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Hala Gorani Tonight
North Korean Envoy To Deliver Letter To Trump; Pompeo: Would Be Tragic To Waste Summit Opportunity; Mike Pompeo, Kim Yong Chol Meet For Second Day; Jihadi Who Called For Attack On Prince George Convicted; Mexico, E.U., And Canada Now To Retaliate Over Trump Tariffs; Deportees Return To A Dangerous El Salvador; Russian Journalist Defends Staging Of His Death; Zinedine Zidane Abruptly Resigns As Manager; Trump Pardons Conservative Pundit Dinesh D'Souza; Samantha Bee Apologizes For Vulgar Remark About Ivanka Trump. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 31, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:21]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, real progress in the last 72 hours. That's how the American secretary of state, Mike Pompeo says crucial talks with North Korea have
gone as we wait to hear if that Singapore summit will or will not go ahead.
Also, the U.S. slaps tariffs on some of its biggest allies and those allies are understandably not happy about it. We will get reaction.
And a nightmare for immigrants forced to return to their violent homelad. We have an exclusive report from inside El Salvador.
Let's get right to our breaking news. America's top diplomat calls it a once in a lifetime opportunity to change the course of the world. Mike
Pompeo just briefed reporters after holding a second day of talks in New York with a top North Korean official.
They are laying the groundwork for that historic summit between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un. Kim Yong-Chol, who you see here on the left shaking
hands with Pompeo, is the first North Korean official to visit the United States at this level in 18 years.
And Pompeo says he's confident things are moving in the right direction, calling it all a pivotal moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I know everyone is following this minute by minute and hour by hour. This is going to be a process that will
take days and weeks to work our way through. There will be tough moments. There will be difficult times.
I've had some difficult conversations with him as well. They have given it right back to me, too. There are decades into this challenge. So, one not
ought to be either surprised or frightened or deterred by moments where it looks like there are challenges, difficult things that can't be bridged.
Our mission is to bridge them so that we can achieve this historic outcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Pompeo also says Kim Yong-Chol will meet the president tomorrow to hand and deliver a letter from the North Korean leader himself.
Let's bring in global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott, at the State Department, and international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson is in Seoul.
Elise, he was asked -- sorry, Nic, let's get to you.
So, clearly from the perspective of officials in Seoul, this is good news, right, because as we heard from Mike Pompeo, that progress has been made in
the last 72 hours precisely he said, we don't know if we will find out tomorrow if the summit will go ahead. We made progress towards setting the
conditions necessary for the two leaders to meet -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's certainly something that the South Koreans were hoping that these meetings that
Pompeo was having with Kim Yong-Chol would be at least not fall apart and when the meeting broke down earlier today, there was concern that it had
ended too soon.
The State Department official had said it ended early because they achieved everything they wanted to achieve. Pompeo corrected later -- Pompeo
corrected later saying that it didn't ended early, but they needed to have this meeting so that they could both make sure they both understood each
other's positions.
But look, I think South Korea will look at this and listen to the language that Secretary of State Pompeo used. The language is still -- leaves a
huge fundamental decision in the hands of North Korea, in the hands of Kim Jong-un.
He said that he hoped Pompeo said he hoped the North Korean leader would be bold. This is a historic moment. But his understanding is only so far
that the North Koreans are contemplating -- contemplating -- they haven't made the decision.
Contemplating what could be a strategic shift from years and years of being stuck in one position and that this would a fundamentally different path.
In essence, we're exactly where we were before.
That these talks are being held in a very, very hasty and speeded up environment. The pressure hugely on Pompeo here. I noted particularly he
said that we're testing the proposition that President Trump has put forward.
Bumps in the road ahead he said for sure. You know, I think if you are in South Korea and you are in the Blue House right now not far from here where
the president is, you are going to be looking at that and saying, well, we are not there yet despite the positive noises.
GORANI: Yes. But Elise Labott, listening to Mike Pompeo, he was asked point black, will we find out tomorrow if this summit is going to happen?
I mean, let's get real here. It's 12 days away. This isn't in several months.
[15:05:03] He said I don't know, but then he added, we have made real progress. I want our viewers to listen exactly to how Pompeo worded it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POMPEO: I don't know the answer to that. I will tell you, we have made in the last 72 hours towards setting the conditions. So, your question really
goes to what are the conditions? The conditions are putting President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong-un a place where we think there could be real
progress made by the two of them meeting.
It does no good if we are in a place where we don't think there's real opportunity to place them together. We've made real progress towards that
in the last 72 hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Elise, can you hear me?
ELISE LABOTT, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We had a little --
GORANI: She can now. We were having a few audio issues.
LABOTT: Yes, we're good.
GORANI: So, Elise, based on everything we've heard from Mike Pompeo, what does that tell us about the likelihood of this meeting actually happening
in Singapore?
