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Hala Gorani Tonight
Trump Calls North Korean Dictator A "Smart Cookie"; French Presidential Election Second Round To Be Held Sunday; German Media Report Rocky May-Juncker Meeting; Aeroflot Flight Hits Severe Turbulence; Drone Pictures Show Devastation of Mosul; Macron's Marriage Fascinates Global Audience; North Korean Family Feels Pain of Defection; Trump Skips Annual Correspondents' Dinner. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 01, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:29]
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HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us on this Monday, May
1st. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
After weeks of tough talk a dramatic new overture, Donald Trump says he'd be, quote, "honored to meet with North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, if the
conditions are right."
He used that word honored and it would be quite a meeting to say the least, no sitting American president has ever held talks with a North Korean
leader directly and Kim Jong-un hasn't met with a foreign leader, period, since taking power.
The two countries have been trading threats and warnings for weeks now, and Pyongyang's latest missile tests only intensified the standoff.
Mr. Trump talked to "Bloomberg" about his willingness to meet with Kim Jong-un. He also raised eyebrows in a different interview with these
comments about Kim himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And at a young age, he was able to assume power. A lot of people I am sure tried to take
that power away. Whether it was his uncle or anybody else and he was able to do it. So obviously he is a pretty smart cookie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's get the very latest now from our White House reporter, Stephen Collinson. So what does that mean really? Does it mean that he
means that he is ready to meet with Kim Jong-Un, which would be a remarkable statement if he intends to carry this out?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Hala, I think this is the difficulty when assessing the Donald Trump presidency. We don't
really know what he means a lot of the time.
On the one hand, you could take this statement at face value and think that perhaps the president has some master plan now after, as you say, being
very vociferous in his criticism of Kim Jong-un.
Is he trying to engage him to try and woo him to try and hold out the prospect of some kind of U.S. engagement, which apparently North Korea
wants to try to calm down this escalation of the crisis?
Is Donald Trump perhaps offering a concession to China? He has put a lot of pressure on the Chinese leadership to rein in North Korea, its ally? Is
he giving mis-concession because that's something that China has said it wants to see, the U.S. and North Korea talking or on the other hand, is
Donald Trump just thinking out loud?
Is this something that is a muse as he talks to journalists? I think there is a lot of evidence that it would be the latter case. The White House has
said, look the conditions are not there for such a meeting.
And the conditions of the White House spokesman, Sean Spicer, laid out today that North Korea would have to really step back its provocations and
end its nuclear program. If that is the conditions of the talks, it does look like it's going to happen.
GORANI: Right, but that is not what the president said, though, because the president didn't expand on what conditions needed to be met for this
meeting to take place. And by the way, you mentioned Sean Spicer, let's listen to exactly how he worded it in the briefing room about an hour or so
ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is a lot of conditions that I think would have to happen with respect to its behavior, and to show
signs of good faith. Clearly the conditions are not there right now. I think that the president has made it clear as Secretary Tillerson did the
other day that if the circumstances or the conditions present themselves, we will be prepared to, but they are clearly not at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: OK. That opening down the road to this change in policy there, according to Sean Spicer, Stephen.
COLLINSON: Yes, and here is the other thing, Hala, it is almost impossible to actually envisage how talks between the president of the United States
and the president of North Korea would happen. The United States doesn't have diplomatic relations with North Korea.
That talks to the North Koreans either through allies, the Swedes or a diplomatic channel at the U.N. in New York. There is not even a peace
treaty after the 1950 to 1953 Korean War.
So just to come out and say, it might be interest in having talks down the road is very imprecise, and I think what we see Sean Spicer doing there is
something that he does a lot because of the way Donald Trump speaks with such imprecision.
[15:05:07]Spicer has to come out and make his comments seemed more acceptable and politically viable than they actually are. This is
something we've seen repeatedly throughout the campaign and now into the presidency, yet, you know, we are dealing with issues of vital national
security right now and that is what makes so serious and so confusing.
GORANI: Stephen Collinson, thanks very much in Washington. And of course, reminding our viewers the president also invited President Duterte of the
Philippines. Human rights groups said they were appalled at that invitation saying according them that President Duterte is leading a
country that is engaged in extrajudicial killings in its war against drugs, et cetera.
And that they don't believe that the president should be rolling out a new red carpet for him although President Duterte remarkably has said he can't
commit either way.
We'll have more on this story regarding North Korea with our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, a little bit later for the military angle
here so do stay tuned.
