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Hala Gorani Tonight
U.K. Police Trying To Foil Abedi's Network; Libyan Militia Has Arrested Bomber's Father And Brother; Mancunians Show Solidarity In Wake Of Concert Blast; Muslim Community Speaks Out Against Terrorism; U.K. Opposition Leader Links Foreign Policy to Attacks; 28 Christians Killed in Egypt Attack; Sources: Comey Acted on Fake Russian Intel; The Unbreakable Spirit of a City Unbowed. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 26, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are coming to you live from Manchester. Thanks for being with us on this Friday
evening. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Well, it is just after 8:00 p.m. here in Manchester, a city refusing to cower to Tuesday night's horrific attack. We are seeing some life come
back, ordinary activities just a few meters from here, a game of street volleyball.
Here in the city, Mancunians, as I mentioned, out for a typically lively Friday night because it is actually unseasonably and unusually warm this
evening.
Now elsewhere, though, the threat alert is high. Police are working around the clock. Here is what we know about the investigation. It is emerged
that the suicide bombing suspect reportedly spoke with his brother in Libya 15 minutes before he attacked. Those details are coming to us from Libyan
militia which have detained Salman Abedi's brother.
Eight people remain in custody at this hour that as police raids continue across the region. Also British anti-terror police say they are making,
quote, "Enormous progress." The security minister told me that they will get to the bottom of the network.
Let's get the latest on the investigation now. Atika Shubert joins me live now from Manchester arena for that. Now let's talk a little bit about the
links emerging from Abedi and others in the Manchester community. What are the authorities -- what are you learning about what authorities are saying
about the potential for a cell or network there?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we have always heard that he was somehow known to authorities, but we weren't
exactly sure what those links were, but today, we went to a mosque in (inaudible). Now this is an area where we do know several British
nationals have been recruited by ISIS.
When we went to this mosque, we actually showed them a picture of Abedi and another man, and they said that they saw Abedi wheeling in another man, a
young man as a well from Libya in a wheelchair.
That is significant, because there is actually a man known as Abdul Abdullah who has been convicted of terror offenses specifically for
funneling fighters into Syria and for terror financing. So this is a very concrete link between Abedi and a convicted terror suspect.
He is actually currently -- Abdullah is currently serving time in prison for that. So, it is a concrete link we already see there. In addition to
that, we know of perhaps more social links.
We know in that area for example the case of the Halani twin sisters caused a stir when they ran away from home to join ISIS. They literally went to
school around the corner from where Abedi was living.
And he has been linked to (inaudible) a prolific ISIS recruiter, a British national who is believed to have been killed in a drone strike. So there
are a lot of links there for investigators to unpick, and it could take a while before they are able to roll up any sort of network.
GORANI: Well, and obviously, they are certainly hoping today that they had found, uncovered these links before the attack, so they are going to have
to backtrack quite a bit.
But I guess, the question is, and we have read about this Salman Abedi, a regular kid, going to university, he would go out to clubs, and he would
hang out with, you know, ordinary Manchurian teenagers and young 20- somethings.
Then he started to withdraw and he changed, his friends have been quoted as saying. So what does this all tell us about where he might have been
radicalized and how and by whom?
[15:05:10]SHUBERT: I think what we are seeing here, I spoke to a lot of people in the area, especially those in the Libyan community and they have
said to me, listen, we are worried about our kids that some them are doing well, and going to school, and going to prayer, but others are getting
involved with drugs, with crime, and then sometimes they swing the other way.
It is going to be vulnerable to extremists who seemed to promise them some way to get out of the life of drugs and crime. So this is the kinds of
pressures that a lot of teenagers and youth are under here.
Not just those from the Libyan community of course, but a lot of teenagers in the area. So I think that is what we are seeing here is this sort of
nexus of both a gang culture, but also an exposure to extremism.
This is apparently where Abedi fell into the gaps there. Now, who exactly was that who introduced them to this and whether or not there was any
special training involve, that is what investigators really have to find out.
GORANI: Right. It sounds like a familiar story though. Atika Shubert, thanks very much at Manchester Arena.
So how close are investigators to finally uncovering this network and wrapping it up and rolling it up as the British security minister has been
quoted as saying?
I spoke to Ben Wallace. He told me investigators were working around the clock on this and vowed to root out the terror network. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WALLACE, BRITISH SECURITY MINISTER: We are following up the network. We are trying to roll it up and contain it and get to the bottom of how big
it is and how many people are involved. We are getting to a stage where we are working through, and you have seen through the number of arrests, we
are hopefully in the right track to contain it, and make sure that people who pose a further risk are being picked up, and we are making sure that,
you know, we can hopefully get back to normal.
GORANI: But how close are you, do you think? Because there is potentially a bombmaker on the loose, because it is possible that the device was
constructed by someone with that type of sophisticated knowledge that's out there.
