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Hala Gorani Tonight
U.S. President To Address Korean National Assembly; Gun Control Back In The Spotlight; At Least 17 Saudi Princes And Top Officials Detained; Welsh Assembly Member Found Dead After Suspension. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired November 07, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:36]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN London.
Tonight, the stakes couldn't be higher so why is Donald Trump suddenly toning down the rhetoric? We are alive in Seoul for that.
Also, coming up this hour, after another mass shooting in the U.S., is extreme vetting for gun owners the answer? I'll ask a Republican
congressman in Washington.
Also, is this a luxury hotel or a detention center? How the Ritz-Carlton in Riyadh is playing host for Saudi royals arrested in a corruption
investigation.
And we start with this, the American president, Donald Trump, facing the first critical test of his Asia tour in about six hours. He'll address the
entire Korean National Assembly in Seoul before heading to Beijing.
Keep in mind that Seoul is less than 200 kilometers from Pyongyang, of course, and some South Koreans are afraid the president will make the
tensed situation between the North and South even more volatile.
But so far, the president is keeping his cool. Here's Jeff Zeleny.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump called military force a last resort in confronting North Korea, but
said it could still be unnecessary one if Kim Jong-un won't back away from his nuclear ambitions.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have a nuclear submarine also positioned. We have many things happening that we hope, we
hope, fact ago step further. We hope to God we never have to use.
ZELENY: The president visiting the Korean Peninsula for the first time today standing in Seoul only 35 miles from the North Korean border. He
said sanctions appear to be starting to work. He would not say whether he supported direct diplomatic talks, which he blasted only weeks ago, as a
waste of time.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We like to play our cards a little bit close to the vest. Yes, I think we are making a lot of progress.
ZELENY: But he called on leaders around the world signaling out Russia and China to stand up to Kim Jong-un.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: He is indeed threatening millions and millions of lives so needlessly. North Korea is a worldwide threat that requires worldwide
action.
ZELENY: Standing side-by-side with South Korean President Moon, Mr. Trump took a far more measured tone, stopping well short again today of
belittling Kim Jong-un as he has repeatedly done in recent weeks back in the U.S.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.
ZELENY: Instead, the president made a show of force as he visited Camp Humphreys where thousands of American troops are based. At a briefing with
U.S. and South Korean military commanders, the president, expressing optimism, the nuclear standoff could be peacefully resolved.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: (Inaudible) it will all work out as it always works out, has to work out.
ZELENY: Mr. Trump has been critical of President Moon. Once saying South Korea's appeasement with North Korea would not work, but this visit was all
about diplomacy amid escalating tensions with the North.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I want to thank you so much for that beautiful (inaudible).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. As we said, the president keeping it cool. Ivan Watson joins me now live from Seoul with a preview of that big speech and
also not everyone in South Korea is happy that President Trump is in town.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No. There were demonstrations against President Trump with people holding up signs that
said, "No Trump, no war." Perhaps a thousand or so demonstrators, some of whom actually threw something that looked like glow stick into the
boulevard ahead of President Trump's motorcade, which were hastily removed by South Korean police.
That did not seem to hold up the motorcade or to be anything aside from kind of superficial. That said, there were also pro-Trump, pro-U.S.
demonstrators that were waving American flags and blaring the U.S. national anthem on loudspeakers.
So perhaps a little bit like in the U.S., President Trump a bit of a polarizing figure here in South Korea. Polls show that Trump is very, very
unpopular within South Korea, though, there are still high favorability ratings for the U.S. in general.
[15:05:12] Again, this is longtime ally of South Korea, and perhaps as part of why President Moon Jae-in, though, he is on a different side of the
spectrum politically from President Trump welcomed him with open arms and with the red carpet and stood alongside him and showed support for the U.S.
president.
Another possible and probable reason are the threats from North Korea across the demilitarized zone, a sixth nuclear test in September, some 22
missiles fired from February to September, all of this pushing a South Korean president, who wanted dialogue with North Korea into the arms of
more military exercises and joint military actions with the U.S. -- Hala.
GORANI: Ivan Watson live in Seoul, thanks very much for what to expect. That preview, as we mentioned, a big speech, we'll be carrying that live on
CNN.
Well, the conversation turned to Texas earlier, and so on. The question from one of the reporters because it has been floated for immigrants,
right? Extreme vetting. But what about extreme vetting for gun owners? Could it have prevented the massacre of dozens of worshipers in a Baptist
church.
