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Hala Gorani Tonight
Can World Leaders Find a Solution for Syria?; Interview with Turkish Foreign Minister. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 27, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:27]
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HALA GORANI, HOST: Tonight, can world leaders find a solution for Syria?
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GORANI: As the civil war rages on, I sit down with the Turkish Foreign Minister for an exclusive conversation to hear what he thinks is the way
forward.
Also, CNN goes inside of Syria to meet the Kurdish fighters on the front lines of the fight against ISIS.
And this video shows a police officer violently slamming an American high school student to the ground. We will take a closer look at what happened
in this shocking video.
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GORANI: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live in Paris this evening. Welcome to our viewers around the world. This is a special edition
of "The World Right Now".
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GORANI: It's another round of talks is and a week full of possible conversations on Syria. Diplomats from around the world are here in Paris
this evening. At this hour, they are probably having dinner with the French Foreign Minister, Laurent Fabius. They are discussing a possible transition
in Syria. A tall order for one working dinner especially considering the guest list.
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GORANI: Countries in green on this map were invited. They include the U.S., the U.K, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, among others, Russia, Iran and, importantly,
no Syrian representatives are on the guest list this evening.
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GORANI: CNN has just confirmed though that U.S. Officials say Iran will be included in the next round of talks on Syria. This is a first. Russia has
already been involved in one of those U.S. led sessions. But the Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov is already pointing out areas of disagreement
already.
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SERGEI LAVROV, RUSSIA FOREIGN MINISTER: (As translated) We are working in Syria, as you know, at the request of the Syrian government and as before
are aiming for all of our partners, Americans and countries in the region, to agree on one understanding of who represents a terrorist organization.
Such an understanding does not exist. It does not exist. I can say this honestly inside the coalition that was created by the United States for the
fight against the Islamic state and other terrorist groups.
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GORANI: Well, there is no understanding on this because one country's terrorist is another country's ally in the fight against ISIS. Turkey, for
instance is a leader in the region and a complicating military factor. Turkey's Prime Minister has confirmed striking Kurdish fighters inside
Syria in Tell Abyad even though those same Kurds are fighting ISIS. The Turkish acting foreign minister is here at the heart of the diplomatic
action in Paris tonight. I had the chance to sit down with Feridun Sinirlioglu for an exclusive interview. I started by asking him how Turkey
strikes against the YPG, the Kurdish fighters, fit in his country's strategy.
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FERIDUN SINIRLIOGLU, INTERIM TURKISH FOREIGN MINISTER: (inaudible) four years ago, four and a half years ago we thought that this will be if it
lasts too long, this country would turn into a safe haven of terrorists. And this is what's happening. And fighting the terror group doesn't make a
terror group a legitimate group.
GORANI: So you are saying the Kurds are terrorists?
SINIRLIOGLU: Nusra is also fighting (inaudible) but it doesn't make them a legitimate group. As we all say, these are not Kurds per se. I mean the
Kurds in Syria in the northern Syria are under the operation of that group. This is all very well actually depicted in the report of (inaudible).
GORANI: So you believe this makes the YPG, those fighters in the northern part of Syria, who have registered some victories against ISIS, legitimate
targets by the Turkish military.
SINIRLIOGLU: (Inaudible) a little victory over ISIS. But they are still a terror organization.
GORANI: So they -- that makes them legitimate targets, you believe?
SINIRLIOGLU: We are not targeting them in Tell Abyad yet. If they do not -- we have set three conditions actually. We've said if they do not cross to
the west Euphrates, if they do not target Turkey or if they do not attack Turkey, we will not target them. But if they do that then (inaudible).
GORANI: And it appears as though that's what happened. They tried to cross west of the Euphrates and there was a targeting operation.
SINIRLIOGLU: Yes, they did try to cross to the west of Euphrates and then we targeted them.
GORANI: So what you're --
SINIRLIOGLU: But it happened once, and they didn't try again.
[16:00:08]
GORANI: Russia has really entered over the last I believe now it's been a little more than a month that they started bombing in Syria, they've
authorized the bombing in Iraq. That hasn't happened yet. Why do you think Russia has entered this war now? What do you make of the timing?