LABOTT: I mean, look, I don't want to then -- you know, we -- I think between now and June 12th, we're going to have it on and off several times,
Hala. I think that they made it pretty clear that they want to have it on June 12th.
I think at the end of the day if I was a betting woman, they feel that they have enough progress to go forward and have this meeting. President Trump
even said today, it may not all get done at one meeting. It may -- they may need a couple of meetings to hash this all out.
I think it's pretty clear that President Trump wants to go the extra mile to meet with Kim Jong-un. He is hosting Kim Yong-Chol in Washington
tomorrow, a very extraordinary visit. We haven't had a visit by a North Korean senior -- any really senior North Korean leader to Washington in the
last 18 years.
They are waiving restrictions on the North Koreans. So, he cannot just come to Washington, not just come to the White House, but to meet with
President Trump. And I think if you look at what's going on here, if look at what's going on the DMS, where Ambassador Sung Kim and his team is
pretty much going through a draft and trying to put together something that could form the basis for some type of agreement.
I think it's going to be all systems go for June 12th. But I think we need to manage expectations of what this meeting is and what it is not. I think
it's going to be some small deliverables if they can get a commitment by North Korea in theory to denuclearize, I think we're a long way from what
the U.S. really wants to see.
But I think you can already see the administration lowering its expectations so that that meeting can go ahead for President Trump. He
really wants it.
GORANI: Right. Yes. Nic Robertson, Mike Pompeo reiterated what he had tweeted the day before, which is the U.S. position on what denuclearization
means to Washington, complete verifiable and irreversible denuclearization.
That is obviously not at this point what North Korea wants. And even if North Korea best-case scenario for the U.S. said, sure, I agree, it would
still take years to get this done. You don't decide on Friday and it happens Monday.
LABOTT: Right.
ROBERTSON: Yes, this is not a box that you tick on a questionnaire and say, I will go for that, the complete, verifiable, irreversible
denuclearization. That comes with a whole massive set of standards, inspection regimes.
You know, North Korea opening its doors to inspectors. This has never, never happened in a substantial way that the United States is going to want
to happen here. Perhaps you can get language where this sort of self- determined -- North Korea self-determined decision to sort of put their own moratorium on further nuclear and ballistic testing.
Kind of try to lock, get some language to lock that in, that might be a deliverable. But the sort of inspection regime that would be required, the
commitment from North Korea that would be required, look at how long it took to get that complicated Iran deal that President Trump just tore up
because he said it wasn't good enough, years.
So, what we're trying -- what the administration is trying to do here in weeks and days now -- days even is to do what it took the last
administration years to do with Iran. It's a very tall order.
So that definition by the United States, it is very hard to see how they can get North Korea to a position of even saying, you know, yes in theory,
we'll progress with that because what happens if they don't, you walk away, and President Trump is going to look like a loser on this.
And that's not the position he wants to be in. It's not the position Secretary Pompeo wants to see his boss in either.
GORANI: Nic Robertson, Elise Labott, thanks to both of you. I want more perspective on these developments now. I'm joined by experts, Balbina
Hwang, a former senior adviser at the State Department, and Mintaro Oba, a former State Department Korea desk officer. Thanks to both of you for
joining us.
Balbina, first of all, you hear Mike Pompeo say here is our position. This is before talks even if they happened (inaudible) taken place, want
complete, verifiable, and irreversible denuclearization.
[15:10:13] Where can compromise be found here? Because it would be surprising if North Korea would agree to that, wouldn't it, Balbina?
BALBINA HWANG, VISITING PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, we certainly think so. That is not a compromisable position at all. It's
certainly the position the United States has firmly been and stated since early 2000s. No, that's not a compromisable position.
GORANI: So, Mintaro Oba, where does that leave us then? Where can some sort of agreement be found here if these talks take place in Singapore on
June 12?
MINTARO OBA, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT KOREA DESK OFFICER: Well, I think it would be difficult for this summit to be perceived as success unless the
United States and North Korea close the substantive gap on denuclearization or lower public expectations about what this summit is about. And today we
did see a couple of encouraging signs from President Trump and Secretary Pompeo that they may be starting to lower expectations a bit.
GORANI: All right. And Balbina, I mean, you heard Mike Pompeo say in the last 72 hours we've made progress. Do you think this is going to go ahead?
If it does, is it too quick? I mean, should we not see it not necessarily a good thing in terms only of what can be achieved so quickly in these
types of talks?
HWANG: Well, I think we are sort of getting lost in all of the details and -- all very specifics about the summit. I think also that we have laser
focused in on the denuclearization issue. And really what is at stake here is so much more than that.
We're talking about tensions on the Korean Peninsula. Really, about at the heart, ending a war that has essentially been going on for 65 years. That
is really at the heart of what the nuclear issue is really all about.
