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Hala Gorani Tonight
Israeli Military Uses Force To Contain Gaza Protests; Tens Of Thousands Of Palestinians Protest In Gaza; Russia Expels More Diplomats In Wake Of Crisis With West; Russia Test Fires ICBM Nicknamed "Satan 2"; Yulia Srkipal's Health Improves After Poisoning; Corbyn: Labour Party Must Do Better On Anti-Semitism; Fox Anchor Apologizes For Mocking Parkland Survivor; The U.N. Has Its "Me Too" Movement; Kenyans Question Cambridge Analytica's Role in Election; Facebook Faces New Crisis With Leaked Memo; Tiangong-1 Falling To Earth After Six Years; Pope Francis Leads Good Friday Services. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired March 30, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:00:15]
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST: Hi. Everyone. Live from CNN Center, I'm Robyn Curnow sitting in for my friend, Hala Gorani.
Tonight --
(VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Deadly clashes in Gaza between Israeli forces and protesters. This is just the first day of six weeks of planned demonstrations. We are
live in Gaza City.
Also, ahead, an exclusive report on sexual assault to the United Nations, an accuser makes her allegations public to CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
And Facebook's CEO is trying to distance himself from a controversial internal memo, just wait until you see what was written.
Now the death toll is rising in Gaza as Israeli forces confront one of the biggest Palestinian protests in years. We know at least 15 Palestinians
are now confirmed dead. Nearly 1,500 others are wounded.
Now massive crowds turned out for a march of return near the border fence with Israel. Israel's military says troops responded to protesters by
throwing stones and rolling burning tires, firing at, quote, "main instigators."
Now you can see Israeli forces taking up positions by mounds of dirt. Israel earlier warned anyone approaching the fence that they were putting
their lives at risk.
Ian Lee has been covering these protests in Gaza. He is standing within sight of the border a little bit earlier on today. He joins us now in just
a moment, but this is what he heard.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thousands of Palestinians gathered here today. Let me show you the source of the tensions real quick. It's just right
down here. Few hundred meters away, you can see the border fence that separates Gaza and Israel.
The Palestinians have been pushing towards it all day using slingshots to throw rocks. Israeli soldiers have responded with tear gas as well as live
rounds. At one point, there were so many casualties that there weren't enough ambulances to ferry them to the hospital.
When you talk to people, though, they say that it's worth it. This land is worth their blood. They say that they're going to continue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Of course, we feel afraid, but we should sacrifice for our land. People should sacrifice for it, but, of
course, we feel scared. We are afraid because our children are very important to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: And this is where they're going to be staying in tents like this for at least the next six weeks. They say they are going to stay here until
their voices are heard. This movement, if you can call it that, they say they will continue it until May 15th.
That's the day that Palestine remembers in 1948 when many people became refugees. A lot of these people here are also the descendants of refugees.
Israel calls it their Independence Day, but tensions will continue, and we'll see the border just right over there become a continuous flash point.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: OK, that was Ian a little bit earlier. We now have Ian live in Gaza City. Ian, I mean, certainly, significant injuries and a lot of
people wounded. Was this from the live rounds?
LEE: Yes. This was live rounds and rubber bullets. We were talking to doctors, and they said a lot of those live rounds were actually directed
toward their legs of the protesters they were shooting at, although, some did hit up higher in the torso.
This was the large protest that we've seen in Gaza in years. Thousands of people not just in the area we were, but all along that border at different
locations protesting, t same type of violence, the same type of confrontations with the Israeli military.
And as you said, Israel has said that any attempt to breach that border, any attempts on their sovereignty and they will respond with force, but
Hamas has said that they want people to continue to go out and peacefully demonstrate.
And that's one key here that Palestinian officials have been saying is they want it to be peaceful. Yes, we did see slingshots, rocks thrown, but that
was the extent of the violence we saw from the Palestinians.
But this is just the first day, we have to remember that they want to continue this over the course of the next six weeks, and tonight from the
latest figures we have, 15 people killed, and well over a thousand injured.
CURNOW: OK. I mean, those are significant numbers. So why is the violence so bad this year? I mean, this is an annual event, what is
different?
[15:05:11] LEE: When you talk to people and what we're hearing from Hamas officials, this does have partly to do with President Trump's announcement
of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and the moving of the embassy. They say that they are just not going to have it.
They say that this protest shows they're not going to take that decision lying down. That they will continue to go to the borders. They'll
continue this protest all up to the day when the embassy is supposed to officially move to Jerusalem, and they say they want the world to know,
want the world to hear their cause.
And so partly that's why we're seeing this uptick in violence, uptick in demonstrations, but also, this is a show of force by Hamas as well. That
they were able to galvanize this many people to the border to protest.
At a time when Hamas is feeling isolated by not only the Palestinian Authority which is based in the west bank but also by the international
community. This is Hamas saying that we are still here, we are still relevant, and we can move the people in the Gaza strip.
CURNOW: And as you say this just the first day in Gaza city. Thank you.
