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Hala Gorani Tonight
Egypt Air Flight 181 Forced To Land In Cyprus; Hijacker's Motives Were Not Related To Terror; Taliban Group Attack Christians, Kills Muslims; Trump Campaign Manager Charged With Simple Battery; Major Brazilian Party Leaving Rousseff's Coalition; French National Football Team Returns To Stade De France; Belgium's Radicalization Problem. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired March 29, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:00:23] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We have live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us this
hour. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Well, it was a routine domestic flight from Alexandria to Cairo, except, it turned into a nightmare when an Egyptian man claiming to be wearing an
explosive vests hijacked the plane in midair. Ian Lee reports from Cairo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For more than five hours, all eyes were on this plane on the tarmac in Larnaca Airport in Cyprus.
EgyptAir Flight MS 181 was forced to land here early Tuesday morning after taking off from Burj El Arab Airport in Alexandria.
It had been bound for Cairo until it was hijacked midflight. One passenger recounted the horror on that flight.
UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: One of the cabin crew told them that we are hijacked. We are being hijacked. So yes, and that was it. And then there was a lot
of panic on the plane and, yes, they didn't tell us anything more. They didn't say what they want or where we were heading, nothing, we were just
kidnapped, that's it.
LEE: A man now identified as 58-year-old Seif El Din Mustafa, seen here being checked by security at Alexandria later demanding the plane divert to
Istanbul.
UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: We got a call into our operations room from the captain that he has information about one person who's claiming to have an
explosive vest and asked to divert the airplane to Istanbul or anywhere else in Europe. The captain informed him that there is not enough fuel to
land in Istanbul so they diverted to Larnaca Airport.
LEE: Most of the 69 people on-board were allowed off the plane shortly after it landed in Cyprus, but seven passengers and crew were held hostage
for several hours as negotiators worked for a peaceful resolution.
They soon established this was not a terror attack. But Seif El Din Mustafa's motives remained unclear. Initial reports indicated he wanted to
be reunited with his ex-wife, prompting this response from the Cypriot president.
NICOS ANASTASIADES, CYPRIOT PRESIDENT: Always there is a woman.
LEE: But the Egyptian prime minister said, he kept changing his demands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At some moments, he asked to meet with a representative of the European Union and at other points, he asked
to go to another airport, but there was nothing specific.
LEE: Then at 2:30 local time, this, more people emerged from the plane. Some run. This man casually walked down the aircraft stairs, even taking
time to fumble around with his bag. Then another climbs out of the Egypt air cockpit window to make his escape.
They are met by Special Forces and checked for explosives. Finally, the hijacker himself surrenders to police. He's searched on the ground, the
bomb that's found is a fake.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEE: Seif El Din Mustafa remains in the custody of Cypriot authorities. His passengers all safely returned to Egypt after what was a terrifying
ordeal in a time of heightened alert. Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.
GORANI: Well, CNN aviation correspondent, Richard Quest joins me now from New York with more. Richard, I want to bring up the CCTV footage there
from the airport of the suspect being patted down.
[15:05:05]We clearly see him getting checked in some way. What do you make of that footage and what that tells us about how much he was checked before
boarding?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It tells me that everything was done absolutely according to plan. There you have him through the
magnometer, quick check. The problem, Hala, is that in the heat of the moment when the alarm goes off, that somebody may have a bomb on board or
somebody's claiming to have a bomb on board.
You haven't got that video ready. You can't be sure that there wasn't a breach of security, and so you have to take it with the utmost gravity and
grave situation, and you have to land the plane as if there was a bomb.
I'll give you another example, after the Paris attacks, Hala, we went through a series where a number of planes, several Air France aircraft, all
being, were the subject of bomb threats.
Now these were flights leaving from U.S. airports where the chances of them having a bomb on board were exceptionally low, but even so, in this
environment, you have to treat it seriously, land the plane, and follow the protocols.
GORANI: But when -- we've all been patted down. I mean, after the Paris attacks, I got one of the most thorough pat downs of my life at the Euro
Star terminal. Presumably you go around the waist, I mean, I've take a domestic flight in Egypt.
You get a pat down when you're a female, female does it around the waist, the shoulders, everywhere else, if he was indeed wearing even a fake
suicide vest, would that not have been caught?
QUEST: Not necessarily. I mean, if it was a fake vest. It could have been a photographer's vest. We don't know what he was wearing. We haven't
seen the pictures. What is clear though is he didn't have explosives.
This, Hala, is not a security breach. This story is not one about how somebody managed to get something on to a plane. It is about frankly how
the system worked.
Whenever a deranged or mentally unstable person chooses to claim they've got a bomb on board, inevitably, they will take it -- the authorities will
land the plane and take it seriously.
