Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Trump's Jerusalem decision draws criticism, praise; Erdogan: Jerusalem is "redline" for Muslims; "TIME" names "Silence Breakers" as Person of the Year; 30 Democrats call on Senator Franken to resign; Putin: No Russian boycott of 2018 Winter Olympics; "CNN Freedom Project": Trafficking victim recounts horrific ordeal in Libya; Tributes to French singer Johnny Hallyday; "Feast on Tokyo": Adding Japanese touch to non- Japanese classic
Aired December 06, 2017 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:25]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone and welcome. I'm Hala Gorani. In the past couple of hours, decades of carefully handled
foreign policy have been upended by Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Today, we finally
acknowledge the obvious that Jerusalem is Israel's capital. This is nothing more or less than a recognition of reality. It is also the right
thing to do. It's something that has to be done.
That is why consistent with the Jerusalem Embassy Act, I am also directing the State Department to begin preparation to move the American Embassy from
Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. This will immediately begin the process of hiring architects, engineers, and planners so that a new embassy, when completed,
will be a magnificent tribute to peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Ignoring red flags everywhere from the U.N. to the Vatican, the president has just had charged ahead with one of his major campaign
promises officially recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Israel's prime minister says other countries should now do the same, but in the Arab world, there is fury. France even beyond the Arab world saying
the move goes against international law.
While Mr. Trump may insist he is committed to a two-state solution, the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, says any hopes of that are now
dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAAB EREKAT, SECRETARY GENERAL, PLO EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE: Unfortunately, President Trump just destroyed that possibility of a two-state. He has
taken that action to recognize Jerusalem as capital of Israel. This is in fact a contradiction of agreement signed between Palestinians and Israelis.
(Inaudible) that no side should take any action that will pre-empt (inaudible). This is step prejudging, dictating, closing doors for
negotiations. I think President Trump tonight disqualified the United States of America to (inaudible) any role in the peace process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, he sounds almost the defeated, Saab Erekat, he's been a negotiator and a member of the PLO for decades. We are covering all sides
of the story. Ian Lee is in Ramallah in the West Bank. Nic Robertson is in Jerusalem.
First of all, Nic, I want to start with you. You are in Jerusalem. What does this change tangibly on the ground? Is this just a symbolic sort of
announcement by the U.S. president to wants to fulfill a campaign promise and satisfy his base?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Will certainly is encouraging Israeli politicians from Prime Minister Netanyahu down. I
mean, he described this is a courageous decision that will help the peace process.
We've heard that from other government ministers saying that this is a historic day and that this is -- the United States is doing what other
nations should do as well, which is high praise for President Trump and something of a rarity for him.
You know, where does this leave the peace process? We heard from Saab Erekat there. We've heard some of the Palestinian leaders saying that this
really throws into question United States' ability to act as an independent mediator in this.
Where does it leave things on the ground? This evening we are outside the Jaffa Gate along the city walls of the old city of Jerusalem and just out
of sight behind me. You can't see it. There is a huge projection of an Israeli under U.S. flights flying side by side on the wall.
So, clearly, it voiced the Israeli perspective that here is United States president who stands behind them. What we heard from the Israeli Prime
Minister Netanyahu was echo what President Trump has said that this would change nothing in terms of access for all religions, Muslims, Christians,
and Jews to be able to go and practice their faith at the key holy sites here.
But really what it does is, is it seeps into that that question of when can this peace process really begin? It's been stalled at feasance the
question of who can actually help in here.
[15:05:06] And the resounding regional narrative is this is contradictory and it doesn't help.
GORANI: And Ian Lee in Ramallah, what do the Palestinians do now?
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, just right now behind me here in Al- Manara Square in Ramallah, we've seen dozens of protesters coming out waving Palestinian flags and denouncing President Trump's statement.
From the leadership level, what we've heard from the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, he warned that President Trump's decision could lead to an
endless cycle of violence, of war, also said that this announcement only emboldens extremists.
And he denounced the United States as not being a partner for peace, almost brushing aside the statement that was made by the president saying that
Jerusalem will remain the capital of a future Palestinian State so somewhat defiant there in the face of the president.
We also know he spoke with other regional leaders, the leaders of Egypt as well as Qatar, to gauge their reaction as well. But, you know, the real
question is what is the Palestinian street going to say?
This last summer we saw crisis surrounding what the Palestinians call (inaudible). To Israelis, it's the Temple Mount and that crisis was really
driven by the Palestinian streets.
They were the ones that drove the narrative. So, going forward we are probably expecting more of that. There is a real frustration here about
what is going to happen next. OK, the president of United States said this. Now the Palestinian people are wondering what their leadership is
going to do.