Now Russia is flexing both its military and diplomatic muscles as it responds to an escalating crisis with the west triggered by the poisoning
of a spy in the U.K. Now Russia conducted its second test of a new intercontinental ballistic missile nicknamed "Satan 2."
And if sounds scary, it's because it is. Vladimir Putin has claimed the weapon is virtually invincible. Now, this comes as more diplomats were
kicked out of Moscow today. Russia's Foreign Ministry is retaliating against expulsions by Britain, the U.S. and their allies.
Let's bring in our team following the latest developments. Phil Black is in Moscow. Elise Labott is in Washington. Good to see you both. Phil, to
you first, the Russians, think it was the embassy in the U.K., just tweeted a list of the ambassadors that are being summoned just today. Which
countries got slapped on the wrist? One by one they were called in.
PHIL BLACK, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Robyn, the list has been going through the day. We've been trying to keep track of it as
they have filed into the Foreign Ministry building here in Moscow. It looks that it's now around the 20 mark, certainly.
As Russia promised to do, it has responded in kind to pretty much all of them with the exception of Hungary, Georgia, Belgium, and Montenegro.
These are four countries that each expelled one Russian diplomat or suspected intelligence agent.
In those cases, Russia is saying that it reserves the right to take action at them at some point down the track. It isn't doing so now. Russia seems
to have moved through all the European countries, Canada and Australia as well.
So, a busy day at the Foreign Ministry, and just to add quickly, they've still found a time to put out a message a short time ago warning, really,
criticizing American intelligence agencies for apparently trying to, in its words, really, recruit the Russian diplomats that are getting ready to
leave the United States.
It says that they have been approached, harassed is the word that it uses, in order to enter relationships of mutual benefit. Russia says it's
distasteful, cynical, and it wants it to stop -- Robyn.
CURNOW: OK. That's interesting. Elise, to you. We might get back to the diplomacy in just a moment, but let's talk about "Satan 2," which I must
say that's quite a nickname, but NATO calls that same missile "snowflake." So, either way, there's a lot of hype around this. Is this all kremlin
hype or is this specifically dangerous a weapon, a new type of weapon?
ELISE LABOTT, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, I think ultimately it will be a dangerous weapon. This is a new advanced
intercontinental ballistic missile, but it's a relatively new prototype of what the Russians are developing. We understand it's probably in the early
stages of development.
And so, while the kremlin is certainly hyping it up, it's called the Satan, it certainly seems very scary. My understanding is that the Russian
Ministry of Defense kind of said in a statement earlier today calling this kind of a smaller launch and saying that it didn't require.
The whole question is does this require notification to the U.S. of the Star Treaty, which, you know, is required if there's a new intercontinental
ballistic missile. So, I think ultimately it will be a very advance and dangerous weapon, but right now, I think it's a prototype in the early
stages.
CURNOW: And back to you in Moscow, Phil. L mean, basically a lot of these diplomats or spies or whatever they were under diplomatic cover were
declared persona non-grata. Now, I understand the diplomatic circles that, you know, that's actually a verb. You get PSG'd or something.
[15:10:05] So, what happens next to all these diplomat, particularly the ones that have to leave Russia?
BLACK: They're going to get out, Robyn. Basically, the protocol seems to be they are given a week. That's what the United States diplomats were
told yesterday, one week to get out. You're going to see a lot of outward bound flights filled with diplomats over the coming week or so.
Interestingly, though, a much tighter time frame was given to the closure of the U.S. consulate in St. Petersburg. That has to be closed by
tomorrow.
CURNOW: OK. That's interesting. And Elise, you worked in the State Department. You speak to a lot of these diplomats. What's your sense
about how this has played out and is this the end or do you see even with the launch of this missile, that this is going to potentially get -- become
more escalated?
LABOTT: Well, look, I mean, I think when you see with things like that and you saw this in 2016, the kind of tit for tat that we've been talking about
when the U.S. expelled diplomats as a result of what they called Russian medaling in the election, then ultimately several months later the Russians
expelled this PNG'd thus we are saying reciprocity, a similar amount of U.S. diplomats from Russia.
So, I think what you're going to see is no one has an appetite for this to escalate with the expulsion of diplomats. They both, you know, expelled
their equal amount of diplomats. I think that will be it.
But this Salisbury attack that kind of precipitated the whole thing, this use of a nerve agent is what the U.K. and the U.S. and the Europeans are
accusing Russia of being behind. This is a very serious incident, and neither the U.S. nor the Europeans are ruling out further measures. They
may not be expulsions. They may be looking at intelligence, cyber propaganda, use of chemical weapons --
CURNOW: Financial?
LABOTT: Financial. I don't think this is necessarily the end of measures against Russia. I think it could be the end of expulsions of diplomats.
CURNOW: Yes. And I think that's the thing in many ways. Many asking whether this diplomatic pushout is phase one of what is potentially a more
cohesive strategy, whether it involves freezing oligarchs money or, you know, banking systems and that sort of thing. So, I get a sense we might
be talking more. Phil, Elise, thanks to you both.
