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Hala Gorani Tonight
The Battle for Kunduz. Aired 3-4p ET.
Aired September 29, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:08]
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HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight -- the battle for Kunduz.
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GORANI: Afghan troops are trying to recapture a key city from the Taliban, with help from U.S. air strikes.
Plus, this hour, U.S. President Barack Obama takes the fight against extremists to the top of the U.N's agenda. What ideas were discussed.
Also, Volkswagen unveiled its new plan to refit millions of cars after an emission scandal. Will the new measures be enough to win back consumer
trust?
And South African comic Trevor Noah takes the helm of "The Daily Show." We'll look at when he was able to fill Jon Stewart's very big shoes.
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(GORANI)
Hello, everyone, I'm Hala Gorani. We're live at CNN London. Welcome, everybody. Thanks for being with us this hour. This is "The World Right
Now."
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GORANI: We begin with a major counteroffensive under way in Afghanistan to retake a key strategic city from the Taliban. Militants stormed the
northern provincial capital of Kunduz on Monday. They captured it in less than a day. Their first major achievement in that regard since 2001.
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GORANI: And now according to Reuters there is an intense fight for control of the city's airport. As Lynda Kinkade reports the Taliban's stunning
victory raises some serious questions about the capability of government forces.
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Afghan security forces backed by U.S. air power fight to retake Kunduz one day after the city fell
into the hands of Taliban insurgents.
Residents (inaudible) the area's troops and security forces moved in and U.S. Forces launched their first air strike, hitting Taliban positions on
the outskirts of the city. That's according to a NATO spokesman.
Kunduz is the largest city to be overrun by the Taliban since 2001 and a major setback for President Ashraf Ghani who came to power just a year ago.
In a nationally televised speech Ghani tried to reassure Afghans saying government forces had already recaptured some parts of the city.
MOHAMMAD ASHRAF GHANI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN: (As translated) I want to assure all of my countrymen that Kunduz is under our management. Therefore,
we should not be worried about enemy plans of fearing steer in the area.
KINKADE: Ghani said the military efforts had been handed by the Taliban using civilians as human shields but said the enemy was suffering heavy
casualties.
After hundreds of Taliban prisoners escaped in a massive jailbreak on Monday night, Afghan officials say government forces had retaken the city
prison and police headquarters less than 24 hours later. But the sudden fall of the city has raised questions over how ready Afghan forces were to
tackle Islamist insurgents alone. And many Afghans are now afraid that Kunduz could be the first of many cities to fall to the Taliban.
We are concerned in Kunduz goes, then there's the possibility that very soon other provinces will fall into the hands of the Taliban and our people
and other countries will fall to the crisis and there will be misery.
KINKADE: U.S. Officials are keeping an eye on the fighting roughly 10,000 American troops remain in Afghanistan. Most are due to come home by the end
of next year. But the battle for Kunduz could impact those plans.
Lynda Kinkade, CNN.
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GORANI: Our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has extensively covered the war in Afghanistan. He's at CNN Center. Let's get
more on this with Nick. Let me ask you first about the government force's inability there to protect Kunduz? It seems as though a very, very intense
battle is going on to take it back from the Taliban what went wrong here?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well I think if you look historically at where the Americans put the resources, put the
logistics in, they were dependent, the Afghan military on the Americans micromanaging that chain of food, weapons, ammunition to the front line. We
spoke to a soldier actually who fled to Europe recently who'd been on that frontline saying they didn't have fuel, they didn't have fuel, bullets when
they needed them.
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WALSH: So it could be a supply issue, certainly now the air strikes in the skies above those Afghan security forces that could facilitate the fight to
take the city back. But it comes down to also potentially the dysfunctionality of the Afghan government.
Ashraf Ghani, the President, a very competent statesman, good technocrat, but he doesn't have a defense minister, he's sharing the government with a
person he fought an election against. So a real issue there in terms of how speedily things can get done in terms of decisions being activated, Hala.
GORANI: And let's talk a little bit about the options that the government has. In just a moment we'll be running an interview that I conducted with
the spokesperson for Ashraf Ghani, but what options here? Are they going to have to rely on the Americans to help with air strikes and perhaps more?
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WALSH: Well I think some of the feeling is if the Afghan national security forces throw everything they have at this they can probably take Kunduz
back to some degree.
But it's the period of time that its effectively fallen under Taliban control. Now bear in mind we say control of areas, well the Taliban sort of
shadow of governance in many - at least the American parliaments, often means they do have a lot of say and control in vast amounts of Afghan
territories. The government sort of been there often symbolically. But I think the options they have are limited. If they can get it back in the
days ahead that will at least stem the nature of this Taliban victory but it does a huge thing for the potential for peace talks. Why talk peace when
you can simply take cities if you're the Taliban.
