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Hala Gorani Tonight
Donald Trump To Skip Republican Debate; EU Slams Greece Over "Deficiencies" In Border Control; Protests In Norway Against Migrant Deportations; Zika Virus Linked To Babies Born With Microcephaly; Airlines Refunding Tickets To Latin America; Controversy Over Virgin Scholarship In South Africa; Donald Trump to Skip Thursday's GOP Debate; New Danish Law Allows Government to Seize Valuables from Refugees; Apple's Stocks Dip. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired January 27, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We're live at CNN London and this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Well, Donald Trump's campaign to become the Republican nominee has been unorthodoxed to say the least. He has kind of rewritten the rules in many
cases.
But his latest high risk maneuver could be his biggest gamble yet. That's because he is skipping the final debate before next week's Iowa caucuses
after a high profile spat with the host broadcaster of Fox News and specifically one of the anchors, Megyn Kelly.
They say Trump is still welcome at the debate, but the show will go on regardless. Sunlen Serfaty has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONENT (voice-over): With five days left to drum up support ahead of the Iowa caucuses and just a day shy of the next GOP
Fox debate.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said bye-bye.
SERFATY: Donald Trump going rogue dumping Fox News.
TRUMP: Probably I won't be doing the debate. I am going to have something else in Iowa. We'll do something where we raise money for the veterans and
the wounded warriors.
SERFATY: Trump claiming unfair treatment from Fox News moderator, Megyn Kelly.
TRUMP: Megyn Kelly is really biased against me. She knows that. I know that. Everybody knows that. Do you really think that she can be fair at a
debate?
SERFATY: Fox News standing by Kelly while Trump walks.
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Trump is not used to not controlling things, but the truth is he doesn't get to control the media.
SERFATY: So how will his power play fair with Iowans just before the first votes are cast? The RNC responding to Trump's move telling CNN, quote,
"Obviously we would love all of the candidates to participate but each campaign ultimately makes their own decision and what is in the best
interest."
But Ted Cruz Trump's main opposition in the GOP race says not so fast.
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Apparently Megyn Kelly is really, really scary. Donald is a fragile sole.
SERFATY: The Texas senator issuing this challenge to the frontrunner.
CRUZ: If he is unwilling to the stand on the debate stage with the other candidates, then I would like to invite Donald right now to engage on a
one-on-one debate with me any time between now and the Iowa caucuses.
SERFATY: Trump putting the final nail in the coffin Tuesday night after Fox News released a tongue-and-cheek statement poking fun at Trump's
threats to back out saying in part, quote, "We learned from a secrete back channel that the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump
unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president."
TRUMP: They can't toy with me like they toy with everybody else. So let them have their debate and let's see how they do with the ratings.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right, Sunlen Serfaty reporting there. How will Trump spat with Fox News play out? For more I'm joined by senior media reporter,
Dylan Byers. He is in Des Moines, Iowa. Is this unprecedented that a presidential candidate refuses to participate in a debate because he or she
is unhappy with one of the moderators?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Well, it's not necessarily unprecedented, but certainly in the history of modern politics going --
yes, deciding to skip out on the debate simply because you don't like the moderator is absolutely unprecedented.
And you know, what it is here is a contest of wills now between Donald Trump and Fox News, and also contest about who really is the bigger ratings
juggernaut, who can command the attention. That's what Donald Trump is talking about when he talks about, you know, we'll see what the ratings
are.
Trump's hope is that by holding his own event and rally, he will be doing a rally in support of wounded warriors that he can sort of create his own not
just side bar, but his own major media event and draw attention away from the debate and other candidates.
It's hard for me to imagine that the majority of Republican voters aren't going to want to see what the rest of the candidates have to say on stage
that night, but we will have to wait and see.
GORANI: But do we know what this rival event in Iowa is going to be? Will it be televised? Will it be on at the same time? Do we have any details?
BYERS: Well, look it's Donald Trump. I mean, his whole campaign has been based off of creating this sort of media moments, these major media events.
There's no way that he is not going to invite every network besides Fox News to carry his rally live.
[15:05:06]So my guess and my suspension is that you will see a lot of networks sort of cutting back and forth into this rally and cutting away
from it.
I don't think that anyone wants to be perceived as sort of being on Donald Trump's side and benefitting him and giving him the media attention that he
craves.
But look, he is the frontrunner of the Republican Party, and I think most networks will be remissed not to give it at least some of the attention.
GORANI: And Fox News briefly reacted with a statement that some reports suggest was crafted by Roger Ailes himself. What did it say?
BYERS: Yes, well, so the statement which was in Sunlen's package really sort of one of the most unexpected statements to come out of a major media
organization like Fox News.