Now remember, Mr. Trump, as I mentioned, has (inaudible) for vetting especially when it comes to immigration, but when it comes to firearms, he
says, guns are part of the solution. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: There would have been no difference three days ago, and you might not have had that very brave person, who happened to have a gun
or a rifle in his truck go out and shoot him and hit him and neutralize him. And I can only say this, if he did not have a gun instead of having
26 dead, you would have had hundreds more dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The president in Seoul there. By the way, we are learning disturbing new details about the gun man, the 26-year-old Devin Kelly. Our
CNN affiliate, KVIA, reports that he escaped from a mental health facility in 2012, months after he was accused of abusing his ex-wife and her child.
And Kelly like so many of these mass shooters had a history of violence and obsession over a family garage. He was arrested in 2014 for animal cruelty
after allegedly punching a dog. While in the Air Force, he spent a year in the military jail for assaulting his wife and son, and that should have
excluded him, by the way, from being able to purchase a firearm.
I want to speak and bring in Chris Stewart, a Republican member of the House of Representatives. He supports the right to bear arms under the
Second Amendment and he has said he is convinced that gun control is not the way to prevent tragedies, and he joins me now live from Capitol Hill.
Sir, thanks for being with us. So, do you agree with the president, who says extreme vetting of gun owners would make no difference, would not
prevent these massacres?
REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS STEWART (R), UTAH: Well, I do not really know what extreme vetting means. I'm not sure what they are implying by that. I
mean, we do know that if you are comparing extreme vetting of people who are trying to enter the country. Let's remember, they are not U.S.
citizens.
They do not have constitutional protective rights at that time until they become U.S. citizens. On the other hand, gun owners do have that
protective constitutional right and I think that's a difference worth mentioning.
GORANI: Yes. After Sandy Hook, that terrible massacre, you signaled that the time as a Republican member of Congress that you were open to talking
about gun control legislation. Nothing has happened on that front.
What's going on? A majority of Americans want, for instance, background checks in all cases, in all gun sales. Congress is not passing that
legislation. Why not?
STEWART: Well, you know, there's a variety of reasons and people have a variety of objections to it, and the reality is that the Congress and
whether people -- whether it's a good thing or bad thing, it really is a good thing.
We are the closest to the people and if people were actually rising up and demanding that to Congress, I believe that they would respond to that. I
think at the heart of it, it comes on this, most Americans realize that gun control isn't going to solve this problem.
I mean, look we have a very, very violent society. It is not just Texas, by the way. I mean, it breaks our hearts to be having this conversation so
soon after Las Vegas and so soon after other examples and --
GORANI: If you look at all countries who have implemented stricter gun control after massacres and their gun death rate has plummeted. Australia,
it was the (inaudible) massacre in Scotland. In Japan, they have very, very strict vetting of people, who want to buy guns and firearms. Their
gun death rates are in the single digits sometimes. So, obviously, there is a correlation there.
[15:10:03] STEWART: Well, perhaps there is. I don't think you can say obviously there is because I do not know that -- I do not know if you can
say that definitely --
GORANI: But what other conclusions can you draw?
STEWART: Well, there are other examples and let us use of this incident as an example. There was nothing that further gun control would have had an
impact on this. This would have occurred. As you indicated, he shouldn't have been able to purchase a weapon.
That military felony (inaudible) essentially a felony conviction should have precluded him from having a weapon. That failed, you know, there were
other examples, other warning signs that I think indicate failure along the way.
The fact that he was as violent as you have indicated. The fact that, apparently, he escaped from a mental facility. Those are all warning signs
further gun control would not have precluded Texas from happening. And in fact --
GORANI: What is the solution then because Americans are desperate now? Every few weeks we wake up to one of these tragedies. You are an elected
representative from the Republican Party, often associated with elected representatives, who are more friendly to the National Rifle Association,
other lobby groups, who would like gun control not to happen in any kind of significant ways. So, what is the solution?
STEWART: Well, look, if you have a solution, please tell us, because many of us are hoping to find that solution, begging to find that solution and
it's probably not one thing. I mean, in this instance, there was obviously the current law needed to be -- you know, needed to be complied with in the
sense that he was able to purchase weapons and he should not have been.
There is obviously a mental health component to this. Now, look, having said that, I want you to know I'm one of those who reflexively says no, no,
no, no, no. After Las Vegas, I think I was one of the very first to say if bump stocks that they are simulating an automatic weapon, they should be
regulated just like an automatic weapon would be.
GORANI: But nothing happened there either.
STEWART: I think it will though. I mean, it's only been a matter of weeks, and I think there is -- there is efforts in Congress that will
address that, and I would support that. But I just think it is unfair and it is unfair to the American people and frankly to the conversation around
the world to say, you know, all we got to do is pass more gun regulation, and this problem would be taken care of.
They are very simply wouldn't be. Now there are maybe some instances where it would help, but this problem is much deeper than that. I think we got
to be willing to deal with the broader problem not just focus on this one thing.