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WALSH: And does a lot of good for their new leader Mullah Mansour, after Mullah Omar was dead for months they kept that quiet. Debate about whether
they're all united behind Mullah Mansour and here he has a very strategic victory to say I'm the man to lead you forward, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Nick Paton Walsh is live at the CNN center. Thanks very much.
The Taliban are urging the Afghan government to accept what they call the bitter reality of our victory. But President Muhammad Ashraf Ghani says
security forces are prepared to make any sacrifice to defeat their enemies. We'll see if that works out.
Earlier I spoke about the battle about Kunduz with the President's deputy spokesman, Syed Zafar Hashemi.
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SYED ZAFAR HASHEMI, AFGHAN PRESIDENT's DEPUTY SPOKESMAN: If deployed the necessary forces in the city and to we have already started taking our key
governmental buildings and its progress on our side and tourists are being kept out of the city.
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GORANI: How did this happen? This is a major setback for your government. A huge Taliban victory. The first time the Taliban takes such an important
strategic asset since 2001. What went wrong here?
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HASHEMI: Terrorists groups have entered in the city, using, you know civilians and civilian clothing. And what happened, basically, they were
using human shields in the city, and this was the nighttime so the Afghan government, but it's commitment that we will try everything possible in our
hands to prevent civilian casualties.
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GORANI: Right. But people are looking at the situation in Afghanistan. They're saying the U.S. Military and coalition forces have trained the
Afghan army, billions of dollars in western aid has poured into Afghanistan. All of this so that 14 years after 2001, the Taliban re-take
back a major strategic city. And they're saying that this is an embarrassment for the government of President Ghani. How do you react to
that?
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HASHEMI: Let's get things in perspective. Right now, the Afghan national security and defense forces are fighting international terrorism and
international terrorist groups in 13 fronts in the country, in 13 provinces in the country. And we never allowed these terrorist groups who came from
different countries namely, Pakistan, China, Central Asia and the Middle East. And they are going into remote territory in Afghanistan in order to
test our patience and try to stretch us thin, but that is not happening.
So I think it's a, you know, the achievement of the Afghan national security and defense forces are remarkable. And this is not something that
we could claim, but rather have been appreciated by it and including the U.S. and other European allies of Afghanistan. Because remember, last year,
we had 120,000 foreign forces in Afghanistan, helping the Afghan security forces defend the country. But now, it's all us.
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GORANI: Sayid Zafar Hashemi, is the deputy a spokesperson for the President Ashraf Ghani reacting there to as we mentioned this stunning defeat for the
government the loss of Kunduz.
Let's talk a little bit about the effort to tackle radicalization in western countries. The U.S. President Barack Obama hosted a summit on ISIS
and the threat from foreign fighters today on the sidelines of U.N. General Assembly. Mr. Obama says he's optimistic that ISIS can be defeated because
it's surrounded by countries that are, "committed to its destruction."
PRESIDENT OBAMA: We're stepping up our efforts to discredit ISIL's propaganda especially online. The UAE new messaging hub, the Sawab Center
is exposing ISIL for what it is, which is a band of terrorists that kills innocent Muslim men, women and children.
We're working to lift up the voices of Muslim scholars clerics and others including ISIL defectors who courageous stand up to ISIL and its warped
interpretations of Islam.
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GORANI: British Prime Minister David Cameron echoed the President's comments. He said it is time for the west to "root out the extremist
preachers that are poisoning the minds of young Muslims." It is undeniable however the military gains this group is making. It is undeniable as well
that a very small group of young Muslim, mainly men, it is serving as a recruitment tool. Robyn Curnow is covering the U.N. General Assembly for us
and joins me now from the United Nations.
Let's talk a little - you spoke with John Kirby, the spokesperson for the state department, about whether or not Bashar al Assad could be considered
or used as some sort of partner in the fight against is in Syria. What did he tell you about that?
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN REPORTER: Hi there, Hala, indeed. I mean some very interesting positions emerging here at the U.N. in the last two day. And of
course, the U.S. position and President Obama has reiterated it -- reiterated it more than once that you know Bashar al Assad has to go.
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CURNOW: That he's a tyrant. And John Kirby repeated that to me. Take a listen, and then I'm going to talk about it in its wider context.
JOHN KIRBY, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: It is the Assad Regime in our view that is a magnet for terrorism, has permitted and allowed ISIL to
fester and grow inside that country. And he cannot be, Bashar al Assad a credible partner in going after ISIL inside Syria.
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CURNOW: OK, so you're hearing him there being sort of tough on Bashar al Assad has to go. But what he did concede, Mr. Kirby conceded that there
needs to be some sort of political mechanism as Mr. Obama calls it. Some sort of managed transition.
