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Hala Gorani Tonight
Clinton denies another presidential run; Poll: Congressional Republicans favored over Republicans; Few signs of improvement in devastated Puerto Rico; Outcry after journalist killed in explosion in Malta. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired October 17, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:08]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from around the world. I'm Hala Gorani. We are coming to you
live from London.
Breaking news this evening, Raqqa in Syria, the self-proclaimed capital of ISIS today is liberated. The caliphate that the group established in Iraq
and Syria is falling apart fast. It's unraveling and the reign of terror unleashed by ISIS finally appears to be losing some of its power.
U.S. backed forces say they've eradicated the extremist group from Raqqa, Syria. You can see your exclusive images coming to us from Raqqa shot by
Gabrielle Kayyem (ph) there drone pictures you are seeing, SDF, the U.S. backed forces.
You're also seeing the flag of the white PG, the Kurdish fighters floating on some of these tanks that are circling rounds around the central square.
This is the stadium where ISIS made its last stand and there are some overhead images as well coming to us from Raqqa in Syria, exclusive images
you'll see only on CNN.
You might remember some of those terrible images that came that out of Raqqa over the years of beheadings, executions, in that central square, but
what is left of Raqqa, these flags are being planted and flown over a city in utter ruin.
That is the flag of the SDF, by the way, which is composed of Kurdish and Arab fighters established a few years ago and backed by America. They were
helped as well by the white PG, which is an overall control of some parts of the SDF.
But look at as I was mentioning the destruction, absolutely breathtaking destruction of the city. Thousands, tens of thousands of people have had
to flee. Thousands more were killed not just in the fighting, but as a result of some of the airstrikes that were designed to target ISIS
fighters.
But we are covering this story from all angles this evening. Arwa Damon is in Dohuk, Iraq. Our correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh who has reported
extensively as well on the rise and fall of ISIS joins me from Moscow.
So, Nick, the big question here is how secure is this, quote/unquote, "victory" in Raqqa?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I have to say those images you just showed off inside the stadium and around the
central square around about there, SDF fighters celebrating (inaudible) in their tanks makes it pretty conclusive frankly. They have free reign of
areas which were really sort of symbolic stronghold.
The iconic parts of Raqqa literally (inaudible). It's been a very swift collapse it seems. The coalition for their part are saying they still
finger ISIS fighters maybe 100 or so in the ruins there.
That is obviously going to be the case. We are going to see them being a ragtag insurgency across Iraq and Syria in the months ahead. But here are
some of the startling images that drone brought us of the destruction wrecked up Raqqa in the recent fight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (voice-over): They once dubbed it execution square, but this is now where ISIS met its end. Once to public beheadings now circled slowly by
U.S. supplied Humvees. The Kurdish forces who made swift progress kicking ISIS out of Raqqa, their former self-declared capital.
The fights have been total costly destructive beyond imagination as these exclusive drone pictures filmed Monday show this is where ISIS used to plot
attacks on the West, but now made their very final last stand.
Some of its last foreign fighters likely dying in it's bombed out skeleton. ISIS late Monday lost this national hospital where a few dozen surrendered.
The civilian human shields they held there also rescued.
This is a place where so much smoke fills the horizon. Hospitals have not really been hospitals for months. Those who have emerged, these some of
the hundreds who fled or have their exit negotiated speak of the unspeakable.
I came out of hell, she said, (inaudible) from hell I came out right from under fire. Some perhaps ISIS families. These two women scared still to
even get out of their vehicle. We may never know how many died in the intense coalition bombardments to drive ISIS out, but some who lived self-
abandoned.
The situation is very bad, he says, you were late helping us, but may God give you strength. Now you have helped. The U.S. backed fighters declared
major operations over here late Tuesday, the last time that ISIS' name was writ large over a major city. This is the end.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH: Now you are going to see at some stage those cells popping up mocks ruins, lots of minds amongst the wreckage too, but bear no mistake here,
Hala, this is absolutely the key moment.
[15:05:03] There will still be fighting here, of course, but no longer can ISIS claim they hold their self-declared capital of Raqqa and they've
really lost the territorial grip.
They've become a more virtual sort of virus, if you like, inspiring the range abroad to attack innocents perhaps plowing cars into them still, but
no longer is there a geography or hub where leaders could pop up from and claim responsibility, much diminished because of this, I have to say,
costly, brutal and bloody war that's been waste for years to push them back -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Nick Paton Walsh is in Moscow. Thanks very much. Let's turn our attention now to the region, Dohuk, Iraq, near the Syrian
border, where our senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, joins me now.