A little bit earlier, I spoke to former U.S. ambassador to Russia, Thomas Pickering, and got his take on this ongoing diplomatic tit for tat, and
this is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS PICKERING, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: The rules are if you're called in, you go, and if you get told that somebody is persona non-
grata, you accept that, and the retaliation is back in your own capital where they call in the other ambassador and send somebody home.
But this can go on only as long as there are diplomats available to push out. We may be running low given the fact at what happened a year or two
ago in terms of limited numbers and finite limits. I understand that the Russians have put a finite limit on U.K. diplomats as well.
So, if that isn't working, but keeps on going, we aren't getting anywhere. The really interesting question here is when is somebody going to wake up
quietly and say, maybe there's a way through?
Now is Lavrov's invitation to go to Holland and debate this before the OPCW any indication of that? Is the Russian absolute numbers of reciprocity an
indication that this may be a time to stop? I can't tell you that.
In the U.S., it's very difficult to predict what President Trump will do, but it is an opportunity, if I could put it that way, for people to say
let's see if we can end assassinations. Assassinations are not part of international copy book, and even --
CURNOW: But they have been going on.
PICKERING: They have been, and apparently, there are 14 cases in the United Kingdom. Now, we all wait for you to investigate those and to see
what the data are, but at this stage, one wonders how long can this go? It's been a domestic political preoccupation of the Russians with people
inside Russia. Do we allow them to export this? No.
We have to be very careful here to make sure, in fact, that message gets through as clearly as we can make it without taking it so far that in the
end a back down seems worse that it might now in terms of leveling off the question of no more assassinations in my country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: OK. So, that was me a little bit earlier speaking with the former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, Thomas Pickering. Fascinating insight there
from him.
Now a little health check here as tension racks up on a global scale. The father and daughter who were poisoned continue to fight for their lives.
But while Sergei Skripal is still in a critical condition, his daughter, Yulia's health has improved dramatically in the past few days. That's good
news.
Melissa Bell has the latest on the not facts of the case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:15:03] MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's taken nearly a month, but Yulia's Skripal's condition according to
medical authorities in Salisbury is improving and no longer critical. The 33-year-old was found poisoned next to her father, Sergei on a bench in
Salisbury Town Center on March 4th.
Nearly a month on Sergei Skripal's house is now at the center of the investigation. Police say it is on its door that the highest concentration
of the nerve agent used in the poisoning was found.
Earlier this week, Theresa May had been more pessimistic about the Skripal's chances of recovery.
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Sergei and Yulia Skripal remain critically ill in hospital. Late last week doctors indicated that their
condition is unlikely to change in the near future, and they may never recover fully.
BELL: The improvement in Yulia's condition was welcomed by Russia's embassy in London, which demanded in a tweet once again to be given access
to her as a Russian citizen. Moscow has denied any involvement in the poisoning.
Sergey Lavrov on Thursday announced Moscow's retaliatory measures to the expulsion by the United States of 60 Russian diplomats.
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): They include the expulsion of a similar number of diplomats and our decision to withdraw
consent to the functioning of the consulate general in St. Petersburg.
BELL: Even as the Skripal's poisoning continues to reverberate diplomatically, it's unclear whether Yulia's recovery is such that she even
aware of the international storm that surrounds here. Melissa Bell, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Thanks to Melissa for that update.
Now still to come here on CNN, the head of the U.K. opposition party is forced yet again to make amends to the Jewish community. Why Jeremy Corbyn
can't escape claims of his party's anti-Semitism.
And later, a prominent Fox News host is paying the price for mocking one of the survivors of a school shooting in Florida.
And this, of course, is Good Friday, one of the holiest days in the year for Christians around the world. These are pictures from Rome live at the
coliseum where the pope is now ahead of a reenactment of Christ's crucifixion. Stay with CNN.
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CURNOW: It is 19 minutes past the hour. I'm Robyn Curnow sitting in for Hala Gorani tonight. Now, the leader of the U.K. position party has
admitted there is a need to do much better when it comes to tackling antisemitism.
That admission follows a week that has gone from bad to worse for Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, after hundreds demonstrated against the party on
Monday. Now, 39 Labour MPs are calling for Mr. Corbyn to suspend a key ally who is accused of defending a candidate who denied the holocaust.
Salma Abdelaziz joins us now from London. Hi, Salma. Tell us more.
[15:20:10] SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Robyn. The Labour Party has long been embroiled in a scandal about anti-Semitism. So much so
that in 2016, an internal review was ordered. But here we are two years later and once again these issues have resurfaced. And Jeremy Corbyn is at
the head of these accusations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): An unprecedented revolt within the U.K.'s main opposition party, 39 Labour politicians have published an open letter
calling for the suspension of Christine Shawcroft after she expressed support for a local Labour candidate who had shared messages on social
media denying the Holocaust.
Shawcroft quit as head of the party's disputes panel earlier this week, but Shibhain McDonagh (ph), a Labour MP and lead signatory of the letter said
it wasn't enough.