GORANI: All right. And what options they have actually that's going to be interesting to explore. Ian Lee in Ramallah. Thanks very much. Nic
Robertson is in Jerusalem.
My next guest welcomes today's move and also says it's time for the world to recognize full Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights. Opposition
lawmaker, Yair Lapid is chairman of the Yesh Atid Party and he joins me live from Jerusalem.
So how is this move not making a negotiated peace settlement now near impossible? This move by the U.S. president to declare that the U.S.
designates Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
YAIR LAPID, CHAIRMAN, YESH ATID PARTY: Well, it is possible only if the Palestinians won't see to it to be possible. I was listening to Saeb
Erekat giving you an interview before me and he said -- you said that rightly so that he's been negotiating for decades and nothing happened.
When the Palestinians will be there for real negotiation then we are here as well, and I think nothing happened today to preclude this.
GORANI: Right. But this is a pre-judgment of the status of Jerusalem, which was meant to be a negotiated settlement between the two sides. So
how is this not getting in the way of -- of a real peace process.
LAPID: This wasn't meant to be negotiated. It was meant to be negotiated 3,000 years ago. Jerusalem has been the historical capital of the Jewish
people for 3,000 years. It's the Israeli capital in the last 70 years.
It was never a Palestinian capital so there's nothing to negotiate about Jerusalem. If somebody really, really doesn't want to negotiate, he got
himself an excuse today. But we must know this is only an excuse and nothing else.
GORANI: But I know that's your perspective. The international community doesn't see it that way at all. They don't look at 3,000 years ago. They
look at international law. We heard from the U.N. Secretary-General. We heard even from the French president saying this goes against international
law.
LAPID: Well, first of all, international law in not a natural law. International law is what people get together and agreed upon. The
Russians recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
The American administration actually from 1995 has been recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Now many other countries, so some
people have different views about our capital but --
GORANI: But there are no other countries that recognize Jerusalem --
LAPID: If I may --
GORANI: No other country has their embassy in Jerusalem.
LAPID: Well, listen, there might be some people who wonder -- I mean, there might some British who may wonder is Washington should be the capital
of the United States and yet, it is. And there might some people in Algeria who thinks Paris is the capital of France and yet it is. Jerusalem
is the capital of Israel. This is the way it is --
[15:10:04] GORANI: So, therefore that's not up for discussion. What you're saying is we've decided on our end. This is it. There's no
discussion with the Palestinians. Do you believe therefore that the Palestinians have zero claim on any part of Jerusalem east or west?
LAPID: Well, no, Jerusalem will unite under Israeli rule because it is a capital. Now, let me remind you, in the last decade and a half, 90 percent
of the territories were offered to the Palestinians three times and three times they've declined.
Apparently, they are not ready for the necessary responsibility they need to take in order to have an independence. This is not our problem. But
you're talking like Israel has announced something today.
The American president and by the way, the Russian prime minister (inaudible) has announced that they recognize Jerusalem as the capital of
Israel as they should have, and as the entire world has to recognize it because it is our capital.
It feels weird that I have to sit here and state the obvious again and again and again. It is our capital.
GORANI: But what about -- but I mean, I guess, I'll ask you the question again. What about the Palestinians? Do they have no claim to any of that
city?
LAPID: Well, the Palestinians -- no, the Palestinians -- first of all, they have a capital in Ramallah. This is where they sit. It's their
capital and had been (inaudible) since the Oslo court.
And they are more than welcome, and the vast majorities of Israelis support this, back to the negotiation table to discuss the future peace with
Israelis and Palestinians together. This is not something that was done in order to harm or to anger the Palestinians.
But let me tell you, we also have to look at their response. Have we come to the place in which we shape our policies? The United States, Israel,
Russia and any other country by the threats of violence?
If somebody will tell us, I'm going to riot, violent and exploding buses that we were supposed to shape our policies according to that? Of course,
not. When you give to terror, when you give in to terror, you have more terror. This is the one substantial truth we have learned here in the
Middle East.
GORANI: Yair Lapid, thanks so much for joining us live from Jerusalem. We appreciate your time this evening.
Let's get another perspective now, Mustafa Barghouti, is a member of the Palestinian parliament and founded the political party, the Palestinian
National Initiative. He joins me now from Ramallah in the West Bank. Mustafa Barghouti, Yair Lapid says you got Ramallah, that's your capital
and that's that.
MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI, PALESTINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: What about having Jaffa as our capital? Jaffa was originally a Palestinian city too. I think his
provocative, but he has just revealed the real position of all Israelis or all Israeli government people, or Israeli Zionist people in power.
