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Hala Gorani Tonight
Trump Defends Controversial Family Separations At Border; Four U.S. States Refuse To Deploy National Guard To Border; Merkel: Europe Needs Coordinated Approach To Migration; Migration In Focus On Both Sides Of Atlantic; Outrage Over Roma Census Proposal In Italy; Dow Drops As Trade War Fears Escalate; XXXTentacion Killed In Apparent Robbery; Critics Demand End To Family Separations. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 19, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:33]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, Donald Trump digs in his heels on immigration and defends his administration's forced family separations at the border while blaming
Democrats for all of it. We will look into that story.
Also ahead, it's Mr. President, thank you very much. President Macron schools a teenager on proper protocol.
A controversial rapper shot dead in broad daylight. Why some fans believe he may have predicted his own death.
To prosecute illegal immigrants, quote, "you have to take the children away." Those words from the president of the United States, Donald Trump,
today, defending his policy that is causing an uproar across America.
The president meets with congressional Republicans a few hours from now to talk about the force separation of children from their parents at the
U.S./Mexican border. He blames the policy not on his administration but on Congress and more specifically, Democrats. Even though he could end it
with a phone call.
Many Americans are appalled at the sight of children in holding cages like these. The administration has been giving mixed messages on whether they
are being used as a deterrent or not. But one thing is clear, much of Mr. Trump's base supports the detentions. The president is doubling down on
what he calls the monstrosity of illegal immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We want a great country. We want a country with heart. But when people come up, they have
to know they can't get in. Otherwise, it's never going to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, seeing children in cages is heartbreaking enough. But now we are hearing what it sounds like after they are taken from the arms of
their parents. This audio from an American customs facility was obtained by the non-profit group, "ProPublica."
(AUDIO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's get straight to the U.S./Mexico border, CNN correspondent, Polo Sandoval is live in McAllen, Texas. Polo, what are authorities saying
about these detained kids? What do the next few weeks hold for them? Because they cannot keep them indefinitely.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Hala, that's a question here, right, is exactly how long are these children in custody, how long
are they separated from their parents? Who exactly is subjected to the zero-tolerance policy?
I asked that question because what we have seen here on the U.S./Mexico border in the heart of the city of McAllen, Texas. We have also seen
several of these migrant families released from custody, released to some of these shelters with the promise that they will return at a later time
for a court date.
I asked one of the gentlemen from El Salvador that spent two weeks to get here exactly why he thinks that he was among the lucky ones. He and his 7-
year-old son right now are on a but, on their way to Florida.
He tells me he really has no idea. He only suspects it is because he comes here with no criminal record. He didn't have any repeated illegal entry
offenses. The result was he was allowed to go on his way with his son. A temporary freedom until they go back to immigration court, which he says he
does plan on doing.
That he hopes he can at least have that on his side when he goes to immigration authorities. Really, that question does remain, though, Hala,
who are those parents who are separated from their children?
Some of the children are some of the really gutwrenching stories that we are hearing on the ground. Those are the parents that we don't have any
access to.
[15:05:04] They are the ones who are in federal custody so that they can continue with their proceedings and the result is they obviously cannot
have their child by their side, which is what we heard from President Trump.
What he meant by saying that in order to prosecute the parents, you have to take the children away. The way the administration explains that is no
different from any other criminal charge in the United States. If you have to prosecute them, you cannot allow their children to remain by their side
as they continue with these adult detention centers.
GORANI: Right. The decision is being made to prosecute them criminally and to detain them during that process resulting in the separation. Thanks
very much. Polo Sandoval is in McAllen, Texas.
Four American states are now refusing to deploy National Guard troops to the U.S./Mexican border to protest the family separations. One governor
says, quote, "we will not be complicit in this ongoing human tragedy."
I'm joined now by Brandon Judd, the president of the National Border Patrol Council. Thanks for being with us, Mr. Judd. We are seen all over the
world here on CNN International. The United States, as far as we could tell, is the only country -- all countries combined, dictatorships,
monarchies, democracies, the only country in the world that separates immigrant families at their borders. Why is this necessary?
BRANDON JUDD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: I'm unaware that nobody else separates anybody from their family, but what I can tell you
is, you need to look deeper into these separations. When we prosecute somebody for a misdemeanor crime, which is what this is, they are taking to
a magistrate. It takes about seven hours.
Once they go before a magistrate, if the magistrate finds them guilty, the magistrate will give them time served and then they're reunited with their
family within seven hours. Now the vast majority of the people that we are prosecuting is when there is two parents.
So, we leave one parent with the children. We separate another parent. That parent is prosecuted, but again, it's a misdemeanor crime. They are
reunited with the family within --
GORANI: But some of these kids are there for days, are they not in this big detention center?
