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Hala Gorani Tonight
Paris Attack Mastermind Killed. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 19, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:55]
HALA GORANI, HOST: Welcome, everybody, thanks for joining us once again in Paris this evening for a special edition of The World Right Now. I'm coming
to you live from Paris' Place de la Republique. We have some major developments on this day in the terror investigation.
The man who investigators say orchestrated the attacks is dead.
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GORANI: It has been confirmed Abdelhamid Abaaoud was killed during Wednesday's raid in the northern suburb of Saint-Denis. He's been described
as the man who orchestrated the Friday attacks, the ring leader. Some of the terms have been used to describe him.
But another key suspect, however, remains at large, and we have new sound recorded moments before a female suicide bomber Abaaoud's cousin blew
herself up. This is as the raid was unfolding. You will hear the voice of a police officer and then you will hear a voice responding. Listen. [ gunfire
]
It was basically "where is your boyfriend" and the voice responds "he is not my boyfriend," then you hear shots ringing out. Today French police
searched the bomber's mother's house on the outskirts of Paris in (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Our Nic Robertson has been tracing all the threads of this complicated investigation and he joins me now live from our bureau here in
Paris.
Nic, tell us more about first of all the significance of the death of Abaaoud and the fact that he was in France at all.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the significance was clarified by the interior minister today describing him as
a decisive player in the attacks almost a week ago now Friday.
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ROBERTSON: He also described essentially how the investigation is going to grow out from here because he said that Abaaoud had contacts with known
Jihadists inside France, that they were trying to track those people down. He also painted a picture here of a man not just having a decisive role in
the Friday attacks, but he said that he had been, Abaaoud, had been involved in four of six failed attempts, terrorist attempts in France since
spring this year.
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ROBERTSON: The operation to capture him or kill him, as it turned out in this case, began in the early hours of Wednesday morning.
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ROBERTSON: 4:20 a.m. on Wednesday, an elite French police unit closes in on an apartment building in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis. Intelligence,
wiretaps, bank transfers have led them to this low income neighborhood. Their target, this man, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspect ring leader in a
stripping of terror plots.
Police make their way to a third floor but an explosive charge fails to open the security door. A ferocious gun battle erupts, and continues for an
hour. Three people are quickly arrested, but there are now still two or three people inside, including a woman. They throw grenades. Police fire
5,000 rounds into the apartment.
After the scene quiets down, police send in an attack dog named diesel, to check for signs of life. Diesel is shot dead. A police sniper shoots one of
the terrorists inside. Injured, he continues to fire back. A police officer shouts to the woman, "where is your boyfriend?" she yells back, "it's not
my boyfriend" then a loud explosion. Police say the woman detonated a suicide vest. It turns out she is the cousin of Abaaoud.
But its several more hours before police can enter the building where they find a scene of carnage. Two men are detained but there are the remains of
two or even three bodies inside. French forensic experts race to discover whether Abaaoud is one of them, but amid the severe carnage have to move
slowly.
[15:05:12]
ROBERTSON: More than 24 hours pass before the prosecutor's office in a two- line statement says "the bullet ridden body is Abaaoud's."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Among the six attacks that have been avoided or foiled since spring of this year, Abaaoud seems to have been involved in four of
them.
ROBERTSON: A victory against terrorism, but many questions remain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Well those questions include for the French the fact that they didn't know that he was on French territory, that they didn't realize that he had come
back from Syria, slipped unknown across the borders into Europe. They got a -- they got a tip from Moroccan intelligence officials on the 16th
November, that's three days after the attack last Friday. They then used the wire taps to figure out where Abaaoud was so within 48 hours they're
going in on that operation.
So the tip comes from the Moroccans, but really the question this leaves open right now is, how many other of Abaaoud's associates have done the
same thing, have slipped undetected back into Europe? Hala?
GORANI: All right, Nic Robertson is in Paris, our senior diplomatic editor, joining us with the latest on the investigation. How did this Abaaoud
manage to cross international borders and get right into Paris? We were led to believe he wasn't even in the country at all.
To discuss that and how young people become radicalized in general I'm joined by a he's a researcher in Jihadism, an expert in that field at The
Institute of Political Studies here in Paris. Hugo, first of all let's talk a little by about the fact that this Abaaoud was in France apparently the
entire time.
