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Hala Gorani Tonight
Pompeo: U.S. Will "Crush" Iran With Economic Pressure; Rouhani Says World Doesn't Accept America's Logic; Trump Meeting With FBI Chief Deputy AG; U.S. And China Put Trade War On Hold; Russian Oligarch Waiting To Re- Enter U.K.; New Ash Plume, "Laze" Raise Concerns In Hawaii. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 21, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:18]
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from the CNN Center, I'm Lynda Kinkade sitting in for Hala Gorani.
Tonight, the Trump administration on the offensive. The president attacks his own Justice Department and the FBI as his top diplomat threatens to
crush Iran.
Also, a potentially big shift as Pope Francis reportedly tells a gay man, God made you like that and loved you like that.
And it was the service that wowed and surprised the world. I speak to the conductor of the royal wedding gospel choir who performed on the big day.
Well, Donald Trump and his administration are on the offensive beginning the new week with battles on several fronts. The White House is turning up
the heat on Iran with the new secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, threatening to crash Tehran economically if it doesn't make some changes.
Closer to home, the president wants to investigate the investigators. This hour he is expected to meet with officials after he claimed the FBI spied
on his campaign. But when it comes to China, tensions are actually easing at least for the moment. There's a truce in the trade war.
We have a lot to get to. Let's start first with Iran firing back against the administration. The Iranian president is reportedly asking who the
U.S. is to make decisions about his country.
CNN's Sam Kiley is in Abu Dhabi and our Michelle Kosinski is watching things from Washington. I want to go first to Michelle. Given that we saw
this major threat from the new U.S. secretary of state today vowing to crush Iran both with sanctions but also military might. Let's just take a
listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We will ensure freedom of navigation on the waters in the region. We will work to prevent and counteract any
Iranian cyber activity. We will track down Iranian operatives and their Hezbollah proxies operating around the world and we will crush them. Iran
will never again have (inaudible) blanch to dominate the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Michelle, this is Mike Pompeo's first major policy address. He certainly came out swinging.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, he used the word crushed multiple times. Words like sting and pain. He wanted to come
out and lay it on the line. This is the United States as tough new approach. But look at the position the U.S. is in right now.
It's ripped up a deal that it only made a couple of years ago, infuriating Iran, and seriously angering the U.S.' own closest allies. So, it needs to
start from a tough position and try to get Iran to go along with this.
The thing is that when you put it all out there and make this list of 12 absolute demands to start negotiations from, which is what you would do
anyway, now that they are out there, it's going to be really hard to go back on any of them.
I mean, when you demand, for example, that Iran cannot fund the Houthi rebels in Yemen or cannot enrich any uranium, you know -- first of all, how
are you going to get Iran to go along with this right off the bat?
And if you are going to negotiate, how then are you going to go back later and say, OK, you can enrich some uranium, or you can support some Houthi
rebels? You know, you can't really go back on this anymore.
So, it seems like the U.S. wants to rely on these strict sanctions regime that it's proposing. But as the Europeans point out who are not at all on
board with this plan, now that you have Europeans wanting to continue trading with Iran, protecting their businesses from U.S. sanctions, helping
Iran Central Bank, plus you have Russia and China trading with Iran, how are these sanctions really going to have any bite?
KINKADE: Absolutely. I want to go to Sam. For some of the Iranian reaction. We know the Iranian moderate government of Rouhani wants to stay
in the current Iran deal and work with its European partners. What's the reaction from Iran?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, government officials have been saying -- been very dismissive of the
approach taken by Donald Trump's administration as now delivered by Mr. Pompeo. Particularly Rouhani, the president saying that he was once a spy
chief and now who is he to start dictating to independent sovereign nations.
And I think what he is saying there is not just Iran, but there is an element there where the Iranians can exploit frictions between the
Europeans and the United States. Remember, that the United States has repeatedly said since it came out -- said it was coming out of this Iran
nuclear agreement that it would, if you like, attack legally any European countries that did do business in Iran.
[15:05:13] That was a sort of threat that was repeated again by Mr. Pompeo. Therefore, I think, the Iranians are saying, let's not let the Americans
dictate not only to us, the Iranians, but also America's own allies, perhaps hoping from the Iranian perspective that they may become former
allies.
There's a great deal of difference, of course, between the two. But nonetheless, as Michelle rightly points out, there's a lot of friction now
between the Europeans, who are also at pains to point out, this isn't just about European business with Iran, it's about a policy of bringing the
Iranians in from the cold, of giving the moderates like Rouhani a leg up in their reform process that could perhaps be prompted or stimulated by
economic growth.
Now a lot of that economic growth has not been seen partly because of concerns over existing American sanctions, particularly on the banking
sector. But nonetheless, there was hope.
