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Hala Gorani Tonight
Rich And Powerful React To Panama Papers; Kremlin Dismisses "Fibs" In Panama Papers; Greece Sends First Migrants To Turkey Under EU Deal; Trump Trying To Bounce Back From Rough Week; Working to De-Radicalize Militants; Christians in Pakistan. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 04, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:00:33] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. A lot going on this hour. Happy
Monday, everyone. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
The denials have been swift and the reaction angry. Elected leaders and other top officials from around the world are responding to a massive leak
of documents. They are called the "Panama papers." Not a term you were used to hearing before today.
That's because that's the country where they originated. It is creating a firestorm of interest and reaction. Here's why. The documents contain
specific references to secret offshore companies and accounts in some cases linked to top world leaders and other prominent powerful people. Nina dos
Santos breaks it down for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The names read like a who's who of the world's elite. Heads of state and officials of soccer's
governor body FIFA (inaudible) alleged with shell companies in tropical tax haven of Panama.
The 11.5 million files on 214,000 companies from the archives of the law firm, Mossack Fonseca were obtained by a German newspaper. A 2.6 terra
bytes of information, the leak made public by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists is more than 1,500 times larger than Wikileaks
in 2010.
Among the documents, the names of 12 current or former leaders as well as 128 other politicians. Vladimir Putin whose associates are said to have
funneled $2 billion through banks and offshore firms. Allegations his aides describes as, quote, "fibs."
Argentina's new president, Mauricio Macri (ph), who denies the suggestion that he owned an undeclared stake in a Bahamas based firm.
And Iceland's Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson, (inaudible) for failing to disclose ties to an offshore company, which was run by his wife.
When pressed on the matter, he stormed out of this interview with Swedish TV. With so many allegations, some governments say that they will now
investigate. With the U.K., France, Australia, and Mexico looking at tax evasion.
JAKE BERNSTEIN, SENIOR REPORTER, INTERNATIONAL CONSORTIUM OF INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM: I think it's hugely significant. I think it's going to have
impact for months and possibly years to come. And hopefully, it will cause governments, particularly in the United States and the U.K. to sort of
reassess how they deal with these offshore secrecy (inaudible).
DOS SANTOS: Also in the spotlight, FIFA dismissing allegations of links between a member of its independent ethic committee and three men already
indicted on corruption charges by U.S. authorities.
(on camera): Setting up an offshore firm is relatively easy and entirely legal. There are legitimate reasons to do so, especially in the case of
international businesses and families that operate across many different tax jurisdictions.
But it's the secret nature of these shell companies that raised concerns about tax evasion and other criminal activities.
In a statement the law firm, Mossack Fonseca, whose documents were posted said, "We have formed more than 240,000 companies. The vast majority for
legitimate purposes."
Of course, it goes on to say, "There are some that end up being used for illegitimate activities, but that is not our responsibility".
(voice-over): With journalists still pouring over mountains of date, there may be more revelations to follow. Nina Dos Santos, CNN Money, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: It's 11.5 million files, you can imagine how long that could take, still perhaps more to come. Now the journalism group analyzing the
documents says the Russian President Vladimir Putin is not specifically named in any of them.
But the Kremlin spokesman says, quote, "It's clear that the main goal of such reports was and is our president." Let's get reaction now from our
senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance, who joins us live.
Matthew, Putin has been named in these documents, but I want to show our viewers pictures of people who are close to him (inaudible), Arcady
Rotenberg (ph) and his Boris, childhood friends of the president. Sergey Roldugan, a cellist by profession, who is named godfather to Putin's eldest
daughter.
[15:05:05]Tell us now more about the circle of people and how they feature in these leaked documents.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: These are just some of the individuals that were mentioned in the leaked documents who
are, you know, part of what has become known as Vladimir Putin's inner circle, particularly the cellist, a childhood friend essentially of
Vladimir Putin, the godfather of one of his daughters.
I mean, there are several deals. I think it's good to give an example of the kind of deals that we're talking about when we look at these
individuals. The cellist got a bank loan for instance from a Russian bank of $800 million.
And there is no indication at all in any of these documents that a single cent of that was paid back. He also fronted a company that bought an asset
for $1 and sold it some months later for $133 million.
I tell you, these are the kinds of deals that were done in the name of these individuals who are very close to Vladimir Putin. And the
implication is, the allegation is, that it's really Vladimir Putin that is signing off on all of these transactions and he is the ultimate beneficiary
of all of this.
It's something the Kremlin has categorically denied saying this is just an attempt to discredit the Russian leader ahead of the presidential elections
later this year.
GORANI: All right. So that's the reaction from the Kremlin. Is it likely to have any kind of impact on Vladimir Putin himself, the fact that, you
know, these leaked documents are available? They have been analyze by a journalist. They feature the names of men who are extremely close to him?