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CURNOW: And he kind of agreed with me that this would be the wiggle room, perhaps, for some sort of diplomatic compromise for the brass tacks as he
said, of diplomacy to be worked out with Russia. And that's also where these positions are interesting Hala, is that very clearly Mr. Obama saying
twice in the last 48 hours, that, you know let's be realistic, he's willing to work with Russian and Iran on some of these issues.
So it's going to be interesting to see just if there is any overlap and also then of course how its spun because is this case of the Americans
being put in a corner by the Russians.
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CURNOW: Mr. Kirby said no. But still, you know Mr. Putin is pushing the projection that he's a statesman.
GORANI: I was going to - I was going to say I mean those are two contradictory messages from one official you hear in the case of John
Kirby, Assad can't be part of a solution to defeat ISIS. On the other, you hear from the President we're willing to speak to some of our potentially -
- some of the regional powers like Iran and Russia on Syria.
Those are not - those are exact - they're not just -- they're contradictory. They're in exact opposition to each other. So what is the
U.S. Foreign policy here?
CURNOW: Well, I think what is very interesting it that there appears to be a shift. And what I understand, you know John Kerry, is having some very
tough meetings with people as well. And there is the sense, I mean one official was saying, it's a bit like, the Americans are trying to herd cats
and what they're trying to do is perhaps bring in one spectrum of very you know, very anti-Assad countries and try and bring them towards, you know
closer to the pro-Assad countries.
So you -- I agree with you. I mean there does seem to be conflicting and contradictory positions here. And I kept on pushing Mr. Kirby, saying you
know is this a softening, a move - a shift from the U.S. position? And I think whatever - you know whichever way you spin it, the Americans are now
trying to figure out whether it's belatedly, or whether they're surprised about it figure out if there is some sort of compromise to be made.
You know Mr. Obama saying repeatedly this is about a diplomatic solution. Is there one? I don't know.
GORANI: All right, well we'll see how it pans out and in the end who ends upholding all the cards in this particular case. Robyn Curnow is at the
U.N. General Assembly, thanks very much, in New York.
Now, speaking of regional turmoil in the Middle East there's no end to the supply of it, it seems.
Saudi Arabia is now denying involvement in a bombing that killed at least 131 people at a wedding party in Yemen.
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GORANI: Witnesses say air strikes poured through wedding tents yesterday, near the port city of Mocha, you can see of the aftermath there. It's
amateur footage. These are the first pictures we're receiving from the scene. Medics is a many women and children are among the dead. Saudi Arabia
says its coalition against Yemen's Horthy rebels have not launched any air strikes in that area for days. It is contradicted by witnesses on the
ground.
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GORANI: A lot more to come. A company in crisis.
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GORANI: Ready the plan of action. We'll tell you about Volkswagen's next move. Stay with us.
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GORANI: Here's a thought. If you were the head of Volkswagen, what would you do?
The world's biggest carmaker says it is preparing a fix to refit cars affected by a massive emissions scandal.
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GORANI: The plan would "correct the emissions characteristics on as many as 5 million diesel cars worldwide." And you will recall the company is
accused of basically cheating on these tests. Installing software to evade pollution tests in as many as 11 million cars.
The company says though the fix is not a recall. Even with this plan, the company says it is taking many more measures to deal with the overall
scandal.
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GORANI: Let's break it down, CNN money correspondent, Paul La Monica joins me now live from New York. Let's discuss this. So educate me, what is the
difference between a refit and a recall?
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think Volkswagen is playing a little bit of games with semantics. I wonder if there's a significant
difference between the words "refit" and "recall" in German. But what's really going to happen here is that eventually, VW customers of these
diesel vehicles as well Audi, and Skoda, some of the other brands affected they're going to find out what they need to do to bring that car back in
and get the new software, because it was software the so called defeat device that was the big problem here.
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LA MONICA: We still have to wait a couple of weeks, Volkswagen said that it's probably going to be sometime in October that customers will find out
for certain what they need to do next.
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GORANI: All right. By the way, while you - while you were talking to us, I checked to see if there's a difference in the translation of the words.
"recall" is -- [ speaking foreign language ] and "refit" is -- [ speaking foreign language ] So I think those two things are entirely different
words.
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GORANI: There are a few (inaudible) in there. But of course the big question is going to be will regulators be happy with this? Because this
was a cheating scandal. I mean this was done if it's proven by prosecutors, willfully inside the company. So will regulators in the United States
accept this fix?
LA MONICA: I think we need to see if the fix actually does fix things. Because keep in mind, it was U.S. regulators that first noticed that VW was
running afoul of clean air act laws. So if VW actually does its job and these diesel vehicles now pass the emissions standards legitimately, then
hopefully, then regulators will give a green light to that. But that's not going to stop the litany of lawsuits that have piled up against the
company. There are criminal investigations against former CEO Martin Winterkorn in Germany, that's not going to magically go away.