So, this is a decisive moment, Arwa. It is significant, obviously, but ISIS itself as a group, what remains of it? How much more damage can it
do?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in terms of territory that they control, obviously, that has been significantly
diminished. We do know that the fighting has moved now mostly towards the region of (inaudible) where some agencies on the ground are reporting that
around 10,000 civilians per day are fleeing this new intensified frontline as the SDF and other forces move in to try to root out ISIS from their last
remaining stronghold within Syria.
But as Nick had mentioned there, it's not just about forcing ISIS to physically lose territory, it's about the ISIS ideology that still
continues to thrive very well online. ISIS has been in the midst of the battles for both Raqqa and Mosul able to either directly order or inspire
attacks to take place abroad.
So, the key, of course, and moving forward is going to be in areas like Iraq and Syria trying to ensure that the framework that allowed for
entities like ISIS to emerge are eradicated.
We've seen ISIS throughout the course of its history. Remember it started as al Qaeda in Iraq back in 2004, reinvent itself and emerged stronger than
in the past. It's about eliminating those factors when it comes to the region specifically and also more broadly.
It's about eliminating the sense of isolation that some of the foreigners that have joined ISIS ranks from especially the West where feeling within
the countries where there were living at that point in time. And that arguably is perhaps even more difficult than the actual battle itself.
GORANI: Right. The causes there that led to this group reemerging as ISIS and thriving. Thankfully now, it's losing its territory, which is a good
thing. Though, we were showing these images, these drone images of Raqqa.
I mean, some parts of the city, most parts of the city look uninhabitable. Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of civilians once again
having to flee. Here again you see a humanitarian crisis in the making in yet another part of the Middle East.
DAMON: Exactly. And organizations have been morning pretty much since the beginning of the battle for Raqqa that they do not have sufficient support,
sufficient capabilities within Syria in and of itself.
A lot of the refugees, the citizens of Raqqa and other areas that are now frontlines have been put in to just a handful of camps that are quite
literally bursting at this seems without adequate medical attention, food, water, other basic necessities.
Another critical thing moving forward, when you look at those images as you just mentioned right there. The shear scope and scale of even trying to
rebuild one and how are these families going to be able to go back home and what sort of a home are they are going back to.
The children who especially in Raqqa for the last, what, four, five years now, have been living under ISIS' rule. They are subjected to ISIS' way of
life, its ideologies. Seeing those force in the streets being forced to in some cases watch either beheadings or executions happening in front of them
or playing out on massive TV screens that ISIS used to have setup at some of these squares.
Those (inaudible) previously told us these are children who have to have their mentality, their attitude towards life immediately addressed. They
are lost children to a certain degree and it is imperative as so many others have warned that they begin to try to see something else other than
violence.
It's truly other that what ISIS has taught them, a different way of life, a different alternative -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Arwa Damon is in Dahuk, Iraq. Thanks very much.
While the loss of Raqqa may indeed prove a lethal blow to the murderers of ISIS, what comes next could be desperately uncertain. Just take a look at
what's happening over in Iraq, there, Kurdish forces who were crucial in pushing back ISIS from the strategic city of Kirkuk are now being pummeled
by their former partner, the Iraqi army.
[15:10:06] Which says it has now taken the city and most importantly, all of its lucrative oil fields and refineries. The president of Iraq's
Kurdish region says he is doing whatever necessary to protect his people.
But you can imagine many Kurds were not too heartened by these images showing their flag in Kirkuk being taken down, leaving only the Iraqi one.
By the way, we saw some Iraqi soldiers posing for photos in the office of the governor of Kirkuk.
The big question is where do the Kurds go from here? One man who may have the answer is the Kurds' top diplomat, the Kurdish foreign minister, Falah
Mustafa Bakir, who is in Erbil. Thanks, sir, for joining us.
First of all, I need to ask you, is this -- are you in communication at all with any of your counterparts in Baghdad and the Iraqi government, and if
so, what are you talking about right now? What are the conversations between the two sides?
FALAH MUSTAFA BAKIR, KURDISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, thank you for having me. In fact, the events over the last couple of days are unfolding. We
have imposed a new era in dealing with Baghdad. It's unfortunate that the peaceful and democratic referendum that was carried out in the region was
met with such kind of opposition from old Baghdad neighboring countries and the international community.
Although we were very clear in communicating our message that we just wanted the people of Kurdistan region to exercise that right and also, we
said that we are ready to engage in a very peaceful and meaningful dialogue in a very serious one with Baghdad on the future of Erbil-Baghdad
relations, but also all the boundaries of the region.
Today, we have seen some arrangements between Peshmerga forces and the Iraqi army to go back to the agreement that was there in 2014 for the
forces to go back and I believe here we need a combined security mechanism between Erbil, Baghdad and the coalition forces --
GORANI: Just so I understand --
BAKIR: -- that there is an understanding between the two --
GORANI: Sorry to jump in, just so I understand have you been in touch with anyone in the Central Iraqi government about what's happening in Kirkuk?