CHANCE: It's not going to do his reputation any favors overseas, of course. But in Russia, I think there is a jaded attitude towards
allegations of corruption at the highest level in the Kremlin. I mean, this isn't the first time of course.
It's not even the tenth time that there have been serious allegations leveled at Vladimir Putin and those surrounding him. Just last week there
was a very serious report, an allegation released saying, that many women close to Vladimir Putin had received elite properties in the Russian
capital for no other apparent reason other than they were close to Vladimir Putin.
And so I think the Russian public is, you know, already familiar with these allegations. They don't seem to dent his soaring popularity which is
running at something like 85 percent according to the latest polls. And I have not seen any indication yet that this is going to be any different
this time.
GORANI: All right, senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance live in Moscow, thanks very much for the reaction from Russia.
Let's dial it back bit now and look at the bigger picture. CNN Money's editor-at-large, Richard Quest, joins me now to break this all down.
So first, Richard, let's explain the mechanics of all of this, how an offshore company works, how money might be hidden there. How does it all
come together?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN MONEY EDITOR-AT-LARGE: The goal here, Hala, is to put in place, if you like, a shield, a window. Something beyond which you
cannot see and you keep moving it and you keep moving the people involved, and nobody can ever actually tell who is behind it.
That is the idea of the way the whole thing is put together and it's not just Panama that's been involved. These so-called shell companies, these
nominee shareholders, these bearer shareholders, it's all designed as a shell.
The reasons you might want to do it, you might be shielding assets from creditors or (inaudible) spouse. You might be dodging sanctions, avoiding
taxation.
You might simply have an overwhelming wish, Hala, of privacy. But on its own, an offshore bank account with an offshore shell company is by no means
illegal.
GORANI: All right. We've established that. Let's talk a little bit about the specific number of people involved. I'm looking at my notes here, 12
current and former world leaders mentioned in some of these leaked documents.
And the Icelandic prime minister not too happy, by the way, when a Swedish television crew asked him about these allegation. Take a look at what
happened when he was faced with some of those questions.
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GORANI: He is basically saying, I wasn't told I was going to be asked these particular questions, got up, left the room. What specifically is
the allegation against the Icelandic prime minister?
[15:10:04]QUEST: The allegation is that he had an interest in a bank, that the bank that he owned belongs to a bank that was subsequently bailed out
by international lenders and because it was then bailed out basically he benefitted as a result.
Look, that's not illegal, but the hypocritical part is he never disclosed it. He never disclosed the interest in the bank, which he then sold for a
nominal amount to his wife.
So -- I mean, I think it's breathtaking that he says he never expected those questions to be asked. If he sat down with a journalist today having
had the Panama leaks in the last 24 hours and was not expecting chapter and verse one wonders how he became the prime minister.
GORANI: By the way, there are protests ongoing now. I haven't seen the video, but my producer is saying there were protests against I understand -
- against the prime minister in the aftermath of the leak of those documents.
QUEST: Right.
GORANI: What are we seeing here, Laura? Because I'm not sure what that is. Those are pictures I believe of the people protesting. So let me ask
you this, though, Richard, because what are the potential repercussions of all of this? It's not a huge -- rich people, powerful people -- are we
surprised that they hide their money and have offshore accounts?
QUEST: That's the old argument that we've always known they are up to it, but what this does is show the trail. It shows the web of intrigue. For
instance the top intermediary countries involved, Hong Kong, the United Kingdom, Switzerland, the United States, and Panama.
And now look at the top five havens, these are where the money was being -- the British Virgin Islands, Panama, Bahamas, Seychelles, and Nieu.
The answer, Hala, is simple. Here you have the first concrete inside examples. Not just of rumors or gossip, but proof that they were being
used and it will lead to a stench of hypocrisy from some, illegality from others and downright dishonesty from some more.
GORANI: All right, Richard Quest, thanks very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Richard was mentioning 12
current and former world leaders. We're talking 11.5 million files a lot to look into.
And we will be speaking with the group that analyzed these documents, the group of investigative journalists who looked over many of these documents
and files over a period of many, many months as well. And we will bring you that in about 15 minutes. So stay tuned.
Now, though, let's talk about the refugee crisis. You will remember that Europe came up with a deal that involved sending some of the migrants back
from Greece to Turkey. Greece has now done it.
As part of that controversial new agreement reached between the E.U. and Turkey to deal with Europe's migrant crisis. Three boats carried more than
200 people from the Greek islands of Lesvos and Chios.
Most were not from the Middle East, most were from Pakistan on this particular boat. Greek officials say the migrants had not applied for
asylum. Erin McLaughlin has more on their journey back to Turkey.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under the cover of darkness, the buses arrive, full of disappointment and disbelief. These
are the first migrants to be deported from Greece back to Turkey.