Now before we move on, we want to mention what Mr. Trump said should be topic number one, despite producing no evidence, he is still pushing his
claim that former President Barack Obama illegally tapped his phones. When a reporter pushed back during an oval office interview, this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to find out that you are the president of the United States and you said that he was sick and bad because --
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You can take it any way. You can take it any way you want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I am asking you, because you don't want fake news, I want to hear it from President Trump.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You don't have to ask me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Because I have my own opinions, you can have your opinions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I want to know your opinions you are the president of the United States.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: That is enough. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That ended that interview quite abruptly right there with our colleagues at CBS in the oval office. We will have more there on the
president a little bit later in the program.
But now speaking of president, there are two individuals in France hoping to become the next leader of France. On this May 1st, thousands marched in
the country today as the annual May Day Protests were held alongside competing political rallies with just five days until the second round of
the French presidential election.
The police were out enforce in an effort to cope with among those demonstrators, some troublemakers and some crowds even turned violent as
protesters threw petrol bombs at police.
And elsewhere the centrist candidate, Emmanuel Macron, his far right rival, Marine Le Pen, both held rallies for their supporters and both took jabs at
the other.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): The reality is simple, clear, Emmanuel Macron is just Francois Hollande who
wants to stick around and clinging on to power like a barnacle. Emmanuel Macron means it is Francois Hollande, who will continue to run politics in
this country.
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): The National Front is the anti-France party because what it stands for,
announces, and proposes is the inevitable collapse of what it is that made France. It is the opposite of our values, strengths and greatness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, two very different visions of France. Jim Bittermann, our senior international correspondent, is in Paris. So they are now really
attacking each other with five days left, Jim, every single day is crucial for each candidate.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Hala, and in fact, one of the days it's going to be most crucial where they will
have the best chance at socking at each other is on Wednesday night when they have a face to face debate and both sides seemed to be looking forward
to that.
Although I must say that Macron is ahead of all of the polls is the one who has the most to lose in that debate. Nonetheless, they will go at each
other, we will see how that turns out.
But today was a day when they were trying to energize their bases, no question about it. They gave stump speeches, the kinds of things they
issued and talked about and nothing new in them, and the kinds of things that has been talking about throughout the campaign.
They have done it in front of thousands of their supporters and I think that was the idea was to get them motivated for what is coming up next,
which is the final call, the election on Sunday.
GORANI: It is not just their supporters obviously, but it is the undecided voters or perhaps the voters who feel like, well, the polls indicate Macron
is sure to win, I don't even have to bother voting. You could see voter apathy and that is a possibility, right?
BITTERMANN: That is a possibility that would tend to favor Marine Le Pen because her voters are supposedly more energized and if there is a low
turnout, they are the ones who will be the ones turning out the most, and whether or not that will happen or not I don't know.
But the fact is that the French public seemed to be disappointed with both of these candidates. Last week, they had a poll that seemed to indicate
that 42 percent of the French don't believe either one of these candidates can unite the country.
GORANI: And that is an issue that is potentially for Emmanuel macron, because even before the first round, his supporters, a big percentage of
his supporters said that they could still change their minds.
[15:10:11]Then you have those who voted for Francois Fillon. He has to count on a lot of those voters who supported other candidates to rally
behind him because they would want to block Marine Le Pen.
BITTERMANN: Exactly. And the other issue here is that next weekend when the final vote is taken, it is a holiday weekend, a three-day holiday
weekend here in France. And some French may stay away from the poll, because they are off on the holiday somewhere so that's another factor that
could play in here.
Just to go back to what happened today with those demonstration, that is another thing that tends to favor Le Pen, because the fact is any security
issue between now and the election, and the demonstrations today but anything else that should happen now over the next few days involving
security tends to favor her.
Because she is strong on the law and order, at least, perceived to be strong on the law and order and will work against Macron. So there's a lot
of hiccups here that could enter into the last few days of the campaign -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes, and she even tweeted about the demonstrations today. Thanks very much, Jim Bittermann, as always live in Paris.
As we mentioned Macron has a substantial lead according to the polls, but Marine Le Pen is making some small incremental gains on the frontrunner,
and that has to make people in his team nervous.
Thierry Arnaud is the chief political correspondent for BFMTV, and he joins us from a Macron rally -- are you in Paris?
I am in Paris. He held a meeting here a few moments ago, yes.
GORANI: OK, so let me ask you this, is there any nervousness -- there was -- one of the polling companies put Macron under 60 percent, 59 to 41, 59
for Macron, 41 for Le Pen. Is there some nervousness in his camp?
THIERRY ARNAUD, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, BFMTV: There is a bit, yes. The polls have not been moving much. It is still a 60/40 percent
proposition, but for all the reasons you discussed she's been the stronger campaigner so far. When there is chaos in the streets such as today, it
helps her to some extent.
There is doubt that the turnout as well might be a lower than expected. All that plays in her favor. Not to the extent that she has a very good or
strong shot to winning at this point.
