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Hala Gorani Tonight
Wikileaks Says Documents Reveal CIA Spying Program; U.S. Criminal Probe Opened Into Wikileaks Release; Tech Companies Vow To Fix Flaws Amid Hacking Allegations; Sources: Obama Exasperated By Trump Claim; More Than 30 Dead, 50 Wounded In Afghan Attack. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired March 08, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN London. Thanks for being with us on this Wednesday. This is
THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
There are new investigations underway on two continents this evening over the WikiLeaks bombshell about alleged CIA hacking. U.S. officials are
telling CNN, the FBI and CIA are coordinating a federal criminal investigation.
What do they want to do? They want to figure who leaks all this stuff. WikiLeaks released thousands of documents that it says reveal high tech
espionage. It says the CIA is using cell phones, laptops, even televisions as cyber weapons to spy on people around the world.
And says the U.S. consulate in Germany is being used as a secret base for hacking operations. Germany today said it's reviewing the documents as
well looking as well and looking for evidence of any crimes.
The White House had this to say a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He is very concerned about the allegations that are out there in terms of what may or may not happen. It
is an allegation. It is something that we are not going to confirm at this time, but as you can imagine from the president's previous comments, he is
extremely concerned about this, about these allegations, about this -- about the potential that something if this were true would have on our
national security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN investigative reporter, Jose Pagliery, has been digging into the story for us and he joins us now from New York with more. So, of
course, the FBI, the CIA, the government not confirming that these are legit, that these are actual documents that were leaked from the CIA. But
I mean, it seems as though experts are saying they look pretty authentic, right?
JOSE PAGLIERY, CNN MONEY INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Sure so far they seem authentic and if there were no documents that were authentic, we wouldn't
be seeing a CIA and FBI investigation into what essentially will be a mole hunt to figure out who leaked this stuff, right?
And so that sort of lend some credibility to whether or not these are authentic. Now CNN is not in a position to say that all these documents
are authentic or even what exactly these documents fully alleged.
But WikiLeaks is claiming here that the way they got these documents is that the CIA lost control, that's language that WikiLeaks used, CIA lost
control of it cyber weapons arsenal.
If that's true that's extremely dangerous because cyber weapons are used to spy on people and so the potential here is that cyber criminals have these
that will make it easier for them to steal money for them to log into personal accounts and steal personal information or for authoritarian
government to use them against their own people and crush dissent. And so there is a danger to this.
GORANI: And what does it reveal really? I mean, it revealed if these are authentic documents that the CIA in coordination also with foreign partners
essentially using devices, smartphones, televisions even to spy on people.
PAGLIERY: To a certain extent that's not very surprising, right? What's surprising about this is not that an intelligence agency was spying on
others, but that's just them doing their job. The surprising part here is that the CIA would essentially be the preeminent hacking organization for
the United States.
That is a role that traditionally we believe that the NSA has taken and so when people normally only think of the CIA to think of human spies, right,
gathering of human intelligence those kinds of secrets, this sort of turns that idea and attendances that the CIA actually has two functions the human
side and also the signals and electronic side.
So although that's not very surprising, the surprising part would be whether or not these tools got onto the wrong hands and how exactly these
tools are being used.
GORANI: Yes, right. And the tech companies are upset about this, right? I mean, these are some of their devices, finding backdoors allegedly to
what many people thought were encrypted methods of communication?
PAGLIERY: Sure. Now, look, the comments that we've gone from the major manufacturers here, we're talking about Apple, Samsung, companies like
Google and Microsoft, that have a huge stake in software and hardware at stake here, they are -- there comments are sort of interesting.
[15:05:10]They are saying that they are looking at it. Some of them are saying that they have addressed some of these issues already. They are
being careful in their statements not to seem too aggressive to the government, for the agency here, because again this would not be a
surprise. These companies know that their devices are targets for hackers and they are constantly trying to improve them.
GORANI: All right, Jose Pagliery, thanks very much, our investigative reporter looking into this story. Our next guest has an insider's
perspective on the CIA's secret operation. Mike Baker was a covert operations officer for the intelligence agencies, now president of
Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm.
So ideally positioned to comment on this. So Mike, first of all let's talk a little bit about -- I mean, what did you make of this big dumb of
documents here. If they are legitimate and authentic and after all the FBI and CIA are launching a criminal investigation so presumably they believe
at least some of them are. How damaging is this to them?
MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVER OPERATIONS OFFICER: Well, yes, if they prove to be legitimate and you know, there are a lot of people going through this
still and as it was correctly pointed out there hasn't been an official statement from the intel community or the government.
If they are legitimate then I guess like many people I'm shocked to find out that there is gambling going on at Rick's Cafe, yes, this is as was
just pointed out was that this is what a spy organization does.