Now, of course, the Iranians in the moderate camps will try to defend their position against the hardliners, particularly in the Revolutionary Guard
core, who are very aggressively anti this nuclear deal as much as Donald Trump is.
And can be expected now to get on the front -- I think more internationally in terms of those very destabilizing campaigns that they have been
conducting that the Americans and the Israelis, of course, are particularly anxious about.
KINKADE: And of course, Sam, the secretary of state seemed to directly appeal to Iranians to almost rise up and protest and wanting to see some
sort of regime change. Is that at all likely? Are we likely to see Iranians on the street protesting against their regime?
KILEY: Well, there have been a lot of Iranian protests as we have seen during the so-called green revolution that was snuffed out in the last year
or so there have been demonstrations over the collapse of an insurance business.
A great deal of economic frustration, social frustration, women have been filming themselves taking off their hijab and so -- there is a generational
pressure in any case from within Iran.
But if there's one thing that's quite likely to cement over some of those fractures, it's being reached out to by people speaking from their Iranian
perspective straight from the song book.
Talking about getting the (inaudible) minority and Arab speaking minority to somehow rise up and fracture the Iranian state from within prompted
immediate comparisons with Iraq, and we saw how badly that went.
And everybody in the region and the wider European world especially is suffering the consequences of an intervention there that caused these very
centrifugal forces to really effectively destroy the central Iraqi state.
Is that what the United States wants to see? That will be the question being asked particularly by the intelligence here in Tehran.
KINKADE: Absolutely. All right. Sam Kiley in Abu Dhabi and Michelle Kosinski in Washington. We will leave it there for now. Thanks so much.
Meantime right now, Mr. Trump is expected to sit down with the FBI director and the deputy attorney general. We're told the meeting was scheduled
before Mr. Trump posted this tweet yesterday where he called for an investigation into whether the FBI or Justice Department infiltrated or
surveilled the campaign for political purposes. The Justice Department has kicked this to the watchdog to investigate.
Let's go back to Washington now and our Stephen Collinson joins us. Stephen, what is the president trying to achieve here? Has this ever
happened before where a president orders the Justice Department to investigate an investigation?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I think, Lynda, what the president is trying to achieve is to discredit the Mueller investigation,
FBI investigators into this whole question of whether there was collusion between his campaign and Russia.
He is trying to get out ahead of any findings that might be critical of him and his campaign. What we're seeing and what a lot of people are very
worried about is this appears to be a president of the United States barging over the line that there usually is between the White House and the
Justice Department.
The idea that you keep politics and the judiciary separate and that is something that we haven't really seen very much of. You've mentioned how
unusual this is. I think the only real comparison potentially is during the Watergate investigation under President Richard Nixon when he wanted to
fire the special prosecutor.
He had to work his way through firing two senior Justice Department officials before he could fire the official that would fire Archibald Cox,
the special prosecutor. Trump hasn't got to that point yet.
[15:10:01] But there are plenty of people who believe that this latest attack on the Justice Department and the deputy attorney general, Rod
Rosenstein, who oversees the Mueller probe, is a way of eventually getting to Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Real questions I think about the
integrity of U.S. government right now.
KINKADE: Yes, there certainly is and about how independent the Justice Department actually is. Given these claims we are hearing, the president
really believes that his campaign was spied on, is there any evidence at all to back those claims and to back the claims that the former President
Obama was involved?
COLLINSON: There's been a lot of speculation and coverage on conservative news networks, which the president spends a lot of time watching. The
president's allies on Capitol Hill have been fanning these accusations. There is so far no evidence whatsoever.
CNN has reported that this confidential source was sent by the FBI to talk to several people in Trump's campaign because the FBI were worried that
they were being used by the Russians to interfere in the election.
There's no suggestion that the FBI or anyone in the Obama administration sort of trumped up a plan to send someone to spy on the Trump campaign to
lure them into wrongdoing, despite what some of President Trump's supporters say.
So, it would be highly irregular -- I mean, it would actually be a great political crime if a former administration or an administration in power at
the time used its own power to spy on the campaign of an opposing party.
It seems outlandish and very unlikely. If anything, the Obama administration did too little to Russian election meddling because they
were convinced Donald Trump was going to lose the 2016 election far from trying to thwart his victory.
So, there's been no evidence and no proof and at this point it remains conspiracy theory. But it's a conspiracy theory that the president is
trying to use to further his own political position and discredit the Mueller investigation.
KINKADE: I want to leave that there for just a moment, Stephen. Look at what happened this afternoon as well. We saw the first female director of
the CIA officially appointed, Gina Haspel.