GORANI: All right. I want to ask you about the Russian investigation. Carter Page, who was a Trump advisor during the campaign appeared before
the House Intelligence Committee, your committee. He finally admitted that he did meet with top Russian officials.
He also said he mentioned a Moscow trip to the current Attorney General Jeff Sessions. You spoke to another network a few days ago and you were --
you said, if you're one of these people dreaming that POTUS is going to be impeached for collusion, keep dreaming. Has your opinion changed based on
Mr. Page's testimony?
STEWART: No, not at all. I mean, I don't know why he would. He did not say anything that tied himself to any Trump officials or indicated actual
collusion or illegal activity. And look, you got to ask my Democratic colleagues about this because this isn't just Republicans blocking for the
president.
It really isn't. I've always said if the president or anyone around him did anything illegal, they should be held accountable for that. The
committee will ask those questions and will report to the American people. I still believe that.
But on the other hand, I think we have been into this now for more than a year and I think it's fair to say that there isn't evidence supporting
that. There just simply isn't. Now look, Mr. Page and others --
GORANI: But this additional piece of information in no way changes your mind because Mr. Page was working with the campaign. He met top officials.
He told at the time, Jeff Sessions, who was working with the campaign as well, one of its strongest advocates and spokespeople, he was going to
Moscow.
STEWART: Yes.
GORANI: So, it's not like there's nothing there.
STEWART: Well, I mean, so what you conclude from that, sure you have Mr. Page to Mr. Sessions if he knows at all knows, you know, very lightly
mentions I'm going to Russia. Well, lots of people go to Russia. There is nothing illegal about going to Russia.
Why in the world would he draw any conclusion because some person that he hardly knows says I'm going to go to Russia to give a speech. That hardly
is definitive evidence of any nefarious intent.
And again, I just think if you are waiting for that, then you are going to be frustrated. There are things that we've seen, and the special counsel
have seen, Mr. Manafort, for example, if the indications are perhaps he did not comply with some laws regarding financial disclosures, whether he's a
foreign agent, perhaps money laundering.
The courts will decide that. But if someone is laying there, as I've said, if they are waiting for this president to be impeached, I just think they
are going to end up waiting a long, long time because this investigation just isn't leading to that conclusion.
GORANI: All right. Representative Chris Stewart, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate your time on CNN this evening.
[15:15:03] A lot more to come, a strong exchange of words between Saudi Arabia and Iran, tensions are heating up even more. What both guys are
saying?
Also ahead, Theresa May, she's dealing with Brexit, misbehaving ministers, and now a very dark development in British politics. We'll explain after
the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: We are continuing to follow the escalating tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia that has been causing so much friction through proxy
battles across the region. Both sides lashing out after a thwarted missile strike on the Riyadh airport days ago.
Saudi's crown prince is accusing Iran of supplying rebels in Yemen with those missiles and what he describes as, quote, "direct military
aggression" by the Iranian regime. So, essentially Saudi is accusing Iran of an act of war.
Iran is denying that claim with Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif calling the Saudi comments dangerous allegations. All of this amid anti-
corruption purge in Saudi Arabia involving more than a dozen top Saudi princes. John Defterios has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN MONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR (voice-over): It's not your typical five-star experience. Unforgettable as it may. New footage
from inside the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Saudi Arabia's capital, Riyadh, shows a dramatic transformation from a favorite haunt of the well-heeled into
arguably the world's most luxurious prison.
Its gilded ballrooms and grant hallways now home to dozens of princes, billionaire businessmen, and former government ministers, swept up in an
intense anticorruption campaign led by the kingdom's young crown prince.
The video shows people, possibly guards lying on mads with a military style rifle perched up against the wall, it is a far cry from earlier this year
when the Saudi monarch warmly welcomed U.S. President Donald Trump at the palatial retreat or for just last month, went along with hundreds of global
business leaders, I attended the so-called "Jobless in the Desert" there.
A gathering meant to tell the world the kingdom is open for business. Robots greeted guests, Saudi's cities of the future were born, the moneyed
class were impressed. How times have changed? While billionaires still walk its marbled halls, they are no longer foreign businessmen seeking a
deal.
But Saudi elite (inaudible) by a young crown prince up ending traditions all in the name of fighting corruption. John Defterios, CNN Money, Abu
Dhabi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, let's head straight out to Beirut now. Our Ben Wedeman with the very latest. I want to talk about Saad Hariri. He left Saudi Arabia,
not to come back to Lebanon briefly in the last 24 hours. When do we expect Saad Hariri, the Lebanese prime minister, who stepped down, some say
pressured by Saudi Arabia to return to Lebanon?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the question, Hala, that everybody is asking here among many, but nobody seems
to know the answer.