And you say, well, why would they possibly want to, you know, turn a television into a monitor? Why would they want to turn your phone into a
receiver? Why would they want to remotely gain access to your car?
Well, frankly, it's a community of nations out there, and we don't all live in peace and harmony, and it's not as if we should be coy about this. This
not as if the U.S. for engaging these activities the only country doing this.
And so if you think about a terrorist or you think about a cartel member or you think about a North Korean nuclear proliferators or whomever may be out
there as a target for a collection of intelligence to protect --
GORANI: But you didn't the CIA, though -- but what Jose Pagliery was saying is that the belief was that this would be an NSA activity, not a CIA
activity. And the other criticism is that means the CIA and American intelligence organizations that they are keeping some of these devices
knowingly vulnerable in order to exploit those vulnerabilities?
BAKER: Shocking. Again, I go back to the same thing. I mean, again, there's -- I understand and believe me, I'm a big proponent, has been a
long time behind the curtain, and I've seen a lot of things. I'm a big proponent of checks and balances, and ensuring that you have processes.
And whether it's the Senate Intel Committee, the House Intel Committee, you know, a curious and reasoned and questioning, you know, Capitol Hill that -
- that looks and reviews of what the agency is doing, I'm a big proponent of that.
But at the same time, you know, I also have a -- I'd like to think a real world understanding of why you need to be engaged in a collection of
intelligence and the CIA has always been involved in technical collection as well as human intelligence.
That part of it is also not really a surprise. So you know, I think in looking at this, and there is also this other element. There is the
element that says, look, if you just, you know, put sunlight on all of this and we have no secrets that somehow were all going to be holding hands and
singing songs.
In the real world while it will be lovely to think so, the real world doesn't operate like that and it's very hostile --
GORANI: Right. But the real world is a digital world. I mean, everyone is having to adapt to this even Jim Comey, the FBI director, had this to
say, by the way, this was a keynote address at a cyber conference. Let's listen to it and then I get your thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: The threats are too fast too big and too widespread for any of us to address them alone. The way we think about
fighting terrorism is very similar. The threats are hard to see. They are moving quickly. We need to work together to address them. That is every
bit is true when it comes to cyber threats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, he said there is no privacy essentially anymore in the U.S. and elsewhere.
BAKER: Well, you know, who's collecting lots and lots of data on U.S. citizens, Amazon, Google. I mean, so, you know, I mean, honestly, I'm not
-- I guess, you know --
GORANI: You can't exploit those two things, a spy agency, you know, essentially hacking into, I don't know, a smart TV and listening in on
conversations to Amazon collecting data on consumer behavior here, yes.
BAKER: Not to minimize this again because, you know, again, I go back to the same thing I always say, which is I'm not just saying, you just call it
the way, you had to do it in an efficient and effective manner, and you have to have checks and balances.
Again, I agree to ensure the privacy of citizens, but there are people and it says this would be a uniquely U.S. thing where we tend to think our
lives are so interesting that the U.S. government is out there to collect information purely on me.
[15:10:06]They want to do all this to watch me. Well, if you turn around and by the way, for what Director Comey said is absolutely true and we do
work. We work with our allies. We work with a variety of liaison partners in all of this.
And another aspect, if I could, not to dispute, but another aspect of this is a lot of the information about your TV being turned into a monitor,
about trying to remotely control a car, about looking at a phone number, none of that is new. This shouldn't surprise anybody just by reading open
source material.
GORANI: Quick last one there, based on your insider knowledge, I mean, how do documents like this, we are talking top secret documents that the CIA
and other intelligence agencies are sharing in order to teach agents how to hack into phones or you know, try to read encrypted messaging platform
systems like or messaging platforms like WhatsApp, and (inaudible) and Telegraph. How does something like that make it out?
BAKER: Well, that's a very, very important and interesting question, and they are looking at that right now I'm sure. Again, based on how much of
this material is just legitimate. How much was actually produced from inside the agency as opposed to what they were just collecting was hoovered
up from outside sources and gathered off as information and archival material.
But yes you're right and that's a major issue and obviously we've been talking the leak situation here in Washington for quite some time certainly
it's gained new momentum since the new administration has come in.
But it affected and impacted President Obama's administration and those before us this problem of leaks for whatever reason the person is
motivated. If they have the motivation, the access, then they typically will find a way to get information out. And now with WikiLeaks and others
it becomes more -- it's easier to disseminate it in a global community.
GORANI: Well, certainly, everybody sees it immediately all over the world at the same time. Mike Baker, former CIA officer, thanks so much for
joining us.
Now it is frightening. It's (inaudible) if you want to call it that, to say the least to think that your cell phone, laptop, television could be
spying on you, giving up our devices is not really an option.