We saw President Trump go to the CIA agency, the first time he has since the first days of his presidency. Given the trying relationship he has had
with the intelligence community, will that now change given this is someone who he appointed personally?
COLLINSON: I think it might change for a little while, but Donald Trump has a bit of a history of souring on people he puts in positions of
authority. For example, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, there's been many other examples of cabinet members who Trump liked very much.
For example, former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and he quickly sours upon. One of the big questions during Gina Haspel's confirmation hearings
was whether she would stand up to the president if he tried to get her to do something that she viewed as breaching the Constitution.
If she was put in a position where she had to choose between those two eventualities, most people think she would choose her duty to the
Constitution and the American political system. I think very quickly she would then get into trouble with the president.
I think his distrust of what he calls the deep state, the intelligence community, is so acute ever since this whole issue of Russia and alleged
collusion with his campaign started toe investigated, that we're well past the point where the president thinks -- the president has changed his view
of the intelligence community.
I mean, he had a good relationship with Mike Pompeo, the previous CIA chief, but that didn't really stop him having these conspiratorial deep
state suspicions that we've seen.
KINKADE: We will be watching that relationship closely and see how that pans out. Stephen Collinson in Washington, good to have you with us.
Thank you.
President Trump has promised to impose tariffs on Chinese exports, but it looks like that won't happen at least not for a while. Treasury Secretary
Steve Mnuchin announced over the weekend the U.S. and China have reached a framework trade deal.
He says Beijing has promised to buy more American products. President Trump tweeted that the deal would be one of the best things to happen to
American farmers in years.
Our Paul La Monica of CNN Money is following this development from New York. Paul, I have to start off with what we are seeing on the stock
market today because those fears of trade wars easing seemed to have really helped that bounce back we're seeing today.
PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Definitely. The Dow is surging, up around 300 points for most of the day. I think that is largely
a reflection of increased optimism that there's going to be some sort of trade deal done between the United States and President Trump.
[15:15:08] Even though there had been some concerns that President Trump was really going to talk tough with regards to China I think that is easing
a little bit. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin even earlier this weekend seemed to indicate that trade talks could be back on the table. Here is a
listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: We're putting the trade war on hold. So, right now, we are -- we have agreed to put the tariffs on hold
while we try to execute the framework.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LA MONICA: So, you have heard that, tiffs are on hold, that doesn't mean, of course, that we may not get back to a point where things escalate once
again. But think as of right now, Lynda, there's this hope that China, particularly because of their big telecom giant, ZTE, that there is a
willingness on their part to talk more with the U.S. in a friendly manner.
And that the U.S. is willing to listen because President Trump knows that there are a lot of U.S. farmers that stood to lose big money if China
retaliated with tariffs on agricultural products.
KINKADE: So, dig a little deeper for us, Paul, because how much progress is really being made at this point given that we heard from the U.S.
treasury secretary saying that China has agreed to buy more product, particularly agricultural product. We hear from the Chinese Foreign
Ministry saying we can't ensure there won't be more friction going forward.
LA MONICA: Yes, this is still, I think, a delicate dance, Lynda. We are far from having this situation being completely resolved. The market right
now is betting that the mere fact that the U.S. and China are willing to talk and that they're not really trading too many of these strong barbs
back and forth at each other about tariffs is a good sign.
But yes, you are right, that this is not a deal that's been inked and signed and ready for the U.S. and China to celebrate completely. But this
is something that I think Wall Street is at least betting that we're going to eventually get some sort of deal even though we don't have one just yet.
KINKADE: Some progress. All right. Paul La Monica, good to have you with us live from New York. Thank you very much.
There are new questions about the Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality. That's as a sexual abuse survivor says the pope told him,
it's OK to be gay. We'll hear from what the Vatican has to say.
Also, ahead, he is a Russian oligarch who seemed to have it all, so, why can't Roman Abramovich get back into the U.K.? We will get the latest from
Moscow next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. He is a high profile Russian oligarch. He is worth billions of dollars. He even owns an English football club. There's
one thing Roman Abramovich does not have, a British visa.
Sources say the Russian's document expired about three weeks ago and the renewal process has been dragging on. He wasn't able to watch his team,
Chelsea, win the FA Cup on Saturday. No reason has been given for the delay, but it comes amid heightened tensions between the U.K. and Russia.
[15:20:10] Let's get more now from Moscow. CNN Matthew Chance is joining us live. Good to have you with us, Matthew. As I said, he is one of the
richest men in Russia, owner of the Chelsea Football Club. What can we put this holdup down to? Is it just an administrative delay or is it something
more?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not clear at the moment. I have spoken to his press flak, and he says officially that
they won't comment on any of this because it's a personal matter. But speaking privately, those close to the billionaire say that his visa
expired about three weeks ago.