SINIRLIOGLU: That question should be asked to them of course. I don't want to answer that question on their behalf. But for us this was a mistake. And
we told them so. I mean we told them that what they are doing is a big mistake. They are becoming part of a civil war which is not to their
interest, which is not to the interest of Syria, which is not to the interest of the regime as a whole. I don't see any reason for Russia being
involved directly.
GORANI: But they're supporting the regime of the President?
SINIRLIOGLU: Yes, they do they do support the regime, yes. But I mean the regime is just a part of the civil war.
GORANI: Yes. But are they not in a way shaping events a lot more than the U.S. has, has tried a few training of rebels but that kind of didn't amount
to anything? And Russia is very clearly engaging itself in a - in a conflict where it is having an impact. Like it or not, it's doing that
inside Syria.
SINIRLIOGLU: you know the United States is our ally and friend. We have been working on many issues together, including Syria. Of course they can
do more. This is what we have been telling them all along. For instance, we have been advocating the establishment of a no-fly zone, and a humanitarian
safe zone. I think they were not ready to go along with those suggestions. But I think they were able to do more. And we are continuing to ask them to
do more.
GORANI: Do you think the country will remain one?
SINIRLIOGLU: The main obstacle in front of the (unity) is Assad. What Assad is now - what Assad is now trying is actually basically carving out a
ministry out of (inaudible) in Syria. This is what we can see on the ground, what he is doing. You know in July when he said that I can no
longer extend my authority or my defense lines all over the country. He in a way confessed that he is going for plan b. This is what we are --
GORANI: So you think the territorial integrity of the country is very much at risk it sounds like?
SINIRLIOGLU: It is. Because of Assad.
GORANI: You speak of democracy and freedom and there are critics, I don't have to tell you this of current Turkish government, the government you're
the cabinet minister right now -- who are very unhappy with the jailing of some journalists. There's one in particular, Mohammed Rasoul, a Vice, he's
has been in for two months. Ahmed Akhan beaten, intimidated. Some journalists are saying we can't keep track of how many people are being
sued for "insulting the President." What is going on in Turkey with regards to press freedom?
SINIRLIOGLU: All of these are openly debated in Turkey. There is nothing hidden and nobody is in prison because of what he's writing, or because of
journalistic activities. The people who are in jail, what you have mentioned now, has some connection to terror groups. And you know public
order comes first.
GORANI: Even Ahmet Hakan who is one of the most .
SINIRLIOGLU: Ahmet Hakan, was beaten -
GORANI: respected journalist .
SINIRLIOGLU: .. by some - by some people and there is already a police investigation going on and there is court against that.
GORANI: OK, and Mohammed Rasool is very unhappy. They're saying he's a 25- year-old who was a fixer, who was assisting two British journalists. He's been in prison two months. Are any of these situations of journalists being
in prison, are any of the critics right to be concerned do you think?
SINIRLIOGLU: Of course there are concerns. And people are talking about it. But I'm telling you there are clear evidence that the guy you are
mentioning has direct connection to the terror group, which is responsible for a lot of terror activities in Turkey.
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GORANI: There you have it. My exclusive interview view Feridun Sinirlioglu, the Foreign Minister of Turkey. In a rare interview, he rarely speaks to
the media, and it's his only interview here, Christopher Dickey of the Daily Beast is here to join us in Paris. Thanks very much Christopher, you
had an opportunity to listen a little bit to what the Foreign Minister had to say. [16:10:08]
And it is interesting because YPG, we're talking Kurdish fighters in northern Syria, these are the fighters American is relying on to fight ISIS
and the Turks bombed them.
CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, EDITOR DAILY BEAST: Yes, but you know Hala, this is the problem with Syria and this whole situation. The enemy of my enemy is also
my enemy. Everybody is enemies and everybody has got potential alliances. It is like this mosaic of moving pieces that are constantly moving and
constantly shifting alliances. So we have a situation where people did in fact the United States consider to be terrorists, PKK and its extension,
which is the YPG, were considered to be terrorists by the United States until very recently. Now we're saying, well, we're going to make a
difference between the YPG and the PKK even though there is virtually no difference.
GORANI: And it's alphabet soup here but really what it highlights is the fact that this situation in Syria has reached such a level of complexity
with so many divergent interests and strategies inside the country that how can you have any hope that a talk in Vienna, even involving the Iranians
and the Russians will yield anything concrete?