[15:20:06] We do know that Fouad Siniora, who is a member of the Future Block Movement led by Hariri that he said that he would be coming back
within the next few days, but there is no clear indication that that is going to be the case.
And that the president of the Republic, Michelle Ono, who is a Christian affiliated with his Hezbollah or friendly with Hezbollah, has said that
until Hariri comes back, no new government will be formed because the government or rather he does not consider Hariri's resignation from Riyadh
via Saudi television to be valid.
So, it has not been accepted yet. So, Lebanon is yet again over these many decades in the situation of political limbo -- Hala.
GORANI: So, it didn't have a president, the country for several years. Now it doesn't have a prime minister. Who is running things in Lebanon?
WEDEMAN: Well, as you know, that the political system is divided between the various sects. The president is a Christian. The speaker of
parliament is a Shia. Normally, the Prime Minister is a Sunni. So, you have all those other blocks have their pieces of the pie, but at the
moment, nobody is running or representing the Sunnis at that very senior level.
So, it is a vacuum at the moment and certainly, there is no clear indication when that vacuum will be filled. Now it is important to keep in
mind that the Lebanese are accustomed to that. In fact, many would say the less government, the better.
That people can get on with their lives, but there is no clear sign that this crisis at least the political one here in Lebanon is coming to an end
anytime soon. But we were out on the street speaking to people, they are annoyed somewhat, but they are getting on with their lives, Hala.
GORANI: Well, that is -- I wouldn't expect any lights from the Lebanese, but the question, I guess, is, and we've been discussing this over the last
several days is what's happened in Saudi Arabia, the resignation of Saad Hariri, all the unrest, of course, in neighboring countries.
That there is more and more concern that there will be conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, among other parties, why is that?
WEDEMAN: Well, certainly, the Israelis and particularly Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been speaking for decades about the Iranian
threat. Whether it is from Syria via Hezbollah, from his allegations that Iran has a nuclear program, which apparently does not, rather nuclear
weapons program.
And therefore, this is yet another opportunity. He said after Hariri blasted the Iranians on Saturday when he resigned for their interference in
Arab affairs across the region that that was a wake-up call and for Netanyahu this is another opportunity to beat the drums about the Iranian
threat.
Do the Israelis actually want to become involved in another war like they did in 2006 where frankly they were bogged down for well over a month by
not even an Arab army, but an irregular military force that proved to be more competent than most Arab armies over the last few decades.
So, both sides have said that they are preparing for the next round and Israel has had a series of major military exercises clearly in preparation
for the possibility of hostilities with Hezbollah, but we are not quite to the point where that is in the foreseeable future InShaAllah -- Hala.
GORANI: OK. InShaAllah, thanks very much. Ben Wedeman live in Beirut. By the way, with all of this, oil prices went up initially, but they've
eased again today just one day after that Saudi crackdown. Tensions with Iran initially rattled the markets.
The price of oil had climbed to its highest level in nearly two and a half years on Monday. Brent crude top $64 a barrel, which was quite a high
there, but we are seeing that level sort of retreat a bit.
Now to a development that has rocked the political world in this country, a Welsh Assembly member was found death just days after he was suspended from
his party after allegations over personal conduct.
His death is now the darkest development during what has been a very rocky time in British politics and people are asking a lot of questions about
what happened. Diana Magnay has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:25:08] DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Two weeks into a sexual harassment scandal, which shows no signs of abating, Westminster on Tuesday
was shocked by news of a death. Welsh Assemblyman Sir Carl Sargeant was found dead in his home in North Wales, just days after he was suspended
from the Labour Party following undisclosed allegations of improper conduct.
Police are not treating his death as suspicious. A terrible turn in a bitter few weeks of British politics, which has seen MPs from across the
party suspended. Defense Secretary Sir Michael Fallon stepped down after admitting his past behavior towards women had fallen short.
And the prime minister's right-hand man, Damien Greene, under investigation, the unwanted sexual advances, allegations he vigorously
denies. As if the growing scandal weren't enough already, there are new questions over the conduct of two other key ministers.
The international development secretary, Priti Patel, under scrutiny for failing to disclose in advance a series of meetings with Israeli officials
while she was on holiday in Israel. Patel apologized for not following usual procedures in reporting those meetings.
The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, also facing criticism for adding fuel to the fire of Iranian suspicions about a jailed British-Iranian woman.
Iran apparently using his comments to hold Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe back before a judge over the weekend. Her family now concerned her five-year
jail term will be extended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.K. government has no doubt that she was on holiday in Iran when she was arrested last year and that was the sole
purpose of her visit. My point was that I disagree with the Iranian view. The training journalist was a crime. Not that I wanted to lend any
credence to Iranian allegations that Mrs. Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been engaged in such activism.