And that as normal, he put in his application to have that U.K. visa renewed. But it's taken much longer than they expected to have it renewed.
It's meant that he has had to leave the country. The expectation on the part, I'm told, of the Abramovich team is that they will get the visa
eventually.
He will get the visa eventually. But they haven't been in contact with any government ministers or government offices on that issue, and said they're
really sort of questioning themselves. They're waiting to see whether the passport gets the stamp or not.
It's interesting, because it coincides with this additional pressure that's being brought to bear on the government by a parliamentary committee
calling for much more stringent measures to be taken against individuals who live in Britain, but who are close to the kremlin.
A recent foreign affairs committee report said that Britain was turning a blind eye, turning a blind eye to these kinds of individuals and to the
dirty money that they bring into the United Kingdom. It called for stronger political leadership to bring these kremlin-connected individuals
to account.
Now, it's not clear whether Roman Abramovich is one of those individuals who is being scrutinized. But we certainly do know that since the Skripal
poisoning back in March in Salisbury, the government in Britain has been compiling a list of people that are close to the kremlin that it's going to
make life much tougher for, certainly for those who live in Britain -- Lynda.
KINKADE: Matthew, this guy is worth more than $9 billion. That's according to the "Sunday Times" rich list in the U.K. He has plenty of
property in the U.K. Plenty of property in Russia. What is the kremlin saying about this? Does this at all affect his role as owner of the
Chelsea Football Club?
CHANCE: In terms of his role at the Chelsea Football Club as the owner, he is not the manager, the coach. He doesn't play for them so presumably they
can go on without his presence. They won the FA Cup final on Saturday without him being there.
It's obviously something that can be managed or run from -- owned by remote control, if you like. I think the problem may arise if he is the subject
of scrutiny and his finances become scrutinized closely by the British government, because then it's possible -- although, nothing has been said
about it at the moment.
But it's possible that all of his assets could be looked at much more closely than they have been up until now. In terms of what the kremlin
have said, well, you know, they have not spoken directly about what his specific case involves.
They are saying in general, there are -- there is a witch hunt against Russian business interests in Britain and elsewhere. They have heavily
criticized it.
KINKADE: All right. We will see if he does indeed get that visa. Matthew Chance, good to have you with us from Moscow. Thank you.
Well, going to Hawaii now, a new eruption in the Kilauea Volcano's crater sent ash plume more than 2,000 meters into the sky. There's also concern
along the coast, take a look at these pictures. Lava is oozing into the ocean. It's forming something they call laze. It's a mix of lava and haze
filled with hydrochloric acid and glass particles.
Authorities are warning people to stay away saying the mixture can cause lung, eye and skin problems. Correspondent, Scott McLean joins us now live
with the latest. I'm seeing those pictures. They really are incredible seeing this lava shoot up into the sky. Tell us what you are witnessing.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is an amazing thing to see here, Lynda. It's certainly once in a lifetime for a lot of people, but for the
people who actually live here, they are probably glad that it's only going to happen once in their life. It's a bit of a living nightmare.
This is the lava that is spewing out of the ground, just one of many fissures on this island. This is actually five of them combined. You can
see just how much is shooting out, maybe 20, 30 meters into the air.
[15:25:10] And it's sort of cascading down in these lava flows, some of them which are quite fast moving. Then you see this dark lava. This was
flowing just a couple of days ago. You can see it is still smoldering. The methane is still burning there.
And if you go about 50 meters in from the edge of that, what we were doing a live shot in there just three days ago. So, you get a sense of how
quickly things change. If you look on the horizon, you see the white cloud there, that white smoke. It's actually not steam. That's the laze that
you were mentioning.
This dangerous mixture of hydrochloric acid, steam and glass particles. It's a bit of a localized hazard, but it is potentially deadly. So,
obviously, authorities, they are keen to keep people away from those areas.
One other thing to mention that's interesting is that the lava flow that's ending up reaching the ocean, it's actually slowed recently because
geologists interestingly enough have discovered a crack underneath the lava that's actually sending some of that lava back underground. They say that
this phenomenon has happened before. The lava probably won't actually resurface.
KINKADE: Wow, it really is absolutely incredible pictures across that area. Scott McLean, really good to have you with us. Thanks so much.
Just weeks before Saudi Arabia is due to lift a ban on female drivers, authorities have arrested four of the women, who have been campaigning for
change. One of the detained activists is (inaudible) seen here driving in 2014. Those arrested are accused of having suspicious contact with foreign
entities among other charges.