DICKEY: Well the idea that external powers can impose a piece on Syria is truly wishful thinking. That's not going to happen. You're going to have to
have a lot more fighting and people are going to have to be a lot more exhausted, you'd think they'd be exhausted enough already. But the people
who are really driving this fighting, the fanatics of Nusra and ISIS and the fanatics that support Assad, they're not ready to stop yet. And what
you do have is external players, Russia, United States, Saudis, others, coming in there and saying, ok, you want to keep going, we'll let you keep
going. But you can keep them going but you can't stop them.
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GORANI: No and Russia added fuel with this bombing campaign to a civil war that already as it was a month ago was showing no sign of slowing down. But
this has added a certain level of energy back into this.
DICKEY: Well, they did. I mean you give the Russians credit too. Because they at least simplified things. The United States was in this position
where the enemy of my enemy is my enemy and we could never tell who was - who was who. We would try to train people and wind up instead of 5,000 we'd
wind up with five ready to go fight for us.
The Russians come in and say it's simple; it's us and Assad against ISIS and everybody else, and if the U.S. or Turkey or someone is supporting the
everybody else, we'll kill them too.
GORANI: One of the things I tweeted was it seems like everyone is invited to the Syria talks party except the Syrians. I mean regardless of who you
want to represent either --
DICKEY: Which Syrians though?
GORANI: Exactly which Syrians. But the fact that there are none is also telling, and the fact that it's every - and you mentioned it, every
external powers trying to force a -- some sort of resolution --
DICKEY: (Inaudible) Well really the fact that there are no Syrians tells the story. The idea that Assad is completely unacceptable to everybody but
the Russians and the Iranians.
And at the same time, there is no interlocutor on the other side that has any credibility. Let's say we could snap our fingers and be rid of Assad
tomorrow. Where is the opposition government that you could bring in that could maintain the state, the integrity of the state, the legitimacy of the
state, just the institutions of the state .
GORANI: . that's if there is a state left after this.
DICKEY: Yes, there would be nothing .
GORANI: . a unified country.
DICKEY: . It would be like Libya.
GORANI: All right, Christopher Dickey, we will see you a little bit later this hour as well.
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GORANI: We'll have a lot more on what's going on here in Paris and also on the talks regarding a possible solution for Syria. This is "The World Right
Now". Much more on this story still ahead this hour.
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GORANI: But first, drama on the high seas. Beijing is warning Washington to stay out of disputed water in the South China Sea. Getting tense, stay with
us.
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[16:16:47]
GORANI: Rescue workers are struggling to gauge the size of the devastation following Monday's massive earthquake in south Asia.
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GORANI The epicenter was in the mountainous north of Afghanistan near the border with Pakistan where the unstable security situation has posed a
major challenge. But the Taliban are urging aid agencies to push ahead with relief efforts. Nearly 350 people have died, 1,800 more are injured
following the quake. You can see how badly some of the areas have suffered from it.
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GORANI: Now, to a stern warning from China. A warning directed at the United States.
Beijing says the U.S. Military should stay out of what China claims are its territorial waters.
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GORANI: This dispute erupted after an American navy warship sailed near a manmade Chinese island in the South China Sea. But as CNN's Jim Scuitto
explains, the U.S. believes it did nothing to violate international law.
JIM SCUITTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. would like to make these trips routine to demonstrate that near view these are not Chinese
waters. These are international waters. Those man-made islands are not territory. They are illegal. But they're seen as anything but routine by
China. The equivalent of sailing a Chinese navy ship within 12 miles of New York City from their point of view, and you got an angry reaction today.
This is the second time this year the U.S. has delivered a message like this. You may remember in May, where in a spy plane, those pictures you are
seeing right now are from that trip over those islands to demonstrate from the U.S. perspective that the airspace over those islands is international
as well.
And I'll tell you the bridge of that U.S. navy warship is likely to have gotten a warning like we got in the cockpit of that U.S. P8 Poseidon spy
plane. Listen to what we heard then.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Foreign military aircraft. This is Chinese navy. You are approaching our military alert zone. Leave immediately. You go!
This is the Chinese navy. This is the Chinese navy. Please go away quickly.
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SCUITTO: That very much demonstration of how China sees these islands as their own. And I'll tell you today I've seen a lot of messages from the
Chinese Foreign Ministry, from Beijing, usually parsing words, but their reaction today did not parse words.