It was very tongue-and-cheek. It was sort of poking fun at Donald Trump for being scared of Megyn Kelly suggesting that, you know, if you can't go
up against Megyn Kelly, how are you going to be able to take on, you know, the Ayatollah and Vladimir Putin.
Look, a lot of people are criticizing that as becoming of a news network. I think, you know, what is happening here again is that contest of wills.
Neither side wants to be put in their place.
It's Fox News belief that Donald Trump doesn't get to call the shots. It's Donald Trump's belief that he does get to call the shoots and that he's a
more powerful and influential media entity than even Fox News is.
So that's why you're seeing this sort of spat. Where we have arrived at now and just over 24 hours to go until tomorrow night's debate is sort of a
point of no return.
We're very confident, not sure but confident, that Donald Trump will indeed not be at the debate. Fox News just announced that they will not have an
empty podium there for him.
So what we're looking at now is our first Republican debate of the 2016 campaign without Donald Trump on stage.
GORANI: All right. Dylan Byers in Iowa, thanks very much for joining us. Now on to this story. By the way we will have more on Donald Trump. We'll
be speaking with one of his supporters a little bit later in the program on his decision not to participate in the Fox Google debate.
Now go to the migrant crisis, more than 850,000 migrants arrived in Greece last year in search of a better life. Now Greece itself is coming under
fire for what the E.U. calls serious deficiencies in border control.
European officials say Greece is failing to protect the Schengen areas external border. They say Greece needs to do better at registering
migrants, collecting finger prints, checking travel documents among other things.
This latest concern comes amid a debate over the future of free movement within Europe's Schengen region. Greece has responded. It says it is
surpassing itself to honor its obligations. What could all this mean for the future of Greece, for the future of Schengen?
CNN's Nic Robertson has been tracking that story and joins me now live. So Greek is saying, are you kidding? We're getting hundreds of thousands of
people. We are on the frontline of this crisis and now we have to hear this from you?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And they've been saying as well we have been asking for help. We've been talking to you
about (inaudible), the body within Europe that's supposed to help on these external borders.
We have not sent them to the European Commissions' tone on is counterproductive, but it's not going to help anyone, but they're even
saying that when you came and inspected us, which is what the European Commission did back in November.
The Greeks are saying things have changed. That's two and a half months, you can't judge us on that point. So this is not in a good place right
now.
GORANI: And are we really seeing a situation where the Schengen border, in other words, the external border of the E.U., and therefore the Schengen
area will move north, I mean, will move away from Greece and Greece will be considered the outside of it.
ROBERTSON: That's exactly what we are looking at. Look, the European Commission is looking at it in very sort of cold and simple and hard logic.
Yes, they would like to see Greece step up and do what it's committed to do.
But they are basically saying, look, if we introduce border controls inside Europe, that's going to damage business, billions and billions of dollars'
worth of business that will damage us.
So if we want to have free borders inside of Europe, we're going to have a hard external border and if Greece cannot be that hard external border,
guess what? We will make it somewhere else.
GORANI: So Schengen remains, but Greece is not the first border into Europe.
ROBERTSON: And so all those migrants that arrive in Greece, they are going to arrive at a harder border somewhere else that will be much tougher to
cross therefore Greece will be left with how many hundreds of thousands of migrants and refugees to house and to take care of.
GORANI: All right, we will continue to see this story unfold. A crisis that so far is only worsening for the region. Thanks very much, Nic
Robertson on that story.
The migrant crisis is being felt clear across Europe even up to the continent northern most region. Demonstrations were held across Norway
today.
People are protesting. The government's move to deport some of these asylum seekers who you may remember some of them cycled across the border
from Russia into Norway. They are protesting against that decision to just send them back to Russia.
[15:10:05]CNN's Phil Black is in Kirkenes, Norway, a town that seen 5,500 asylum seekers cycle across the border. Phil, tell us what is going on
there and will they be heard these asylum seekers by the government? They don't want to be sent back.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. What we say tonight is they have some support here in Kirkenes. We saw crowds of people singing,
giving speeches, and holding flames up high, all in demonstration against the Norwegian government's policy of returning or trying to return some of
the asylum seekers to Russia.
Apparently these protests were replicated across Norway tonight including the capital. What they don't like is the Norwegian government's decision
specifically when it comes to asylum seekers who had permission to live in Russia legally.
That is people on different types of visas whether it be tourist, business, or otherwise. The Norwegian government says they should go back to Russia
because Russia is a safe place.
What these people say and what the migrants on that deportation list say is that it does not take into account the temporary nature of these visa's,
which means sending them back to Russia will ultimately mean sending them back to the country of origin including war-torn Syria.
