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Hala Gorani Tonight
E.U. Debates Possible Punishment of Hungary; Trump Visits 9/11 Crash Site in Pennsylvania; Reporter Takes Tour of United States and Talks to Trump Supporters; Canada And U.S. Resume NAFTA Talks; Major Hurricane Barreling Towards U.S. East Coast; Dallas Officer Shoots Unarmed Black Man In His Home; E.U. Debates Possible Punishment Against Hungary; Newspaper Doubles Down On Serena Williams Depiction. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 11, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, President Trump commemorates the anniversary of
the 9/11 attacks as the nation remembers lives lost 17 years ago today.
Meantime, big parts of America are bracing themselves for Hurricane Florence. More than a million people are ordered to get out of harm's way.
We'll bring you the latest on that. And Hungary's prime minister hitting back saying he has a right to turn away migrants. The E.U., though, says
Hungary could face some serious sanctions.
17 years ago, on this day and it was a Tuesday, as well, the world changed. It changed forever. We all stood in horror as we watched planes crash into
the World Trade Center buildings and the Pentagon and our perception of terrorism was forever altered and what happened after that is having an
impact on all of our lives to this very day.
The American president Donald Trump chose to mark the September 11th anniversary by going to a place sometimes forgotten in the 9/11 memorials,
Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where United Flight 93 crashed after passengers on that plane fought back against al Qaeda hijackers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On September 11th, 2001, a band of brave patriots turned the tide on our nation's enemies and joined
the immortal ranks of American heroes. At this memorial on this sacred earth, in the field beyond this wall, and in the skies above our heads we
remember the moment when America fought back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, this is President Trump reading off of a script on a very solemn occasion. So, the focus on 9/11 may have proved a distraction for
the president who is facing that still anonymous "The New York Times" op-ed and Bob Woodward's just released book depicting dysfunction in the White
House and didn't keep him from tweeting of alleged collusion he says happened between the Clinton campaign and Russia. Not his campaign and
Russia.
Kaitlan Collins joins me live from the White House and one sampling of the tweets that the president
September sent out. Still on his mind, op-ed, the Woodward book out today and the investigation.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is. All of those things, as we saw yesterday and on the Twitter feed this morning
since the first tweet on the 17th anniversary indeed about the Russia investigation and not about 9/11. But then after that, the president
turning his focus to that and his message as he went to Shanksville.
A very unifying message that the president gave in a somber ceremony where there was some family members of these people and their former co-workers
and the like all there in the audience today as well as several other administration officials going out and delivering remarks including the
Vice President Mike Pence, the Defense Secretary James Mattis among a slew of others really honoring that anniversary as well as White House staff
taking a moment of silence here on the south lawn of the White House today.
But, of course, you can't ignore that once the president returns back here to Washington the Russia investigation and that Woodward book and the op-ed
are still looming large over the White House and just here in the last hour or so with two of the president's former top aides that are featured
prominently in Bob Woodward's book released today. Issuing these nondenial denials of what they're portrayed of saying and doing in the book.
Of course, Gary Cohn is in the book of -- with South Korea. Now, he in the book is quoted saying that he believed he was saving the country by doing
that, by preventing the president from signing that. But today he issued a denial not denying that specific incident but saying he was proud of the
time in the Trump administration, he didn't feel that book accurately portrayed what his time in the west wing was like.
[14:05:00] So, of course, that's still going on. Those are two of the people that the president fumed the most about. And Rob Porter and their
portrayals in the book and certainly it is interesting to see how the White House deals with the anniversary of the 9/11, as they're preparing for that
hurricane that's barreling toward the east coast, there's still a focus here inside the walls of this west wing on this book that's being released
today and on the search for the author of that "The New York Times" op-ed.
GORANI: And one of the things you tweeted yesterday, I believe, is that you took a Uber and after ten minutes of silence the driver said, so who
wrote the op-ed do you think?
COLLINS: Welcome to D.C.
GORANI: Exactly. But are we any closer to finding out?
COLLINS: No. And Sarah Sanders, the press secretary, made that pretty clear yesterday in the briefing here at the White House. The White House
is trying to move on from that. Aides are certainly. Trying to focus the president on this hurricane and on the administration's response to that.
But his mind going back to that "The New York Times" op-ed and his son Donald Trump Jr. saying when he looks around the room at meetings he
doesn't feel he can trust everyone and also the Woodward book accounts -- raising a lot of question for the president of who it is he can trust,
something that's the number one question since he first took office here.
GORANI: Sarah Sanders said they won't use lie detector tests. That's off the table. Thank you.
With the economy going as well as it is, you could be forgiven for thinking that President Trump's approval rating wouldn't take much of a hit.
