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Hala Gorani Tonight
New Report Says MH17 Brought Down by Russian Missile; Escalating Tensions in the Middle East. Aired 3-4p ET.
Aired October 13, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight, brought down by a Russian made missile.
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GORANI: The last moments of MH-17 revealed in a new report. I will speak to the mother of two of the victims.
Then, with a rash of stabbings, and clashes, what can stop the escalating, and deadly tensions in the Middle East?
Plus, this hour, anticipation is building in Las Vegas for the first U.S. Democratic Presidential debate will kick off in just a few hours right here
on CNN. We'll have the last-minute strategizing.
And, covering up. What "playboy" hopes to gain by losing the nudity.
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GORANI: Hello, everyone, I'm Hala Gorani, we're live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us this hour. This is The World Right Now.
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GORANI: Well, Dutch investigators say a missile fired from the ground brought down Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over Ukraine last summer. But they
still are not saying who exactly fired it.
On Tuesday they released a key report into the crash, which killed 298 people, and for the first time, we are getting vivid details about the
flight's final moments.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more.
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FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pieced together over months by investigators, fragments of flight MH-17. Incomplete, but enough
for the Dutch safety board to determine what caused it to crash in July 2014. Its findings are in line with what many believed. MH-17 was shot down
over eastern Ukraine by a Russian-made Buk surface-to-air missile.
TJIBBE JOUSTRA, CHAIRMAN DUTCH SAFETY BOARD: Flight MH-17 crashed because of a 9M314M warhead detonated outside the airplane above the left side of
the cockpit. This warhead fits the kind of missile that is installed on the Buk surface-to-air missile system.
PLEITGEN: Flight MH-17 enters Ukrainian air space at an altitude of 33,000 feet. Investigators released this animation of what they conclude happened
to the plane. They say the Buk missile exploded less than a meter from the cockpit, causing the front of the plane to break off.
Fragments carrying traces of paint linked to these missiles were in the bodies of the three crew in the cockpit, and in the plane's left wing.
Investigators believe most passengers died almost instantly with no comprehension of the situation. But they couldn't rule out that some may
have been conscious during the 90 seconds it took the plane to fall to the ground.
The report is critical of Ukrainian authorities for allowing commercial flights in the area. And it calls for new rules to be introduced for flying
over war zones.
JOUSTRA: None of the aviation parties involved recognized the risks of the civil aviation by the armed conflicts on the ground.
PLEITGEN: Crucially what the report did not do was say who fired the missile. Kiev and its western allies blamed Russian-backed separatists.
Russia for its part blames Ukrainian forces, and all deny any wrongdoing.
The Russian state arms producer that makes the Buk system came out with its own research.
YAN NOVIKOV, CEO ALMAZ-ANTEY: (As translated) the results of the experiment have entirely refuted the conclusions by the Dutch commission about the
type of the rocket and the place of the launch.
PLEITGENT: And Russian officials who participated in the investigation maintain it's not possible to confirm the warhead, or the type of system
used. A separate Dutch criminal investigation is under way. It hopes to have answers next year. Officials say they will not rest until those who
shot down MH-17 are brought to justice.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, London.
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GORANI: Well, this is another agonizing step for the loved ones of the victims.
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GORANI: A few days after the disaster we talked with a mother who lost two of her three sons on MH-17. One of those she lost just 10 years old, asked
her what would happen if the plane crashed. His words would haunt her.
SAMIRA CALEHR, LOST TWO SONS ABOARD MH-17: If I could just turn back time, you know, I didn't listen to him that I -- I don't know. I have no words.
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GORANI: Well, not enough answers, and still no words for this mother, and more wondering and waiting. Let's bring in the mother you just saw there,
Samira Calehr, she joins me via Skype from Amsterdam.
Samira I'm sure this is a very difficult day for you, because every new report, every mention of MH-17 brings back the terrible and painful
memories. What is your reaction to the findings in this report today?
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CALEHR: Well, we are sick of this fabricated truth statement, a joint agreement of the countries involved. A desperate act to protect the
political issues, no feelings at all for all who lost their loved ones, and face empty lives.
GORANI: What would have satisfied you more today, what would you have liked to hear from authorities in Holland?
CALEHR: The truth. Nothing but the truth.
