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Hala Gorani Tonight
Saudi Arabia Is Reported to Make A Statement Soon About the Journalist's Disappearance; Speculation Is That Khashoggi Was Victim of Interrogation That Went Bad; Trump Has A Long History Business Ties with Saudi Arabia; New Brexit Proposal by E.U. Not Getting Support in Britain; Saudi's Facing Financial Fallout Over Disappearance; Marco Rubio: U.S. Must Stand Up For Human Rights; U.S. Joins Ukraine For Military Exercises; Religious Hate Crimes Surge By 40 Percent In U.K.; Baby Fever As Meghan And Harry Tour Australia. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 16, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Live from CNN London, I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones sitting in for Hala Gorani tonight. More
horrific details over the fate of the missing Saudi journalist. We're hearing shocking information now from Turkish officials. This as the top
U.S. diplomat meets the Saudi king and at Saudi crown prince as the U.S. presses for answers. We're live in Istanbul, Ankara and Riyadh ahead.
Also, Theresa May fights to save her Brexit plan. Her cabinet is behind her, for now at least, as she prepares for a Brussels showdown.
But we begin the program with a grim and disturbing update about the fate of missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. A Turkish official has told
CNN they believe Khashoggi's body was cut into pieces after he was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Turkish police spent nine hours
searching the building Monday and Turkey's president said they found fresh paint which could have been used in an attempt to cover up evidence. On
Tuesday as police were poised to search the residence, he flew back to Saudi Arabia.
On Tuesday as police were poised to conduct a search of the Saudi consul's residence, the consul left the country. Turkish news reports say he then
flew back to Saudi Arabia. With reporting indicating that the Saudis may be ready to admit that Khashoggi did indeed die during a botched
interrogation, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo hurriedly flew to Riyadh. He briefly met with the Saudi King and held a longer meeting with the crown
prince Mohammed bin Salman. U.S. officials describe those talks as, quote, direct and candid.
Now, our reporters are across the world covering this story for you. Arwa Damon is at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Clarissa Ward is in the
capital Ankara. And Sam Kiley is in the Saudi capital of Riyadh. And we'll hear also about the continued business fallout, that will be coming
up from Richard Quest who is in New York. And that will be a little later in the show. But we begin our global coverage in Istanbul. Arwa Damon is
there just outside the residence of the Saudi council. The latest sources to CNN with very grim news indeed about the fate of Jamal Khashoggi. Tell
us more.
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it really is great grim and chilling. According to Turkish officials, they say that
Khashoggi's body had been cut up after he was killed. Those are all the details that we have about that at this stage.
We are outside of the Saudi counsel general's home, the barricades up here. We've been waiting for investigators, forensics teams, to be arriving here
because as far as we have been told, the Turks really want to search this building as well. Erdogan who said that inside the building, they found a
toxic substance that may have been painted over.
The counsel general left the company earlier today according to the state news agency. And if you will remember from the CCTV footage that came out
early on in all of this, this is the road that the black van drove down and then it backed into what seemed like it was a small driveway within the
residence of the consul general. Presumably the Turks are hoping that they will uncover a lot more clues inside. But what we're hearing are some very
grim and chilling details.
JONES: And also, President Erdogan making his own statement about the toxic material that may have been covered up as well. He has had a very
vested personal interest in this case from the very start but tell us the latest on that.
DAMON: Yes, he has. Turkey is taking this extremely seriously. This is a criminal investigation for them. They do want to get to the bottom of
this. We're beginning to hear bits and pieces of what they were able to uncover including as you mentioned this toxic substance. It appeared to
have been painted over.
It seems like at least based on these little bits and pieces of information, there was something of an effort to try to cover up whatever
it was that may have transpired within those walls, but all indications point more and more that the killing of Khashoggi did in fact happen there.
This is what the Turks have been saying in various different leaks to local media.
[14:05:00] We have been hearing they do have audio and video to that effect. The Turks have been saying from the beginning with a fair degree
of confidence that they believe that he was killed inside the consulate. They have from he very beginning even President Erdogan himself saying if
you want to try to stand up your claim that he left the building, show us the footage. And we're not seeing any of that and a lot more information
to be uncovered.
JONES: Arwa, thank you so much for your reporting. And now I want to get more on the allegation that he died during interrogation. A longtime
friend of Khashoggi had lunch with him the day before Mr. Khashoggi disappeared. And he joins me in the studio. Sincere condolences of the
news about the fate of your friend. You had lunch with him the day before he left to go back to Istanbul. Was he nervous to go back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. We asked if it was safe for him to go to the consulate and he said I had just been there on the Friday, although they
panicked when they saw him in the beginning, but they received him very well and promised to help him get the papers. So, he felt comfortable and
he was excited this he was getting married. He took the night flight and I took the morning flight. By the time I arrived, he had already
disappeared. We had an agreement that he was going to appear on my TV show from Istanbul. And it took 3 days for to us start hearing from the Turks
that had actually been killed.