And if so, what have you been -- what have you been discussing?
BAKIR: Well, it's unfortunate that to since the day of the referendum, Baghdad has not been ready for dialogue. We have called for dialogue. We
have called for negotiations to sit down together. We understand that we have differences.
We have issues to deal with, but Baghdad rejected to sit down and talk and dialogue. Therefore, that kind of approach, the measures that were taken,
punitive measures that were taken against the region and collectively punishing the people of the region were not helpful, but we are where we
are today.
We need to have his dialogue so that we understand what's going on and what arrangements can we have. Talk about the Constitution the same
Constitution that was violated. What would be the guarantee (inaudible) it will be met.
Therefore, I believe that international community, mainly the Security Council, to have a specific meeting of this issue because this is very
serious. It's the future of a nation, a very important issue in this part of the world.
GORANI: Got it. What is the situation on the ground? You're mentioning there have been some agreements between the Peshmerga fighters and the
Iraqi forces. What happened there? Because the Iraqi forces have taken most of the oil field, taken the airport.
They are posing for pictures in the office of the governor. I mean, they're basically saying we've taken all that matters in Kirkuk back. What
kind of agreement has been reached with the Peshmerga?
BAKIR: Well, we are supposed to be talking about the partnership, Erbil- Baghdad were supposed to be partners based on a Constitution in a federal and democratic system. Unfortunately, the partnership did not work. The
mechanism was not successful.
Therefore, we need to talk to each other as partners to see. When Baghdad talked about that in the media, we said OK, let's sit down together and see
what do you mean because we can't expect and because we expected that we don't talk to each other.
Therefore, dialogue is the best thing and for your information, today is the memory of the one year when the Peshmerga forces together with the
Iraqi Army of the coalition started the celebration where the Peshmerga forces take a leading role and key role in that oppression.
We want the whole world to remember that and we do not want our contribution in the fight against ISIS to be forgotten nor our --
GORANI: I'm just trying to understand where were going from here because I understand your grievances in the past and that there was an agreement and
that you believe this is unjust, but going forward, are Peshmerga forces going to fight for those oil fields in the territory.
[15:15:04] The Iraqi Army has not taken in Kirkuk or is that a done deal? Where are we going from here in Kirkuk?
BAKIR: Look, I don't think we ever have any intention to go into war against the Iraqi Army. We have been fighting together in eliminating
ISIS. We need to talk to each other to have dialogue so that we can have an understanding between both sides.
It's not about the oil field. It's not about the flag. It's about the future of these two nations. What kind of arrangement can we have?
GORANI: So, you want talks, are you going to get talks?
BAKIR: We need dialogue.
GORANI: I get that, but are you going to get the dialogue because what you've just told me so far that there's been no dialogue since the
independence referendum. So, do you -- is there any line of communication --
BAKIR: Well, so far there has not been a serious dialogue between Erbil and Baghdad, but today, President (inaudible), Prime Minister Abadi (ph),
President (inaudible), they all talked about dialogue between Erbil and Baghdad.
Therefore, we need guarantees so that the talks would be supervised. The talks would be serious in order to address the issues that stand there
because stability in this area and peace in this area is at risk if we do not engage in a dialogue sooner rather than later.
GORANI: Right. A dialogue, let's hope it happens. Let's hope the situation deescalates. Falah Mustafa, the Kurdish foreign minister, thanks
so much for joining us, sir. We really appreciate your time on the program this evening.
Well, America says it is not taking sides in the Iraqi Kurdish conflict, but you know who is? Iran. Fighting alongside Iraqi forces were Iranian-
trained Shia militia. Fred Pleitgen is in Tehran and has more on why that is so significant.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Kurdish forces continue to lose ground to Iraqi government troops and their
affiliated Shiite militias, the Kurdistan regional government is blaming Iran for allegedly facilitating Baghdad's advance.
This attack waged by the Iraqi government and forces associated with the headquarters of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Quds Force is in
retaliation against the people of Kurdistan, who have asked for freedom, the KRD said in a statement.
The Quds Force, the foreign operations wing of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard formed Iraqi-Shiite militias called popular mobilization units to
fight ISIS in 2014. Those groups are now also participating in the operation to seize Kirkuk and its surrounding areas from the Kurds.
(on camera): Iran is one of the most influential players in Iraq and while Tehran denies any direct involvement in the conflict between the Kurds and
the Iraqi government, they've also made clear they are on Baghdad side in this matter.
(voice-over): And Tehran has influence among Kurdish groups as well. When the co-founder of the powerful Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and former
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani (ph) was laid to rest earlier this month, Iran' foreign minister was on hand.