They say some of them are applying for the asylum in Russia there and being rejected. We met a group of migrants today, three in total, who say that
is the situation they now find themselves in.
They had temporary visas in Russia. They are now on the deportation list. When they heard that, they fled the local government camp to a church here
in the center of town where they're seeking refuge and hope to avoid deportation.
But that church cannot offer them official sanctuary. It is really just the power of the symbolism there if you like. They hope that that will
stop their forced removal while desperately waiting for the government to rethink its policy.
At the moment, that doesn't look like happening. Norway says it's committed to doing this. Those on that deportation list have something of
a stay because the Russian government has asked for a bit more time to think this through to talk through the logistics of those removals, and
those talks are now proceeding -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. So far the decision not reversed and thousands of migrants saying they want to stay put. Our Phil Black is there covering
that story. Thanks very much, Phil.
A lot more to come tonight, new cases of the Zika virus in the United States and also in Europe. We will look at why it is such a threat to
babies especially in South America and also wherever you are in the world.
We'll tell you how it's affecting air travel. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: A mosquito-borne virus is now causing concern among expectant mothers in two dozen countries.
[15:15:05]It is the Zika virus. It has no cure and for pregnant mothers, it's very scary because it's been linked to a rare birth defect that
creates a situation where the baby's head is smaller and deformed.
Governments in several of those countries are telling women just don't get pregnant. CNN's Shasta Darlington in Brazil, considered ground zero of
this pandemic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was so excited, but the birth of her second child left her more alone than she could have
imagined. At three months, Luis Felipe (ph) has a big appetite just like her first baby, but he was born with a small head and brain damage,
microcephaly.
People here react like he's some contagious disease, she says. People look at him when we're on the streets. There was no warning. Doctors only
detected the disorder after Luis Felipe was born.
What gives me strength is the love I feel for him, she says. Luis Felipe will need to be cared for his entire life.
(on camera): So she is doing this three times a week right now, taking her son to physical therapy, and goes back to work in March. It's not clear
how this is going do this and she is the only person in her family who has a job.
Here in the state of Fernamboko (ph), we have seen the heart ache and the financial burden this is putting on families. More than 4,000 cases of
newborn microcephaly have been reported in Brazil since Zika was detected less than a year ago.
A third of them are here where babies and moms face endless jabs and tests. Dr. Angela Hoser one of the first to make the link between Zika and
microcephaly.
These babies have brain damage to different degrees, which mean inserting this generation into society is going to be very complicated, she says.
Research continues to establish a cause and effect with the Zika virus spread by the same mosquitos that transmit yellow fever and dengue.
There's no vaccine, no cure, which means (inaudible) mosquito is public enemy number one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the effort has been put on having prevention and by having the population under control.
DARLINGTON: The 200,000 troops now going door to door and eliminating the stagnant water that's serves as the mosquito's breeding ground and
educating families. The health ministry admits that it's been losing the war against the mosquito and mothers-to-be across Brazil see their moment
of hope turned into a moment of unbelievable anguish. Shasta Darlington, CNN, Brazil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, as the world reacts to the story, not surprisingly it's an effect on travel not just in the region, but people may be thinking twice
about going to areas that are affected.
Joining us now is CNN business correspondent, Samuel Burke. Let's first talk about what airlines are saying about these airlines traveling and
flights going to these parts of the world where the Zika virus is having such a negative impact.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hala, for the first time since these outbreaks, businesses are actually having to change policy as it
regards -- as it relates to customers starting with, I just want to show you what airlines are offering at this point.
It's not just anybody who does not want to go. They're starting out with pregnant women right now. They are offering them a full refund and it's
not every airline.
It's pregnant woman that there offering refunds and a lot of airlines are saying that women will have to show proof that they're pregnant.
They're also allowing women to return earlier than scheduled if they're on a trip right now visiting family on vacation in Latin America and want to
come back then they can do that.
They are also offering refunds to companions and they will have to show that they're traveling with a woman that's pregnant if they want to get a
refund.
Now, it's not every single airline, let's go back to that graphic. We've been checking on many of them throughout the day and I have a feeling by
tomorrow many more will be doing this.
Right now, American Airlines, British Airways, United, Land Airlines, which is based in Chili as well as Tam Airlines, which is a Brazilian airliner
are all offering different options.
Best to call and check in with your airline to see if they have changed their policy yet.
GORANI: And what about the medical experts? Are they saying women should take the airlines up on these refund offers?
BURKE: We just got through talking with one of the medical experts on our CNN team and she says the fact that they're offering this option is key.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I have spoken to health officials, scientists, and doctors who have called what is happening in South and
Central America and the Caribbean a pandemic.