Part of a deal meant to discourage migrants from making the deadly sea crossing that has wreaked havoc on Europe's borders. Authorities are
taking no chances. There is heavy police presence. One border officer for every migrant.
Some migrants even handcuffed. For now, they are deporting men. Not a woman or child to be found. From places from Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Migrants looking for a better life.
A sadden to a journey once fueled by hope. They were bussed in from a detention center, here morale is at an all-time low after all these people
faced a similar fate. Migrants aren't allowed to leave and journalists aren't allowed in. We talked to them through a wire fence.
(on camera): So that's your number?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): This Afghan migrant tells me he sold all of his possessions in Kabul to fund his trip from Turkey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think dying is better than going back to Turkey or Afghanistan.
MCLAUGHLIN: These men say they will get to Europe no matter what the price.
(on camera): Will you try to come back to Europe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. We will come back (inaudible).
MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Authorities intervene and stop us from talking further. We are asked to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go, go.
MCLAUGHLIN: That determination we saw at the detention center still evident in the waters off Greece.
(on camera): NATO boats now patrol these waters but those efforts are not enough. Doting the coastline you still see life jackets from migrants who
just arrived.
[15:15:08](voice-over): On this day there were more life jackets than the number of migrants deported. That is a problem for E.U. and Turkish
officials. Their deal depends on stopping that flow.
As the first boat loads of migrants leave for Turkey, the Greek Coast Guard arrives, new migrants on board, ready to take their place. Erin
McLaughlin, CNN, Lesvos, Greece.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Here's a look at the dangerous journey many migrants take to get to Europe. One of the popular routes is from Syria into Turkey and then
onto Greece with thousands making the dangerous journey through the islands across the Aegean Sea.
Our Phil Black is in Turkey. First all, Phil, how many people have been sent back from Greece to Turkey today? Do we know?
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, 202 is the precise figure, Hala. As you have been discussing there, the majority of them from
Pakistan, some from Afghanistan. Some other countries as well. Only two of them were from Syria. The authorities made the point that those two
Syrians were voluntary returns -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. And let's remind everyone the key points of the deal between the E.U. and Turkey. Turkey will now take back all migrants who
arrive in Greece from Turkey without asylum status.
The E.U. will settle one Syrian asylum seeker from Turkey for every Syrian returned to the country. The E.U. will also speed up payment of $3.3
billion already promised to Turkey.
And the E.U. will wave visa requirements for Turkish citizens by the end of June. Now let me ask you this, though, is this a workable plan? How is it
going to be implemented?
Now we have one or two boats. Fine. But I mean, when you have in the summer thousands and thousands of people, how is that going to work?
BLACK: Well, that's going to be the key measure of success, I think. So it's not all migrants in Greece that will be sent back. It is only those
who either don't apply for asylum and choose to come back or those who apply for asylum and rejected as a result.
If you accept that the majority of the migrants are Syrian, they could still avoid coming back here by applying for full permanent refugee status
to apply fully in Greece because being Syrians they stand a pretty good chance of receiving that protected status if they ask for it.
So that means that perhaps in the long term the actual numbers of migrants currently in Greece won't change too much. The real measure, if you like,
the test will be what happens in the months ahead.
Will this harder line deter others from making the journey? If that happens we'll get a sense of that during the warmer spring and summer
months.
GORANI: What about Turkish people? I mean, Europeans are not shy about saying we don't want these migrants. We don't want Afghans and Pakistanis.
We will make some exception for Syrians because they are fleeing the war zone. But what about the Turks? What are they saying when these boat
loads of young men are sent back to their country?
BLACK: Well, it's a mixed view. As you know, the migrant situation in Turkey has been extraordinary for some five years now. The numbers here
are really pretty incredible. There are said to be 2.7 million Syrians within Turkish borders at the moment.
That's been growing steadily throughout the Syrian conflict. So if you look at few hundred coming back today, that's not really a major change to
the situation here.
And even if that continues in the days and weeks ahead, those sorts of numbers won't alter too much. And again, it comes down to the makeup of
who those migrants are.
If they are Syrians, then they have established camps, they have processes set here. We understand that when Syrians do come back they are not come
back from the boats.
They are going to be flown directly from the Greek islands to the south of Turkey to locations very close to where those large refugee camps, where
the most of the Syrian population currently is -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Phil Black, thanks very much, in Turkey.
Just ahead, Donald Trump was already facing an uphill battle in the next presidential primary. That was before his controversial remarks on
abortion. How the Republican frontrunner is trying to put a very rocky week behind him also coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were doing about 70 percent of our work for free. What ended up happening is that even that agreement has now disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That man works on a de-radicalization program in the U.K., but says his funds are running dry. We'll have the full story later in the
program. Stay with us.