According to Saudi media reports, four men have been also been arrested for supporting the women's driving campaign. Amnesty International says the
arrests prove that reforms and liberalization in the kingdom are superficial. The female driving ban is due to be lifted on June 24th.
Still to come tonight, two people are still in hospital after last week's deadly Texas school shooting. We will tell about you their condition and
what may have motivated the attack when we come back.
Also, almost 30 million people tuned in to the royal wedding. That's just in the U.S. alone. We have a look behind the scenes. We have the first
official photos from the big day. We will have those soon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. The Catholic Church has long thought that homosexuality is against God's plan. The comments allegedly made by the
pope himself has raised questions about that policy. A victim of clerical sexual abuse says he discussed his sexuality with Pope Francis in April.
He says the pontiff told him it's OK to be gay because God made you that way.
Of more, CNN's Delia Gallagher joins me now from Rome. God made you this way, the pope offering an apology to this victim of clerical abuse, but
also offering a very inclusive response. You've spoken to that man. What did he tell you?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: His name is Juan Carlos Cruz. He was a victim of a clerical sex abuse in Chile. He was invited to the
Vatican by Pope Francis to discuss that issue for three days last April. And in the course of those conversations, Cruz says they also discussed the
fact that Cruz is gay. And he says that the pope told him it doesn't matter, God made you that way, God loves you that way.
Now, the Vatican is saying today that they don't normally comment on the pope's private conversations. And indeed this would be a tricky one to
officially comment on, because one interpretation is that it was just a private conversation between the pope and a gay man and the pope was saying
what he has also said in public, being very welcoming to gay men and women in the Catholic Church.
The other interpretation could be that Pope Francis in saying God made you gay, if that is indeed what he said, would open up a whole host of other
questions about the Catholic Church's position on gay men and women. Lynda.
KINKADE: And so what pressure does this put on the Vatican going forward to, perhaps, take a stronger position or a more defined position on
homosexuality and on same-sex marriage?
GALLAGHER: Well, the Vatican's position is clearly stated in what they say the official teaching of the Catholic Church, which is that gays are to be
respected, that they are not to be discriminated against. They do have language about what they call the homosexual inclination, which they called
disordered. They have language about homosexual acts, which they also call disordered. So there's some language in there would suggest that it is not
entirely OK for the gay to be gay in a sense.
So what's happened now with Pope Francis potentially saying that God created you this way is we've got kind of two tracks. One is the pope
being very welcoming, not wanting to judge gay people. But you still got an official teaching on the books which is suggesting that it's not quite
in the same thing with Pope Francis. And so you'll hear from both sides who say, you know, yes, in terms of welcoming gay people, Pope Francis has
done a lot about that. But in terms of the official teaching of the Catholic Church, there's still a position there which hasn't been addressed
by the pope. The pope kind of runs on two tracks. One is what the public perception of an issue is and wanting people to feel welcome in the
Catholic Church. But of course, there's also the official teaching of the Catholic Church which at the moment he has not made any signal that he is
going to change. Lynda.
KINKADE: All right. We will stay on that story. Delia Gallagher for us from Rome. Thank you very much.
One man is in a critical condition after Friday's school massacre in Santa Fe, Texas. A woman injured in the attack is listed as in a good condition.
Eight students and two teachers were killed at Santa Fe high school school during an ordeal that authorities say lasted half an hour. The 17-year-old
suspect is being held without bail. And while there's no official word on a motive, the mother of one of the victims, 17-year-old Shana Fisher, said
her daughter had refused to go out with the boy.
Nick Valencia is following the investigation. He joins us now live from Santa Fe, Texas. Nick, we, it seems to be learning more about a possible
motive from that heartbreaking account of the mother of a victim. What did she say led up to this attack?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, police have not officially come out with a motive about this. One mother of one of the victims killed
on Friday, she seems to know exactly why her daughter was targeted. Shana Fisher was a classmate of the gunman, the alleged gunman and she was being
harassed for at least for months according to the family. And as this alleged gunman's advances became more and more aggressive, she just finally
had enough. And according to her mother, she stood up in the middle of class last week and rejected his advances, apparently humiliating him in
front of his classmates. It's for that reason that Shana Fisher's mother believes that she was targeted. Though again, officials have been very,
very tightlipped today.
[15:35:09] We've gotten a little bit of an update on the investigation. We know that police got here four minutes after the shooting and they were
then in a 25-minute gunfight according to the sheriff's office. And also, Lynda, what is still unclear at this point, if anybody on Friday, anyone
that was shot, killed or injured, if were caught in that crossfire, we were hoping to get some clarification today and no press conferences from police
are planned. But there is a press conference later from the school. We're hopefully we'll get more answers. Lynda.