Usually presidents benefit of a booming economy. However, there is evidence that all the chaos in the White House is, in fact, impacting the
president and the popularity. A new CNN/SSRS poll puts the approval at 36 percent, down 6 points from last month.
Much of that drop because independent voters are losing faith in Trump. Just 32 percent of those surveyed find the president trustworthy. His name
is not on the ballot in November but Donald Trump will have a big impact on the midterm elections considered a referendum on the leadership. CNN's
Martin Savidge is crisscrossing America to find out whether people who put Mr. Trump in the first place still support him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next president of the United States, Donald J. Trump.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump became president not by winning in the big cities people know but winning in the places many people
know little about. The America in between the big cities. The heartland. What people here call the forgotten America. Where people tell you they
work hard, play by the rules, have faith in god and rely on their neighbors. Statistically, these Americans are older, more often white,
less often college graduates. Only thing globalization did for them they'll tell you is shut down the local factory. As America's economy
became tech and service focused, these Americans say they felt left behind. Politically ignored. Almost unwanted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The core foundation of our country is slipping away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, it got to the point I didn't like the direction my country was going.
SAVIDGE: Then came Donald Trump.
TRUMP: I love all the people of our country.
SAVIDGE: Trump, New York City billionaire with the ability to relate with the very dissatisfied group.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He seemed like he had the workers, blue collar workers, in his radar for helping them out.
SAVIDGE: They liked he was a businessman. His tough stance on immigration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not that I'm opposed to, you know, people coming over. But I want them to come over legally.
SAVIDGE: They liked he was pro guns and anti-abortion rights, supported appointed conservative judges and putting America first. They loved he was
not a politician. Not part of what they see as the dysfunction of Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Men in overalls made this country. The men in suits destroyed it.
SAVIDGE: He's a man in the suit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He touched the working people. He stood up for the working people.
SAVIDGE: What about now after the Russia investigation, the scandals, the turmoil and turnover and the tweets? How are they feeling? Satisfied but
exhausted. They see a president who's delivered on many of his promises, tax reform, a strong economy, who ended the Paris environmental accord, the
Iran nuclear deal and crackdown on immigration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he's what I voted for. We wanted a little bit of a change.
SAVIDGE: They would like less turmoil and the Russia investigation most blame on Democrats and Trump's opponents, considering it a --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Political witch hunt. From the get-go. To be honest, it's grace.
SAVIDGE: As for the two women paid hush money of alleged affairs, the voters said they're willing to accept some bad in the man for the good they
see in his policies. Does it bother you that if our president is not always truthful?
[00:10:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not really.
SAVIDGE: They do have advice for the president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish he wouldn't tweet.
SAVIDGE: They're not always fans of his tweeting, believing it distracts from the accomplishments and could suggest a president vindictive, off
balance. There's a sense of fatigue with the political brawling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the man has a lot of capabilities. But sometimes he just lets his mouth overload sometimes. And it's very
unfortunate.
SAVIDGE: Trump voters are tired of being blamed for being like Trump because they voted for Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had to receive comments like, oh, I knew you were a racist. Anti-Islamic, traitor.
SAVIDGE: Many voted for President Obama, not once but twice. There's another r-word that comes up a lot in our conversations. Respect. Trump
voters are bothered that those that didn't vote for the president have never seemed to accept that he won. Do you think he's being treated
fairly?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I think it's awful.
SAVIDGE: In their minds, if you don't respect he's president then you don't respect the people who voted for him and it was feelings of disregard
and being ignored that turned them to Trump. And now, many still feel Trump was not just the right choice but the only choice. How's he doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fantastic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phenomenal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Better than I ever would have dreamt.
SAVIDGE: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Yes.
SAVIDGE: Show of hands who would vote the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Martin Savage there speaking to Trump supporters. All of whom said they'd vote for Trump again. Let's talk more about what's at stake in
the November elections. I'm joined by CNN Commentator and Strategist, Doug Heye, David Swerdlick, a CNN political commentator and "Washington Post"
assistant editor. I was telling the viewers about the latest CNN/SSRS poll. The approval down six points, massive month on month especially
against the backdrop of great economic numbers. What is going on?
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. It is down in the latest CNN/SSRS poll and our latest poll and there's a poll today showing
it's down in the 8 of the last major polls and the average, president's average overall, is down from above 40 to now the high 30s. It is not a
good sign for Republicans going into the midterms.
Look, Democrats have an advantage of about 7.8 percent in the generic congressional ballot which doesn't guarantee that they'll take over
congress but means that Republicans are swimming upstream, probably lose seats in the house, maybe even in the senate, and that is not a good sign
for the president who wants his party to hang on to both houses of congress with all of these investigations, with the special counsel's report looming
in the next coming months.