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[05:22:07]
GORANI: Donald Trump is turning up the heat on one of his Republican rivals for the White House. He told voters in Wisconsin today that John
Kasich, quote, "ought to get the hell out of the U.S. presidential election. Are these live images? I believe they are.
They are coming to us from Superior, Wisconsin. That state holds a critical primary tomorrow. Trump is now predicting victory, defying polls
that say otherwise. As Jason Carroll reports, Trump himself is feeling the heat after his rockiest week yet on the campaign trail.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donald Trump remaining defiant as ever saying he has had rough weeks before and he has come out on
top. He is making a prediction saying that he will come out on top here in Wisconsin come tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): GOP candidates making their final sprint to Wisconsin's primary tomorrow, barn storming the battle ground state. Trump
admitting to having a rough week leading up to primary day after a slew of missteps in his campaign.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I took that answer, and I -- I didn't like it because I think a lot of people didn't understand it.
CARROLL: At a town hall Sunday the frontrunner still struggling to articulate his shifting stance on abortion after saying that if abortion
were outlawed, women who get the procedure should be punished.
TRUMP: Women go through a lot. They go through a tremendous punishment of themselves. And I didn't like because I wasn't sure if people would
understand it. So I clarified it, but it was just a clarification and I think it was well accepted.
CARROLL: In a move to stem disapproval from women voters, Trump also saying he regrets retweeting a mean-spirited photo of Ted Cruz's wife. But
Cruz who leads Trump in Wisconsin says he is over it.
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's gotten to the point where I could not care less about Donald Trump.
CARROLL: Fueling the firestorm, Trump still standing by his campaign manager, facing battery charges for an alleged assault on a reporter. The
billionaire fighting to make last-minute gains in the state with an aggressive anti-Trump movement. Trump taking aim at rivals Cruz.
TRUMP: He is a cheater. He is a cheater. He is a dirty, rotten cheat. Remember that.
CARROLL: And John Kasich.
TRUMP: Everyone says he is such a nice guy. He is not a nice guy. He is a nasty guy if you want to know the truth.
CARROLL: Trump doubling down on calls for the Ohio governor arguing that Kasich is taking his votes and has no chance of winning the nomination.
TRUMP: The problem is he is in the way of me. Not Cruz. He hurts me more than he hurts Cruz.
CARROLL: Another lingering issue, controversy over Trump's suggestion Japan and South Korea developed nuclear arms to protect themselves.
JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You don't go running around talking about using nuclear weapons. Period. End of story.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Trump also taking heat for those controversial statements he made about the U.S. economy saying that the country is heading for a recession
and that it is a, quote, "terrible time to invest in the stock market."
[15:25:05]His daughter, Ivanka, telling him to be more presidential. Trump saying he will be more presidential once Kasich and Cruz drop out of the
race. Jason Carroll, CNN, La Crosse, Wisconsin.
GORANI: Let's take you back to the town of Superior, Wisconsin, one of three Trump campaign events today going on right now. Our Jim Acosta is
there at that very event.
Jim, Donald Trump is saying, you know, don't pay attention to the polls. We're going to win in Wisconsin tomorrow.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Yes, that's what he's saying right now, Hala. He is furiously trying to make a comeback in
this state. He is behind in the polls by anywhere between 5 to 10 points to Ted Cruz and John Kasich, who isn't even competing in this state, by the
way.
You look at some of these polls, John Kasich is in the high teens to low 20s. So you've heard Donald Trump over the last 24 to 48 hours not only go
after Ted Cruz. He repeatedly calls Ted Cruz "Lying Ted."
That's his nickname for the Texas senator. He has been going after John Kasich in ways we have not seen throughout the course of this campaign. It
has definitely taken on a fevered pitch.
Part of that is because -- and Donald Trump is very plain spoken about, this he feels the Ohio governor is taking votes away from him, essentially
playing the role of a spoiler.
And last night here in Wisconsin Donald Trump called John Kasich a, quote, "disgrace for doing that." Earlier at this event here in Superior,
Wisconsin, in the far northwestern part of the state Donald Trump, just said well that's just unfair the John Kasich is staying the race.
The Ohio governor is in New York. He is saying, you know what, it's too bad Donald Trump. He is saying he is staying in this race. He feels he
has the right to stay in the race.
But Hala, I will tell you. One interesting development that we are seeing and you are hearing some of it out on the campaign trail -- you are hearing
these candidates talking about a contested convention.
What happens if they go to the convention in Cleveland in July and nobody has the magic number of 1,237? Both Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are
basically saying they are going to hold John Kasich to this rule where you have to have eight or more states under your belt.
That you have won in eight or more states in order to be on the ballot in the convention. The feeling is with both of these campaigns, which really
going after each tooth and nails, is that perhaps by joining forces at least on this one small question they might be able to nudge John Kasich
out of the race.