They do not want to share anything. They do not want to share Jerusalem. They do not want to share Palestine. They want us out of this place and
he's denying our right to Jerusalem. He is denying our right to (inaudible).
He is denying our right as Palestinian Christians in the holy (inaudible) chance. He wants monopoly over Jerusalem. Mr. Trump has just helped them
by declaring Jerusalem as a capital Israel instead of saying capital of two states or instead of saying that East Jerusalem would be the capital of
Palestine although --
GORANI: The president of the United States --
BARGHOUTI: -- I think that should be negotiated.
GORANI: Yes. The president of the United States -- there was some -- parts of what he said were not -- were equivocal. I mean, in other words,
you could interpret in some of the things he said that he recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, but does not pre-judge the final
boundaries of what the capital city would look like.
In other words, the parts of it could potentially as the result of a negotiated solution become part of a future Palestinian state, and he did
mention the two-state solution.
I want to remind our viewers of what he said just earlier at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We want an agreement that is a great deal for the Israelis and a great deal for the Palestinians. We are not taking a
position of any final status issues including the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem or the resolution of contested
borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, what you make of that? Because the president is essentially saying we believe Jerusalem to be the capital, but there's still a lot of
negotiating that needs to happen and two states need to emerge from that negotiation process. Does that satisfy you?
BARGHOUTI: That's what -- no, no. It's one way just to absorb shocks, but let me tell you for me and for Palestinians, the statements of the
president mean nothing.
[15:15:07] For us, is Jerusalem, was, will be, and we will struggle for it to be the capital of Palestine, the independent state of Palestine. From
what President Trump has just did, has just done, is to abort his own peace initiative before it is born.
What he has just done is to eliminate the role of the United States administration as a mediator in the peace process. What he has just done
is to make the United States administration, his administration, a participant in violating the international law, which does not allow
(inaudible) by force. He has put the United States in an isolate position on Israel --
GORANI: But can I ask you, as a Palestinian, what are your --
BARGHOUTI: -- rejecting that.
GORANI: And we have covered the international reaction as we were mentioning from the U.N. all the way to the Vatican, there's been
condemnation of this. However, what are your options?
One of the things Yair Lapid said was the Palestinians have been negotiating for decades now, they've gotten nowhere. They were offered,
you know, a big chunk of Palestinian territory, they've refused over and over again. What today are your options as a Palestinian?
BARGHOUTI: What Mr. Lapid said is only part of the Israeli propaganda. We were never offered a state. No Israeli government ever accepted a
Palestinian statehood, and a sovereign Palestinian state and this Israeli government is even rejecting the principle of Palestinians having estates.
We have many options. We know what we want. We will continue to struggle like Martin Luther King did against the discrimination in the United
States, like Ghandi did to get the independence of India. We will not turn to violence, but we will enhance our popular non-violent resistance like
Martin Luther King did.
We will turn to boycott the (inaudible) sanctions and enhance it in every possible way to fight against the system not only of occupation, but
apartheid that Israel has created. And we will go to the United Nations.
We will go to every international possible place that the United States did not want us to go to including the International Criminal Court to demand
our rights, to demand justice, to demand the application of international law. This is our right and we will get it.
GORANI: Mustafa Barghouti, joining us from Ramallah. Thanks very much as we continue to cover this story from the region. Appreciate your time on
the program this evening.
A lot more to come tonight, fires scorched Southern California and spewed so much smoke, it can be seen from space. We'll get the very latest from
the front lines there.
And more on the president's decision to recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital, a former American point man on the peace process, Ambassador
Dennis Ross joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:11]
GORANI: Let's return to our top story on regional reaction to President Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Not
surprisingly, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is haling the move and he's urging other nations to follow President Trump's lead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We are profoundly grateful for the president for his courageous and just decision to recognize Jerusalem
as the capital of Israel, and to prepare for the opening of the U.S. Embassy here. His decision reflects the president's commitment to ancient
but enduring truths to fulfilling his promises and to advancing peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Despite Israel's overwhelming support for President Trump's action and it has to be said those in government. Not everyone in Israel is
supportive of this action. The diplomatic fallout could be severe even Mr. Trump's top advisors were divided.
Senior administration officials tell CNN the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, the defense secretary, James Mattis, and others argued against
disturbing the status quo. And they say the president's own son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who after all is spearheading the administration's peace
initiative thought the embassy move should be delayed.
Let's bring in Ambassador Dennis Ross from Washington. He was the former special envoy for the peace process under two presidents and he is now a
fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Thanks, Ambassador, for being with us. What impact do you I think this is going to
have?