JONES: And I know you had an empty chair where your friend should have been sitting. More than two weeks now since he first entered that
building. So many stories, speculation. We're hearing that the Saudis may now be about to say that they knew exactly what did happen to him, that he
didn't actually leave the building as they were originally saying. What do you think happened, what is the most plausible explanation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what my sources in Turkey tell me, I think that they meant to kill him. I don't think that it was just simply an attempt
to kidnap and he that went wrong.
JONES: So not a botched interrogation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think so. They had -- they didn't have for instance a medical expert in anesthesia. They had a medical expert in
anatomy. Why would they need such an expert? They had a saw. What for? According to the Turks from the recordings they have, he was invited to the
counsel's office first. As soon as he entered the office, two men came in, dragged him, started abusing him, beating him, and then they started
interrogating him and that ended with him going completely silent.
JONES: You talked a little bit about how the Saudis have dealt with this over the last two weeks. And we'll come on to that in more detail a bit
later with our correspondents. But I'm wondering what you think broke the Turkish response over the last two weeks and indeed the U.S. response or
the west response given the fact that the Secretary of State is in Saudi Arabia to have talks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the Turks have handled this very smartly because they wanted to have the international community behind them and
they managed to achieve this. They had intelligence evidence and they knew that that probably wasn't admissible in court. So, they needed forensic
evidence. They were pushing the Saudis and they got the Americans ands pressing the Saudis to come up with something. And Saudis were lying for
two weeks.
They came out with contradictory statements. At times claiming he left within 20 minutes, at time claiming they knew nothing. And now we
understand this is the statement that Mr. Trump immediately understood hat they were going to admit that they killed him.
JONES: Let's get on to that are more with our correspondents. My thanks to you for coming in and talking about this. So, let's go back to the
region. Our reporters are live in the two governments at the center of this story. Clarissa Ward is in Ankara. Sam Kiley in the Saudi capital
Riyadh.
Clarissa, we've just been talking about the possibility at least of the Saudis seemingly making a U-turn on this and talking about a botched
interrogation. When might that actually become a formal U-turn and why has it come about now?
[14:10:00] CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is the million-dollar question, I think everybody has expected or been
waiting, growingly impatiently waiting, for this statement to finally be issued. We heard yesterday that the internal investigation had essentially
been wrapped up, that statement was imminent.
We've heard since that statement is imminent. And yet here we are still with no statement. And there is a growing sense of fatigue particularly
here in Turkey where the government I think is starting to feel like it is getting jerked around. They had been given access to the consulate. As
you heard some shocking details emerging. A Turkish official telling CNN that indeed it appears that he was cut into little pieces, his body, after
he had been killed.
But we still don't have the primary account from the responsible party of what happened, why it happened, who orchestrated it, who was privy to it,
and what is going to be done to deal with it now. We know that Secretary of State Pompeo was in Saudi pushing for this. He will be coming to Turkey
tomorrow here to Ankara, be meeting with various Turkish officials. And they will want to feel that Pompeo was successful on his trip to Saudi in
bringing the Saudis closer to recognizing what a big deal this is and the very cold reality that it isn't going away.
JONES: And on that point then, if the Saudis do somehow say that they know what did happen to Jamal Khashoggi, how are they going to be able to
justify the fact that from the very beginning they said he walked out of that consulate building?
WARD: I think that they are going to have a very tough time doing it, but I would anticipate that what they will say is that the operation was
botched and the person who was responsible for it in an attempt to cover their tracks deliberately suppressed information about what had transpired.
So that is part of the reason that potentially the Saudis say that they have been sort of scrambling to come up with this narrative to produce this
narrative, because they are aware of the fact that they were sort of caught off guard here, that they initially made this statement that it is very
clear the reality of that, reality of what happened is nothing to do with that official statement.
So, on the discrepancy looks bad for them and they know it, but if I had to guess or speculate, I would say that they will insist that whoever was
responsible for botching this operation was also responsibility for covering it up. And there won't fly with a lot of people. A lot of people
will have a hard time believing that something that big happened, something that bad goes wrong, and nobody -- none of the grown ups in the building
find out about it.
JONES: And the man who has been sent to Saudi Arabia of course to get to the bottom of this is the U.S. top diplomat, Mike Pompeo. Let's go to Sam
Kiley who is in Riyadh for us. Sam, he was sent there by Donald Trump, Trump announced yesterday that he was going to be on a flight immediately,
sent very quickly indeed. He's had meetings all day with the king and crown prince. What has come out of it so far?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The most dramatic aspect of it is a small reference in the official readout of the meeting
that followed the encounter between Mr. Pompeo and the crown prince which said that Mr. Pompeo had been direct and candid. That is diplomatic for
pretty straight talking.