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SCUITTO: Here's what the Chinese Foreign Ministry had to say in reaction to this U.S. Navy ship sailing within those 12 miles. It says, if relevant
parties insist on creating tensions in the region and making trouble out of nothing, it may force China to draw the conclusion we need to strengthen
and hasten the buildup of our relevant capabilities. I advise the U.S. not to create such a self-fulfilling prophecy. China there saying in effect
they may have to militarize these islands more in response to the U.S. action.
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GORANI: All right. There you have it. Still to come tonight, we'll take you to the front lines of the fight against ISIS in Syria.
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GORANI: Where rag tag Kurdish fighters are holding their ground against some of the most feared militants in the world. Stay with us. We'll be
right back.
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GORANI: Well, you remember seeing dramatic video of a raid inside Iraq against an ISIS prison. Well, it seems as though the U.S. military may be
intending to use similar tactics in the war against ISIS, promising intensified attacks on several fronts.
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GORANI: Because the Defense Secretary, Ash Carter, says the strategy focusing on going after ISIS militants in their strongholds of Raqqa, in
Syria, and Ramadi in Iraq. He testified before a senate committee Tuesday saying the U.S. military will provide increased air support for local
forces but also said some raids could require American boots on the ground. Listen to Ash Carter.
ASH CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We won't hold back from supporting capable partners in opportunistic attacks against ISIL or conducting such
missions directly whether by strikes from the air or direct action on the ground.
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GORANI: Well, Kurdish forces are a key part of America's strategy against ISIS.
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GORANI: Outgunned and under equipped, YPG fighters have still managed to drive ISIS from much of their territory in northern Syria, So they are a
military success story. Now they are on patrol around the clock determined to hold their ground in Syria. CNN's Clarissa Ward has been touring the
frontlines held by Kurds in Hassakah province, and she filed this extraordinary look at life on the front lines.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: These men are at the core of America's latest strategy to defeat ISIS. Manning positions along a
vast and desolate front line with ISIS en trenched in villages just through the haze. They're fighters with the YPG; a force of roughly 30,000 Syrian
Kurds which backed by coalition air power has dealt decisive blows to Islamic state militants across northern Syria.
Commander (Bahous) is in charge of this front line position in the city of Hassakah which the YPG took from ISIS in August after months of fierce
clashes.
[16:25:07]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They tried to attack us again 10 days ago, we were prepared, so they didn't reach their target.
WARD: But they keep trying. Isis has control of the next village along, which is just over a mile in that direction. But the men at this base tell
us that ISIS fighters often go at night to that building just over there so that they can launch attacks on these positions.
The U.S. hopes the YPG will soon move from defense to offense, taking the fight to ISIS' stronghold in Raqqa. But at makeshift bases across the front
line the fighters we saw were lightly armed, poorly equipped, and exhausted by months of fighting. And senior commander (Linvand) knows the battles
ahead will be even tougher.
Can you take Raqqa without heavier weapons from the coalition?
COMMANDER (LINVAND)(As translated) The weapons we have are not high quality for this campaign we'll need new heavy weapons.
WARD: The most important weapon they do have but don't want to talk about is this device, which helps the YPG get exact coordinates for enemy
positions. Those coordinates are sent to a joint U.S./Kurdish operations room and minutes later fighter jets come screaming in.
(Rezzan) told us he was given a week of training before using the device. Who trained you how to use this?
(REZZAN, YPG FIGHTER) (As translated) Believe me, I can't say. When you finish the training, it's a secret. But they weren't speaking Kurdish.
WARD: A mystery, as is so much of the unfolding U.S. strategy in this critical corner of Syria.
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GORANI: Well, Clarissa joins us now live on the line. She is currently in Erbil in Iraq. So Clarissa clearly the U.S. is relying on these Kurdish
fighters in the battle against ISIS. Why are they not getting heavier weaponry to help them? What's the sticking point here?
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WARD: Well, I think the main reason that the U.S. is being so circumspect Hala, about its support for the YPG is because the YPG Kurdish fighters are
quite closely aligned with their Turkish counterparts, the PKK.