So what can you do to protect yourself? Samuel Burke is a technology correspondent for CNN Money. He joins me now. So which one of the devices
are vulnerable because we were talking and of course, if in fact these are authentic documents that these intelligence agencies can even read some of
the messages you write on encrypted platforms and apps.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN MONEY TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Hala, to sum it up, any device that can connect to the internet in your house is vulnerable and I
have to tell you a few years ago, I used to make fun of my dad because he had a piece of tape over the camera on his laptop and I thought why,
really, what's been the need for that?
But the truth is today if you want to protect yourself from any of these devices and I have a different perspective from Jose and Mike I think
because I understand what your previous guests might be saying that they have prerogatives and they have things that they need to do at the CIA.
I'm not particularly worried about the CIA. I'm worried that if the CIA can do it, somebody else can who may have much more sinister motives and I
worry about that person, and I think really what it comes down to now, for instance, the smart TV from Samsung that is named in these documents.
You probably didn't even know it had a microphone in there. If you don't want it to work, if you want to make it so that it cannot listen, eavesdrop
on, you have to disconnect it from the internet. You can keep on watching CNN on cable we don't come through the internet to your television.
But that means you have to give up a lot of other things like Netflix and other streaming shows which we become so accustomed to as part of our site,
but that's really the only way to stop this, is disconnect it from the internet.
GORANI: So tech companies obviously unhappy about this, but on the flipside they are learning a lot about their own vulnerabilities here.
BURKE: It's interesting as you heard Jose say in the first part of your show that they're not incredibly upset from what he said Google didn't even
respond. Samsung and Microsoft said we are looking into this urgently, but they've decided it appears that they're not going to go swinging after the
government.
They're going to code against the government. They find out about these flaws and then they patch them. Take a look at what Apple said in their
statement and it sounded fairly relaxed to me.
I think they're trying to ease their customers' fears, saying, quote, "While our initial analysis indicate that many of the issues leak today
were already patched in the latest IOS, we always urge customers to download the latest IOS, the operating system, to make sure that they have
the most recent security updates.
And we've been live on the air before on this very show when we've seen huge revelations come out that governments have been able allegedly to get
into iPhones and I've always said right here on the show update it. It used to be, let's see if the update works if people have problems.
Now a days there is a security patches, update them as soon as they come out because it may stop a government from getting in your phone and
listening to you or into your television.
[15:15:02]GORANI: And in our jobs as journalists certainly there have been cases where dissidents and others who certainly don't want government
authorities into there -- and in fact even the people we interview and we serve as sources often so this is extremely important. Samuel, thanks very
much for that.
Meanwhile, we are finally getting reaction from former President Barack Obama to his successor's wiretapping accusation. Sources close to Mr.
Obama now say he was irked and exasperated by President Trump's claim on Twitter.
White House correspondent, Stephen Collinson joins me now live from Washington with that. So obviously President Obama. I mean, he's had to
put up also with the fact that Republicans are trying to repeal his signature domestic legislation and then he is accused of -- on top of that
wiretapping the Trump Tower?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. It must not that much fun to be President Obama right now sitting on the sidelines
without the capacity to answer back, if you like. I think one reason the president is particularly exasperated by these comments by Donald Trump is
that he went out of his way to provide a good transition from the Obama administration to the Trump administration.
Despite the fact that Donald Trump spent two years pursuing him over this conspiracy theory that he wasn't even born in the United States. So I
think that's one reason that Obama will be angry about this and his staff around him as well, you know, they feel that the president is trying to
adopt this traditional posture of ex-presidents of keeping out of the political arena especially, you know, not to overshadow their successor.
It is very difficult for President Obama to do that when this kind of charge is flying around which after all, if it were true, would be one of
the greatest scandals in American political history. I think we should just stress there is no evidence to support Trump's tweets that Obama
wiretapped him. But just this conspiracy flying around is something that is clearly angering the Obama camp.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much, Stephen Collinson for that update. Let's get some perspective on Mr. Trump's accusations from a man who
counseled President Richard Nixon, author, lecturer, and columnist, John Dean, joins me now from Los Angeles. What is your initial reaction or what
was your initial reaction when you saw those Trump tweets accusing Barack Obama of wiretapping Trump Tower?
JOHN DEAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO NIXON: Well, I'd already watched Mr. Trump enough to have serious doubts there is any reliability in it
because he could have easily picked up the telephone and talked to the head of the FBI, all of the intelligence agencies and find out if there is any
such intelligence.
Today, the only way to do it is to go through a legal procedure because Obama is not somebody who would have hired somebody to go out in the dead
of the night and do this sort of thing. The reference was really not of that nature either. So, you know, I understand why Obama would be
exasperated. Trump is not playing very fairly here.