What stops more of us from doing it, of course, is the consequences. You spend the rest of your life in prison.
GORANI: Of course, and you certainly sounded not very stable. Can I just ask you about the crew and the pilot here by all accounts from what I'm
hearing, they were exemplary. They kept everyone calm. They diverted the plane, but told -- informed everybody of what was going on on-board. What
did you make of how the Egypt Air crew reacted to all of this?
QUEST: Absolutely, you've nailed it, exemplary. I'm guessing that was one of the crew coming out of the cockpit window. It's only one of the
cockpit. It's one of the flight crew that would know how to operate the cockpit window that does open on a slide and jump out the window.
But Hala, this is not a failure at the moment, it's not a failure of security. It's not a failure of Egypt Air. It's not a failure of the
crew. It seems in this particular case, everything from the Egyptians to the airlines to the people did everything by the book.
GORANI: All right, Richard Quest, we'll see you at the top of the hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," thanks very much.
Even as Pakistan suffers under a series of horrific terror attacks, the bombing of a busy park in Lahore this Easter Sunday was one of shocking
carnage.
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GORANI: One can only imagine the despair there of the victim's families after unimaginable loss. Relatives have begun burying some of the 72
people whose lives were stolen from them. Many very young children. Here's a father's account after the event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was a growing student and this isn't just one family's loss. It's a loss to our people, our entire
nation. My son was hurt here. My nephew was also hurt right there. It's just that the bleeding wouldn't stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Hundreds were wounded. A Taliban splinter group claims they were targeting Christians in the attack, but authorities tell CNN, most of the
victims were in fact Muslim.
CNN's Saima Mohsin has been on the scene and found that many Pakistanis are taking it as an attack on all of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The simple fact is families from all over the city come to this park and that is what people really want to point out
that they are targeting Pakistanis and terrorism has no religion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, over 5,000 suspects rounded up, most were let go, but police are still questioning more than 200 suspects right now in connection with
this Easter Sunday attack.
Let's speak to Husain Haqqani, a former Pakistani ambassador to the United States. He's live in Washington. Ambassador, thanks for being with us.
[15:10:03]So first of all, this attack happened in Lahore. This is the hometown of the prime minister. Not in the lawless, tribal regions by the
Afghan border, this is really at the heart of the Pakistani government. What do you make of this change of tactic by this splinter group?
HUSAIN HAQQANI, FORMER PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, there have been attacks in other Pakistani cities including Karachi and Lahore in the
past. Terrorists are sending a message. They are saying you haven't really tackled us right and we can actually bring the war to the heart of
your country.
Remember, 72 percent of Pakistan's military comes from the province of Lahore's capital, the prime minister, the speaker of parliament, almost all
important personalities in Pakistan right now come from the area.
So in a way, the terrorists are throwing down the gauntlet and saying you haven't really tackled us and we will continue to attack you. We are not
going anywhere.
GORANI: Ambassador, just to remind our viewers, we're talking about the Pakistani Taliban, this is an offshoot of the Pakistani Taliban called
(inaudible), they are claiming responsibility.
The TTP to remind our viewers, the TTP is the group that claimed responsibility for trying to kill Malala Yousefzai, also responsible for
that absolutely horrific school massacre in 2014.
One of the things you say, Ambassador, is Pakistan has to start getting serious now and targeting all of these groups equally. What do you mean by
that?
HAQQANI: Hala, we've been there before. We've seen such incidents every time there's an incident, Pakistani Israeli, we see images of people saying
on television, oh, this is an attack on all Pakistanis.
But let us be real, the Pakistani state has said that many, many times, the general said after 9/11 he's got no sympathy for any terrorist group. It's
been 16 years.
Pakistan created many terrorist groups primarily for its strategic purposes in Afghanistan and India. That has backfired and it is time for Pakistan
to recognize that --
GORANI: Will it seriously -- will it seriously go after the Pakistani Taliban this time around?
HAQQANI: Unfortunately, I think that the mistake comes from going after only the Pakistani Taliban and what happens is that one jihadi group
protects another. So they will continue to be splinter groups that we will see and listen until all extremist jihadi groups are considered the enemy.
And Pakistan makes the decision that we are going after all of them and we will pay the price initially, but eventually our country will be a better
country, moreover, Pakistan needs to change its national discourse from making religion the center piece of all its politics.
That is not going to help with the recruitment of these terrorists who continue to be raised from areas in which religion is the same as politics.
GORANI: All right, Husain Haqqani, a former Pakistani ambassador to the United States, we really appreciate your time with us this evening. Thanks
very much.
HAQQANI: Pleasure.
GORANI: Well, turning now to the race for the White House. It is not the headline that Donald Trump wants just hours before tonight's Republican
town hall right here on CNN. His campaign manager is arrested, facing criminal charges in Florida.