At this point, does not seem likely. Now we should point out Donald Trump will be in Milwaukee later on tonight. He is going to have an event, which
could have a volatile mix involved.
It's going to be right down the street from a Bernie Sanders rally. As you know, Hala, Bernie Sanders supporters have been showing up as protesters as
Donald Trump rallies. That will be interesting to watch later on tonight.
GORANI: All right, we've seen them protest here and there. Bernie Sanders supporters, thanks very much. Jim Acosta is in Superior, Wisconsin.
We'll, following very closely. That primary contest in that important state.
Important because it comes at a crucial time and of course, a few days after that we have the state of New York with its many delegates.
Now, the panama papers are whipping up a firestorm of interest and reaction. We'll speak with the deputy director of the International
Consortium of Investigative Journalists, which coordinated the analysis of the documents on the front lines of pouring over 11.5 million files.
And fighting terrorism in Europe. We look at a program in the U.K. that tries to reform jihadists, but says it is running low on money. Stay with
us.
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[15:30:55]
GORANI: Welcome back, a look at our top stories. National leaders and other top officials from around the world, some very rich and powerful
people are responding to a massive leak of documents called the Panama Papers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The documents contain specific references to secret offshore companies and accounts in some cases linked the political leaders in power
and others close to prominent powerful people like the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Also among the big stories we are following, Greece has deported its first set of migrants back to Turkey under a new deal between Turkey
and the E.U.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: 202 migrants arrived in the port down of Dikili early Monday morning on three boats. Greek officials say the migrants had not applied
for asylum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Donald Trump is predicting a big victory on the eve of a critical primary in Wisconsin despite polls that show him trailing far behind Ted
Cruz in that state. Trump blames his other Republican Presidential rival, John Kasich from taking votes away from him. He is calling on Kasich to
quit the race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And this is what is happening in the business world right now before we move on. A look at the Dow. We're down 62 points 17,729. NASDAQ
and S&P quickly, it's a down day all around by the way on this Monday, a few worries there about some markets in Asia and other concerns. NASDAQ and
S&P. And here's a look at Europe across the board it was mildly positive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Top world leaders and other prominent officials are strenuously denying suggestions in leaked documents that they own or control secret
offshore companies and accounts containing billions of dollars in hidden assets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: A Kremlin spokesperson says allegations against associates of Vladimir Putin are, "another series of fibs." The group analyzing the
documents says Putin is not mentioned by name in any of the documents. Iceland's Prime Minister's office says a firm he is accused of having
secret ties to was merely a holding company for his wife's assets.
More reaction, Argentina's President, Macri, is alleged to have been a director of a company in the Bahamas. A spokesman of the President said he
never had a stake in the company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's speak to Marina Walker-Guevara, she's the Deputy Director of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists which coordinated
the analysis of the documents and she joins me now from Washington.
Marina, thanks for being with us. How significant in your opinion, your group having looked over all of these files more than 11 million of them,
how significant is this leak? Why?
MARINA WALKER GUEVARA, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, ICIJ: It is very significant because we -- it allows us to look into the secret world of tax havens in a
way we have never been able to do before. We are talking about more than 11 million records spanning nearly 40 years. And in these records of course we
have found in some ways the usual suspects when we talk about like, you know businessmen who use the offshore world, or celebrities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUEVARA: But we have also found a troubling amount of politicians, public officials, sitting officials, people who work in the Supreme Court in
countries, or governors. And the big question is why go to -- through the trouble of setting up a company in a so call tax haven where it will be
impossible or virtually impossible to link your name to that company?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But, Marina, all these world leaders, these executives, the people named, are all denying that they did anything wrong, and in the end
establishing a shell company is not technically illegal. The Kremlin is saying this is yet another campaign to discredit Vladimir Putin. How do you
react to the responses we've been getting from these powerful people today?
GUEVARA: The reality is that tax havens allow secrecy, allow a whole deal - - a whole bunch of criminality to go through it. And these politicians are swimming in the same waters in these tax havens, so to speak, as drug
traffickers, as arm dealers, and scammers of all sorts, Ponzi schemers. And so it's very relevant and important and it is definitely of public interest
to explain why the choice to have assets or to create companies in the secrecy jurisdictions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUEVARA: In the case of the Kremlin, for example, close associates of President Putin, including childhood friends, the godfather of his own
daughter, are seen participating in these companies and shuffling money around the world, hundreds of millions of dollars at a time. Gaining
influence in companies in a state owned companies in Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUEVARA: So all of these deals are really raise important questions about transparency and about also the use of public funds for personal gain.
GORANI: And presumably I was going to say Marina, presumably we'll get more because this is such a huge strove of documents.
