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Hala Gorani Tonight
World Leaders Gather to Mark 100 Years Since the End of World War I; Merkel Condemns A Worrying Resurgence in Anti-Semitism; Trump Suggests Fraud in Florida Vote Count but Cites No Evidence; "Wall Street Journal" Says Feds Gather Evidence of Trump Involvement in Payments That Violated Campaign Finance Laws; British Government Minister Resigns Over Brexit; Deadly Melbourne Knife Attack Treated as Terrorism; Leaders Gather To Mark 100 Years Since Armistice; Official Probe What Prompted California Massacre; Trump Taking Steps To Crack Down On Illegal Immigration; The Artist Was A Computer. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired November 09, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. We're coming to you live from CNN London on this Friday. I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, world
leaders meet in France to mark 100 years since the end of world war i, but have we really learned the lessons of the war to end all wars. And
President Trump repeated baseless claims of voter fraud in Florida and threatened to ban more journalists from the White House.
And Boris Johnson's brother Joe quits his government post in protest of Brexit and he is officially calling for a second referendum. I want to
start by looking at the themes that we cover frequently. Divisions in Europe, global powers with fierce sense of nationalism. Journalists under
attack. But there is one thing different about this next story, it was the end of the war that was supposed to end all wars. And it is a part of
history that some of the world's most powerful leaders will honor this weekend. The world with us of course a very different place 100 years ago,
but what makes us human, our dreams and fears and everything in between remains the same. And perhaps even some of the same trends. So today we
ask in a world that can often feel like it is on the brink again, can our leaders truly learn from the past? We'll have a live report coming to us
from Paris. This weekend will be extremely interesting because it will be an opportunity for the U.S. President as I mentioned, he is on his way to
Paris, and Emmanuel Macron the President of France will be hosting him and Vladimir Putin, though we understand that the two men will not meet or will
not have any official discussions. Angela Merkel as well playing into this. Today is the 80th anniversary. And let's go to Paris and Nic
Robertson with more. So, we have some diplomatic visits and opportunities for world leaders to show where they stand on big issues on a very
important anniversary, the 100th anniversary of the end of world war i. What do we expect this weekend?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we expect a very solemn commemoration event at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the
11th month on Sunday, November here. So, it will be solemn. There will be 72 heads of state, 98 heads of delegation, tight security here in Paris.
Emergency personnel on standby. And it is going to be all good that commemoration. We saw today Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuel Macron
and the Belgium prime minister go to the gravesites in northern France and Belgium today. That was very poignant as well. So, it will be a weekend
full of poignancy. But President Trump since the midterm elections, he does seem to be somewhat exorcised, and some quite strong comments before
he got on the plane to fly here. He should have landed about half an hour ago actually.
GORANI: And we will be certainly breaking down those comments that he made at that impromptu Q&A session with journalists, again finding a way to
insult a few of the journalists there asking him some very legitimate questions. Vladimir Putin, the Russian President, and Donald Trump, will
both be in Paris at the same time. Will they interact at all, do we know?
[14:05:16] ROBERTSON: There is a possibility that they will see each other and have answer a. Chance to exchange words. But what we've heard from
the White House is that there isn't a formal meeting. The Kremlin had interested that there might be. But the sense that we get from President
Putin's press spokesperson is that there is very little post-these midterm elections to be gained in a relationship with President Trump at the
moment, that the relations won't improve. Russian lawmakers think that America will become more unbalanced and the reality is that President Trump
will be mired in more domestic issues. They will chase him across the Atlantic as he flies in here. He won't be able to avoid them. So less
perhaps foreign policy and less big trips like this for President, he will be keeping them shorter perhaps over the next two years. But I think if
you stand back and take a very big look at the way that the world will view President Trump at the moment, world war I and the peace that came after it
that then failed to prevent world war ii began a huge effort of American diplomacy and American finance and economic drive to establish global
institutions that have given the world the stability it has had over the past 70 years. And there is a sense that President Trump is a disrupter to
all of that but right now world leaders know he is on the world stage. So, this is a solemn event and the world no doubt 100 years on is in perhaps a
difficult position in many circumstances and not least in part because of President Trump.
