk a little bit about this interview with Chris Cuomo because in the beginning of this campaign he was deemed unelectable,
we described many - we did not but some analysts described it as a sideshow and a distraction. But he was saying pretty controversial and sometimes
outrageous things and not asked to defend these positions.
Today Chris Cuomo asked him specifically about - or yesterday, it aired today on CNN International, about some of his proposals. This is what he
said about how he would lead the military if he's elected President, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: (Video) I think one of the things I noticed in your poll I came out way, way ahead of everybody on the economy and a lot of people weren't
surprised to see that. But I also came way out ahead on the military.
CUOMO: And ISIS specifically.
TRUMP: And ISIS. I think that I will be a great sleeper on the military because people wouldn't think it's my strength but I think it would be one
of my strengths. I want to build up our military, I want to have such an incredible military that nobody's going to play games with us, nobody's
going to mess with us and hopefully we won't ever have to use our military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right so Mark, he says these things, they're still lacking in specifics but this is - this is - I mean is this part of his appeal here as
well?
PRESTON: Well it certainly to a certain segment of the Republican party right now which we're looking at about 25% of those who are supporting him
now like what Trump is saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESTON: And to your point, he's not saying much when it comes to specific policy proposals. In fact the only real specific policy proposal we've
heard out of Donald Trump has to do with immigration and how he would secure the border and how he would take the 11 million plus illegal
immigrants who are currently here in the United States and send them back to Mexico and Central America, at least that's what he says.
But to your point when our international viewers are watching this around the world and certainly Heads of State around the world, you have to start
wondering when Donald Trump is talking about the military, that means Foreign Policy and where's he on specific key issues that are certainly
first and forefront, over here in the United States but certainly around the - you know around the globe.
GORANI: Right absolutely, Mark Preston, thanks very much I appreciate you coming on this evening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And coming up we take a first look inside the new theme park open by graffiti artist, Banksy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: It is very, shall we say, different. We'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(END COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:20] GORANI: Britain's newest theme park will open its doors on Friday but it will be a little different than others. Dismaland is the
concept of the elusive street artist Banksy and features among other things a decrepit castle, model boats on a pool full of refugees. A warning that
Robyn Kriel's report contains some flashing imagery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBYN KRIEL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Europe's horsemeat scandal, the migrant boat crisis, life in a police state. Welcome to Dismaland.
This is no ordinary art show.
Well after months of anticipation Banksy's biggest exhibition to date a play on Walt Disney's Disneyland.
Inside Cinderella's crash carriage the princess surrounded by paparazzi. The piece speaks of shattered dreams of wannabe princesses and today's
hungry celebrity pop culture.
Social issues of corruption, injustice and politics at the forefront. Challenging our ideas, provoking discussion and arguments. Featuring
artists such as Banksy himself as elusive and anonymous as ever cementing his status as a key player on the global art stage right next to big names
like Damien Hurst.
Californian Jeff Gillette says he's never met Banksy and was contacted by the Gorilla artists' people via Facebook and invited to participate.
JEFF GILLETTE, ARTIST: It's more you've got to go in there and experience and think and wonder, and maybe get mad, or maybe laugh, and that's all
here. That's deeper entertainment than I think any other theme park would have.
The bemusement park is also meant to be interactive and experiential.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we think is that we're going to be turned upside down in some weird and wonderful way.
KRIEL: With rides, carnival competitions, and the controversial migrant boat crisis turned into a bumper game.
There is nothing light-hearted or simple here. Dismaland is the tragic end of a fairy tale rather than its beginning.
Robyn Kriel, CNN Weston-Super-Mare, England.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right let's get more on the intriguing character that is Banksy, I'm joined now in the studio by Naveed Saddiqui, he's the director
of the gallery, Graphic London. Is it Graffik or Graffik?
NAVEED SADDIQUI, DIRECTOR, GRAPHIC LONDON: Graffik.
GORANI: Graphic, two fs IK.
SADDIQUI: Two fs IK, that's right.
GORANI: Thanks for being - so this Dismaland, the concept, it's not street art. Banksy himself says it's not street art. Why go in that direction do
you think for an artist like him?