KINKADE: And, Nic, as I understand, Texas has more guns than any other state in the U.S. After the Florida Parkland school massacre, we saw that
widespread call for better gun regulation. What has been the response there?
VALENCIA: They don't want to politicize this issue. They say -- and we've seen it with our own eyes. This is certainly not Parkland. This is not a
place where a movement like that will take hold. We were at a vigil on Friday and then a community potluck on Saturday. And in my conversations
with residents, they didn't blame guns, believe it or not. They said that this is more about inclusion. Their message that day was trying to get
people to talk to each other. Strangers who had never met, people meeting their neighbors. In fact their message for school students across the
country here in America was that you need to get to know your classmates. And they believe that that is what is going to stop the next school
shooting. Of course, that's not the message that we got in Parkland, but that is the message that we're getting here in small town Texas. Lynda.
KINKADE: All right. Nick Valencia for us in Santa Fe, good to have you with us. Thanks so much.
Well, thousands of kilometers from Texas, a family in Karachi, Pakistan is in mourning. 17-year-old exchange student, Sabika Aziz Sheikh was one of
the 10 victims killed in Friday's shooting. Her body is due to arrive home in just a few hours from now. And as they wait, Sabika's family is
struggling to understand with how all the hopes their precious daughter carried to America could have been shattered so easily.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE (voice-over): The biggest would never return to her room in Karachi. The bookshelves stuffed with Roald Dahl Novels, a diary and a
scrapbook where Sabika would write down her favorite quote laid out by her little sister.
The 17-year old was so excited to be shortlisted for a scholarship to study in Texas, she uploaded this video on YouTube.
SABIKA SHEIKH, PAKISTANI EXCHANGE STUDENT AND VICTIM OF SANTA FE, TEXAS SHOOTING: I was squealing, jumping like a mad man. I prayed to God, I
thanked them a lot, and then I was like over the moon. I wrote in the diary that day, because it was really special for me and seeing those proud
smiles on my parent's faces, that was the best moment of my life.
KINKADE: She couldn't know that opportunity would cost her life. When a shooter walked into the classroom in Santa Fe and killed her, along with
nine others.
A stream of visitors arrived at her family home in Karachi, her mother too shocked to speak to anyone coming to terms with the fact she'll never see
her daughter again. She was killed 19 days before she was due to fly back to Karachi to celebrate the Muslim festival of Eid.
Downstairs, her father deals with the media. Heartbreakingly repeating the events of how he found out his child had died thousands of kilometers from
home.
ABDUL AZIZ SHEIKH, SABIKA SHEIKH'S FATHER (through translator): I switched on the TV to see the news and on a local channel there was a ticker airing
about a shooting in Texas. I quickly switched to CNN and saw that is was from the same school my daughter was attending.
Two to three hours later, the host family called, they didn't speak to me. They weren't speaking, just crying, I knew then that there was a reason why
she wasn't answering my calls, why she wasn't responding.
I asked them clearly to tell me, "How is she?" And they replied, "She's dead."
KINKADE: When asked about gun control and what the motive behind the shooting could be, her father's too grief stricken to care.
ABDUL AZIZ SHEIKH (through translator): I haven't discussed this topic with anyone. I'm just worried about Sabika, just bring Sabika back to
Pakistan.
KINKADE: As the wait to bring Sabika's body home continues, the family grapples with the loss of their child's dreams, hopes and future. Stolen
by a senseless act thousands of kilometers away.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, still to come tonight, in Ireland, a major vote reveals the country's divisions with a referendum on abortion just days away. We look
at the unconventional methods being used to swing voters.
And it was the U.K.'s biggest 2018, the marriage of a British prince to an American actress captivated both sides over the Atlantic. We'll reflect in
the day's biggest moments with the people who made them happy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:40:47] KINKADE: Welcome back. Right now, we are days away from a vote which has truly polarized Ireland and its politics. The country's
referendum on abortion has seen a huge show of force on both sides in recent weeks. From posters to clothing, to people on the streets
campaigning one door at a time.
But as our Atika Shubert reports in many ways, the real fight for votes is happening online and sometimes from overseas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Knocking on doors, handing out pamphlets, both the yes and no campaigns are out to convince
voters just days before Ireland's abortion referendum. But the real battle is happening online, says this tech journalist, Gavin Sheridan.
GAVIN SHERIDAN, TECH JOURNALIST: If you're trying to collect audience data about this, this kind of what approach is perfect because it looks
relatively benign.
SHUBERT: He investigated a Facebook page for undecided voters.
SHERIDAN: You have no way of understanding that this is run by a no side group.
SHUBERT: That led him to a Catholic group lobbying out of the U.S., just one example of concerns that digital campaigns are finding funds from
outside of Ireland.