The official line though post the 15 minute meeting with the king and the 30 to 40 minute meeting with the crown prince is that the U.S. side thanked
the Saudis for their commitment to coming up with results of their own investigation that will be transparent, timely and honest. And on top of
that, the attorney general here has been tasked with opening an investigation.
[14:15:00] But I also understand that there are -- that they were quite close to making a statement. That may have been delayed following recent
revelations. Very hard I think for the Saudis to quite navigate how they can come up with the most convenient truth to this story.
JONES: Yes, and what is Mike Pompeo's objective in being in Riyadh right now? What does he have to return back to Washington with?
KILEY: That is going to be very, very tough for the Trump administration. Saudi Arabia is an absolutely vital ally, both economically, militarily in
terms of intelligence. And it is not just the United States. Many western allies also have a vested interest in a continued relationship. Which has
always been problematic with the Saudis.
There has always been a tension between the real ideals that they want to hold up. But Salman has been tarred with a number of brushes, the war in
Yemen, his incarceration of large numbers of people here in the Ritz- Carlton, an explosive relationship with Canada and a number of other issues that have weakened him somewhat internally and also made the continued
Trump support for his program that much harder to sell on the Hill which is why we're hearing from Republicans and Democrats, notably Republicans,
wanting some pretty heavy retaliation if you like or a withdrawal from such an intimate relationship from the United States.
It will be very tricky. And for the Saudis, equally tricky. This is a very, very hard thing for them to navigate indeed. It could potentially
threaten the entire power structures that exist here.
JONES: And we'll talk more later about the possible financial implication from the international community. For you now, thank you very much.
President Trump has touted his longstanding Saudi business ties, but now that it is drawing fresh scrutiny, he says they don't exist. Tweeting that
he has no financial interest in the kingdom and that any suggestions that he does are in his words, fake news. But that doesn't change the fact that
the relationship goes back decades. And has made him millions of dollars. Here is a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Saudi Arabia has been making Donald Trump rich for decades.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saudi Arabia and I get along great. They buy apartments from me, they spend $40 million, $50 million.
Am I supposed to dislike him? I like them very much.
ALESCI: In 1991, when one of his casino projects was faltering under a mountain of debt, a Saudi prince purchased Trump's 281 square foot yacht
for the hefty price of $20 million. Ten years later, public records show Trump sold the 45th floor of his Trump World Tower in New York to the
kingdom of Saudi Arabia for $4.5 million. In recent years, since Trump took office, his hotels have benefited from Saudi business. Between
October 2016 and March 2017, a Saudi lobbying firm paid Trump's Washington, D.C. hotel more than $270,000 for food and accommodations.
Trump's Manhattan hotel on Central Park West saw revenue increase during the first quarter of 2018. In part because of a visit from Saudi Crown
Prince Salman. According to a letter obtained by the "Washington Post," the hotel's general manager wrote that Salman didn't stay at the hotel
himself but said, quote, due too our close relationships, we were able to accommodate many of the accompanying travelers.
Overall however little is known about the full extent of Trump's relationship with Saudi Arabia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know much about his efforts to open other problems in Saudi Arabia. We don't know who his partners would have been,
who would have financed them. And we don't know if he could restart them again down the road.
ALESCI: According to his 2016 financial disclosure, Trump had 144 registered companies with dealings in more than two dozen countries. Eight
of them were Saudi companies. All of those companies had been dissolved, but as cries for the President to take action against Saudi Arabia grow
louder, Trump's business ties are coming on under new scrutiny.
[14:20:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now of course the larger political question, is this relationship, are these business deals, part of the President's
consideration when he makes decisions about how to go forward.
ALESCI: A spokesperson for the Trump organization told me like many real estate companies, we have explored opportunities in many markets. That
said, we do not have any plans for expansion into Saudi Arabia. When I asked about the other financial ties like the ones I included in the
report, the condo sales for example at Trump Tower, I did not get an answer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Cristina, thanks very much.
More on the difficult economics of the Saudi situation much later on in the program with our Richard Quest. But first the battle of the back stops.
What happens when the Irish border in a worse case no deal scenario. Theresa May and the European Union have very different answers to that
question. So up next, we look at the geography of Brexit's trickiest issue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back. It has been another day of frantic diplomacy across Europe as leaders prepare for a crucial summit on Brexit. The E.U.'s
Donald Tusk is sounding an alarm describing the critical Irish border question as a gordian knot.
