Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Record Numbers Vote In First Post-Mugabe Poll; CBS Board Discusses Moonves Fate Amid Misconduct Scandal; Trump Hails Fellow "Outsider" Conte; 3D Printable Gun Blueprints To Be Released On The Web. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 30, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:15]
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in for Hala Gorani.
Tonight, all smiles at the White House, President Trump speaks at the White House with someone he calls his new friend, Italy's Giuseppe Conte.
Also, tonight, too enough to vote in Zimbabwe and it is the first time in nearly 40 years that Robert Mugabe will not be on the ballot. We are live
in Harari.
And devastating stories now starting to emerge after a huge wildfire ripped through a California community.
Let's get started with the program, facing a very, very divided public at home, U.S. President Donald Trump is forming a unified front today with one
of his strongest allies in Europe. He and Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte just wrapped up a news conference at the White House.
They talk about trade, the economy, and the need for strong border security to protect against illegal immigration. Mr. Trump again threatened to shut
down the U.S. government if he does not get funding for his border wall.
He very briefly mentions sanctions on Russia saying they will remain as is and he talked about tensions with Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I would certainly meet with Iran if they wanted to meet. I don't know that they are ready
yet. They are having a hard time right now. But I ended the Iran deal, it was a ridiculous deal.
I do believe that they will probably end up wanting to meet and I am ready to meet anytime they want to. I don't do that from strength or from
weakness. I think it is an appropriate thing to do.
If we could work something out. That is meaningful not the waste of paper that the other deal was. I would certainly be willing to make.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have preconditions for that meeting?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No preconditions, no. They want to meet, I'll my meet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Let's get more on all of this from White House reporter, Jeremy Diamond, joining us live from outside the White House. That news
conference, Jeremy, just wrapped up just in the last couple of minutes.
And Donald Trump didn't talk about all of these domestic things that we were perhaps expecting him to talk about. He did, though, double down on
some of his policies at home in particular this willingness to shut down the government should he not get the border wall funding.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right. The president following up on his tweet over the weekend, threatening to shut down the
government if he doesn't receive the kinds of funding that he wants for border security measures, immigration reforms as well.
But interestingly enough, the president has made clear that he is willing to shut down the government, but he didn't say over what exactly. He
didn't draw a firm line in the sand as far as what specific provisions he would need to obtain from Congress in order to sign a spending measure.
So, there was some question after this press conference about what exactly the president wants in his tweet. He had indicated that it would need to
be border wall funding, but he also spoke about merit-based immigration and broader immigration reforms.
So, some questions do still remain about what specifically the president wants to get. But it was interesting to hear him talk about immigration,
particularly next to the Italian prime minister, with whom he shares quiet a kinship not only because both of the men are antiestablishment, noncareer
politicians, who've suddenly ascended to the highest office in their respective countries.
But also, over this issue of immigration where the Italian prime minister is also really struck quite a hard line with respect to the migration
crisis in Europe.
JONES: Jeremy, thanks very much indeed. Let's get more perspective now on all of the things we just heard at that news conference. Our international
diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, is here with me in London.
We are also joined by CNN's political director, David Chalian, and CNN political analyst, Josh Rogin in Washington. Gentlemen, welcome to you.
Josh, to you first, they did talk a lot about common ground, the common ground between the two of them. President Trump highlighting immigration,
trade, as Jeremy was referring to there, and also then saying we're both outsiders to politics, seeming to strengthen their own alliance, possibly,
though, to the detriment of others?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, both leaders reaffirmed their country's support for some institutions that underpin the liberal
world order including NATO and the E.U. In reality, both leaders were brought to power by populist nationalist ways inside their own countries
that challenge those very institutions.
Both have been very critical of those institutions. So, in that sense, they were part of the same movement that sweeping all of the west that
seeks to re-strike the bargain between elitists and the people that they seek to govern in America and Europe.
And that is a challenge to the system that we have been living under. Now we also see a continuity of policy both reaffirmed support for ongoing
sanctions against Russia while supporting dialogue with Russia.
So, this represents a perfect example of the shift in the discussion both in the transatlantic alliance, but that shift is not yet resulted in
wholesale changes to either the institutions of the policy that these two leaders have been critical of this whole time.
[15:05:09] JONES: On the part of Russian, Nic, let me come to you then. There has been a lot talk when these two meeting about this triumvirate of
Washington Rome and Moscow suddenly going up against this sort of the Paris-Berlin block. What exactly does that mean? Why is it relevant to
these two meeting today and why might Macron and Merkel be watching that news conference with some trepidation?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It didn't just feel like move over Macron. The new bromance had been done between the White
House and Rome here. I did get a sense of that. I think look what they were both saying there, which is keep sanctions, but have dialogue with
Russia.
This is nature's mantra as well. You know, there is a price to pay for what Russia started invading Ukraine, annexing Crimea or et cetera, and
meddling in elections attacking democracies has a price to pay.