JUDD: If they are unaccompanied juveniles, yes. So, when you see all of these picture -- again, you have to dig deeper into this story. When you
see all of these pictures of these children that are by themselves, most of those children are unaccompanied. They cross the border without parents.
Then, of course, the media puts the spin on it and says, these are the children that are being separated. That's flat out not true.
GORANI: You mean kids that come with their parents are only separated for a matter of hours is what you are saying, not more than seven or eight
hours it takes to process the parents? They are then reunited?
JUDD: In most cases, they will be separated for a matter of hours to see an administrative judge and then they are reunited with the family. Now,
there are cases like four days ago in McAllen, the place you just saw, we did arrest a father with a 7-year-old daughter. That father had -- was
convicted of rape in the united states. Of course, we're going to separate those two individuals. We're not going to allow a 7-year-old child to be -
-
GORANI: I get that. But of the 2,000, why are there so many more children taken from their parents now? Is it not because there's a decision made to
prosecute the adults entering the United States illegally across the border through the criminal justice system and putting them in adult jails, which
means their kids are separated from them, that that didn't happen before?
JUDD: No, it did happen before. In fact, in 2014, under the consequence delivery system, under the Obama administration, we were, in fact,
separating parents from children if we were prosecuting the parents. This is no different. The policy hasn't changed.
GORANI: But the numbers are incomparable here. During the Obama administration, you know this better than anyone, violent criminals, people
that presented a risk to the safety of people in the United States, those were the ones that were incarcerated, and their kids taken away, not
everyone in the way it is now.
JUDD: Again, that's not true. If we apprehended somebody in the interior. If somebody crossed the border illegally in 2014 on the -- under operation
streamline, the consequence delivery system, we were separating children from parents. We're doing it -- we're prosecuting more people now, but we
did the same thing.
The policy hasn't changed. The only thing that's changed is the public outcry. The media outcry. We didn't have the same media outcry in 2014.
That begs the question, why? Why wasn't there the media outcry?
GORANI: The numbers are the same? I mean, because --
JUDD: No.
GORANI: -- it seems -- right. It seems like it's much -- exponentially higher now. I mean, is this factually incorrect?
JUDD: It's not exponentially higher. In fact, the zero-tolerance policy - - we're prosecuting only about 10 percent to 20 percent of the people that cross the border illegally. We're not prosecuting every single individual
as that case of that one individual that you just spoke of, the El Salvadoran with his child on the bus to Florida. We do not prosecute
everybody.
[15:10:04] But what's most frustrating about this entire question is these people could go through the ports of entry and they can do it legally. The
smugglers don't let them. What they do is they force them to cross the border illegally, which then forces me to deploy my resources to take those
people in custody.
It leaves gaps in the border. The smugglers smuggle their higher profit -- their higher valued products such as fentanyl, opioids, even persons from
countries of special interest. The smugglers are driving this. We're playing into their hands. If we would stop this --
GORANI: You say -- I get that. You say nothing has changed but the media coverage of it. The numbers are the same. The policy is the same. Trump
administration -- you are saying it's a slightly bigger number that are prosecuted and therefore a slightly larger number of kids taken from their
parents, if I'm understanding you correctly.
JUDD: OK, first off, we're not at the border. We're not taking the border patrol. We are taking them so that we can process them. Just like any
other law enforcement agency would do. If you are shoplifting at Target and police are called and you have two children with you, the police are
going to take you into custody, they're going to separate you from your children, they're going to call Child Protective Services.
That's how law enforcement works. That's the way law enforcement has always worked. The difference is, is there's this big outcry. Frankly,
what we're seeing, and in our opinion, it's simply because the media does not like President Trump. They're going to look at anything and everything
that they can do to pick at him and this is now the topic that they're picking at.
GORANI: Well, I'm not sure -- I'm not sure that's true. You have these pictures of sort of chain-link fences, what look like cages, the numbers
are very high. We are talking about 2,000 children. This isn't something we're manufacturing. We have heard from administration officials.
We heard from the mouths of administration officials that this is a deterrent. This is to send a message to migrants who are thinking of
making the trip with their kids, don't even try, this will happen to you. I mean, this is coming from the administration. This is not something
we're making up.
JUDD: Again, same as back in 2014, except for the people that we had in custody was higher. If you had pictures -- I will give you those pictures
-- from 2014, we had more people in what we called bird cages. The conditions were even worse. We had border patrol agents -- the Obama
administration didn't give us diapers or formula.
We had border patrol agents that were purchasing with their own money diapers, formula, toys. They were bringing them into this detention
facility. Again, where was the outcry?
GORANI: But that was then, and I'm not saying there were no wrongs committed during - we're saying this is now -- Mr. Trump himself said you
have to take the children away. Is this the only way to handle migrants coming into the United States undocumented? Is there no other way than to
put 2,000 kids in this environment?