And so, if we really broaden the issue, frankly speaking, yes, the denuclearization, CVID is uncompromisable, but perhaps there is something
far greater here at stake.
GORANI: All right. So, Mintaro Oba, let's also not forget the history of North Korea's leadership when it comes to making promises and backing out.
They could look at the United States and say, you signed a deal with Iran and now you are walking away from it essentially. Why should we trust you
with anything we signed with the United States if the next president could tear it up? Do you think that's something that's going through their
minds?
OBA: Well, absolutely. That's why you hear the North Koreans consistently emphasizing a phased and synchronize approach to denuclearization, which
basically means that they want to see some sort of back and forth over a long period of time to get better confidence in what the United States can
and will do.
GORANI: So, I guess, Balbina, when you talk about something bigger than that, something bigger than denuclearization, we're talking here about a
North Korea, a brutal dictatorship. I mean, the top diplomat of North Korea, the de facto top diplomat of North Korea, Kim Yong-Chol, has
reportedly led an effort that ended in the destruction of a South Korean vessel and the deaths of dozens of South Korean Navy men.
So, you know, what can be achieved with that in terms of the country itself? Can it open itself up? Can it change from within?
HWANG: Well, that's right. Actually, he is not really the top diplomat. He is really a four-star general. Let's be clear, he is a four-star
general and was in charge of North Korea's intelligence service. He was simply sent as the head of the envoy.
And not just in charge of the -- that horrible incident with the sinking of the naval vessel but actually we think in charge of cyberattacks and
numerous other attacks against South Korea and probably perpetrated numerous other incidents.
This is the problem. North Korea is a terrorist state. North Korea never mind its horrible human rights abuses, and interestingly enough President
Trump, I'm told very recently the one consistent area that he has been absolutely strong about has been on speaking about human rights problems in
North Korea.
And so, one would hope that he has not backed away on this and it would be interesting to see if he would bring this up at the summit if it occurs.
GORANI: So, Mintaro Oba, last one to you. Let's imagine a best-case scenario where the summit goes ahead, both sides agree on what
denuclearization means, it's done in a verifiable way, where North Korea opens up. What could the changes be that come to the whole region if we
consider a best-case scenario here?
OBA: Well, you know, in my best-case scenario, I don't expect that the two sides will necessarily come to an agreement on denuclearization. Their
positions are pretty far apart right now.
[15:15:10] But I think that there is real merit to starting a longer term diplomatic process that will reduce tensions overall in the region, and it
will allow the United States and others to focus their energies more strategically elsewhere.
GORANI: All right. Mintaro Oba and Balbina Hwang, thanks so much to both of you for being with us to analyze this fast-moving story and this
breaking news this evening.
Still to come, foiled, a man convicted over a terror plot targeting Prince George. The very latest from Scotland Yard in just a moment.
And putting America first or risking America alone? The U.S. angers some of its biggest trading partners after Donald Trump announces major new
tariffs. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, now to a frightening story from here in the United Kingdom. A man has been convicted of encouraging terrorists to far get a 4-year-old
Prince George at his school. Husnain Rashid posted several messages online glorifying and inciting attacks, saying, quote, "Even the royal family will
not be left alone."
Nina dos Santos is outside Scotland Yard in London. So, these were conversations on message platforms, message sharing groups like WhatsApp
and Telegram I understand.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: That's right, Hala. Well, it seems as though this individual had to dramatically change his plea because
of the overwhelming amount of evidence the prosecutors had against him, largely, evidence that they may not have discovered because it was part of
those encrypted WhatsApp and in particular, Telegram messaging channels that he had been using.
But his telephone it seems answered the window into an alley way when his property was raided back in November and that seems to be the important way
in which they managed to glean all of this information.
They described him as a prolific user of social media, and in particular those encrypted apps that you talked about, Hala, that apparently during
the period of October 2016 to April of 2018, which is the period that this trial focused on heavily. He sent 290,000 encrypted messages to his
followers encouraging them to attack public places like football matches, supermarkets, but also public figures like as you mentioned the young
Prince George.
He is only 4 years old, third in line to the throne. He was only one month into his new school when this particular individual, Rashid, put a message
up online which showed a picture of the young Prince George outside his school giving the address of this school.
And on that image, he super imposed jihadi fighters with the message as he said even the royal family isn't alone. Prosecutors said that that was a
clear indication he was inciting people to commit violence against public figures like for instance, the royal family but also other dignitaries in
the U.K. seemed to be targeted as well.
[15:20:10] He's going to be sentenced on June the 28th. Given the weight of the three or four crimes that he has pled guilty to, it's likely, Hala,
he will spend a number of years behind bars.
GORANI: And how did they catch him? I mean, these apps are encrypted after all.
DOS SANTOS: Remember, this isn't the first time we stood outside the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police here at New Scotland Yard and
talked about just the sheer weight of the -- of what the authorities have to deal with when it comes to monitoring extremists in this country.