GORANI: You're saying that essentially they avoided pointing fingers, and they should be assigning blame here? Why do you think they're now doing
that?
CALEHR: Because they want to play safe. Because political issues, as I told you before.
GORANI: Well let me ask you a little bit about what you would like to see happen now. You're not satisfied with this report? You think people should
be held accountable, who are not being held accountable? What would you like to see happen now?
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CALEHR: (Inaudible) Until now, all that we want is to know the truth.
GORANI: Are you in touch with any of the authorities? I mean is this something that you're able to communicate with them to tell them, look, I
lost two of my children, and you're still issuing reports without assigning blame?
CALEHR: They don't even care. Just go on with your life. It can happen. You can lose two children if they go out from your house, and get hit by the
bus. They are not giving me any support or something or, you know, the other victims. I'm talking here about a terror attack. It's not a human
error, or something like that.
You know, I want to know the truth, and I'm sure all the other victims, they want to know the things. I had a telephone call today from the -- from
the journalist from the Netherlands, to tell me, ma'am, are you relieved that your children, they -- they actually passed away in 30 seconds, and
then they passed away. Are you happy with that?
How can you ask something like that? You know, my life will never, ever be the same again. And so that is not the other thing. I want to tell you
something, you're talking about terrorism. It's not a human error. You know sometimes I'm just wondering, and telling, you know, if there are 20 or 30
passengers in that plane who are U.S. Citizens, it's -- it's already war.
GORANI: Samira --
CALEHR: It's like, we are here in a safe country and I'm happy here. But there is no -- it's just -- there is no progress. It's just like we have to
move on with your life. This is what happened? You lose your children. And so are the others, they don't think about our future. But this -- we have
to stop this terror attacks.
GORANI: Yeah. I hear the frustration, Samira, I hear the frustration in your voice, and I can really, we sympathize with you so much.
CALEHR: I want to know one thing. CNN, please, help me, and help the other -- all of our passenger, all the family, and everybody, find out who pulled
the trigger.
GORANI: Well, certainly this has been the subject of much reporting and we're sorry that today you are feeling so very frustrated, and feeling like
the truth hasn't come out. Samira Calehr, thank you for joining us from Amsterdam on this extremely difficult day for you today. We really
appreciate your time. It's always difficult to hear from a parent who's lost their kids like this. Just really absolutely heart wrenching.
Let's turn our attention now to another story we've been following, what's going on in the Middle East.
Of course, Israeli Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is promising very aggressive steps to stem the worst outbreak of violence in years.
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GORANI: Police are saying that today, three Israelis were killed in a new wave of stabbings. And there have been shootings, cars -- car ramming
attacks by alleged Palestinian assailants, deadly violence in the West Bank, as well. Medics say one Palestinian was killed by Israeli forces.
Nearly 200 other protesters were reportedly injured across the West Bank of Gaza, and Jerusalem.
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Let's bring in Ben Wedeman who is now in Jerusalem after reporting today from the West Bank.
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GORANI: Tell us what you saw today, and what really is starting to sound like a worsening situation by the day, Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly today was very dramatic in Jerusalem. You had this -- this incident caught on
closed circuit T.V. where a car driven by a Palestinian from East Jerusalem slams into a bus stop. The driver gets out and start hacking away with a
meat cleaver at bystanders. One man was killed in that incident. The attacker was also killed.
What we saw in the West Bank, continued clashes between Palestinian youth, and Israeli security forces in what seems to be a generally escalating
situation.
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WEDEMAN: The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu's has been -- has spent most of this day meeting with security officials. He's been in an
emergency meeting of his security cabinet since 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon. That's seven hours ago. He briefly came out to make a statement.
We're waiting to find out what, perhaps, they've decided to do. But at the end of the day it's very difficult to try to prevent individuals with no
known connection with any political faction or group who go out and decide to kill. Hala?
GORANI: Right. And so - and so -- but I'm curious, what is overall public opinion? About this increase in the level of violence from Israelis you're
speaking with? What are they saying they believe the response of their government should be?
WEDEMAN: Well, if you look there is an opinion poll published over the weekend that said that 73% of Israelis either disapprove or strongly
disapprove of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister's handling of this crisis.