But if he were to win by a very narrow margin, the rest of the equation for him, and the first few days of his presidency would be very complicated.
GORANI: Yes, certainly, because he has to build a cabinet, appoint a prime minister and especially get some sort of coalition in parliament down the
road in June.
But let's talk a little bit about his strategy today. He is five days away, this election is his to lose, what is he doing to try to secure this
victory on Sunday?
ARNAUD: Well, he is trying to do a number of things, which are quite interesting in the speech, the first one is fighting back because he's been
on the attack. He's been playing defense to a large extent, and we heard the language earlier on in the program, and the words on this side were as
strong as hers, which was not always the case.
The second message he had today was quite interesting in my opinion, he tried to talk to those he knows are going to go out and maybe vote for him
on Sunday not because they like him, and not because they support his platform, but because they think that anything basically is better than
Marine Le Pen.
So he made it clear that he understood that motivation, that he would be listening to these people as well, and he would be their president as well.
It was very critical of her position on the euro and Europe as a whole which is interesting as well.
There is a recent development which is striking. She was very adamant that as soon as she was president, she would negotiate for six months, and
basically would have a referendum, and basically, the chances where we would go out of the European Union and the euro as a currency.
Now she is saying she is going to take her time, and negotiate, and wait for the German election, and the Italian election --
GORANI: She is trying to reach out to more centrist voters clearly who might be concerned and frightened by the idea of a crash out of the euro.
ARNAUD: That is exactly right, Hala. But it also makes her case a little less strong and more difficult to understand, what does she want? Does she
want France to be in, out? It is not the as clear today as it was a few days ago.
GORANI: All right.
ARNAUD: The other thing that is quite interesting in Macron at the end of his speech is that he tried to correct his image as a basically somebody
who would support the savage free for all globalization, and say that perhaps he was ready to discuss the free trade agreement with Canada and
try to renegotiate that.
[15:15:05]GORANI: Yes, this has been a big narrative for Le Pen, this globalization, and it's about commercial interest not about you, the French
individual. She has been hammering it all day as well. Thierry Arnaud, thanks so much as always. See you soon hopefully in the next few days.
Still to come tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI (voice-over): It seems every building, every street, every car is shattered. Nothing left to support human life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Exclusive new drone footage from Western Mosul where the battle with ISIS has left the city in ruins.
Also passengers thrown to the floor, blood on overhead bins. I am having secondary heart palpitations looking at this. Extreme turbulence that hit
a Russian jet. We will have that story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, it didn't sound like a very pleasant divorce dinner, but Theresa May is today dismissing harsh details leaked in the German media
about her Brexit negotiations. You will remember this meeting between the British prime minister and the European Commission president on Wednesday.
The Frankfurter (inaudible) reports that Jean Claude Juncker said that he left that meeting, quote, "Ten times more skeptical than when the meeting
started."
The report also says Juncker told German Chancellor Angela Merkel that Theresa May was living in another galaxy. Take a listen to what Mrs. May
called this German report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I have to say of what I have seen from this account, I think it is Brussels' gossip and looking at what the
European Commission themselves said immediately after the dinner took place, which was that the talks have been constructive. But it also shows
that actually these negotiations are at times going to be tough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: One meeting, two narratives, he said/she said. CNN correspondent, Erin McLaughlin, joins me here in London. So Erin, there are two very
different versions of what happened at 10 Downing Street on Wednesday.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is worth pointing out first that publicly at least President Juncker has said that the dinner was
constructive, excellent even, but we are getting a very different picture from this German media report of a dramatic dinner that was fraught with
tension.
At one point, according to this report, President Juncker pulling out two piles of paper. One pile of paper he said represented the E.U. of Croatia
entry deal. The other pile represented the E.U. and Canada free trade deal.
And the point of this illustration was to show the Prime Minister May just how complex the Brexit negotiations are going to be, and according to this
report through the course of the dinner, divisions really became apparent on a number of issues.
[15:20:00]On the issue of the ex-pats, Theresa May saying that she believes that a deal could be reached by the end of June. President Juncker saying
that was too optimistic given the complexities of the issue.
But perhaps most worryingly the division on money, Prime Minister May saying that according to the E.U. treaty, the U.K. owes the E.U. absolutely
nothing.
GORANI: And the E.U. has a very different take on that?
MCLAUGHLIN: Exactly. President Juncker in the past saying that the U.K. owes some 60 billion euros in commitments. So the question really being
out of this dinner, how can these two sides reach a compromise given that negotiations are happening next week?
GORANI: And also what I found interesting according to this article, and by the way, we'll be speaking to the foreign editor who actually penned
that piece, Juncker called Merkel, according to this, saying May lives in another galaxy and then when Angela Merkel, the German chancellor addressed
politicians in Berlin she added, some in Britain still have illusions in reference to Theresa May.