MAGNAY (on camera): It could hardly get worse for Britain's prime minister. The Parliament (inaudible) majority stripped away in June was
catastrophic election, her government fractured by Brexit. Now accused of being too weak even to sack those ministers who defied her.
Perhaps all that's keeping her in power is that at this stage, at least, there seemed to be no cabinet ministers prepared to take on her Brexit
voters. Diana Magnay, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come in Seoul, not all South Koreans are thrilled the American president is in town.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: In just a moment, we'll get back to Donald Trump's trip to Asia and the mix reception he's getting in Seoul. I'll speak with an expert
about the president's stance on the North and what he wants to be done.
And Boris Johnson, the master of the verbal faux pas in British politics as we've just seen, this time, though, it's no laughing matter for a British-
Iranian woman imprisoned inside Ira. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Donald Trump is getting a red carpet welcome in Seoul from South Korean President Moon Jae-in. But
outside the blue house, not all South Koreans are thrilled that the American president is in town.
Take a look here. It's a tale of two cities in Seoul really, quite divided. President Trump is getting a mixed welcome. We'll be watching
closely when he addresses the Korean national assembly. It's just under six hours from now. We'll be carrying that live on CNN.
Back in Washington, the US Senate Banking Committee has voted unanimously to impose even tougher sanctions against North Korea. The bill still needs
to be voted on by the full Senate, but it certainly sends a strong message to the North during the president's trip.
Laura Rosenberger joins me now from Washington. She's the Director of the Alliance for Securing Democracy at the German Marshall Fund and was the
national security director for China and Korea. Thanks for being with us.
I thought all the sanctions you could possibly impose on North Korea had been imposed on North Korea. What is there left to do? On the US side, I
mean.
LAURA ROSENBERGER, DIRECTOR, ALLIANCE FOR SECURING DEMOCRACY, THE GERMAN MARSHALL FUND: Yes, absolutely. I do think there are additional screws
that can be tightened when it comes to North Korea. But you're right to point out that there is a limit to how much the US can unilaterally do.
I think that's why it's so important that we have a comprehensive strategy that's designed to work with our partners and allies around the world to
build pressure in a really integrated multilateral manner to squeeze North Korea.
What we've seen from Kim Jong-un is an escalation not only of rhetoric, but a continuing pace of missile launches, nuclear tests, they're getting to a
really critical point in the development of their program and this kind of pressure is going to be really critical to changing his calculus.
GORANI: But will it work? Because the sanctions route, we've been on that route for a long time. It has, in fact, led to the strengthening of the
North's nuclear program. We believe they can even miniaturize nuclear material on a missile. So, this is not something that was the case just a
few months ago.
So, if that's a failed strategy, why continue to pursue it?
ROSENBERGER: So, I don't think it's fair to say that the sanctions have led to their development of the capacity -
GORANI: But they've allowed - no, no. Not led. They've allowed it to happen. They didn't prevent it happening.
ROSENBERGER: Correct, correct. And I think part of that is because we have not yet taken things to the full scope of where they can go. It was
towards the end of the Obama administration that we finally started to see some imposition of secondary sanctions on Chinese entities engaging with
North Korea.
I think that there is a lot of activity that's happening not only between China and North Korea still, but Russia and North Korea. I certainly hope
those are going to be part of the president's agenda when he speaks with those leaders, both when he's in Beijing and then apparently when he's
going to meet with President Putin in Vietnam.
I think it's incredibly important, though, that be part of a broader comprehensive strategy. Our defense assets in the region are critical to
this.
But it's also critical that we ensure this pressure is leading somewhere. Pressure alone is not the answer. And it has to be part of providing a
diplomatic path out.
But Kim Jong-un has got to understand that, in fact, his regime is actually threatened by pursuit of this program and we're just not at the point of
actually being able to shift that calculus, which is why I think more pressure is needed.
GORANI: And the president, Donald Trump, was singing a very different tune four, five weeks ago. He tweeted this, speaking on Twitter, to secretary
of state, "I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man" and that
the era of strategic patience is over. "Save your energy, Rex. We'll do what has to be done."
How does this impact sort of the situation, tweets like this from the United States' president, do you think?
ROSENBERGER: So, as I said, I think what we need is a really comprehensive strategy to go at this problem. Those kind of tweets are the opposite of
that. This kind of mixed messaging, a lack of coordinated approach, undercutting his administration officials really is the exact opposite of
what we need to be seeing.
I think at least our allies -
GORANI: But he's different now. Do you think he's doing a better job now because he's been measured?
ROSENBERGER: It's not necessarily the question of being measured or not. I had concerns about some of his rhetoric because I think it was chest-
thumping without being attached to a strategy and I think he had raised the risk of miscalculation.