There is a growing chorus within the Israeli public that wants strong measures taken to stop this rash of attacks. But, you know, they're
pondering the possibility, for instance, of sealing off Palestinian neighborhoods in east Jerusalem, of bringing out the army to be deployed
around places like bus stations, and other areas where people gather.
They're talking about demolishing the homes of attackers within 72 hours. They're talking about taking away the residency rights of the families of
attackers. But they haven't actually come out and announced what they're going to do. And I'm sure that whatever they come out and announce, many
Israelis will say, that's simply not enough. Hala?
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GORANI: All right. Our senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman covering the latest developments from Jerusalem. Thanks very much. A lot
more to come tonight.
The pressure is on, and the Presidency is at stake.
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GORANI: We're just hours away from the first democratic debate in the race for the White House. We're live, in Las Vegas. Straight ahead.
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GORANI: Welcome back, everybody. This is the Wynn Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. And you're seeing a live view of the stage where the five Democratic
Presidential candidates will be facing off in just a few hours here on CNN. It's in the 1:00 a.m. hour if you were watching in Central European time,
in that time zone.
And really, it's for night owls but will air again in this spot tomorrow. Hillary Clinton is looking to hold onto her lead in the polls, while Bernie
Sanders and three lesser-known rivals are hoping for some breakout moments.
Let us go live now to Las Vegas. For the very latest we're joined by CNN politics senior digital correspondent, Chris Moody.
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GORANI: All right, Chris, let's talk a little bit about preparations, about what to expect for this evening, because this is the first time we're
seeing all five Democratic Presidential candidates on the same stage at the same time.
CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: And it's five candidates in five completely different situations here. You've got Hillary
Clinton, a completely known entity, probably 99.99% of people in the United States know who she is.
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MOODY: She -- her goal here is really to do no harm. And also to put her best foot forward for the debate.
You have Bernie Sanders, the Senator from Cermont, nipping at her heels, very strong support from the Liberal grassroots.
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MOODY: And then you have three other candidates. Lincoln Chafee, Martin O'Malley and Jim Webb. And if international audiences are wondering, who
are they? So are a lot of Americans.
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MOODY: So this is an opportunity for them to introduce themselves to most of the country. And this is really make or break. This is their chance. And
it will be very interesting to see how they choose to put their best foot forward.
GORANI: And I wonder what themes will be brought up, because we know what the GOP attack lines are against Hillary Clinton, Benghazi, the e-mails,
state department, the e-mails that server that Hillary Clinton kept on a private server during her time at the state department. We know all that.
Will her democratic rivals bring those things up to attack her as the front-runner?
MOODY: I think a lot of them will try to use the opportunity to show distance between themselves, and Hillary Clinton. You've got Bernie Sanders
really holding the Liberal line in a lot of policy issues. But then you also have Hillary Clinton that can probably make the case that she may even
be more to the left on issues like gun control than Bernie Sanders. I think those types of issues is where you're seeing some real divide.
There's also a lot of questions about whether or not Democrats have done enough to speak to the African-American community, in the United States.
Bernie Sanders has taken a lot of criticism, as well as Martin O'Malley on that. And so there are a lot of issues, I think, that do divide on policy
with these candidates and we're going to see that played out live on the debate stage tonight here in Las Vegas.
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GORANI: All right. Chris Moody, thanks very much in Las Vegas. An interesting race. Will Joe Biden announce he's running at all or not? Trump
will be live tweeting. Really, the story many angles will be covering them all. Thanks very much.
A lot more ahead.
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GORANI: Jennifer Lawrence, the big Hollywood star, is speaking out over sexism. We'll tell you what one of Hollywood's biggest stars has to say
about the gender pay gap. We'll be right back.
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GORANI: Jennifer Lawrence has starred in Hollywood blockbusters including "The Hunger Games" and "X Men" but now she's making headlines for speaking
out about the pay gap, the disparity and the sexism in the film industry. One of many industries where you will find that women are paid essentially
less than men for the same job. She's written about her anger after finding out that, in fact, she earned less than her male co-stars in the film
"American Hustle" thanks to the Sony hack, by the way.
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GORANI: Jennifer Lawrence says, "when the Sony hack happened and I found out how much less I was being paid, I didn't get mad at Sony. I got mad at
myself. I failed as a negotiator because I gave up early."