GORANI: Sure. We can certainly make some parallels. Of course, the world is a very different place, but this is something that we'll discuss later
in the program, what have we learned 100 years on. Nic Robertson, thanks very much. And what have we learned 80 years on is another question. The
end of the so-called great war left a world in a state it has never known before, world of new aggressions and anti-Semitism. And that precipitated
into Nazi violence that target Jewish properties in Germany and the current chancellor Angela Merkel says she is now worried about anti-Semitism
rearing its head again in her country. Atika Schubert is joining me now. And these are significant words from the chancellor.
ATIKA SCHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are very significant. The fact that she made it inside the Berlin synagogue, that 80 years ago was set on
fire I think is also significant. But most of all, she called attention to what she saw as a worrying trend rise in the number of anti-Semitic attacks
that happened this year in Germany. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR, GERMAN, through translator: Unfortunately, we have almost become being accustomed to the fact that Jewish establishments
have to be under police surveillance or special protection. Synagogues, schools, kindergartens, restaurant, cemeteries. An attack on a Jewish
restaurant. These are anti-Semitic crimes that call up terrible memories of the 1930s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUBERT: And I think what is important to notice there is in a November 9 is not just a day to remember here in Germany. For many it is considered a
day of fate because there are so many historical turning points that happened on this date. The berlin wall fell. But what is significant is
that chancellor Merkel used this day and this speech not only to call attention to rising anti-Semitism, but to actually make a vigorous defense
of liberal Democratic values and institutions to protect the rights of the individual. And she called out populist leaders in her speech basically
saying that they were offering, quote, simplistic answers in a brutalization of language. And most of all, she was warning that really
almost seeming to ring an alarm bell that democracy was itself under threat and she warned that the events of Kristallnacht, horrors of the holocaust
that followed happened 80 years ago because too many people followed the words of Hitler and too few stood up for the rights of their Jewish friends
and neighbors. And that she says must never happen again to any community of any faith.
[14:10:00] GORANI: So obviously those who agree with the chancellor that we're seeing a worrying rise in anti-Semitism and in hate crimes across the
board will say that it is good that she is bringing it up. And that she says must never happen again to any community of any faith. She is the
chancellor. She has been for years. What is she going to do about it?
SCHUBERT: Well, she has appointed for example, you know, a specific person, an ambassador really to deal with the issue of anti-Semitism. So,
there is somebody dedicated in the government to look at this. What she has done perhaps most of all is try and stabilize the country. And she
took a really unprecedented step in the last few weeks by saying this is going to be my last term in office. I will no longer be chancellor after
this term. And part of that is ensuring a legacy in which hate crimes must be decreased. And so, this is I think going to be a big challenge for her
especially since we have seen a rise in them ever since her policy of opening the doors to refugees. So, I think that it will be a critical part
of her legacy.
GORANI: Certainly, going to be a challenge. She has a few more years left. Thanks very much, Atika Schubert.
We mentioned that President Trump is going to Paris for those ceremonies marking the 100th anniversary since the end of World War I, and he talked
to reporters. Mr. Trump as combative as ever mentioned two extremely close races in Florida that could be headed for a recount. The battle for
governor and the U.S. senate seat. And President Trump is suggesting Democrats are trying to pull off fraud without any proof of this claim,
trying to pull off fraud he says as the final tallies come in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: If you look at Broward County, they have had a horrible history. And if you look at the person, in this case a woman,
involved, she has had a horrible history. And all of a sudden, they are finding votes out of nowhere. Did you notice the votes never go the other
way? They hire lawyers and the votes don't ever seem to go the Republican way although I hear --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have evidence will of- of- --
TRUMP: It's always the Democrats, GPS fusion, always crooked stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Of course, baseless assertions there that fraud is ongoing in Florida. There are also other things that the President said. He
responded to what was revealed in Michelle Obama's memoir. Let's get to Sarah Westwood, she is our White House reporter and she comes to us live.