GORANI: One of the things that you told the "New Yorker" that was interesting is you talked about the remarkable parallels between Richard
Nixon and Donald Trump. What did you mean by the remarkable parallels between these two presidents?
DEAN: Well, they are very similar personalities in one regard. We know Nixon's personality from behind the scenes, from his secret taping where he
was very much an authoritarian personality. Trump is very out front in his authoritarian style. But they are both identical personalities. Trump
being somewhat more authoritarian than Nixon. So that's the parallel. There are big differences too because Trump has nowhere near the knowledge,
experience, and background that Nixon did when he was president.
GORANI: But also Nixon didn't make these types of sort of wild accusations without evidence against former presidents. I mean, there is another
dimension to President Trump here.
DEAN: Well, he was a trained attorney. He'd argued cases in front of our highest court and he was -- he made his charges, his wild charges behind
closed doors. We know that because of the taping system. But he was somewhat of a shy man in public and much more reserved.
GORANI: And he didn't have Twitter.
DEAN: He did not have Twitter, no.
GORANI: What about all these leaks? Because of course, to have been the general counsel for Richard Nixon, you do a thing or two about those. But
we are seeing many, many leaks come out of this White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, what's going on do you think?
DEAN: Very predictable. I saw it coming and tweeted it long before it happened because just the nature of Trump, the fights he's been picking.
He picked them during the campaign with the entire federal bureaucracy in general and the intelligence community in particular.
So he set them up for -- for them to be leaking against his policies and his positions. He's not reached out to make any friends since he's gotten
in the oval office either.
[15:20:12]GORANI: Yes, and that's the problem if you want to get a big piece of legislation like the new healthcare act through, right, I mean,
because this isn't about signing an executive order, it's about deal making and making friends.
DEAN: Well, he claims he's not a politician that he's a businessman, well, I can't even believe a good businessman tries to act in the offensive
matter he has not only with the bureaucracy, but with the media who he needs as well to get accomplished some of the things he hopes to do. So
chaos is ruled and it looks like chaos is going to be the norm of this presidency.
GORANI: But in some ways, it is not hurting him. His approval rating actually picked up a little bit since his joint address. I have to -- I
don't remember the exact number, but I think he has a 45 percent approval rating now within the high 30 the week before the last polling came out.
So it's not like he's really, really suffering from making these statements or accusations in a way because his base appreciates it.
DEAN: Well, Richard Nixon was in office a long time before he got a negative approval rating and that's when he had to fire his chief of staff
and his top domestic advisor and his White House counsel because of Watergate and that's when the public really started paying attention to
Watergate, and then he just went on down from there.
Trump has never gotten a positive approval rating as president. He started negative and has continued down little bounce after his speech. That his
attacks on Obama are certainly not going to warm anybody's heart. Maybe a few of his base will like what he's attacking the former president.
But people don't like that sort of behavior so I don't think that's going to play in his favor and I think he's probably gotten more negatives than
positives while he has changed the story from his attorney general recusing himself because he talked with the Russians and stated in front of the
Senate.
Overall, it's not playing well and this isn't how any White House is spending so much time with these minor and really unimportant issues.
They're missing the big picture and not getting done what they are in Washington to do.
GORANI: John Dean, thanks very much, former White House counsel to President Nixon. Thank you so much for joining us.
DEAN: Pleasure.
GORANI: Still to come this evening, gunmen dressed as the very people their victims thought they could trust, doctors. A horrific attack on a
Kabul hospital next.
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[15:25:02]
GORANI: To Afghanistan now, in a horrific attack in Kabul, a group of attackers dressed as doctors assaulted a military hospital and after a six-
hour siege, more than 30 people were dead and 50 wounded. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has the latest -- Nick.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, a brazen attack that began at 9:00 this morning. This is Mohammed Daud Khan
Hospital is a stone's throw from the gates of the U.S. Embassy compound, what should be frankly one of the most secure pause of the capital.
It's absolutely at the heart of Afghan military infrastructure here, but it was at 9:00 time this morning that four men approached the southern gate,
one was a suicide bomber. They were all disguised as a medical personnel.
Another three managed to get inside and fanned out across the multistory building, we understand, horrifying pictures showing patients towering on
the balconies outside their hospital room (inaudible) escape these attackers.
Afghan commandos, landing on the roof. It was then I think that they began this awful six and a half hour task of trying to keep those attackers away
from the multitude of patients and doctors inside the hospital.
Although unfortunately it seemed by the end of the day at least 30 people lost their lives that includes doctors, patients, and medical personnel,
and 50 were injured.
The Taliban, Hala, you would normally think to point the finger out for an attack like this, brazen as it was, but instead they denied responsibility
quickly on Twitter perhaps trying to keep some distance from a brazen attack on medical infrastructure like that.