[15:20:05]It probably will spread to the U.S. and we may see small outbreaks of local transmission here, but it's so important that we get the
word out and educate people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURKE: So is it seems like a matter of time. Many of them are saying when it comes to the U.S. Also to keep in mind these, it's not just airlines,
also cruise ships, some of them, Norwegian and Carnivore are offering people refunds.
So back to the airlines, it's not just anywhere in Latin America, I want to show you a map of where these refunds are being offered.
You see there not every country, but mostly the northern part of South America and airports from Mexico City to Cancun to Sao Paulo.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Samuel Burke. Great information there for any expectant mothers wondering what their options are.
Let's go to the frontline in Syria where some fighting forces are angry that they may not be included in political negotiations and the civil was
there.
CNN has exclusive access to the Kurdish stronghold of Hasakah. Our Clarissa Ward is on the ground and hearing about the frustration of the
Kurdish forces who are fighting every day, but frustrated with the political process.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are scenes of utter devastation like this where the Northern Syria where the Syrian
Democratic forces made up largely of and battling against ISIS.
Thousands of them have been killed in the process, but a lot of territory has been taken back and it's precisely because of the blood that's been
spilled and the ground that's been retaken from ISIS.
That the Kurds feel so angry that they do not have a seat at the negotiating table in Geneva. They say these talks as prioritizing and
regional interest over the future of Syria.
They say that only the regime of Bashar al-Assad and the Suni opposition groups that are fighting Assad are really representative of the talks and
that minorities like the Kurds and the Christians have essentially been ignored.
One commander told us that he feels particularly disappointed with the U.S., a key ally of the Kurds in the battle against ISIS for not trying to
support Kurds in this political process.
And he warned that the absence of the Kurds at the negotiating table in Geneva could threaten the entire military effort with the coalition to
defeat ISIS. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Hasakah, Syria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Clarissa Ward there in Syria.
Coming up, scholarships for students who remain virgins come under fire in South Africa. But are they a cause for outrage or an opportunity according
to some? That story is up ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Let's go to South Africa now and a controversial college scholarship for young women. It was started by a mayor in a rural
province, but to qualify, recipients must remain virgins during their education. That has sparked outrage. David McKenzie has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:25:06]DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are some of (inaudible) final days at home. Spending time with her
granny and young sister before she heads to the city for college. An accomplished student she won a government scholarship and one of the main
requirements is that she remain a virgin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're keeping ourselves from boys.
MCKENZIE: To stay with the program she must submit to virginity tests during her college vacation. If she fails the tests, she loses her
funding.
THUBELIHLE, SCHOLARSHIP RECIPIENT: I don't have (inaudible) and I'm 18 years old. I must study hard.
MCKENZIE: She is known as a maiden where the virginity testing is a common practice. Here (inaudible) the tradition rules and some say that the
scholarship is invasive and sexist.
(on camera): You say it's discriminating because it's based on someone being a virgin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just need to support them.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): (Inaudible) thought of the virgin-only scholarships, she was a teen mother herself.
DUDU MAZIBUKO, UTHUKELA DISTRICT MAYOR: We have ways to keep down this teenage pregnancy and now the infection of HIV and AIDS.
MCKENZIE: And nothing is working.
MAZIBUKO: Nothing is working.
MCKENZIE: In this part of South Africa, the odds are stacked against students finishing school especially girls. So called sugar daddies pray
on poor young girls and exchanging money for sex. When girls get pregnant, they drop out.
MAZIBUKO: Young girls are vulnerable. They can't refuse to have sex with older person. They cannot even instruct an old man to wear a condom.
MCKENZIE: South Africa's main opposition party has lodged a complaint against Mazibuko's program with the country's Human Rights Commission.
THUBELIHLE: I tell them don't worry it's my choice.
MCKENZIE: She says that the virgin scholarship is her choice, and only chance to get into college. David McKenzie, CNN, South Africa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Coming up, he is confident, confrontational and is way ahead in the polls so what is it that makes
Donald Trump so popular with some Republicans.
We'll hear from supporters and a former White House political director next.