So this is a company that still has a credibility problem. New CEO, Mattias Mueller, he really needs to have hiss sort of Mary Bara moment, the CEO of
GM. I think she did an admiral job of cleaning up and owning up to the problems that GM had last year with a much more significant in some
respects recall crisis. `Cause you had people that died because of problems with GM vehicles. Not cheating which was the case here.
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GORANI: Yes, exactly. I was going to say, is there a distinction here in the minds of investors -- because the stock was pummeled. Is there a
distinction the minds of investors that this was cheating on an emissions test which didn't affect safety of the vehicle and perhaps what happened
with GM and the ignition issues?
LA MONICA: I think it might possibly be easier for VW to recover if they do give a legitimate fix and own up to their mistakes and offer a full
apology. Because you don't have, as of yet, any allegations of people being hurt.
I do think that one thing that people aren't talking about as much is that there could be some consequences we don't really know about. These diesel
cars that people bought, they were supposed to be as good for the environment. They haven't been as good for the environment. So maybe there
are some health effects that are a little bit more difficult to ascertain immediately. Because we're not talking about a person getting hurt or worse
in an actual car crash.
VW really has a problem. A stain on its reputation that it's going to have to clean up.
GORANI: Yes. All right, and top managers are going to have to prove they didn't know about it as well. Thanks very much, Paul La Monica in New York.
LA MONICA: Thank you.
GORANI: Well he was once one of world football's highest ranking officials now he's been banned from the game for life.
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GORANI: The ex-FIFA Vice President, Jack Warner was given the punishment by his former employers. It follows corruption allegations, as well as fraud
charges linked to a U.S. investigation.
So there it is, the end of the road for Jack Warner.
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GORANI: Edward Snowden leaked thousands of classified documents but now he's posting 140 characters or less.
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GORANI: The former U.S. government contractor has joined twitter, everybody. And let me check to see how many followers he has, if someone
could let me know.
I think it was a -- oh, wow, so it was 145,000 the last time I checked and we're over 400,000 right now for Edward Snowden. His first tweet read,
simply, can you hear me now?
Snowden's profile says I used to work for the government now I work for the public but don't expect a follow back any time soon. Snowden is only
following one account, the NSA, the organization whose documents he leaked.
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GORANI: All right, coming up after a break, the dramatic rescue from Iraq's Mount Sinjar symbolized the sheer terror of an ISIS (inaudible).
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GORANI: Now, a year later, CNN catches up with this Yazidi girl, to find out how she's doing.
And the battle against the Taliban enters a new generation. We speak to the former British ambassador to Afghanistan about how he believes the group
can still be defeated.
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GORANI: We want to bring you a follow-up now to heart wrenching story we covered here on CNN.
You may remember last year, the Iraqi military rescued Yazidi's under siege by ISIS on Mount Sinjar. The crying girl in a purple shirt came to
symbolize that ordeal. Our Ivan Watson caught up with her to find out how she's doing now.
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IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was a rescue from hell, in the mad dash to climb on board a flight for safety, families scramble to
stay together. These desperate people spent nine days trapped on a barren mountain under siege from ISIS militants who chased them from their home.
Amid the chaos and gunfire, terror frozen on the face of a girl in purple. 14-year-old Aziza Hamed. More than a year later, we found Aziza and her
family in this refugee camp in Iraqi Kurdistan.
I'm looking forward to this, we're going to meet some old friends that we encountered in very dramatic circumstances more than a year ago, and
they're right up here.
How are you?
Aziza and her 18-year-old sister Dunya are here along with the elder brother Thabit, his wife and his children. Their situation now much better
than the unfinished construction site where they lived for the first seven months after ISIS made them flee their homes.
The girls tell me they go to school here, and they say the camp has started to feel like home.
Aziza, you've gotten a little taller than Dunya since I saw you last.
But it does not take long for terrible memories to re-surface? What's making you sad right now?
When I see you Aziza says, I remember what happened.
DUNYA HAMID, RESCUED FROM MOUNT SINAJ: We saw ISIS with our own eyes. How they were capturing people. If we drove down the wrong road that day, we
would have ended up in ISIS hands. But we took a different road and made it to the mountain.
WATSON: In the years since their narrow escape, their father's health has deteriorated, and he can no longer walk. No one knows what happened to two
elder brothers who were captured by ISIS last year and haven't been heard from since. And another brother, 23-year-old Karem smuggled himself to
Europe on the migrant trail taken by so many other people fleeing the Middle East.
Hey Karem.
KAREM HAMID: Hello.
WATSON: Hey how are you? Where are you?
HAMID: Deutschland
WATSON: Germany?
HAMID: Yeah.
WATSON: I asked Karem if he misses Iraq.
KAREM HAMID: (As translated) No, that's gone. Iraq has gone for me. I lost it. I want to build a new future for myself. There's no future in Iraq.