SADDIQUI: Well I think you know he's brought sort of street art into the mainstream and now it's sort of time to kind of develop that genre into
sort of something - something else.
GORANI: And he's not the only artist there. You commissioned about 55/58 other artists.
SADDIQUI: That's right.
GORANI: You have things like a mangled Cinderella, migrant ships on pools.
SADDIQUI: That's right.
GORANI: The overturned pumpkin carriage of Cinderella. I mean this is not for children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADDIQUI: No that's right, it's sort of yes, exactly. It's pop art but for adults. Pop urban art for adults.
GORANI: And to make you think of very contemporary themes, migrants, paparazzi, that kind of thing.
SADDIQUI: Absolutely, absolutely.
GORANI: Let's talk about Banksy a little bit 'cause your gallery sells Banksy prints, right?
SADDIQUI: That's right and originals some times.
GORANI: And originals some times. And what you're show - and I didn't know that this in fact that even when you buy a print, let's see if we can
- if we can show this to our viewers, you get a Certificate of Authenticity.
SADDIQUI: That's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This is to prove that this is an authentic Banksy print right. And this piece of paper was ripped so that the second half is where?
SADDIQUI: Second half is with Pest Control who authenticate his prints.
Now anyone who steals a Banksy print would find it very difficult to sell it because it wouldn't have you know the appropriate paperwork. And for
example if this got stolen from our gallery then we would report it to Pest Control and then they would put sort of a black mark. So this one is
number 278 of 750. And so if this had been lost or stolen then we would report this as lost or stolen.
GORANI: Now but the primary mission of Banksy is street art.
SADDIQUI: That's right.
GORANI: I mean he's been to Gaza, I mean he's done things loaded with political meaning as well.
SADDIQUI: Absolutely.
GORANI: Those are never for sale by him?
SADDIQUI: Those are - some people have sort of obtained street pieces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADDIQUI: You know whether they've legally obtained them or illegally obtained them that's a fine line, that's a question to be sort of
(inaudible).
GORANI: But he's not involved in the sale?
SADDIQUI: No, he's not involved.
GORANI: It's whoever finds and maybe claims ownership of that property.
SADDIQUI: Precisely.
GORANI: Right.
SADDIQUI: But he will never issue a certificate for one of the street pieces because you know the idea of street art is that it is for everyone
to look at and share and enjoy. So that's why Pest Control doesn't ever authenticate a street piece.
[15:55:11] GORANI: Who is Banksy? I mean this is just the most elusive character in the art world or frankly in any - in any sort of industry or
line of work.
SADDIQUI: Of course, of course. I mean his anonymity started because of course he was creating street pieces, he was spraying graffiti, so that you
know certain councils' wanted to maybe arrest him, there were warrants of arrest out for him. So he decided to go underground. And once he did that
sort of the mystique around him developed and that sort of created you know sort of a value and a mystery around him.
GORANI: Is it one person? Some people are saying it might be several people.
SADDIQUI: Well I'm pretty sure it's one person but you know who knows.
GORANI: Let me talk about this here because you brought some interesting - and he's inspired other artists, I mean that's kind of part of his legacy
as well.
SADDIQUI: Absolutely. I think if it wasn't for Banksy possibly we as a gallery would not be sort of existing either because Banksy certainly gave
rise to street art and brought the street art into sort of mainstream.
Auction houses who we work with like (inaudible) they are also sort of now.
GORANI: Talk to me about this here.
SADDIQUI: Sure, so these are (Clyde Abraham). (Clyde Abraham) is coming to Graffik gallery in October. So artists like this also in a sense owe
him, owe Banksy for sort of giving rise to their work because (Clyde Abraham) post these stickers on lampposts and street signs all over the
world.
GORANI: Yes, and you've seen, you've seen some of these street signs as well that have been altered by other street artists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SADDIQUI: Absolutely.
GORANI: Naveed Saddiqui, good luck.
SADDIQUI: Thank you very much.
GORANI: And thanks for coming on of Graffik London, the gallery in London here in the British capital, thanks for coming on.
This has been The World Right Now, I'm Hala Gorani, Quest Means Business is up next.
END