HUGO MICHERON, JIHADISM RESEARCHER: Yes, it shows the failure of European intelligence as a whole and of French intelligence particularly.
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MICHERON: But it also shows one other thing which is the overlapping between you know home-grown Jihadism on the one hand and on the other hand
Jihadism from Syria, the ISIS grown Jihadism.
GORANI: This is new oxygen to the phenomenon, it's a new fuel that didn't exist just two, three years ago.
MICHERON: It existed as French being fighting in Syria, but the extent -- the volume of fighters like actually coming back in force from Syria is a
new thing.
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MICHERON: The violence of the attack as well. You know, it's the first time in France history and possibly in Europe history, recent history that we
have actually some suicide bombers, you know, blowing themselves up in the middle of Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Right, suicide bombers at least one female suicide bomber, which is also unprecedented.
MICHERON: Yes.
GORANI: And also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a military operation in a Paris suburb with 5,000 rounds of ammunition, grenades, controlled
detonations. This building is practically going to fall down right now. Has this happened before in recent memory?
MICHERON: No. I don't think so, the fire fights they were ferocious. And actually all the attacks since Friday, like mark a new phase in the
French history and possibly in the European history because we haven't seen this kind of level of violence on French soil since World War II.
GORANI: So what comes next now? We have an extension of the state of emergency.
MICHERON: Yes.
GORANI: How do you combat this type of radical Jihadism in young people who go and come back much more hardened than even when they left?
MICHERON: Absolutely you're right. Actually what we have noticed is like often when they leave, they are radicalized or pre-radicalized, but the
person, the fighters will come back from Syria, actually like super radicalized if I may say so.
So we have - we have a problem here, and the first thing is to prevent them to go there, for that very reason.
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MICHERON: The second thing that we need to understand is that security measures are not sufficient to sort of like combat to fight radicalization
GORANI: What do you mean by security measures? You mean surveillance? You mean arrests? you mean monitoring of sort of perhaps extremist gathering
points and meetings? That's not enough?
MICHERON: Obviously. I mean you have seen that all of these - all of the attackers identified so far are either French born and raised, or Belgium
born and raised. Abaaoud the so-called ring leader was educated in one of the best Belgian top secondary school, so these guys are from here.
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MICHERON: We have something to do here as well. It's what I call, I mean what is called homegrown Jihadism but before that step, we have something
to do. And to that extent, France as a whole is late. Compared to the U.K. for instance, where like previous programs launched in 2005, the French de-
radicalization program was launched in April 2014, it's very late.
GORANI: So it's much later than the U.K.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:10:03]
GORANI: Hugo Micheron, thank you very much we really appreciate your expertise and analysis on this. Hugo, you may have seen this video from
inside one of the restaurants, it's a closed circuit footage obtained by "thedailymail.com, it shows the horrifying scene that played out at one of
the cafes that was attacked and one woman's very lucky escape.
Here's Poppy Harlow.
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POPPY HARLOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For a moment it's a normal nights at this Parisian cafe but then debris flies, people inside the
restaurant dive for cover.
You see the gunman circled here. A woman rushes inside clutching her hand. Another person dives to the door behind her. Then the shooter comes near
the door, he points his gun at two people on the ground but it does not go off.
Seconds later, one woman who was inches away from that gun gets up and looks around and she runs away. The other woman gets up grabs a bag and
runs.
From another angle two people behind the bar duck down. The man runs down the stairs. The other person who appears to be a waitress stays down and
then pulls that woman clutching her hand behind the counter where they crouch together.
And a third angle, people dive under tables, covering their heads as bullets fly. You see that woman run in again, before more debris falls in
front of the camera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, there you have it, just absolutely chilling images. Still to come this evening --
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH FAR-RIGHT LEADER: The government, successive governments have been totally lax, guilty.
GORANI: I sit down with the influential French politician and leader of the anti-immigration far right national front, Marine Le Pen. I ask her if
she's trying to turn this tragedy to her political advantage.
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GORANI: Welcome back. We are live in Paris. The leader of France's National Front, a party of the far right in this country, had an anti-immigrant,
anti-refugee agenda long before the attacks in Paris.
But after the horror of last Friday, Marine Le Pen reiterated more forcefully her call on French authorities to immediately stop any more
migrants from entering the country. Le Pen spoke to me earlier about what she's proposing in this international exclusive. I began by asking her if
she was using this whole tragic situation to her political advantage.