WATSON: That hopelessness shared by so many people we talked to in refugee camps in Northern Iraq, where people like Aziza and Dunya's older brother
Thabit, still struggle to deal with the trauma they endured.
I just want to start a new life, he says, and I want my family to stay safe and stay together.
One of the few times 15-year-old Aziza really smiles is when I ask her what she'd like to do to the men from ISIS who attacked her family.
I would stomp on their heads and kill them, she said.
This girl may have escaped to live another day, but her innocence has been forever lost.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Iraqi Kurdistan
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GORANI: Still ahead. Heavy pressure on Afghanistan's President.
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GORANI: The Taliban have conquered a major city. And the escalating threat of ISIS as well. We speak to the former British Ambassador to Afghanistan
about what the future may hold. Stay with us.
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GORANI: Welcome back. A look at our top stories this hour. There are reports of more ongoing violence in the Afghan city of Kunduz.
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GORANI: Taliban militants stormed the city which is north of the country. You see it there highlighted on the map on Monday. They took over
government buildings. They freed hundreds of prisoners. Kunduz is a major strategic achievement for the Taliban. It's their biggest gain since 2001.
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GORANI: Also among our top stories. The American President, Barack Obama, says Syria needs a new leader to bring the country together and end the
civil war.
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GORANI: It's a point of view we've heard many times before from the President. He was hosting a summit on ISIS and violent extremism today at
the United Nations.
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GORANI: Also among the stories we're keeping an eye on; the Iranian President has returned to Tehran for the repatriation of Iranian Hajj
pilgrims who were killed in last week's stampede. Hassan Rouhani is blaming Saudi Arabia. He is calling it incompetence and mismanagement. At least 769
600 people were killed, more than 200 of those who died were from Iran.>
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GORANI: The ex-FIFA President jack Warner has been banned for life.
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GORANI: He's been at the center of corruption allegations as well as fraud charges linked to a U.S. investigation. This follows the opening of
criminal proceedings in Switzerland against Sepp Blatter the head of FIFA.
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GORANI: Now back to the top story.
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GORANI: The Afghan spread Ashraf Ghani says security forces are making progress he says in their fight to retake Kunduz from the Taliban but he
explained why insurgents are making it difficult. Listen.
GHANI: (As translated) the problem is that the treacherous enemy is using civilians as human shields. The Afghan government is a responsible
government so it cannot carry out air strikes against its own people in the middle of the city.
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GORANI: Afghanistan is under threat, not just from the Taliban, but also there are ISIS concerns.
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GORANI: Afghan police say at least 100 of the group's fighters were killed after they attacked checkpoints in the Achin district of Eastern Nangarhar
Province that lead to a gun fight with security forces.
So needless to say a difficult and unstable situation, 14 years after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. This crisis is emerging despite the huge
amount of international backing Afghanistan has received.
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GORANI: I'm joined by William Petty, the former British Ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan. You know these neighborhoods quite
well.
Let me ask you a little bit about historical context. If we look - if you think back to 2001. If we, if anyone had told you that in 2015, the Taliban
would be taking Kunduz from government forces after hundreds of billions of dollars, 14 years of American military presence, what would you have
thought then?
WILLIAM PETTY, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO AFGHANISTAN: Well, that wasn't certainly in the plan.
GORANI: No.
PETTY: But I think we learned our lessons, we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan, in 2003, we went into Iraq. So we kind of delayed the
rebuilding of Afghanistan till 2008 and 2009. I'll certainly when I left in 2012, it was clear that the Taliban would seek to test the new Afghan
government when the bulk of international forces have left. So it's not surprising they are seeking to test them. It was always on the cards that
the international community would have to stay engaged and support the Afghan government. And I always said that the Taliban were likely to come
to the negotiating table until they'd been defeated by the Afghan forces themselves.
GORANI: But they're - not only are they not defeated, they're achieving major victories, why would they negotiate under these circumstances?
PETTY: Well, I don't think they will negotiate. They are testing the Afghan government. They've obviously, Mullah Mansour, the successor to Mullah Omar
is seeking to establish his authority, it wasn't accepted by all the Taliban at the beginning.
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So they're seeking to test the mettle of the Afghan government. I think it's early days, this is clearly a setback.
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PETTY: But the Taliban have traditionally been strong in areas like Kunduz and in some of the southern provinces. The key will be can the Afghan
forces take it back and take it back before the winter sets in. Because I think the Afghans -- the Taliban will find it difficult to fight during the
winter season.
GORANI: So I spoke to the spokesperson for Ashraf Ghani, he confirmed one U.S. air strike, in Kunduz, said they will ask the Americans for more if
they need it. But do Afghan security forces in this particular case need the United States to step up and help in this time of definite need in
terms of this particular military setback?
PETTY: Well, it's obviously helpful to have U.S. air power. I don't think the Afghan air force has the capability to have air strikes in support of
ground forces. So the Americans are there. They certainly want to help them.