But the engagement should still be there. So, I think that's a voice that we are hearing from across Europe, but when you hear it from these two
leaders when you hear it from an Italian leader, let's not forget the last Italian prime minister as well, Matteo Renzi, was the first of the European
leaders after Russia annexed Crimea or went into Ukraine was the first to go and meet again with President Putin at St. Petersburg forum a couple of
years ago.
So, there has been that affinity, those strong business ties between Italy and Moscow, but I think what we very clearly hear see is President Trump
cherry picking those parts of Italy's strategic national interest.
The migration issue and an affinity with Moscow's, these are the items that he really wants to highlight because they run concurrently with his issues.
Also, interestingly different as you said to Merkel and Macron.
And you know, let's not forget, President Trump is no fan of a strong E.U. What he does to divide it, it makes him happier it appears.
JONES: David, to you now, Nic just mentioned there this sort of new bromance seemingly budding between Giuseppe Conte and Donald Trump, and
poor old Emmanuel Macron in France looking on in despair. I mean, is it just the case that President Trump is going to heat favor on whoever
happens to be in front of him at that point keeping praise on him at the same time or might just Giuseppe Conte actually get something in return as
a reward for such favorable talk with the president?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, as Nic, was saying I think President Trump is choosing leaders to stand next to, who helped amplify
some of the messages that he wants to send back here domestically in the U.S. I will say it seemed to be a bit of a bromance going both ways.
I mean, Conte was saying that he offered himself up to be to the carrier above President Trump's message throughout all of NATO that he thought his
argument for fair payments, defense budgets, that everyone lifting in equal amounts and that the U.S. not having an unfair burden.
That that was a message he thought he delivered really well and that he wanted to offer to be able to carry through for him.
JONES: Yes, I mean, and to you now, Josh, I mean, on that point of NATO, NATO spending, Italy has been under fire for not spending enough. Donald
Trump obviously now trying to encourage everyone to spend more. Was it surprising to you then that he managed to get Giuseppe Conte, the new
Italian prime minister so much on the side that he was saying, you know, not only will we buy into this kind of everyone needs to pay more, but I'll
take the lead on it.
ROGIN: Well, you know, it will be surprising to me if Italy actually does increases defense spending to reach that 2 percent mark. What is not
surprising is that the Italian leader sees it as in his political advantage to embrace the Trump administration and vice versa.
These are two leaders that are fighting against history, against the tide, against 80 years of sort of consensus that NATO and the E.U. as they were
existing with imperfections at all were producing more good than bad for their people and so their ideological brethren and companions.
But make no mistake, they are also partners in a broader effort to up end European politics and if the Italian leader has that, you know, pretend
that Italy is going to drastically increase his defense spending in order to make that point, that is an easy thing for him to say.
The devil is in the details and in the implementation. And overall, the NATO, E.U. spending issue is kind of a red herring in the sense that the
Trump administration misrepresents the facts on it.
Trump does not seem to really understand how NATO's funding works when he talks about it. It is more of a way to attack the status quo in the
alliance, which both Trump and the Italian prime minister seemed to believe has drifted away from what is in the interests of the people that they
claim to represent.
JONES: David, one thing that all of us who are watching this press conference were waiting for was questions from the press perhaps about more
of the domestic scene that Donald Trump is up against at the moment.
[00:10:04] In particular, the increase in the personal attacks on the special prosecutor, Bob Mueller. Were you surprised that the press did not
put any questions to him about that or was that just sort of clever tactics from the president himself to dodge it?
CHALIAN: That will be part of what the whole design of these events are when he is with a foreign leader and it has two questions aside is to limit
his exposure to all sorts of questions. This is why he has not held sort of full formal news conferences, stand there and take every question,
though, he has done that somewhat recently, been available to the press but not on a regular basis.
So, it doesn't surprise that we didn't hear a question today on that because other important matters such as relations with Iran or what have
you were asked about, but clearly the president was pleased that he did not get any questions about that. When he did get questions about that in
Helsinki, it obviously did not go very well.
JONES: Yes. And with that mind, let's just play what the president's lawyer said on CNN this morning speaking to "NEW DAY." This is Rudy
Giuliani and questioning whether collusion is indeed a crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: They are not going to be colluding about Russians, which I don't know if that is a crime, colluding
about Russians. If you start analyzing the crime, the hacking is the crime. The president didn't hack.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Of course not. That's the original -- as you know, it has led the meeting with the Russian.
GIULIANI: If you got to have information from the Russian here at CNN and you played, would you be in jeopardy as going to jail. Of course, not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: David, not sure if collusion is a crime, is that worrying?
CHALIAN: It's a PR strategy rather than a legal strategy is what Rudy Giuliani is implementing there. He is trying to sort of take one whole
portion of the investigation off the table rhetorically. I don't think it matters much whether Rudy Giuliani believes collusion is a crime or not.