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GORANI: The 25-year-old actress says she wanted to close the deal, and avoid appearing difficult. For more I'm joined by CNN's senior media
correspondent Brian Setter in New York.
This has made a lot of waves. Lots of women have read this and said, yeah, there you go. I feel the same way. I've acted in the same way. So it's
really just certainly resonated with a lot of people out there.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: And it absolutely has.
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STELTER: It's really impressive to see how personally this A-list actress is writing about, you know, being paid, you know, a lot of money to do her
job. But how she feels she is treated very unfairly when compared to her male co-stars. We're talking about household names here. People like
Bradley Cooper and Christian Bale and Jeremy Renner. All of them who she names very directly and says, you know, those men do not blink, do not
think twice when demanding to be paid more, when demanding what they want. Women, however, when she is found in Hollywood, at least, do tend to be
less willing to fight for what they deserve. And so she's writing about this in very personal terms for a Lenny Letter, a newsletter that's been
created by Lena Dunham.
GORAI: Yes, and what's interesting -- do we know, by the way, what the disparity was in terms of pay on that movie "American Hustler"?
STELTER: I'm not sure that the Sony hack showed the exact disparity. But like you mentioned the Sony hack is why this conversation started to begin
with. Because there were so many e-mails that showed the differences in pay. You know there was also an e-mail referring to Angelina Jolie as a
spoiled brat. A producer calling Jolie a spoiled brat.
Jennifer Lawrence writes today, "for some reason J just can't picture someone saying that about a man."
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STELTER: So she's making a numb beryl of points here about how men and women are treated differently in Hollywood even when you're like Jennifer
Lawrence and you're an A-list star.
GORANI: You mentioned one quote. Here's another one. "All I hear and see all day are men speaking their opinions and I give mine in the same exact
manner, and you would have thought I'd said something offensive. I'm over trying to find the adorable way to state my opinion, and still be likable."
Here, here. Let me - I mean you've heard that - you've heard women say that in many industries, including ours, including banking, including you name
it, medical in terms of doctors and how they express themselves in hospitals, et cetera.
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GORANI: Women and men are just treated differently with regards to how their tone and their behavior is judged at work.
STELTER: Right. Lawrence says in her essay she didn't want to come across in the past as being difficult or being spoiled. You know these very words
are words that are used against people in workplaces. But it's unique to hear from the Hollywood perspective.
You know, we've heard from people like Sheryl Sandberg at Facebook and from a number of other prominent women in other fields about their experiences
with these inequalities. But to hear from Jennifer Lawrence who is of course world famous and who gets a lot of media attention by virtue of
being world famous it does, I think, create even more conversations about these issues.
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STELTER: As really impressive, like I said, to see her writing about this in such strikingly personal terms, and people can find it online, by the
way. Called Lenny Letter. That's the newsletter where she publishes today.
GORANI: By the way, she uses the f-bomb here and there. Although it is not spelled out, sort of completely, but I mean, you know, the tone is actually
-- it's a very entertaining read as well as being enlightening.
STELTER: Well the other "f" word -- the other "f" word is feminist. She says you know she's been reluctant in the past to be outspoken as a
feminist, but I think with this essay, that's what we're seeing her begin to do.
GORANI: You're right. Brian, absolutely, and also she's young, she appeals to younger women so we'll see if that kind of -- sort of changes the way
some women might behave in the future.
Thanks very much. Brian Stelter in New York
STELTER: Thank you.
GORANI: We appreciate it. Next the stage is set and the candidates are making their final preparations.
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GORANI: The first American Presidential Democratic debate is about five hours away. We'll hear from CNN's political analyst straight ahead.
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GORANI: Plus, the playboy bunny is getting dressed as the magazine gets set to strip nudity from its pages. Wasn't that the whole point? Well,
nope, there's a new strategy ahead for playboy. We'll uncover the full story coming up.
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GORANI: Welcome back. Our top stories, Dutch prosecutors vow to find out who fired the missile that downed MH-17 over eastern Ukraine last summer.
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GORANI: Today investigators said the missile was fired from the ground. It exploded outside the cockpit breaking the plane apart and killing all 298
aboard. They did not assign blame for the attack.