My bigger concern is not how we talk, moderated rhetoric or not. My bigger concern is that it all has to be coordinated. The president can't - he
made a statement last week about - with regard to the State Department and the fact that there are unfilled positions still. He made the statement,
basically indicating that he's the only one that matters. And he needs to understand that's simply not the case.
There is a whole national security apparatus that is where we gain our power. It's where we're able to exert that power to coordinate all these
different pieces.
And when he alone is trying to drive something that keeps changing course and is completely unconnected to what his secretary of state, his secretary
of defense, his secretary of the treasury is trying to do, that's really dangerous. And that actually leaves us vulnerable to North Korea -
GORANI: Laura, some would argue, OK, that's fair enough, that makes sense. The previous administration, the Obama administration, in the eight years
that it was in office couldn't really manage to address this North Korea problem.
In those eight years, North Korea strengthened again and again its nuclear program to the point where we believe it's now militarized. So, how do you
respond to that? Maybe what Donald Trump is doing now is just kind of mixing things up.
ROSENBERGER: So, this is one of the most difficult national security challenges that we face. It's vexed three presidents across two
administrations. I worked for two of those presidents. I worked on this issue in both the Bush administration and in the Obama administration.
Neither of them were able to get this right. Neither of them were able to stop this program. I certainly think that this is an area where we can't
simply say we have a solution that will work.
But I think we do know that doing so will require actually bringing to bear all the tools of our national power in a coordinated way. And what we're
seeing right now is not that happening.
And president undercutting his administration officials, a president who is offering a continuing changing sense of his approach - when we need to be
working with our allies in Seoul and Tokyo, when we need to be getting Beijing and Moscow to be able to exert more pressure, they sort of look at
this and they don't know how to read this, let alone North Korea.
I do think I mentioned the risk of miscalculation and I do think that, as we see changing rhetoric from the president, Pyongyang is looking at what
he's saying, and the risk that one day he says something that Kim Jong-un misreads and decides to take action based on a miscalculation, I think is
sort of the ultimate concern.
GORANI: Laura Rosenberger, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate your time this evening.
ROSENBERGER: Thanks, Hala.
GORANI: If you are someone who travels, you probably expect your country's foreign secretary to stick up for you and your interests when you're
abroad. Well, the UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson is being accused of doing exactly the opposite.
A British woman, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, is being held in jail in Iran accused of spying. She was arrested while on holiday in Tehran in April
2016. Her family insists she was there on a private visit.
But comments made by Boris Johnson suggesting she'd been working there training journalists on the trip could end up making her situation worse,
even extending her jail sentence.
Listen to what Johnson said last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: When we look at what Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was doing, she was simply teaching people journalism as I
understand it. At the very limit, she was - I am very -- I hope that a way forward can be found."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, today, in Parliament, Boris Johnson was forced to clarify that statement and he tried to, but he did not apologize for misspeaking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: The UK government has no doubt that she was on holiday in Iran when she was arrested last year and that was the sole purpose of her visit.
My point that I disagree with the Iranian view that training journalists was a crime, not that I wanted to lend any credence to Iranian allegations
that Ms. Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been engaged in such activity.
I accept that my remarks could have been clearer in that respect and I'm glad to provide this clarification.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Boris Johnson there today. Nazanin's husband Richard has been campaigning tirelessly for her release and he joins me now. Thanks for
being with us.
Are you satisfied with this clarification from the foreign secretary?
RICHARD RATCLIFFE, HUSBAND OF NAZANIN ZAGHARI-RATCLIFFE: Well, this morning, I was demanding that he get up in Parliament and explain that she
was innocent and she was just on holiday. So, yes, I'm happy that he did that.
GORANI: Are you satisfied that he went as far as he did or did you want him to be more forceful to go further? Essentially, you want the Iranian
authorities to hear him say -
[15:40:06] RATCLIFFE: To say that she's innocent and I made a mistake. And, obviously, the opposition politicians were all bashing him quite hard
today, saying that you need to go further, you need to apologize.
And the apology, for me, is not that important. The important point is saying that, listen, she's innocent. The British government's view is that
she's innocent and there is no basis for holding her.
The sort of wider context is that, following his comments last week, she was taken to court on Saturday, additional charges were added -
GORANI: Based on what he had said?
RATCLIFFE: Well, not directly in terms of what was said in the court room, but the following day, the judiciary put out a big statement, saying the UK
confirms that she wasn't there on holiday. So, clearly, making (INAUDIBLE).
GORANI: Sure. So, we know Boris Johnson has spoken to his counterpart. We believe he'll make a trip to Iran in the next few weeks. You trust that
he's going to deliver the right message?
RATCLIFFE: Look, I think if he goes to Iran and if he meets with Nazanin, that's an important diplomatic signal and it signals that the British
government is standing up for her.