I think it will matter what Robert Mueller puts together in the report that he sends up to Capitol Hill as to what he found in terms of any involvement
from the Trump campaign officials or associates in working with Russia to help Russia's efforts to impact the 2016 election to harm Hillary Clinton
and helped Donald Trump.
JONES: All right. Finally, to Nic now, back to this press conference between Giuseppe Conte and President Trump, it does seem that they are
united by many things, not least a populist movement that brought them both to power in their respective countries.
Encouraged by Steve Bannon, (inaudible) as well kind of binding these two together, perhaps to the detriment of global institutions such as NATO,
such as the G7, such as the E.U.
ROBERTSON: Yes, they did, but you know, to be fair to Conte, he did back President Trump on, you know, on the effectiveness of Trump's intervention
later. So, it was all about NATO unity there. But I think more broadly to what we've seen Steve Bannon doing in Europe recently to the narratives
that we've heard emerging from the populist leaders whether it's Victor Urban in Hungary, who has made it a crime to assist illegal immigrants is
music if you will to President Trump's ears.
He's put up big border fences is often help Montenegrins do that, who incidentally President Trump said might start World War III -- aggressive
people. You know, there is a broader narrative out there and yes, you know, for Italy the migrant issue is a very big and serious issue.
You've travelled in Italy over the last few years, you will have seen the effect that it's had on the country and would now with this change of
political landscape there, we are seeing the effect that is having on the rest of Europe that migrant ship recently diverted not from Italy. The
closest port of call, but to in fact to Spain and it took many days to get there.
So, this populist message is like living doing well, and it would seem on the face of it right now, growing in Europe and to democracies across
Europe, that is troubling.
JONES: All right. Nic, here with me in this studio, David Chalian and John Rogin, my thanks to all of you.
Let's turn our attention to Africa now, and polls have closed in Zimbabwe in an election many hoped will usher in a new era. It is the first time in
37 years that former leader, Robert Mugabe, is not on the ballot and Zimbabweans have been boasting in record numbers.
Mugabe was, of course, forced to resign last year amid military pressure and calls for his impeachment. Our Farai Sevenzo has more now live from
the Zimbabwean capital, Harari. Farai, good to see you. So, the polls have closed as we said. It has been a really high voter turnout. Kind of
a race between two men, who is the frontrunner at the moment?
FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's very early to tell, Hannah. It's way too early to tell, but as you said the voters came out in their big
numbers to vote in what is the first election that does not have Robert Mugabe on their ballot. You know, the enthusiasm for the ballots this time
around surprised me as a Zimbabwean-born citizen. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:15:05] SEVENZO (voice-over): They queued in the dark and as the sun rose as Zimbabweans waited to cast their votes. It was an unprecedented
feeling of watching this unfold. This is after all the country's election in almost four decades without Robert Mugabe at the helm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible).
SEVENZO: Many hope it's a chance for real change. Many like Grace here showing off the signature purple finger to shoe that she has voted. She
says it was simple and peaceful.
Wearing his trademark scarf with the nation's colors, the current president, Emmerson Mnangagwa, the man in charge since Mugabe was forced
out in November casts his vote with a similar message.
EMMERSON MNANGAGWA, ZIMBABWEAN PRESIDENT: The process for campaigning was peaceful. The voting today is peaceful. I will not doubt that the end of
entire electoral process will remain peaceful.
SEVENZO: His main opposition, Nelson Chamisa, the young charismatic leader of the MDC Alliance Party was backed by a crowd of supporters as he voted
in the capital, Harari. Should he win, the 40-year-old lawyer and preacher would become Zimbabwe's youngest ever president.
Dismissed but never far from (inaudible), the country's 94-year-old former President Mugabe, also drew attention at the polls voting near his
childhood home. Grabbing the headline on Sunday when he declared there is no way he'd be voting for the party that has tormented him, throwing away
he believes history appears longer serving leader. But at the polls, the mood has been one of hope.
TARINO CHLAMBINKE, VOTER: I'm expecting to see a lot of change in our country. I'm hoping to see whoever winning setting to make sure that
(inaudible) for the country improving our conditions as a nation so that we'd become the bread basket of Africa that we've always been known for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would expect the counting to take place quickly and for the announcement of the result to be done as quickly as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
SEVENZO: There is (inaudible) of a momentous poll. No one quite knows what dawn will bring, but Zimbabweans have put down their marks for a
future they hope is removed from the shadow of the past.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SEVENZO: There you have it, Hannah. It seems to be that now the story moves to that very contentious issue in Zimbabwean history that of the
aftermath of a vote. Yes, it's been peaceful. Everybody is united in anything a peaceful election, but now comes the story of numbers. Who will
win? We will let you know as soon we find out (inaudible).
JONES: We know you will. Farai, thanks so much. Farai is live for us there in Harari.