Only a few days later, Kasem Solimani (ph), the head of the Revolutionary Guards Quds Force was also photographed paying his respects at Talabani's
grave. The Kurdish government now accuses members of this very group of colluding with Iran to allow Iraqi government forces to easily enter
Kirkuk. An Iranian political scientist says that is possible.
MOHAMMAD MARANDI, UNIVERSITY OF TEHRAN: The Iranians have a very clear policy on Iraq. They believe that the territorial integrity of the country
must be preserved and that the Constitution must remain very much intact.
PLEITGEN: While the U.S. is merely voicing concern and President Trump says he will not take sides in the conflict between the Kurds and the Iraqi
government, Iran appears to be playing an active role trying to shape its outcome. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come this evening, President Trump meets with Greece's prime minister, a man who once called him evil. How did the two handled
that potentially awkward moment when a reporter brought that up? We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:21:25]
GORANI: Breaking news just in to CNN, the Trump administration's third attempt at a travel ban has been blocked again by a federal judge in
Hawaii. It was meant to take effect on Wednesday.
This was a travel ban that changed, that switched up the countries on the travel ban list. Certainly, Syrians were some of the ones that were the
most targeted in the severity of the band itself.
It was essentially a full travel ban on Syrians whether they had a bonafide relationship in the United States or not. Other countries would have
certainly more stringent conditions attached to any visas being issued.
But the headline and the breaking news just in the last few minutes is that a federal judge from Hawaii has blocked travel ban 3.0. We'll get more
details on this as they become available. We'll discuss this later.
Now, meanwhile, President Trump met today with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, a man who once called Trump evil. The Prime Minister took a much
different tone during the meeting, though, today and that didn't stop a reporter from asking about the comment made during last year's presidential
campaign. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In March 2016, you said that the potential for a Donald Trump presidency, quote, "I hope we will not face this evil," and I'm
wondering if after spending time with the president you have changed your mind or if you have the same.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I wish I knew that before my speech.
ALEXIS TSIPRAS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I want to confirm that our meeting that we have was very (inaudible). Not a moment
that I feel that (inaudible). I saw that there is a very firm outlook here in order to set aside any differences we may have to find the common
ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And that was Alexis Tsipras at the White House with President Trump. I'm quickly trying to remind myself of the precise exact list of
countries on the third attempt at a travel ban by the Trump administration.
Let's go to CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson, in Washington. The breaking news just in the last few minutes is that yet again a federal
judge has blocked this travel ban. What happens now?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think what's going to happen is this is going to be swiftly appealed by the administration as the
previous blocking orders on previous travel bans were and we are going to end up having this go up to the Supreme Court before much longer and leave
it up to the ultimate justices in United States to rule on this.
You'll remember that the Supreme Court was due to look at a case on the second iteration of the travel ban. But when the administration introduced
the third attempt to get this up and running, the court ruled that it was moved.
So, I think what we are going to see again is this going up through the various levels of the U.S. judicial system and the Supreme Court will
finally get its say -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes. And the Supreme Court has now nine justices tilting right. Is it likely that the Supreme Court will uphold the travel ban as a result
of how it's now composed?
COLLINSON: A lot of people who look at this issue very closely think that the third travel ban has the best chance of being ruled constitutional by
the Supreme Court, but it's very difficult to predict, although, the president was able to insert another conservative justice on the Supreme
Court.
He didn't really change the balance and it's quite close and there are swing votes on the Supreme Court so we don't know exactly how it will go
down.
[15:25:09] But at this point, the Hawaii judge ruled that it was unconstitutional because it discriminates against nationalities and
infringes the founding values of the United States. So, that's going to be the question that's up before the justices when they eventually get hold of
this.
GORANI: And I was telling our viewers that because there been two other incarnations of it. Syria, of course, has been on every single list, but
in this case, we had this latest travel ban Chad and interestingly Chad had said we are not cooperating on ISIS anymore because all of a sudden you
threw us on this travel ban with Iran, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Yemen as well as Syria, and some Venezuelan government officials and their
families.
And as you mentioned there, Hawaii was arguing that the updated ban is a continuation of Donald Trump's promise to exclude Muslims from the United
States, and I imagine that the ruling argues that adding North Korea and Venezuela doesn't not make it a ban against majority Muslim countries.
COLLINSON: That's right. And the lawyers who are prosecuting this case brought up Donald Trump rhetoric during the campaign, which they said
proved that this was supposed to be a Muslim ban all along.
And some cynics argue that notwithstanding the U.S. showdowns with North Korea and Venezuela, the fact that they were included in this ban was an
attempt to try to prove retroactively that it wasn't intended to discriminate solely against Muslims.