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GORANI: Israel's prime minister is promising tough action to stop a surge in violence.
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GORANI: Police say three Israelis were killed, and a new wave of stabbings, shootings, and car ramming attacks by alleged Palestinian assailants.
Deadly violence in the West Bank, as well. Medics say one Palestinian was killed by Israeli forces.
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GORANI: Iranian lawmakers have given their okay to the international nuclear deal but not without an argument and even a fight.
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GORANI: Now it goes to Iran's Guardian Council, which could approve it, or send it back to parliament for amendments.
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GORANI: Final preparations are under way now for the first U.S. Democratic Presidential debate. This is the stage in Las Vegas.
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GORANI: These are some live images coming in to us where in just a few hours the top U.S. Democrats running for President will face off, five
candidates will participate, and CNN's Anderson Cooper will be the moderator.
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GORANI: It is the first time that Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will go head-to-head. The two leading Democratic candidates in the race for the
White House.
Let's speak to Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's Smerconish, he's in Las Vegas where the debate begins in just a few hours from now. And political
analyst Josh Rogan who joins us from Washington.
All right, Michael, I'm going to start with you in Las Vegas. This is the first opportunity for voters to see all five Presidential candidates for
the Democrats on the same stage at the same time. What is the strategy for these candidates this evening?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST SMERCONISH: Just to put it in perspective, by this point in the 2008 cycle, which is the last time there was a competitive
Democratic field for President, there had already been 13 debates, 13 face- to-face confrontations by this state of the election. So they're kind of behind the eight ball if you look at it from that perspective. But I think
it's been a deliberate strategy probably to protect Secretary Clinton in her position as front-runner.
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SMERCONISH: What am I looking for tonight? I think there are two debates that are playing themselves out on that stage. First among the
frontrunners, it's Bernie Sanders, it's Hillary Clinton and then among the three so-called other guys to see can anyone distinguish himself. Can
anyone have for the Democratic party a Carly Fiorina moment, because she broke out after the first debate on the Republican side of the aisle. So
watch both debates at the same time.
GORANI: All right, Michael, we will. Let me get to Josh Rogan. You know, CNN has an emergency podium for Joe Biden, just in case. Now it seems
rather unlikely that he's going to announce he's running 4 1/2 hours before the debate. But Joe Biden is polling very well in certain States, even
though he's not a declared candidate. How much of a concern or how much of an issue is that for the other candidates, Josh?
JOSH ROGAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, as Michael pointed out correctly, time is of the essence. There are a limited number of debates so these
candidates who are not named Bernie Sanders and who are not named Joe Biden have limited opportunities to really break through and to make an impact.
Vice President Biden's office announced that he'll be watching the debate from the naval observatory in Washington where he lives so he won't be
there in Vegas. But he will be there in spirit. People will be talking about his positions. People will be asking questions, and his potential
candidacy looms large over these events. So, before -- if he is to get in, that will happen soon. And that will further suck up the oxygen in the
Democratic field. So if you're not named Bernie Sanders or you're not named Hillary Clinton, you better make your mark soon.
GORANI: And Michael, do you think Joe Biden will run? Why or why not?
SMERCONISH: I don't think he'll run. I don't have any special knowledge. I don't have any inside information. He would start out quite far behind in
terms of money and organization. Of course he's got 100% name identification. Everybody knows who he is. I think that his position in
history is somewhat cemented now from a favorable perspective. I don't know that he's going to want to tinker with that. He'll be concluding eight
years of distinguished service as Vice President to Barack Obama. I don't know that he wants to put it all on the line for what would be a third
Presidential run. The first two didn't end so well.
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GORANI: All right. And another person who is not present in Las Vegas but whose presence will be felt in one way or another is Donald Trump. Who has
promised to live tweet the debate. Josh, let's talk a little bit about the trump factor here.
ROGAN: Well, we're going to see an ongoing real-time stream of attacks on Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and all the rest of them. It will be like
an oppo bonanza. And what Trump is trying to do here is take the focus off the Democrats and put it back on himself. He's usually really good at that.
And you can be sure as all the political journalists and the close observers of this race are tuned in to twitter to follow on two screens the
debate, they'll be following Donald Trump just as much as they'll be following the candidates.