Obviously, all along, our call for the government to be clearer, to be saying more critically that the Iranian treatment of Nazanin is unfair, to
be saying more clearly that she's innocent and that there was no basis for holding her in the first place.
GORANI: But the Foreign Minister of Iran Zarif is not necessarily the one who holds the key here in -
RATCLIFFE: He's not that powerful there. And what he did do, as the Iranian media was reporting, is that he has then asked the Iranian
judiciary to release her. So, there has been a knock-on effect. And we will see how the judiciary responds.
GORANI: Have you been able to speak with her in the last few days? How often are you able to communicate?
RATCLIFFE: So, it varies. And I spoke to her on Saturday just off of the trial. She was desolate. I mean, really sad, bewildered and so upset.
I spoke to her again on Sunday. She was a bit better. And, in fact, she (INAUDIBLE) one of the other prisoners and called me. And she was a bit
calmer again this morning.
GORANI: She's able to - at least you're able to stay in phone communication. Can you travel to Iran and see her in person?
RATCLIFFE: I can't get the visas. I've got that application in for a number of months now.
GORANI: And your daughter has been in Iran since April -
RATCLIFFE: So, Nazanin is able to see Gabriella. And, obviously, she was 21 months when this started. She is three-and-a-quarter now. So, she's
grown up half her life without her parents.
GORANI: And you've not been able to see her since then?
RATCLIFFE: Yes.
GORANI: It's just so sad. What is your -- obviously, I know your hope now is that your wife and daughter will be able to return at least in time for
this year, for Christmas. What is the - what do you think would be the most effective thing that the foreign secretary could say?
RATCLIFFE: Look, I think him stating publicly that she was innocent and that she was just there on holiday was an important step. I think him
going to Iran and insisting on seeing her will be an important step.
And there's a way which there is clearly - I know there are a whole set of politics going on that I'm not privy to, that I don't understand, but the
government needs to find a way to solve this. Both governments need to find a way.
GORANI: Because the authorities in Iran are saying your wife - and this is before Boris Johnson made any reference to training journalists, that your
wife, in April, when she traveled to Iran was there on --that she was a spy, that she was trying to topple the government, all sorts of charges
that led to that first five-year sentence.
RATCLIFFE: Yes. Different stories that come out on the Iranian media come from the Revolutionary Guards. We've also had messages saying, listen,
pressure the British government to make an agreement and we will drop the case.
It's clearly political. Her sentencing happened when the embassy was upgraded. There's a way in which there's all this stuff going on there.
It's like what's this to do with us. This is a mother on holiday. How can this be so crazy.
GORANI: Richard Ratcliffe, best of luck to you and your family. Thank you so much for joining us.
A lot more to come this evening. Horror on the Mediterranean. This number is mind-boggling. Twenty-six teenage girls pulled from the water. I'll
ask the new head of the International Federation of the Red Cross, how this can still happen and what needs to be done. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:58] GORANI: The scene is so horrific. It's almost too horrific to imagine. More than two dozen bodies floating in the Mediterranean. That's
exactly what Italian rescuers were confronted with over the weekend. And we now know that the dead were all teenage girls. Twenty-six bodies have
been recovered.
They are thought to have been between 14 and 18 years old. Officials are investigating how the girls died. Obviously, falling off of a boat means
they most probably drowned. They're believed to be migrants from Nigeria and Niger who were trying to reach Europe.
The International Organization for Migration says so far this year more than 2,800 migrants have died in the Med. Most of them trying to cross
from Libya into Europe.
My next guest knows this issue better than almost anyone. Francesco Rocca is the new president of the International Federation of the Red Cross and
he joins me now live from Antalya, Turkey.
Mr. Rocca, first of all, we don't talk about it as much. It's kind of fallen away from the headlines, but the number of migrants who die drowned
in the Mediterranean is still in the thousands every year.
Are the European countries living up to their obligations with regards to these migrants?
FRANCESCO ROCCA, PRESIDENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE RED CROSS: Of course, they are. And this is very sad. We have tried to speak
up, to make (INAUDIBLE). We didn't succeed.
I think the selfish Europe is prevailing and this is very, very sad. And the volunteers of the Italian Red Cross were there in the port receiving
those migrants and those 26 dead bodies. That was a very sad moment because this has happened too many times.
And to be sincere, we have enough because this - they are responsible for these deaths. This is not they are not responsible. We know perfectly who
is not taking care of them, who is not taking care about protecting their lives -
GORANI: But who is not taking care of them?
ROCCA: On my view, of course, who caused them to flee from one hand and who is not taking care about their obligation, not fulfilling their
obligation. You recall it. There are clear obligation.