The PKK, as you well know, is considered to be a terrorist organization. And the Turkish President has said that he considers it to be the greatest
domestic threat that is facing Turkey. So obviously the U.S. here is kind of walking a diplomatic tightrope between trying to pursue this policy and
this strategy in Syria that it considers the best way to try to defeat ISIS. And between not wanting to destroy the relationship with Turkey and
moreover, not wanting to lose access to the crucial air Incirlik Air Base inside Turkey that has made U.S. air support in Syria that much easier.
GORANI: Well, in fact, today I spoke with the Turkish Foreign Minister and he confirmed that a Turkish strike against YPG fighters inside Syria in
Tell Abyad had taken place because they were moving west of the Euphrates. He said that was unacceptable to Turkey.
The fighters that you spend time with are they concerned about Turkish strikes against their position?
WARD: They are absolutely concerned about these Turkish strikes. For them they view Turkey in some ways as a more ominous adversary than any other
that they're facing internationally. They try to set themselves apart from the Turkish PKK. They insist that the groups are separate. But it's quite
clear Hala, when you spent time on the ground there are a lot of PKK fighters moving back and forth across the border. The PKK fighters, they're
known to be the best and they are certainly involved with a lot of the training as well. So certainly no surprise that Turkey is alarmed by the
U.S's increased support of the YPG.
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GORANI: All right. Clarissa Ward in Erbil, thanks very much. And all this week Clarissa will bring you a series of reports from inside Syria, in
northern Syria.
She visits the areas newly liberated from ISIS yet still vulnerable to attack, and meets the people defending the front lines there. That'll be
only on CNN this week.
This is a special edition of "The World Right Now" live from Paris. Coming up, we'll have much more on international efforts to try to find some sort
of a solution for Syria.
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GORANI: We're also going to look at the military strategies and how the U.S. might be changing its approach on the ground. Also, this dramatic
video from a classroom in the U.S. raising yet more questions about the actions of police in the United States. Stay with us.
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[16:33.22]
GORANI: Welcome back. A quick look at our top stories. Funerals have taken place for 13 Afghan school children killed in Monday's powerful earthquake
near the border with Pakistan.
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GORANI: Across the region at least 345 people died in that disaster. 2,000 injured. The 7.5 magnitude quake was felt as far away as India and
Tajikistan.
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GORANI: Also among the stories we're following, Amnesty International is blaming the Saudi-led coalition for intentionally carrying out five air
strikes on Doctors Without Borders hospital - a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Northern Yemen.
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GORANI: Riyadh is denying the charge saying it was not operating air raids in that area. MSF says the attack may amount to a war crime. There were no
immediate reports of casualties.
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GORANI: And American politics in the race for the White House, Ben Carson has taken the top spot nationwide among Republicans, according to a new
poll.
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GORANI: The survey by CBS News and the New York Times, shows Carson with 26% support compared with 22% for Donald Trump. It is within the margin of
error. But still this is the first time Trump has trailed in that poll which began in July.
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GORANI: We are coming to you live from Paris this evening where world leaders are discussing a political solution or transition inside war-torn
Syria or a strategy depending on which way you look at it. The conflict there has raged in some form or another since 2011.
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GORANI: Hundreds of thousands have died as the regime attacked its own people. Complicating the equation, the brutal rise of ISIS. There are
notable absences from tonight's working dinner. Russia, Iran, and Syria.
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[16:35:05]
GORANI: However, U.S. officials are confirming that Iran will be invited to the next set of talks this Friday. The U.S. could be offering more than
invitations as it considers stepping up its fight against ISIS on the ground inside Syria and Iraq.
Nick Paton Walsh joins us live from Gaziantep, Turkey to talk about America's next move. And Nick, we heard from the U.S. Defense Secretary Ash
Carter, on how the U.S. might be involving itself at ground level going forward against ISIS. Tell us more how this could actually play itself out
in Syria and Iraq.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, little detail frankly other than we would see more direct action. Now, that does
suggest an extension of what we saw last week and video of which over the weekend of the advice and assist mission that U.S. Special Forces were
given their Peshmerga counterparts when they did a jailbreak in north eastern Iraq liberating many Iraqis from ISIS.
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WALSH: Now that's supposed to involve U.S. trainers in the background but they were clearly the tip of the spear here, fighting their way into the
compound. Afterwards, Ashton Carter said we'd see more troops in harms way and more missions like that. And then this testimony in congress said we'd
see more direct action.