GORANI: And, Doug, we heard in martin's piece there that die-hard Trump supporters are not moving away from him. However, some independents, some
more moderate Republicans are pulling away. They're pulling their support. What specifically is the reason for that?
DOUG HEYE, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes. You know, Hala, I would tell you like Martin I spent a month crisscrossing the country. I was in Tennessee this
past weekend, Washington, new jersey, all competitive seats and hearing a lot of independents were Republicans who left the Republican party because
of Trump. The other thing I heard overwhelmingly was that voters are exhausted of the constant barrage of Trump centric news. Always loud news
that they have become exhausted with and a pessimism.
Despite the economy, in Nashville this weekend, everyone I talked to at the one dinner I was at, about 12 people said they were voting for the
Republican candidate for senate and everyone said they expected the Republicans to lose. Typically, voters feel that the person they vote for
is going to win. This is because the president's become an albatross on candidates in the country. It's a real problem.
[14:15:00] GORANI: The Republican candidate in primary races, Doug, the more main stream conservative candidates are losing against Trump supported
candidates in Republican primaries so Trump can still, you know, with his support help candidates win in these primary races, Doug.
HEYE: Sure. With his voters, they're Donald Trump voters first and foremost. He says this is my guy or gal, they'll listen to him. And then
talking to a much broader audience coming to the general election and those independent voters who used to be Republicans are turning away.
SWERDLICK: Yes.
GORANI: A big question for us -- David, go ahead. The house, they flip. What about the Senate? Is it in play?
SWERDLICK: Sure. Two quick points. I agree with Doug that, yes, the president is popular among Republican voters but getting the general
election the trick is whether or not he has slippage of persuadable voters, voters that took a flier on him in 2016 but now as Doug said maybe are
exhausted. One of the top-line numbers in the CNN poll was the president's rating on honesty which was 32 percent. Not good as you head into a
midterm election at the head of your party, even if you're not on the ballot. In terms of what's at stake, right.
If Democrats take back at least one house of congress, they will have subpoena power in that house. That means that, you know, if they get the
majority in the house, then the committee chairs will flip and instead of in the house intelligence committee having a Chairman Nunes as a strong
supporter of the president, you have Chairman Schiff of the Democrats who is a strong critic of the president and that can change the complexion of
some of these investigations going on around the president's team and the president's campaign. And I do think that is of key sir concern.
GORANI: Fundamentally, Doug, until Republicans believe that an association with Donald Trump is toxic to them politically --
HEYE: Yes.
GORANI: They really don't do anything too rash on capitol hill, will they?
HEYE: No. Of course not. The thing I hear the most of congressional Republicans is over and over again their voters, Republican primary voters,
telling them that they expect that member of congress, that senator to back up the president every step of the way. The problem is they're is going to
be less of them, there will be less of them and what is concerning for Republicans is every week it seems that the map of opportunities for
Democrats expands and the map of opportunities for Republicans shrinks. We're playing on a different field here right now that's advantageous to
the Democrats and by way of comparison, when I was at the Republican national committee in 2010, our magic number for Barack Obama was 46. We
felt if his approval below that and it was at 45 on election day that we would win back the house. It's not Apples to Apples and Donald Trump is
well below that number.
GORANI: All right. Fascinating. Doug, David, thank you for joining us on the show.
A lot more to come this evening. We watched tennis champ Serena Williams lose her cool at the U.S. open days ago. That moment inspired an image
that's sparking controversy around the world. We'll show you the cartoon that is being called blatantly racist later this hour and we'll speak to a
cartoonist about it.
Military drills and business deals. Russia and China flaunting the relationship for all to see. And guess who's being kept out. The U.S.,
we'll be right back.
[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The largest war games since the Cold War. That is how Russia is describing its own joint military exercises with China. But this isn't the
only kind of cooperation happening right now between the two. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping kicked off the
eastern economic forum showing off their growing economic ties as Moscow looks away from Brussels and Washington, Matthew Chance joins us live for
more on Russia's shift to the east. So, first of all, let's talk about the huge war games because this is really -- there's no western country with
war games on this scale. What is this all about?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, and also, Russia itself hasn't had war games on this scale since the 1980s, since the
collapse of the Soviet Union. And so, that's astonishing in itself and worrying for the western point of view at a time of growing tension between
Russia and NATO, the western military alliance. Whilst I think more interesting which you alluded to is China is invited to take part in these
maneuvers. 3,200 of those military personnel taking part and there are 300,000 of them, so a lot, Chinese, Chinese aircraft, tanks and armored
vehicles, as well. It is just a display of strength and friendship between these two massive Asian, global powers. Russia and China, Hala.