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PETTY: I think it's important that the Afghan forces take back Kunduz as quickly as possible. There will be other tests. This will not be the last
test of the Afghan's forces' ability to resist the Taliban.
GORANI: But you're calling it a test, but fundamentally, is this not just a simply the realization of years of effort put into Afghan security forces
and the Afghan military that have led to a major, major defeat here? It's more than a test isn't it?
PETTY: It's only a defeat if they hold on to it. I mean you can.
GORANI: . you don't think they'll .
PETTY: . you can have a surprise, you know we've heard some about the methodology of infiltrating the town through civilians. I mean the Taliban
look like civilians most of the time. So it's difficult to tell who they are. So they sprung a surprise.
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PETTY: The question is, can they hold it. If they were able to hold it, that would be serious. If the Afghan forces are unable to re-take an
important provincial city like Kunduz, then ordinary Afghans will begin to question whether the security forces are up to the task.
GORANI: Should there be a rethink a little bit about the drawdown of U.S. troops in Afghanistan do you think - or of coalition troops in Afghanistan?
PETTY: Well there may be some rethink about timing about whether the Afghan forces have the logistics and are capable. But in the end, the Afghans are
going to have to do this, the Americans can't stay there forever. So ultimately, this is an Afghan issue.
GORANI: You were an Ambassador to Iraq as well. Some observers of the situation in Iraq have said if the United States had not drawn down its
troops as quickly as it did a few years ago when it left the country entirely, that perhaps ISIS wouldn't have gotten a stronger foothold as it
ended up achieving in Iraq.
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PETTY: Well there's always -- the analysis of what happened, what produced ISIS goes way back to before the American troop withdrawal. But eventually,
these countries have to stand on their own two feet. And you've - the Americans can't stay there forever. They don't have imperial ambitions.
So you've got to leave at some point. And there was a failure of leadership amongst the Iraqi military. No might of American presence there would have
changed that.
GORANI: All right, William Petty, the former British Ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan and Saudi Arabia. Did I miss one?
PETTY: No, that's good. You got the full set.
GORANI: Thanks very much Ambassador, always a pleasure having you on the program. This is "The World Right Now."
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GORANI: Some nations are using sanctions to try to clamp down on Jihadists, making it illegal to go to Syria. Illegal to come back. But could a softer
approach really address the problem? I'll speak to a Danish mayor about the focus on rehabilitation.
And "The Daily Show" is back with a brand-new host at the helm. We'll take a look at Trevor Noah's long awaited debut on the program
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[15:45:55]
GORANI: A new report says the U.S. is failing to keep some Americans from traveling abroad to join ISIS despite their best efforts.
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GORANI: A bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers said 25,000 foreign fighters have joined the terror group in Syria and Iraq since 2011. And even more
surprising more than a quarter of those, more than 7,000 have joined in the past nine months alone.
To deal with the problem, the state department just added another ten people to a list of global terrorists. And the U.S. Treasury has frozen the
assets of 15 people they say facilitate terror.
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GORANI: The U.K. is also sending a message to would-be recruits. The Cameron government has asked the U.N. to slap sanctions on four Britain's.
Sherisse Pham has that story.
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SHERISSE PHAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Four British Citizens accused of links to ISIS now sanctioned by the U.N. Sally Ann-Jones, authorities she is a
convert who traveled to Syria with her husband. Omar Hussain who has appeared in propaganda videos and is described as a recruiter. Aqsa
Mahmood, just 19 when she left the U.K. to join ISIS and Syria. And Nasser Muthnna, a former medical student who appeared in this ISIS recruitment
video.
MAYA LESTER, LAWYER: Worldwide across all U.N. Countries these new four British citizens can't travel and can't hold any access or funds made
available to them so it's an extremely far-reaching power that they've used.
PHAM: The British government is targeting these four because of their aggressive online recruiting efforts.
LESTER: The published reasons say that they have been stirring up support for ISIS and glorifying the act of ISIS online (inaudible) the emphasis is
on YouTube, on twitter and it's on social media as well as the glorification of ISIS and of terrorism..
PHAM: The British Government made the request amid growing concern about the number of Britain's being tempted to join ISIS. Officials say the
sanctions will send a message and discourage people from joining the terrorist group.
But it's unclear how effective sanctioning these individuals will be.
TOM KEATINGE, RUSI: They're not seeking to operate within international spheres, not seeking to fly anywhere or to use the bank accounts I imagine
and therefore it's purely symbolic.
PHAM: Meanwhile, Britain playing a key role in the propaganda fight against ISIS. Prime Minister Cameron at the U.N. General Assembly proposing a $15
million London based unit to counter the recruiting message from the militants.
Sherisse Pham, CNN, London.
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GORANI: In a sharp contrast to what the U.K. is doing, Denmark is focusing instead on de-radicalization.