He emphasized three things. The three Rs he called them. Raids, maybe aerial or maybe on the ground, the possibility is you may see more raids
like the one you are seeing now or potentially something similar to what we saw in Afghanistan when night by night by night special forces go after
insurgent the middle ranking and high ranking leaders.
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WALSH: In that case, Taliban, and this case in ISIS. That was very effective in disrupting their command and control.
The other two Rs are Ramadi and Raqqa. Well Ramadi, the Sunni city in Western Iraq, that's long for now months been in ISIS' hands. No real signs
that Iraqi security forces are moving in effectively to retake it despite a lot of spin being pushed that that's imminent.
And then Raqqa. The capital of a self-declared ISIS caliphate.
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WALSH: Well the Kurds want to push in on that and there are air strikes moving around but frankly the idea of that city of thousands being laid
siege to effectively by the Kurdish forces, it's a long shot right now.
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WALSH: So ambition in what he's saying but details as to what happens in the days and weeks ahead scant. Although I personally feel you'll see an
expansion of the remit certainly in the public eye that U.S. Special Forces have against ISIS and Iraq in Syria, Hala.
GORANI: But this is not of course conventionally an involvement military on the ground. It's a lot more covert, it's a lot more secret. Is this a new
chapter in the U.S's Involvement in that part of the world where it's not as we saw as it was in the case of the Iraq invasion a very clear military
sort of engagement and involvement in that country. Something completely different here?
WALSH: There's no chance I think we'll see tens of thousands of American troops flooding into any part of Iraq or Syria sooner (inaudible). This is
probably a new chapter in the public role of U.S. Special Forces.
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WALSH: I don't want to sound too conspiratorial but it's entirely possible they have been doing more than we know about in the previous months.
There's been one raid killed what the U.S. said was a key ISIS leader Abu Sayab in Syria recently. And then this northeastern jailbreak in Iraq.
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WALSH: So some things we know about. Some things perhaps we don't know about. I think we may see more of an information campaign. That video that
came out over the weekend about the northeastern Iraqi (inaudible) Jailbreak, I think part of trying to explain to the American people again
and the rest of the world quite what the U.S. is prepared to do in its wars more towards the front lines with its own commandos. But it may involve a
slightly more complex or regular use of special forces targeting ISIS leadership, Hala.
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh, in Gazientep, Turkey, thanks very much for joining us. Let's get more from Christopher Dickey, he's world news editor
for the Daily Beast here in Paris.
So interesting hearing from Ash Carter, that there is going to be a new strategy. Providing air support for some of the fighters on the ground. But
also providing support in the background from American ground forces special ops forces in raids. It seems like this is kind of a new tactic.
DICKEY: Well in the background until they wind up in the foreground as they did on that prison raid.
GORANI: Which happened in Iraq.
DICKEY: I mean look -- I think we're going to wind up with special forces on the ground. I think we've probably have more special forces on the
ground already than we know about. Because that's what's needed to go after ISIS and these groups in relatively pinpointed fashion. I think what people
don't understand about President Obama when he talks about boots on the ground and troops, is that where he draws the line is the whole idea of
occupying a foreign country. If you remember, that's what we were doing under the Bush administration in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And the idea was to end all that. But these covert actions, these special forces operations, these are the kinds of things that Obama has favored
from the beginning. And the question is does that lead us down a slippery slope into a much wider involvement, or does it in fact, keep things enough
under control so we don't have to get more specifically involved.
[16:40:07]
GORANI: Well critics of that strategy will say in an open democracy, you need to know what your military is doing, there needs to be a public
discussion, there needs to be public support behind these initiatives and so if you go down that road .
DICKEY: Well, and the people who conduct these operations will say if we have all of that transparency we'll just get killed when we do these
operations. That's the difference.
GORANI: OK, well but let's look a little bit forward to the United States potentially, and you mentioned this slippery slope. It's usually difficult
when you engage - when there is the beginning of a military engagement on a smaller scale to keep it there. That's usually the biggest challenge. In
the case like Syria it's going to be difficult.