Let's try to untangle this. Nina dos Santos is with me. So, we know that everyone has agreed that there needs to be a back stop, but they have very
different ideas about it. So, let's look at the map of the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland as well. Just so everyone knows. This is where
Northern Ireland sits, very much of course part of the United Kingdom. And this is sort of the backdrop if you like for the back-stop battle.
[14:25:00] NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR: That's right. And here is the hard border. This is the only land border that the United Kingdom
would have with the rest of the European Union which is why it is such a contentious issue. The so-called famous gordian knot. But you have to use
creativity and some loopholes apparently to solve this, which is where the issue of the creative diplomacy comes in. With EU's suggestion of a back
stop.
JONES: Which I think we can bring in now. And there has been so much talk about this border, hard border, where it will sit if it will say the
anywhere at all. And now you can see here that the EU's suggestion for the back stop is that it should be down the Irish sea. Why is that
problematic?
DOS SANTOS: Logically speaking geography would dictate that this is a logical place. It means that you effectively use the ports to do the
checks and balances on the goods that would come through those types of ports. The reason why this is problematic, we have had years of sectarian
violence, generations of sectarian violence between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. And the border was an issue for that particular
violence. And so, with the idea of the Good Friday peace agreement, that helped to get rid of this kind of infrastructure and nobody wants to bring
that type of infrastructure back lest violence returns as well.
JONES: And so, the EU's idea of a back stop would be to separate Northern Ireland off from the rest of the UK and have an agreement with customs and
traders keeping North Ireland on its own inside EU rules.
DOS SANTOS: Exactly. And you can imagine this is where the EU has honed in on the soft underbelly of the United Kingdom particularly since at the
moment because the United Kingdom's current government relies the D.U.P. from Northern Ireland to make up the numbers for its votes. And the D.U.P
don't want to return to the hard border or any type of framework that would see they have cleaved off the rest of the country. So, this type of
arrangement is being viewed as a political land grab.
JONES: So also unacceptable to Theresa May as well. She's been clear that no prime minister would ever, ever agree to separate that off. So, this is
her plan then. She is suggesting that the whole of the U.K. North Ireland included would be part of a back stop plan of sharing rules with the EU in
a transitionary role for a temporary period of time.
DOS SANTOS: This is the sort of temporary fudge if you like. So as much as the EU had an issue with where the border would lie, hard line
Brexiteers have an issue with this meaning that the border effective will is outside the U.K. and the U.K. remains inside the EU but doesn't have the
right to strike out on its own free trade deals and that would beholden to Brussels forever. And that is where we come to the issue of timing because
that is the type of issue that she is having with members of her cabinet. They want a time frame to make sure that the U.K. isn't ball and chained to
the rest of the EU.
JONES: So ultimately the Brexiteers, Boris Johnson who we hear from so much all the time, they don't like this idea because they say this isn't
Brexit.
DOS SANTOS: This goes back to the idea of whether Brexit really means Brexit. Now, the thing I should point out is that if for instance this
arrangement isn't actually something that people can come to an agreement on, those who would advocate for going back to World Trade Organization
rules would also have the hard Brexit and say it is not necessarily a bad thing. I've been speaking to a number on the south coast of England and
this is what they say about what comes if we get a no deal Brexit and this type of situation isn't sorted out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOS SANTOS: The Brexit battle bus back from retirement, and so is Mr. Brexit himself. Two years after the referendum, Nigel Farage is on the
road again urging his troops to hold the line against Europe.
NIGEL FARAGE, BREXIT LEADER: The truth of it is that the "remain" campaign never stopped.
[14:30:00] DOS SANTOS: The "leave' campaign won. And you are here campaigning.
FARAGE: The "leave" campaign thought the establishment would keep their promise in delivering Brexit and they are not doing it. So, the "leave"
campaign the people's army, has re-convened.
DOS SANTOS: His brand may not be for everyone. Here on the south coast, he is still a hero for those of a certain age. Are any of you retired?
Hands up if you are retired. You are all retired.
They voted in favor of leaving the EU. It is also one of the oldest towns in Britain with almost a third of its population being age 65 or older.
They say that that means that they remember a time before Britain had such close ties to Brussels. And when it comes to Brexit, it is a hard break
that they are backing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't care if we are a bit poorer. We'll survive.
DOS SANTOS: A Brexit rerun? Polls say that the public would now vote to stay. Here in Christchurch, they say no way. Did you vote leave?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
DOS SANTOS: Would you still vote leave?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
DOS SANTOS: To them, Theresa May is giving away their hard-fought victory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need somebody strong in this country, not the millionaires.
DOS SANTOS: And negotiating in this market town, we did find a man who says that Brexit is a historic mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I may be the only person myself that I definitely think the young people are going to suffer every -- if we actually leave.
DOS SANTOS: But mostly, it's the hard Brexit side that does the talking.
FARAGE: Although we voted for haven't yet being delivered.