SHIBHAIN MCDONAGH, BRITISH LABOUR MP: I think she should be considered by the complaints committee for supporting somebody who questions the worse
holocaust, the worst genocide of the 20th Century. I mean, this is not small stuff.
ABDELAZIZ: Last week the Labour leader was accused of prejudice after it emerged he had opposed the removal of an anti-Semitic mural in London in
2012. The reports, the latest in a series of scandals dating as far back as 2016 outraged Jewish leaders and sparked demonstrations in front of
parliament. On the first day of the Jewish holiday of Passover, Corbyn vowed to combat the rise of anti-Semitism within his own ranks.
JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY LEADER: It's sometimes hard to see it when it's close to home. We in the Labour movement will never be
complacent about anti-Semitism. We all need to do better. I'm committed to ensuring the Labour Party is a welcoming and secure place for Jewish
people.
ABDELAZIZ: The issue of anti-Semitism has dogged Corbyn since he unexpectedly took over the Labour Party leadership two and a half years
ago. He's called Hamas and Hezbollah friends in the past and was criticized for defending former London mayor who suggested Hitler was a
supporter of Zionism.
The party leader has repeatedly apologized in the last several days, but for some it's too little too late. With anti-Jewish sentiment on the rise
in Europe, many fear this once fringe politician now holds a front row seat in British politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ABDELAZIZ: You can see there, Jeremy Corbyn trying to reassure not just the members of his own party, but the British public as a whole. He goes
onto say in that video message in the fight against anti-Semitism, I am your ally.
But the concern for critics is that Jeremy Corbyn isn't taking this seriously enough. The party leader has been dogged with these criticisms
for over two years now and for his supporters who are called "Corbynistas" here in the U.K., he's sort of become a collative personality.
One that's really risen after Brexit and really did well in the polls last year. The question is, is he going to take this seriously enough? And
what concrete actions can he take to fight this rise in anti-Semitism -- Robyn.
CURNOW: Yes. Thanks so much. Excellent points there, Salma. Great reporting. Thank you so much.
I want to turn now to the U.S., and the widow of the gunman responsible for a massacre at a Florida nightclub in 2016 has been found not guilty on both
counts against her. Now 31-year-old Noor Salman (ph) was acquitted of providing material support to a foreign terror organization and obstruction
of justice. Now Salman was arrested months after her husband killed 49 people and wounded more than 50 others at the Pulse, a gay bar and dance
club in Orlando.
Now Fox News host, Laura Ingraham has apologized after mocking a survivor of the Florida Parkland shooting on social media. Now the scandal has
triggered an exodus of advertisers from her program in the U.S. Randi Kaye has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Laura Ingraham took aim, then fired off this tweet, "David Hogg rejected by four colleges to which he
applied and whines about it." Ingraham's tweet linked to a story from a conservative news site, which described Hogg, a survivor of the Parkland
shooting as gun rights provocateur.
Now that was Wednesday morning. By Thursday afternoon, another tweet in a wildly different tone from the Fox News host, apologizing in the spirit of
Holy Week to the brave victims of Parkland. Why the about face? Because Hogg, who has a 4.2 GPA had been tweeting too calling for advertisers to
boycott Ingraham's Fox News show. At least three brands now promising to cut ties with Ingraham.
[15:25:10] (on camera): After Ingraham apologized, Hogg tweeted he would only accept her apology if she denounced how her network has treated
Parkland survivors. No response from Ingraham. Hogg also took heat from right-wing media like Breitbart and Info Wars after his speech at the March
for our Lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we will change the world.
KAYE (voice-over): That image let Hogg's critics on the right to falsely suggest it was a Nazi salute. Info Wars actually edited in Hitler's voice
over Hogg. But Hogg wasn't the only student targeted by conspiracy theorists.
EMMA GONZALEZ, PARKLAND SCHOOL SURVIVOR: In a little over six minutes, 17 of our friends were taken from us.
KAYE: Parkland survivor, Emma Gonzalez, took heat from the right about the Cuban flag patch sewn onto her jacket at the March for our Fives. It
represented her Cuban heritage. Congressman Steve King, a Republican from Iowa posting on Facebook, "Your ancestors fled the island when the
dictatorship turned Cuba into a prison camp after removing all weapons from its citizens. Hence, their right to self-defense."
Gonzalez was also accused of ripping apart the Constitution. Turns out the fake image was made from a picture of her in "Teen Vogue" in which she
ripped up a paper for target practice. It was promoted on Gab, the alt- right alternative to Twitter.
And the hits keep coming. The conservative blog "Red State" questioned openly whether or not David Hogg had even been at school the day of the
shooting. Even though this video of him hiding inside a closet at the time of the shooting had been widely available.
Later, the writer admitted her story was incorrect. And an aide to a Republican Florida legislator suggested Hogg and others weren't actually
students but crisis actors.
DAVID HOGG, PARKLAND SCHOOL SURVIVOR: I'm not a crisis actor. I had to witness this and live through this.
KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Just kids, teenagers still. Thanks to Randi for that report.