GORANI: How much of it has to do with the fact that they want to forge their own strategic alliance excluding Western Europe and specifically the
United States? I mean, what could it lead to going forward in the future?
CHANCE: Well, Hala, I think it's all part of a broader move on the part of Russia and China to show that they have an alternative to the west. They
have an alternative to the United States. There's a time of both countries under exceptional pressure from the United States in particular, sanctions
in the case of Russia. Trade war in the case of China.
This is a strong message that they will seek and are developing alternative relationships. And that's deeply worrying from a western point of view
because it is forcing these two powers who are previously in years past little over a decade ago regarded each other as adversaries and now treat
each other as allies and really shaped the geopolitical environment in that part of the world and of course globally, Hala.
GORANI: How much of a relationship is there? How much of an economic relationship is there? I mean, politically and diplomatically. Is this
just the beginning of a potentially closer relationship? Where are we now?
CHANCE: It's been going on for a couple of years, really, since 2014 when the relationship between Russia and the west really started to deteriorate
after it annexed Crimea. There are big energy deals. China is biggest importer of crude oil. Russia is biggest exporter of crude oil and driven
further by the extraordinary friendship that's developed of Jinping of China and Russia's President Vladimir Putin. They're both authoritarians
with a, you know, with a reluctance to engage in representative government, shall we say? They have a strong anti-western sentiment between them. And
that's led to this growing, flourishing military and trade partnership between the two countries.
GORANI: All right. Matthew Chance, live in Moscow, thank you.
[14:25:00] After months of some difficult negotiations on NAFTA, the U.S. and Canada have yet to resolve some pretty major differences. However,
there's perhaps a glimmer. Are we about to see serious progress? Canada is returning to talks earlier than expected so perhaps that is a good sign.
The foreign minister and President Trump's trade representative are meeting in Washington today after the earlier talks ended on Friday and the
negotiations have now taken as we mentioned quite a long time. So, and were described as intense. Paula Newton is live in Ottawa with more on
that. First of all, are we going to see some sort of deal soon? Because there's a bit of pressure now put on Canada by the United States.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a lot of pressure put on Canada not just by the United States but Mexico that's pretty much turned
out a bilateral deal with the United States it seems. There is a deadline to the end of September. But I wouldn't bet on it that Canada will hold to
that hard and fast. If they do not get the deal they want. Having said that, right now, Hala, a lot of people watching the negotiations closely
not just Canada but also Europe and China to see what kind of posture there is at the table.
Is there compromise or will Donald Trump decide, look, I do want to punish Canada and show the world that I mean it on trade? Whether it's the world
trade organization or NAFTA, I want to do business differently. For that reason, I think many people, there's about two to three really crucial
stumbling blocks to go through in the negotiation and I don't think, Hala, you would get anyone on either side of this putting down money for a deal
by the end of September.
GORANI: Canada would be presumably hurt badly without a deal. Right? Is that fair to say?
NEWTON: No doubt. Justin Trudeau said that a few hours ago saying that Donald Trump is going to impose auto tariffs. I don't have to tell you how
integrated auto parts systems are, just not between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico but the world and the fact that definitely be an inflection point in
terms of a trade war.
That might be a reason that Canada can get its arm twisted here to do more on this deal and at least get it out of the way so that Donald Trump and
his allies in cabinet can get to the China talks but I think what you are seeing, Hala, is a real test in terms of Donald Trump going into those
midterms and understanding what is better for him right now to look tough in trade negotiations or to seem like a con sill Yes or the as if he could
get things done and the talks are going on just a few steps from the White House but it is Donald Trump who will decide if he likes what is at the end
of the deal. Hala, they continue to talk at this hour. Probably take a pause in the middle of the week and then back at it at the end of the week.
GORANI: Thank you.
Still to come, already a monster but the storm is expected to become even stronger before it slams right into the U.S. coastline. We'll update you
on the path of Hurricane Florence.
And there are some angry protests in Dallas, Texas, after a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed black man who was in his own home. The
charges the officer faces when we come back. Stay with us.
[14:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: More than a million people have been ordered to leave home and head for safer ground as a monster hurricane barrels toward the U.S.
coastline. Officials are saying Florence will deliver a direct hit to the east coast calling it extremely dangerous and life threatening. Category 4
currently is -- it is measured as having that strength. NASA provided this view from space. The storm is expected to only get stronger before it
makes landfall some time Thursday night. Let's get an update now from Myrtle Beach. Normally very busy, tourist spot in South Carolina, but
deserted. Nick Valencia is there. What's going on where you are, Nick?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Hala. We're sort of getting some mixed signals here from officials and from the residents. On one hand, you
have a local mayor and the representative of this district, U.S. Congressman Tom Rice who says that there's been a mass exodus of people
which is explaining why these parking lots are a little bit more empty than they would be for people gathering supplies.