JUDD: Again, when we talk about 2,000 kids, you need to dig deeper into that. Are those unaccompanied juveniles? Are those people separated?
What were they separated for? We love to throw these numbers out, but we don't like to give context to what those numbers are.
Again, you have to dig deeper into the story. If you dig deeper into the story, you will find that the way we handle illegal immigrants today is 100
times more humane, if you will, than what we did back in 2014. I'm not saying that 2014 was right and 2018 is wrong.
But what I am saying is the way that we handle these individuals -- for the very short amount of time that they are separated, yes, it's humane. I
don't see the public outcry just --
GORANI: I wonder why you have pediatricians and psychologists and psychiatrists and many other officials. Father James Martin, who is a
priest, spoke to my colleague Wolf Blitzer a couple hours ago about the separation of families. This is what he had to say. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FATHER JAMES MARTIN, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "AMERICA MAGAZINE": It seems like what the Nazis would do. They created unjust laws and then accused the
Jews of breaking them. The other part I think that smacks of Nazism is this idea that people are just following orders. The people on the border
are following orders, which was the defense used by the Nazis at Nuremberg. I think the comparisons are very apt.
BOLDUAN: How do you react to that? This is not the only person I have heard with that view.
JUDD: That is disgusting. We're comparing border patrol agents to Nazis who killed people? Border patrol agents are not killing people. Border
patrol agents are treating people in a humane manner. We are separating children just like any other law enforcement would separate them when they
commit crimes.
[15:15:09] Why isn't there the public outcry for there? The problem is I don't care if you are a father, if you are a Jesuit priest, I don't care
what you are, if you come in it from a specific political ideology, then you are going to espouse that political ideology. Where was this father
back in 2014? Why wasn't he speaking out back in 2014?
GORANI: I just want to get to the bottom of one thing that you have been saying over and over again, that in 2014 and today, it was basically the
same. Pretty much the same number of people had their kids taken away.
JUDD: I didn't say the same number.
GORANI: Give me the facts so I know. You know -- you have all these facts at your disposal. I'm not saying they have all been separated from their
parents. How many kids have been separated from their parents because the policy, the decision is made now to enforce a policy that processes people
entering illegally through the criminal justice system? How many of those?
JUDD: Of the thousand -- we arrest approximately a thousand people that cross the border per day. That's per day. Of the thousand people that we
arrest per day, it's probably about 200 are children. Of those 200 children that are actually separated for days, weeks or months at a time,
it is a fraction of those people. Again, when you look at -- for what we separate them for. Is anybody advocating to put a 7-year-old back with a
convicted rapist?
GORANI: No. But that's not every case. You took that one case out of a lot.
JUDD: I didn't say that it was every case. I didn't say it was every case, but those cases happen. There will be separation there. The other
thing that you have to look at is we have children that are being smuggled for sex traffic. We have to separate them to interview them, to find out,
are you being trafficking -- are you being smuggled for sex trafficking? Are people saying that we can't do that either? Are we supposed to put
these children back --
GORANI: I don't think anybody is saying that. I think what people are saying is, they are seeing these picture, they are finding it upsetting,
they believe there has to be another way to do things and that the collateral damage of this policy is thousands of children. That's how they
are seeing it. Do you accept that, that this is the collateral damage to some o4 that immigration enforcement of that policy?
JUDD: No. I think that when the dust settles, when all of the documentation is given, when everybody takes a step back and looks at this
from an actual rational angle instead of the knee jerk reaction that we have, when people look at this, they're going to find that the way we
treated these individuals was, in fact, humane.
If you just simply listen to the news, without digging in and finding out the facts, then you say it's inhumane. Again, I'm going to go back to the
father that compared us to Nazis. People that murdered people. You are going to compare us to that?
That's disgusting and that's ridiculous. For anybody to even say that that's an apt comparison -- that's what he used, an apt comparison --
that's ridiculous.
GORANI: Brandon Judd, thanks very much for joining us, the president of the National Border Patrol Council, live in Washington. We appreciate
having you on the program.
JUDD: Thank you very much.
GORANI: We will take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:48]
GORANI: The U.S. is not the only country grappling with the issue of migration, something President Trump is fully aware of. A few hours ago,
he tweeted, "Crime in Germany is up 10 percent. Officials do not want to report these crimes since migrants were accepted. Other countries are even
worse. Be smart, America."