But I want to read for our viewers the response of the Panamanian Law Firm, Mossack Fonseca, where this leak came from. The documents apparently
originated from there. The company says, in part, "while we may have been the victim of a data breach, nothing we've seen in this illegally obtained
cache of documents suggests we have done anything illegal, and that is very much in keeping with the global reputation we've built over the past 40
years of doing business the right way, right here in Panama."
So the company itself is saying don't point the finger of blame at us, we have done nothing wrong, nothing illegal. How do you react to that?
GUEVARA: Well, we have seen and we have reported in case after case that this company, when their clients were in trouble in courts in various
cases, including here in the United States, they hid documents, they destroyed documents, they moved documents to other countries. The company
also proactively advised their clients around the world on different ways to evade taxes, how to create companies, how to hide money in foundations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUEVARA: They even in some cases provided what is called a Natural Person Nominee, which is a fake beneficial owner for certain accounts and for
certain companies, which is something that is almost unseen even in the offshore world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. So the company again denying that -- let me -- what is the source of all this leak? We understand from your director that it was a
single individual.
GUEVARA: We prefer to not talk about sources, whether it was one or two or 20. These were anonymous sources, people who approached our partners in
(inaudible) the German newspaper.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUEVARA: And they said we have data that is important that is of public interest. They asked how big. And they said this is bigger than anything
you have seen before. And it turned out to be right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was coming from your director, actually. So this is something that came from someone who was concerned that potentially wrongdoing was
occurring. And then essentially went to government, right, to share this information?
GUEVARA: They have been whistleblowers that have approached several governments arou8nd the we understand including the U.S. Government. And
some of those governments such as the German government and the Iceland government have acquired, bought part of that information, a small part.
GORANI: All right. And can we expect more to come out then?
GUEVARA: This is such a huge leak, and we are still working through the stories. You are going to see more stories coming out this week. We are
going to be looking into China. We are going to be looking into how the associates and the relatives of bureau members in China use the offshore
world. And we are also going to be publishing more about FIFA and the world of sports and its connections to the offshore system.
And then we will be welcoming more journalists to go through the data, especially in countries where we haven't had a chance to work yet. So I
think there is going to be a resource for journalists for months and weeks to come.
GORANI: All right, Marina Walker Guevara thank you very much for joining us from Washington. We appreciate your time. The Deputy Director of the ICIJ,
who pored over the documents. Thank so much.
The specter of terrorism once again on the minds of many across Europe after those recent attacks in Brussels. One way the United Kingdom is
trying to curb that threat is the to try to de-radicalize people at risk through government programs. The aim is to help convicted jihadists get
back into society after they leave prison and not drift back into that extremism.
But as Nic Robertson reports, one de-radicalizer says he's running out of funds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN HORNER, REFORMED EXTREMIST: This is a (inaudible) area, get out of here, mate - get out of here mate.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Three years ago in London.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Why are you bothering me I'm not --
HORNER: Because you're walking through a Muslim area - you're walking through a Muslim area dressed like a [bleep]. You need to get out of here.
[15:60:02]
ROBERTSON: A Muslim vigilante patrol. The threatening voice, that's Jordan Horner. Today he says he is a changed man.
HORNER: It's something which, when I was sincere to myself I said yes it was something for which I was regretting.
ROBERTSON: Back then he was a Muslim radical, praised Muslim killers. He was dangerous and went to jail. Today he credits this man, former cage
fighter and de-radicalizer, Usman Raja with turning him around.
HORNER: That made me understand that, you know, that the actions that I did do were not Islamic.
DOUGLAS WEEKS, TERROR EXPERT, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY: Usman works and is able to re-conceptualize things for the individuals in a way that allows
them to challenge their own internal beliefs. There is a very, very select few that are actually quite effective in what they do. Usman of course is
one of those in that very small group.
ROBERTSON: Getting de-radicalizing right has never been so important. British officials estimate about 800 people have gone to join ISIS in Iraq
and Syria, and about half of those have come back. And then there's Jordan Horner and others like him, an unknown number who radicalized and never
left. But what Usman Raja, who I have been covering for many years is telling me is shocking. That his scant government funding is drying up as
authorities reevaluate their programs.
Always working on a shoe string, he is down to his last $200 in an overdraft account.
USMAN RAJA, DE-RADICALIST: We were doing about 70% of our work for free. What ended up happening is that even that agreement has now disappeared.
ROBERTSON: But he is still in demand. Plenty of jail terrorists are asking for his help.
I wanted to go after a few weeks but I couldn't go on my own. And he says you know I still have terrible nightmares and I want you to help me.
This letter he says from (Imran Quarja), a British radical who joined ISIS in Syria. Now a convicted terrorist.
RAJA: We're not able to reach those individuals because there isn't an understanding there of how to deal with this phenomenon.
ROBERTSON: He is frustrated and so is expert Douglas Weeks. Both says most de-radicalization programs can alienate radicals.