AMBASSADOR DENNIS ROSS, FELLOW, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Well, it certainly will make it more difficult at least in the near term to
pursue what the demonstration itself was preparing, which as Jared Kushner announced on Sunday, was a plan. This plan that was as he made clear was
to be on the big issues.
So, from the standpoint of promoting that plan, it probably would have made more sense to at a minimum either delay this announcement or least embedded
in the plan so that Palestinians and Arabs could see also what they are getting in the context of the larger issues by --
GORANI: I was going to say the plan -- I mean, there is no peace process to speak of right now, why would the president do this now in your opinion,
based on your experience working under two presidents in the United States?
ROSS: Well, I think it's fair to say that this president likes to show that he is different than his predecessors and that came through in this
announcement. I'm not sure that any of the presidents I worked with before had the same exact thought process that President Trump has.
My guess is he did it because he really didn't like exercising the waiver again or if he was going to exercise the waiver again, he wanted in a sense
to show that he was doing something different than all of his predecessors.
I think also to be fair to him I think he understood that there is a reality that Jerusalem certainly -- some significant part of Jerusalem will
always be part of Israel and will be Israel's capital.
And I think he chaffed at the idea that he couldn't recognize that, but the arguments that were clearly made against it was if you simply do this now
without clear preparation with our leading air partners, you put them on the spot.
You create a kind of vulnerability for them because the enemies of peace will say they're acquiescing in the concession or conceding of Jerusalem.
So, all of our air partners, who in fact are critical to this effort now, they feel the need to do some distancing and disassociating. That's why
they've been making some pretty tough statements in response.
GORANI: And so do you think it will stop at statements or do you think it could be more severe because Turkey -- and we are going to be speaking with
one of the impact representatives of President Erdogan in a few minutes. Turkey, President Erdogan said this is a clear red line.
President Erdogan as you know wants to sort of portray himself as the leader of the -- you know a certain -- of the Muslim world, of the Sunni
Muslim world. He is saying very tough things about this and Turkey is an essential ally to the United States in the Middle East.
ROSS: It is. In some ways the fact that he will say these things will make it harder for the Saudis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Palestinians to
appear as if they're softer on this issue.
He may be seeking to stake out a very tough position precisely because he wants to make himself the focal point of Sunni Muslims and so Jerusalem
becomes an issue on which it's easy to mobilize great passions and I suspect that's part of the reason that he is adopting the positions that he
will.
GORANI: Right. Ambassador Dennis Ross, thanks so much. We really appreciate your time this evening on the program.
ROSS: My pleasure.
We'll talk more about the story in a little bit, but I want to update you on what's happening in California. Commuters are making their way through
an apocalyptic landscape. Take a look at some of this video.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Wind-whipped fires are burning through extremely dry terrain. Police have shut down about 40 km of busy highway. Flames swept down the
foothills and came so close to motorists. They felt the heat on their windows they've been reporting.
[15:25:14] The worst fires are scorching parts of Los Angeles and neighboring Ventura County. Smoke is even collecting in areas that aren't
earning and health officials are warning people to limit their time outside.
Strong winds have been a major factor as firefighters struggled to battle the flames. So, the question is will they see relief ahead.
Tom Sater joins me now from the World Weather Center. How is the wind forecast looking?
TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, Hala, when these fires started 24 hours ago, we had your tropical storm force winds. They lightened somewhat
today, but in about eight to nine hours, we are looking at hurricane force winds.
When you look at this, you can see how close they are to homes and yes, we've had some homes damaged. Remember back in September, that's your fire
season in the autumn. We had a couple fires in Northern California that scorched so many homes and took so many lives. It was in the top five of
the most deadliest, most disruptive storms in California history.
Now are looking at an event right now that is unprecedented for the month of December. These Santa Ana winds do not typically occur this time of
year. Here is the ocean. We've got about 8-kilometer stretch of the ocean in Ventura that the flames have moved all the way to the water.
And so, this is a problem, but it's not just this year, go back to the 80s roughly 140 large fires, Western states in the 90s 160, 250 up the 2012.
We are getting an earlier start to the fire season. It's ending later and we are having more of them.
They were in a terrible drought for five years, but last year, a lot of rainfall, a lot of snowfall, but this tremendous growth in vegetation now
is fueling this. High pressure, this time of year, you get mountains snows, but high-pressure this time of year?
It's showing these winds down and they slope down these mountains. They really pick up speed. This is not about heat in those kind of -- that
element that we have in the summer fires or in the fall. This is just about wind.