GORANI: Certainly, you don't have many North Korean officials traveling to the United States for their vacation this summer. So, it doesn't have much
of a tangible impact on that front.
Let's talk about Alexis Tsipras at the White House. He once called Donald Trump evil. Donald Trump did make a joke about him and said I wish I'd
known about this before the speech. What was the headline out of that news conference from the two men?
COLLINSON: That was quite an interesting moment because when the reporter raised this issue, the president grimaced and shook his head. It looked
actually that he had not heard about these comments by the Greek prime minister during the campaign.
That will be consistent perhaps with what we know that some senior officials keep unflattering news from the president as we know he's someone
who is quite conscious of any attacks on his reputation and his image.
So, that was interesting. Tsipras sort of fudged around this basically saying that the values of the United States and Greece share are rooted in
democracy and go back a long way. The president argued that he realizes he sort of recounted himself a little bit.
And he said that many world leaders were nervous about the prospect of him being president because as he said he would stop other countries taking
advantage of the United States, but he has good relations now with lots of those leaders. I think that's a statement that perhaps could be called
into question.
GORANI: Interesting that perhaps he didn't know that he'd called him that during the campaign. Thanks very much, Stephen Collinson live in
Washington.
We are less than an hour away until the end of trading on Wall Street, but investors are already marking a big milestone today. For the first time
the Dow Jones is hitting 23,000 points. It's mind-boggling actually. It's right under that right, a hair's breadth under it.
Here's how it's doing right now, financial giant, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley reporting strong earnings. Investors have also been encouraged by
Donald Trump's tax reform plans, even if they still have a long way to go and promises of deregulation, all sorts of things that are energizing the
corporate world and helping the share prices of some of those companies.
Just ahead, Hillary Clinton weighs in on rumors of another presidential run and explained unfortunate injury in the U.K. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, THE WORLD RIGHT NOW: The 2016 election disaster for Democrats, that party has been asking itself what is the future. If it
were up to US President Donald Trump, it would include Hillary Clinton running for president again.
He once again brought up his former opponent during a news conference in the Rose Garden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, I hope Hillary runs. Is she going to run? I hope - Hillary, please run again. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's at odds with you over whether or not this is disrespecting the flag. Is she right or is she wrong?
TRUMP: I think she's wrong.
Look, when they take a knee, there's plenty of time to do knees and there's plenty of times to do lots of other things. But when you take a knee - she
- well, that's why she lost the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: As for Clinton, she is not letting that rumor get out of control at all. She told the "BBC" here in the UK that running again is not in her
plans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will be supporting the Democratic Party in the elections this year, next year and
2020.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You won't run again?
CLINTON: No, I'm not going to run again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Clinton appeared on the BBC with her foot in a boot by the way. It turns out the former presidential candidate broke her toe when she was
tripped while going down a flight of stairs. She had to cancel a few interviews in London as a result.
Things are looking up slightly for Democrats, though, according to the most recent CNN poll conducted by SSRS. When asked if the election for Congress
were held today, which party would you vote for in your congressional district. Fifty-one percent of respondents said they'd vote for the
Democratic Party's candidate, while 37 percent said they would vote Republican.
Joining me now to talk about this is US Congressman Josh Gottheimer, a Democrat from New Jersey. Thanks for being with us.
The mid-terms are fast approaching in 2018. And abroad, people are asking me often. They look at the US picture. They see Donald Trump with a 34,
37 percent approval rating.
They think how are the Democrats not capitalizing on such an unpopular president. What would you answer them? What's the strategy for your party
now?
REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D), NEW JERSEY: I think our winning strategy frankly has to be on focusing on getting things done. What I hear all the
time back home, and I work for the 5th Congressional District of New Jersey, which is in northern New Jersey, what people say to me is please
sit at the table and get things done for us.
Whether that's on making sure we fix the Affordable Care Act, get tax cuts done and tax reform done, get our infrastructure, our roads and bridges
taken care of, that's mostly what they talk about.
They don't want to talk about politics and the screaming and the fighting. They want to talk about problem-solving and, truthfully, that's why we get
elected to do the work that they hire us for.
GORANI: So, there's that. But there's also a political strategy, isn't there? I mean, the Republicans control both houses of Congress, they
control the executive branch, the Supreme Court is tilting right. What do the Democrats do in about a year or so in order to try to regain a majority
and at least one of the houses?
GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think what we need to do is we keep doing our job and what's right, and I think that's in the middle. And what I think the
Republicans - where their strategy has continued to fail since they've taken over this Congress is just do things in an extreme way, right, in a
very partisan way.
On healthcare, for instance. You see them - they didn't reach out across the aisle and try to get things done. I'm hoping on tax reform, they're
going to start doing that and making sure that we all sit down at the table to move things forward.