Still to come on the program tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I think about is him talking to me and begging me to come and get him out of the fire and he just keep saying, grandpa, come
and get me, come and get us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Haunted by his family's last words after losing them to a wildfire. We're going to be live in California with the very latest on the battle
against those flames.
Plus, how did a plane full of people simply disappear. What investigators are now saying about MH-370 four years on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:45]
JONES: Welcome back. Firefighters are now making progress against a huge wildfire in the U.S. state of California. It's been burning for a week
now, killed at least six people, and destroyed hundreds of homes.
Several of the fires are also burning in the state. Crews are getting some help from the weather, but it comes too late. Some of those who have
suffered unimaginable lost. CNN's Dan Simon is live for us from Redding, California.
And Dan, the weather may be helping now, but it fueled the plains for so long with such tragic consequences.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly, Hannah. I spoke to a guy named Ed Bledsoe, 76 years old. This is one of the most difficult
interviews I have ever had to conduct. Now, Ed, he's lost the most important people in his life. He and his wife, Melody, they were raising
their brand great-grandchildren and have them since birth.
We are talking about 5-year-old James, who they call Junior, and 4-year-old Emily. Now on Thursday night, 7 p.m. Ed decides that he is going to go
into town really to run a quick errand. He has gone for about 15 minutes and he get a frantic phone call saying that the fire was right up on the
door of the house.
And he tries to get back there as fast as he can, and I'll let Ed pick up the story from there. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED BLEDSCO, LOST FAMILY IN CALIFORNIA FIRES: Wonderful, wonderful people. My wife was the greatest woman in the world and my grandkids was excellent.
They are smartest kids in their school. They are getting top honors on everything. They just -- it kills me. When I think about him talking to
me and begging me to come and get him out of the fire.
He just kept saying, grandpa, come and get me. Come and get us. Come and get us, please, come and get us. All I could say was I'm just the down
road, I'm coming. I'm coming. But they won't let me through there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: I can tell you that Ed's wife covered the children with wet blankets to try to protect them, but obviously such a tragic situation.
You know, he says that he was not under an evacuation order. So really, he felt like he was safely when he left the house. The flames were nowhere
nearby.
So, it just goes to show you how quickly this particular fire spread. You know, people that you will hear say that look like a fire tornado, and so
unbelievable story and unfortunately, as far as fire is concerned, things do seem to be getting better.
Right now, we are 20 percent containment. That may seem like quite a low number but compare to where we were yesterday, just 5 percent, so it
appears that crews are making some progress.
JONES: Just so heartbreaking listening to the story of that one great- grandfather that you spoke to Dan. I mean, you mentioned that he said he wasn't under any evacuation order. Has therefore been criticism of the
authorities perhaps for not being fast enough in getting these people to safety?
SIMON: Not in this particular case. You know, as far as the homeowners are concerned, I can tell you that nobody expects a police officer to knock
on the door and tell you, you only have a few minutes to escape. But in this particular case, Hannah, it was unusual because the fire just seems to
come out of nowhere, if you will.
Really like a tornado and it's very unusual phenomenon and firefighters say they have only seen a handful of instances like this in their lifetime.
So, in this particular case, they couldn't get to those areas and warn them because they didn't know it was going to happen.
JONES: Yes. It just one of those tragic things happens too often unfortunately. Dan, thank you so much for your reporting on this and for
conducting that interview with that one gentleman. Dan Simon is live for us there in California. We appreciate it.
Now on the other side of the world, another natural disaster, rescuers are trying to complete evacuation of a mountain on a popular tourist island in
Indonesia. Hundreds of hikers were trapped by landslides on the mountain after an earthquake that has killed at least 15 people.
Kristie Lu Stout has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:25:04] KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): (Inaudible) hikers scramble to get down the mountain with clouds of dust rising from
landslides all around. There are more than 800 people including many foreign tourists hiking on Mount Rinjani at that time. Rescuers set off on
Monday morning to help find hundreds of people still trapped.
Elsewhere, Indonesian president, Joko Widodo, visit survivors to hand emergency supplies and promise more aid.
JOKO WIDODO, INDONESIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): As for Rinjani, the search and rescue agency, disaster mitigating agency and the military
are working together. Hopefully, it will be over soon.
STOUT: Around a thousand buildings were damaged, including many people's homes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are sleeping here at the side of the road because our house collapsed in the quake, so my family and I
have to sleep here. There are other villages sleeping at the locations around here too. We are afraid of aftershocks.
STOUT: The earthquake was centered 50 kilometers northeast of the city of Mataram and at a relatively shallow depth of 7 kilometers, it was felt on
the neighboring island of Bali. Many homes here are not built to withstand strong tremors and rescuers have to be careful of aftershocks while
searching the rubble.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Many houses collapsed in the quake as a 6.4 magnitude earthquake is relatively strongly. In addition, the
epicenter is very close to the northern area of the island. The third reason is that the house structures are not firm enough lacking reinforce
steel bars and a solid foundation.