WALLACE: Well, I can't comment on what we know and don't know on the current investigation, it is a live ongoing investigation, and that is
going to be useful and helpful to the police who need to actually go out there and contain it.
I think the reality is that what we are doing is making sure that people are -- we can are reassure people they are going to be safe, that the
threat that was out there is dissipated because --
GORANI: Well, how can you reassure the people about that, though, if the investigation is ongoing and arrests are still being made as late as a few
hours ago?
WALLACE: Well, because in the end, you get to the bottom of the network. I'm not going to speculate how these networks were organized. They all
look different. In some cases it's been very quick for us to be able to say these people acted on their own, but in other cases, you have to work
on a principle of caution. You have to make sure you rule out things, and once you can do that, you can hopefully go back to normal and set the alert
limit back down to severe.
GORANI: But you are not ruling out that there are people on the loose, still potentially active and still plotting attacks, especially someone
that might have bomb-making knowledge?
WALLACE: Well, in this country as in the United States and many other countries, there are numerous plots. I mean, there are over 400
investigations currently ongoing by the security services and the police into -- investigations into terrorist planning or the people thinking about
terrorist planning.
You know, so that is always ongoing. The threat level has been at severe for a very long time which means an attack is likely, and you will see that
since the Westminster attack a few months ago we stop and disrupted five other attacks.
So, you know, there are people out there always planning, always unfortunately trying to challenge the values of this country, and that is
why we have to continue to pursue them.
GORANI: But specifically, with regards to this investigation, there are other people, you are working under the assumption other people are still -
-
WALLACE: I will not make any more comments on this actual investigation. You know, that is a matter for the police to talk about. They have
operational independence. It is up to them to reveal details as they see fit, where there is the government to provide them with policy and resource
and any other support across government that they need.
GORANI: And a quick question there on those leaks, the pictures that appeared in the "New York Times" that looked like they were taken in the
aftermath of the bomb attack, you've resumed cooperation, the U.K. government, with U.S. intelligence agencies now? Why did you do that?
WALLACE: Well, we sought certain assurances and we've got those assurances and it is important that we continue to work with all our partners not only
the United States, our closest ally but also our other allies across Europe to make sure that in any counterterrorism case or any parts of law
enforcement that we share information. That is how we keep ahead of these people. So we sought some assurances --
GORANI: Did you receive them?
WALLACE: We've received them and the prime minister made herself very clear, and a lot of us, the home secretary, and myself have spoken to
American counterparts to make sure they understand the importance of trust which they do, and we've given assurances, and we will carry on.
GORANI: But if there are leaks, how could you have gotten assurances from whom, and how can they guarantee that it won't happen again?
WALLACE: There are lots of ways that people can make sure that intelligence sharing and evidence sharing is kept secure.
[15:10:04]And I'm not going to go into that because to do that would expose perhaps -- make them vulnerable to other things, but as a result, we sought
assurances, and you know, the president of the United States made it clear, he thought it was very troubling and it was something that we don't want to
see, and so we have the assurances, and we will carry on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Ben Wallace, the U.K. security minister speaking to me a little bit earlier about his hope right now which is a hope that this terror
network will be completely dismantled, but saying that the progress is being made.
Now, the terror network that British police are working to contain may include the bomber's own brother who has been detained in Libya as the
militia there also has the father in custody.
Our Arwa Damon join me now from Tunis with more on the Libya connections to the investigation. So, let's talk a little bit about what the brother is
saying because we understand that he is now telling this militia that he spoke to Salman Abedi 15 minutes before he blew himself up.
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and that militia is basically an armed group that is known as the Special Deterrent Force
nominally under the control of the Ministry of Interior, but it is Libya that we are talking about after all, regardless.
According to the spokesman, Hashim said that he spoke to his brother, Salman, about 15 minutes before the attack took place and that he knew that
some sort of an attack was going to be happening, he just didn't know the specifics of when and where.
Also according to this spokesman he said that Hashim was aware that his brother, Salman, was in fact planning on returning to Manchester, and the
Libyans do believe to a certain degree that both brothers were somehow involved in plotting and planning for this attack.
Remember Salman originally told his father who had yanked both brothers from Manchester, brought them to Libya about a month before the attack took
place, because they have been wrapped up in some sort of criminal activity or a gang and the father, he says was concerned for their welfare.
Brought both brothers to Libya and then Salman told his father that he would be traveling to Saudi Arabia for the religious pilgrimage known as
(inaudible). Now the Libyans say, the spokesman says that Hashim knew all along that his brother's intention was to return to Manchester, and carry
out some sort of attack.