But if you try to jam things through in a partisan way without actually reaching out, they've seen that that's not a successful strategy.
[15:35:00] GORANI: But that's what you consider the failings of the Republican Party, but what is the strategy of the Democratic Party? Even
the figurehead, who is the figurehead? I mean, those who are most known. For our viewers - I mean, obviously, the household names are all over 70
years old, whether it's Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders who is not strictly a Democrat, but on the left.
So, where is that figurehead, the younger generation taking over?
GOTTHEIMER: I think you see a lot of members who are, in our culture, has been called the problem solvers caucus. We're just half Democrats and half
Republican, and there are a lot of new members in there.
And they came to Congress like I did, with the idea that we want to try to fix things, not just scream at each other, to actually try to do something.
And I think that's what we're very focused on.
You asked about what our strategy is. Our strategy is to not just play politics, but to actually do things. And if the other side wants to play
politics and not get anything done and just gum things up in a partisan way, I think you'll see things change.
What people don't want - and I think - I don't know the people you speak to, but who I speak to say, they don't want us to just scream at each
other. They want us to do something, to get things done.
GORANI: I get that.
GOTTHEIMER: And that will accrue to us, I believe.
GORANI: Right. And what we've also seen and observed is people are sick of the establishment. We've seen it with the election of Donald Trump and
not just in the United States, but also on this side of the Atlantic.
We've seen Brexit go through. We've seen far-right parties do extremely well in some European countries.
And if I look at - obviously, you're extremely accomplished. You went to Harvard. You went to Oxford. You were a lawyer. Do you worry that being
really an embodiment of the establishment yourself that that's something that could hurt you in this new environment where people are so suspicious
of politicians who are perceived as being sort of career politicians?
GOTTHEIMER: This is my first time in elected office. I was a business guy for most of my career. And so, what I was found and what frustrated me and
why I ran was that people didn't talk to each other, right?
They weren't willing to sit at the table and accept 80 percent. They insisted on 100 percent. And, frankly, both - either side insisting on 100
percent, I think, is not a winning solution. So, I actually think the change you're talking about is people want to see us do something together
and be willing to talk to each other.
Now, there's issues out there that there's no discussion about, right? You're never going to find common ground - and I get that - but there's
plenty that we can find common ground on. And I think the change people want is they want us - they're sick and tired of the same old screaming at
each other.
So, I'm new to this. But I'll tell you what I've learned in my first months here is that people want to see something immediately and that
people are willing to work together if they talk to each other. You can't let them - yes, go ahead.
GORANI: My last one because my producer is telling me to go, but the fake news that circulated, I mean, that really according to some studies
potentially shaped the political landscape. All these just hit job stories from troll factories from Macedonia that had, some would say, had a direct
influence on public opinion and maybe even votes in the United States.
How worried are you about that just in terms of the American democratic system itself?
GOTTHEIMER: I mean, I think we should all be worried. I'm sure that if anybody looks in their Facebook feed, you see things out there that you
don't know where they're from, you can't figure out where they're sourced.
I have people call me all the time and ask me about facts in articles that I know are just made up news. That's why it's, truthfully, it's up to us
to make sure that we keep bringing the facts out. We do everything possible to keep - make sure that people understand where things really
are.
We've always faced obstacles before. This is just more obstacles and we've just got to keep working through it. And I know people are frustrated,
right? There's nobody I speak to now - everybody I speak to now is frustrated with what's going on.
It's up to us to just keep working together to get it done. We'll see if on tax reform and infrastructure and healthcare, we can do it, and that's
what I am focused on.
GORANI: All right. Josh Gottheimer, Democratic representative from New Jersey, really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us on CNN.
Among the biggest of the problems facing hurricane-hit Puerto Rico is electricity. Still, many weeks after that storm hit, 85 percent of the
island is still without power. CNN's Bill Weir asked Puerto Ricans if they're getting the aid they need. Here's what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Aside from one cluster of power line contractors working gamely in the rain, it's hard to see any signs of
improvement in the highlands, just outside of San Juan.
The roads still littered with Maria's debris are all the more treacherous with a steady tropical downpour, as weeks' worth of cleanup work can be
undone in minutes.
(on-camera): This literally just happened, within the last hour. A wall of fallen trees and pipes and cars came rushing down the hillside. And
that mudslide made life all the more difficult for the people here because it took out this bridge. This bridge had been certified as safe recently.
They had cleared this road.
[15:40:10] But now, the families that live on that side are completely cut off. They either have to hike over the mountain in this kind of weather
for food and supplies, or ford this raging river.
What was it like watching it happen, were you afraid?
(voice-over): Everything I've been struggling for all my life, all of a sudden is gone, Efrain tells me.