And also ahead, a CNN exclusive, we hear from children whose family's dreamed of a new life in Australia, but ended up detained sometimes for
years on a remote Pacific island. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:05]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GORANI: Welcome back and a quick look at the top stories this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Donald Trump says he's skipping Thursday's Republican Presidential debate the last face off before next week's Iowa caucus. He is accusing Fox
moderator Megyn Kelly of bias against him. Trump said he'll instead hold a fundraiser for wounded veterans in Iowa at the same time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The E.U. is slamming Greece for what it calls serious deficiencies in border control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: More than 850,000 migrants crossed into Greece in 2015. European officials say security controls and document screening need to be improved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Also among the top stories Brazil's President says Latin America must band together to fight the Zika virus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That call to action as new cases are reported outside of the country as far away as Denmark, Switzerland and the United States, causing
a lot of concern for pregnant women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: In the United States law enforcement officials have arrested eight people including one of the protest leaders after a nearly month long
standoff at a wildlife refugee in Oregon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: One person was killed when gunfire broke out during a traffic stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GORANI: Let's return now to our top story, Donald Trump is skipping the next Fox News Republican debate.
CNN political reporters have been on the campaign trail across the United States. They spoke to 150 Trump supporters, a good section there, they
asked them all a simple question why are you voting or intend to vote for Donald Trump. Here are some of their answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know this country is so dang politically correct. I mean you can say - you can't say - I mean I'm afraid to say what I really
feel you know because it's not politically correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you like his not being politically correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I absolutely like it. I think this country better go back to some of those values.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This liberal attitude of let everybody in is unsafe. Look what happened in France. - If they had - I love the French but if they
had tighter borders, maybe this wouldn't have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 18-year-olds we value action and who is going to - and who's going to come through, and to us that's Trump. I mean he walked out
to we're not going to take it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: You know it's great to hear from the supporters because many people in Europe and abroad say why would anyone vote for Donald Trump, those who
oppose his ideas of course they ask the question, they ask me the question as a journalist and it's good that we are showing them, Trump supporters
and why they say they will vote for Donald Trump.
My next guest is no stranger to Republican administrations. Jeffrey Lord served as political director to Ronald Reagan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: He's also written this book called "What America Needs, The Case for Trump."
He joins me now from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, via Skype.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Jeffrey Lord, thanks for being with us.
So Donald Trump says OK, I don't like Megyn Kelly, I think she's biased, I'm going to skip this debate. And Fox News and others are saying look, if
he can't handle a Fox News anchor, why is he running for President where he's going to have much tougher things to confront.
How can he defend that position?
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: With all - with all due respect to Fox News, Donald Trump does not believe in political correctness, number
one. I mean as you can hear from those supporters, he just is going to stand up here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: He thinks there's bias, he thinks she's out to get him, he doesn't have to stand for it so he's not going to be there, it's that - it's that
simple.
I think a lot of his supporters feel that this kind of reaction is long overdue. You know in the original confrontation between Megyn Kelly and
Donald Trump, most of the attention always goes to the interaction between the two of them. What you should really pay attention to is when he makes
his response, there was thunderous applause in that audience so basically Republicans and conservatives.
GORANI: But the perception Jeffrey though, is look, if he can't hack it, I mean you know if he can't take a tough question on woman's rights, you know
why is he running for the top job in the U.S.?
LORD: I think Trump supporters just don't see it that way. They see the media not being able to handle criticism.
GORANI: Well the media, I mean Fox said you're absolutely welcome to come, you know the invitation is still extended to you Donald Trump he's the one
saying I won't show up.
LORD: I have to say Fox puzzles me here. They put out a statement that is decidedly not you know the kind of statement that you would get from a
journalistic institution, which they are. I mean it was pretty snarky, pretty, you know too cute by half and I think that's what helped trigger
this and I think they probably regret it right about now.
[15:05:02]
GORANI: Yes, but Donald Trump said I'm not going to call Megyn Kelly a bimbo, I'm just going to call her a lightweight reporters because that
would unpc. I mean -
LORD: Nothing politically correct there is there?
GORANI: No there isn't but I mean you know from the outside looking in honestly it just seems a little childish from a man who is trying to get
the top job in the United States, the Presidency doesn't it? I mean it just - this level of discourse, how do you defend it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: Well, I think this level of discourse is a response to decades of this kind of political correctness. I mean people have had it.
You know, as I mention in my book, this is just - this is well beyond the sort of innate things that you're not supposed to say Merry Christmas. One
person interviewed in the Washington Post said she'd been told in the college she worked at, she was in the Administrative office, she couldn't
even use the terms him or her because it might offend somebody who was transgender. We have silly things like that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: But we have more lethal things like Major Nidal Hassan, the U.S. Army major who walked under the fort hood military base in the middle of Texas,
you know stood up yelled ahu akbar, and shot 13 people to death, 12 American soldiers. And then you have the - and the army we later found out
knew that he had all these sympathies but didn't want to do anything because it was politically incorrect.
And then we had the situation in California in San Bernadino where the neighbors knew that these two - this couple was up to something, that they
were building explosives and all of this and they were going to report them but they were afraid to do it because it was politically incorrect.