STOUT: People often feel earthquakes in Indonesia, it is in the ring of fire region of heightened seismic and volcanic activity. But this quake
was stronger than usual and happened while many people were sleeping.
The Indonesian Red Cross are helping to treat the injured and along with the police and volunteers are searching for those still missing. Kristie
Lu Stout, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Now, to one of the great modern mysteries, investigators have a new report but no new answers in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight
MH-370. The news or lack thereof is heartbreaking of course for the families of the 239 passengers and crew.
The plane vanished in March 2014 while heading from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Malaysian authorities say someone on board likely turned the
plane off course, but they do not know why. While they believe it went down in the Southern Indian Ocean, only three definite pieces of debris
have been found since then.
Still to come tonight on the program, one of the most powerful people in U.S. broadcasting is waiting to hear his face after a sexual misconduct
scandal. We'll have the latest on a big meeting at CBS.
We head to Zimbabwe where polls have now closed in one the landmark election. Can today's vote usher a brand-new era for the Southern African
country? More from Harari coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:23] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome back. We're going to return now to Zimbabwe where people have been boasting in
record numbers and a landmark general election. It is the first poll in 37 years without Robert Mugabe on the ballots and many are hoping that a free
and fair vote will end Zimbabwe's status out a pariah state.
So can Zimbabwe finally put the Mugabe era behind it? Well, the first woman ever to be elected is an African head of state, former president of
Liberia, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, joins us now from the Zimbabwe and capital Harare via Skype as she has been monitoring this election on behalf of the
National Democratic Institute and the International Republican Institute. Many thanks for joining us on the program.
As a monitor -- an independent monitor of these elections, to the best of your knowledge, and have they held up to international standards?
ELLEN JOHNSON SIRLEAF, FORMER PRESIDENT OF LIBERIA: The elections today had been historic, had been exciting. The crowds had been massive. The
dedication is calm, peaceful, the process has moved on very well. All of those engage in the process had been expert, you might say. The whole
system, I think, was a center -- it's just been exciting.
JONES: We did have an intervention from the former president, Robert Mugabe, over the weekend. He said he cannot vote for those who have
tormented him, referring to his former party, ZANU-PF. You've spoken in the past of this being a chance in Zimbabwe to break with its path. When
you heard the intervention from Robert Mugabe, ho concerned were you that he might have still some influence over Zimbabwe?
SIRLEAF: No, I don't have a big concern about that, as a voter. And I said this one. And an imminent person in Zimbabwe. He has the right to
express his opinion. But I think the voters today have well made up their mind how they're going to vote who want to see Zimbabwe change and will
reflect this in making the voters given with their constitutional right. And so we don't know what the results will be. We've got a long wait to
wait for that. But I think today is as an example of Zimbabweans really wanted -- wanting to have a new life, wanted to claim the future, wanting
to see their country progress forward. I think that we can say that today is given them that --
JONES: And it does certainly seem to be the case, the latest figures that we're hearing is that - turnout has been high, perhaps up to 75 percent.
Many of those voters, young people as well under the age 35 is -- 35 years old.
In the past, elections in Zimbabwe, under the rule of Robert Mugabe had been tainted by violence, intimidation and the like. There has still been
some concern amongst observers about the transparency of the printing of ballot papers in some areas. Can you clarify that everything was above
board?
SIRLEAF: No. I think we have to wait for full assessment of the result, like I said. We're on the lines, we're in the voting -- votes. We did see
what went on. But I think at this stage, we have to wait until the National Democratic Institute and public administrator put out a report on
it.
JONES: And just finally, as a former African president yourself. How significant is this vote in Zimbabwe, not just for Zimbabwe and so for the
wider African continent?
SIRLEAF: Very important. Africa has been moving toward democracy at a very fast pace. There's been so many peaceful transformation in so many of
our countries. And the Zimbabwe election is (INAUDIBLE) example of strengthening African democracy. And so it's important, not only for
Zimbabwe, not only for Southern Africa, but also for Africa as a whole.
JONES: We very much appreciate you taking the time spoke to us today. Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, many thanks.
Now, he is one of the most influential people in broadcasting in the United States. Perhaps even in the world. Now, CBS chief executive, Les Moonves
is waiting to hear if he still has a job. The network's board is meeting right now to discuss a sexual harassment scandal involving Moonves.
[15:35:11] In a New Yorker article, six women alleged misconduct and said they were retaliated against. Moonves says he's made some mistakes but
insists he has never hurt anyone's career. CNN Money's senior reporter, Dylan Byers is following all this for us in Los Angeles. Dylan, good to
see you.
Other than the fact that these are very serious allegations, why is this a big deal for the rest to the world outside of the U.S.? Why is CBS such a
big player?