He restores Corvettes for a living, but now his parched trailer is tossed. A few of his cars totaled by that wall of muddy water.
He and his wife Luz have been surviving in a house without power, burning their savings on generator fuel, to keep her insulin from spoiling. Life
was stressful enough, but then their trickle of a creek brought the highest water they'd ever seen.
My son was picking up the most important things as the water was coming up, just in case we needed to leave, he says.
(on-camera): Really, really. Oh, that must have been terrifying.
(voice-over): This is the blue-collar section of upscale Guaynabo, the same municipality where President Trump tossed those paper towels, as Mayor
Angel Perez stood by.
(on-camera): How would you describe the response of FEMA?
MAYOR ANGEL PEREZ, GUAYNABO, PUERTO RICO: It's been slowly, but it's there. They have given us water, food, tarps. So, now, they have changed
a little. They're going to assign a couple persons directly to each municipality. I think that's the right direction.
WEIR: Yes.
PEREZ: So, the help is coming.
WEIR (voice-over): With over 1,000 homes in his town damaged, he says the biggest needs are tarps for shelter and drinking water. Those plumes of
fuel pouring into the creek, a reminder of the health hazards of drinking off the land.
And he expresses hopes the Army Corps of Engineers can somehow replace his bridges.
(on-camera): Now, you are brand new in this job.
PEREZ: Forty days.
WEIR: Forty days? What a baptism by fire. I know you were appointed by the governor after a scandal with the previous mayor. Tell me about the
politics. Do you wish you could scream and beg for more help from the federal government or do you have to be careful about how you ask?
PEREZ: No, we want more help. And I know from my experiences FEMA has given us a lot of help. We need more help. And as I have meetings with
other mayors, I see the desperation.
WEIR (voice-over): Off-camera, Luz tells the mayor, I voted for your party and you forgot about us. We need water.
(on-camera): Have you seen FEMA? Have you seen any aid from the federal government? They haven't brought food or water here?
No, no.
(Voice-over): Bill Weir, CNN, Guaynabo, Puerto Rico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still such a dire situation there. After the break, she was described as a one-woman WikiLeaks. On Monday, Daphne Caruana Galizia was
murdered when her car exploded. We speak to a Maltese politician who is pointing fingers. Coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:33] GORANI: Well, she had been described as a one-woman WikiLeaks uncovering corruption on the island of Malta. But on Monday, Daphne
Caruana Galizia was killed when her car exploded in the north of the country.
As Erin McLaughlin report, her son his calling it an assassination.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was Malta's best- known investigative journalist. Daphne Caruana Galizia worked to expose political corruption at the highest levels.
On Monday, minutes after she left home, her car exploded. In an emotional Facebook post, her son Matthew describes the scene.
"I'm never going to forget running around the inferno in the field," he writes, "trying to figure out a way to open the door, the horn of the car
still blaring, screaming to policemen who turned up with a single fire extinguisher to use it. They stared at me, I'm sorry there's nothing we
can do," one of them said. "I looked down and there was my mother's body parts all around me. I realized they were right. It was hopeless."
EU authorities say she was seemingly targeted.
MARGARITIS SCHINAS, CHIEF SPOKESPERSON OF THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION: The right of a journalist to investigate, ask uncomfortable and report
effectively is at the heart of our values and needs to be guaranteed at all times.
We trust now that justice will be brought even if this will not be enough to right this wrong.
MCLAUGHLIN: "POLITICO" described Caruana Galizia as "a one-woman WikiLeaks." Her popular blog running commentary was one of the country's
most influential in politics. Her reporting was the main reason Prime Minister Joseph Muscat called for early elections.
She's alleged the prime minister and his wife were linked to the Panama Paper scandal. Muscat won the elections despite her allegations.
JOSEPH MUSCAT, PRIME MINISTER OF MALTA: She was a very harsh critic of mine. I think the harshest I ever had. She has been writing about me,
against me for the past decade or so.
And we are living in a free world. That's something that we always tolerated in the sense that it's obviously her right to write these things.
It's, obviously, to see my rights to protect myself, if I feel aggrieved, in court.
MCLAUGHLIN: Now, Dutch forensic experts and FBI agents are working to bring her killer to justice. Their first clue, perhaps her last blog post.
Half an hour before the explosion, Caruana Galizia wrote, "there are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate."
Erin McLaughlin, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: My next guest had this to say on the killing. "Daphne Caruana Galizia has been killed. The rule of law has collapsed. Our democracy is
at stake. Simon Busuttil is an MP, a former Maltese opposition leader. He joins me from Valletta.
Did you know Daphne?
SIMON BUSUTTIL, FORMER MALTESE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Yes, I know her personally. And, I mean, we're pretty much on the same wavelength
politically speaking, especially when it comes to the fight against corruption.