DOS SANTOS: The road show continues on into the night, passed the protests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
CROWD: People vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?
CROWD: Now.
DOS SANTOS: To convention hall where a thousand people have gathered. Its beers, souvenirs and the best of the Brexiteers and like any good reunion
taw they play the greatest hits.
RICHARD TICE, BRITISH ENTREPRENEUR: All that this business know that it's always best (INAUDIBLE)
DOS SANTOS: And tear Theresa May's Brexit plan to bits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to chuck Chequers, we can put it into bits.
DOS SANTOS: Nina Dos Santos, CNN, from the south coast of England.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUGHAN: Still to come on the program tonight, grim new emerging about what Turkish officials say happened to the Saudi journalist, Jamal
Khashoggi after he disappeared.
Still the question though remains what will the world do about it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Back to our top story now. New details emerging in the case of missing Saudi journalist, Jamal Khashoggi. A Turkish official tells CNN
that Khashoggi's body was cut into pieces at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul two weeks ago.
Turkish officials are expected search the Saudi consulate's residence very soon. They've already searched the consulate building itself for nine
hours not too close from Monday.
Now Saudi Arabia has been facing mounting diplomatic pressure to explain what happened to Mr. Khashoggi. There could be some financial fallout as
well.
Just hours ago, the London stock exchange announced that its CEO, David Schwimmer will not attend the high profile summit in Riyadh scheduled for
next week. The CEOs of three top banks Standard Chartered, HSBC, and Credit Suisse have also announced their withdrawal from the summit.
Let's get into the potential financial fallout for the Saudis from all of this. Joining us from New York, Richard Quest, CNN's business editor-at-
large and, of course, anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" coming up next hour.
Richard, good to see you. So this conference, Davos in the Desert, as it's called. I guess the optics mean that people are going to pull out now
because it just doesn't look good. But in the long term, money makes the world go round as we all know. So, does that mean that things aren't going
to be drying up in or out of the Saudi Kingdom?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Let's be realists here, Hannah. No. It's going to make a difference in the long run. As long as fig leaf
of reason is put forward, such as the rogue elements that's currently being put forward as being potential or will be put forward.
[14:35:14] As long as there's seem to be some form of justice, however, one defines that then, you know, eventually, of course, companies go back and
investment continues.
And before anybody, any viewer starts getting pressures on the morality of all of that, you have to ask yourself at Donald Trump's point, which is a
very valid point. If we're going to sell the arms, somebody else will.
So I don't think you can use commercial pressure against that. Not without hurting yourself and not without being prepared to pay that price, in terms
of lost business and ultimately lost jobs.
JONES: Donald Trump under considerable pressure from his own stenosis, from Capitol Hill. Let's just have a listen to what Marco Rubio, one
senator, had to say. He's talking about U.S. integrity, if they just give the Saudi let's say a slap on the wrist of this. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: There isn't enough money in the world to purchase back our credibility on human rights and the way nations should
conduct themselves. And we lose our credibility and our moral standing to criticize Putin for murdering people, Assad for murdering people, Maduro in
Venezuela for murdering people. We can't say anything about that. If we allow Saudi Arabia to do it and all we do is a diplomatic slap on the
wrist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Richard, Donald Trump himself has already said that there are other things we can do other than pulling out of arms deals for example. I'm
wondering, what are those other things that the U.S. could do to punish Saudi Arabia that that don't involve some kind of financial sanction?
QUEST: It's very difficult to see. I mean, you've got all the diplomatic measures necessary. But as anybody would agree, that's the -- you have the
sort of the diplomatic slap on the wrist. You have the perhaps withdrawing military cooperation. Well, that doesn't serve your purpose either.
You have perhaps not having such close culture or other ties. All around many of those to begin with. You can basically have a persona and non-
grata policy. Well, that doesn't last very long.
Now, commercial ties are the way to go forward. And ultimately, the biggest and most important pressure comes from the fact that the rest of
the world is turning their back and saying you cannot do this.
Saudi may not like it and they may retaliate. And of course if they do retaliate, they go down too as oil prices go up for a short term benefit,
long term loss and all of that.
So there are very -- there's a reason, Hannah. There's a reason why ultimately everything gets back to normal. Whether it'd be made by
Warrior, with Green Peace or any of the other examples. It's because that's the way it has to be. If there isn't going to be term damage across
a variety of areas.
JONES: And, Richard, you make a good point about viewers potentially watching sort of saying, you know, we've got to look at the morals more
than the money on all of this.
But how much is Saudi investments crucial to us in the west in terms of jobs and in terms of fuel and the like?
JONES: It won't be done like that. It won't be done like that, Hannah. It will be done -- you do the most -- you do the littlest you can to hurt
you the least. Or maybe rephrase that. The most that you can to hurt you the least.