MCLAUGHLIN: That's right. But at the same time, I was speaking to a one E.U. official over the weekend who told me they are waiting to see what the
U.K. has to say once it sits down at the negotiating table. Anything according to the source that Theresa May has to say now, has to be taken in
the context of the general election. At the same time, the sense I'm getting is that E.U. officials are very concerned about the British
government setting realistic expectations required to compromise with the British people.
HOWELL: And also it is important to underline the fact that this are leaks coming from the E.U. side. OK, we have not -- we don't have sort of
sources from the British side inside those talks, talking to papers as far as we know yet?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, the issue of transparency also came up according to this report, during the course of this dinner, Theresa May wanting the
negotiations to be confidential until the end. President Juncker wanting documents to be publish. So we are seeing here on that issue division as
well, but as we know the E.U. needs to leak perhaps the U.K. needs to get used to these kinds of leaks going on.
GORANI: Yes, we will have a general sense of what goes on in thes meetings when they happen or shortly after they happen. Are you a nervous flier?
MCLAUGHLIN: A little, I have to say.
GORANI: So am I, I have second-hand sort of a little bit of the second- hand whiff of panic when I saw this. These were terrifying moments in the air. Passengers literally tossed around when a flight hit horrible
turbulence.
It was a Russian Aeroflot flight approaching Bangkok from Moscow. I want to show you some of these incredible images from the moment afterwards.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, you can see the people lying in the aisles and one of them frankly looking unconscious. You know, belongings and whatever was in the
carts that flight attendants were rolling up and down the aisles, all of that is strewn all over the place.
Twenty seven people were taken to the hospital with broken bone, bruises and other injuries. Aeroflot blames it on something called clear sky
turbulence. It comes about so suddenly that even the pilots are caught off guard so they won't have time to tell people to fasten their seatbelts.
Let's bring in Richard Quest, my colleague from New York, the host of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." So is there no way at all to predict this?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Not really, the latest radar won't predict clear air turbulence as we call it in the west. It is
where there is a sudden low pressure that the plane flies through which is not foreseeable, and it does not show up on the radar, and the plane just
drops.
Now, you also have different other forms of clear air turbulence, for instance, where the jet streams collide over the North Atlantic, that can
get pretty aggressive and vicious.
Coming into land, you can get clear turbulence from the heat convections coming up from the ground, or storms building up. So there are a lots of
different ways in which the aircraft can be affected. But clear air turbulence, it usually starts with a bit of a jolt, and something happens
like that.
GORANI: Yes. And the people who were so badly injured, is that because they were not simply wearing seat belts?
QUEST: This was 40 minutes before landing so there have been people going to the lavatory and imagine that this is you and this you on the plane.
Now as the plane drop, and you will hit the ceiling. That is it. Boom.
HOWELL: In this scenario, I'm the phone or your hand?
QUEST: I'm sorry?
GORANI: In this scenario, I am the phone?
[15:25:04]QUEST: Absolutely. You are the phone. You are effectively an egg in a metal bottle, and if you are not tied to the metal bottle.
GORANI: No, I get this, but people are watching and they hate turbulence and so something like this is very scary, and the idea that you can't get a
warning before it hits? What can you do? Are bigger planes, you know, the giant jumbo planes sot of a little bit less?
QUEST: No, this is a -- no, this is a 777, and what you do is to keep your seat belt fastened so that you are secured to the aircraft so that if the
aircraft drops, you will go with it. Some of the drops will feel like hundreds if not thousands of feet and it is maybe 50 to 100 feet, but the
speed of which suddenly dropping, and it is like an elevator that is suddenly drop, and you get bounced around.
The answer is one, keep the seat belt fastened even when the seat belt sign is switched off. Two, if you are walking along the aircraft, keep one hand
attached to the aircraft so at least you'll be ready to brace yourself if something happens.
Three, if you are waiting for the lavatory, and it is bumpy, hold on to something. And it seems common sense, but the one thing I will tell you
because you said that you a nervous flier, the plane -- this has no effect on the aircraft.
GORANI: Four, take the train, but listen last one, my producer tells me you like turbulence?
QUEST: Not heavy stuff like that, but if you are crossing the Pacific later at night, and the plane is just bouncing over the airwaves, it is
nice, because the way it was explained to me in a fear of flying course, is that you can think of the plane as being like a ship on water.
And in this case instead of water, you're bouncing along the air and what happens of course, is soon you get a wave and it drops. Can I get my phone
back?
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much. Thanks for explaining the physics of it to us with your phone. And we will see you, Richard, at the top of
the hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Look forward to it.