There's many thousands of them on the terror watch list. There's a big, big, big job to be done to monitor individuals like this. Now, obviously,
they did have some surveillance. As I said, this individual was very active on social media. He was very active on some of these chat groups.
So, presumably, they would have been infiltrating those to find out exactly what he was trying to incite people to do. But, as I said, the key piece
of evidence seems to have been this mobile phone that was thrown into an alleyway and from there they could unlock a lot of these conversations.
As I said, they presented such weight of evidence in this trial that after two weeks of denying any of these accusations against him, Rashid
eventually it seems changed his plea. He pled guilty to three counts of preparing terror acts and one count of inciting other people to do the
same.
There are also two charges that still lie on the sheet, and that pertains to conversations he had with ISIS fighters in Syria where it seems he at
one point had been planning to go to Syria to join the fight -- Hala.
GORANI: Nina dos Santos at New Scotland Yard, thanks very much.
Italy's week of political uncertainty may be coming to a close. The country's two populist parties have once again struck a deal to form a
coalition government. Giuseppe Conte is set to lead as prime minister.
He was proposed last week before the president rejected his government. The man who replaced him on an interim basis, Carlo Cottarelli has stepped
down saying it was no longer necessary to form a technical government.
Well, on top of that, America's biggest trading partners are promising to fight back against U.S. tariffs that some believe could start a new trade
war. The penalties target, Canada, Mexico and the E.U. from midnight tonight.
Imports of steel and aluminum from those areas will be hit by tariffs of 25 percent and 10 percent respectively. As you can imagine, the move is
troubling investors on Wall Street. This is what the Dow looks like.
No panic but it's still a down day, triple digits lower, 224 points down. The Dow hovering around 24,440. The E.U. and Mexico say they will take
punitive measures of their own. In the past hour, Canada's prime minister has spoken out saying retaliation is simply a necessity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: The American administration has made a decision today that we deplore. Obviously, is going to lead to
retaliatory measures as it must, but we regret that. We would so much rather move together in partnership understanding that no two countries
have economies as interwoven and mutually beneficial as Canada and the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Justin Trudeau there. Rana Foroohar is in New York with more. How dangerous could this new trade -- this potential trade war be to the
world economy?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Well, quite dangerous, Hala. You know, the E.U. and the U.S. are very important trading partners.
Mexico and the U.S., Canada and the U.S., this is really the basis of the developed world's trading system that we're talking about here.
What's so ironic about it is both the U.S. and the E.U. have real trade issues, real bees to pick with China. But Trump has chosen to get in a
fight with the E.U. rather than bond together with the E.U. in order to deal with those more important issues that are happening between the U.S.
and China right now. It's really kind of an unbelievable move.
GORANI: But why would he do that?
FOROOHAR: Frankly, I think it's bluster. I think it's appealing to his own voting base. I mean, we have to remember always, we're going into a
midterm election here in the U.S. in the fall. I think that he is very much playing to that red state votership.
I think it's a very worrisome time between now and then for that very reason, that we could see more erratic behavior, more moved designed to
really play to a certain electorate rather than sensible economic strategies.
GORANI: And this will hurt some American exporters. This is what Jean Claude Juncker had to say about these tariffs when they were announced.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CLAUDE JUNCKER, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: The European Union cannot react to that without any kind of reaction. So, we'll immediately
introduce a settlement dispute on the WTO level and announce in the next coming hours counter balancing measures, what they can do, we are able to
do exactly the same.
[15:25:13] It's totally unacceptable that a country is imposing unilateral measures when it comes to trade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's the president of the European Commission, Rana. The E.U. will probably impose retaliatory tariffs on American products, recognizable
and typical like Harley-Davidson motorcycles, Levi jeans. This is going to hurt American companies ultimately as well.
FOROOHAR: Absolutely and you can bet that it's going to hurt the biggest and most high prestige brands that's exactly what countries will go after
in a trade war. It's a losing game. You know, we know that from history.
It's really impossible, I think, for any mainstream economist to come up with a moment in time when a tariff war has worked. Sometimes tariff
threats can be a strategy. But really getting into a trade war is always a losing game.
It's just something that we have to hope will be called off at the last minute, I think.
GORANI: There is an issue, though, with China, right? Dumping very, very inexpensive, cheap metals on the world market. So, there is something that
needs to be addressed. It's just the way --
FOROOHAR: There is.
GORANI: -- that the Trump administration is going about it is what's puzzling.
FOROOHAR: Well, no, and that's a very good point. The Trump administration has won over a lot of folks on the right and some folks on
the left in the U.S. by saying, you know what, we're not going to stand for the fact that China is a serial violator of WTO rules.