That is not true, by the way. Crime is not up 10 percent. The German chancellor has rejected those claims. She spent the day with France's
president looking for new ways of dealing with Europe's refugee crisis. Angela Merkel said there has to be a coordinated approach on migration and
implied that Mr. Trump's statistics are wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): My reply is that the German minister of the interior has recently presented the crime
statistics. The figures speak for themselves. We see a positive development. Of course, we have to do more to keep fighting crime. These
were encouraging figures that we should continue in this way to reduce crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The tone was very different over in Italy. The interior minister has been accused of racism after he proposed a census of the country's Roma
population. He did so in terms that many people are finding, well, deeply offensive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTEO SALVINI, ITALIAN INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): We will try to understand how we can intervene regarding doing what years ago was
called the census. We can now call it the registry or a picture of the situation to understand what we are dealing with. As for the Italian Roma,
unfortunately, we have to keep them in Italy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Unfortunately, we have to keep them in Italy. Let's get more with Atika Shubert. She's in Berlin. So, first of all, Emmanuel Macron and
Angela Merkel, what -- did anything come out of that meeting? Especially Angela Merkel is having to appease some in her own coalition over
migration.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Both leaders had completely different objectives. For Macron, he was really
trying to get her on board with this euro zone finance reform he has been pushing. Merkel on the other hand, really needs to get a migration plan in
place.
Otherwise, she faces a mutiny from within her own party, a mutiny could even threaten the collapse of her coalition government. So, the two
leaders met today. Both of them declared that this was opening a new chapter for the E.U. They declared there would be an E.U. budget, a joint
E.U. budget, and that would be in effect in 2021.
Part of that, they said, would be a strengthening of the E.U.'s external borders. They talked about giving more money -- specifically to reduce
irregular migration. That's what Merkel in particular is looking for. Some sort of a consolidated E.U. policy to really bring down the migration
numbers.
This is what she needs to deliver to her political party back home. She has two weeks to secure a deal. She seems to be off to a good start with
President Macron. She still needs to convince other E.U. countries as well.
GORANI: Right. The U.S. president has been tweeting a lot about Germany and about how fragile Mrs. Merkel's situation is and her coalition. Is she
at risk here of seeing her coalition crumble?
SHUBERT: We talked about this yesterday. In fact, it's interesting that Trump says that the people are turning against Merkel. She's still the
most popular politician in Germany. That's according to an ARD Media poll. She has an approval rating of 50 percent.
But having said that, she was in trouble over the weekend. It did look pretty dicey, whether or not her coalition government would survive. I
think for now she's at least pushed the crisis away for next two weeks.
If she can come back with some semblance of deal, her odds are pretty good of surviving this political crisis. Again, she does need to come back with
something -- Hala.
GORANI: Obviously, quick word on Italy. The new prime minister in office days basically, and yet again, he managed to offend a lot of people by
suggesting a census of the Roma population, which from what I understand, would be illegal in Italy to conduct a census based on ethnicity.
[15:25:14] SHUBERT: Yes, conducting a census based on ethnicity, as you pointed out, you know, saying unfortunately, we have to keep those who are
Italian nationals here, it's an extraordinary statement from a politician.
But then what makes it even more incredible is that he doubled down on it today, despite the criticism, and said absolutely he is going to order a
census, whether or not -- it apparently seems to be legal. It's pretty extraordinary.
He seems to be taking a page out of Trump's book. As we know, this is the kind of tactic that President Trump has done before. You know, when faced
with a controversial policy, double down on it. As we have been seeing with some of the treat tweeted directed at Germany earlier today.
GORANI: Atika Shubert, thanks very much live in Berlin. Before heading to Germany, Mr. Macron took a moment to school a teenager on a little bit of
presidential protocol. The teenager called him Manu, which is kind of a nickname for Emmanuel. The president didn't like that at all. Take a
look.
(VIDEO CALL)
GORANI: All right. He actually added more of that video on his Twitter page, giving the kid advice on his school and on his education and his
diploma. This was the ceremony to commemorate the fallen heroes persistence fighters of World War II. Did not take kindly to that.
Two words are rattling global markets today, trade war. Investors are selling off stocks amid a sharp escalation in trade tense between the U.S.
and China. Right now, stocks on Wall Street are taking a hit. This is what the Dow Jones is doing. It's down 300 plus points.
The index sank more than that at the open. It didn't recover. This was the picture across the world. Markets in Paris and Frankfurt closed about
1 percent lower. Asia was hardest hit. The Shanghai composite dropped nearly 4 percent.
This comes after the U.S. president warned he would slap a 10 percent tariff on a further $200 billion worth of Chinese goods. Beijing is not
having any of it saying it's going to strike back hard. This makes investors nervous.
Alison Kosik is at the New York Stock Exchange for a quick update. So, there is concern, but you don't sense panic yet.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and part of the reason for that is just because the tariff aren't really happening. They haven't come
to fruition. Right now, all of this is talk. The only tariffs that have come to fruition are tariffs on aluminum and steel.