DICKEY: Well that is, and the more - and what we saw and have seen again, and again, is the more troops you put in, then the more support personnel
you have to put in and the more you have to put in to protect the troops who are there from outside forces. So it grows and grows and grows until
you have a situation where you have 150,000 troops on the ground. That's the fear. I think that President Obama is very well aware of the dangers
that are posed there. And nobody in the United States, including all the hawks in congress, nobody wants to see any large number of troops on the
ground in Syria.
GORANI: What's going to work for Syria here because in Iraq there was the disastrous invasion. We even heard the sort of shadow of an apology from
Tony Blair over the weekend.
DICKEY: It should be more than that.
GORANI: In Libya, it was a bombing campaign with no boots on the ground. In Syria it's a timid arming of rebels that went nowhere and (inaudible)
DICKEY: It's doing the absolute minimum.
GORANI: But neither approach worked. Right? So you can argue what approach do you need?
DICKEY: Well the question is what works? Can the United States cut through the Gordian knot, unravel all those bits and pieces and say now the problem
is solved. No. Even Alexander The Great screwed up after he did that. No, there's no way to do it.
I think that the basic attitude of the Obama administration and let's face it of the American people is, this is not our fight. This is sad. It's
dangerous, it's potentially explosive. But at the end of the day the Syrian war is not a problem the Americans can solve.
GORANI: But it's a problem the Russians feel they are able to at least make a difference.
DICKEY: Well I think there are a lot of people -- there are a lot of people in the United States who say, go for it.
GORANI: Really? So you think essentially they are saying, listen, if you want to get involved in that, (inaudible) be my guest?
DICKEY: Sure. And look at what's happening. Already the U.S. is supplying through the Saudis tow anti-tank missiles. And in fact instead of rolling
over all of these forces that the Russians thought they could just eliminate overnight, they find that they are having a lot of their tanks
blown up, or the Syrian tanks on the ground are being blown up, and they're not making the advances in various parts of Syria where they expected to.
No I think the U.S. is going to play one of those games where they will support people who will fight the Russians too. At the same time they're
sitting down for talks here in Paris.
GORANI: Well and of course in the middle of all that, the Syrians themselves suffering practically I mean I think to a -- you wonder what
more they can endure. Half the country is displaced.
Thank you so much, Chris Dickey, as always it's a pleasure speaking with you and getting your insights.
This is The World Right Now. Coming up the FBI is now investigating this incident in an American classroom which is causing outrage all around the
world.
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GORANI: We'll have the full story in just a few minutes.
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GORANI: The FBI is now investigating a confrontation between an officer and a high school student in South Carolina that is causing outrage.
GORANI: Footage captured on a cell phone shows the deputy flipping the female student over while she's inside of her desk and then dragging her
toward the front of the classroom.
As Jason Carroll reports, it's once again raising questions about police behavior.
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FIELDS: Are you going to come with me or am I going to make you?
JASON CARROLL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: South Carolina Sheriff's deputy Ben Fields, seen here, is on administrative duty, after his violent
takedown of a high school student was caught on camera Monday afternoon. You can see the sheriff's deputy tossing a female student to the ground
after she refused to get up from her desk, then throwing her across the classroom floor.
FIELDS: Put your hands behind your back. Give me your hands. Give me your hands.
LT. CURTIS WILSON, RICHLAND COUNTY SHERRIFF'S DEPT: We don't want everyone to rush to judgment. But we also feel that the video was very, very
disturbing.
CARROLL: According to police, the Richland County student was asked to leave the classroom. When she refused, Fields was called in to arrest her
for disturbing class. School officials say the video is "extremely disturbing." And has banned the deputy from all district schools pending an
investigation.
The sheriff's department who's also looking into the matter says it's still unclear what happened before the cameras started rolling.
WILSON: We'll have to look at this in its totality to understand exactly what happened. Is this a pattern? Is this something that he's done before.
CARROLL: The deputy has been the subject of two lawsuits in the last 10 years. In 2007, a couple claimed he used excessive force when questioning
them about a noise complaint. The husband says Fields slammed him to the ground, cuffed him, and began kicking him. But the jury ruled in Fields's
favor in 2010.
In 2013, a student claimed Fields falsely accused the teen of being involved in a gang. The school expelling him. That lawsuit is ongoing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you see a video like what we have seen earlier today, it certainly alarms you and makes you a little bit afraid of what is
actually happening within our schools.