Corey Lewandowski turned himself in today charged with misdemeanor battery. He is accused of grabbing and bruising the arm of a reporter at a Trump
event earlier this month. The Trump campaign says Lewandowski is, quote, "absolutely innocent."
Let's go now live to Janesville, Wisconsin, where Trump will attend a campaign rally in a couple of hours. Senior White House correspondent, Jim
Acosta is there. Tell us more about the Trump camp's reaction to this arrest, Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hala, at this point, the Trump campaign is standing by its embattled campaign manager, Corey
Lewandowski, from Donald Trump on down. Donald Trump even put out a series of tweets, starting with this one earlier this afternoon and we'll put this
one up on screen.
"While Corey Lewandowski, my campaign manager and a very decent man was just charged with assaulting a reporter. Look at tapes, nothing there."
Now, even though Donald Trump says look at the tapes, there's nothing there, if you look at this new surveillance footage that was issued by the
Jupiter Police Department in Florida, which, by the way, comes from security cameras inside a Trump's golf resort where this incident allegedly
took place.
You clearly see Corey Lewandowski, the campaign manager for Donald Trump, grabbing Michelle Fields, who is a reporter for the conservative news
outlet, "Breitbart," initially Michelle Fields was not pressing charges.
And then this got into the media, there were accusations flying back and forth. At one point, Corey Lewandowski tweeted that Michelle Fields was
being delusional that he never touched her.
Now the Trump campaign and Lewandowski's attorney are both issuing identical statements saying that he's innocent of these charges. He's
looking forward to his day in court. And also emphasizing that he was not arrested.
[15:15:11]Although if you talk about the Jupiter Police Department, they will say, well, because he came in and submitted himself to the charges and
picked up this notice to appear in court that he was essentially arrested.
Now Hala, this goes into the file of things you would never think would happen during the course of an American political campaign, but this has
been a very unusual year.
And we could tell you, at this point, Donald Trump is planning on appearing at this rally later on this afternoon. This is happening in the district
of House Speaker Paul Ryan so there is a lot of, you know, really a lot of coverage surrounding this rally that's supposed to take place later today.
And then later on tonight, CNN is hosting a town hall featuring Donald Trump. He's going to have multiple opportunities throughout the course of
the day to talk about all of this, but every indication so far, he is standing by his campaign manager.
There is no indication whatsoever that Corey Lewandowski is going anywhere, despite what you're hearing from Ted Cruz, John Kasich, the other non-Trump
campaign rivals in this race who are saying that this is indicative of Donald Trump's campaign. And that Corey Lewandowski essentially should be
fired -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, well, he's not getting fired, and we'll see tonight how Donald Trump responds to all of this in our town hall. Jim Acosta, thanks
very much for joining us from Wisconsin.
In a few hours, you can hear the Republican candidates answer questions directly from voters as we've been mentioning, CNN is hosting a town hall
in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, watch it here live at 1:00 in the morning, London Time.
Still to come this evening, evacuations are announced at an American base in Southern Turkey. One that is central to the fight against ISIS and the
aerial campaign over Syria and Iraq. Details are up next. Stay with us.
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GORANI: And in breaking news, is this potentially the beginning of the end for Dilma Rousseff? I'm asking this because Brazil's largest political
party is saying that it is leaving the coalition of President Rousseff.
The move increasing the likelihood that Ms. Rousseff will be impeached. He's been embroiled in a number of controversies including her attempt to
appoint former president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, who has been charged in connection to a corruption investigation to a position earlier this
month that would have shielded him from any investigation.
Let's get the latest with Paula Newton. She's in Rio de Janeiro. Let's talk a little bit about what this means for President Rousseff. Does this
mean she's on her way out?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was always going to be a tipping point here, Hala, and we most likely have arrived at that the point. As
you were just saying, the largest portfolio party in Brazil is now pulled out of her coalition. And she will not have the votes to likely avoid that
impeachment process.
[15:20:02]And when that all starts, and those votes start in the national congress, it will then put her government on pause for at least 180 days
while she tries to fight that impeachment.
And what happens in the meantime, Hala, is that a caretaker government is imposed. It will likely go to the vice president, and that is a man that
heads that big political party that we were just talking about.
It's with great vitriol, Hala, that they just announced that they were pulling out of that coalition, but these are frightening times here in
Brazil.
A lot of people are uncertain about whether or not a government that would replace the Rouseff government would be any better than the one they have
today and that is because a huge kickback and corruption scandal is embroiling so many politicians in this country.
And people feel as if they cannot trust anybody to lead the country through what are incredibly adverse times. You are talking about one of the worst
recessions in a generation that could still get much worse.
The Olympics here in just a few months, and of course, the Zika virus, which continues to stalk this country. I mean, Hala, such a mouthful and
right now still very uncertain times in terms of what will transpire with the Rouseff government in the next few weeks.