But the uncertainty, that's what's really fueling the sell-off that you are seeing today. For companies, it's about being able to plan for the future.
It's hard to plan for the future when you don't know if tariffs are going to be down the road. So, it's hard to hire. It's hard to expand.
Because the reality is, if China retaliates and places tariffs on American exports, that makes American products more expensive, less competitive.
That could lower demand for American products and ultimately hurt companies' bottom line -- Hala.
GORANI: And so, the worst hit sector is which one today?
KOSIK: One more time?
GORANI: The worst hit sector among declining stocks.
KOSIK: It's multinational companies like Boeing, Caterpillar, Intel. Intel is an interesting example because Intel has these chips that are
actually made in the United States. But then Intel ships them to China to be assembled and tested and then they are shipped back to the United
States. Those chips, this is one example, could have that tax on it, that tariff, if these tariffs actually come to fruition -- Hala.
GORANI: Alison Kosik, thanks for the update. Currently, the Dow in the last hour of trading off more than 300 points.
Still to come tonight, President Donald Trump presses his case for new immigration rules but continues to defend separating families. What he
says will happen when he meets with lawmakers in a few hours.
Meanwhile, there is a backlash against Fox News and how the network is covering this story. We discuss that with our Brian Stelter next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:06] GORANI: Well, it's a party atmosphere in St. Petersburg where a big match is happening right now. Russia is taking on Egypt. The World
Cup's host. Let me break some hearts. Although my guess is if you're interested in this game, you would not be watching me. But if you are
interested in this game, and maybe have two screens on and has the news on at the same time, I'm going to, of course, have to break your heart,
Egyptian fans. Three-one in favor of Russia. Mo Salah has just scored a penalty in his 2018 World Cup debut match. The Liverpool star is returning
from a shoulder injury so he managed that. Meanwhile, earlier today, Japan beat Colombia, two-one. It is the first Asian country to defeat a South
American team at the World Cup.
In any case, let's get to the fan zone with Fred Pleitgen. So I don't know if like Matthew Chance, you got a kiss this evening from an excitable and
excited Russia football fan. But I presume they are very happy in the fan zone.
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. They certainly are, Hala. I can tell you, this place is really feeling quite
electric right now. I'm going to get out of the way for a second. You can look at the crowd just a little bit. The Russians right now, obviously,
very excited. They've been doing this thunderclap, sort of like the Icelandic fans. But the excitement here is really, really big. And even
before the match, I was speaking to Russian fans, Hala. And they were telling me that since Russian team has been playing so good, the whole vibe
here in the city has changed. The whole vibe here in this country has changed towards the World Cup. And many, many people here have really
gotten on board. There's even polls that say that more people than ever before are watching football in this country. Let's listen in to what some
folks told us earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really, really happy atmosphere. We are really happy to host this World Cup. And it's really nice that everyone is here
and we are here. It's really nice.
PLEITGEN: How do you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just a good festival for us. And we like that we can host all these foreigners in our country and everyone smile and
everyone is happy.
PLEITGEN: Tell me, who do you think is going to win today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Russia.
PLEITGEN: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because Russia is the best team in the world. We love Russia. It's World Cup in Russia. For this reason, Russia will be
winner. It's amazing. It's very (INAUDIBLE) we see too many people here. We're friendly. We're nice. We love this atmosphere.
PLEITGEN: But, Hala, the Egyptians haven't given up yet on their quest to try and spoil that party. They still are trying very hard. I'm looking at
the jumbotron that's out here. Nevertheless, if the Russians do manage to bring this result home, they will have qualified for the next round, which
has not happened to a Russian or Soviet team since 1986. That, obviously, would make the whole mood here in this country even better than it is right
now, Hala.
[15:35:04] GORANI: Right. Absolutely. They do have just a bit of a home advantage there in terms of the Russian team. So, how has this been the
first few days? Let me ask you this. Because there were concerns about whether or not this was going to go smoothly. How has the atmosphere been?
How has the organization been, the logistics? Is everything walking well in the first few days of this cup?
PLEITGEN: I think that there were couple of minor issues, I think at some of the venues outside Moscow -- by and large, the organization, from what
we've been hearing has been going very well. I was able to attend one game myself and certainly if you look at the way people were able to get to the
game, the way the people were able to get back from the game, the public transport, all of that seemed to be working. Generally, you can tell that
people here, once the World Cup started, really started to embrace the tournament. It was interesting, because only a couple of days before the
World Cup started, you really didn't feel that vibe. You had many people who were somewhat critical of having the World Cup here in this country.
Many people didn't believe in the Russian team either.
I mean, many Russians thought that their team was going to be one and done or three and done, as it is, in the opening round of such a tournament.