I mean, they are much more responsible for dumping issues in steel than the European Union is. But the strategy that most people would have liked to
have seen at this moment was the U.S. and the E.U. really coming together now that China has emerged on the world stage as a big deal power and
saying, OK, you are a mature, rich country now, you've got to play by the rules. That message would have been a lot stronger and more effective, I
believe, if the E.U. and the U.S. were in this together.
GORANI: Let's talk about Italy worries. It seems as though there's at least -- there's a government formed. There were big, big concerns a few
days ago. That abated a bit.
FOROOHAR: It has. That has to do with the fact that most of Italy's debt, about 70 percent of Italy's debt is now held within Italy. There's very
little foreign exposure. There's some exposure in European banks. I think that's why you can see those stocks continue to be volatile.
U.S. exposure is minimal which is why the street is shrugging this off. The kind of problem at the center of Italy's debt issues -- the euro zone
in general is the fact that there's still not really a political union between core Europe, the richer countries, Germany, France and Italy and
Spain and the weaker countries and that rift is going to continue to flare up whenever you see a market trouble.
GORANI: And still so much weak growth across the board. I mean, the austerity approach doesn't work for all countries and there is a lot of
frustration in Italy, in Southern Europe as well, to be constantly required to meet this 2 percent debt -- 2 percent of GDP debt level is hurting
economies that are just stagnant right now and it should be growing.
FOROOHAR: That's kind of the core problem at heart of the E.U. You know, ultimately, ideally, the E.U. would have been more like the United States
of Europe where you could have fiscal transfers from wealthier countries to poorer ones. If you have that, you would allow Germany more control over
how Italy manages its budget. You don't have that.
You kind of have the worst of both worlds in some ways. It's a real issue and as I say until Europe resolves that sort of existential crisis, we are
going to situations like this again and again.
GORANI: All right. We have to leave it there. Why is Wall Street not reacting with panic to this potential trade war looming?
FOROOHAR: We have seen Donald Trump change, pivot so many times, Hala. I think until Monday morning, I don't think you are going to see much
reaction in the market when we really know if this is the real deal.
GORANI: All right. Rana Foroohar, thanks, as always, live in New York.
Still to come tonight, deported from the U.S., back to a violent homeland, gangs target terrified new arrivals in El Salvador. Our exclusive report
in a moment.
We have an update on a story that shocked the world. A Russian journalist is now defending faking his own death saying it was necessary to save his
own life. He will be speaking in his own words next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:08] GORANI: As many of you who watch this program know, we strive to bring you the most talked about stories on the planet. But sometimes we
come across stories that aren't being spoken about. Because until now, there was no one there to really listen, such as the stories in our next
report. They belong to people forced from their homes in America and deported back to their country of origin, in this case El Salvador. Not
only is that a place that's unfamiliar to many of them, but it's somewhere these people can be at serious risk in ways they may never have imagined.
Nick Paton Walsh has this exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Someone is murdered here every two hours. One intend people ensnared by gangs.
Streets plagued by machete killings, rape and police abuses. Welcome to El Salvador. The cruelest of homelands and the toughest of places to be
forced back to. These are the first moments of men deported from the United States back to a land they can't really call home anymore.
Blinking, sleepless, and now homeless for some of the 200,000 Salvadorians deported from their long-term homes in the United States under President
Trump's immigration crackdown.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot let people enter our country. We have no idea who they are, what they do, where they came
from. We don't know if they're murders, if they're killers, if they're MS- 13. We're throwing them out by the hundreds.
WALSH: Many here had a matter of hours' notice, no chance even to call ahead as they're forced back to a country some have not seen for years,
maybe even decades.
Welcome home here is about name tags, humiliating roll calls, lacing your shoes again and realizing as a grown man you have to start from zero again
emptyhanded. Christian Lara lived in the USA for 20 years and was deported coming out of his Florida construction job. He had only committed
immigration offenses. The best choice now is a $5 a day farm job.
CHRISTIAN LARA PINEDA, SALVADORIAN DEPORTEE (through translator): I have to work a lot to earn. But how can I support my family with only $5?
WALSH: He doesn't know when or if he'll see his family again.
What are you daughters' names?
PINEDA: Jennifer.
WALSH: Sorry?
PINEDA: Jennifer.
WALSH: Jennifer. How old?
PINEDA: Twelve.
WALSH: Twelve.
[15:35:00] PINEDA: And another, three years.
WALSH: Three years. Her name?
PINEDA: She's my little baby, Angela.
WALSH: I'm sorry, my friend.
Oscar is more complicated. He's 20, went to America age 10 and served four months for assault and bodily harm in Houston. Get back here, he trembles.
Are you scared of the gangs here now?
OSCAR MORALES FLORES, SALVADORIAN DEPORTEE: Yes.
WALSH: Are you scared you may end up involved and caught up in that?
FLORES: While I was in the USA, I see the news like 16 people were killed every day. It's scaring me, man.
WALSH: He's already counting the money in his account to see if he has enough for the $8,000 smuggling fee back to the U.S.