SHERIDAN: The more money you have, if there's no restriction on spending from a legislative point of view, the more money you have, the more likely
you are to win.
SHUBERT: Ireland is now facing the same digital dilemmas that plagued the U.S. election and the Brexit referendum. The problem is outmoded campaign
law, says one lawmaker.
JAMES LAWLESS, IRISH LAWMAKER: People are being microtargeters (ph) based on preferences they've selected. And in many cases, they don't actually
know who's behind the ads. The legislation I published, it requires amongst other things a transparency notice. So you must disclose who you
are, who's running the ad, who's paid for the ads as part of the content of that ad.
SHUBERT: Facebook has responded by blocking referendum ads paid for by foreign donors, and Google has taken it a step further, banning any ads on
the referendum altogether. Some no campaigners have chosen controversial method, camping outside maternity wards with anti- abortion banners, but
others are focusing on other methods.
One pro-life group Save the 8th has launched a substantial digital campaign with the help of Kanto, a data analytics group founded by a former
Cambridge Analytica employee, the same company that claims to have swung votes for Trump and Brexit. Cambridge Analytica recently shut down amid
allegations of illegal manipulation of Facebook user data.
JOHN MCGUIRK, SPOKESMAN, SAVE THE 8TH: To me, when at its best, when used properly, social media is a giant focus group where you can actually engage
with the electorate, you can put materials out to actually see how they react to it. And that's what we're using Kanto to do.
I don't think that the fundamental debate on abortion will ever significantly change. I mean, this is one of those issues where either you
believe that the unborn child is a human being with rights and right to life or you do not.
SHUBERT: On the other side, Together For Yes is fighting to make abortion legal in Ireland and it has put more emphasis on old- fashioned door knocks
rather than digital campaigning to win votes without any foreign aid, says long-time campaigner Ailbhe Smyth.
AILBHE SMYTH, CO-DIRECTOR, TOGETHER FOR YES: This is a referendum for the Irish people. It's the Irish people's vote. We do not accept funding from
outside, and we're absolutely clear about that. There is huge determination that this time after 35 years really are going to remove this
massive obstacle to women's safety, health, well-being and freedom. We're going to remove that not long enough from our constitution.
[15:45:18] SHUBERT: But no matter how many posters and leaflets are handed out, digital is where the votes are won, says Sheridan.
SHERIDAN: Digital to me is the main battleground now in 2018 in any country, in any referendum or election campaign. Digital is where you're
going to fight it out.
SHUBERT: Yes or no, whichever way the vote goes, the Ireland referendum has become the latest testing ground of online influence on voters unsure
of who's knocking at their digital door.
Atika Shubert, CNN, Dublin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, more to come tonight, including the world reflecting on a stunning and unconventional wedding day after the U.K.'s Prince Harry and
new Duchess of Sussex tie the knot. We talk to the people behind the highlights, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. We are getting a look at the first official photos from Saturday's royal wedding. Newlyweds Harry and Meghan now known as the
Duke and Duchess of Sussex beaming as they're joined by other members of the royal family and Megahan's, Doria Ragland mother. Another photo shows
the couple surrounded by their bridesmaids and pageboys, including Prince George and Princess Charlotte. This one, of course, you just saw the two
of them wrapped in each other's arms. Beautiful photos from Kensington Palace.
Well, the wedding itself was full of standout moments that leaned a way from conventions and expectations. Bishop Michael Curry, an American
preacher who also is the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, gave an address in a style familiar to many American worshipers. But it was a new
experience for many of the British attendants. He mentioned slavery and the healing power of love. He quoted from Martin Luther King, Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHEL CURRY, PRESIDING BISHOP AT THE ROYAL WEDDING: The late Dr. Martin Luther King once said and I quote, "We must discover the power of love.
The redemptive power of love. And when we do that, we will make of this old world a new world. If you don't believe me --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, our Christiane Amanpour spoke to Bishop Curry just a short time ago about how the royal wedding reflected a more modern society.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CURRY: The wonderful thing about it is the royal family all made this possible. They made all of this possible. And I suspect than in some
wonderful and small way, I got a feeling God was trying to send a message not just to them but maybe to the whole human family that the truth is no
matter who we are, no matter our station in life, we actually come from the same God. And last time I checked, even in the world of biology, if you
have the same parent, you are related to that person. And the truth is, we got the same parent, which means we are all related. Whether we are royal
or not. Whether we are black or white, red, yellow, brown, gay, straight, rich, poor, no matter the nationality, no matter the religion, we all come
from the same God. And if that's true, then we are brothers and sisters and we're meant to be our sisters' keepers and our brother's keeper. And
my friend, we'd have a very different world if we all lived like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:50:16] KINKADE: We certainly, with Reverend Michael Curry there.