GORANI: So how will this impact all these things that you're talking about? That the world has been talking about in connection with Brazil,
handling the Zika virus, the all-important Olympic Games coming to Brazil in just a matter of months? I mean this is a government in complete chaos
here.
NEWTON: Absolutely in complete chaos. If you listen to those opponents of Dilma Rousseff, they will say look, we'll put in a caretaker government.
This country is strong. Our democracy is strong. Our institutions are strong.
We'll be able to get through all of this and then we will be able to do what they call a cleansing of their political system. The problem is,
Hala, that if you talk to anybody in the street, you don't need to be a political expert to know this.
Things are just at that tipping point, as I say, and they are not sure that anybody can keep any of those promises when it comes to trying to even
revive an economy after the Olympics.
No one is really showing a heck of a lot of confidence in this economy right now. Foreign investment is way down. Employment is up to nearly 10
percent, and there seems to be precious little answers, even from the opposition party.
At this the point, it looks like a large power grab. Dilma Rousseff calls it a soft coup and yet the opposition parties are saying, look, something
has to change.
GORANI: All right, Paula Newton on that story. Thanks very much live in Rio.
Now to the latest on Europe's fight against terrorists networks. The FBI is analyzing phones and computers that that were seized after the Brussels
attacks.
Belgian officials asked for the FBI's help on this after they failed to access some data on the devices. Those phones and computers have actually
been shipped to the United States in the hopes the FBI can extract key information.
Now a reminder of the death toll, it's been revised slightly lower at one point it was announced that 35 people had been killed. Authorities are
telling us 32 people, more than 300 injured in the attacks in Brussels last week. You're seeing aftermath by the way of the airport explosions.
Now tributes are being paid to the victims of those attacks. Where Belgium's national team is facing Portugal in a friendly match. Take a
look.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This is a moment of silence. Players, officials, fans, all stood still for a moment before it kicked off. Tonight's match was supposed to
take place in Brussels last week, but understandably was postponed after the attacks.
In France, they are also taking time to reflect the country's national football team, it's playing the Stade de France for the first time since
November's terror attacks.
CNN's Erin McLaughlin is there live with more. So Erin, of course, on November 13th, couple suicide bombers tried to get in, blow themselves up,
kill as many people as possible there. The president of France was present, what's it like this evening?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, authorities really are taking no chances tonight, very heavy security presence here at that
stadium. Over 1,000 security personnel in and around this area. Some 400 police officers as well as snipers positioned on some of the surrounding
buildings.
There's multiple layers of checks as well. They're searching each and every vehicle that goes inside the stadium to park, to enter the stadium.
Fans are being searched, I don't know if you can see just behind me there's security personnel in orange jackets.
They search the fans before they can even get near the stadium and then the fans are searched again before they enter. All of this to keep the some
65,000 people expected here tonight safe.
[15:25:05]Many of those people I spoke to before the game telling me they are looking forward to this game, despite the threat of terrorism they say
that it's important that life goes on as normal. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's truly mathematical. I mean, there is so much security here. Who would attack such place, you know, it makes no sense.
It didn't work the first time, and we were not waiting for it. So, it's going to be all right.
And even though not stop doing what I think to do in my day-to-day life or that kind of events you know, I'm still not afraid. I know it's been
troubling for all of the people, but you know, let's keep on going.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just we are continuing to live, you know, we are not afraid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLAUGHLIN: Now tonight is a friendly match between France and Russia. Currently France is winning. It's a match that's meant to help the teams
prepare for Euro 2016, which is also going to be hosted in this country. So perhaps tonight is a practice event for the teams, but it's a practice
event for French authorities as well.
GORANI: All right, certainly it's going to be a security challenge for authorities there. Thanks very much, Erin McLaughlin in rainy Paris this
evening at the Stade de France.
The Pentagon now where the U.S. military has ordered family members of service personnel to evacuate Southern Turkey. The decision affects
families at the air base as well as two other locations. It's vital to the U.S. air campaign against ISIS.
Let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr. So Barbara, what does this mean exactly? Are they ordered, is this compulsory?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: This is a mandatory withdrawal, Hala. It's going to affect about 640, 650 possibly military dependents,
wives, children, relatives who have accompanied their service member to Turkey.
It'll be the largest base to be impacted by this. They will have to go. It will happen over the next several days. It is a big disruption to
military families, obviously, they have children in school, but that school on board the air base has also been closed for months now as security
warning levels went up and up.
There is a good deal of constant concern about a potential ISIS, another ISIS attack in Turkey. And the pentagon felt this was out of an abundance
of caution -- Hala.
GORANI: So will this affect the aerial campaign at all? I mean, this is just for family members, right?