And according to the Libyans as well, Hashim allegedly confessed to having him and his brother being members of ISIS, but this confession, of course,
coming out under some sort of interrogation. The father is also in custody at this stage -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes. All right. Arwa Damon in Tunis, thanks very much. I want to show you what is happening behind me here. We have police officers
who've laid a wreath and flowers at this memorial at St. Anne Square, the makeshift memorial honoring the victims.
I am not sure if you can see behind the first layer or two of well-wishers, you saw the hats, the caps that police -- the Manchester police here wear.
Anyway, they were applauded by the people here.
It is still a very, very dense crowd I have to say, and we are five days after the attack, and t is a -- still feel the emotion in quite a palpable
way in this city. In this bed of flowers, it has grown quite steadily every day.
The cordon is getting wider and wider to where the end of the square, away from our camera position, and it really just shows you that Mancunians on
this Friday night, and it is a beautiful evening with warm weather coming out the pay their respects. You are seeing that in quite touching ways in
some cases.
Coming up on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, it's still another deadly attack, this time in Egypt. Find out what happened and how the president says he will
respond. Manchester has shown its spirit and the solidarity in the wake of this terror attack, we speak to a local musician and journalist about that
next. Stay with us.
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GORANI: Welcome back, everybody. It is 8:16 p.m. here in Manchester, England. These are live images of the makeshift memorial at St. Anne's
Square in the city. In the past hour, Ariana Grande has announced that she will return here for a special benefit concert.
The singer's show was, of course, the target of this week's attack. In a message on social media, Grande said that she will return as I mentioned
for that benefit concert in order to benefit the families of the victims.
All right. So, let us talk now to Tony Lloyd, a former Manchester police commissioner, former mayor as well of this city. Thank you, until very
recently, a few weeks ago.
Let me ask you first about the investigation, because people are going to be asking how it is possible that this network that seems quite extensive
and sophisticated as well flew under the radar so long?
TONY LLOYD, FORMER MANCHESTER POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, we know that some terrorists have been using more and more covert methods, and one of the
things that every society is going to have to look at is the devices that have been giving encryption to allow people to engage with each other
covertly.
And that is what makes it very, very difficult for any security sense to break down. There are real challenges around that, because of course,
freedom of the individuals, to protect against the need of the public.
GORANI: But that being said, there were members of the community that raised a red flag. I know it is difficult for the police and the
counterterrorism agencies, because there are so many potential case and it's difficult to triage each and every one of them. But in the case of
Salman Abedi, it appears as though members of the Muslim community, even his friends said this guy is dangerous.
LLOYD: It is very difficult for me to give you any real answers on that. Because of course, I don't know what information had been given to our
security services, and what is true is that the volume of the people who credible reports and arrive about is growing all the time. It's going to
cause real problems, and if you want in terms of how they have prioritized the issues, and that is true in every country --
GORANI: And is it a question of numbers? Because we know the number of police officers have been cut in this country, would you say and I know the
current conservative got would say absolutely not. You need to rely on intelligence. It is not street patrols that would change anything. Would
you say that the cut back in --
LLOYD: Well, I don't actually agree with the government on that. You know, good policing in Britain starts with community policing, and policing
within the neighborhood. That is where very ordinary police officers can learn about things that will make a real difference, whether it's organized
crime or issues around counterterrorism. So we have cut those numbers and that's not being good for the whole effort. Now I can't say to anybody
that this particular case could have been prevented have they not cut those policemen --
GORANI: At this stage no one really can.
LLOYD: We don't know. We don't know. Looking forward, one thing I'm certain of is that we've got to increase police numbers on the ground.
GORANI: But you obviously have extensive law enforcement experience in Manchester, and in city hall, what is the solution here? Because people,
it is all, I think that there is a bit of frustration as well as grief and solidarity where people are saying obviously, we are mourning the dead, and
obviously, we won't scapegoat an entire community, but we do need answers, solutions.
LLOYD: Well, I think the first thing is that you can't scapegoat an entire community, and this is criminal behavior, and violence against a number of
people. So it is dangerous to scapegoat the community, precisely, because it is that community very often that can help us to unlock the answers that
can be potentially dangerous for the future. That is important.
[15:20:13]I think that what it does mean is that if we do combat the fact that we invest money in a way that is not enough as we don't see the
community resilience in the society. We have to see the money in the different communities, yes in the schools and the mosques and throughout
our local services, but not simply policing. In the end, countering terrorism is not just for the police, but it has to be distributed across
society.
GORANI: So you think that a fair distribution and I don't know fair, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, but more money directed at certain
communities for, I don't know, very high youth employment in some area, that kind of thing would help alleviate --
LLOYD: It's something along those lines, but you know, for example, we had a problem of the gun crime in this city, maybe ten years ago had reached
some very big levels. We began to counter that not by seeing the policing as a front line, but by putting the services as being the first front line
in that battle.