But I think now that the team is doing so very well for the Russians, it really is something that's spilled over into the entire mood of the country
and that also does a lot for people from various countries who are here getting together and partying with the Russians. We saw that today before
the game started. There were folks in Croatia, host from Africa nation. We were just having fun partying with the Russians getting their pictures
taken together. So, so far it's been a very good vibe. There's been very few -- minor incidents, maybe, along the way. Hala.
GORANI: All right. Fred Pleitgen in the fan zone. Thanks very much.
The U.S. president is digging in on separating families at the border.
Up next, we'll hear from a Texas Democrat and what he thinks of this immigration move. Plus, a look at how other networks are covering the
immigration issue. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: It's no secret that Fox News is friendly to President Trump and his policies, even unpopular ones. Now, one Hollywood producer is slamming
the network accusing it of promoting evil ideas by supporting the forced separation of migrant families. Judd Apatow is urging all employees of Fox
to stand up to their bosses and reject the favorable coverage of what he calls cruelty and child abuse. Here's an example of what we've heard on
Fox News in just the last 24 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: This is one of those moments that tells you everything about our ruling class. They care far more about
foreigners than about their own people.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: No one likes the idea separating any child from any parent, but this issue has been in the hands of Congress.
Right now, the whole issue can be fixed, every law can be changed. And if they did their job, it would happen.
LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: So since more illegal immigrants are rushing the border, more kids are being separated from their parents.
And temporarily housed in what are essentially summer camps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:40:06] GORANI: Summer camps, you've seen the pictures for yourself. You can decide if that's an outrageous statement or not.
Let's bring in CNN senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter. And when you watch Fox News, it's like -- it's a different world that they are
describing.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It is an alternative -- an alternate reality. It's as stark as that. These pro-Trump talk shows on
Fox are supporting the president 100 percent on this. They'll say, OK, this is sad to see the families separated, but we have no other choice and
that's been the tone set from the top. I think it's really notable we are seeing some employees of Fox entertainment on the other side of Rupert
Murdoch's house calling out Fox News. Even one producer, Steve Levitan saying today, he's going to leave the studio as a result. He's one of the
creators of Modern Family which airs on ABC but it's produced by Fox. He says he doesn't want to be associated with Fox anymore, so he's going to
leave the studio when his Modern Family show is over. It's an example of not just speaking out but actually doing something.
GORANI: And there have been -- obviously, we're hearing from the administration as well, speaking of coverage of the family separation. And
one of the things I found interesting is that people are starting online to question why journalists -- White House journalists from the press corps
are not banding together to demand answers during briefings. So when Sarah Sanders doesn't answer a question directly about family separations,
usually you'll have another reporter ask a separate question on something else sometimes. How does it work in those briefing rooms?
STELTER: This is a frustration that so many viewers have. Reporters, they're naturally competitive. They want to bring up their question. They
want to change the topic to what they want to ask about. There's not a sense of collegiality or support for each other in the briefing room. I
think we have heard even our own colleague say there needs to be more of that cooperation between journalists so that if one person's question is
ignored or not answered another person follows up. I do think we are seeing a more aggressive posture by the press corps in recent days and
weeks though. There is a growing frustration with Sarah Sanders and her office. There's a sense that we're reaching a boiling point in terms of
these tensions and there's a severe lack of credibility coming from the White House. I think it's notable today there was no briefing at all.
These pictures of Sarah sanders are from yesterday. There was no briefing today, no attempt to defend this policy. We're not seeing Trump aides like
Steven Miller on television. The only person that's been out today really defending is President Trump himself in a strange speech he gave,
otherwise, unrelated event. He even attacked the media and said that journalists are helping the smugglers. It was a bunch of hogwash. But his
aides are not their on TV defending this policy. It's really the president himself doing it.
GORANI: But it's just -- there are silos now. The Fox News anchors are speaking to a crowd that is preaching to the choir, that is convinced, that
is receptive. I guess the frustration among non-journalists is, we're not getting informed anymore. Sarah Sanders isn't answering questions. Fox
News is already speaking to people who support the president and won't change no matter what he says or does. There's that frustration in the
coverage of this administration. How do you also balance what are lies with repeating that untruth over and over again so that it just gains a
life of its own?
STELTER: Right. I was talking to a linguist named George Lakoff about this recently. His advice was something we call a truth sandwich. You
tell the truth, then you briefly explain who's lying and then you get back to the truth. That way, you're not just repeating mistruths or
misinformation. A great example today, President Trump doubling down on his claim that crime in Germany is way up. Of course, we know according to
the German government crime is down in Germany, down at a 26th year record low. So the way to report that would be to say crime in Germany is
relatively low. President Trump is lying about it. By the way, he's wrong and here's how we know it. A truth sandwich. Makes me kind of hungry.