Christian meets his mother after four years and recently deported brother, Jose. Only two weeks later, Jose messages me on his way to Guatemala to
pay to be smuggled back to the United States. Forty-eight hours passed since we meet Christian and Oscar in which there are two beheadings, over
20 murders and a policeman is killed.
It's no accident that these elite police come here in large number heavily armed. This is a gang-controlled area and literally streets away from
where Oscar is beginning his new life back in El Salvador. Oscar agrees to meet us again. He's had two nights in his new home. But it took just four
hours for the gang to approach him.
FLORES: MS-13, they take my shirt down and I tell him, what you doing, man? I want to check if you've got tattoos on your body. OK. I don't
have any tattoo on my body. All right.
WALSH: Because he's looking to see if you're Barrio 18 or the other gang, right?
FLORES: Yes.
WALSH: And this is your what? Your first few hours back at home, right?
FLORES: Mm-hmm.
WALSH: What are you thinking, right?
FLORES: man, I don't want to live here. I'll be leaving here, man.
WALSH: His dad didn't want to know him.
FLORES: He looked like -- I'm a -- man. He looked like, why you coming to my house, man?
WALSH: And this is what falling down here looks like. In the crammed prisons that are gang playgrounds where Oscar, his family and the U.S.,
frankly, hope he doesn't end up. Where gang culture brews and hardens and tattoos and no opportunities unavoidably lead. Petty theft in California
led to deportation for Edwin and now jail.
EDWIN: Here in this country, because you have tattoos, gangs automatically think that you are a member of some gang or you have been part of a gang.
Here, it's different. A little kid could take your life away. If you don't talk to them, you're their enemy. And if you talk to them, then they
want you to be part of them.
WALSH: Some deportees from the United States have committed crimes, others none while being in the U.S. illegally. Or come back to a world where
their desperation and vulnerability and the risk for gangs have on their new world deepens further still. El Salvador is chaos.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, El Salvador.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Amid the bloodshed of El Salvador's gang violence, a crime wave focused on women is collecting more victims. And tomorrow's report, Nick
Paton Walsh gets rare access to a women's prison where gang targets turned hitman end up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: A jail is so rarely a place for sympathy, but women are so often dragged in to barbaric gang culture, and often find themselves on the
receiving end of a violent society.
She remembers her initiation into the gang Barrio 18.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I got kicked and hit. That was necessary to be a part of it.
WALSH: How long did that last for, I asked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Eighteen seconds. Yes, there are women that go through worse. Sometimes they are raped, beaten up,
mistreated.
WALSH: She was young when she joined. There wasn't a choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My father died and my mother was an alcoholic and left us. I looked after five brothers and that's how I
ended up on the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Tune in Friday, tomorrow, to watch the rest of Nick Paton Walsh's reporting starting at 5:00 a.m. in London, noon in Hong Kong and on this
program as well.
[15:40:04] Sometimes, recently it's been quite often the truth is stranger than fiction. On the surface, a Russian journalist and kremlin critics
seemingly shot dead in Ukraine. But the reality, Arkady Babchenko was very much alive. As the world learned, when he appeared on television just a
day later, and all of our jaws collectively dropped. The bizarre details keep coming in though. At a news conference today, he defended his
participation in the hoax saying it was a response to real threat on his life. Authorities are backing his version of events up saying the Ruse
helped them arrest a man who was plotting the murder of the journalist.
Our Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow with more. So we are directly from Babchenko today. Tell us what he said about how everything unfolded.
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And you're absolutely right, the truth really is stranger than fiction. He basically
gave a play by play as to how exactly everything went down on that evening when he was allegedly shot in front of his door in Kiev. He said all that
started about a month before when the Ukrainian authorities came up to him and said that there was this plot to assassinate him. He then said he's
going to go along with their plan. He said, on that day, a makeup artist actually came by and covered him in pig's blood and gave him a shirt that
already had bullet holes in it. So then it was staged that he was shot in front of his doorstep.
A real ambulance was called with a real doctor in it. And then he was brought to a real morgue where a real mortician really declared him dead,
signed the papers saying that he was dead. And it was only after the doors of the morgue, Hala, had been closed that he then, as he calls it, was
resurrected. He said, he didn't had to be brought to a safe location because journalists showed up at the morgue. And then he said he was
watching TV and seeing all these obituaries and all these people saying all these kind words about him on television until, of course, that it was
revealed that he wasn't really dead.
Now, as you mentioned, he then came out and said, look, he was completely unapologetic about it. However, of course, there is still all this
criticism out here about whether or not this operation really had to be conducted this way. Hala.
GORANI: And as I was saying earlier, we do have sound, don't we? From Babchenko. Yes. Let's run that. And then I'll get back to you for the
endpoint. Yes.
Pleitgen: Yes.