So you push as hard as you can, you make it clear it's an acceptable. And there's one new dimension in all of this and it's the stakeholder economy.
It's a company whose employees, whose shareholders, whose customers say we will not continue to support you if you continue down that road. If you do
not take a stand.
But if you're going to take a stand, you've got to be prepared to bear the commercial cost.
JONES: OK. Richard Quest, thank you so much for your analysis on this. We appreciate it, sir.
And now as we've been telling you, Donald Trump is touting Saudi King Salman's insistence that the king, the kingdom have no idea, whatsoever
what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.
Some analysts say this fits into a troubling pattern of behavior by the U.S. president that we've seen play out with North Korea's Kim Jong-un and
Russia's Vladimir Putin. More on that now from CNN's Brian Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Trump is still swooning over his relationship with Kim Jung-on.
LESLEY STAHL, AMERICAN JOURNALIST: Do you trust him?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do trust him. Yes. I trust him. That doesn't mean I can't be proven wrong.
STAHL: Why would you trust him?
TODD: In an interview with CBS' "60 Minutes," the President noted that the North Korean strongman hasn't test-fired a missile or a nuclear warhead in
several months, something he credits to his interaction with Kim.
TRUMP: And then we fell in love, OK?
TODD: And Trump didn't seem bothered with Kim's track record on human rights.
STAHL: I want to read you his resume, OK?
TRUMP: Go ahead.
STAHL: He presides over a cruel kingdom of repression, gulags, starvation, reports that he had his half-brother assassinated, slave labor, public
executions. This is the guy you --
[14:40:01] TRUMP: I know all these things. I mean I'm not a baby.
STAHL: I know, but why do you love that guy?
TRUMP: Look. Look. I have -- I like -- I get along with him, OK?
TODD: Trump brushed back when pressed on Vladimir Putin and the fact that he hasn't said a harsh word about Putin in public claiming he's been tough
on the Russian President in private. Still, he cut Putin slack over the poisoning of former Russian spy, Sergei Skripal.
STAHL: Do you agree that Vladimir Putin is involved in assassinations and poisonings?
TRUMP: Probably he is, yes. Probably. I mean I don't --
STAHL: Probably?
TRUMP: Probably, but I rely on them. It's not even our country.
TODD: Analysts say this is part of what could almost be called a Trump doctrine, blindly supporting dictators who've shown favor toward him.
MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, AUTHOR: There's no doubt that the President wants to be as strong and as powerful, and to wield that power as ruthlessly as the
authoritarian leaders that he admires.
TODD: Now, the president is at it again, giving wide latitude to Saudi King Salman and his son Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over the
disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
TRUMP: The King firmly denied any knowledge of it. He didn't really know. Maybe, I don't want to get into his mind but it sounded to me like maybe
this could have been rogue killers.
TODD: The President has had a longstanding affection for the Saudi royal family making his first ever trip abroad as president to the Kingdom and
joining a sword dance. And basking in a five-story image of himself on the side of a hotel in Riyadh.
Analysts say Trump's unwavering support for the Saudi royal family and other repressive regimes is hurting America.
AARON DAVID MILLER, THE WILSON CENTER: Once we abandon that moral frame, and we become a country of interests rather than just a country of value --
of values. I think we've already seen it, a diminution and the respect, the credibility and I would argue, in the end, the power.
TODD: But regarding the Khashoggi incident, a Trump biographer takes it even further.
D'ANTONIO: Donald Trump has been going around for years calling the press the enemy of the people. There is blood on his hands when it comes to
Khashoggi because he created the environment that encourages this kind of lawlessness.
TODD: So far, the White House has not responded to Michael D'Antonio's comments that President Trump might have blood on his hands over the
disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi.
Analysts continue to worry that by cutting so much slack to regimes like Saudis, the North Koreans, and to Vladimir Putin that President Trump is
also whittling away America's leverage over these countries not only to get what the U.S. needs from them but also to stop them from behaving badly on
the world stage.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Brian, thanks very much indeed.
Meanwhile, in what could be an intriguing twist, the U.S. seems to be sending a clear message though to Russia by joining with Ukraine in
military air exercises.
The drills are meant to strengthen Ukraine's ties to NATO. CNN's Matthew Chance has more on this changing tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the United States ramping up its military support for Ukraine. These clear sky
exercises the U.S. and Ukrainian warplanes flying wing to wing are meant as a show of solidarity.
But with Ukraine fighting Russian-backed rebels in the country's east, it's also a potent message to Moscow.
MAJ. GEN. DAVID BALDWIN, ADJUTANT GENERAL, CALIFORNIA NATIONAL GUARD: As the Ukrainian security forces and their armed forces become more and more
capable, it allows them to better defend the sovereignty of their country and to deal with the problems that they have internally.