GORANI: -- but, so you're saying Donald Trump is the one candidate whose sort of saying the things that other politicians and others running for
this top office are not - won't say? That he'll say things like this is Islamist or Islamic terrorism and the others are too afraid to say that?
LORD: I mean even the President won't go there, and that's a big issue in this country.
GORANI: OK, although you do hear it from other candidates certainly. I mean I've certainly heard it.
Jeffrey let me - by the way we did something interesting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN did speak to 150 Trump supporters, we sent a camera out to just a typical London market and we asked you know some of these fruit and veg
sales people what they thought of Donald Trump, just an ocean away, on the other side of the Atlantic, here's what they said, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a cartoon. I mean he's not a real life person. His views are just hair brains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't find him crazy, I quite like him but I don't think anyone else does because of his -- he's a bit crazy with his views.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He thinks of everything that you don't want him to say I don't know how anyone can vote for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean three of the views have been well outspoken than previous dictators in the past and things like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I would be shocked, yes. The Americans are far too intelligent for that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I would actually prefer Kanye West to win the American elections than Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But you know this underlines something. I mean the last lady said I'd rather see Kanye West win. I mean has this just turned into a big
reality sort of show, kind of almost like a joke? I mean it's being seen, it's being perceived that way sometimes by some here in Europe?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: Yes, well I - you know I think to some degree American politics - all politics frankly has a little drama in it. This might have a little more
drama than usual. But as I listen to some of those, I am reminded of the differences that we had in 1776 and why he's not running for Prime
Minister, and why he is running for President.
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LORD: I mean there is a culture difference, and I say that as somebody who is English on both my mother and father's sides. So you know there's a
difference there, no question.
GORANI: All right, well certainly there is. And I'm glad we're going way back in history here to make a point. Jeffrey Lord, thanks very much,
appreciate your time.
LORD: Thanks, any time.
GORANI: Jeffrey Lord has written a book, What American Needs, The Case for Trump, joining us from Harrisburg in Pennsylvania.
And don't forget you can get all the news, interviews and analysis on our Facebook page. Facebook.com/halagoranicnn.
Still ahead, Denmark's migrant controversy.
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GORANI: Last night on the show one Danish MP told me Muslims just are not got at integrating, it's just something they don't know how to do.
It was a conversation that sparked a lot of online commentary. Tonight we bring you a very different view from a former Danish Deputy Prime Minister,
who wants to tell us that this is not the view of most Danes.
We'll be right back.
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[15:41.25]
GORANI: All right, on last night's program, we told you about a new Danish Law. The law allows the government to seize valuables from asylum seekers
to help pay for their care, and it also extends the number of years they have to wait before they can send for relatives.
While the law has caused controversy, it passed by a very wide margin in the Danish parliament. One of those who supported it was Kenneth
Kristensen Berth, a Danish MP, who joined me on the program. Many of you have reacted to that conversation on Facebook and Twitter and online.
Let me remind you of some of what he had to say.
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KENNETH KRISTENSEN BERTH, MP, DANISH PEOPLE'S PARTY: It would be fair to say that in Denmark Muslims have not done a very good job integrating,
whereas people from for instance, Thailand, the Philippines, China and so on has done vastly better. They are not as (inaudible) as people from the
Mid-East and Africa, they are better employed and of course we do not have a problem with Islamism, among these people.
GORANI: But I mean so you're saying that Muslims necessarily create an Islamist problem, is that your position?
BERTH: If you look at Western part of Europe, would it be fair to say that there are problems with Islam and Islamist groups all over Western Europe?
GORANI: I mean I'm asking you if you think that being Muslim necessarily means that it represents some sort of Islamist menace.
BERTH: And I'm asking you not to disregard reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it, of course not everyone in Denmark shares that view. I mean some of the other things that we're not airing here are that
essentially Muslim immigrants are more violence prone, that they don't work, that they're there to take advantage of the system in Denmark.
Now among the hundreds of comments I received on social media today was one from Morten Ostergaard. He's the former Deputy Danish Prime Minister,
former Minister for Economic and Interior Affairs, and he joins me now live from Copenhagen.
Mr. Ostergaard, thanks for being with us. First of all you listened to that interview, what's your reaction to it?
MORTEN OSTERGAARD, FORMER DEPUTY DANISH PRIME MINISTER: Well frankly I'm just appalled. It's mockery for thousands of citizens here in Denmark who
go to work every day and are proving him wrong. We don't regard people from their religious convictions or political convictions. We try to get
everybody to work and I'm going to be frank say that we can do better than we have done historically.
You know we have very low unemployment in general but some of these immigrant groups have higher numbers of unemployment.