GORANI: Go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARKADY BABCHENKO, RUSSIAN JOURNALIST (through translator): Those journalists who think that I crossed the red line, my friends, when they
come to you, show you the photo, the photo of the organizer and your murderer, your hitman, and they ask you, what do you want, do you want to
survive or do you want to keep the ethics and moral standing of our profession, then my dear friends, you keep your morals. I choose to
survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So there he is defending himself saying they had no choice. But I guess my question is, why did they have to stage the murder in order to
catch the hired assassin or the person who they suspected was going to murder -- to actually murder him?
PLEITGEN: Yes. So he did defend himself, but he did post some pretty angry things on Facebook as well, criticizing international journalists who
are questioning whether or not it really had to be done this way. The Ukrainian authorities, Hala, they came out and they said, look, if we would
have just foiled this plot, we may have been able to get the assassin or the would-be assassin, but they said because of the fact that the assassin
and the people who had hired the assassin thought that all this was a success, that there was communication between them. And that allowed them
to capture a second suspect and now they say they're being able to find out who may have been behind all of this.
Ukrainians, of course, are saying that everything points to Russia. The Russians continue to say that they had absolutely nothing to do with it.
They are, of course, pretty angry about the fact that all of this was staged. But the Ukrainians say that they absolutely had to conduct this
operation that way. Now, that's not stopping this international criticism. The Committee to Protect Journalist coming out and saying, look, you really
have to provide an explanation, because this is something that is really absolutely unprecedented and could really undermine the credibility of
journalists in the future.
GORANI: All right. There are lots of questions out there. We're all happy he's alive though, after having reported his death for 24 hours.
Thanks very much, Fred Pleitgen in Moscow.
Now, I don't bring you football new every day unless it's huge. Well, talk about going out on top. This past Saturday, Zinedine Zidane led Real
Madrid to its third straight Champions League title. All right. He thinks he's on top. Everything is going great. Well, today, the French legend
abruptly announced that he was resigning as manager.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZINEDINE ZIDANE, FOOTBALL COACH (through translator): I think it's the moment both for me, the team and the club to step down. It's a strange
moment to do so, I know. But an important one, too. I had to do this for everyone. This side, you carry on winning and needs a change for this.
After three years, it needs another voice, another method of work. For this, I took the decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:45:10] GORANI: The move apparently surprised everyone. Real Madrid's president, Florentino Perez was at the news conference and said he was not
prepared for the news, if you can imagine that. Lots of speculation now on who takes the reigns. And one of the name being floated is Zidane's
countryman, one of Zidane's countryman, Arsene Wenger who recently left Arsenal after 21 seasons in charge.
Still to come tonight, President Trump has pardoned a pundit. Now is a lifestyle guru, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: U.S President Donald Trump has pardoned a controversial conservative pundit convicted of violating campaign finance laws, Dinesh
D'Souza, admitted using straw donors to make excess donations to a 2012 Senate candidate. But Mr. Trump says D'Souza was treated very unfairly.
He got some hard prison time. Mr. Trump tells reporters he's also considering pardons for former Illinois governor, Rod Blagojevich serving
14 years for corruption and for business woman and lifestyle expert Martha Stewart who served five months for making false statements to federal
investigators.
The pardon for D'Souza, as Mr. Trump's fourth pardon to a political figure. White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond joins us from Washington. So for
people who don't know who Denish D'Souza is and who aren't familiar with his extremely controversial statements, tell us who he is.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Denish D'Souza is an extremely controversial conservative author and filmmaker. He's made
a number of comments that have been deemed racist, Islamaphobic, et cetera by a various people in the political world in DC including Republicans who
have rebuked him as well. But what we understand is that the president decided to pardon Denish D'Souza who was convicted for making an illegal
campaign contribution, after he was lobbied in particular by the Texas Republican senator Ted Cruz. Again, this is just the latest pardon that
the president has made pretty overtly to somebody who is politically aligned with him, politically defends him on the airwaves. There was
previously the pardon in particular for Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Arizona who has been an ardent defender of the president and supporter of his hardline
views on immigration. So it is interesting to see a president use his pardon power to kind of overtly reward political allies of his. It's
something that past presidents have really tried to avoid the appearance of when they do issue these pardons and they typically issue them in bulk at
the end of their presidencies or at the end of their terms in office. But this president clearly doesn't care about the optics of this and has gone
ahead with these pardons and he is now floating some more.
[15:50:00] GORANI: Right. Rod Blagojevich, Martha Stewart as well. They have some connections to Donald Trump in the past, these two individuals,
if they end up getting pardoned.