STARR: Yes, that's right. This is just for family members. The air operations out of the base and other nearby places will continue. The U.S.
flight attack aircraft out of there to strike targets in both Syria and Iraq also flying jets and drones out of there. That's probably even a
bigger operation, over the area to keep a watch for potential ISIS targets to strike.
GORANI: OK. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks very much. A lot more to come this evening.
Republican presidential frontrunner, Donald Trump, has been accused of encouraging physical altercations at his rallies. Now his campaign manager
is facing a criminal charge for allegedly roughing up a reporter. The latest, next.
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[15:30:54]
GORANI: Police in Pakistan have detained more than 5,000 people since Sunday's park bombing according to officials there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Around 200 are still held for questioning. A splinter group of the Pakistani Taliban is claiming responsibility for the blast which killed 72
people in Lehore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Among the other stories we're following and in breaking news this hour, it looks like more trouble for Dilma Rousseff because Brazil's
largest political party says it is leaving the coalition of President Rousseff and that increases the likelihood that she will be impeached.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: She's been embroiled in a number of recent controversies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The hijacking of Egypt Air Flight 181 has ended peacefully in Cyprus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: An Egyptian government spokesperson says the hijacker who claimed to have an explosives belt is now in police custody. It turned out in the
end, the belt was a fake, all of the passengers and crew are shaken, but unharmed. Arwa Damon joins me now live from Larnaca, Cyprus with more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Do we know where this hijacker is right now, Arwa?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well we do believe that he is still in custody with the officials here. There has not been any
request just yet for his extradition Egypt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: His name is Seif Eldin Mustafa, he was born in 1957, and as you were mentioning there he boarded this flight that was meant to be traveling from
Alexandria to Cairo where he then seemingly informed staff on-board the plane that he was wearing an explosives belt, spending much of his time at
the back of the plane and a lot of the passengers not getting a clear glimpse of him or a clear idea of what was happening until, according to
one woman, she looked out the window and realized that they were flying over water. That they were clearly not on their regular route at which
point, shortly afterwards, some of the crew began coming through asking passengers for their passports and then word began to slowly spread that
they had in fact been hijacked.
One can only imagine how terrified people were at that point in time especially given these various different heightened terror threats that do
exist and are very real. The plane then was diverted here to Larnaca. Where according to at least one of the passengers, about 45 minutes after they
landed the hijacker initially said that women and children could leave. 20 minutes later, he said that all Egyptian nationals could leave. He then
stayed on board along with the crew, the pilot, co-pilot, fairly dramatic video emerging at one stage showing a man jumping out, lowering himself to
the ground from the cockpit -- cockpit window.
Now all of this possibly because this hijacker's ex-wife is from here and initially there were all sorts of reports that he was trying to reconcile
with her, get in touch with her. She was actually brought by the authorities, put in contact with him. He then also at some stage made a
number of other different demands.
He is being described by Egyptian authorities as being someone who is mentally unstable and the suicide belt that he was wearing was a fake and
it seems as if it was put together, using things that would create the appearance of actually being a suicide vest whereas it wasn't. Thankfully,
of course, everything did end up fairly peacefully as a result of this. No one was harmed, but everyone was very, very afraid.
GORANI: Well, understandably so. Arwa Damon, in Larnaca, thanks very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's return to the new legal troubles facing Donald Trump's campaign manager. The Republican Presidential front runner is defending
Corey Lewandowski after he was charged with battery calling him a very decent man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This is a picture of him. Lewandowski is accused of grabbing and bruising the arm of a reporter earlier this month at an event as she tried
to speak with Trump at a rally in Florida. Trump rival Ted Cruz wasted no time weighing in.
TED CRUZ, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a very sad development, and this is the consequence of the culture of the Trump
campaign, the abusive culture.
[15:35:07]
CRUZ: When you have a campaign that is built on personal insults, on attacks, and now physical violence, that has no place in a political
campaign and it has no place in our democracy. And I think it is a really unfortunate development, but I do think it helps clarify for the voters
what the Trump campaign is all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And that was Ted Cruz. The main rival of Donald Trump for the Republican nomination. I'm joined now by CNN political analyst John Avlon,
he's also Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Beast. John, thanks for being with us. Every day brings a new dramatic twist to this presidential campaign. It
is absolutely unbelievable.
So now we have the campaign manager for Donald Trump charged with misdemeanor battery. What impact is this going to have on the race right
now?
JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean look, first of all it comes at a time when Donald Trump is seeing softness in the polls and a
very important primary coming up in Wisconsin in which the state's governor, Scott Walker who himself ran for President and dropped out
endorsed Ted Cruz this morning. So it's hard to see how this can help. However, one of the things about the Teflon Trump campaign is that he seems
to bounce back when he is under assault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: His supporters, his hard core supporters, there really seems to be no insult, no incident that can dissuade them that Donald is not the right
guy. Even when the videotape says otherwise. And of course what's striking about this incident is that Trump and his campaign manager hotly denied it
ever occurred. You know, saying that the reporter in question, Michelle Fields, had made it up and trying to publicly shame her in quasi-collusion
with her own outlet, the conservative new site, Breitbart, and a number of folks rushed to her defense. She seems to be vindicated by the video tape
at this point. They are claiming their innocence, of course, but this is just another hot mess in the Donald Trump campaign, the sign of the times
here in 2016.
GORANI: Right, and when you look at the latest poll and just tell our viewers, these were conducted before this arrest or the charges being
brought against the campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. Trump most enthusiastic about Trump, 40% of Republican voters say they're most
enthusiastic, 28% Cruz. Most likely to win the party's nomination, Trump at 47%, and Cruz at 31%.
So as you mention, John, it appears as though this too will just be added to the list of things that should technically torpedo a campaign. But in
fact will not dissuade Trump supporters from enthusiastically embracing their candidate, it seems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: It certainly seems that way. And that would be sort of the way things have gone this cycle in general. Look, you know Trump has a strong
plurality of the Republican Party that is in his camp. And you can't reason people out of something they weren't reasoned into. The emotional
attachment to Donald is complete.
Now Ted Cruz is trying to run a flanking action and catch up on the delegate count so is Ohio Governor John Kasich. But they really are playing
catch up to the extent where a lot of the gamesmanship inside the Republican Party right now seems to be about denying him those crucial 1237
delegates and going to their convention in Cleveland for a contested convention.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: But this is all -- I mean, we are so deep in layers of sleaze that satire wouldn't do it justice at this point. I mean it's just a surreal,
surreal campaign.
GORANI: But this - sorry to jump in but this is of course the nomination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And fundamentally when you look at it, what's important is November right. It's who is going end to up being the Republican nominee and what
their chances are against the most likely Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton. Very unlikely that it'll be Bernie Sanders. But in both cases, in
match-ups whether it's Cruz or Trump, the Democratic nominee comes can out on top and polls even though we're several months away. So is the
Republican Party basically here preparing itself for this announced defeat in November?
AVLON: Well, I don't think anyone's thinking of it as pre-ordain, but certainly the argument against Trump is that this is a loser of a general
election nominee. The same thing could be said for Ted Cruz for slightly different reasons. He's known as sort of an ideologically rigid senator
from Texas whose main accomplishment is shutting down the government.
But they're both symptoms of a Republican Party that is deeply off center that has won out its base that doesn't have the center right that would
save the party from electing candidates who only appeal to conservative populous or only appeal to conservative ideologues. And that is just a
dangerous situation for a party that's interested in fielding a competitive general election candidate. The dynamic is totally reversed. Right now the
best candidate in the General election who out of the remaining three seem to be John Kasich, is the one who has the most trouble gaining any kind of
traction to win the nomination so it's a total inversion of the way politics is supposed to work.
]15:40:05]
GORANI: It's just fascinating observing the Republican Party this cycle, thanks very much, always appreciate having you on, John Avlon, Editor-in-
Chief of the Daily Beast.
AVLON: Always a pleasure.
GORANI: Thank you very much.
AVLON: Take care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well the terror attacks in Belgium have shown a spotlight on the country's radicalization problem. This affected young men recruited by
extremists. Among them Hicham Chaib he's appeared in countless ISIS videos shown committing some horrific crimes. His family is now speaking out and
CNN's Michael Holmes sat down exclusively with the Chaib's brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In an organization that rebels in barbarity, the hands of this man are more soaked in blood, more
than most. Hicham Chaib Belgium born of Moroccan descent praises the Brussels terror attacks and promises more to come.
Chaib is a murder of many, by the heading, crucifixion, and gunshot, he ends this video warning to his country of birth by killing another man.
MOHAMED AMIN CHAIB, BROTHER OF BELGIUM ISIS FIGHTER: (As translated) He was someone who couldn't hurt a fly and went through life laughing. Just
disbelief and still the family doesn't believe this could happen.
HOLMES: The brother of a killer. Mohamed Amin Chaib is sickened by what he cannot yet bring himself to watch. The actions of a man he no longer
recognizes.
What good memories do you have of him when he was younger before all this took hold? What are your memories of him as a young man? As a child?
CHAIB: (As translated) What I remember is an older brother who was always there. That's what I remember. If I had trouble and he was there.
HOLMES: Hicham Chaib grew up in this suburb of Antwerp in Belgium by all accounts, a normal upbringing in a moderate Muslim family of 13. Until his
family says he met people radicals, who turned him to a view of his religion unlike that he was raised in. What his brother calls, a twisted
cut and paste Islam.