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OSTERGAARD: And I think that's really where all the political attention should be and should be focused on. What can we do to better the
integration. But to say as we hear there that there are groups where we can't integrate, well that's being proven wrong everyday by people who go
to work and contribute to our society.
GORANI: Let, Morten Ostergaard, you say this is not representative of the views. But you know let's remind viewers of the facts here.
This law that allows the government to seize valuables over $1500 was passed by a margin - a huge margin, 81-27. And more importantly it is
making it impossible virtually for any asylum seeker to send for a family member, a relative, kids, a spouse, in less than four or five years' time.
You know so therefore it is representative of a certain view in Denmark, is it not?
OSTERGAARD: Well I'm in opposition, in strong opposition to these new policies that are devised to see if you can deter refugees from going to
Denmark in the hope that they will go elsewhere. And I strongly oppose that and I think that it's against all our traditions. But that doesn't
mean that in Denmark in general that we regard people from which religious convictions they have.
[15:45:13]
OSTERGAARD: And I also want to stress that one thing is politics in our parliament, another thing is how the Danes have reacted. 150,000 people
have gathered in a new movement called "The Friendly People" where they've received refugees that come to Denmark and try to make their life easier.
A few people started a collection and ended up with 200 tons of clothing that could be sent to Greek islands. There is a lot of charitable actions
going on in Denmark living up to the best of our traditions.
So I just hope that people will say that one thing is politics, another is the reaction of the Danish people.
GORANI: But you mentioned politics - no I don't think anyone's arguing that all Danes dislike Muslims, or that all Danes are opposed to the idea
of welcoming refugees fleeing persecution. But just to remind our views as well, the Danish People's Party, the party to which the MP whom we
interviewed yesterday belongs, won 37 seats. Now that's 21.1% of the vote last June, 2015, and that was even before the very, very big wave of new
migrant arrivals. So it's possible even that there support has grown.
So you do have about a fifth of the population in your country that potentially agrees with that MP. Is that correct?
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OSTERGAARD: No, the numbers are correct but also people who voted for the "Danes People's Part" have shown up and helped refugees. And I'm just
going to say that I strongly oppose these policies. I think that we should be found where we're seeking international solutions and we should focus
polit8ically on being better at integrating the refugees that we receive in great numbers.
But this doesn't represent the reaction of the Danish people which is totally in line with our traditions. And it's important for me that my
voice is heard as another voice in Denmark besides the majority in Parliament. But also that everybody in the community around us knows that
the Danes in general are doing a tremendous job in receiving refugees.
GORANI: All right, well that message has come out loud and clear. And I have to say that on our Facebook page, on our twitter page, as well as in
comments on line, many, many Danes have contributed to the comment section saying you know this doesn't necessarily represent me, doesn't represent my
opinion. And it's been a very interesting discussion.
Morten Ostergaard, thanks very much for joining us there from Denmark with your reaction to this conversation.
The Danish MP I interviewed last night says Australia's model of dealing with asylum seekers is a good one. But Australia has repeatedly come under
fire for its system, one that sees boat loads of migrants detained on remote pacific islands for months or years at a time.
Among them are children dreaming of a future in Australia but living a very different reality. Ivan Watson has an exclusive report.
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IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Children searched with metal detectors. Just one of the security measures imposed on scores of refugee
and migrant children who are held for months and even years by the Australian government at one of their refugee detention centers on the
Pacific island of Nauru.
How old were you when you first got to the detention center?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was ten.
WATSON: And now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 12.
WATSON: And now you're 12. (Inaudible Ahmed) is a member of Myanmar's increasingly persecuted Muslim minority whose family tried years ago to
reach Australia by boat.
They were intercepted by Australian authorities who brought them to what she calls a prison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are the stands, it's all around the camp.
WATSON: Is Nauru a good place for children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nauru is the worst place that I have ever seen for children.
WATSON: As of last December there were at least 68 children out of a total of 537 detainees being held at this facility on an island with just 21
square kilometers of territory.
The Australian government established this controversial detention center as a response to the tens of thousands of refugees and migrants whom
embarked on smugglers boats in a dangerous effort to reach Australian shores.
Instead of keeping them in Australia the authorities shipped hundreds of migrants and refugees to this camp in Nauru, an isolated economically
underdeveloped pacific island nation.
Australia's Immigration Minister declined CNN's request for an interview but in a statement to CNN a government spokesman said "stopping the boats
has enabled this government to return integrity to Australia's humanitarian and refugee program. And that Australia and its partners comply with all
international obligations and treaties."
[15:50:00]
WATSON: We wanted to go to Nauru to check out the camp ourselves but it's not easy. First the government of Nauru requires a $5800 non-refundable
journalist visa application fee per person and it says it does not want foreign journalists on this small island.