Perhaps against the laws of wars, in fact, called by the American commander in Afghanistan, General Nicholson, unspeakable crime, instead quickly
stepped forward ISIS and their remark affiliated news agency saying the quote, "Their commandos were behind this attack."
It comes at a very bad time for Afghanistan, we say that often, but this is a key summit ahead here and a time of record casualties for Afghan Security
Forces. Their military and police between January and November of last year alone lost over 6,000 men that's deaths.
Eleven thousand were injured, staggering figures and also perhaps under pins by figures too, from the U.S. inspector for Afghanistan who say that
just over half of the country is in fact controlled by the government, a third contested with the Taliban.
And the Taliban perhaps controlled about a tenth of it. These are chilling numbers indeed. The way upon the Trump White House as they try AND work
out what their next policy move should be in this America's longest war.
None of that, though, will assuage the loss of those inside Kabul today. We've thought they were safe inside this hospital, but instead found
themselves on the six hours of what appears to be an ISIS attack -- Hala.
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much. In Mosul, Iraqi forces say they are making progress in pushing into the old city. Police say more
than 130 of the ISIS militants were killed in the operation to capture a key government building there.
Meanwhile, on the east the city, and this is some good news, a treasure trove of ancient artifacts has been discovered in a tunnel dug by ISIS.
The head of antiquities in Mosul says the statues and inscriptions were found by chance presumably.
And there's been a lot of this with ISIS in the black market and the smuggling of these artifacts to raise money. Some of them, some of the
ones that were found in Mosul date back to the days of the Syrian empire. So hopefully it is a substantial find there and that many of these things
can be salvaged for future generations.
Still to come tonight, the U.S. begins putting a missile defense system in place in South Korea to confront the North increasingly aggressive
neighbor.
Meanwhile, the son of Kim Jong-Nam has emerged in a video adding to the mystery surrounding his father's death. We'll bring you that next.
[15:31:22] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. government has launched a criminal investigation after WikiLeaks published files that it says exposed
CIA hacking secrets and operation. The Web site says the documents prove that that the CIA can hack into computers, televisions, and phones to snoop
on people around the world. The federal probe will try to uncover the source of the embarrassing leak.
Sources say former U.S. president, Barack Obama, was, quote, "irked" and "exasperated" by Donald Trump's latest accusation on Twitter. President
Trump alleged Obama wiretapped his campaign headquarters without any proof, but the White House has not provided evidence to back the claim.
Britain is facing some level of economic uncertainty as Prime Minister Theresa May prepares to trigger Article 50 and begin the whole process of
leaving the European Union. Earlier, the country's chancellor set out a bright outlook while delivering his budget. Philip Hammond said the
economy had, quote, "continued to confound the commentators post-Brexit."
Phil Black has the latest.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, fundamentally, the economic news in this budget was good. You might say, surprisingly good. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer, Philip Hammond, said the growth in the British economy is so robust, it continues to confound the commentators.
That's where you get that headline figure of annual growth for the coming year being revised upward, from 1.4 to 2 percent, while borrowing is being
revised down by more than 16 billion euro. This is surprising because of the conflicts in this immediate period following Britain's decision to
divorce the European Union. The expectation was that the British economy would be stagnant at best.
Now, some commentators would tell you that the British economy is looking resilient. That's probably because the divorce proceedings haven't
officially begun. Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, knows this. And so, he has devised a budget in full expectation of there being shocks and
turbulence in the years ahead.
He's got extra cash, he's not throwing it around. So while there was spending in policy initiatives announced today, something paid for with
this unexpected money, instead, he's raising taxes specifically targeting the self-employed and those workers who structure themselves officially as
corporations.
So on the whole, a very cautious budget, one that continues to focus on deficit reduction while also keeping some extra stuffed under the mattress
in case there are some Brexity issues in the years ahead -- Hala.
GORANI: Phil, thanks very much. The United Nations Security Council now and the challenge of containing North Korea, and it's a big one. The
American ambassador to the U.N. says Washington is re-evaluating how to deal with Pyongyang. That's Nikki Haley there. And that's all following a
series of missile tests.
She says, quote, "All options are on the table," and emphasized the importance of the THAAD missile defenses being set up now in South Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Now, in terms of the THAAD and with South Korea, tell me why we wouldn't do the THAAD in
light of 24 ballistic missiles, in light of two nuclear tests, knowing that we're going to protect our allies. We are not going to leave South Korea
standing there with the threat of North Korea facing them and not help.
So THAAD is -- the reason for that is because of the actions of North Korea. We have not seen any goodwill at all coming from North Korea. I
appreciate all of my counterparts wanting to talk about talks and negotiations. We are not dealing with a rational person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:35:08] GORANI: And that's Nikki Haley, the new American ambassador to the U.N.