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GORANI: CNN is visiting one city where police are partnering with the local mosque. They try to discourage young people from going from Iraq and Syria.
Also they counsel them if they happen to go there and return.
My next guest is Copenhagen's mayor of employment and integration, Anna Mee Allerslev, will be leading a panel at the U.N. entitled "building
resilience to violent extremism" and she joins me now from the U.N.
Anna Mee Allerslev, thanks for being with us. First, let's talk a little bit about what you think might work.
Assuming a Danish citizen is attracted to this ISIS propaganda, goes to Syria or Iraq and comes back to Denmark, and you know, you have
intelligence that this person traveled to Syria, to ISIS controlled territory and came back. What should be done with that individual when they
return?
ANNA MEE ALLERSLEV, COPENHAGEN'S MAYOR OF EMPLOYMENT AND INTEGRATION: We have two steps. First, we want the police and the P.I.T. in Demark to look
after them, to have - to have an eye on them.
Second, we as a municipality, we want to take them back into society. We want to -- we want to make -- have them -- to have an education. We want
them to have a job. We want to give them a mentor so that they can be a part of society again.
GORANI: So, you don't think they should be jailed? You don't think they should be criminally prosecuted?
ALLERSLEV: If we can prove that they have done something illegal, of course, they need to be prosecuted. But, we as a municipality, we need to
bring them back into society, if we can, because that is our job as a municipality. But, of course, I support the police work with the youngsters
who return.
[15:45:20]
GORANI: So, you don't think joining ISIS is -- should be considered a crime in and of itself?
ALLERSLEV: I'm not -- I'm not the one who makes - who makes the law. I'm only a representative of the municipality. And what is our job is to bring
the youngsters back. And sometimes, if they go to jail, we want to collaborate with the prisoner probation service. We want to collaborate
with them, so we can bring them back into society when they come out. That is our job.
GORANI: Now, how do you know this works better than taking another approach such as criminalizing the decision to join a group like ISIS?
ALLERSLEV: I think, if the young people who return to Denmark -- if they have done a crime, of course, they need to go to jail, but even though they
go to jail, they will come back into society. And then it's our jobs a municipality to do everything we can to give them an education. To give
them a job. To help them - to help them come back and be included in the society. Because they will not stay in prison forever. If they go to
prison. So that is our job. That is also what our expert group says to us.
GORANI: I guess my question is, how do you know that works? How do you measure success in this - in this program?
ALLERSLEV: What is very difficult. Is that a lot of the youngsters don't tell us that they have gone. So we don't have -- we don't have exact
numbers. But what we have, is that we have had an international expert group with experts (inaudible) as a head of the group who have told us that
that is what we are supposed to do as a municipality.
GORANI: And how many, I mean, in your role at the municipality, how many young people, or perhaps not so young people, have been through this de-
radicalization scheme so far?
ALLERSLEV: Unfortunately, in Denmark, we have too many young people who are attracted to ISIS. We have seen a very aggressive recruitment from the
people, as we heard before on your program.
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ALERSLEV: And so, the number who contact us has gone up a lot. This year alone, we've had almost 60 persons in our program. So, we are very buried
right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Okay. Anna Mee Allerslev, the Copenhagen Mayor for Integration, thanks very much for joining us.
While the U.S. President's focus at the U.N. today was tackling ISIS it was his decidedly frosty relationship with the Russian President Vladimir Putin
that was still the talk of the town. Their sparring of the future of Syria's President. And the gap between Mr.
Obama's and Mr. Putin's position appears as wide as possible. Matthew Chance is in Moscow.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The champagne was cold but not quite as icy as this brief moment in a key diplomatic relationship.
After his toast, President Obama clinked glasses with the other heads of state at his table, all except one. In the end, Vladimir Putin gave up
waiting, and took a sip through tightened lips.
Earlier in the U.N. Chamber, the animosity was laid bare. President Obama delivering a speech punctuated with Kremlin digs over Syria and Ukraine.
PRESIDENT OBAMA: We recognize the deep and complex history between Russia and Ukraine. But we cannot stand by when the sovereignty and territory
integrity of a nation is flagrantly violated.
CHANCE: In public, the two are clearly very awkward in each other's presence; the handshakes stiff and orchestrated. But that's a sign of their
very real differences not least on Syria, in particular the future of Bashar al Assad, the Syrian leader President Obama and others want removed
but not Putin.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: (As translated) I relate to my colleagues, the American and French Presidents with great respect, but they
aren't citizens of Syria and so should not be involved in choosing the leadership of another country. It is Syrians' business.
CHANCE: But behind closed doors, there are signs a practical relationship is starting to reform. The Kremlin described their U.N. meeting as very
constructive, business-like, and surprisingly very frank. They may never be friends, but the glasses of Putin and Obama were eventually clinked. The
two may have to work together.