But those that we've spoken to, I would say nine out of 10 people, Hala, that we've spoken to, you know, they say that they're going to stick it
out, that they're going to stay. And that is even still despite the dire warnings from the mayor still pleading with local residents here saying
that this is going to be as catastrophic as one of the hardest hurricanes to hit this area, Hurricane Hugo back in 1989, left several people dead and
they're comparing that storm, the storm it's on its way to that. Even still people are going to stick it out as far as what we've heard here on
the ground. Hala?
GORANI: And when will we know if it will -- I mean, clearly, it could lose strength, right? It could go in another direction. I mean, at what point
will we get a better idea of how strong it will be and where it will hit?
VALENCIA: You know, the National Hurricane Center put out these timely updates. We haven't seen one here in a little bit. We're expecting an
update from them. But one of the last weather models I saw from a E.U.ro model was from the congressman that represent this is district. And that
model had the hurricane hovering over this area this weekend. Just continuing to pour down dump rain and then heading back south.
So there's nothing really between where it is right now and where we are stopping it from gaining strength. It seems to only be getting more
intense. It seems to be widening as the hours pass by. But this is an area, remind our viewers internationally that have gone through hurricanes
before, they've been in this situation before, one resident says that meteorologists have overhyped this. This is certainly, from what we see
with our own eyes, not being overhyped.
And just real quickly, Hala, I was out at last week covering Hurricane Gordon that ended up making landfall as a tropical storm. All the while,
our crew had our eyes on this hurricane forming in the Atlantic. It looked big, it looked massive and that it's only gained strength in the last week.
Hala?
GORANI: And currently it's still a category four. Correct?
VALENCIA: That's right. That's right.
GORANI: OK. Now, the people who are staying, they're nine out of 10, I mean, that kind of anecdotally is what your reporting is revealing. But
those who are leaving, where are they going? I mean, you need a hotel or you need to have relatives. Logistically speaking, we're talking about
tens of thousands of people having to evacuate here.
VALENCIA: You also have to have the resources in order to get out of here. Costs money to leave your home, when you're not planning on it. The local
mayor has encouraged people to go inland. They've put up evacuations. But you bring up a great point. If you are familiar with this area, you know
it's not connected to any major interstate and it's not -- it doesn't have an interstate leading out of it. So you have a lot of two-lane highways
and if everyone decides to leave, sort of at the same time, you're going to have a very, very big problem.
Another thing that is concerning here to the local officials is that this has been an unseasonably wet summer. So you have very saturated ground.
As that rain -- I mentioned, one model has this storm just hovering over this area, over the weekend as it continuous to pour down rain, that's when
you get into dangerous situations of downed trees, downed power lines, even dangerous situations for the first responders.
The representative in this district says, if you are going to stay, there's not going to be anyone here to help you out. They continue to emphasize
that. And even still, I mentioned that anecdote earlier, most of the people that we've spoken to are going to stick this one out. Hala?
GORANI: Nick Valencia in Myrtle Beach, thanks very much.
There are protests today and anger in Dallas, Texas, after a white police officer went into an apartment, not her own, the apartment of a black man,
and killed him. Shot him. The officer claims she got confused and thought she was confronting an intruder in her own apartment. Now, she has been
charged with manslaughter but prospectors -- prosecutors, I should say, say they are considering more serious charges. Andrea Lucia of CNN affiliate
KTVT has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the Dallas Police Department --
ANDREA LUCIA, KTVT REPORTER: Angry voices outside Dallas police headquarters demanded justice for Botham Jean. But four days after his
shooting, there's still confusion over what exactly happened. According to a newly released affidavit from the Texas rangers, Officer Amber Guyger had
just ended her shift. Parked on the fourth floor of the parking garage and walked down the hall to what she thought was her apartment.
An investigator wrote, the door was slightly ajar and fully opened under the force of the key to a nearly completely dark apartment. That's when
Guyger claimed she saw a large silhouette across the room, drew her firearm, gave verbal commands that were ignored by Jean and fired her
handgun. It wasn't until she was on the phone with 911, she claimed she turned on the light and realized her mistake.
[14:35:08] LEE MERRITT, VICTIM'S FAMILY ATTORNEY: We don't know what actually happened. We just know that this story doesn't hold up.
LUCIA: Attorneys for Jean's family say two witnesses have provided details contradicting Guyger's accounts.
MERRITT: They heard knocking down the hallway, followed by a woman's voice that they believed to be Officer Guyger saying let me in. Let me in.