DIAMOND: That's right. Rod Blagojevich was on the Apprentice when Donald Trump was the host, of course, of that reality television show. Martha
Stewart had a spinoff of the Apprentice, which was the Apprentice Martha Stewart. So both of them connected to Trump in that way. It is important
to know that Blagojevich is a Democrat. Martha Stewart also supported Hillary Clinton in the past presidential election. Was actually
photographed giving a picture of Trump the middle finger. But both of these people connected to Trump and Blagojevich, in particular, had
recently written an op-ed in which he talked about that there was no more fairness in prosecution, politically motivated prosecutors which kind of
speaks directly and mirrors the language that the president himself has been using about Mueller. On the Martha Stewart count, Rudy Giuliani, the
president's attorney has recently been pointing to Martha Stewart's case where she was convicted of lying to federal investigators as a reason why
the president perhaps should not sit for an interview with Robert Mueller because of the fears that he might perjure himself and open himself to
legal jeopardy in that direction, so both interesting people who the president is now considering for pardons or commuting their sentences.
GORANI: Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thanks very much. And don't miss CNN's interview with former White House chief strategist, Steve
Bannon. Tune in Friday to watch Fareed Zakaria's one on one interview with him. He talks about his hopes for the midterm elections and his plans for,
well, taking populism, Trumpism around the globe. He was in Italy recently and I believe that's where this interview is taking place. 9:00 a.m. in
London, 2:00 in Hong Kong, only on CNN.
Just ahead, Samantha Bee now apologizing after making an outrageous comment about Ivanka Trump. The full story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: U.S. comedienne Samantha Bee is apologizing for using offensive language during a bit on her show in which she targeted Ivanka Trump, which
she says is outrageous and unacceptable. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Ivanka Trump, who works at the White House, chose to post the second most oblivious tweet we've seen this week. You know Ivanka, that's a beautiful
photo of you and your child. But let me just say, one mother to another, do something about your dad's immigration practices, you feckless (BLEEP).
He listens to you. Put on something tight and low cut and tell your father to (BLEEP) stop it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, she used the c word. We bleeped it out, obviously. Not long ago, Samantha Bee tweeted this, quote, "I would like to sincerely apologize
to Ivanka Trump and to my viewers for using an expletive on my show to describe her last night. It was inappropriate and inexcusable. I crossed
the line and I deeply regret it."
Brian Stelter is in New York. So after the Roseanne Barr controversy, now this.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And some people are equating it to -- I think that's a false equivalence, but let's take them one at a time. This
particular Barr case -- this particular bar case from a couple days ago was a clear form of racism. ABC acted quickly by firing her and cancelling her
show. Samantha Bee is a different case. It's a case of hate comment directed at Ivanka Trump. It has been widely criticized today. And TBS,
the channel that broadcasts her show, rather than sanctioning her, suspending her, getting rid of her show, is supporting her statement and
her apology.
[15:55:17] We've just received a statement from TBS which like CNN is owned by Turner, Time Warner. TBS says her disgusting comments -- sorry, taken
the right action and apologizing for her vile and inappropriate language. Those words should not have been aired. It was our mistake too and we
regret it. So I think it's interesting how the TBS to say, we should not have broadcast this episode the way it was. This was scripted. It was
produced ahead of time and that was a mistake. So you have Bee and TBS both apologizing. This is a different case from Barr. But it's another
case of people taking the low road and using crass, inappropriate language instead of trying to lift the discourse, Sam bee was dragging it down.
GORANI: Right. And it's interesting because it was scripted. And it's a pre-produced show. It doesn't go out live.
STELTER: Right. That's right. This was at least a few hours ahead of time. Pre-produced and edited, so that means the writers and producers
were going along with it. There's a lot of blame to go around. Now, it was inappropriate for the White House to come out today and say that there
should be action taken against her. There's a lot of blame to go around on that front as well. We're in the situation now where we are seeing a lot
of different cases of words being policed, jokes being policed, tweets being policed You're seeing different companies take different responses
as a result.
GORANI: Right. And as you mentioned one is a racist comment and attack. And the other is offensive language, unacceptable offensive language.
STELTER: So it brings it kind of to a low road. I think what Bee was trying do is point the finger at Trump's immigration policy. By all means,
let's have a debate about the immigration policy, which is resulting in children being separated from their parents at the border when they try to
cross illegally. But by resorting to profanity -- and that word in particular, which has an especially extreme reaction in the United States -
-she ended up distracting from her point. I know in some other countries, some people might use that word in different ways, but in the U.S., that's
an extreme vulgarity and it backfired on her.
GORANI: Trying to think in French it's actually a familiar way. We won't get into that. But, yes, it is used more in other languages as Europe.
STELTER: Here in the U.S., you knew what she was doing.
GORANI: Without the same consequences.
STELTER: She was going for shock value and it backfired.
GORANI: We got to go. Thanks very much, Brian Stelter. Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CLOSING BELL RINGING)
[16:00:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. All of those smiles and the lovely applause, basically pretty much the polar opposite how the market is
feeling which we see. Take a look here. A complete sea of red.
END