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LE PEN: (As translated) I did not use the attempts - the terrorist attempts to stop immigration and refugees, 1 million refugees in 2015, 3 million, I
think -- I just think this is crazy. I have been saying it for a long time since 2011.
However, I had also warned the French and the authorities very clearly that there will be in these immigrants terrorists who will infiltrate into. And
this is exactly what has happened.
So confronted with this reality of this threat, I think we have to make an urgent decision.
GORANI: But it has not been proven that this is a Syrian man, it could have been a stolen passport. We don't have definitive proof of any of this, so
how can you jump to those conclusions?
LE PEN: (As translated) But that passport, whether it's real or false, what came through Greece, came through Serbia and came to Paris, so there is
someone who accompanied that passport and made that journey.
So given this kind of huge threat, and which is literally a declaration of war to France, we cannot take the risk. It questions the safety. It
challenges the safety of French, and I am here to fight for the safety of the French.
GORANI: You talk of 3 million potential migrants over the next few years. France has only accepted or agreed to accept tens of thousands. Those
numbers don't correspond to reality at all, do they?
LE PEN: (As translated) Yes, but 3 million comes from the European Commission for the whole union, European Union. Yes, but you have to
understand, but there are no more frontiers exist. All national frontiers are gone, but however when Germany takes 800,000 people, it is incapable of
looking after those refugees. The moment they have legal status, they can go anywhere in Europe.
So this idea of a few thousands that have come here, I am from Calais, that region, and I can tell you that it is a totally crazy situation, they're
mad to say it's only that amount. Multiply that by three just for Calais.
So there is a huge amount of immigration coming in, and this is going to add to the high immigration.
GORANI: This is the message of ISIS, be afraid of everyone. They want to terrorize the world. Are you not simply also repeating the same message?
LE PEN: (As translated) It is the argument that was immediately developed by Mr. Obama and Madam Merkel and by the U.N.
Yes, so the idea that they want to develop, I will say once again, I'm here to protect the safety of the French. I can see that the United States,
certain some of them believe now to receive Syrian refugees is to take a risk that's not acceptable.
There are other solutions that we have been suggesting for years, which mean to put humanitarian centers, where we can look after the population,
who are genuinely in danger, close as possible to their country, to their territories, instead of bringing them here to do what? To house them where?
To give them what jobs? Whereas we are currently suffering from huge unemployment. We are having problems looking after our own people, and we
have high deficits already.
GORANI: Most of the terrorists who have been identified are born here in France. What should be done to prevent this?
LE PEN: The government, successive governments have been totally lax, guilty in that these terrorists tick all the boxes.
[15:20:10]
LE PEN: One had been, had a whole litany of petty crimes. One had already been questioned. He was able to just go off to Syria, then come back. One
of the Islamists managed to escape because we allowed him to go. We live in this lax times, irresponsible times. Sarkozy's government and Hollande's
government are both guilty in neglecting the fight against Islamist fundamentalism. You have to fight against the ideology, which is behind
that terrorism, and that has not been, that fight has not been taken, taken on, and it is time to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it, Marine Le Pen, the leader of the Anti- Immigration Far Right Party, The National Front. We'll have a much, much more different perspective coming up later in the show. I'll speak with a
representative of a group that campaigns against Islamaphobia. Yasser Louati will join me at Place de la Republique in about 20 minutes.
Coming up, state of emergency.
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GORANI: France's national assembly votes to extend the government's sweeping extra powers for three more months. I'll speak to the deputy
editor-in-chief of "Le Monde" newspaper.
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MANUEL VALLS, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER: (As translated) The grim imagination of those given orders have no limit, assault rifles, beheadings, human
hunt, knives are all the same, perpetrated by individuals or in this case by commandos and very well organized. We can't exclude anything today and I
say this with all the precaution it calls for, but we know it, we have it in mind. There can be the risk of chemical and biological weapons.
[15:25:15]
GORANI: Manuel Valls, is the French Prime Minister here a very stark warning from him, he says attacks by ISIS using chemical weapons cannot be
ruled out. Imagine the fear level here already where it is and then hearing this from the Prime Minister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Valls was speaking at a session of lower parliament where lawmakers voted pretty overwhelmingly to extend the state of emergency in France
through February of next year.