And that made the difference when we built different partnerships, yes, with the police, but the police working with our local councils and
schools, and with the structures. We have to resend the terrorist.
GORANI: There is a disturbing figure coming out that hate crimes, we don't know if it is necessarily related to that arena attack, but they have
doubled from a few dozen to about double that figure. So although we've been very impressed with the solidarity, there still is that risk, isn't
there?
LLOYD: We know every time there is a major event, there is a target or that seems to emanate from a particular community has impact in terms of
hate crime, and while so I am not surprised, I am bound to condemn it. We don't accept it. One of the things that this police force, Greater
Manchester will do is to crack down on those hate criminals because we've got to keep (inaudible) our communities.
GORANI: Tony Lloyd, thanks so much for joining us on CNN. We appreciate it.
We were discussing over the last several days leaks of information and photos about this story, and they did strain the special relationship
between the U.S. and the U.K. There was even a pause in the intelligence sharing about this case.
But the Prime Minister Theresa May says she has received the necessary reassurance to reopen all channels, something the security minister told me
as well. Listen to Theresa May.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The relationship between the United Kingdom, and the United States of America has been a special relationship
now for many years, and does continue to be one. They are our most significant defense and security partner.
Yes, I did raise the issue of leaks of information that are being shared by the police with the FBI, with President Trump. He has made clear that that
was unacceptable.
The Metropolitan Police as I understand it received assurances from the FBI, and are now have restarted the process of sharing information with
them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Theresa May there speaking in Italy where she's attending a G7 Summit in Sicily. Back here in Manchester, the city center is buzzing like
many other Friday nights, but perhaps more so because the weather is delightful, unusually so I'm being told, but it has been a week like no
other for the city.
Sad obviously there has been grief, but there's also been unity and you have really felt it especially in this square. I want to bring in John
Rob, a musician and journalist who knows Manchester better than most and he is live with me now. Hi.
JOHN ROBB, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "LOUDER THAN WAR": Hi, good evening.
GORANI: Let's talk a little bit about what we are seeing now because we have covered sadly a lot of these attacks in other cities, and this is --
we are almost five days in and people are streaming into the square still?
ROBB: Yes, it's kind of emotional being here, and standing in the space. It is quite somber, and not in a heavy way, but you can feel it in the
atmosphere, because it is also like little teddy bears and that, and it is a reminder that it is children and one that is a particularly nasty attack,
and it is Manchurian and a broad cross of people, and you can understand the city is about by just looking at the crowd.
GORANI: Well, it is my first time here, so educate me on what the city is about just by looking at the crowd. What is it about Manchester that makes
it Manchester?
ROBB: Well, it is diverse, lot of different people live here and get on, people that we care about where you are from and no problems like that
here, but it is the same level in other cities. But it is a good sense of humor, and it does not like to show the emotions too much, but always
there, and it is defining itself as music and sports and another reason that is why this attack is something so personal.
GORANI: Attack against pop culture?
ROBB: Yes, pop culture.
GORANI: It's an attack against kids. It's one of the largest venues in all of Europe.
ROBB: Yes, second biggest in Europe.
[15:25:07]GORANI: Absolutely. So it was an attack against Manchester in those ways.
ROBB: Yes, we take it personally, you know, maybe the music is not our music, but it is music and a pop star for kids and still a pop star. When
you speak to anybody, they will talk to you about music very quickly, because it is a great musical history and people are proud of that musical
heritage as well. It is one of the things that really defines the city.
GORANI: And William Gallagher of Oasis, there was a spontaneous sing along of "Don't Look Back in Anger" a few days ago from just ordinary people and
well-wishers and things like that. He's holding a benefit concert?
ROBB: Yes. And Bobby Williams wrote the song, and he was a singer in the band. And yes, it is a spontaneous gig and spontaneous here, and so it is
tying up the loose ends, because it is going to give the song a meaning that it does not have anymore. And it is very easy to be angry what
happened and so in some ways anger makes it worse and worse and so it is giving off a powerful message that we have to be so strong and not get
angry about this.
GORANI: And Ariana Grande has announced she'll come back to give a benefit concert to help the families of the victims.
ROBB: Yes, beautiful thing. She has handled it so well, and it's the worst nightmares for the victims and their families. If you did a concert,
any performer feels responsible for their audience and so it is has to be awful and a nightmare for her, and the guilt thing for her, and for her to
come back is a very powerful statement. She is welcomed back, and of course, she is welcomed back.
GORANI: John Robb, thanks very much. We appreciate your time.
ROBB: OK, thanks a lot. Yes.
GORANI: Still to come this evening, take a look.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Friday prayers at Manchester central mosque, days after the attack, how the Muslim community is showing its support for the survivors.