CHANCE: But isn't that immensely provocative? Aren't you worried that, that could pool aviation fuel on the flames of the raging conflict?
BALDWIN: We are demonstrating our resolve. And what we're doing here is not -- certainly not as aggressive or controversial as supporting
insurgence across some other country's international boundaries.
CHANCE: But U.S. military support for Ukraine is evolving fast. In September, the country's president formally took delivery of two U.S.
patrol boats to bolster Ukraine's depleted Navy.
And more controversially, U.S. Javelin anti-tank missiles are now in Ukrainian hands. They've not been used in battle yet. But Moscow says
their deployment crosses a line and encourages bloodshed. It's not just the sky that's clear, but the risk of escalation too.
Well, these joint exercises are just the latest sign of the dramatic changes that have taken place in U.S. policy towards Ukraine. The old
reservations about ramping up tensions with Moscow seem to have receded into the background. While the new policy of training and arming Ukraine
has really started to take off.
[14:45:05] U.S. officials say their support is a response to Moscow's meddling. The U.S. embassy in Ukraine posting a link to these drone images
earlier this month. They showed military vehicles driving in and out Ukraine from Russia, according to international monitors.
"Moscow must stop providing deadly weapons under the cover of night to its proxies in Eastern Ukraine," the embassy said on Twitter.
MARIE YOVANOVITCH, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: How are you?
CHANCE: It is a diplomatic balancing act for the U.S. ambassador, grappling with what critics say is confusion in the Trump administration
towards Ukraine.
And on the one hand, you're arming the countries we've discussed. On the other hand, President Trump has, on occasion, spoken about -- spoken in
what's been described as a deferential way towards Russia and towards Vladimir Putin. Do you believe that America were sending mixed messages
when it comes to Ukraine?
YOVANOVITCH: Well, I look at our policy. And I think our policy is getting -- is a pretty good one towards Ukraine, and is getting stronger.
So, we are providing assistance, as you described. And I think we're on the path to providing more assistance on the security side in this coming
fiscal year.
CHANCE: More assistance, more training, more weapons. The trumpeting you could say of a dangerous new era.
Matthew Chance, CNN, in Western Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Still to come tonight, attacked because of your religion. The disturbing reality faced by thousands here in the U.K. We'll have the
details in the new reports on a surge in religious hate crimes, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Now, imagine being attacked, intimidated, threatened and harassed just because of your religious beliefs. Well, that happens to thousands of
people here in the U.K
The number of religious hate crimes has soared by 40 percent just in the last few years. British police recorded more than 8,000 religious hate
crimes from April 2017 to March 2018. That is according to new data coming from the home office.
And most of those offenses, 50 percent of them targeted Muslims, in particular. Let's bring in Iman Atta. She's the director of Tell MAMA
U.K., a group that measures anti-Muslimism attack. Thanks so much for joining us.
So U.K. crimes, hate crimes up 17 percent over previous year. Hate crimes doubled since 2012 as well. I mean, this is hate crimes in general, but
it's other some racial and religious crimes that all see the biggest increase. How do these, sort of, figures manifested in real life? What
are the kind of crimes being reported to you?
IMAN ATTA, DIRECTOR, TELL MAMA U.K.: So -- I mean, the increase in the level of hate crimes that you've just highlighted are similar to what we've
been receiving at Tell MAMA. So in our data for 2017, we've seen an increase and 30 percent of the reports coming into our side are (INAUDIBLE)
human nature.
[14:50:09] These reports range from aggressive behavior to abusive behavior, physical assaults, vandalism to attacks on institutions, attacks
on private properties. But majority really take place on the street level, 70 percent of these cases take place on a street level.
JONES: Between strangers?
ATTA: Between victims and perpetrators. So actually between perpetrators who are super opportunistic. They tend to abuse individuals in public
areas or in public transports, as these figures have showed.
They're super opportunistic because they pass by victims, they just abuse them and they just walk off or they offer annexations. That's super
opportunistic and it's usually as well where the victims and the perpetrators approximately is very cruel. So they use that abuse someone
and get off.
JONES: You talk about being it opportunistic, the majority of these crimes. However, I know that some of the state or I think we can bring up
the graph now shows when hate crimes spike. And in particular, they spike -- it spiked last year when we have that spate of terror attacks across the
U.K. And I think you can see here, May and June, of course, May was -- we have the Westminster Bridge attack. We have the Manchester terror bombing,
of course. And June as well, the London bridge attack.
You can see very clearly the spike there. So that's not opportunistic. That is the direct result with you say of what happened in the society.
ATTA: There's multiple factors that we can attribute this rise still and we've been seeing it in 2015, following terrorist attacks that took place
in Paris, whether it's the (INAUDIBLE) in November. Tit was seen in 2016 with the Brexit.