LUCIA: The witnesses, according to the family's attorneys, then heard gunshots, followed by a man's voice.
MERRITT: What we believed to be the last words of both of them, Jean, which was, oh, my God, why did you do that?
LUCIA: And the idea that Jean left his door pen is they say one his family can't accept.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything we know about this young man, this accountant, this meticulous person, is that he would have locked his door.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: For more on this story, let's bring in CNN's Jason Carroll who's in New York. And I think it's -- people are interested around the world in
this story because they just -- a lot of people, quite frankly, can't believe that the woman walks into the wrong apartment by accident. That
there's something that doesn't sound right about this story.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, if you think about it from the point of view from their family, they say once again this man,
Botham Jean, an accountant, by all accounts, kept things, you know, very sort of by the book. Not someone who would have left his apartment open
late at night ajar. That was one thing. There was another point. I mean, listen to what some of the witnesses say about the way that the apartment
was structured, how could it be that she just walked into the wrong apartment not noticing perhaps a doormat, other distinguishing sort of
characteristics about that hallway before entering.
And then again, the sort of discrepancy, if there is one, about what happened before the shots were fired. Again, you've got those two
witnesses, I spoke to the attorney representing the family this morning, and he says before those shots were fired, he says, there was the knocking
at the door. He says then there was -- you could hear two people talking. A man's voice, a woman's voice, then you could hear someone saying, after
the gunshot, "Why did you do that? Oh, my God, why did you do that?" None of that, at least as far as we can tell at this point, none of that was
described in the account that this officer gave.
So that's why you have so much unrest from the family's point of view. But what you will also be having here, Hala, is an investigation. The grand
jury is taking a look at this. The Texas rangers are doing an independent investigation as opposed to the Dallas police. So there's a lot still to
be said about what is -- what is going to be going on in this particular case.
GORANI: But also, she was not coming home from a party or a bar. She was coming off shift. I mean, there's no -- you know, that's part of also the
reason that people believe, how do you mistake someone else's front door for your own? And do we know if they knew each other beforehand as
neighbors?
CARROLL: Well, this is all going to be part of the investigation. And we should also point out, Hala, that a toxicology test, they are awaiting the
results of that on this officer to see if in any way she may have been impaired. They were waiting toxicology reports on that.
Again, it does raise a lot of red flags. How could someone enter this apartment as she said while she was calling 911, turned on the lights, did
not realize, according to what she told investigators, that it was not her apartment until she turned on the lights. So there are a lot of questions
here that the family definitely is seeking answers to.
GORANI: Jason Carroll, thanks very much.
To Saudi Arabia now where a man is under arrest for filming what's being called an offensive video of himself. And it's not what you might call
offensive because the video is of himself having breakfast with a woman. The video went viral and was met with backlash from conservatives in Saudi
Arabia. The highly religious kingdom has strict laws about how unrelated men and women can dine together.
The woman's face is fully covered. You don't recognize her. He has an Egyptian accent. Some say the arrest is at odds with the reform efforts of
Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who's been relaxing some laws on women and on how they can socialize. But then you have anecdotal stories like
this that are certainly leading people to question how reform minded the kingdom has really become.
Still to come tonight, concerns about judicial independence, corruption, and the rights of refugees. Just some of the accusations leveled at
Hungary in an E.U. report and it could bring about serious punishment. The country's prime minister fought back in the E.U. parliament today.
Plus, a cartoon of Serena Williams is being called racist and repugnant because it is. But the newspaper behind it is standing firm. We'll be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:05] GORANI: The eyes of Europe are right now turned on one of its own. Viktor Orban, the firebrand prime minister of Hungary has been in
front of the European Parliament defending his right-wing government actions against -- that the E.U. says it seriously violated some of its
rules. Lawmakers are debating whether to launch a raft of political sanctions against Hungary.
It follows a report that among other things raises concerns about the judiciary's independence, corruption, freedom of expression and the rights
of minorities and refugees.
Mr. Orban didn't take the accusations lying down. He denounced the report of insulting to his country's honor and vowed to resist what he called
blackmail by the E.U.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIKTOR ORBAN, PRIME MINISTER OF HUNGARY (through translator): Every nation, every member state has the right to organize its own country. We
will protect our borders and we will decide who to live together with.
President, let's be straightforward with each other. Hungary is going to be condemned because the Hungarian people have decided that this country is
not going to be a country of migrants. With all due respect, but very firmly, I have to refuse the threats, the blackmailing, the defamation by
forces supporting immigrants and migrant against Hungary and the Hungarian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the report that I was talking about was produced by Judith Sargentini, a member of the European Parliament from the Dutch Green's
Party and she's live in Strasburg.