What does this measure do?
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GORANI: Now it gives police sweeping more powers and goes to the French senate. It is expected to vote on the matter on Friday. Let's get more on
the extension of the state of emergency, what it will mean and also analysis to my interview with Marine Le Pen.
I'm joined here at Place de La Republique by Nabil Wakim, deputy editor-in- chief of "Le Monde."
Thanks for being with us.
NABIL WAKIM, DEPUTY EDITOR IN CHIEF, LE MONDE: Thank you for having me.
GORANI: First one of the interesting to put someone like Marine Le Pen, she is telling her citizens that refugees, Syrian and other refugees represent
an Islamist menace and that within them there are terrorists who are going to threaten the safety of France.
I asked her, but isn't that exactly what ISIS would want? So it seems as though at least in terms of the message there are actually similarities
there.
WAKIM: I think you're right. I think this is a good question. This is the good question. You have to understand and I'm sure you have seen it that
this has been a nightmare for Parisians, a nightmare for French people, since Friday night. And to see Marine Le Pen trying to get political
leverage of this event is really infuriating, because what she is saying, she is saying that if we close the borders, if we don't let immigrants in,
we will stop terrorism.
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WAKIM: But as you've said it before, most of these terrorists grew up in France or in Belgium. So the question we have to answer, the question we
have to tackle altogether of the French society is how do we find solutions to live together, not how we divide the people much more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: You're talking about Marine Le Pen trying to gain political leverage. It's not just her. I mean every politician it seems in the
aftermath of these attacks come out made speeches, made statements, criticized the other. There was booing going on at the parliament just a
few days ago. I mean, so it hasn't been the most solemn period of reflection for France, has it?
WAKIM: Absolutely, and this is a huge difference with what happens after the "Charlie Hebdo" attack. Everybody was really shocked and there was a
true national unity, at least for a few days which is very hard to have in France. This is not the case here.
Because of the nature of the attacks, the feelings that anybody can be targeted, the fear is here. It is true. People are afraid. And so all
politicians are trying to take advantage of this fear.
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WAKIM: And it is true that the state of emergency will help the police and judges to find maybe solutions or leads on the investigation, but it is
also a political statement to tell French citizens we're doing something. We are being hard on terrorism.
GORANI: Will there be Nabil -- sorry to jump in, but will there be a before and after November 13th, 2015? Do you think this is a game changer and in
what way?
WAKIM: I think it is. I think it is. And the difference with "Charlie Hebdo," is that as I was saying the attacks can target anybody.
So it was in a way after the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks, people felt solidarity with the journalists who have been attacked, with the Jewish
people who have been attacked, with the policemen who have ban tacked. But now it's like everybody.
And so people - we're here on the Place de la Republique and you don't see thousands of people demonstrating together to say there's solidarity. And
this is what happened in January, it is not happening now.
I think French people understand much more now, sadly, what happened to the New Yorkers or the Londoners in 2001 or 2005, that you have to live with
this fear and this is very hard for us.
GORANI: Okay, so quick, take us a little bit forward to the next several months. How will this have changed France, do you think fundamentally or
will it be temporary?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAKIM: Well, we can always hope that there will be a positive consequence, that people will think about how we can live together, what are the
failures of our society and how we can try to build community and not divide people.
Sadly I'm afraid that this is not what is going to happen. What is probably going to happen is that we're going to have local elections in December,
and the National Front and very Conservative parties are going to get a lot of votes, and they will probably win some of the major regions. And then we
will enter the cycle of the Presidential election and all the discussion of the President's election might be I'm afraid about immigration, Islam, the
place of Islam and France, the control at the borders, what we do with the European Union.
GORANI: We've got to leave it there. Nabil Wakim of La Monde, thank you very much. We'll be speak in fact with a gentleman who represents the
collective against Islamaphobia, so I'll be asking him for his thoughts as well on all of this. Nabil thank you very much, a pleasure.
[15:30:10]
GORANI: Still to come, French authorities say the ring leader of the Paris massacre had been involved in planning four other attacks this year alone.
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GORANI: We'll have an in-depth look at this man.
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GORANI: Welcome back everybody. I'm Hala Gorani at Place de la Republique here in Paris and updating you on the major developments this day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The French Interior Minister is confirming that Abdelhamid Abaaoud was killed in a police raid early Wednesday. He says he played a decisive
role in the massacre, calling him a ring leader.