The hearts of the year in June we've seen a sharp rise in racism, discrimination against anyone who is different, not only even just with
some committees. But 2017 have seen five major triggers incidents in the U.K. Terrorist attacks, five, not only one. Westminster Bridge,
Manchester, the London Bridge attack, then we've had the Finsbury Park (INAUDIBLE) that thankfully did cut.
JONES: Interesting that you've mentioned Finsbury Park though given the fact that that was an attack on --
ATTA: On Muslims.
JONES: Was there a particular spike then in anti-Muslim religious crimes?
ATTA: Absolutely. Absolutely. The levels of reports that we've received did not go down. They continue to be high because you cannot just
attribute it to these trigger events. There is far-right rhetoric and some hatred on the back of terrorist attacks and on a daily basis. Whether it's
on the online world or whether it's on a street level. There's media headlines that are highly anti-Muslim and Islamophobic. There's political
discourse actually Islamophobic as well as anti-Semitic.
And then you have really, as well, people coming forward to report an incident, so we attributed to multiple factors that have driven that rise
that we've seen in 2017.
JONES: Disturbing figures. Thank you very much for explaining them for us. And thank you for your work, Iman Atta. We appreciate you coming in.
We've got an update to bring you now on our top story though. In the last few minutes, we have heard from President Trump via Twitter, he said, "Just
spoke with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia who totally denied any knowledge of what took place in their Turkish consulate. He was with
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo during the call and told me that he has already started and will rapidly expand a full and complete investigation
in this matter. Answers will be forthcoming shortly."
So we've been waiting to see what the Trump administration might say in the aftermath of Mike Pompeo being in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia talking to King
Salman and the Crown Prince as well. That's the very latest from Donald Trump on Twitter.
All right. More to come tonight including, it's been only 24 hours and the baby gifts have already started for Harry and Meghan. We have the very
latest at the royal begins their tour of Australia.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:15] JONES: It's been barely 24 hours, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex announced that they were expecting. But there was a downtime for
either one of them. Harry and Meghan are in Australia kicking off a 16-day tour. And as Max Foster explains, they are getting baby gifts already.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A first glimpse of a royal baby bump. The secrets finally out for Prince Harry and his new wife,
Meghan, as they begin their first major overseas tour as a couple in Australia.
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: And we also genuinely couldn't think of a better place to announce the upcoming baby. We had a boy or a girl, so
thank you very, very much.
FOSTER: Well-wishers congratulated the couple who announced her pregnancy on Monday, confirming weeks of rumors. Their first baby is due in the
spring. Congratulations also came from one of Harry's oldest fans, 98- year-old Australian Daphne Dunne, whom the prince has met twice before.
This time, he was able to introduce Daphne to Meghan. Daphne told Meghan, "It's wonderful the two of you," and that she was just what Harry needs.
Meghan said she hopes the next time they see Daphne, they would have a little one in tow.
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex also met Australia's unofficial ambassador, the Koala at Taronga Zoo in Sydney where they open a new learning center.
And the official welcoming committee, Australia's governor general, Peter Cosgrove and his wife Lynne, served them tea and beer. And presented them
with a toy kangaroo with a baby roo in its pouch, awesome tiny kangaroo.
The royal couple also post in front of Sydney's royal opera house and met representatives of the fourth Invictus Games. A sports competition that
Prince Harry founded through wounded veterans which kicks off on Saturday.
Back home in the U.K., speculation is already ripe for the name of the new royal baby who will be so in line to the throne. Albert, Victoria, and
Diana are amongst the favorites for the British bookies, at least. The child won't automatically become a prince or a princess, though the queen
may decide to give them that title as they did with Prince William's children.
Harry and Meghan continue their 16-day tour with visits to Melbourne and Queensland before flying to Fiji, Tonga, and New Zealand.
Max Foster, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Now, we'd like to end on a happy note, but we should just give you a reminder of our top story, a very important story indeed. The Turkish
official has told CNN they believed Jamal Khashoggi's body was cut into pieces after he was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
Turkish police had nine hours searching that building on Monday. They've continued searching as well today. And in the last few minutes, we've
heard from President Trump who's taken to Twitter to make his most recent comments on this, Mike Pompeo being in Riyadh saying, "Just spoke with the
Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia who totally denied any knowledge of what took place. He was with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, during our call and
told me that he has already started full and complete investigation into this matter." He end the tweeting, "Answers will be forthcoming shortly."
Well, we're all ears waiting to hear, of course, our correspondents remain across it.
Thank you so much for watching tonight. Appreciate your company. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" comes up after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:10] QUEST: We're an hour away from the closing bell on Wall Street.
END