Ms. Sargentini, you say Viktor Orban poses a systemic threat to the European Union. Why do you think that?
JUDITH SARGENTINI, MEMBER, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: He poses a systemic threat to democracy, fundamental rights and rule of law in his own country, it's
because there's hardly any independent newspapers left. T.V. channels that speak independently have been sold to friends of Viktor Orban. He and his
family are filling the pockets with European taxpayers' money instead of helping their citizens.
Judges that were working independent have been replaced by people more friendly to the regime. What he is doing is taking away basic rights of
his own citizens. This is not about migration or asylum. He plays that game but what he does is not treating every Hungarian equal for the law and
Hungarian citizen is a European citizen and they have rights, individual rights, and we stand for those.
GORANI: So it's interesting that you call a member of the E.U. a regime. I mean, that's usually a term reserved for dictatorships and autocracies,
regime.
By the way, Nigel Farage today in the parliament, essentially said to Viktor Orban in Hungary, join us in Brexit. This is what he said, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:45:00] NIGEL FARAGE, MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: Mr. Orban, you keep saying you want to stay a member of this European Union. But it's not
just your country that's been insulted today. You've been insulted today. Time to be more logical. Come and join the Brexit club. You'll love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Is that, Judith Sargentini, a concern for you?
SARGENTINI: Honestly, no. I think the big mistake that the Brits are trying to leave the European Union and the Hungarian citizens have been
very clear and Viktor Orban knows that. They want to be part of the Union and their economic growth comes from European funding. So that is really
not the issue.
GORANI: So, if the growth comes from European funding and most Hungarians, as you say, want to remain part of the E.U. then how should the E.U. react?
Because what they're saying is, we want the benefits of E.U. funding and E.U. investments and open markets. But for instance, among other things,
we won't take in the share of migrants that should be evenly distributed among the bloc. So, what should the E.U. do then?
SARGENTINI: Well, for that issue, there are a lot of member states that are not taking in their share of migrants so this is not what I'm talking
about when I talk about depriving citizens of their rights. And what the E.U. should have done years ago, because this started in 2010, is we
seriously critical and sanction Hungary, the government of Hungary, let me precise. Because member states have been shying away because it's party
politics.
It's Christian democratic leaders trying to not make trouble to each other and thinking that the commission, the European commission will solve this.
They will not.
And in the meantime, Viktor Orban portrays this as an attack to a country. I like Hungary. I go on holidays there. I don't know whether you know
their wine. It's fantastic wine. Their culture is great. There is a difference between a state and a people and a government and a party.
Let's not mix this up. This is trying to correct something that is wrong. It is a degradation, a serious erosion of democracy.
GORANI: So you think sanctions should be leveled against Hungary by the European Union? Do you think that's the solution?
SARGENTINI: That's what we've got. I mean, I'm a democrat. I use the democratic tools that the European treaty gives us and one of those is that
you can take away the voting rights of a member state of the union, if they do not obey to simple European values and those are the values like equal
treatment of men and women. Freedom of association. Religious freedom. There are a lot of small Christian churches in Hungary that are not allowed
to come together because Orban took away their legal status.
GORANI: But so if the sanctions are not put in place, and Viktor Orban clearly has no intention of backing down, he's playing to his base. He's
popular with his supporters. He doesn't feel politically like he needs to. So then what happens? Hungary becomes this, you know, exception within the
E.U. or one of the few countries within the E.U. that does not abide by the rules that you believe this bloc should embrace? And the values this bloc
should embrace?
SARGENTINI: I hope not. And this is why this vote tomorrow is so crucial. In this week, we're also debating the state of the union. Stocktaking and
looking at the future. Well, this is about the state of the union. And we have European elections coming up in May 2019. We see European prime
ministers panicking.
Yesterday, the prime minister of Austria, member of the Christian democrats says, "My people in the European Parliament should vote in favor of the
Sargentini report." As we speak, there is frantically debate going on in the rooms of the European people's party because they need to find a way to
disassociate themselves from this non-democratic system. Because they want --
GORANI: Do you think this will go through? Because you just --
SARGENTINI: Belgium, et cetera.
GORANI: You just listed some countries there that don't have any intention of supporting sanctions against Hungary.
SARGENTINI: Well, I was surprised, as I said, to see that yesterday Austria, which is also currently leading the Council of Ministers has
changed their mind. And if colleagues from the Christian democrats are going to the polls next May and they have to explain the taxpayer's moneys
from citizens all over Europe is going into the pockets of their family member while they deprive citizens of simple basics as a news medium that
has independent news, then I think this will be a problem for them at home.
GORANI: All right. Judith Sargentini, a member of the European Parliament, thanks so much for joining us.