CHAIB: (As translated) That's an Islam that they fill in according to their own interpretations, colored by their own frustrations.
HOLMES: 22 year old Mohamad Amin has not seen his brother since 2013 when he left Belgium for Syria. Since Hicham Chaib's latest grotesque video, the
family who disowns his actions has received threats to their own safety.
CHAIB: (As translated) With the latest video, we've had threats, hate messages. It's a major influence in our family, not just emotionally, but
also out of fear. Our parents are fearful that something might happen with their sons or daughters.
HOLMES: The family's angst does not end with Hicham though, another brother Anwar, faces charges after authorities say he too allegedly tried to go to
Syria. Although his lawyer says Anwar is no Hicham.
MATHIAS LEYS, CHAIB FAMILY LAWYER: (As translated) My client has taken notice of the video images in which his brother is seen and he wants to
absolutely distance himself from it. He rejects the acts and the words of his brother and is shocked by what recently happened in our country.
HOLMES: Mohamed isn't sure if he'll see his brother again but if his brother sees this, he has a message from a family paying for the sins of a
son.
CHAIB: (As translated) Hischam think hard because you have a family here. Your own mother thinks about you every night and cries always about you.
Your father's old. He also always loves you. Think about the consequences for your family because they're enormous.
HOLMES: By his past action, Mohamad Amin's plea unlikely to be heeded.
Michael Holmes, CNN, Antwerp, Belgium.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And don't forget, you can get all of the latest news, interviews, and analysis from the show on my Facebook page, Facebook.com/halagoranicnn.
This is "The World Right Now" just ahead, a look at the role of Taliban in Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I speak to a Pakistani journalist who survived an attempt on his life by Taliban gunmen two years ago. What does he make of the Easter
attack? His story, next.
And later, the U.S. government drops its case against Apple, but it's clear the larger debate over data privacy won't be going away any time soon. That
is also coming up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:46:30]
GORANI: A breakaway faction of the Pakistani Taliban, Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, is claiming responsibility for Sunday's attack in Lehore that killed so many
children and in fact they said was designed to kill Christians.
The broader Pakistani Taliban is behind a long list of deadly assaults on civilians and military forces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Last year, suicide bombers targeted a Christian community in Lehore killing 14. In 2014, gunmen opened fire at an army-run school in Peshawar,
145 people were killed, most of them children. And a suicide bombing at a protestant church also in Peshawar, killed more than 80 people in 2013.
Raza Rumi is a Pakistani journalist from Lehore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: He left Pakistan for the United States two years ago after he himself survived an assassination attempt by the Taliban. He currently
teaches at Ithaca College and joins me now via Skype. Thank you Raza Rumi for being with us.
As someone who escaped, who basically narrowly escaped with his life after an attack from the Taliban, and this is your city Lehore and you see yet
again these horrific attacks against minorities and ordinary Pakistanis by the Pakistani Taliban, what goes through your mind?
RAZA RUMI, PAKISTANI JOURNALIST: Well, obviously it's extremely painful and it makes me relive all those bombers and the fact that we had all of these
militias and violent groups that continue to operate that you know, in spite of all of the action that the military and the government has taken.
GORANI: -- but yes -
RUMI: So it is quite worrying.
GORANI: You say despite all the action that the military and the government have taken, then you have those who say, intelligence services, authorities
can't have it both ways, they can't allow some groups to flourish because it serves their interests in neighboring Afghanistan, and then others not
too. Eventually it will come back to hit them in the same way this splinter group has. Do you agree with some of that analysis?
RUMI: I do broadly agree with that. Because I think the terrorist infrastructure should be seen in a holistic manner and must not be
segregated on who is pro Pakistan and who is anti-Pakistani state. But you know, the reality is that there is a shift going on in Pakistan, but in the
last three or four decades, the scale of the problem has grown so much wider and deeper that it would take many, many years to actually root it
out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But why has it has grown so wide and so deep? There are entire areas in Pakistan that are controlled by the Taliban essentially. Little
mini states that the government has no control over. Is it that they're not doing enough to fight them? Or is it in their best interest to allow
them to live there?
RUMI: Yes, Hala, that was the case prior to let's say in 2014, particularly in the tribal belt that borders Afghanistan. And in north (inaudible) they
had created a mini (inaudible) the Taliban. But you know, a lot has happened since then, so a lot of territory has been reclaimed, but you know
these groups, the Pakistani Taliban and other - their affiliates, they exist in the small sleeper cells in major cities, in rural heartlands, and
they have a whole network of seminaries you know which are still (inaudible) to address. You know, they have an actual (inaudible) the
terrorist sort of mindset, but you know, it has to be put into practice.