WEEKS: What they're saying is you're wrong. And so you immediately have this confrontational approach.
ROBERTS: The British governments prevent de-radicalization strategy, details hundreds of peo0ple who have been helped through education,
criminal justice, faith, charities, on line and health approaches to de- radicalization.
In jail, Horner says authorities tried de-radicalizing him using a psychological approach, telling him he was wrong, to be a good husband, a
good father. Nothing worked until he met Raja.
HORNER: I knew I was a father. I knew I was a husband. But I still did what I did. Once I knew from a religious perspective what I did was incorrect
then I had to question OK what's the solution.
ROBERTS: A solution it seems may be at hand. Embracing it still a challenge.
Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, we reached out to the British government for an interview on this story. They have not provided that to us as of yet, to respond to some
of these complaints that these de-radicalization programs just don't have enough money.
Now, Christians in Pakistan are calling on the government to do for to protect them after the devastating bombing in Lahore on Easter Sunday.
Saima Mohsin shows us how some Christian communities are feeling isolated and vulnerable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gunmen guarding a church. I meet Pastor Shakeel and say it's strange to see gunmen outside a place of worship.
"We have 20 to guard us on a Sunday," he says. Jehanabad is the most densely populated Christian area in Pakistan. It was attacked last year.
Inside, the free-Church school, there are usually 40 children in this class. But many are too scared to attend since the Lahore park bombing.
Pastor Shakeel has buried six of his flock in one day.
SHAKEEL ANJUM, PASTOR, CHILDREN'S CHAPEL CHURCH: (As translated): Our people are very poor. They can't afford the time to protest out there. We
really need the support of Muslims of Pakistan and the government. As Christians we love and pray for Pakistan.
MOHSIN: In a national address Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif said each and every drop of blood is being counted. The score will be settled. It's being
settled apparently by the military and police in raids on terrorist hideouts across the country.
CECIL CHAUDHRY, MINORITY RIGHTS WORKER: What about the beast within us? What about the beast that is within our houses and our society? If we do
not address those problems this military problem will be of waste.
[15:45:05]
MOHSIN: Minority rights worker, Cecil Chaudhry says successive governments have made space for extremists. The roots of radicalization of Pakistan
are in its biased laws.
CHAUDHRY: When you exclude the role of religious minorities from your textbooks when you start putting material that is biased towards or
discriminatory towards other faiths so how will they actually respect minorities when they grow up.
MOHSIN: Cecil's father a decorated war veteran and pilot in two wars has been removed from the history books. And this add clearly says it's looking
for non-Muslims to clean toilets. The ad was later retracted but exposed the institutionalized discrimination.
In Jehanabad, we found the Christian community feels isolated and neglected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband is a day laborer but sometimes doesn't find work. I only get cleaning jobs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (As translated) "It's clear our air is negative elected because we are Christians, no roads or pavements, no running water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If our voices aren't being heard, how can we live here? We are under attack?
MOHSIN: The blasphemy law has often been manipulated to persecute minorities, including Christians. In a highly publicized case Asia Bibi a
Christian mother of five was sentenced to death for blasphemy. Salmaan Taseer, the Muslim Governor of Punjab called for the death penalty to be
revoked. He was gunned down by his own guard.
At Sunday's service, a special song praying not just for Christians, but for citizens of all faiths in Pakistan who should be seen as equals in the
eyes of the state.
Saima Mohsin, CNN, Lahore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This is the "The World Right Now." Much more on the American presidential race just ahead, including Donald Trump's troubles in
Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: He is making a last-minute pitch to voters there on the eve of a crucial primary. We'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: We are now just hours away from the next Presidential primary in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Voters in Wisconsin go to the polls tomorrow. It's expected to be a crucial contest for both parties. There are 42 delegates at stake for the
Republicans. 86 pledged delegates for the Democrats. Local officials say they could see the state's biggest voter turnout for a primary in 36 years.
On the Republican side polls show Ted Cruz leading Donald Trump. However, Donald Trump is not letting that affect his enthusiasm. He is still
predicting victory, urging voters to prove the pollsters wrong.
Let's get some perspective now from one of our CNN political commentators and a Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord who joins us now live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So this poll is not looking good for Donald Trump. We are I believe about 12 points -- there is a big 12-point gap between Ted Cruz who is
leading in Wisconsin. Why is Donald Trump confident at this late stage?
[15:50:12]
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well there are other polls I've seen other polls that have him down by seven, others where he is doing a little
better than that. The thing to keep in mind Hala, if you remember Iowa, where Donald Trump came in second -- and that was greeted like it was the
end of the world -- soon thereafter that was followed by New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: And shortly after we get through with Wisconsin we will be heading into territory that is distinctly favorable to Donald Trump. His own New
York for one, here in Pennsylvania for another. I think New Jersey, Delaware, places like that. So this is one step along the way. I think he
is still going to keep going. Historically speaking, nominees or potential nominees that get this far ahead have never lost since 1960.