DAVID BYERS, CNN MONEY SENIOR REPORTER: Well, sure. In order to understand that, you really have to understand his influence in Hollywood.
He is one of the most widely respected, until now, anyway, widely respected and revered figures I Hollywood. He commends an enormous salary and a
great deal of influence in the media and entertainment industry at large. Now, he is also locked in a battle right now with the chairwoman of Viacom
and CBS, Shari Redstone, who is trying to reunite those two companies. Something he is very much opposed.
So the faith of this company, CBS, one of the three major broadcast networks in this country, that fate is really hanging in the balance. And
should these accusations result in Moonves being fired or terminated from his position. That could play into that larger negotiation that's taking
place.
JONES: Yes. I mean, he's definitely a big player within CBS, you know, the guy behind the Big Bang Theory and lots of other popular programs as
well. If they do decide to oust him, is there an obvious successor to him?
BYERS: There's not. And in fact, again, you're dealing with sort of a singular figure here in Hollywood which is why this is sort of taken the
entire industry and let them really on the edge of their seats, because, no, there is no obvious replacement for him. And this again, it comes at a
time when the faith of CBS is a company really is an open question. And so having that leadership in place is something that the folks in CBS have
been very used to. Obviously you throw all of that out the window.
Now, I should say at the moment, the board of director is meeting here in Los Angeles. That meeting is still underway. And they are only at the
beginning of this investigation into the accusations. They are simply creating a committee that will decide on a law firm to investigate the
claims against Moonves. So we are still days, if not weeks out from actually understanding what his faith will be.
JONES: We know you'll be covering it. Dylan, thanks very much indeed. Dylan Byers, live for us there.
Still to come tonight on the program. Partners in populism. Donald Trump hails the Italian prime minister as a fellow political outsider. So, what
does that tell us then about the changing nature of politics on both sides of the Atlantic? Stay with us, as we take a closer look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:40:10] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are both outsiders to politics. Can you believe it? We are outsiders to politics.
I look at all these wonderful politicians. And we're both determined to protect the rights and needs and interest and dreams of our citizens and we
will do that.
JONES: Two nations, both alike in dignity in fair Rome or Washington where we lay our sin. From ancient grudge, break, and new mutiny. The U.S. and
Italy may have completely separate histories but it seems as though a deep- seated spirit of populism has risen up in both. That may have surprised many in the political establishment, but not one man. The man indeed
credited with masterminding Donald Trump's election win who since been taking his message to the Europe. Who am I talking about? Well, Steve
Bannon. In fact, as he told our Fareed Zakaria just a few weeks back, history will always find a way to repeat itself.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: To where the Campo de' Fiori, one of Rome's great squares who wanted to bring me here and that statue is Giordano
Bruno. Why?
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Well, because he's the original honey badger. He is the guy that just raises such period. He and
Galileo had huge differences for the church about the scientific process and about the natural world. Galileo who's the hero to us today actually
recants it. It was Bruno here that actually was burned at the stake 500 years ago. In fact, I came over here in 2000 and made a film which has
still have been edited about the 500th anniversary of Bruno's execution where he looked up to the -- right there.
Now, what was amazing was at that time was the first time I saw in Europe, that week, all the black flags came out, the anarchist came out. It really
begins, the Antifa movement and this anti-world trade movement was really brought together tens of thousands of people to celebrate. Bruno is their
hero.
ZAKARIA: It is what's pointing out, Bruno was the great liberal at that time, challenging the church and it took -- remember, he was born in 1600.
The statue went up in 1899, because the church and the conservatives objected to him being --
BANNON: It was only when Italy really became a country. Garibaldi and -- all of them that really unified Italy and then break off from the church
that he became and he's a hero of this free world.
ZAKARIA: But it shows me that you're fundamentally not a conservative. You're anti-establishment. Whatever these establishments is you're
against.
Bannon: George Soros said the other day about the Italian elections. We live in revolutionary times. And I believe that. I think you're seeing a
fundamental restructuring of the world's economy and working people's relationship too. And so I'm a traditionalist. I don't know -- of a
liberal conservative in the Tory party in England or even the mainstream Republican Party in the United States. But I'm a populist, nationalist,
traditionalist. And I think that's his movement that we're putting together.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: So, what does the rise of a so-called outsiders tell us about the changing nature of global politics today? Well, political reporter, Silvia
Borelli, is here with here in the studio with more on the significance of this relationship. Thanks so much for coming in. So populism is what
we're talking about. Populism is on the rise not just in Europe, but obviously in the United States as well. These two men, Donald Trump and
Giuseppe Conte have been at the forefront of that. But do they have much in common? We've been talking about this budding bromance. Do they have
much in common aside from just being outsiders?