GORANI: So, you knew her personally. I imagine - how has this impacted you personally then?
BUSUTTIL: We are devastated. I am devastated personally. My immediate family and friends and colleagues are devastated. But I would add that the
entire country is in a state of unspeakable shock. Nothing has ever happened like this before in our country. And after this, nothing will
ever be the same again.
GORANI: I wonder, did she ever speak to you about concerns. She pointed fingers at very powerful people and politicians and she uncovered
allegations of sort of money laundering and hiding money abroad and things. Did she ever say to you that she was worried about her own safety?
BUSUTTIL: No, she never said that to me personally. And it seems that she never reported that to the police in any case. What she had to say, she
always said in public in a fearless manner. And that is what made Daphne a symbol of reason of expression in our country.
And that is what made Daphne a crusader against corruption in our country. And we have lost that. We have lost a voice of truth in our country.
[15:50:09] GORANI: So, you think she was killed as retaliation for her reporting?
BUSUTTIL: I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that this was an assassination and a political assassination because she was an eminently
political figure in our country.
She spoke out fearlessly against corruption. She hit out critically, very harshly against governments and opposition, against political parties,
across the political spectrum. And no one was her friend because she was prepared to be critical of anyone.
GORANI: So, if you believe that she was murdered as retaliation for her reporting, that means you also believe that a person or people inside of
Malta assassinated a journalist to silence her? Is that your belief?
BUSUTTIL: It is too difficult and certainly too early to point fingers at anything or anyone at this stage. What I can tell you, however, that
Daphne's assassination is a consequence - it is a consequence of the total breakdown of the rule of law that has been happening systematically over
the past four years.
And there is just one person who is responsible to protect our security, to protect our rule of law, and who has failed miserably in doing so, and that
is the prime minister of this country.
GORANI: Now, speaking of the prime minister, he was on CNN earlier and he spoke specifically about the rule of law in Malta. This is what he had to
say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSCAT: There will be absolutely no impunity for anyone. This is a country where rule of law reigns supreme. And I will make sure that
justice is done and there will be absolutely no impunity for anyone, be it from any part of the political spectrum, if there is politics involved in
this or from any other sector.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, the prime minister of your country says there will be no impunity, that the rule of law will be applied. Based on what you told me
earlier, you think he's not telling the truth here?
BUSUTTIL: His words are certainly meaningless at this stage because he himself has been responsible, singularly responsible for undermining the
rule of law in our country.
I myself had, as leader of the opposition, to take the case of the Panama Papers scandal to courts, myself, because he did nothing about it because
the commissioner of police did nothing about it, because the attorney general did nothing about it, because no one did anything about it in this
country.
And I had to do it myself, finding along the way the resistance of the very person who has just spoken these meaningless words.
GORANI: So, you were, in fact, testified in a court case that was covered in the blog, in Daphne's blog as well, related to libel. And it involved
one of the aides, the spokespeople of the prime minister, didn't you?
BUSUTTIL: Indeed. This is not one of the aides. This is the chief of staff of the prime minister. This is the prime minister behind the prime
minister, who was revealed in Panama Papers to have a secret company in Panama along with the most important minister of the Muscat government.
The result of all this was that both of them are still there, both of them are still prominent in government and both have been retained.
GORANI: I was going to say, they, of course, deny wrongdoing. We know that the Prime Minister Muscat also denies wrongdoing, and that after this
came out, he was elected again to office.
But we've spoken to him and we're getting your point and your take on this as well. So, we thank you very much. We know you knew Daphne personally.
So, we're sorry as well for your loss of someone that you had personal dealings with. Thanks so much for joining us.
We'll be right back on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:6:22] GORANI: You've heard of Meals on Wheels. How about a pie in the sky? Or if you don't pies, a burrito maybe. Whatever your taste, you may
be pleased to hear that Google is out to make fast food even faster. It's really what humanity needs, isn't it?
It's testing a drone delivery service in rural Australia. Google's affiliate Project Wing has teamed up with a Mexican restaurant which can
get orders to customers at a speed of 75 miles an hour.
Amazon and Dominos have also trialed drone deliveries, but for some in the Australian countryside, there were concerns you might not anticipate if you
live in a city like us here in London.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were initially apprehensive. The main concern, I guess, was that the animals might be affected in the area, and especially
our sheep and Alpacas. So, I watched the animals when they first arrived in the Alpacas.
Were looking alert initially. Not frightened, just alert because there was new noise around. And then, on the second delivery, the drone came down,
the Alpacas didn't even lift their heads and half the sheep were just looking as if that was very straightforward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I'm not sure I want my burritos delivered at 75 miles an hour. But, anyways, sometimes you really need your food fast.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching. "Quest Means Business" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