Up next, a new and rare perspective on one of the world's most brutal conflicts. We'll bring you exclusive new aerial pictures from Western
Mosul as civilians continue to flee the fighting there.
Plus a 25-year age gap is a hot topic in the French presidential election, we will explain why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: France's presidential candidates both held rallies today. Le Pen called Macron an establishment candidate and portrayed herself as a
candidate of change.
[15:30:00] For his part, Macron describes Le Pen as an extremist. Polls show Macron with a lead, though some suggest the race is tightening a bit
ahead of Sunday's vote.
And staying in France, there was a heavy security presence at the annual May Day protest. Take a look at some of the pictures. The 1st of May is
International Labor Day. You traditionally see marches taking place across the globe. In Paris, thousands of people came out for protests and rival
political rallies, and in some instances, it became a bit tense.
Donald Trump is under fire for inviting the President of the Philippines to the White House. Human rights groups are outraged pointing to allegations
that Rodrigo Duterte sanctions mass killings in his war on drugs. But the White House says it needs the Philippines' help in curbing North Korea's
nuclear program.
The Turkish government has arrested more than 2,000 people in the past week alone in a renewed crackdown on perceived opponents accused of ties to the
U.S.-based cleric that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan blames for last year's failed coup.
CNN has obtained exclusive new drone footage from western Mosul, a city caught in the crossfire of the ongoing battle between ISIS and Iraqi
forces. The aerial pictures were filmed by freelance cameraman Gabriel Chaim. They show the scale of devastation from a unique vantage point, and
I should warn you that you may find some images disturbing. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI (voice-over): A tender father-daughter moment in the most brutal of landscapes. Their home is only half standing. The city around them
obliterated.
These exclusive drone pictures obtained by CNN show the scale of destruction on the front lines of western Mosul. Neighborhoods newly freed
from ISIS by Iraqi forces. As Iraq's elite Golden Division rolls in and its armored vehicles, ISIS retreats, paying a heavy price. Bodies of its
fighters still lie where they fell.
So recently recaptured is this neighborhood that the black flag of ISIS still flutters overhead. The streets below, eerily deserted. A makeshift
roadblock from where ISIS fought only weeks ago still standing. In the video, dark smoke from burning tires and debris billows across the skyline,
desperate attempts by ISIS to hide themselves from air strikes.
Here, the camera captures an explosion thought to be a mortar hitting a building, a reminder that fighting rages on only meters away. After months
of street-to-street battle between ISIS and Iraqi forces, and pounding from coalition air strikes, the scale of devastation in this part of Mosul is
difficult to take in. In these drone images, it seems every building, every street, every car is shattered. Nothing left to support human life.
So the civilians are forced to flee clutching their children and their few belongings. Who knows what future lies before them as they join the
millions of other refugees running from this war? And for those who stay behind, picking through the splintered remains of their lives, moments of
joy still possible before they are lost again in this bleak and dusty scene.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, there you have it, scenes from western Mosul. And it's not over, obviously, because the battle for Mosul continues. ISIS still holds
key pockets in the western part of the city, so we are likely to see more images like these in the coming weeks and months.
Let's return now to that rocky meeting between the E.U.'s Jean-Claude Juncker and British Prime Minister Theresa May. A German media outlet
reports that Juncker said May was, quote, "living in another galaxy" based on her early Brexit talks. Mrs. May calls that report Brussel's gossip.
We have the foreign editor of "Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung" now to speak to that accusation by Mrs. May, Thomas Gutschker. He wrote the
article, "The Brexit Dinner." In fact, online, the headline was, Thomas, "The Disastrous Brexit Dinner." He joins me live via Skype from Bonn,
Germany.
Thomas, thanks for joining us.
THOMAS GUTSCHKER, FOREIGN EDITOR, FRANKFURTER ALLGEMEINE SONNTAGSZEITUNG: Yes, thank you.
GORANI: So Theresa May is saying this is Brussels' gossip, this article. How do you react?
GUTSCHKER: Well, it isn't. Certainly, I'm not part of the Brussel's gossip, but, you know, I would be very surprised if she confirmed a report
like this which puts her in a very negative light. And in fact, I mean, she isn't refuting of the facts that I'm reporting nor the quotes.
GORANI: She is just calling it, basically, gossip chatter.
GUTSCHKER: Yes, but gossip may be true as well.
[15:34:54] GORANI: That is correct. So let's talk a little bit, though, about how these talks are going to unfold with these leaks that we're
seeing from the E.U. side. So this is one side of the conversation, if you will, in your newspaper. If this is how they start, I mean, this could be
a very, very difficult road ahead.