SILVIA BORELLI, POLITICAL REPORTER: Probably not. But their stances on immigration, which let's face it, it's probably what brought both power at
something that will unite them and going forward might strengthen ties between the U.S. and Italy. Giuseppe Conte right now is flying solo
because he doesn't have much support from his European allies and Donald Trump doesn't get along with Germany's Merkel or with France's Macron. So
probably uniting on immigration and also this message which they've been catering to their bases and have made them so popular is probably what
they're going to be forging ties on.
JONES: I want to take your point from that about and not being -- not getting on well with Emmanuel Macron. A few months back we were all saying
this was the bromance of the century.
BORELLI: Well, that is true. But probably it was more circumstantial. It was a situation where France and the U.S. have to talk. They have to sort
of discuss a number of things. It was a head of the NATO summit, but that didn't really looked like it went that well right.
JONES: So maybe Giuseppe Conte is just flavor of the month or flavor of the week at the moment. He did put an enormous amount of praise on the
U.S. president through that press conference we saw in the last hour or so. And he described him as a great negotiator. In particular, we're talking
about NATO and this is one of those areas that we thought beforehand, this might be a bone of contention between the two of them when it came to NATO
spending given that Donald Trump once everyone else has been more and Italy in particular -- hasn't wanted to spend more in the past.
[15:45:07] BORELLI: Well, originally, it's both those things. So in my opinion, Conte can say as much as he likes at the press conference but
Italian finance minister, just a few days ago said that, Italy's defense spending will fall next year and now it stands just a little over one
percent of GDP. So as much as Conte might say that he's going to go back to Europe and to Brussels and be the U.S.'s messenger on this, it is very
unlikely. Also, because this is not part of the populist program and it will not go down well with the Five Stars which are the left wing of the
populist coalition.
JONES: So, do you think it's all just talk then from Conte that he's just gone there almost taking a leap out of Emmanuel Macron's book as well. He
praised on the U.S. president in front of a crowd, in front of a press. But when he go home, you can backtrack on all of that.
BORELLI: Well, partly, but also let's not forget Donald Trump said he will back Italy as the leader in the Mediterranean and Italy will take the lead.
And for example, Conte was looking for Donald Trump's support around Libya and that's a big blow to France's Emmanuel Macron. So we'll have to see.
It's a give and take situation, really at this point.
JONES: And when you're talking about taking the lead in the Mediterranean, this will come down to the one thing they definitely have common grounds on
and that is immigration. The so-called merit based immigrations that Donald Trump certainly wants to introduce with his border wall and border
policy.
BORELLI: Precisely. So that might be something that the two will actually unite on. And if we see how things have gone down in Europe in the past
few weeks, this tough immigration stands, the refugee both being sent back one, and have to Spain, although Italy was the closest port. We're seeing
things are changing or at least the rhetoric is changing in Italy being louder and being so aggressive in its stance against immigration, against
smugglers. And also against the use of approached immigration is forcing a change.
JONES: This new Italian government then, it's been -- there have been a lot of comparisons made with Italy's fascist parts as well into the
government of Mussolini. Not helped by the deputy prime minister who has recently just tweeted this is Matteo Salvini who basically tweeted a quote
which was very, very similar, it's not identical that something that Mussolini had said in the past effectively saying so many enemies so much
honor in reference to criticism the Italian government was getting about its anti-immigration starts. Do you think that was very deliberate?
BORELLI: I think his tone is always very deliberate and his tweets just like Donald Trump's are always very deliberate, because he caters to his
far right bases. And he is sending a message of Italy first, just like Trump has always been wanting to cater messages America first. And this is
all part of that. Salvini always tries to stress that he's not a racist. He's not xenophobic, but he tries to implement the rule of law and
accountability and law and not letting illegal immigrants is his priority.
So I'm not sure whether the rhetoric is similar to Mussolini's because he wants to be Italy's new Mussolini, but at the same time, he definitely is
hitting the spot on the rule of law, immigration and really tapping into Italian voter's fears and immigration is what is triggering most of these
fears right now.
JONES: And Donald Trump, of course, known for favoring, certainly liking strong man, politics strong man in politics as well. So perhaps they've
gone on and particularly well with that in mind. But if you have Italy first as a policy coming from Rome and you have America first as a policy
coming from Washington, where do they clash? What policies do they clash on?
BORELLI: Well, defense is one of them, for example. Another thing on which Italy will try to hold a very tough stance on with the U.S. is Paris
on luxury goods, for example. So we're going to have to see going forward how these things are going to play out and going to be in the details.
JONES: As ever. Something that both of them probably on not keen on anyway. Silvia Borelli, we appreciate your analysis. Thank you very much
for coming on.
More to come tonight, including no background checks, no regulations, lots of problems. Though 3D printed handguns affect to hit the United States if
they could work. What this could mean, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:00] JONES: Welcome back. Over at Germany now. A cruise company is facing a massive backlash after one of its employees shot and killed a
polar bear. A warning to our viewers. The image that we're about to show you is disturbing. This is the bear killed after it surprised and attacked
one of the ship's guards. Well, that was after the line had made a stop in a Norwegian parts of the artistic. The injured guard is said to in stable
condition.