Also as the leader of the British opposition makes controversial remarks about the war on terror, we will speak to a leading member of his party.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. British police say they are making "enormous progress," quote/unquote, in their investigation into the Manchester
bombing, but the U.K.'s top counterterrorism police officer says police still have some loose ends to tie up.
[15:30:00] Mark Rowley also says police have their hands around some of the key players, without going into more detail.
We know there are eight people in custody right now in connection with the attack. And the Security Minister, Ben Wallace, told me that more than 400
investigations into terrorist plotting are underway right now. So they have their work cut out for them at the police and as far as counter
terrorism officers are concerned.
Now, Manchester is obviously a diverse city. Most big cities are. And it is coming together in some very moving ways to support the survivors and
mourn the victims. Friday prayers at the City Central Mosque today were particularly poignant.
Muhammad Lila was there, and he joins me now. Hi, Muhammad.
MUHAMMAD LILA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi.
GORANI: So what did you witness today when you went to that central mosque?
LILA: Well, in short, I witnessed a lot of emotion. I think there was a genuine sense of sadness permeating that community, not because of a fear
of backlash or a fear of any political repercussions but genuine sadness over the attack.
You have to remember, it's only been four days since this devastating attack, and you can see the outpouring of emotion here, complete strangers,
all walks of life, coming here. And I think that was sort of reflected in this visit to this mosque, where, you know, we would talk to people, and we
would say, what was your immediate heart reaction? And I saw grown men, kind of grisly looking grown men, break down in tears.
GORANI: Why? Why, because they are afraid they'll be scapegoated? What, that they feel they'll be targeted? What is it that made them cry?
LILA: Well, you would think that that would be a reason why they would be afraid or upset, but they were actually sad at the loss that Manchester
suffered. They're particularly sad that these were young girls, teenagers, that were targeted. In fact, I spoke to one congregant there who said,
look, his daughter wanted to go to that concert.
GORANI: Of course, yes.
LILA: And he pointed out something else that you've repeated and we've all been talking about, that could have been anyone's daughter. And I think
that's the feeling that that community feels too. Of course, there are concerns about possible reprisals and maybe people feeling afraid that they
shouldn't go out, but it's still so early that that emotion, that sadness, is still very raw for that community.
GORANI: Right. They're Mancunian. They feel Mancunian first. And, I mean, they're wounded in that identity.
LILA: And that was the point that they made, you know. The imam who gave the Friday sermon referred to not just Muslims, but he referred to the
greater community, as everybody living in Manchester as their brothers and sisters.
And that's unique, you know, because any time you go to a place of worship, everybody likes to think they're special and unique and it's only them.
But he made a point of saying, look, we are part of this greater county.
And his message to the people was don't be afraid. Don't hide. Come out, be proud of who you are, and be proud of where you're from. And a lot of
these people were born and raised right here in Manchester.
GORANI: Muhammad Lila, thanks so much for that.
Now, the head of the British opposition is facing a lot of criticism for linking terror attacks against this country to the foreign policy of
Britain. The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, in the midst of an election campaign, was speaking as campaigning resumed following the week's bombing
in Manchester. Here's Diana Magnay.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Unusual scenes for unusual times. Britain's threat level at critical, the likelihood of
an attack imminent. Troops next door to heavily armed police on Britain's streets.
Election campaigning is back on. Opposition Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn relaunching his by saying the war on terror hasn't worked, that Britain
must refine its policies abroad to stop attacks back home.
JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER, LABOUR PARTY: No government can prevent every terrorist attack. If an individual is determined enough and callous
enough, sometimes they will get through. But the responsibility of government is to minimize that chance, to ensure the police have the
resources they need, that our foreign policy reduces rather than increases the threat to this country, and that at home, we never surrender the
freedoms we have won and that terrorists are so determined to take away.
IAIN DALE, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You could say it's a courageous thing to do, the first day of election campaigning, to basically say that these
attacks are at least in part down to British foreign policy. I don't think that's going to go down well with a lot of the electorate, particularly
maybe among floating voters. And the Conservatives will be relentless in the way that they attack him for saying this.
MAGNAY: And so they were. The Tory backlash hardly missed a beat.
BEN WALLACE, UNITED KINGDOM MINISTER FOR SECURITY: Not only is his timing crass and insensitive, you know, right in the middle of an investigation,
right where people are still in the hospital. And it's so cheap politics. I think I'm sort of pretty upset he doesn't seem to understand his own
history. You know, Salafist jihadism has been around way before the interventions in the Middle East.
MAGNAY (voice-over): British Home Secretary Amber Rudd, too, on the defensive already over cuts to the police force, lashing out at the Labour
leader.
AMBER RUDD, UNITED KINGDOM HOME SECRETARY: The time to debate foreign policy with Jeremy Corbyn, we can do it in the House of Commons. But to
suggest that there's any justification for the horrors that took place on Tuesday night is completely outrageous.