GUTSCHKER: That is correct. But the question is, is it difficult because there are these leaks? I think it is the other way around, there are these
leaks because it's been so difficult Wednesday in Downing Street. And the E.U. officials who have been with Theresa May are really deeply worried,
and they are searching, I think, for channels to get their message across to the British government because it turned out, to them, that they didn't
manage to do it in person.
GORANI: And the sources you're speaking with, what worries them the most after Wednesday night's dinner?
GUTSCHKER: Clearly, they think that the Prime Minister does not have an adequate understanding of the complexity of this negotiation. That's why
Jean-Claude Juncker brought with him to 10 Downing Street both the recently concluded trade agreement with Canada and the accession treaty with
Croatia, the 28th member to join E.U., and he put it on the table.
And he said, Theresa, look, I think you are underestimating the complexity. These are issues that concern hundreds, thousands of different laws, and we
have to work out thousands of pages in order to divorce and then to find and agree to a new partnership.
GORANI: And again, the sources you're speaking with who've been informing you about what went on at that meeting, is there a feeling that these are
just opening negotiation positions? Obviously, they're wanting to make a splash with some of the more headline grabbing moments of the dinner in
order to sort of, down the line, you know, get down to the serious talk of how to come to some sort of agreement, that these leaks are happening in
order to sort of, you know, jolt the negotiation process into motion.
GUTSCHKER: I think they are really concerned because there isn't any motion right now. There are general elections in the U.K. No date has
been set to start the negotiations, and it's a race against time. I mean, you know, the notification was end of March. And in fact, yes, Brexit is
going to happen in two years, but the negotiations need to be over by fall next year, and that's a very tough time frame. And they are really
concerned that the British government is not prepared to run into a detailed negotiation.
GORANI: And the big issues, the expats, the E.U. citizens inside the U.K., whether or not the U.K. will accept the notion that it owes tens of
billions of euros to the European Union, all of those things are just one alone, one of these issues, could take years to resolve, but they're having
to do a whole host of them at once.
GUTSCHKER: Well, hopefully not years, but let's say months. And if you, you know, take the issue of citizens' rights, during this dinner, Theresa
May said, well, we can solve this problem at the E.U. council, which is end of by June.
GORANI: June, yes.
GUTSCHKER: So two weeks after the general elections. And everybody else at the table from the European side was just astonished. They were saying,
wow, how do you want to do that in two weeks? And she said, yes, well, it's easy. We're going to treat these citizens according to our own
domestic laws, and they will be treated the same way any other person from a third country is treated in Britain.
But that, of course, is the opposite from what E.U. wants. E.U. wants to preserve as much as it can of the privileges an E.U. citizen enjoys today
living in Britain and then, of course, vice versa for Britain living in Europe.
GORANI: Well, it's a tough, long, long road ahead. Thomas Gutschker, thanks very much for joining us. We really appreciate your time this
evening, with more there on this article that's really just generated headlines all over the world, including here obviously in the U.K. Thanks
for joining us from "Frankfurter Allgemeine."
Now, away from the campaign rhetoric and bitter party divisions, political upstart Emmanuel Macron has become a subject of interest for people in
France and outside of France. And perhaps no part of his life has fascinated people more than his unconventional marriage. Melissa Bell has
that side of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Their relationship has caught the attention of the world. The favorite to become the next President of
France and his wife, his former teacher.
Macron was 15 when he met Brigitte Trogneux. She was a 40-year-old married teacher at his school in northern France.
JEAN-BAPTISTE DE FROMENT, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF EMMANUEL MACRON: He was the friend, you know, of the teachers at the high school. You know, he had
dinner with them.
[15:40:06] BELL: Jean-Baptiste de Froment, an old school friend, says that Emmanuel Macron always did what was expected of him, except when it came to
Brigitte. At age 17, Macron reluctantly left Amiens but not before telling Brigitte that, one day, he would marry her. And by the time he arrived in
Paris, says Jean-Baptiste, he certainly avoided the girls of his own age.
DE FROMENT: I think they were maybe too young to be interesting for him. He needs to learn something from his lover.
BELL: And so maybe slightly older women makes more sense?
DE FROMENT: Of course. Especially if they are teachers, so.
BELL: Fourteen years after first meeting, they were married, but not before Macron asked her three children -- one of whom was his age, 29 at
the time -- for their permission.
TIPHAINE AUZIERE, DAUGHTER OF BRIGITTE MACRON (through translator): It is a powerful act because not everyone would have taken that precaution to
come and ask us for her hand in marriage. I mean, it wasn't like that, but he did want to know if this is something we could accept.
BELL: Macron says that becoming a family was an important step for him as he turned an improbable relationship into what he calls the commitment of a
lifetime. He is now 39, and she is 64, with seven grandchildren.