So, let's start, first of all, with these comments about Florida. I mean, there is absolutely no proof of what the President is asserting, Sarah.
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right. And the vote totals remain uncertain. And there are two key counties, Broward and Palm
Beach counties. This is clearly something that he is fixated on right now. As you mentioned, he is on the plane to Paris, he has tweeted about the
Florida race six times just since he left the White House this morning. Very fixated on this unproven allegation that Democrats are somehow trying
to seal the election. He claimed falsely for instance that they never seem to find Republican votes after election night when in fact Rick Scott's
vote tally has gone up since election day. What is happening is that more votes are coming in from different parts of the state on the vote totals
are changing. And Senator Rick Scott, his margin has narrowed, but he is still ahead in this race which could be headed to a recount if the margin
remains where it is.
GORANI: Right. And he also remarkably mentioned that he would consider pulling press credentials of other reporters who are not respectful and
made a comment about Michelle Obama. He tore into Barack Obama, that he's done in the past, but he also went after Michelle Obama who in her book
that several journalists had an advance copy of said that she would never be able to forgive President Trump for promoting that birther conspiracy
theory that President Obama was not born in the United States. This is how the President, President Trump, responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:15:00] TRUMP: I guess she wrote a book, she got paid a lot of money to write a book and they always insist that you come up with controversial.
I'll give you controversy back. I'll any of forgive him for what he did to our United States military by not funding it properly. It was depleted.
Everything was old and tired. And I came in and I had to fix it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. This was his response to what was contained in Michelle Obama's memoir. Of course, that is also factually incorrect.
President Obama in his term did increase funding for the military, Sarah.
WESTWOOD: That's right. But it just shows what kind of mood the President was in this morning. And he also spent a lot of time talking about the
controversy over his choice for acting Attorney General after the departure of Jeff Sessions. He sought to put distance between himself and Matthew
Whitaker. He was a little surprised about that backlash. The President said he heard Whitaker had a good reputation, which doesn't also ring true
given that the President and Whitaker have been together on multiple occasions, they have spoken frequently on the phone and Whitaker served as
liaison between Sessions' office and the White House when he was his chief of staff. But the President perhaps responding to the controversial
decision and the fact that there has been a growing concern about what Whitaker's appointment and trying to put distance between position and
Whitaker amid that backlash.
GORANI: Sarah Westwood at the White House, thanks very much.
And by the way, there were protests actually in some cities in the United States against the firing of Jeff Sessions from people who aren't
necessarily Republican but who see that firing and the nomination of Whitaker as something that could threaten the Mueller probe into the Russia
investigation. So, it was that development as well with people in the streets generally worried about what this means for the probe. And there
are new developments into us here at CNN. The "Wall Street Journal" is reporting that President Trump in fact played a central role in hush money
payments to porn actress Stormy Daniels as well as former playmate Karen McDougal. If that is the case, if in fact he was centrally involved, that
raises questions about whether campaign finance laws were violated. "The Wall Street Journal" reporter Rebecca O'Brien who broke the story spoke to
my colleague Wolf Blitzer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REBECCA O'BRIEN, REPORTER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": I guess this is a pretty significant story. We are reporting -- our reporting found that the
President was involved in or briefed on nearly every step of the hush money agreements paid Stormy Daniels -- sorry, Stephanie Clifford and Karen
McDougal. He directed them in phone calls/meeting. And we are also reporting that federal prosecutors were aware of his efforts and had in
fact outlined them in a draft indictment that ultimately wasn't filed.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Because you're reporting, and I'm looking at the article in the "Wall Street Journal," that David Pecker of American Media,
the parent company of the "National Enquirer," that the President himself asked Mr. Pecker to go ahead and pay the $150,000 to Karen McDougal to keep
her quiet?
O'BRIEN: We're reporting that early on in August 2015, then candidate Trump met with David Pecker in his office and asked him to help his
campaign. And one of the things that David Pecker said that he would be willing to do is use his "National Enquirer" tabloid to help quash the
stories of women who were alleging sexual encounters with Mr. Trump. And then when McDougal was threatening to come forward, Donald Trump asked Mr.