North Korea clearly represents a major foreign policy challenge for the Trump administration. CNN Senior Diplomatic Correspondent Michelle
Kosinski joins me now live.
Michelle, I mean, obviously, Nikki Haley is saying we're not dealing with North Korea. It's not much different really from what we saw during the
Obama administration here so far.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, yes. I thought that was an interesting thing to hear her say today. I mean, is
she saying that she believes Kim Jong-un, and the U.S. believes, that he is not sane?
We actually asked that question today in the State Department briefing, and they didn't want to get into any assessment on the individual, even though
that was clearly what she was doing. I mean, she said this is not a rational person.
But the State Department reiterated that North Korea's actions have not been rational. They haven't responded. They haven't tried to work with
other nations, including the United States, to try to minimize the threat here. They haven't tried to de-escalate the situation. So they agree
that, yes, this is not a rational situation.
So the behavior hasn't changed, even after, last year, the U.N. Security Council imposed these unprecedented sanctions on North Korea. I mean,
nations have known for a long time that sanctions haven't been working to change the behavior, and that's the goal.
So now, what we're hearing, especially now that there is a new administration in the United States, what are some alternatives? What are
other ways and other initiatives that the U.S. and other countries can take to try to make that difference?
There were supposed to be these back channel talks happening. Then came the murder of Kim Jong-un's brother in Malaysia. So that's not happening
now. That's now off the table.
What the State Department said today was that the onus is on North Korea. Basically, the ball is in their court to take significant, meaningful
action before there can be something like talks. So what are --
GORANI: Michelle Kosinski at the State Department, thanks so much for joining us.
Meanwhile, another twist in the murder of Kim Jong-nam. Michelle was alluding to it. He's the half-brother -- or I should say, he was the half-
brother of the North Korean leader.
The victim's son has now appeared in a video online. South Korean intelligence confirmed his identity to CNN. And this all comes as
Malaysia's Prime Minister directly accuses North Korea of the killing.
Ivan Watson has more from Kuala Lumpur.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nearly a month after the half-brother of North Korea's dictator was poisoned to
death in Kuala Lumpur airport, this video emerged showing the murdered man's son, Kim Han Sol.
KIM HAN SOL, SON OF KIM JONG-NAM: My name is Kim Han Sol, from North Korea, part of the Kim family. Here's my passport.
WATSON (voice-over): He is soft-spoken and matter of fact about what Malaysian officials say was the assassination of his father with VX nerve
agent.
KIM: My father has been killed a few days ago. I'm currently with my mother and my sister, and we're very grateful to --
WATSON (voice-over): The short video is censored and does not identify Kim's location. But a virtually unknown group claiming to be Cheollima
Civil Defence published this statement, expressing gratitude to the governments of the Netherlands, China, the U.S., and fourth unnamed country
for helping move Kim's family to safety. The governments named have so far declined to comment to CNN.
In this 2012 interview with Finnish T.V., Kim says he was born in Pyongyang in 1995 and educated mostly at international schools outside of North Korea
where he befriended students from countries that the North Korean regime views as enemies.
KIM: In my school in Macau where I went, we had people from, like, United States, South Korea, and these are countries that we have been having a lot
of conflicts with and a lot of tension. But then, we turned out to be really great friends in the end.
WATSON (on camera): Meanwhile, one of North Korea's few international friendships is getting stormy. Malaysian investigators want to question
three North Koreans in connection with the airport assassination. They are believed to be hiding in here, behind the walls of North Korea's embassy in
Malaysia. Relations between these once-friendly governments are rapidly deteriorating.
[15:40:03] Malaysia expelled North Korea's ambassador on Monday. Then Pyongyang announced at least 11 Malaysian citizens would not be allowed to
leave North Korea, prompting Malaysia to announce a similar travel ban on all North Koreans currently in Malaysia. And for the first time on
Wednesday, Malaysia's Prime Minister publicly accused Pyongyang of carrying out the airport assassination.
NAJIB RAZAK, PRIME MINISTER OF MALAYSIA: We didn't pick a quarrel with North Korea. It was never our intention. But when a crime has been
committed, and especially when chemical weapons are used in Malaysia, then we are duty bound to protect the interests of all Malaysians.
WATSON (voice-over): North Korea maintains it has nothing to do with this assassination. But as the investigation into this shocking murder
continues, two governments are effectively holding each other's citizens hostage.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Kuala Lumpur.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Today is international women's day. We'll take you live to one of those "Day Without a Woman" rally happening
right now. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Two fearless girls on New York's Wall Street. The statue faces the iconic stock exchange bull. Private investment company, State Street
Global Advisors -- so it's a big hedge fund -- installed it to underscore the importance of women in leadership the little super hero is celebrating.