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): We do not have a classic family, it's undeniable. But is there less love in this
family? I do not think so. Maybe there is even more than in unconventional families.
BELL: Trogneux is now at the center of the campaign, unusual in French politics, visible but not valuable for now.
BRIGITTE MACRON, WIFE OF EMMANUEL MACRON (through translator): I'll start speaking in two months, and then I will never be quiet again.
BELL: So what kind of first lady would she be?
MACRON (through translator): She wouldn't be paid for it by taxpayers, but she certainly will have an existence. She will have her own take on
things. She will always be by my side, of course.
BELL: This is the school where it all began. An unconventional story to be sure, but one that Emmanuel Macron has used in his campaign, saying that
it shows that once his heart is set, his determination and commitment are then unwavering.
Melissa bell, CNN, in Amiens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Don't forget to check out our Facebook page, facebook.com/halagoranicnn, for more.
Still to come, from warnings and threats to a conditional offer for talks. We'll have more on Donald Trump's new overture to Kim Jong-un. We'll be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Top story. Certainly not the reaction that many people expected just days after North Korea's latest missile test. Donald Trump says he'd
be honored to meet Kim Jong-un if the conditions are right. A White House spokesperson wouldn't spell out exactly what those conditions are, but he
did say they are not in place now.
[15:45:01] Let's bring in the CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. It was a big surprise to hear Donald Trump say this because no sitting
president has ever said that they would meet with the North Korean leader in this way.
BARBRA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is very odd, and you sort of have pull apart a bit of what was said and perhaps -- perhaps -- what the
intentions of the remarks were. Later in the day, the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said those conditions, as you just said, Hala, are
not there yet. And that would be, presumably, that Kim would have to give up his nuclear and missile programs.
And you begin to see sort of the President playing both roles, the good cop and the bad cop, in some of the rhetoric and some of the language, trying
to, perhaps, encourage the North Koreans that there is a path to dialogue with the U.S., which, by all accounts, is what the North Koreans want.
They want to be recognized as this great world power, in their view. But also the bad cop role that they absolutely have to give up their weapons
and talking about the need for Kim to do that. But to say that he would be honored to meet the North Korean regime leader is a pretty unique statement
from a sitting U.S. president.
GORANI: And very briefly, the reaction of the Pentagon, I mean, because, in the end, there were many military maneuvers and moves that were, you
know, sort of put into action after the missile test by North Korea. How did that change any of that?
STARR: I don't think it changes any of it at the moment. And that's a really good point on the practical working level, if you will. The U.S.
military is still doing what it does every day. The Carl Vinson is still out there in the East Sea, the Sea of Japan, conducting maneuvers and
operations.
You have U.S. aircraft in the region. You have submarines out there. You have the 28,000 U.S. forces in Korea exercising, practicing all of the
time. None of these fundamentally changes, and that's probably the most important indicator to watch on both sides of the equation.
If there was going to be some rapport and pull back, that's not happening. If there was going to be some move towards military action, that also is
not happening. From top U.S. commanders, you see no move towards any kind of U.S. strikes.
GORANI: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thanks very much. One thing that sometimes gets lost in the reporting on North Korea are the stories of real
people. Thousands of North Koreans have managed to escape and defect to the south.
Last year, CNN's Will Ripley reported on one defector who is now in South Korea, but he says he wants to go home. The North Korean government has
allowed Will to meet this woman's family in Pyongyang.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seoul, South Korea. Tens of thousands of North Korean defectors have fled south since
the late 1990s. Kim Ryon Hui is one of the rare few who's ever asked to go back.
She came here thinking she could work for a while to earn money to pay for medical treatment and then go home. But instead, like all defectors, she
lost her North Korean passport and was made a South Korean citizen. Her old home, just a 20-minute flight away, if you could fly.
I am taken to see Kim Ryon Hui's husband and her daughter.
RIPLEY (on camera): We sent a crew in South Korea to go speak with your wife and your mom, and she recorded a video message that she wanted you to
see.
KIM RYON HUI, INADVERTENT DEFECTOR (through translator): I am so sorry. Your mother is so sorry. I am so proud and thankful to see you all grown
up, confident and bright. I really miss you. I really want to hug you.
RI RYO GUN, DAUGHTER OF KIM RYON HUI (through translator): There are times it's hard to bear. My mother wouldn't like to see me like this. She
wouldn't want her daughter to be weak.
RIPLEY (voice-over): I'm also taken to meet Kim Ryon Hui's aging parents. Her father is 75; her mother, 72.
RIPLEY (on camera): When you see her, I cannot imagine what you're thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is the first time I have seen her in six years.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Since she left, her mother has gone blind in one eye. She's losing sight in the other. She worries time is running out, that
she'll never see or hold her daughter again.