So, again, from L.A. to San Diego even further to the north. We've got a fire threat that's going to last most likely into the weekend. Here are
some your stronger warnings, but again around the L.A. area.
In fact, when you look at the four large fires right now the winds of been so erratic that only the right fire has a 5 percent containment. So again,
we are looking at least 65,000 acres that have been scorched just from the Thomas fire. That's in Ventura County.
But these winds kicking up to hurricane force in the days ahead are going to be a problem. That begins this evening, but already it's like Taipei
has burned or the city of Seattle.
So, there is no rain, Hala, in the forecast for at least the next two weeks. So, these firefighters have got to rely in just the winds lighting
up. Sometime should happen by Friday afternoon.
GORANI: Wow, two weeks without rain when you have that to deal with. Thanks very much, Tom Sater.
In fact, we can go to the scene, live in Ventura. I want to go to Paul Vercammen, who can join us from Ventura, California. Tell us what so
what's going on around you, Paul?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tom set this up beautifully, Hala, because I am just about 20 feet from the ocean and just over my right
shoulder, you can see what he was alluding to fire burning down slope, fire burns very slowly downhill, but it's just one of these menacing spot fires
that you see, and this stretches for miles.
Right in front of those flames, you might see a trucker to pass, that is 101 Freeway that main artery that goes from Los Angeles through Ventura,
Santa Barbara eventually to San Francisco.
It is still open and the firefighters are making a choice here as they've had to all week and that choice is try to send crews up into those canyons
would be extremely difficult. It's rough terrain.
So, they let it burn toward the Pacific using the Pacific Ocean and this freeway because concrete doesn't burn, of course, as natural barriers. We
know that there are 1,700 firefighters on this blaze alone and they been up against it.
Injuries that they've suffered you see a little bit in the air right now, but it's that ash that falls down. They've been suffering from eye
injuries and so the focus now is to contain this fire here.
One of their objectives is to never let it cross where I'm standing and across the railroad tracks into the left, you see some rather opulent
beachfront homes and they're going to make sure that they protect those. It's been, you know, a week to forget, if you will, for these firefighters.
GORANI: Right. And no rain for two weeks is what Tom was saying. Thanks very much, Paul Vercammen in Ventura, California.
We'll have a lot more on our top story after the break, the United States decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. I'll speak to a
senior advisor to the Turkish president, who slammed President Trump's decision. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Well, reaction is pouring in from around the world to the historic decision by the American President
Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
The country's prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu thanked Mr. Trump, saying Jews will be grateful to him forever. He's also urged other countries to
follow suit.
However, the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres says he's always been against any "unilateral measures" that would jeopardize the peace process.
The French President Emmanuel Macron says the move could contravene the international law. The UK has just called "unhelpful."
And Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has reacted. He says Mr. Trump's decision will fuel regional tensions and undermine the peace
process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRESIDENT (through translator): These procedures do also help in the extremist organizations to wage religious
war that would harm the whole region, which is going through very critical moments within international crisis and would lead us into wars that will
never end, which we have warned about and always refused and urged to fight against.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, as you heard, the decision has big consequences for the entire region and beyond. Several leaders of Arab countries and some US
allies, for that matter, not Arab countries, but Turkey has told President Trump don't do it.
In the case of Turkey, the president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said this before Mr. Trump's announcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY: Mr. Trump, Jerusalem is the redline for Muslims. Our struggle on this matter will continue with
resolve. As a matter of fact, this can go as far as breaking off our diplomatic relations with Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Gulnur Aybet is a senior advisor to the Turkish president and she joins me now from Ankara live via Skype.
So, is now the next move for Turkey to break off diplomatic relations with Israel? Is that the next move?
GULNUR AYBET, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE TURKISH PRESIDENT: Well, President Erdogan made it very clear that this is an absolute redline for Muslims,
the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. But he said it could go as far as breakoff with relations with Israel. He didn't say that it will.
So, the first step is to actually show the international arena that this is actually an absolute redline for the Muslim world. And that is why Turkey
is convening a special emergency meeting of the Organization for Islamic Corporation next week here in Istanbul in Turkey. And that meeting will go
ahead to actually convey that message that this is an absolutely redline for -
[15:35:16] GORANI: If you draw a redline - I mean, the very definition of it is if someone crosses it, there are consequences. So, you must know
what the consequences will be at this stage. Or has that not been determined yet.
AYBET: Well, I think, next week, once the Organization of Islamic Cooperation meets, the OIC. As you know, the Turkey holds the term
presidency. So, I think it was right for Turkey to come out with this statement.
Turkey also has a moral hinterland policy - foreign policy that it does care about what happens in the Muslim world, but also, I mean,
institutionally, it holds this presidency of the OIC.