[14:50:03] We are going to take a quick break. When we come back, that controversial cartoon featuring Serena Williams. I will speak to a
cartoonist for his thoughts on the drawing and what he, in fact, drew for his newspaper and how different that was. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: It's been attacked around the world as a racist cartoon. It depicts tennis champion, Serena Williams. But the Herald Sun paper in
Australia says the cartoon in question has nothing to do with race. And a warning, you may find this image of the cartoon offensive. You've probably
seen it online.
Critic say the style is reminiscing of racist depictions of black people in the U.S. during the Jim Crow era and it's worth noting that Williams'
opponent, Japan's Naomi Osaka, whose mother is Japanese and father is Haitian is depicted as a skinny blonde woman who looks kind of white from a
distance. The paper, though, is not backing down. It's declaring welcome to the PC world about it.
Let's get some insight from someone who works in the thick of this industry. Political cartoonist and author Michael De Adder joins me from
Halifax, Nova Scotia in Canada. So I wanted to talk to a cartoonist because I wanted your take on this particular cartoon before you get --
before we get to what you drew inspired by that story. What do you think of that cartoon?
MICHAEL DE ADDER, CANADIAN EDITORIAL CARTOONIST: Well, it's diametrically the opposite of what I drew, so I don't agree with the message whatsoever.
Whether it's racist or not, I mean, people -- it's interpreted that way, so there's -- interpretation is part of the job. I mean, my job is to take my
ideas up here, put them on paper and have you understand it the same way I do. So, I think it's a bit of a -- if they're denying that they think it's
racist, then I don't know. It doesn't seem like they got their message across.
GORANI: But you drew something completely different. Where it was kind of a split screen. Between John McEnroe and Serena Williams. So, John
McEnroe being outspoken when he was a player and he would have some words with the umpire and then Serena Williams being hysterical. Why did you
choose to draw cartoon in this way in particular?
DE ADDER: I don't know. I watched this Serena Williams incident and I thought she was being taunted by the umpire. So, I drew mine before I saw
the cartoon and it -- my cartoon is just the way I saw the -- this thing unfold. It's just that simple. I didn't agree that she was a baby and
having a tempered tension whatsoever.
GORANI: What kind of response did you get to it?
DE ADDER: I had nothing but -- well, that's not true. I haven't had -- I haven't had the negativity --
GORANI: Well, you're online, right? There is no such thing as nothing but positive. You're going to get negative whether you want it or not.
DE ADDER: Yes. I've had a lot of negative comments about my cartoon, as well. It's other side that usually the, you know, the alt-rights that's
criticizing my cartoon. Mine was criticized but the opposite reason by the other people, the other side.
[14:55:01] GORANI: I want to get to some of your other cartoons, but there was another one, another drawing illustrating the double standards in
tennis. A book of conduct for men. Very thin. And a book of conduct for women. You draw inspiration from the news, obviously. I mean, you're an
editorial cartoonist. One of the ones that caught my eye is you drew when the kids were separated, I believe at the border, by immigration officers
at the U.S. border. There are kids in a cage under the Statue of Liberty.
DE ADDER: Right.
GORANI: I imagine you got also some pretty passionate response to that one.
DE ADDER: All my cartoons get passionate responses on both sides. That's the world we live in. And if you go to Twitter, I mean, I'm a monster or
I'm a hero. It's just the way it is these days with cartoonists. And right now, it's a bit of -- an anti-hero for some I suppose. It's just the
way it goes. I mean, everything is so politicized these days, everything is politicized. Everything's on volume 11. So it's a part of the game.
GORANI: And one you drew also was a -- I don't know if it's a kid or a teen, black, frisked by a white cop against the stone of the Martin Luther
King memorial statue. Again, I wonder, do you ever think twice about what you're drawing? Because you think I might offend?
DE ADDER: Well, I see my job as that of -- to push the envelope. So I see my job as to go across the line. And then when I give it to the
newspapers, it's the newspaper's job to either run it or not.
GORANI: Right.
DE ADDER: They're the ones policing the line. Now, in the case of Twitter and stuff, I just put my cartoons out there. I just -- I like to create
the kind of controversy that's happening tonight except, you know, I don't want to be -- I don't want my cartoons to be considered racist or sexist.
GORANI: Sure.
DE ADDER: In fact, the opposite -- my view -- I've seen a lot of his work. I'm kind of, of the opposite of the kind of cartoonist he is.
GORANI: Yes. Michael de Adder, thanks very much, of the Halifax Daily News, joining us live on the program. We appreciate it.
DE ADDER: Thanks for having me.
GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching the program. And do stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:05] RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It's the last hour of trade on Wall Street and this is how the markets are looking. The Dow is
down very sharply at the beginning.
END