Matthew chance, CNN, Moscow.
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[15:50:07] GORANI: Interesting body language. Don't forget, you can get all the news, and interviews and analysis from our program;
Facebook.com/halagoranicnn. Go on there and let us know what you think.
Still ahead, Jon Stewart may be gone but "The daily Show" made it's much hyped return last night.
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GORANI: How did things go for new host Trevor Noah?
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GORANI: Monday was a big night in American late night television. Comedian Trevor Noah debuted a new era of Comedy Central's flagship program "The
Daily Show." Noah is replacing a beloved satirical news giant Jon Stewart that we all know around the world. He was sure of course to address
Stewart's absence head on and with humor.
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TREVOR NOAH, HOST THE DAILY SHOW: The truth is now I'm in the chair and I can only assume that this is as strange for you as me. You know Jon Stewart
was more than just a late night host. He was often our voice, our refuge and in many ways our political dad. And it's weird, because dad has left. [
laughter ]
And now it feels like the family has a new stepdad. [Laughter] And he's black.
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GORANI: A new stepdad who' 31 years old talk about some big shoes to fill.
Most critics seem to think the debut went smoothly even though fans do miss their original late night dad. Let's get some insight, CNN media
correspondent Brian Stelter is in New York.
All right, so you know he seemed quite relaxed, it has to be said, Trevor Noah, even though there was -- must have been a lot of pressure on him on
day one.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You're right, he did seem quite comfortable in the chair and that is one of the tests for a new host
of any news show, whether satirical or serious.
He also reflected on his outsider status. He's not shying the way from the fact that he's a native of South Africa who is now learning about the
American political system for the first time.
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STELTER: Here's what he said early in the show about what it's like to be an outsider.
NOAH: This is surreal for me. I'm not going to lie growing up in the dusty streets of South Africa, I never dreamed that I would one day have well two
things really - an indoor toilet, and a job as host of the Daily Show [Laughter]. And now I have both, and I'm quite comfortable with one of
them.
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STELTER: With one of them. Now here's the thing, Hala, he's had a lot of time to figure out this first opening episode. You know he had time to
practice lines like those. Maybe the real test starts tonight when he has to host a show every single day and make fun of the world around us.
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GORANI: Yes, and you and I both know it's difficult to keep the energy up every day of the week and keep the content fresh so we'll see if he's able
to achieve that as well. You have that adrenaline on night one. But I want to ask you a little bit about the role that Trevor Noah sees for himself.
That the show is going to -- that the show's producers see for Trevor Noah.
I mean Jon Stewart was kind of this moral compass. He held politicians to account, journalists as well, made fun of CNN, Fox, et cetera. Trevor Noah
is a young man who is not from the United States. Will he also do some of what Jon Stewart did that in regard?
[15:55:07]
STELTER: He may at some point but he's not starting off that way. He told me has no list of targets you know so he's not going to immediately go
after fox news the way that Jon Stewart did for so many years.
But we did hear Noah last night say he's going to continue to try to call out BS where he sees it the same way that Stewart Did. And Noah says he has
the same kind of political temperament, the same progressive world view that Stewart had so we will see that come through on the program.
But my sense is that we will see this version of the Daily Show making fun of you know Buzzfeed or twitter as much as CNN or Fox news. You know we're
going to see a wider lens when it comes to the targets perhaps in the future.
GORANI: Of course. And the big question as always I mean in U.S. television, you have the ratings. And the ratings are -- you know, that's
the gauge by which you measure the success of a program. Do we have the ratings yet for last night's show?
STELTER: Not for a couple more hours. But I have a feeling they'll be very high because the Viacom company that owns Comedy Central also aired the
Daily Show on like seven other channels last night. So they in a way artificially inflated the premiere audience numbers which is why again
tonight might be the bigger test.
You should keep in mind that it's also being shown all around the world, in the United Kingdom for example, "The Daily Show" premiering tonight after
it being off the air for a number of years. So this will be seen around the world. And one of Viacom's big plays here is to make sure the show is seen
in as many countries as possible. They believe Trevor Noah bringing a multicultural perspective to the show, will travel better around the world
than Jon Stewart's version of the Daily Show did.
But ultimately it is about the ratings in the United States and it's going to be a long slow I think growth period for Trevor Noah as he tries to
bring in new fans and new viewers.
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STELTER: But you know he's got Chris Christie tomorrow night, a Republican Presidential candidate and he has Ryan Adams, the musician on Thursday
night. So he has a number of people in the beginning he can start to learn the ropes with on stage there.
GORANI: It's interesting all the comedians are fighting over politicians these day.
STELTER: They sure are.
GORANI: Thanks very much. Brian, that's where you find comedy sometimes more than other places. Brian Stelter thanks very much in New York. This
has been "The World Right Now." thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Quick break and then it's "Quest Means Business."
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