Essentially, what you're seeing there is a statue that was commissioned by a wealthy investment firm facing the bull. And that's a young girl there
with the same pose looking at it. Happy international women's day.
We've seen marches honoring the achievements of women from Iceland to Australia today and many places in between. There's a sampling of some of
the demonstrations we saw.
Organizers in the U.S. launched a "Day Without a Woman" asking women to stop all paid and unpaid work. The strike has led some schools to close
across the United States. Critics call that a symptom of the movement elitism. They say only privileged people can participate because people
who need the money can't take the day off.
Either way, a big statement and many, many people demonstrating around the world. Kyung Lah joins us live from a rally in Los Angeles.
What are women saying around you today in L.A. at this march today, Kyung?
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What they're saying is that they feel that this is the next step. This is a continuation of the women's
march the day after the inauguration.
I want to give you a look at the crowd, Hala. It's a pretty sizeable lunchtime crowd. We are right outside city hall. The area's entirely
packed with people who's either gone absent from work, or that they have decided to take their lunch hour here. You could see a lot of red, a lot
of signs. These women saying that what they want to send a message of is the economic power of women as well as the solidarity.
[15:45:08] I want to walk you over this way because all these women that you see right here, all these women, they all work at the same agency,
Italian agency. And we've run into Jordan and Ruby.
You're lunch break, right?
RUBY KAYE, DEMONSTRATOR: We wanted to make it on time for 12:00 so we are on our lunch break, but our boss has let us have the day off, so in the
morning and in the afternoon. But they organized a bus for us to come out from the office and come here and then also provide transportation to bring
us back.
LAH: And, Jordan, why was it important for you to take this time off of work?
JORDAN MCCRAY, DEMONSTRATOR: I mean, this is a really big day for a woman of all colors, races, you know. I say women in general study us in school,
so I'm very much supportive of this kind of event. And to have my boss' support, my company's support is huge, so I wouldn't miss it.
LAH: One criticism has been that this is a bit of an elite activity because it's a lot of women who are bosses or who don't work, who can take
that time off. But you guys actually work for someone?
KAYE: Yes. That's why they say it's incredibly special for us because we have assistants literally had to ask our bosses for the day off, which in
of itself was a very difficult challenge. And we're surprised, when we did ask, for them to say, I wished you had asked sooner. Let's get a bus,
let's set it up, and go on over and have a great time.
LAH: Great. Thank you, both, very much. This is not what we're hearing from everyone. There are a lot of women here, Hala, who say that they work
for themselves or they have the ability to take a day off from work.
That is something that we keep hearing over and over again, that this movement may be out of touch. But what they counter is that any woman who
has the prosperity to show up here, they're speaking for the woman who can't -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Kyung Lah, thanks very much, in L.A. there speaking to some of the women participating in the marches.
By the way, the new first lady also marked the international women's day. She hosted a women's lunch at the White House. First daughter Ivanka Trump
and White House adviser Kellyanne Conway attended. There is Melania Trump. Members of the press were escorted out before she spoke.
If you spend much time with teenagers, you know they can cut to the heart of an issue like no other group. A single question from a young person
with no political bias can give you perspective on complex issues to adults.
Students at a school in Atlanta are harnessing that power to try to fight modern day slavery. Here's Linda Kinkade.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LINDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Atlanta, the center of America's civil rights movement in the 20th century, today home to many
victims of modern day slavery. It's the global issue these teenagers are determined to fight locally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So everyone can be volunteering, helping --
KINKADE (voice-over): Founded in 2011, this club the Atlanta International School was the idea of a couple of students who had a passion for social
justice. Now, they're stirred movement among young people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone in this entire room is going to be working with us.
KINKADE (voice-over): From bake sales to selling fair trade chocolates, these students raise funds and awareness.
KINKADE (on camera): What do students learn about modern day slavery by selling this type of chocolate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we just wanted to put the message out that fair trade, getting chocolate that's been produced ethnically without human
trafficking is so much easier than a lot of people think.
KINKADE (voice-over): Child labor and modern day slavery are just some of the issues being discussed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, question?
KINKADE (voice-over): The group meet in their lunch break every Wednesday. It's led by three students, including Kit McCarty and Emilia Castillo.
EMILIA CASTILLO, STUDENT, ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: I was really surprised at the scale of the issue.
KINKADE (on camera): As you started to learn about this, what surprised most?
CASTILLO: I think that it surprised me most that it was such a problem that hit so close to home.
KINKADE (on camera): When you speak to people your own age, how do you explain this issue? It's a pretty tough issue to talk about.
KIT MCCARTHY, STUDENT, ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: Yes, I would say the first step is to make it approachable. Labor trafficking of children is
just the most devastating part of it to me because it's everywhere.