So, it's absolutely appropriate for it to have made the statement. But I think you'll see a much more tangible result coming out of next week's
meeting.
And King Abdullah of Jordan was here today in Ankara, visiting the president. And in the press statements, they both said that they share the
same sensitivities with regards to this decision.
And President Erdogan also warns that this would be a wrong step. And such a step would light the fuse of new conflicts and would only aid terrorists.
So, this is a very stern warning. It's not just Turkey coming out here.
GORANI: So, you're saying it goes beyond - because, right now, we've had only statements from all the countries. You're saying they will be - there
will be tangible steps -
AYBET: Yes.
GORANI: And that that decision will be made around the time that the summit is convened in Turkey on December 13?
AYBET: Yes. I mean, when we say tangible steps, obviously, it will have to be unanimously approved by everybody there. But I think at this stage,
with King Abdullah also stating together with the president, you can see that there are very similar comments, sentiments coming out and
sensitivities coming out about the issue from the across the Muslim world.
And King Abdullah, I believe, will go away and convene the Arab League. So, you've got two international institutions - the Arab League and the OIC
- meeting to find some response to what has happened.
But I think the seriousness of the redline that we - and also, I don't really see how this can possibly contribute to a sustainable peace when
you're literally pissing the entire Muslim world now against this decision of the United States. How can it possibly lead to a sustainable -
GORANI: I just want to update you and our viewers that the Czech Republic has now joined the United States in recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of
Israel, but the foreign ministry has stressed in its statement to CNN that, at some point, it should become the capital of both Israel and a future
state of Palestine.
So, it's not just the United States. In this case, we're seeing Czech Republic following suit.
Do you believe now that the US cannot be a neutral honest broker in any peace process anymore? And if so, who should play that role?
AYBET: Well, I don't think the US can be an honest broker, frankly, after taking this decision. Now, as to who should play that role, I think that
the international community should try to continue with this -what we've achieved so far, so there's accumulation there as far as the two-state
solution is concerned and we can't just chuck it all out. The international community should make some efforts towards that.
But I think what's really important here is how we're going to see the Muslim world reacting, particularly with the meeting happening in Istanbul
next week, and how they are going to view whether a sustainable peace process is really off the tracks at the moment.
Obviously, everyone would like the peace process to come back on the tracks and continue. But at the moment, who should be taking the place of the
United States as an honest broker? I mean, I think that's something that has to be discussed among the countries that have so vocally opposed this
decision.
And it's not just the Islamic world. And we've seen statements from the EU as well as from France's president Macron and also from Theresa May today.
She spoke in the parliament in the UK that the UK's position had not altered and they favored a two-state solution.
GORANI: She called the decision unhelpful. Yes.
AYBET: Unhelpful, yes.
GORANI: Gulnur Aybet, thank you so much as always for joining us, a senior advisor to President Erdogan, live in Ankara.
[15:40:05] Let's turn now to another perspective. Gershon Baskin is in Jerusalem. He is the founder and cochairman of Israel/Palestine Creative
Regional Initiatives, which researches and advocates for a fair and just resolution to the conflict.
So, I'll just ask you very simply for your reaction to today.
GERSHON BASKIN, CO-CHAIRMAN, ISRAEL/PALESTINE CREATIVE REGIONAL INITIATIVES: I think it's important to note that, as everyone said, it is
helpful. But it is out there and now we have to deal with it.
So, the first important thing is that we contain violence, that there not be another explosion, another round of violence between Israelis and
Palestinians, in which people will be killed in vain.
Secondly, I think it's important to note the positive elements - or some of the positive elements that Trump said this evening.
He did not talk about united Jerusalem. He talked about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. We all know that Jerusalem is the capital of
Israel. He talked about a two-state solution. He talked about the Western Wall being the place of prayer for Jews and the Haram esh-Sharif, the
Temple Mount, he also called it as the place for Muslim prayer.
And he said that this issue of the future Jerusalem and its boundaries needs to be resolved in negotiations. This is essentially the position of
the PLO as it has been articulated even in a booklet that they produce, in which they say that the future of Jerusalem can be a city of two capitals,
one for the state of Israel and one for the state of Palestine.
GORANI: But that's not what he said, though. I think the issue here is he did not say a part of Jerusalem could become the capital of a future
Palestinian state. He didn't even acknowledge the Palestinians have any claim - but he didn't even acknowledge that Palestinians have any claim
whatsoever to any part of Jerusalem and that's what the Palestinians have picked up on, even though that he included that caveat that he's not
prejudging final boundaries.