Also think it might be helpful to the audience at home.
GORANI: It feels so exhausting, as we all know.
STELTER: It always. Right.
GORANI: Because, yes, certainly, it requires a tremendous amount of effort and to also do it in a way that's clever, to construct it so that you don't
give oxygen to the factually incorrect tweet. Thanks so much for joining us, Brian Stelter. Always great talking to you.
More to come, including one of rap's most promising voices is brutally silenced. Authorities in the U.S. are investigating the killing of a young
artist. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:23] GORANI: Some of the music world's biggest names are paying tribute to a rapper that you may not ever heard of, but young people
certainly have. XXXTentacion, he was gunned down in an apparent robbery in Florida in broad daylight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
XXTENTACION: Who am I? Someone that's afraid to let go. You decide, if you're going to, let me know. Yes. Suicide, if you ever try to let go.
I'm sad and low, yes. I'm sad and low, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, that was one of his most popular songs. It is sad. It deals with some of the rapper's demons which were as well publicized as his
music. The 20-year-old was considered a rising star. In fact, he was ranked among Spotify's top 100 artists. Kanye West tweeted, rest in peace.
I never told you how much you inspired me when you were here. Thank you for existing. Some fans though believe the rapper foreshadowed his own
death, something our senior entertainment writer Lisa Respers France has been investigating. She joins me now from CNN center with more on this
story. Talk to us about that.
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN SENIOR ENTERTAINMENT WRITER: He did an Instagram live. We're not sure of the exact date in which he talked about if he were
to die, in his words, if he were too be offered as a sacrifice, as he said, what he wanted his legacy to be. He said he wanted five million kids to
basically understand themselves better and find answers, despite the negativity that surrounded his name. He has a very controversial legacy.
And we're seeing a lot of that play out on social media. Some people aren't sure if they should mourn him. Others are saying that he kind of
maybe got what he deserved. And then other people come back saying that's a horrible way to view it. So he has a very complex legacy.
GORANI: Well, I've never heard of him. The reason we're doing this is because there's been so much interest online and worldwide. So obviously,
people did know him. Usually, I guess, the younger demographic but also worldwide, it gained traction, this story, of the killing of this rapper.
Yes. Why was he popular?
FRANCE: He was considered one of the emerging voices coming out of South Florida. He was very open. But he also -- he had a brutal past. He
talked about very openly about being in the juvenile detention center. He had a roommate that he suspected might be gay and he talked about
strangling that person and beating him bloody and being covered in his blood. He also was awaiting trial for allegedly beating -- brutally
beating his pregnant girlfriend. And so he was one of these rappers -- keep in mind that hip hop comes from the streets. And sometimes these hip
hop artists, they have more street credibility when they've lived these type of like really out there lifestyles, be it drugs, women or violence in
his case. He was beloved by a lot of people.
GORANI: Right. And do we believe that -- what more do we know about the killing? Is this someone he knew or was it, in fact, a random robbery?
FRANCE: Police are investigating. He had just left a motorsports establishment when he was gunned down. They say that a robbery did occur.
Theft, something was stolen from him. So people really looking into this. But of course, given the fact that he had such a violent background, people
are trying to connect the dots and figure out if that had something to do with it. At this point, police are still investigating. So no one can tie
what happened to him yesterday, his murder yesterday. Police have been unable to tie that to anything else in his past that we know of as of now.
GORANI: All right. Lisa Respers France, thanks very much.
FRANCE: Thank you.
GORANI: Back to our lead story. In a couple of hours, U.S. Donald Trump will visit Capitol Hill. He'll talk with House Republicans about their
proposed immigration legislation. Trump says he'll make some changes, but he didn't say what those changes would be. The president claims new
legislation is the only way to end his administration's controversial practice of separating immigrant families. In a speech today, Mr. Trump
declared that immigration loopholes must be closed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:50:14] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As a result of these loopholes, roughly half a million illegal immigrant family units and
minors from central America have been released into the United States since 2014, at unbelievably great taxpayer expense. Nobody knows how much we're
paying for this monstrosity that's been created over the years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: We'll get into that in a moment. But meanwhile, we're learning New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo intends to file a lawsuit against the
Trump administration. His office claims the actions at the border violate the rights of children and families. So with Trump preparing to talk with
House Republicans, let's talk about this with U.S. Congressman Marc Veasey, a Texas democrat. He joins us from Washington. Congressman, this is
happening in your state. What are your thoughts on these family separations?