Now, coming up here on CNN, the sexual assault allegations emerging against a top U.N. official. CNN's exclusive interview with an accuser who
describes what she says what happened to her. That's next.
Also, a leaked memo from a top executive has Facebook scrambling. How Mark Zuckerberg is responding to tough questions on its use of data.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: The United Nations dedicates much of it work to uplifting the world's vulnerable, but with all the good comes some problems. Here's one,
an employee at the U.N.'s anti-AIDS program is going public with her allegation that a top official sexually assaulted and repeatedly harassed
her.
[15:30:00] He denies the charges and an investigation found that her claims were unsubstantiated. But in an exclusive interview with Christiane
Amanpour, Martina Brostrom says the process was woefully flawed. Here's Christiane.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The United Nations has its #MeToo moment. For the first time a policy analyst at the
U.N.'s AIDS program is coming forward publicly to tell her story of alleged assault by an assistant secretary general. And what Martina Brostrom calls
the flawed process that exonerated him. Her alleged assailant, Luiz Loures.
MARTINA BROSTROM, POLICY ANALYST, UNAIDS: I'm pushed towards the wall. He starts shoving his tongue into my mouth trying to kiss me, and he's groping
my body, including my breasts. The elevator doors opens and he tries to forcefully pull me out of the elevator, dragged me towards the corridor of
his room.
AMANPOUR: And how did you manage not to be dragged out? I mean, you're quite little. You're very petite.
BROSTROM: I was holding on to the elevator and I was pleading with him and I was just bracing with all that I could just to never leave the elevator
and that's how I escaped.
AMANPOUR: CNN spoke with two other women who say Loures assaulted them in very similar ways. We asked Loures about this and offered him an on camera
interview. He denied Brostrom's allegations saying in a statement that he cooperated fully with the 14-month investigation into those allegations
that found the claims were unsubstantiated. He said that you spoke to him about sexual matters, your sexual preferences.
BROSTROM: Yes, that's absolutely incorrect.
AMANPOUR: Loures also denied to CNN claims of assault by a second woman, Malayah Harper, a third woman has asked for anonymity because she's still
inside the U.N. system. Loures is leaving the U.N. at the end of his contract this week.
STEPHANE DUJARRIC, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL ANTONIO GUTERRES: Mr. Loures made that decision, and it's not for me to
analyze the motivation of his decision.
AMANPOUR: An audio obtained by CNN, Michel Sidibe praised Loures, his outgoing deputy at an internal staff meeting.
MICHEL SIDIBE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF UNAIDS: The talk of a high road so UNIADS could move on. I thank him for this courageous decision.
AMANPOUR: Part of the reason Brostrom thinks the internal inquiry was so flawed, she says it was right with conflicts of interest and accuses the
head of UNAIDS of interfering.
BROSTROM: He tried to broker the apology. After that, he tried to bribe me with a promotion.
AMANPOUR: UNAIDS told CNN that's not true. Its executive director Michel Sidibe didn't offer a promotion. He also recused himself and was not
involved in the outcome of the investigation. And they said that while the inquiry followed due process, Brostrom can appeal. A spokesman for the
attorney general Antonio Guterres said that he had asked Sidibe and other U.N. leaders to, quote, lead by example. Guterres is putting in place new
ways to report harassment and the spokesman said, it's his personal commitment to get rid of it.
BROSTROM: It is the boy's club.
AMANPOUR: How has it affected you emotionally, physically? I mean, you're still employed by the UN?
BROSTROM: Yes. I am on sick leave for a year now. I have been diagnosed by post-traumatic stress disorder. My dream job turned into a nightmare.
AMANPOUR: Christiane Amanpour, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Thanks, Christiane. Important story there.
Now, the data firm, Cambridge Analytica is pushing back against allegations that it misused the data from millions of Facebook users, you and me, to
influence elections. But the U.S. is not the only country whose politicians hired the firm to target voters. Farai Sevenzo reports from
Kenya's capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nairobi. Thousands of miles away from the offices of Cambridge Analytica. When the political consultancy firm
revealed an undercover news scene that Kenya's current president was a client, the managing director claimed. The Kenyatta campaign which they
ran in 2013 and 2017 for Kenya. We have rebranded the entire party twice, written the manifesto, done research, analysis, messaging. I think we
wrote all the speeches and we staged the whole thing. So just about every element of this candidate.
These are polarizing accusations, full of animosity and questions are being raised now over how big Cambridge Analytica's reach was.
Kenyans are painfully aware of the dangers of negative campaigning given the history of violent elections in this country. And of course, they want
to know what it is Cambridge Analytica did for their government and what impact it had on Kenyan democracy. Have you heard of Cambridge Analytica?
[15:35:14] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I have. Those are the guys who manipulated the -- in a way, manipulated the elections.
SEVENZO: You think they gave the Kenyatta the fair advantage?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know if there is substance to that story. But if there is, then it's unfortunate.
JAMES ORENGO, NASA PARTY SENATOR: It puts us a lot into question. The whole electoral infrastructure in relation to the elections which are held
last year. It must be fully audited. I think we'll see the footprints of Cambridge Analytica.