Also among major developments this day, French lawmakers are backing the government's bid for sweeping powers to fight the terrorist threat. Today
the National Assembly approved extending a state of emergency by three months. The measure is going to have to be approved by the senate tomorrow.
And meantime, authorities in Belgium have arrested nine people in new raids connected to the Paris attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, there are some new chilling details connected to Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the ring leader, which is what the Interior Minister of
this country is calling him of the Paris attacks. Who was he, how did he become radicalized? Here's Christiane Amanpour. [ gunfire ]
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[15:35:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Gunfire and explosions mark the start of a dawn raid by French police. A raid that
resulted in the death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected ringleader of the horrific attacks in Paris.
Intelligence experts believe Abaaoud, a Belgian national, traveled to Syria in 2014 to join ISIS. There, he forged close ties with its leader, Abu Bakr
al Baghdadi. And he's expected to have been the likely link between senior Islamic state figures and ISIS operatives in Europe, and is said to have
been hunted by western powers.
I asked U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry about that when he visited Paris this week. Can you confirm for us news of one of the terrorists
suspected in this attack Abdelhamid Abaaoud, there are reports that the United States, France, and other allies wanted to target him, sought to
kill him in Syria. He is apparently a top level Belgian citizen ISIS member.
JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well I can confirm that he's an ISIS member and top level but I can't confirm whether he was targeted or not.
AMANPOUR: Earlier this year in January, Belgian commandos raided an ISIS safehouse in the Belgian town of (inaudible). The ensuing 10 minute
gunfight left two terrorists dead and another in custody. Inside commandos found weapons, fake travel documents and precursor chemicals to make TATP,
the same explosive used in the Paris attacks.
According to security services, a ten-member terror cell led by Abaaoud was in the final stages of planning a major terrorist attack in Belgium.
Counter terrorism officials believe that he was in contact with three of the fighters via cell phone calls which were traced to Greece.
In February this year, the ISIS online magazine "Dabiq" claimed to conduct an interview with Abaaoud, in which he boasted about being able to enter
Europe and return to Syria at will, saying "my name and picture were all over the news, but I was able to stay in their homeland, plan operations
against them, and leave safely."
Senior Belgian counterterrorism officials said it was possible that he was able to return to Syria from Greece, hearing nothing from him after he
traveled to Syria, officials believe he had faked his own death so that he could easily travel to and from Europe to coordinate the Belgian plot, a
tactic they believe freed him to plan and execute the atrocities that left more than 100 dead and hundreds more injured in Paris.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well over the last several days France has intensified its strikes against ISIS. Francois Hollande the President here has announced an even
further intensification of this aerial bombardment campaign.
We find our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh inside Syria this evening with more on what potential impact these strikes are
having on ISIS positions and specifically the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa. Nick?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hala, tonight they are again reporting activists inside Raqqa, air strikes. We
don't know the numbers of this stage and we don't know the damage readout really.
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WALSH: We do know that in the past three nights before tonight there's been recruitment centers, command centers, training centers. The French say
they've been hitting the coalition also, hitting ISIS positions as well. The key question though really is what comes of the civilians there.
This massive uptick in targets suddenly available for three, possibly four different air forces in the air, well that surely must be having some
impact on those forced to stay inside the city by ISIS, if you've already endured their brutality.
We had the first reports last night of six or seven dead and eight injured after a fuel truck was hit. We don't know who hit it, although the Russians
did say in the last 24 hours they've been going for the oil infrastructure in that area.
And reports, too, that potentially ISIS leaders have tried to leave towards the east, we certainly have activists saying they're changing their
patterns of life, that's often the case since the drones have been in the air.
The real issue I think is, has this intense bombardment began to zap their morale? Are they thinking about the potential of having to leave Raqqa at
some point, and two, as we are hearing inside Syria, so many Kurdish forces gathered to the north of that city, Raqqa, talking about advancing on it.
They don't really have the manpower or the weapons frankly to do it in an overwhelming fashion but still that talk is strong and we have to wait and
see whether or not the air strikes are leading that way for that or what other plans the French or maybe the Russians have inside Syria against the
key ISIS stronghold. Hala?
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GORANI: Now if the air strikes are on any level able to weaken ISIS in Raqqa to the extent some ISIS fighters with their families are fleeing,
operationally, strategically, what impact does it have on the group to lose total control of Raqqa?