MAGNAY (voice-over): But will the voters find it outrageous? The latest YouGov poll for "The Times" newspaper, the first to be carried out since
the Manchester attacks, suggest the Conservative lead over Labour is shrinking.
[15:35:09] MAGNAY (on camera): That's not what Theresa May would have anticipated when she stepped outside Downing Street a month and a half ago
and called for a snap election. Then, she had a comfortable double-digit lead in the polls, reduced in large part because of social care policies in
her manifesto, dubbed the dementia tax by her opponents, which have proved massively unpopular.
She'd hoped to bolster her majority in parliament. Now, if this latest poll is anything to go by, she may even see that reduced.
Diana Magnay, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, I'm joined now by a key member of the British opposition, Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott who's in Westminster. Thanks for
joining us.
I want to get your reaction first to reducing the threat level to critical, increasing the number of military troops patrolling key landmarks and big
cities across the U.K. I've heard you be critical of that. But why, as the threat level is so high in this country?
DIANE ABBOTT, UNITED KINGDOM SHADOW HOME SECRETARY: Well, in the middle of a general election, the sooner we can be assured that the threat level
isn't critical and we don't have to have soldiers on the streets, the better. There's something not right about having to pursue a general
election campaign with armed soldiers on the street. I understand its's necessary, but it's not comfortable.
GORANI: All right. So you understand that it's necessary then, but you're saying, what, that it's being politicized in the midst of the campaign?
ABBOTT: No, I'm not saying it's being politicized. I mean, these decisions are not taken by politicians. I'm just saying that, in the
United Kingdom, in the middle of a general election campaign, to have armed soldiers on the streets is something that it's necessary but it's not
entirely comfortable. And I'm hoping, as the investigation is moving very quickly, that the threat level can eventually be lowered.
GORANI: I spoke with the Security Minister, Ben Wallace. I asked him about the leader of your party, Jeremy Corbyn, linking terrorist attacks to
Britain's foreign policy. This is what he told me. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: The day I take lectures from Jeremy Corbyn on matters of security -- you know, when I was a soldier and working in counter terrorism, there
was one man who kept voting against all the policy and the legislation that gave us the powers to deal with counter terrorism, and that was Jeremy
Corbyn.
Seventeen acts, he voted against, including the legal establishment of the security services and including the terrorist act that made it an offense
to glorify terrorism. So I don't think anyone should take either security advice or lectures from Jeremy Corbyn on what's good about keeping people
safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So Ben Wallace is saying this is crass, and that he's voted time and time and time again against laws that would help protect Britain
against terrorism. How do you react to that?
ABBOTT: Well, first of all, Ben Wallace didn't hear the speech. I heard the speech. I was there. It was a thoughtful speech about how you keep
the British people safe.
As for Jeremy Corbyn and myself, for that matter, voting against some of the terrorism legislation, we went through the lobbies on many occasions
with conservative MPs on control orders, on max days detention without trial, 42 days detention without trial, because many of us, in both
parties, felt that these things would not actually keep the British people safe. If Theresa May voted against control orders together with Jeremy,
you can hardly accuse Jeremy of being soft on terrorism.
GORANI: But clearly, the British people were not kept safe. This Manchester attack is proof of that. If your party is voted into government
and achieves the majority, what would your plan be to protect Britons from terrorist attack like the one we saw Monday?
ABBOTT: Well, first of all, we would have more police officers on the street. Under Theresa May, we are 20,000 officers short. Secondly, we
would be looking at the root causes of terrorism and looking at how we can resolve the situation in North Africa and the Middle East.
But also, we'd look at the government's Prevent Program, which is designed to counter radicalization. We think it can be improved. We think there
should be more engagement from diverse communities. So we know what we would do, and we stand ready to do it.
GORANI: But, Ms. Abbott, that Prevent Program, time and time again, it's been said it's viewed with suspicion by the Muslim community, that they see
this as a way to keep tabs on them, that this is really in no way, in fact, preventing terrorism, that it's really, in fact, sowing the seeds of ill
will among Muslim communities. Do you not agree with that?
[15:40:08] ABBOTT: That's why we want to improve it. I think the Prevent Program should work a lot more with communities, particularly women. Who
is better placed to understand that her son has moved from a football- playing teenager to a potential terrorist than their own mother?
We need to be working with women. We need to be working with communities. We need to be engaging with young people as to why they are so suspicious.
I understand the criticisms to Prevent, and that's why Labour in government would improve it.
Prevent should not be something that is done to Muslim and other communities. The Prevent Program should be something that they fully feel
part of.
GORANI: I want to get one last question to you on the polls. And I know polls have been very unreliable. Obviously, we saw it with Brexit and
other elections. But it appears as though the Tory lead is dwindling a bit. What do you put that down to, and what, then, is your hope in terms
of June 8th for your party?