SEVENZO: Images of Kenya's prisons appear on Cambridge Analytica's website. As well as on that of parent company SCL where these images have
since been removed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's not absolve Kenyan politicians of their role in this. Because Cambridge Analytica didn't pay themselves. Mostly the
foreign company to come to Kenya.
SEVENZO: This video made appeared on social media. It made astounding claims about the opposition leader.
RAILA ODINGA, KENYAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Whenever you try to Google Kenya, the first greeting was Raila, and all that trash about me.
SEVENZO: And do you think it contributed to ethnic tensions in this country?
ODINGA: Certainly, and lost a lot of lives. I think very many innocent people lost their lives as a result of that negative, ugly campaign.
(INAUDIBLE) Cambridge Analytica. Somebody need to take responsibility for this.
SEVENZO: We arrived at the present Kenyatta's party headquarters to try to find some answers.
RAPHAEL TUJU, JUBILEE PARTY SECRETARY GENERAL: We had them to do analysis or focus group discussion, focus group discussion results because they did
have that expertise. They did demonstrated us that they have that expertise. And that was it.
SEVENZO: And that was it? No sort of strategy to be completely negative about the opposition?
TUJU: No.
SEVENZO: And you're aware all these videos that we are on in 2017 --
TUJU: We had no idea. We saw them, some of them were sent to us.
SEVENZO: Now, it's possible that in this investigation there's going to be a massive paper trail that leads right here. To Jubilee headquarters.
What would you say to people or worried about that?
TUJU: It doesn't bother me. Because in our engagement with SCL, which you say is related to Cambridge Analytica, and our engagement, at no time did
we ask them to do any kind of data mining.
SEVENZO: Why don't you want to find out who they are and who their parent companies?
TUJU: No, it's not necessary. It's not my business to find out who else are your business associates. Is it?
SEVENZO: But if it's business associates have terrible reputation, a in terms of negative campaigning, would you have hired them again in 2022?
TUJU: No, I would not. And I would not so much because of the reputation. I would not because I don't have time to be dealing with all these side
issues. I have to deal with my core business, and my core business is to run a campaign and win an election.
SEVENZO: The fallout of a Cambridge Analytica's tactics is far from over from this east African nation. And time will tell where the Kenyans get
the answers they're looking for.
Farai Sevenzo, CNN, Nairobi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: And Cambridge Analytica has denied any accusations of wrong doing. The company has suspended its chief executive since the undercover report
ad.
Now, as pressure mounts on Facebook to make changes to how its data is used, a leaked memo is adding fuel to that fire. Now, the message from a
top executive was shared with BuzzFeed news. It says the company shouldn't worry if its tools hurt users or even take a life as long as Facebook
sticks to its mission of, quote, connecting people. CEO Mark Zuckerberg says he strongly disagrees with the memo. An executive behind the memo
says he wrote it to provoke a debate.
Dylan Byers joins us now from Los Angeles. Dylan, let's pick apart this memo, because it's quite astounding in many ways. What exactly is in it?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Well, it is an astounding memo. And it's the more astounding for the fact that it comes from Andrew
Bosworth who really is one of the core members of the Facebook leadership team and has been with the company for quite some time. What he says there
is that aggressive growth, bringing in re and more users is the north star of what this company is doing and what its efforts should be. And at all
costs.
So even if it exposes somebody to bullies, even if somebody ends up getting killed in a terror attack, Facebook should still pursue that aggressive
growth. And he also says in that memo that the questionable practices they have about collecting user data and about linking more and more people up
so that there's more and more data to harvest, all of that is defensible because Facebook believes, at least according to Bosworth in this memo,
Facebook believes that connecting the world, bringing the world together is an ultimate de facto good and that, therefore, no wrong can be done on the
way toward achieving that end.
[15:40:30] Obviously in the wake of Cambridge Analytica, in the wake of all the scandals that Facebook has face, and in the wake of the crisis of trust
that the company is facing about how it handles our data, this looks terrible. I mean, this looks really bad. And it suggests that, A, the
company was aware two years ago that it had questionable data collecting practices, and, B, that it was wrestling with this inside the company.
Now, Bosworth says now that he didn't mean what he wrote in that memo when he wrote it and he doesn't certainly doesn't feel that way today that he
had just written it to provoke a conversation. It is very hard for people to believe that because it confirms all of our worst fears about Facebook.
CURNOW: I mean, I think that's the point. Because you read this, and you say --they're basically saying, hey, as long as we're all connected, it
doesn't matter if you're bullied or there's a terror attack. So this response said, hey, this was just an internal debate, a bit of devil's
advocate. I mean, you're like, like really? Is that your response in the midst of all this? That's what they come up with?
BYERS: It's very hard to believe. And, look, Bosworth is known as somebody inside of the company who is very blunt and has sort of a very
outspoken opinion on thing. He really loves this idea of sort of rallying the troops.