[15:40:05]
WALSH: It will be a massive symbolic blow. I mean, unprecedented if they lost Raqqa, if they have to leave because of bombardments or a ground
advance, that would be them surrendering their caliphate.
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WALSH: They would struggle to get people --
GORANI: All right, apologies there, we lost our connection with Nick Paton Walsh, reporting live from inside Syria, just a bit of a technical problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: We will try to get back in touch with nick in the coming hours. This is "The World Right Now" live from Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Coming up you're looking at pictures of a Muslim man offering hugs to other mourners in Paris. Ahead why Muslims are fearing backlash over the
Friday attacks, and what a spokesman in this country is saying about his concerns regarding Islamaphobia. We'll be right back.
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LUIS GUTIERREZ, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: Certainly in America there has to be a place for a child that is about to be sold into slavery by ISIS, or a child
that is about to be bombed or murdered or sent into starvation by Assad. There has to be a place in America for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was U.S. House democrat Luis Gutierrez giving you a sense of some of the debate on Capitol Hill in Washington.
A short time ago the house approved a measure effectively pausing the Syrian refugee program, which wasn't great in scope to begin with. The
political climate has shifted in America after it was discovered that one of the Paris attackers may have slipped into Europe disguised as a refugee.
The far right party leader Marine Le Pen tells me it's too risky to welcome any Syrian refugees to France at all. She points to a Syrian passport found
near one of the attackers, even though police say the name on that document is likely fake, I pressed her on that. Listen to her argument.
[15:45:08]
LE PEN: (As translated) But that passport, whether it's real or false, went -- came through Greece, came through Serbia, and came to Paris, so there is
somebody who accompanied that passport, and made that journey. So given this kind of huge threat and which is literally a declaration of war to
France, we cannot take the risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, the backlash against Syrian refugees and against people who happen to be Muslim in this country is making global headlines. It is
so pronounced that today the U.S. State Department invoked the first U.S. President George Washington who said "America is open to receive not only
the respectable stranger but the oppressed and persecuted of all nations."
Now Yasser Louati is a spokesman for the coalition against Islamaphobia in France, and he's with me now. Yasser Louati, thanks for being with us.
Now Marine Le Pen was talking about the fake Syrian passport or this man that presumably came into Europe disguised as a refugee. But the reality is
that of all the people identified, most were born in either France or in Belgium and were radicalized. So what is the problem there with regards to
this very small group of individuals who are vulnerable to radicalization?
YASSER LOUATI, SPOKESMAN COALITION AGAINST ISLAMAPHOBIA IN FRANCE: Actually we can't even speak about religion playing any role. We have a social
failure here in France that minorities go through, having go through for the past 40 years and again we can't keep connecting Muslims with this
radicalization. Every single study shows that radicalization takes place outside of the community, outside of mosques, and outside of any families.
We even had families reporting their own children to the police and the police doing nothing about it.
But unfortunately, we again had an intelligence failure, and the police not doing its work, and now the backlash is being felt by the Muslim minority
in France.
GORANI: So, but the radicalization happens somewhere. How does it happen then?
LOUATI: Muslims can only control what they have their hands on, which means their mosques, their schools and sometimes their homes. And when children
are taken away from the families, and when they get radicalized on the internet or some clandestine circles they can't do much about it. All
Mosques in France are highly scrutinized. Imams as well, and Muslims do report any radical who comes in the mosque preaching crazy ideas.
GORANI: So you're saying it happens online?
LOUATI: Mostly online and of course we have to look at --
GORANI: Or in prison, that's happened in past.
LOUATI: Or in prison. I mean it's like social club for terrorists in a prison. They put them all together and sometimes we send people who are
not terrorists, who may come out with a sense of revenge. And unfortunately the starting point of these radicals is that when they start feeling that
they don't belong to this country, that they need to seek revenge. Which means that we have a broader issue to address than simply targeting people.
GORANI: Because they come back from Syria, and they are extreme, they're even more radicalized than when they left and they are murdering their
fellow countrymen and women I mean in cold blood.
LOUATI: So this proves again that radicalization does not happen within the French Muslim minority nor anywhere else in Europe. It always takes place
outside. And again --
GORANI: -- but it does happen a bit inside, I mean you have it in prison, you have it in some circles where radicalization does start in Europe and
extend itself outside of Europe.