BASKIN: I'm not defending Trump. And I think that the statement was unnecessary and not helpful, but it's out there and we have to deal with
it.
He did say that Jerusalem is a permanent status issue that needs to be negotiated by the parties and the United States would support a two-state
solution. We all know that a two-state solution involves two capitals in Jerusalem, one for Israel and one for Palestine.
There are today 340,000, 350,000 Palestinians living in Jerusalem under Israeli rule without political rights and that is unsustainable and not
acceptable, I think, for Israelis who want peace and certainly for Palestinians and others. And we need to be at the table negotiating.
I'm not sure that we can talk about a viable peace process. We haven't had one for four years. And I don't think with our current leaders, Netanyahu
certainly, in position, we're not going to have a viable peace process.
So, what we need to do now is not allow this to be the issue on which Jerusalem and the region is going to explode again.
GORANI: But what it changes is it makes the United States' position more difficult. I mean, it can't really now be seen by the Palestinians as an
impartial honest broker, can it?
BASKIN: I don't think the Palestinians - Palestinians never view the Americans as an impartial, honest broker. They've always seen the
Americans as being biased toward Israel. We all know that that's the truth.
The Palestinians have said that the Americans are perhaps the only ones who can be an effective mediator, not an impartial mediator. They all know.
Everyone knows where the Americans stand.
I'm not sure that that has changed with the Trump statement. My own preference is that the Israelis and the Palestinians going to the room and
negotiate directly without the Americans in the room.
I think the Israeli-Palestinian negotiation have always been when -
GORANI: That's the dream of vision, right? That's the dream of vision that you both sides around the table that hash this out, let's get this
done.
But the question is, what leverage do the Palestinians have here? I mean, the Israeli side is holding all the cards.
BASKIN: The only leverage that the Palestinians - the only leverage that the Palestinians have is that they are here and they are not going away and
their cause is just and their right to statehood, independence, freedom from occupation is a moral claim to make.
And it is one that the Israelis have to deal with because the Israelis don't want a binational state. They don't want to live in an apartheid
state. They want a democratic nation state for the Jewish people, which means that we have to end the occupation over the Palestinians in our own
interest as people who want Israel to be the democratic nation state of the Jewish people.
GORANI: Gershon Baskin, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time this evening on this important story.
BASKIN: My pleasure.
GORANI: And check us out online, Facebook.com/HalaGoraniCNN. We'll have more of our show's content on there.
All right. Turn to something different here. You may have - this is one of the stories we've talked about the most over the last several months,
the Harvey Weinstein scandal. It ended up opening the floodgates and spawning an entire movement.
Each day, women, and sometimes men, have come out of the woodwork and told their stories of sexual assault and other misconduct.
[15:45:10] The force has taken on a life of its own and that incredible momentum earned "TIME's" Person of the Year recognition. "TIME" calls the
women featured on its cover the "Silence Breakers." We'll have a lot more on this tomorrow by the way.
And one of the powerful men accused of sexual harassment is former comedian and Democratic Senator Al Franken. Thirty of his fellow Democrats are now
calling on him to resign over those allegations.
Franken says he will make an announcement about his future in politics tomorrow. At least six women, three of them unnamed, have accused them of
touching them inappropriately. The Minnesota senator is currently being investigated by the US Senate Ethics Committee.
And in other news as well, Vladimir Putin says Russian athletes can compete in next year's winter games under the Olympic flag if they want to. The
Russian president commented a day after the International Olympic Committee barred Moscow over a doping scandal. Individual athletes can still
participate, but under strict conditions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Most of the accusations are based on facts that have not been proven and are largely
unfounded. They are mainly based on the testimonies of a person whose moral and ethical attitudes and psychological state raise many questions.
There is nothing else.
Without any doubt, we will not declare a blockade of any sort. We will not prevent our Olympians from taking a part if any of them wants to
participate in their personal capacity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, Vladimir Putin there. And there was talk perhaps that Putin would be so angry about the IOC decision that he would bar Russian athletes
from participating at all even as neutral athletes. That didn't happen.
Mr. Putin spoke at an automobile plant where he also announced he would run for a fourth term next year.
Still to come this evening, the terrifying ordeal of one young woman whose quest to reach Europe was cut short when she was sold into slavery. Her
story in her own words coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: For two young women, their dream of reaching Europe quickly turned into a nightmare after they were trafficked in Libya and sold into slavery.
Now, at a steakhouse, one of the young victims talked to CNN about her ordeal. Here's Arwa Damon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sad because when I went to Libya, I was not like this.
ARWA DAMON, SENIOR CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Physically at least, 28-year-old Edie (ph) is finally free, but the pain of
what she endured, it's still so raw.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He used to hurt me apart from the work.