But there is now fury among environmental activists over how the incident was handled. The Norwegian government says almost every year, a polar bear
is killed in the area after confrontations with humans all just for safety reasons. The cruise line says it's sorry that the incident occurred.
Let's turn our attention now to the United States and several states. Are joined a lawsuit against the Trump administration trying to block the
release of blueprints or printable guns. Starting on Wednesday, Americans can print a gun from home if they have a 3D printer. But is this technical
innovation or just an unnecessary threat? Our Athena Jones finds out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It could be the dawn of a new era in gun manufacturing. Starting as soon as Wednesday, people will be able to use
3D printers to make their own weapons and weapon parts. NO background check required. This after the government settled a lawsuit last month
with a non-profit group Defense Distributed it that will allow the posting of 3D printable gun plans online. A move that's triggering a debate about
public safety and national security.
The group's founder, Cody Wilson, has built a Web site where people will be able to download plans for a handguns, he dubs, the liberator, as well as
digital files for a complete Beretta M9 handgun and other firearms. Wilson's legal battle began after he posted handgun blueprints online in
2013. Leading to a demand from the state department to take them down, because they could violate a law regulating the export of defense
materials, services, and technical data like blueprints. Wilson explained his goal in 2013 interview.
CODY WILSON, FOUNDER, DEFENSE DISTRIBUTED: I'm printing guns, one, is that just exercising, I don't know, experimentalism. Can you print a gun? But
really, for me, it's important. It's like a symbolic political statement.
JONES: He described a future in which people could access unregulated guns.
WILSON: In this future, people will be able to make guns for themselves. That was already true. But now it's been demonstrated in yet another
technology.
JONES: The June 29th settlement will also allow Wilson's site to post online plans for an AR-15 lower receiver. A key component of the gun. Gun
control advocates feared these firearms made almost entirely a plastic would be untraceable and impossible to regulate.
The co-president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence says these parts of the guns would be a national security threat, making it easier for
terrorists and people who can't pass criminal background checks to get their hands on dangerous weapons. Adding, I think everybody in America
ought to be terrified about that.
But experts like Lawrence Keane, senior vice president for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, that firearm industry's trade association say
3D printed guns would have to include metal components to function. And because federal law requires it.
LAWRENCE KEANE, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL SHOOTING SPORTS FOUNDATION: General laws in the mid-1980s under the Undetectable Firearms Act requires
certain amount of metals so they are not undetectable in (INAUDIBLE) for metal detectors undetected or x-ray machines.
JONES: Even with those metal components, the guns would not work well.
KEANE: The truth is, they don't. Many times they fell after a single shot being fired, it break. They're not very durable and they really don't
work.
JONES: He said this sort of high-end printer that would be needed to make a gun cost as much as quarter of a million dollars. And the resulting
weapon's unreliability, means the country is unlikely to see a rush of people trying to print their own guns.
New York senator, Chuck Schumer expressed similar concerns back in 2013.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Felon, a terrorist can make a gun in the comfort of their home, not even leaving their home and do terrible damage
with it. And so the question is, what we do about it.
[15:55:05] JONES: Last week, he demanded the state department and the Department of Justice reverse the decision or postpone finalizing it. And
so that if they don't, he would use emergency congressional actions to block those gun Web sites.
SCHUMER: So we're here to sound the alarm. We're here to plead with the administration not to allow these type of Web sites to go forward with the
planning to on August 1st and we're here to say we'll pass legislation to our best passages, if such a Web site is allowed.
JONES: Athena Jones, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Athena, thank you.
Now, it was the biggest story in years in the Korean Peninsula. So it's only sitting then that one of South Korea's hottest stars should be
offering his take on it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
Have you guessed it what we're talking about? Well, K-Pop star, Big Bang's Seungri tackles the summit, of course, between President Trump and the
North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un in the video for his song, "Where Are You From?" Now, this video has already received more than 2.5 million views on
YouTube since it was released aback of just law week. Cashing in on that summit then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
And finally, a lighthearted ends to the day's news. Or perhaps we should say light-footed. We know that world events from sometimes gets too much.
But did you know that they can also get to too much. Yes, that's right. Look at these incredible pictures. Road users in Mexico City traded their
three-point turns for first positions. Dancers here offering this impromptu performance. The ballet company did it just to brighten the day
for the many frustrated motor souths on the road. Well, as well as promotes theater and dance, of course, to a wider audience.
Their set, well, it lasted just under a minute. Just under a minute and included music from both Swan Lake and Michael Jackson and it is quite
clear that they didn't stop until they got enough. Why they said that. Worst getting in line and in joining the queue just for the entertainment
really.
Thanks so much for watching tonight. Stay with us here on CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
END