LOUATI: But the Muslim minority in France, in Europe, has no control over prisons and it has no control over who goes to prison or who doesn't. So we
can only control our little space, which means our mosques and our schools.
GORANI: When people say Muslim community, you know we use this term very liberally.
LOUATI: Yes.
GORANI: What does it mean to you, the Muslim community, how do you define it?
LOUATI: A person ideally culturally or religious to the Muslim faith. But we are a minority, there are people who practice their religions, some
people just have the Muslim name. But we are just painted unfortunately with this wide brush, "the Muslims."
GORANI: Yes, there was I believe it was yesterday there was a video that was shot here in Place de la Republique.
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GORANI: If I'm not mistaken of a man who had a blindfold on, and he had a little sign on the ground saying, "I'm a Muslim, and I'm called a
terrorist, come hug me." Or something like that. It went viral you know as things go viral online. I want to show our viewers some of that.
There it is by the way, maybe you can see it, Yasser. And people came up to him and they hugged him, you know, saying we're in solidarity with you, as
a Muslim. What did you make of this? What did you think of that?
LOUATI: This is quite sad, that people have to justify themselves for not being assassins. I mean try -- if someone comes to me and says prove to me
you're not a killer, so now right now you are not innocent. First you are guilty unless proven otherwise. And Muslims, unfortunately in France they
have no time to grieve. We didn't have time to cry for the dead, we had no time to express our outrage I'm the son of Paris. I've never seen my city
like this before, never.
[15:50:08]
GORANI: You're born in Paris and you've never seen the capital like this, in what - in what particular way?
LOUATI: The state of fear we live in. And on top of the fear, Muslims are living in right now, they have also to justify themselves for not being
connected.
GORANI: You feel that way as a Muslim man, that you have to -- you're looked at with suspicion, that you have to justify yourself.
LOUATI: Look at how the government is reacting. They have raided our mosques and even destroyed one of them. They have (inaudible) put 100
persons under house arrest for no apparent reason. And unfortunately we might be manufacturing again a new generation of people who say this
country hates me, therefore it's time for payback when I grow up.
GORANI: Yasser Louati, thanks very much, the spokesperson for the Collective Against Islamaphobia. It's great having your perspective on the
program this evening.
LOUATI: Thank you.
GORANI: We're going to take a quick break and we will be right back. Stay with us for our special coverage.
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LINDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (inaudible) was from Mexico, she had studied tourism and had been living in Paris for about
five years. In the city of love, the 27-year-old became engaged, her fiance making the announcement just last month on Facebook. But on Friday night
she was gunned down while working at the restaurant, (inaudible). Again her Fiance took to Facebook saying "I love you, my love. Rest in peace." Her
hometown of Veracruz is now in mourning.
[15:55:12]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the worst thing that can happen to parents is to lose a child and losing a child so abruptly like her, in the prime of her
life.
KINKADE: At just 22 years of age, Martias Damaski was a talented BMX rider. The French engineer and his girlfriend, Marie Laush, who worked in public
relations, were both killed at the Bataclan theater. They were celebrating their fifth anniversary.
Damaski's friend, four time flat land BMX world champion Martis Dentois paid homage on instagram. BMX lost a great one he wrote. Rest in peace,
Mathias, rest in peace Mary.
Djamilo Houd worked in a fashion design house in Paris and was attending a friend's birthday party at the (inaudible) restaurant. She died in her ex-
husband's arms.
28-year-old Valeria Solisen from Venice, Italy, had been living in Paris six years. She was a Phd. student at the Sobon, one of the world's oldest
universities. On Friday night at the Bataclan theater, she was with her boyfriend, his sister, and a friend. As they tried to escape, Valeria was
shot dead. Her parents flew to Paris to bring their daughter's body home.
LUCIANA MILANI, MOTHER: (As translated) Our daughter in her being daughter, person, citizen, scholar, I could go on about a thousand facets she had.
She was a wonderful person. We will miss her so much, and she will be missed let's say even by our country. People like her are important people.
KINKADE: Linda Kinkade, CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it. This has been "The World Right Now" live from Paris. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. We leave you now with some
more images of those lost in the attacks here last Friday and I'll see you soon on CNN soon with more special coverage.
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