And these people is escaping from a country in war because technically Libya is a country in war and we have an obligation to receive the people
who is escaping from a country in war.
And I'm not talking about only the humanitarian aspect, but also according to the international humanitarian - in international law. And this is an
obligation to receive and protect peoples escaping from a country in war.
GORANI: So, would you say European countries are living up to their obligations under international humanitarian law or not?
ROCCA: International law for sure. And this is something that is very sad because when you do not scale up the operation in the Mediterranean to save
lives, from people who is escaping from these countries, of course, there is a responsibility.
When you don't support the path of these people or you do not relocate the people who has arrived in Italy or in Greece, and they are stuck in these
country and giving them no hope to have a better life from the place where they escaped, this is something that must be fixed.
And we have said several times, we're ready to engage the European Union and all the governments involved in a new discussion to protect the lives
and the dignity of these people.
GORANI: Let me ask you about the Rohingya Muslim minority. Do you believe what's happening with them is ethnic cleansing?
[15:50:00] ROCCA: Look, I have not been in Myanmar. I've had the experience of visiting Cox's Bazar in Bangladesh. And what I've seen is
something that I've never seen in my entire life.
I've been in several places and I have unfortunately had the experience of so many crises, but never as touching and like - struck me like has
happened during this visit in Cox's Bazar.
Think about a town of 600,000 people built up in only few weeks, four or five weeks, without no water, no electricity. Think about what happen to
the children that live in that condition in the night when there is no light. Everything is dark. You only see people crying or the voice of the
people, but you don't see anything. And this is something very scary. It's something that is unbelievable. It seems to go in the hell.
It's something that I cannot wish to anyone to have the experience of this and think that there are thousands of children with no relatives and no
parents living in that condition.
GORANI: Francesco Rocca, thank you so much for joining us from Antalya. And good luck there, as you head the International Federation of the Red
Cross. Thank you. We'll be right back on CNN.
ROCCA: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: For many, beer is the alcoholic drink of choice to accompany an Indian meal, but there's a new trend emerging out of one of the holiest
places in India. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nasik has a very rich history. It's considered to be the place where Lord Rama wandered during his years of exile where the
oceans were churned and some of the mythical nectar called soma or somras dropped.
And that's very apt because, today, Nasik is the center of Indian wine. India had a tradition of wine 500 years ago. Under the British, India
became a spirits and beer drinking country. And now, wine is making a comeback and it's just taking off.
It's been just over 15 years since Sula came into existence. Our wines are exported to about 25 countries and Indian wines are being tasted more and
more abroad. They are no longer a novelty item.
KARAN VASANI, HEAD WINEMAKER, SULA VINEYARDS: Hi. My name is Karan Vasani. I'm head winemaker at Sula Vineyards, Nasik. And let's go for a
little bit of a tour and a tasting.
It's over here in our temperature and humidity-controlled barrel room where we have about 1,300 barrels.
Oak and wine is a match made in heaven. The oak just lifts up the wine. It makes it smoother, it makes it richer. Pacing (ph) wine in barrel is a
little bit like slow cooking. You just have to be tasting till you know it's done. But it's really both an art and a science.
So, we're here at the disgorging lines. Here we have our neck freezer which is at minus 25 degrees. Here, the yeast in the bottle is frozen and
it forms an ice plug. There's some volume of wine is lost, but here the bottles are shot back up to 750 ml.
So, on this bottling line, we can disgorge about 2,400 bottles a day. And after they've been disgorged, they are corked, the wire cage is closed, the
bottles are cleaned up. And then, they come out into the market to you.
[15:55:12] India is so ready for wine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is really a misconception that Indian food does not go well with wine. It's less than 1 percent of all alcoholic beverages
consumed in India. But it's growing much, much faster than any other alco- bev. And it's going to be a very significant beverage in the years to come.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: There you have it. Wine is the new drink in town. Earlier today, I asked you on twitter for your feedback to one of our top stories, do you
agree with President Trump when he says that extreme vetting on gun owners would not prevent firearm massacres.
And we got many, many responses. Brett Amadon (ph), I hope I'm pronouncing that right, make the point that seat belts don't prevent all auto deaths.
We still make them required by law.
Robert Mio Chic (ph) thinks Mr. Trump is right. He says people don't kill because of guns, but because they are killers.
Alfred Vega (ph) says, but as big money equals NRA is so many politicians and they accept it, nothing will happen. So, get new politicians.
I'm glad to get your perspectives. So, be sure to reach out on social media. We post interesting clips from our interviews on our Facebook page,
Facebook.com/HalaGoraniCNN. And also look me up on Twitter at @HalaGorani. And let me know your thoughts on the day's top stories under the hashtag
#HGT.
Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Richard Quest is next right here in London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