[15:50:05]
GORANI: What is a network of, what do you mean by that? I mean what is allowing the ideology to continue to take hold in some of these communities
a network of seminaries?
RUMI: Yes, you see, over the last 30 years, the number of seminaries has increased well at least five to six times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUMI: I mean you know, we don't have an exact number because nobody knows, but some say it's around 30,000 (inaudible) --
GORANI: And who's funding them? I mean this is -- you always have to look where the money comes from, right? Who's funding in who's best interest is
it to have this ideology spread in a country like Pakistan and also financing groups and an ideology that is killing young children and
minorities?
RUMI: Absolutely. You know, and financing -- you know, that is the source and that has to be tracked. And unfortunately our Pakistans allies in the
Gulf countries including Saudi Arabia since (inaudible) in the 1980s have been financing this sort of structure. The U.S. also supported Pakistan in
(inaudible) seminaries and training jihadists to fight (inaudible). But you know, we have to, Pakistani state has to take action and see what is in our
national interest or not. And unfortunately, you know, there's a long road ahead that has to be sort of many, many steps have to be taken and reforms
have to be undertaken to fight this whole mess.
GORANI: Raza Rumi, thanks very much for joining us from Ithaca, New York, where you teach there as well and you are from Lehore and so it must be
very difficult for you to watch the news from afar there, thank you very much.
And a lot more coming up. Apple did not want to help the FBI break into one of its phones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But officials still managed to find a way in. How did they do it? How will Apple react? We'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well the FBI has finally been able to access the iPhone of San Bernardino shooters Syed Farook without help from Apple. This ends a high
profile legal battle, but it raises obvious questions about the overall security of Apple's devices. I'm joined by CNN Money's technology
correspondent Lori Segall live in New York.
So how did they -- bring us up to date on how authorities managed to do this.
LORI SEGALL, CNN MONEY'S TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Well Hala, what happened was about a week and a half ago, a third party actually came forward and
told the government - that they figured out a way, they could help them get in. So this wasn't a government entity that was able to get into the phone,
it was a third party. And I'll say we don't know much about the third party. There are rumors and speculation that it's an Israeli company and
they used a certain technique. But we don't know too much about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEGALL: But they were able to get into the phone, that's what the FBI is saying. That's what the government is saying and they said they were able
to extract the data. Although they're not saying much on the kind of data they're seeing or you know what exactly that is.
And I'll say this, Hala, it's a bit of a mixed bag. Because it's good news for Apple in that they've decided to withdraw the case but it's bad news
for Apple in the case that there's a flaw in the iPhone 5c that enabled the government to get in. So the question a lot of folks are asking now is
essentially, will the government go to Apple and say, you know, here's the vulnerability or will they use this vulnerability for all the cases that
they're sitting on? I want to read you what Apple said in a statement. They say "this case never should have been brought. We will continue to help law
enforcement with their investigations as we have done all along and will continue to increase the security of our products." And on the other side,
the Department of Justice said they'll continue to pursue all options to get data and for future cases whether that means going to the court or
going to phone manufacturers, Hala.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: OK. So now the third party you're saying we're not exactly clear on who it is or how they managed to get into this phone, but all along, Apple
was saying, we do not have the ability to access this phone without writing code, right? So I mean, would a third party have been able to get into the
phone without itself kind of sort of changing the code or changing the encryption technology on the phone? I mean you know I'm asking this like
someone who has no idea about the technology that goes into this. But you get my question, right? How could they have gotten in when Apple itself,
the maker of the phone said we cannot get in?
SEGALL: You know, Apple has always also said they're constantly trying to battle people who are exploiting vulnerabilities in older versions. And
what exactly this particular technique could be and it's a little technical, but they're saying it could have been something called NAND
mirroring, which is actually taking the chip out of an older version of the iPhone and copying that so you have the data and then going in and trying
to guess the ten pass words, and if you don't guess it, it automatically deletes. That's what the FBI was trying to face here. And what happens when
you put the chip back in is you know, you can actually guess as many passwords as you want.
So that's what they think they could have been. But we don't know. But you know, you can see the government coming under fire because they said they
had no other option except to get Apple to write that software. And then as soon as this received worldwide publicity, you had third parties saying
wait a second, we can help you. You actually don't need Apple to write new software.
So it raises a lot of questions and you still have the larger question, Hala, which is, this isn't going away. These devices, Apple's only building
the unbreakable phone as much as they can, so this is just going to come up in another court case and you constantly have law enforcement playing catch
up to these tech companies that are increasingly building out encryption technology to make their devices more secure.
GORANI: Well, they found another way, they got in. So we'll see how this develops. Lori Segall, thanks very much joining us from New York. I'm Hala
Gorani. Thanks for watching us and being with us this evening. "Quest Means Business" is next.
END