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GORANI: And, Michael, you know, of course, we're seen all over the world. You mention three other candidates that Americans might not be as familiar
with. And certainly even more so internationally, these are not known commodities or household names. Martin O'Malley the former governor of
Maryland, and Mayor of Baltimore. Lincoln Chafee is running as a Democrat even though he was elected Governor of Rhode Island as an Independent.
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GORANI: We also have Jim Webb a former senator from Virginia, he served as Secretary of the Navy under the Reagan administration. You mentioned that
each one of these men wants to have a moment where they break out.
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GORANI: Historically put it in perspective. Where were we in 2012 with candidates that weren't as well-known, and that were able, in one way or
another, to get ahead in the polls?
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GORANI: What are their chances here? -
SMERCONISH: Well, of course in 2012, you know, Barack Obama was running for re-election, and so the action was on the Republican side of the aisle.
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SMERCONISH: And you had a battle within the GOP where there was great competition among the more conservative candidates. They split that vote
and Mitt Romney was able to escape with the prize. It's interesting, because on the Republican side of the aisle this time around, there's a big
battle going on within the establishment core of the GOP and it would seem like right now the upper hand is held by one of the mavericks. One of the
very conservative mavericks, that would be Trump, that would be Ben Carson, that would be Carly Fiorina.
On the Democratic side of the aisle, it's been more straight forward. It's Hillary Clinton, who is facing this populous appeal from Bernie Sanders.
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SMERCONISH: Sanders, a guy who's been around for a long time, long serving in the U.S. Senate. But I would say the issues have finally caught up to
him. He was ahead of the curve on income inequality, on minimum wage, on infrastructure, and I think that's a large part of his appeal. But he needs
to break out from a perception in the United States where, you know, he self-identifies as a Democratic socialist. In the U.K. around the globe,
that might not be problematic. In the United States, which regards itself as a capitalist country, he's got some selling to do.
GORANI: Right, it's a tough word -- it's a tough label, I should say, to carry in the United States, a country like France the President is
socialist and that's a party and that's fine.
SMERCONISH: Right
GORANI: Josh, I've got to ask you, also, I mean, we know the GOP attacks lines against Hillary Clinton; Benghazi, the e-mails, et cetera.
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GORANI: Will those be used by her Democratic rivals, you do think? Or is that something that will be for the general election, the issues brought up
in the general election?
ROGAN: I think Michael's right here. I think the issues, domestic issues, especially, have really come around to Bernie Sanders' point of view. On
foreign policy, it's a different story. We have a real dichotomy here. There is Hillary Clinton's more hawkish views, and then there's the
progressives, represented by Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley and the realists represented by Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee.
That's where the action will be. All of these candidates, in the run-up to the debate, have been talking a lot about Hillary Clinton's foreign policy.
They see it as a target-rich environment. They're planning to go after her for it. And she'll be on the defensive. So, we're talking about Iraq, Iran,
Libya, Syria, The trans-pacific partnership. These are the things that Democratic opponents are going to challenge her on. And she'll be hard-
pressed to fend off all of these attacks. And the fact is, that in some of these cases, the GOP will benefit from Democrats attacking Hillary on her
foreign policy credentials.
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GORANI: All right. Thanks to both of you. Michael Smerconish in Las Vegas, Josh Rogan is in Washington, D.C. Really appreciate this conversation.
Thanks for being with us. And our live coverage starts at 8:30 p.m. on the U.S. East coast, that's 1:30 a.m. Wednesday in London. I said 1:30 Central
European time, It's actually 1:30 in London. 2:30 Central European tonight you night owls. But you can watch the replay at 8:00 p.m. Wednesday in
London, this hour tomorrow.
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GORANI: And also you can weigh in on everything we've covered this evening. Facebook.com/halagoraniCNN. We always appreciate your input. And by the way
you'll be able to check some of our interviews this evening, including the very, very emotional conversation we had with the mother of two young men
who died on MH-17. So do check in with us for that and more.
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GORANI: This is The World Right Now. Just ahead, after doing something mean of us have done ourselves this elderly British man is facing a punishment
so severe his family says he will not survive it.