ABBOTT: We always knew the polls are narrow. It's partly done to a manifesto, which has proved extremely popular, particularly the investment
we want to make in health and schools. And I believe that we are competitive in this general e election, and we are fighting it to win.
GORANI: So you think you'll achieve a majority?
ABBOTT: We are fighting this election to win. We always knew the polls would narrow, and they are narrowing.
GORANI: All right. Diane Abbott, Shadow Home Secretary, also running for re-election in her seat in Hackney, London. Thanks very much for joining
us from Westminster.
Now, I want to bring you some news just in to CNN. Greater Manchester confirm another arrest in connection with the Manchester terrorist attack.
That's according to their Twitter account. That brings the total to 11 arrests, but we have nine individuals in custody. Two were released
without charge.
We'll have more on that in a moment. We're going to post some of our interviews on our Facebook page, facebook.com/halagoranicnn. Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, we've been focused this week on terror here in the U.K., but this is far from the only community dealing with this. At least 28 people
are dead after an attack on Coptic Christians in Egypt, and state television is reporting that many of the victims were children. This is
not the first attack on Copts, obviously. It happened during Palm Sunday with a horrible death toll then. CNN's Ian Lee is following developments.
[15:44:53] IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, we're seeing the images of this deadly attack, and you can see that burnt out bus riddled with bullet
holes. We're told that 10 assailants dressed in fatigues with black masks carried it out. Over two dozen people were kill. Those injured were taken
to a Cairo hospital.
And they're traveling from Minya in the southern middle part of Egypt to St. Samuel Monastery, which is closer to Cairo. And along that dessert
road, it is quite lawless. It's isolated, which makes it easy for militants to slip into the dessert after the attack.
Police are carrying out a search, trying to look for them. President Sisi has convened an emergency session of his security council. Now, Egypt has
already been in a state of emergency since last April's attack by ISIS where two suicide bombers blew themselves up at two different churches,
killing 45 people.
Speaking to Christians after that attack, and they told me that they just don't believe the Egyptian government is doing enough to secure the
Christian community, although that is very difficult because there's believed to be roughly 9 million Christian in Egypt.
While no one has claimed responsibility for this attack, ISIS has said in the past that Egypt's Christians are their favorite prey and that they will
create a river with their blood -- Hala.
GORANI: Ian Lee, thanks very much. Now to Washington, yet another startling headline is raising eyebrows about Russia's interference in the
U.S. election.
We're now learning that a critical piece of information in the probe of Hillary Clinton's e-mails was fake Russian intelligence and that then FBI
Director James Comey knew it, but he acted on it anyway because he feared, if it became public, it would undermine the investigation and the Justice
Department itself. This fake intel claimed that then Attorney General Loretta Lynch had been compromised in the Clinton e-mail investigation.
CNN's Dana Bash has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It was because of these concerns that Comey decided to publicly declare that the Clinton probe was
over last summer without consulting then Attorney General Loretta Lynch.
Now, you may remember that earlier this week, "The Washington Post" reported on this intelligence and the doubts about its credibility. But
the fact that Comey felt that he had to act based on Russian disinformation is a stark example of how Russia interference really did impact the
decision making at the highest levels of the U.S. government during the 2016 campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Dana Bash there. Although, he is across the pond, the American President has a lot on his plate when he gets back to White House.
Host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Michael Smerconish, joins me now from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
I want to ask first about this fake intel that James Comey felt he needed to act on. How does that change things? I mean the fact that, now, it
really appears as though even fake intel that the Director of the FBI at the time knew was fake somehow had an impact on the race because of his
decision to act.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: Hala, this is a really complicated part of the story. I'll do my best. Jim Comey, when he decided he was not going
to charge Hillary Clinton, stood up in a press conference scenario and was very critical of her. You might remember when he used the words "extremely
careless" to describe her e-mail server.
In the United States, it's highly unusual that a prosecutor would say anything when determining not to proceed with an indictment. If someone's
proceeding with an indictment and making charges against an individual, then, sure, they lay out exactly why they're doing so.
And so people have long wondered, why did Jim Comey speak so expansively, so negatively about Secretary Clinton when he made that announcement? And
you've just answered the question in part. He did it because of this fake Russian intel as well as the Loretta Lynch meeting that took place in
Phoenix with Bill Clinton.
And he was worried, apparently, about the perception that if this information were released, even if it were fake, it would create the
impression that the FBI did not arrest Hillary Clinton because they were taking a dive for her. They were protecting her. And that's how it
motivated him to do what he did.
GORANI: All right. You did a great job of explaining it.
(LAUGHTER)
GORANI: I guess the question is that -- I mean, yes. I mean, it is remarkable, right? Because acting on fake intel in case it leaks and the
impression is that the FBI -- I mean, there are so many layers to this. But in the end, can we say that it hurt Hillary Clinton in this race?