REP. MARC VEASEY (D), TEXAS: Oh, I think that it's terrible that these families are being separated. And I think that if Donald Trump wants to be
remembered as even a halfway decent president, that he needs to change this course and reverse this course very, very quickly. This is one of the
worst policies that I can think of that has happened in a long time. Separating kids from their mothers, from their fathers, young kids, 3, 4
years old. It's absolutely terrible. And also think that he needs to remove Stephen Miller from the White House. I think that these draconian
immigration policies are being driven by Miller. If you look at his background from the time that he was in high school and some of the
provocative things that he said on race and on immigration, I think he's the reason --
GORANI: And he's one of the top advisers who was also -- one of the architects of the travel ban.
VEASEY: Yes, absolutely.
GORANI: As well Stephen Miller. I spoke with Brandon Judge -- Judd. He's the national border patrol council president. He told me that this is a
situation -- it's not unlike what happened in 2014 under President Obama. This is the media blowing all of this up.
VEASEY: That's a total -- that's a complete lie. That's a complete lie.
GORANI: Right. I presume you have access to more information on numbers than I do. How do you respond to that?
VEASEY: Under Obama's administration, when he was president, there were very few separations. They did everything they could to make sure that
families were not separated. This policy, as was mentioned on CNN by the Attorney General Sessions himself, was that he was going to implement this
policy. Remember, it's guys like the person that you just mentioned that for the last eight years were saying that Obama was not tough enough on
immigration. Other are trying to say that he was the one that instrumented this crazy draconian policy. It's a lie. It didn't even jive with the
things that they have said previously about Obama. It's just complete nonsense and they know this is bad. They know this is going to bring down
Trump and bring down the Republican Party and they're trying to save face.
GORANI: What about legislation? The president says over and over again, this is the Democrats. If only they would play ball on legislation, we
could solve this problem.
VEASEY: Well, that's crazy for him to say that. It shows again he doesn't have a basic understanding of how legislation works. When you have the
majority, which is what Republicans have in the House and in the Senate, you can bring forth good legislation to deal with immigration or any other
policy for that matter that would help the American public whenever you want to. Republicans are choosing not to. Mitch McConnell does not need
Chuck Schumer's help. And again, Paul Ryan can put forth a bill that would have easy bipartisan solutions that Nancy and all the Democrats would get
behind if he would let it on the House floor. Are we going to support something that's worse than this policy that the president is trying to
implement now? Absolutely not. But can he put forth good bipartisan solutions together that people -- that moderates in his own party and
Republicans in his own party can support along with Democrats? Absolutely he can. So he needs to really get moving. And really for Speaker Ryan on
his way out as speaker of the House, I mean, this -- if he doesn't act on this, this is going to also stain his legacy forever, I think.
GORANI: Do you have -- you're a congressman and an elected official from Texas. The National Border Patrol Council president was telling me that
only a tiny fraction of the 2,000 or so kids in McAllen, Texas are separated from their parents for any significant length of time that didn't
come as unaccompanied minors. So in other words that we're blowing it all up. Do you have any numbers?
[15:55:07] VEASEY: I have not -- I have not --
GORANI: Have you been given access or officials -- I know it's been difficult for elected officials to gain access to these centers.
VEASEY: Yes. No, absolutely. We have one senator that was actually turned away. So, no, I have not seen any numbers. And regardless of what
the numbers are, even a small amount or a fraction of the kids, if they're separated from their parents and it's being done intentionally, which is
what the president said when he was speaking at the NFIB today, he said that children had to be separated from their parents in order for it to be
an effective policy, it's just -- it's terrible. It's wrong. It's draconian. It's unchristian. They need to stop.
GORANI: But how do you resolve this? Because from the outside looking in, Washington seems to have become so polarized that there's almost no
consensus possible anymore. With Donald Trump and the White House, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party just don't work together anymore
at all. How do you resolve some of these big issues in this environment?
VEASEY: There's no question that Donald Trump has lost his way and that the Republican Party has lost its way under Donald Trump. But again, I
mean, if you look at this issue of immigration, I can guarantee you that there are Democrats and Republicans that will be more than happy to work
together on a quick solution for this and comprehensive immigration form which is needed badly, particularly in states like Texas, where I'm from,
where you have businesses and families that are desperately crying out for something to be done to help themselves out of the situation they are in
and to help our economy grow. And so there's consensus there. It's just the radical, the recklessness that is happening within the Republican Party
right now. This hard turn to the right, this sort of Stephen Miller, Donald Trump hard turn to the right that is really tearing this country
apart. And tearing the Republican Party apart and making it impossible for us to get anything done in Washington, D.C.
GORANI: Congressman Marc Veasey of Texas, thanks so much for joining us.
VEASEY: Good to see you too.
GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching tonight. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:00:59] RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. Dow heavily down, but way off the lows. It had bene much
further down. All the major markets are down. We'll give you the details dot the I's and cross the T's. And one, two, three.
END