[15:50:05] They can't call. They can't e-mail. They can't even write a letter. No way to communicate.
We let her husband and daughter use my phone to send a video message back to South Korea. Ryo Gun tells her mother how she just graduated from
catering school, and now she's a chef. She hopes that someday, her mother can taste what a good cook she has become. She shows off the new
apartment. They moved in here after she left.
No matter what is happening in the outside world, this is reality for this family, and many others on the Korean Peninsula. So many families,
divided.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Will Ripley reporting there. The North Korean government made this particular family available to CNN because Kim is one of the few
defectors who says she wants to go back to North Korea. Well, obviously, that plays into the view that Pyongyang is trying to create to discourage
people from leaving.
However, tens and thousands of defectors say they never want to go back. And rights groups say families of defectors are, in fact, punished by the
government. Some are exiled from the capital to live in the countryside. Others are sent to labor camps, for instance. So this is just a view of
one particular family.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The White House Correspondents' Dinner was missing the White House component this year, namely the President, Donald Trump, who spurned the
event in favor of holding his own rally elsewhere. Now, the comedian -- it's a thankless job, believe me -- who had to deliver sort of the
monologue at that White House Correspondents' Dinner is Hasan Minhaj. He joked about Trump's bad relationship with the media. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN MINHAJ, COMEDIAN: So that's why you got to be on your A game. You got to be twice as good. You can't make any mistakes because when one of
you messes up, he blames your entire group. And now you know what it feel likes to be a minority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I think that got the most laughs. Dylan Byers was at that dinner last over the weekend. He's our senior reporter for media and politics and
he joins us from L.A.
So what was it like going to a White House Correspondents' Dinner without the American president?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS: Well, the tone was very different. It wasn't just the absence of the American president,
although that was certainly the elephant not in the room, as it was said, that night. It was also the absence of star power, you know.
So for the Obama administration, so many celebrities, athletes, supermodels, came to Washington for this dinner. It really felt like the
biggest party at least in the western hemisphere. This time, it was very much just sort of a local D.C. establishment, D.C. media event.
Look, I think the expectations for the dinner were sort of uncertain and low. But at the end of the day, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein gave
rousing speeches in defense of the free press. Certainly, the comedian, Hasan Minhaj, did an excellent job. Expectations for him were not
necessarily high.
On the whole, it was a very pleasant and enjoyable evening, at least in the 30-mile radius of Washington, D.C. Obviously, an hour away, in
Pennsylvania, the President was counter programming it with his own message attacking the media. So depending on where you were in this country, it
was a different show you got on Saturday night.
[15:55:00] GORANI: And you mentioned the elephant not in the room. That was one of the lines in Hasan Minhaj's act. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MINHAJ: We got to address the elephant that's not in the room.
(LAUGHTER)
MINHAJ: The leader of our country is not here. And that is because he lives in Moscow. As for the other guy, I think he's in Pennsylvania
because he can't take a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it. I mean, the thing is, you say that it was less of a glitzy affair, no super models and super stars and stuff, but it has
drifted over the years toward that. It wasn't designed to be that in the beginning, so maybe if you can see one silver lining here, it's that the
White House Correspondents' Dinner has somewhat gone back to its roots a little bit. Without the President, obviously.
BYERS: No, that's absolutely right. And in fact, President Trump attacked the dinner. You know, he said at his speech in Pennsylvania that a bunch
of Hollywood stars and media elites were gathering in Washington. And, of course, thanks in large part to him, that was not the case.
You know, I do think there is some benefit to that. Ultimately, this dinner is supposed to be a celebration of journalism, a celebration of the
free press, not a sort of star-studded affair. And indeed, Trump's ability to demonize the media has been in no small part aided by the appearance of
this sort of cuddling with Hollywood and with, you know, athletes and super models and things of that nature.
What I will say, you know, for me, the big takeaway is this -- Trump tried to set up this split screen between, you know, rural Americans in the Rust
Belt and this sort of cozy, elite media establishment in Washington. The truth is, for anyone willing to look, is that Trump obviously loves the
media.
He is obsessed with the media, there's no question about that. And yet he continues to go out to the country, to places all over this country, and
demonize the media. And you know, I do think that, at some point, his supporters are going have to come around and take an honest look at how he
actually feels about the media versus what he says about it.
GORANI: All right. Well, what he said at that event sounded a lot like what he was saying during the campaign. And it certainly got his
supporters excited in Pennsylvania.
BYERS: Indeed.
GORANI: Thanks very much, Dylan Byers, for more on that White House Correspondents' Dinner, without the White House part. But there were some
good jokes there and people had fun, it looks like. Thanks very much.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