And look, the argument he's making here is that things, good things will happen because of Facebook. People might find new friends. People might
get connected. People might establish new relationships. Bad things will happen because of Facebook, because the world is inherently a place where
both good and bad things happen. I think what's so troubling to people is that callousness, is that disregard for the impact that Facebook can have
on the world. The sense that Facebook shouldn't bear any responsibility, and really, that is one of the core problems that Facebook is facing right
now. They don't want to take responsibility for what their platform does and the influence that their platform has on the world. They want to keep
their hands clean and basically say, we're just a platform for humanity to use. What humanity does with that is up to them.
CURNOW: And I think the importance with this debate and certainly after the U.S. election, I mean, there are probes as to whether Facebook helped
influence the election one way or the other. And these are very serious questions about social media and democracy. So this is not just about
bullying as well. These are very, very important questions. So this response seems interesting, to say the least. But what does Wall Street
want? Because that's what Wall Street wants. Is there going to be some turning of the business model here or is that unlikely here?
BYERS: well, look, it's a very good question. And part of the problem again is that this issue of data collection that Facebook does and that
it's in so much trouble for right now, that is intrinsic to their business model and you see that in the memo what they do is they try to grow the
business, bring in as many users around the world. They now have more than two billion users around the world and mine that data and share it with
third parties so they can provide this free platform.
Wall Street's demands for Facebook to sort of clean up and save the business from losing subscribers, it's very hard to see how Facebook can
effectively do that or at least convince people that it's trustworthy enough to do that in light of all these controversies, in light of the fact
that every time Facebook drags its feet and then finally comes forward with an apology, a claim that it's going to try to do better, another --
something else comes out, and the memo is only the latest thing to come out.
If I'm Facebook, I'm worried that there are going to be more and more leaks showcasing Facebook as a place that doesn't really care about its impact on
society for weeks and perhaps months to come.
CURNOW: Yes, and also setting up a possibilities of very tough questions for Mark Zuckerberg when he sits before the Congress. Dylan Byers --
BYERS: That's right, which is just a matter of weeks away.
CURNOW: It is, and we're going to be following that one.
Dylan Byers, always good to speak to you. Thank you so much coming to us for today
So still to come on tonight's program, why you could see fireballs flying across they this weekend, but don't panic. We have a former astronaut to
break down what's happening, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:45:36] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, four, three, two, one.
CURNOW: There we go. A successful take off for SpaceX though. Created a minor disaster today. The nose cone of this rocket you're seeing was
supposed to fall gently into seaboard net. Unfortunately, the cone's power foils that should have slowed, it's got tangled up. Now, SpaceX's CEO,
Elon Musk said that when it hit the water at high speed it likely destroy it, and this is going to cost Mr. Musk, of course, $6 million.
OK. So let's leave earth behind for now. Not for long, to take a look at Tiangong-1, the Chinese space station known as the "Heavenly Palace."
After more than six long years at work, it's going out in a blaze of glory over the weekend as it crashes into the earth's atmosphere. But don't
worry too much that you'll be a target. Scientists say the odds of being hit by debris is one in a trillion.
So joining me now is someone with unique perspective, astronaut Leroy Chiao, knows firsthand what it's like to come back down to earth. He joins
us from Houston, of course, in Texas.
So we understand -- the chances of being hit of one of these pieces of space debris landing in your garden are (INAUDIBLE) you have a better
chance of being hit by lightning twice. Why is that? Because this is not being controlled.
LEROY CHIAO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: That's correct. And the reason is, first of all, this is not a very big spacecraft and so it will likely all
burn up in the atmosphere on its way down, and it's likely that no pieces will survive the entry. Now, on the off chance a few of the bigger pieces
which been reduced to smaller pieces do survive the entry and do hit the earth, they will likely impact the ocean somewhere because most of the
earth's surface is covered by oceans. And then if it does come down on land, well then, if you look at the distribution of land, the percentage of
land that is uninhabited, that's how you get to this number that it's basically exceedingly small chance a person or something significant being
hit by a piece of debris.
CURNOW: OK. And as you were talking, we were kind of showing the band around the globe of where it could possibly land if anything makes it
through. This is fascinating. It's been an interesting story not just watching this come down, but also its story about how it got up there and
what it was doing up there. It's all about China's very ambitious space program.
CHIAO: That's right. Tiangong-1 was their first space lab. You can think of it as kind of a mini space station. And it was caught up and so they
could do a rendezvous and docking operations, basically practice and perfect their rendezvous and docking techniques that is to launch the
spacecraft that can come and dock to the Tiangong. They did fly three crews to the -- I'm sorry, two crews to Tiangong-1 and they demonstrated
that they could live in Tiangong-1 for several weeks at a time. They conduct experiment operations and they can go manually and automatically
dock, undock, and re-dock to it. Those are critical skills necessary if you're going to be operating the space station. And so this is all
building up.
There's a Tiangong-2 in orbit now that is -- had missions flown to it. And this is building up to them launching the first element of their space
station which will be the core module be the same class as that that began with the international space station. And so that will be launched
somewhere probably close to 2020 thereabouts.