It's in everything we do -- in our phones, in the food we eat, in the clothes we buy. And it just impacts us daily any time we purchase
something, every time we consume something, and I just didn't know.
KINKADE (voice-over): This group, now one of the most popular social clubs in school.
MASATO WEBB, STUDENT, ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: It's an issue that, in my school, I feel it gets very little male representation. And I think
it's important for both genders to be involved and to take action.
NICHOLAS GOUDIE, STUDENT, ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: I see things, like I see T-shirt, for example, and be, oh, maybe that wasn't -- maybe someone
was taken from their family and had to be forced to make that shirt rather than it being made fair trade.
KINKADE (on camera): It's not just about raising awareness and raising funds. You also lobby government. Explain how that works.
CASTILLO: We take a group of students down to the Capitol. Everyone splits up and goes to their representatives and either writes them. They
can write them notes and letters and things about why they think, you know, why this issue is so important.
[15:50:12] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
KEVIN GLASS, HEADMASTER, ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: Our task as educators is to get every single child, every single teenager on Earth
engaged in social activism to make this world a better place.
KINKADE (voice-over): Kevin Glass, Headmaster of the Atlanta International School, hopes these students will take the lessons learned here and share
that knowledge, passion, and activism as they move through college and into the workforce.
KINKADE (on camera): What do students bring to the table to tackle this issue that adults don't?
GLASS: They bring this absolute unvarnished honesty, without any veneer of political correctness.
CASTILLO: Good morning.
GLASS: You know, and they challenge us, the adults, to wake up, that this is a real issue, and we have to do something about it. Their power is
phenomenal.
KINKADE (voice-over): Lynda Kinkade, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, students like those you just heard from will lead an upcoming day of action against modern-day slavery. CNN is teaming up with
them for "My Freedom Day." It's on March 14th so not too far away now.
These students in Europe told us what freedom means to them. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: What does freedom mean to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom to me is to be able pursue my passions and dreams and to achieve what I want to do in my country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom, according to me, is an emotion. It's much more than a right or an expression.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom to me is waking up every day, not having to worry about my rights will be taken away from me. Living peacefully and
happy with my friends and family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be free is to have the power to give, to make others.
CROWD: Join us on March 14th to stop slavery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, you can answer that same question by posting a photo or a video with the hashtag, #MyFreedomDay, online. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, kids often dread eating their vegetables. But what if those vegetables came in the form of a cake? Have you ever thought of that?
It's just one of the ways chefs in Japan are remixing the way they use their ingredients. Will Ripley has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Mitsuki Moriyasu. And these are her cakes made out of salad.
Yes, you heard right. Bite in and you won't taste any sugar or, well, cake.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
RIPLEY (voice-over): This chocolate fudge is radish. This creamy icing, beetroot. Mitsuki found a way to swap out milk, sugar, and flour for super
foods.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
[15:55:05] RIPLEY (voice-over): She calls herself a food stylist. Mitsuki is part of a movement of chefs remixing how we use traditional ingredients.
But culinary creativity isn't just confined to food.
SHUZO NAGUMO, OWNER, CODE NAME MIXOLOGY EXPERIENCE: My name is Shuzo Nagumo, a mixologist.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Actually, a grand mixologist, according to his business card. A seat at the Mixology Experience, his latest cocktail den,
certainly lives up to the name.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
RIPLEY (voice-over): Those are only some of the ingredients that Nagumo harnesses to compose his cocktails, blurring the lines between the edible
and inedible, and even more so, giving his customers a chance to drink things that they would normally only ever eat.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
RIPLEY (voice-over): His signature cocktail.
NAGUMO: This is my own original press, the foie-gras vodka. The foie-gras is very quick. Most of it is chocolates. This is, OK, is a whiskey
barrel.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Arming himself well beyond your standard cocktail shaker, behind his bar, you'll find a centrifuge, depressurizing distiller,
evaporators. It's all part of Shuzo's unorthodox technique of experimental mixology. Although some things will always be off the table.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. And we are going to direct you to our Facebook page. If you'd like to visit us, facebook.com/halagoranicnn. There you can find
some of the best content from the program.
Don't go anywhere though. After a quick break, my colleague, Richard Quest, will be speaking to the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, on this
international women's day.
You'll also have a lot more on the WikiLeaks of documents they say are CIA top secret documents that detail some of the hacking techniques that the
intelligence agency, they say, uses on mobile devices.
All right. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you same time, same place tomorrow on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks for watching.
Quick break and then it's "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:59:58] RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Interesting Wednesday. Centi Group ringing the closing bell. One of the managing directors doing the honors
on a day when the market is down a third of 1 percent.
END