CARROLL: The deputy has been working for the school district for seven years and was recently awarded the culture of excellence award in 2014 for
proving to be what they say was an exceptional role model to the students.
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GORANI: Frankly it's difficult to actually watch that video without almost feeling some degree of physical pain the young lady there - young woman in
the classroom must have felt. CNN's Miguel Marquez is following the story, he is on the phone from Columbia, South Carolina, not far from where this
happened. So why is the FBI being brought in, Miguel?
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MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's very, very aggressive in his desire to prove to the entire community and to the school that
everything is being done to ensure as fair and as open investigation as possible.
So as I understand the (inaudible) office they have talked to the officer, to those that are involved. They have taken statements from as many people
as they can, including the school and they are turning that all over to the FBI which says that they will investigate this so that it's a completely
independent investigation which is something that activists here on the ground were already asking for. Hala?
GORANI: And explain something to international viewers. I mean I found it surprising that a classroom disturbance would require the presence of a
police officer. Why did -- why are they calling the police for something that sounds quite minor?
MARQUEZ: This is precisely one of the concerns that people here want to have a discussion about going forward. This officer is called a school
resource officer. Over the years, particularly since the Columbine shooting in Colorado, there have been many of these individuals hired up by police
officers throughout the country. In Richland county here, there are 87 of these SROs as they call them. And this is one concern. That they were hired
initially to provide security for schools that may have concerns about guns and violence in schools but are now being called in to affect for things
such as unruly students in classrooms. And it turns into this. They say it's all on its head now, and it's got to be looked at.
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GORANI: And what do we know about the victim in this case, the young woman who was slammed to the ground?
MARQUEZ: We don't know a lot. We know she is a minor, we believe she is 16 years old. She was in class. We understand that she may have been using a
cell phone, didn't want to give it up. One student said that she was asked several times by the teacher, and then an administrator, and then by the
deputy sheriff or the SRO that she had to come with them. She refused over and over again and then it turned into what you saw.
I will say that the sheriff has already told many people in this community that he's appalled by the video. He thinks that the use of force was --
went too far and it could have been handled in a much, much better way. Hala?
GORANI: All right, Miguel Marquez, thanks very much. He is joining us from South Carolina. Thank you.
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GORANI: And don't forget, you can get all the latest news, our analysis and interviews and we have a cool time lapse today on our Facebook page.
Facebook.com/halagoranicnn. Facebook.com/halagoranicnn. Check it out.
Coming up, the new James Bond will no doubt be action packed, full of cool gadgets and fast cars. Next, we'll tell you about a new website that can
help you become more like Bond.
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GORANI: Stay with us.
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GORANI: Have you ever thought to yourself, gee, I really want to live exactly like every single James Bond that's ever starred in film? Well,
Spectre as you know held its premiere last night in London. And if you would like to live the exact life style of the debonair secret agent, one
website has actually taken the time to identify all the gadgets, all the clothes, all the accessories ever used in the franchise. We spoke to the
site's founder about his love for all things Bond.
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REMMERT VAN BRAAM: My love for James Bond's gadgets and accessories and clothing items started at a young age really when I was watching the Bond
movies with my parents.
I was always interested in remaking the little watches with gadgets. I started Bond's lifestyle in 2005, one year before Casino Royale came out,
and it grew really quickly.
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VAN BRAAM: Currently the website has more than 15,000 visitors a day. And Facebook following of more than 125,000. There is a huge fan world out
there and especially when a new movie comes out. Everybody turns out to be a closet Bond fan of course.
I'm currently wearing a three-piece suit, the same suit won by Sean Connery in "Goldfinger." And with the suit I'm wearing this Omega watch, which will
feature in "Spectre" with some special gadget functions, which I won't you know reveal. But you have to see the movie.
The fans gather on forums or sometimes the companies themselves know it is going to be in the movie so they provide me the information. So there's
many different ways to find out.
Sometimes we get inside information from people working on the set. Names we cannot name, of course. There's a lot of different Bond fans, I will
say. And there's people that which include me as the people who focus on the clothing items and accessories and wear them actually in real life, we
call the lifestylers basically, people that try to be Bond in a way but in a subtle way.
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GORANI: This has been a special edition of The World Right Now. I'm Hala Gorani coming to you live from Paris. Thanks for watching. Quest Means
Business is up next.
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