[15:50:11] CURNOW: OK. So as we're talking about sort of the future of the space race and also the privatization of space is one focus of SpaceX.
We watched a very successful launch take off today. Now, the nose apparently didn't to what Elon Musk wanted it to do. Because essentially,
he wanted to recycle these. Doesn't he?
CHIAO: That's right. The payload fairing is actually a pretty expensive piece of the launch. And so what Elon is trying to do is recover and reuse
as much as he can. And you've seen he successfully recovered a number of Falcon 9 first stages including when he launched the Falcon Heavy just very
recently. You saw the two outer stages which are actually recycled Falcon 9 core stages. So they are making their second flight on this stock and
heavy flight. They came back and touched down in formation back at the kicks, and so that's going to be cutting launch costs dramatically.
Another step would be to recover this payload fairing, which is always been thrown away. This has been the first attempt by anyone to salvage the
payload fairing. So the fact that it didn't work doesn't mean you should give up. Any time you're trying something new, and developing something
new, you're going to have failures, and that's how you learn and that's how you're ultimately become successful. So I wouldn't certain, wouldn't let
this get anyone down. I think they'll get there.
CURNOW: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, that's the whole point of the space race in many ways is try, try, and try again. And it's men like you and
Mr. Musk who have got us to where we are. So thanks a lot. Enjoy your weekend. Thanks so much, Leroy Chiao.
CHIAO: Thank you.
CURNOW: So I do want to bring you a quick update now on our top story. The protests in Gaza that turned deadly. The U.N. Security Council will
meet tonight. These are formal consultations scheduled to take place about three hours from now. As we told you at the top of the hour, at this
moment at least 15 Palestinians are now confirmed dead in these protests, and nearly one and a half thousand people have been wounded.
More to come here on CNN including how Pope Francis is marking the Christian holy day of Good Friday. These live pictures from Rome. This is
a procession of the station of the cross. The pope is there. We'll have a live report from Rome too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: Live pictures here from Rome. That is the pope. Solemn day. In fact, the most solemn day in the Christian calendar. It is Good Friday
today, and this is a reenactment of the Stations of the Cross actually taking place in the coliseum in Rome. Of course, this is the day that
Christians around the globe are commemorating the day they believe Jesus was crucified before resurrecting three days later in what is known as
Easter Sunday.
Earlier we know the pope led the passion of the lord celebration at the Vatican.
Well, John Allen joins us now. He's the editor of the website senior Vatican analyst for us. John, you're in Rome. This is a very solemn
moment. The pope has also been doing a number of events, processions throughout the day.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, that's right. The two corner stone moments, Robyn, as you mentioned were the liturgy. Not the mass of
the lord's passion. This is actually the only day in the calendar that mass cannot be celebrated, because mass is a celebration, and perhaps like
this is not a day for celebration. It's a day for commemoration, for prayer, for introspection.
And as you see right now, the pope is wrapping up the Via Crucis, the way of the cross procession. Every year on Good Friday the pope travels across
Rome to the roman coliseum, the site that is kind of iconically associated in the Christian imagination with the persecution of the early church. To
enter into the sort of spirit of penance. This year, there's a special emphasis on youth at the Via Crucis. The pope asked a group of 14 young
people, including a number of high school students at a local high school in Rome to prepare the prayers and the meditations. This is all in
preparation for a major summit on youth. Some of the bishops around the world, the pope is going to call has set for October, Robyn. So Pope
Francis always a very active pope, once again even in this supremely holy moment, it's not taking his foot off the gas.
CURNO: No, he never does, does he? Just talk us through -- I don't know if you can see these images. But it seems like it's silent. This is
around the coliseum. It's in the center of Rome. It's a Friday evening. And there is this very solemn procession. This is a pope who certainly
takes to heart the very essence of the story.
[15:55:54] ALLEN: Yes, that's right. We -- in his own prayers for tonight, Pope Francis talks about shame and repentance. Shame for a sinful
world in which so many people are marginalized, forgotten, abused. He talks about immigrants and others and then he talks about the importance of
the spirit of repentance. He actually praise God that he will give us the grace of what the pope calls holy repentance.
And clearly, this is a pope who carries in his heart the suffering of a broken world, and in moments like this you clearly see that, Robyn.
CURNOW: Yes. There's a universality to his message. Whether you believe or not, whether you're Christian or not, that holds true for all humanity.
That's it on this day there's also been a little bit of criticism of this pope because there's been a bit of discussion about whether or now he
believes in hell.
ALLEN: Yes, Robyn. What this comes from is a conversation. What the Vatican describes as a private conversation, not an interview, that he had
with a 93-year-old Italian journalist, Eugenio Scalfari, kind of a legend around here. This is not the first time this has happened. Every time you
get an alleged Papal bomb shell, every time the Vatican denies he actually said it. In this case, the alleged bomb shell was that the said hell does
not exist. The Vatican has firmly said that's not the case.
CURNOW: OK. Well, this is the pope. A special day, solemn day this evening in Rome. Thanks you so much, John Allen.
I'm Robyn Curnow. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