Well, it was the union which melded British and American traditions, a fusion seen and heard through the gospel music of the Kingdom Choir. It's
for fun royals on many occasions, including the queens Jubilee and the 2007 concert on Princess Diana. But this was its first performance at a royal
wedding. Have a listen to the rendition of "Stand by Me."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHOIR: so darling, darling stand by me, stand by me, stand by me, stand by me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: An unbelievable performance. For the choir's conductor, founder and director, Karen Gibson join me from London a short time ago. I asked
her what it felt like to perform at the royal wedding.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAREN GIBSON, CONDUCTOR AND FOUNDER, KINGDOM OF CHOIR: It felt like a moment in time, not just an event. It felt like -- it was an experience.
It was a happening and just a wonderful to be a part of such a beautiful moment for us.
KINKADE: It really was wonderful. "Stand by Me," of course is a love song, but it also is a political song. It rose prominent in the 60's
during t civil rights movement. It's been recorded, covered by more than 400 artists. Why did the bride and groom choose it? Did they explain the
reasons?
GIBSON: They actually didn't explain the reason. And I thought it was an unusual choice for a wedding. I didn't know that it was a political -- a
protest song, if you like. But what we did find out is that it was actually originally inspired by a spiritual. That gave us as people of
faith context for the song. So we sung as a love song. But it's also a statement of our faith.
KINKADE: And the other song you sang, "This Little Light of Mine." I just want to play for our viewers right now, just a short clip which was sung at
the end of the ceremony.
GIBSON: Yes.
CHOIR: This little light of mine. I'm going to let it's of mine. It's going to let it shine. This little light of mine to let it shine, let it
shine.
KINKADE: Those voices, unbelievable. It sounds like you're lifting the roof off that chapel there. That was also a protest song from the 60's.
Was that a way for Meghan to honor her American heritage?
GIBSON: I have to be honest. I will say, I did not have this conversation with Meghan. What I did hear is that she had heard it somewhere and she
really liked this version. It was a medley of "Amen" and "This little light of mine." So the song starts with Amen. So listen, I've grown up in
the Pentecostal church. I've been singing these songs for years. This has never been about protests, no political connotations at all. I was quite
surprised to find all this history out. Again, we're seeing it as songs of faith. And I thought just automatically thought that it would be the same
for Meghan. So maybe she's honoring her American heritage. I don't know. I can't comment.
KINKADE: Now, you co-founded this incredible choir 20 year ago. You've won numerous awards. Tell us what went into the performances we saw at the
royal wedding. How much rehearsal did you do?
GIBSON: I'm going to be honest, we didn't have that much rehearsal, simply because we didn't get the call too long before the day, about two months.
And then it was a matter of coordinating people, making sure that we got enough members for the date. I couldn't really tell people what we were
doing. I just have to say, are you available this date? It's big. I need you to be there. But I can't tell you what it's about. There was all that
kind of preparation that went on. We had about two proper rehearsals. And then we had some acoustic rehearsals and rehearsed over at the BBC that we
had to do staging rehearsals, if you like.
KINKADE: And so, how did the members of your choir react when you told them this would be a performance at the royal wedding?
GIBSON: They were God smacked. I don't know if that's an American term.
[15:55:00] KINKADE: God smack, we know.
GIBSON: Know, all right. So they were very surprised. They were blown away by it. And I'm going to be honest again and say, I got the call. And
when I got the call, I said, you're joking right? And the person on the other end of the line went very silent and then he said, "You're not
joking, are you? This is real." But even then, I didn't believe it for weeks after.
KINKADE: A lot of commentators pointed out that they haven't seen sort of an audience -- a crowd in that chapel that diverse in seven centuries.
GIBSON: I've heard that this is the case. I have not visited the chapel before, so I can't really comment. I understand that it's quite unusual.
But this is multicultural Britain. Britain is diverse and it's wonderful to see that the royal family is diverse there. They are modern. They are
approachable. They are relevant. I think this can only be a great thing for Britain.
KINKADE: Have you had any reaction from Meghan, from Harry, from any of the royal family to those incredible performances by your choir?
GIBSON: I have to say, we haven't heard from them. I think they're a little preoccupied as newlyweds. So I think they've other things on their
mind. So we haven't heard from them. When Prince Charles was walking down the aisle, however, he looked into our eyes and looked so approving,
nodding his head. And he did make some comments. I didn't hear what he said. But I think he was very much in approval.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: What a wonderful lady and awesome choir.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight. "QUEST MEANS BUSINES" is next.
END