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GORANI: Saudi Arabia is known for handing down cruel punishment for what would be considered minor crimes in the west, or not a crime at all, in
fact. Because, right now, a 74-year-old British man is facing up to 360 lashes for getting caught with homemade wine. Karl's Andree's family fear
that the flogging could kill him. Now the British Prime Minister is looking to personally step in. Nima Elbagir has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIMA ELBAGIR: Karl's Andree's family say that he knows that he was breaking Saudi Arabian law when he was found with homemade alcohol in his car. His
family tell us that he has already served over a year of that one-year custodial sentence that the court handed down, and they still have no idea
whether he will be coming home, and whether the Saudi Arabian government will listen to their pleas for clemency to suspend the sentence of 360
lashes that the court also sentenced him to.
SIMON ANDREE, SON OF KARL ANDREE: He's 74 years of age. You know, I completely understand that he's committed a crime, and for that you have to
face consequences. Which he understands, as well. But, I would just like to say on the basis of his ill health that, that you know, if we can get
clemency and get him released. You know because I just don't - I fear he won't survive those lashings.
ELBAGIR: What's your biggest fear?
ANDREW: You know if he was a younger man, you'd think, you know, sorry, tough luck dad, you put up with it, you shouldn't have done it. But he's an
old man and I just fear, you know, a punishment which is meant there to be corporal punishment could end up being a punishment there for capital
punishment, which is not what it is intended in the first place. So that's my fear.
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ELBAGIR: The British Prime minister says that he is writing to the Saudi Government to ask for Karl Andree's release and plead for clemency. The
British Government has announced a withdrawal of their bid for a contract to help train the Saudi judicial system. This comes after the Saudi
judicial system has been engulfed by a series of controversy.
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ELBAGIR: One of the most famous was that of Saudi blogger and activist Raif Al-Badawi who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes. 50 of which he received in
January of this year. His family say they are uncertain whether he would survive the rest of the sentence.
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ELBAGIR: And yet, in spite of lobbying by governments around the world, the Saudi Supreme Court this summer upheld that sentence.
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ELBAGIR: And more recently, last month, Ali Al Nimid who was sentenced after his involvement, the Saudi Government says in Arab Spring inspired
demonstrations in the east of the country, crimes that were committed according to the Saudi Government itself when he was 17, Al Nimid has now
been sentenced to execution, and public crucifixion.
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ELBAGIR: Britain's arms deals with Saudi Arabia are incredibly lucrative, worth billions of pounds. But the British Prime Minister says that he is
not shying away from raising this issue, and will continue to raise it.
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ELBAGIR: Karl Andree's family hopes it will be enough to bring him home safe and sound.
Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.
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GORANI: We're going to have a lot more on The World Right Now, stay with us.
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[15:50:15]
GORANI: It goes - it goes men - it without saying that men who page through "Playboy," most men, not all, most, look at it, of course, only for the
articles. Now, that's about to get a little more believable.
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GORANI: Because, "Playboy" is set to stop featuring nude women in its magazines beginning next March. And it's all because of the internet.
"Playboy's" CEO told "the New York Times" there's just too much free nudity and all sorts of other things, available online for free, so the magazine
can't compete with it anyway. Now no one knows more about this than CNN's business correspondent Samuel Burke.
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GORANI: I mean, what's available on the internet for free. He joins me now live to explain the move. Hey, Samuel. So, but it makes sense, doesn't it?
Because -- and in online by the way there is no nudity. The online version of "Playboy."
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Actually last year they got rid of the nudity. How can you compete with Google? Every intimate
desire that somebody could have out there, according to my sources, is available on Google. So how could a magazine like "Playboy" compete? But
what's interesting here is they actually say that the nudity was holding them back. Do you know what nsfw stands for?
GORANI: Not safe for work.
BURKE: Exactly. So if I send you a link that I want you to open at home, not at work, I'll put NSFW on it. And "Playboy" said that was holding back
their website. People wanted to read the articles, the famous interviews. They've interviewed everybody from Martin Luther King to Dick Cheney. But
they couldn't open it up at work and they said the same thing was happening to them at stores. It was behind the plastic. And so people just weren't
opening it up.
GORANI: So now what do we get in "Playboy"? No nude women but what, just articles? Is it going to be more like Maxim or more like Rolling Stone? I
mean what's their strategy?