Second, the Australian government forbids journalists for filming or interviewing detainees at its camps. So we've interviewed 7 current and
former camp residents remotely about what it's like for children to live in this detention center.
SARAH HANSON-YOUNG, AUSTRALIAN SENATOR: Yes, I'm one of the few people who has ever really been able to go into the camp and walk around and talk to
families inside. No journalists are allowed in, there is very little information let out of the camp. And staff who work at the center are
essentially gagged.
WATSON: Sarah Hanson-Young is an Australian lawmaker who has lobbied to shut the camp down.
HANSON-YOUNG: There's absolutely no way the Australian government can justify keeping particularly families, women and children, in these camps,
they can't guarantee their safety.
WATSON: Children in the Nauru camp suffer from extreme levels of emotional and psychological distress Australian government reports concluded. They
also documented cases of sexual assault saying the children should be removed.
Australia says it's listening to the recommendations. In recent months Australian and Nauru authorities have taken steps to open the camp up.
Among the lucky few to be resettled in air conditioned containers outside the Nauru camp last month, 12 year old (Mizba Ahmed). She helped start a
Facebook campaign to draw attention to the plight of refugee children stranded in Nauru. Dozens of children still live in the camps moldy tents.
Despite her long incarceration (Mizba) says her family still dreams of one day reaching the country that imprisoned her.
(MIZBA AHMED) We just want to go to Australia to make our future very bright.
WATSON: Ivan Watson, CNN.
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GORANI: Coming up, Apple reports record profits but the tech giant's stocks have taken a dip.
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GORANI: We'll tell you what its flagship product has to do with that fall. We'll be right back.
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GORANI: There's good news and bad news from tech giant, Apple.
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GORANI: The company posted its most profitable quarter in U.S. history. This number is actually eye popping. More than $18 billion, that's a
profit. But sales of Apple's most profitable product, the iPhone actually slowed.
CNN's monies Paul La Monica, joins me now live from New York with more.
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GORANI: So, presumably that's why the share price is down even though $18 billion in profit is extremely impressive.
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN DIGITAL MONIES CORRESPONDENT: It is obviously extremely impressive Hala, but as Wall Street usually does they look
forward instead of backward and Apple is saying that revenue for the current quarter is likely to fall from a year ago and that hasn't happened
in 13 years.
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LA MONICA: There are legitimate worries that demand for the current iterations of the iPhone is slowing and there's no hope on the horizon just
yet because the iPhone 7 probably won't come out until this fall.
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[15:55:00]
GORANI: And so what about looking forward, because you're saying markets look forward and that makes sense. Because if iPhone sales slow and we
don't really - I mean there's nothing really in the pipeline in terms of innovation, in terms of a game changer product, where is Apple going to -
how is it going to infuse investors with confidence here?
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LA MONICA: That's yes - that is a great question. I mean I would say there's nothing in the pipeline that we know about. Apple is presumably
working on a lot of different things but they're very close to the vest about what they are. So will Apple at some point have a snazzy virtual
reality product similar to the Oculus that Facebook now owns?
Will they finally come out or give more details about the rumored self- driving electric car that they may be working on? Some people have said that Apple should just go out and buy Tesla to rejuvenate its growth
because here's another eye popping number for you Hala.
Apple now has nearly $216 billion in cash. Most of it's oversees for tax purposes -
GORANI: That's unbelievable.
LA MONICA: -- but you can do a lot with that amount of money.
GORANI: That is absolutely unbelievable. Is that the most the company has ever held in cash reserves?
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LA MONICA: That is, I'm pretty sure a record -
GORANI: it has to be -
LA MONICA: -- and it climbs every quarter. They had 206 billion three months ago.
GORANI: Yes, I don't know they could just buy several countries with that.
Quickly on the Dow because once again we're seeing a very negative session.
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GORANI: We're down 232. We were briefly up there during midday hours. What's going on?
LA MONICA: I think the Federal Reserve's statement this afternoon is probably what's going to get the most blame. The Fed didn't raise rates
which was expected, and they said they're going to monitor a financial and international developments but I think some traders were hoping the Fed
would more strongly suggest that they're not going to raise interest rates again anytime soon. They didn't do that, Apple is playing a role in the
Dow's drop and Boeing also. Those two stocks really down because of disappointing outlooks and they're both in the Dow.
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GORANI: OK, Paul La Monica, thanks very much joining us from New York, and for our views you'll have a lot more on the markets and on Apple at the top
of the hour on Quest Means Business. I'm Hala Gorani, I'll see you again tomorrow, same place, same time, on CNN.
END