DAMON: She was sold into sexual slavery in Libya.
[15:50:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And especially they hate us, especially Nigerians. When you tell them that you are from Nigeria, they will treat
you like a slave. They treated us like a slave as if we don't even - we are nothing. So, we went through a lot there.
DAMON: Now back in Nigeria, she sits beside 18-year-old Jennifer, who is too traumatized to talk. They are kept here with other rescued women,
where the hum of an overhead fan and a soap opera on TV are the only comforts in this temporary home. They're all waiting to be reunited with
their families.
(on-camera): The young women are kept in a safehouse in an undisclosed location and the authorities say that as more and more return, the clearer
the picture of just how vile and abusive the situation in Libya is.
It's not just prostitution and human trafficking. Many returnees describe what sounds like an open-air slave market where people are just bought and
sold and anyone who tries to resist is often killed and their body just dumped in the desert.
(voice-over): They were trying to get to Europe, where the promise of work has driven record numbers of Nigerians on the dangerous journey across the
desert toward the Mediterranean.
And women? They are especially vulnerable along the way. Edie says she spent three days crossing the desert. One person in her convoy died along
the route. When she reached Libya, she said a prayer of thanks thinking the worst was behind her.
(on-camera): They sold you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
DAMON: Were they buying and selling a lot of people?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. That is what they do there. When they finish paying their money, if you're staying with somebody, they will sell you to
another people. So, you start all over again.
DAMON (voice-over): Little did she know that, like so many others, her goal, her dream of a better life would end in the increasing lawlessness of
Libya.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Benin City, Nigeria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Stay with us. We have a lot more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: France hasn't had a monarchy for more than 150 years. But today, it is mourning a king.
If you ever been to France, know anything about France, you would very likely have heard that voice, whether or not you even realize it. It
belongs to Johnny Hallyday, known as the French Elvis abroad, but was Johnny Hallyday in France.
He died at 74 following a battle with cancer.
The single, as I mentioned, isn't necessarily known outside the French- speaking world. But within France, he is the very definition of rock 'n roll, selling more than 100 million records over five decades.
The office of the French president says the whole country is in mourning. RIP Johnny.
All right. Now, let's take you to Japan as we have been doing for the last few days. There are obviously staples of Japanese cuisine, but as one chef
shows us, Tokyo's vibrant food scene goes beyond the expected sometimes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:55:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you think about Japan's best foods, pizza probably doesn't come to mind, but it should, according to Susumu
Kakinuma.
SUSUMU KAKINUMA, PIZZA PIONEER AT SEIRINKAN: What I've realized after 22 years is that pizza is an extremely Japanese-like food.
It's simple. And in my case, values the ingredients. Even the way you put it in the fire can change the taste in the subtlest ways. In that way, I
think it relates to Japanese food like yakatori.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kakinuma's obsession with pizza started on a visit to Naples, Italy in the early 80s.
He returned a decade later to learn the art of pizza making for himself.
KAKINUMA: But at the time, it was difficult for someone from Japan to work at a pizzeria there. There were a lot of people who had never seen a
Japanese person before. So, I wasn't really able to learn what I wanted to learn. I ended up simply eating a lot of pizza per year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But don't expect to find a lot of variety on his menu. There are only two options. With or without cheese. That's
because, at least the way I look at it, pizza is about the crust. It's not about the toppings, but about the taste of the crust. The toppings are
there to make the taste of the crust stand out. So, that's why I think we need only two.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That disciplined approach also applies to his cooking method. Each pizza is fried in the wood-burning oven for exactly 60
seconds. From there, it's carried straight to the customers.
KAKINUMA: There are no rules when it comes to eating delicious pizza. Whether you cut it with a knife or eat it by hand, as long as you eat it
while it's hot, doesn't matter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The name Seirinkan is a play on the Japanese word for Holly and Wood. Entertainment icons decorate the wrought iron restaurant,
but it's The Beatles who dominate.
And in the restaurant basement, a hidden music studio serves as a private sanctuary.
KAKINUMA: I work 365 days a year and I am in the restaurant almost all the time. So, I value the time I have to enjoy myself. You can't offer good
food if your own health is in bad shape. So, I make sure to take care of myself without fail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kakinuma is widely credited with creating Tokyo's appetite for artisanal pizza. Sometimes dubbed the city's Godfather or
prime minister of pizza, Kakinuma prefers to call himself a pizza pioneer and he hopes the new wave of pie makers will continue to innovate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: There you have it. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching tonight. Stay with CNN. "Quest Means Business" is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