SMERCONISH: Well, I think that we definitely can. I mean, I don't think there's any question, especially in the 11th hour of the campaign, when FBI
Director Comey announced that he was reopening the probe, that it was a setback to her. And polling data analyzed by Nate Silver, who is a numbers
cruncher extraordinaire, shows that she lost about three points at that time.
[15:50:06] But, Hala, I have to say this. It's easy to criticize Comey and say, that's how she lost the election. But, of course, if she hadn't used
a private e-mail server to begin with, she wouldn't have been in this mess.
GORANI: I want to ask you about Jared Kushner because when Donald Trump and his entourage return to Washington, including his son-in-law, Jared
Kushner, who's on this trip with him, they're going to have to face the news that the FBI probe looking into potential collusion between the Trump
campaign and Russia is now considering that Jared Kushner is under scrutiny.
It doesn't mean that he is a target of the investigation, but this is getting closer and closer to the very inner circle of the President,
Michael.
SMERCONISH: Well, and I think that you worded that well. I think your word choice of "under scrutiny" is deliberate and appropriate. He's not a
target. There's not any allegation of wrongdoing, but "The Washington Post" is reporting that, you know, he is being looked at.
And why is he being looked at? Because, apparently, of certain meetings that he had with Russian officials in the lead-up to the campaign and after
the campaign. Of course, what makes Jared Kushner particularly of interest to all of us is that, not only is he in a senior adviser role to the
President but he's also the son-in-law and has the trust, it seems, of the President. So you could not be more highly placed to President Trump but
for Jared Kushner.
GORANI: All right. We'll see how the White House reacts to that. Michael Smerconish joining us from Philadelphia. Thanks so much.
Now, we're no stranger here at CNN to covering the barbaric attacks like the one in Manchester. But the spirit this city has shown in the face of
the most brutal adversity is truly remarkable.
Coming up, we reflect on the courage and strength of the people here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The writer George Orwell once said Manchester is the belly and the guts of the nation. But as this emotional week draws to a close, it is
arguably its heart, from tributes played out on the streets of the city to the courage and dignity shown by those going through hell. Manchester may
have taken a blow, but its spirit it seems from what we've seen is unbreakable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLOTTE CAMPBELL, MOTHER OF MANCHESTER BOMBING VICTIM: This is such a hard time for us. I had to come. I didn't know what to do. I don't know
where to be. And in some way, we are united. We're going to be strong.
I ask you, friends, strangers, relatives to do the same. Please, stay together. And don't let this beat any of us, please. Don't let my
daughter be a victim.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That heartbreaking call for unity has not gone unheard, whether it's in a moment of silence --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love Manchester.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Manchester.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: -- to times when people have refused to be silenced. If those behind this attack were attempting to inspire terror and division, well, it
appears as though they have failed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:55:03] TONEY WALSH, POET: There's hard times again in the streets of our city. But we won't take defeat, and we don't want your pity because
this is the place where we stand strong together, with a smile on our face, Mancunians forever.
(APPLAUSE)
WALSH: Because this is the place in our hearts, in our homes. Because is the place that's a part of our bones. Because Manchester gives us such
strength from the fact that this is the place.
(APPLAUSE)
WALSH: We should give something back. Always remember. Never forget. Forever Manchester.
Choose love, Manchester. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, you just heard the end of the poem, "This is the Place" by Tony Walsh. He ended it with an image of St. Anne's Square from a few days
ago. Take a look at it now.
It has only grown. The flowers have only grown, the balloons, the stuffed animals, the pillows with the names of babies on them. This all to remind
us that the target of this attack were children, some as young as eight years old. All 22 people murdered in this week's attack have now been
named. Here are just a few of the stories we're learning from their loved ones.
Kelly Brewster, 32, described as being the happiest she'd ever been in her life. She had gone to the concert with her sister and niece who were
injured in the blast. Kelly and her partner had recently put down a deposit on a house and were thinking about a baby.
Jane Tweddle was a school receptionist who work in Blackpool. She was also a mother of three. She's described as being bubbly, kind, welcoming,
funny, and generous.
And Lisa Lees was waiting for her daughter in the foyer of Manchester Arena. And we know that was just the wrong place to be. Her murder comes
at an already heartbreaking time for her family. Lisa's father had died not long ago.
Well, we have spent a week reporting on the tragedy at Manchester Arena here on CNN and on this program. And if we have learned one thing about
Manchester, it's the people here are resilient, friendly, and welcoming. And they've made it easier for us to say, we love man che Manchester.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani.
Do stay with CNN. After a quick break, we'll have more coverage with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:59:58] RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: There you have it. Barry Manilow ringing the closing bell, celebrating "This is My Town: Songs of New
Yorker," his new album.
END