GORANI: OK, but I think even within the Trump camp there has to be some level of admission that some of these comments he made about abortion
initially how women should --
LORD: Well I think he himself -
GORANI: Yes, he himself admits it.
LORD: Right, right, right.
GORANI: That's hurt him, that's hurt him. Clearly he is not making up the difference. He is not closing the gap with Ted Cruz in Wisconsin. And it is
an important contest.
LORD: Oh, sure. Of course it's important. You want to win every single contest that there is. But there is a lot going on here. I notice today
just about an hour ago there was a story in the Washington Post that Governor Kasich has attacked Senator Cruz has a smear artist. So you can
see that this goes beyond Donald Trump and this fight is going to go on between the three of them for quite some time.
GORANI: Speaking of John Kasich, Donald Trump is saying he ought to get the hell out of the race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Without him, I'd automatically win. I mean is that not a sign of desperation, that he is now just taking aim at the man who is third in the
polls, a distant third at this stage?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: Well, no it's -- I mean, you know, all of these people are in this to win. And there is a poll out --
GORANI: But why should John Kasich drop out? He is allowed to run and keep running?
LORD: And what, I'm sorry?
GORANI: Why should John Kasich drop out to benefit Donald Trump?
LORD: Well so far he has shown ability to be elected President of Ohio and even that was a close call. He hasn't won anything else period. So it would
make perfect sense for him to give up the ghost. But I assure John Kasich is not going to do that.
There is a poll out there that shows Kasich voters' second choice in all of this is Donald Trump. So of course, I think Donald Trump is right about
this, that if John Kasich were to go a lot of his support would go to Donald Trump. But Governor Kasich I'm sure has no intention of dropping
out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: No, he does not. Help us understand because you support Donald Trump so I'm sure you study all of his proposals very carefully. But for
those of us who read about them after he has made them there were some raised eyebrows. Donald Trump has proposed to eliminate the U.S'. debt. Not
to eliminate its deficit year on year, its entire debt of $19 trillion in eight years while cutting taxes and building a wall with Mexico.
LORD: Right.
GORANI: How exactly would that work?
LORD: Well, first of all, as Art Lafleur, President Reagan's former adviser and the father of Reaganomics if you will tax cuts, income tax rate cuts
which worked in the Reagan years and worked for Bill Clinton as well I might add, has pointing out the obvious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORD: That when you start selling assets in this country for example the Camp Pendleton in the United States, in California, could - I mean why do
we need it? You can sell it? California land prices these days are pretty pricey. You can sell a lot of assets within the United States to get you on
the road to this. You can't do it all by itself. But you have got to think differently. You have got to approach this as a businessman, not as
government and politicians because that's how we got in this hole to begin with.
So there are a lot of different ways raising government revenue through decreasing income tax rates is certainly another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: OK. Thank you very much Jeffrey Lord. As always, for joining us with the very latest on Donald Trump's campaign.
LORD: Thanks Hala, thanks, any time.
GORANI: And we'll be following of course the primary vote tomorrow both for the Democrats and the Republicans, let's see how Donald Trump does. Thanks
very much. And remember to join us on CNN all day Tuesday for complete coverage of those critical contests.
Coming up, today is International Land Mine awareness day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: We'll show you how a special animal is helping out. Usually not a darling of pet owners in the cities, but in this case doing quite
remarkable work elsewhere. We'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:56:10]
GORANI: Well we talked about this on Facebook, and lots of reaction on this story. Air France says female crew members can opt out of flying to Iran if
they don't like the country's dress code.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The airline is expected to resume flights to Tehran on April 17th and says female crew must wear head scarves and long loose fitting clothing
once they get off the plane. The Air Crew Union was angry about this, they attacked the new requirement but later said it was fair to allow employees
to opt out of those flights if they don't want to wear the head scarf and don't want to wear the loose fitting jacket when they disembark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now they usually reside in the sewers and are not perceived as the most hygienic animals but rats believe it or not are being hailed as heroes
for a rather unique reason.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: An organization based East Africa is using them to detect land mines. And yes, that is a rat on a leash. The rodent is 96 times faster at
spotting the explosive than a technician with a metal detector. And a rat can clear 200 square feet in an hour. It would take 50 hours if done
manually.
(Apapo) has been training the rats in Mozambique and in other East African nations for years, all this of course in honor -- it is not a random moment
for you guys -- it's all in honor of International Land Mine Awareness Day, weapons of war that still maim and kill so many innocents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Don't forget, check out our Facebook page, Facebook.com/halagoranicnn. I'm Hala Gorani. "Quest Means Business" is up
next.
END