BURKE: It's going to be more like Maxim, GQ, Esquire, and they're going to really focus more on those big interviews that I was just talking about. So
it really is content is king. Though, of the more journalistic type, not the content that we're seeing behind you here.
GORANI: Right, big interviews, not big assets. But it did help them online, right? Because they got more clicks when they got rid of nudity online.
BURKE: That's exactly right because too many people were afraid to look at them. A number that I was absolutely fascinated by today to find out,
"Playboy" only has a circulation of 800,000.
GORANI: You were surprised because you thought it was higher?
BURKE: I was sure it was higher. I didn't think it could -- I knew it was going to be low obviously.
GORANI: I'm actually not surprised.
BURKE: I know the glory days of print are over. But 800,000. Facebook has 1.49 billion users. That says it all. And this is really about this digital
shift.
GORANI: If you compare like for like, I mean, what compared to Maxim for instance? Does it have a much higher - I don't mean to put you on the spot,
but does it have a much higher circulation?
BURKE: Yes, so what we found out today is all those magazines do much better because they're not behind the plastic. They're not on that tall
shelf at the supermarket.
GORANI: But you know --
BURKE: So you don't have to reach so high anymore.
GORANI: So you know we have interns here, so I gave them ten pounds, you were there. I said go find me a print copy of "Playboy."
BURKE: He was of age, folks.
GORANI: He was really of age. 26 years old. Anyway, so I gave him ten pounds. I was going to expense it, you know, it's prop, show and tell.
BURKE: But he couldn't find it anywhere.
GORANI: Five newsagents and bookstores. And in fact I think W.H. Smith looked at him and said, we don't have "Playboy," are you kidding me? Like
we're way too classy a joint for "Playboy."
BURKE: That says it all.
GORANI: Yes, but we'll see if the new strategy changes things. Because, yes, they might have some interesting articles.
BURKE: We'll be watching. Reading.
GORANI: Thanks very much. Samuel Burke for that.
And we're just hours away, by the way, from the first Democratic debate.
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You'll get to see all the action from the stage live on CNN tonight. A lot happens when the cameras are not rolling, however. Our moderators give you
a feel of what it is like behind the scenes.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: The level of intensity on that stage always is, I don't know if it comes through necessarily all the time through the
television when you're watching at home but there's really nothing like it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN: You also have a producer in your ear telling you move on, do something else. So it's -- it gets a little complicated. Gets a
little intense.
DANA BASH, CNN: We're in there, and we're looking at them in person, it's a whole different experience. The candidates, try so hard to catch your eye.
COOPER: So they're constantly looking at you, and trying to signal to you that they want in.
BASH: Make you feel bad for not going to them.
COOPER: Sometimes, they can get in. But sometimes you have to move along.
BASH: The other thing that people don't get to see is what happens in the commercial breaks, which I thought was really cool. For the most part, the
candidates will go, and they'll check with their aides. But they're also were a few moments that I witnessed with the candidates and their spouses
and their families. Kind of getting a gut check.
[15:55:07]
BLITZER: I remember most from a national perspective, is when Newt Gingrich tried to, you know, take my head off.
NEWT GINGRICH: And I am appalled that you would begin a Presidential debate on a topic like that.
BLITZER: After the Newt thing, during the first break he came up to me and he said, you're doing a great job. I said that's funny you just called me
reprehensible on national television. He said oh, that's part of the game. He patted me on the back and after the debate he brought Calista over and
he goes isn't John -- didn't John do a great job?
COOPER: There's all that stuff you never see on television, you never see the candidates loved ones coming up to you during the commercial breaks
telling you you're not giving their candidate enough time. You know the wife of a candidate. The child of a candidate. And that happens. Blitzer
hadn't warned me about that sort of thing. Once you've done it and you know you've gotten through it, you want to do it again.
GORANI: There you have it. And here we go again. With the live view of the debate stage at the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas. There are five podiums, the
front-runner -- I'll be able to say it at some point, Hillary Clinton, Bernie sanders, as well. Three other Democratic Presidential candidates,
Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee, will also be facing off and hoping to have their standout moment this evening. There they are. This all
starts at 1:30 a.m. British time, 2:30 a.m. Central European time, and you can watch the replay the following day in this very slot on CNN
international, if you don't want to stay up so late.
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GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani, Quest Means Business is next.
END