Pecker to step in.
BLITZER: And Mr. Pecker is now cooperating with the special counsel, right?
O'BRIEN: Well, he was -- he had immunity and testified to federal prosecutors in Manhattan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And there you have it, the latest reporting from the "Wall Street Journal." they are reporting that in fact the President, President Trump,
played a central role in those payments to the porn star and the playboy playmate in contradiction with what he has said in the past. Still to
come, a British minister resigns over Brexit. Says essentially it is leading the country nowhere. And is calling for a second referendum. Will
it happen? And also, some families in the U.S. are praying for their lives, some deadly wildfires are moving very quickly, we'll have a live
report from California.
[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: A minister has resigned with a stinging attack on the Brexit strategy. Joe Johnson is the brother of former foreign secretary Boris
Johnson and was a junior transport minister. He says the prime minister's plan will leave Britain subordinate to the European Union and he wants a
second Brexit vote, a second referendum. He is not the only one in this country. Nina dos Santos is here. Is this significant in the sense that
could this lead to more resignations?
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could potentially especially if you take a look at the language that is used here. He has described this as
the biggest crisis since World War II, leaving British people between economic chaos and the other choice being vassalage to the EU. And that he
says is the biggest failure since the Suez Canal crisis.
GORANI: He is really going back in times.
DOS SANTOS: And also, highly unusual for Joe Johnson. Because although he is the brother of Boris Johnson, he is actually -- Joe Johnson is actually
a muted character, really, we are liked in the government and he is pro remain. Here is a snapshot of what he said on Twitter describing why he
resigned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JOHNSON, UK MP, BROTHER OF BORIS JOHNSON: We are barreling towards an incoherent Brexit that is going to leave us trapped in a subordinate
relationship to the EU with no say over the rules that will govern our economy. This is completely unacceptable and unsustainable for a democracy
such as our own. I think that it is imperative that we now go back to the people and check that they are content to proceed on this extraordinary
basis. We will be -- instead of in Europe but not run by Europe, we will be out of Europe and yet wholly subject to European rules.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOS SANTOS: And this move is being praised by his brother who tweeted his support saying what we see eye to eye on is the fact that we don't believe
Brexit in its current form is what people voted for. But what is significant is not just the fact that joe Johnson adds his name to a list
that already includes six government ministers here to have resigned over the issue, it is the fact that he is the first to really lend his weight to
that campaign for another vote on the subject.
[14:24:59] GORANI: How likely is it -- I mean now and since the referendum vote by the way, some polls have suggested that majority of Brits would
vote if the referendum were held today would vote to remain.
DOS SANTOS: That's right. There was a famous poll conducted by the pollsters for channel 4, another U.K. broadcaster, that suggested that the
swing could be as large as eight points and that 54 percent of people would vote in favor of saying inside the U.K. now if given the chance of having a
second vote. Number 10 Downing Streeters say they accept Joe Johnson's resignation, but not the request for a second vote. And they denied any
plans for a second referendum saying that the referendum in 2016 was the biggest Democratic exercise that the U.K. had had and that the people have
spoken. But if you look at other polls, they indicate about 55 percent of British people would actually like to see another vote on the subject
because of course the Brexit discourse and the deal that would have potentially crystallized on that is very far from what was in people's
minds when they went to the ballot box.
GORANI: We'll see if we get a second vote. Thank you so much.
And let's turn our attention now to a deadly stabbing spree linked to terrorism in one of Australia's biggest cities. It happened in Melbourne.
And the aftermath was caught on video. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone has driven a car that has exploded. There are police everywhere. This is insane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Police say that vehicle that the attacker used was filled with gas canisters. He got out, you can see him there running. You see the cops
with their reflector vests on. He stabbed three people, he killed one person. And police quickly arrived on the scene. And it is a female cop
by the way who shot him dead. Here is what investigators are saying about what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM ASHTON, VICTORIA POLICE CHIEF COMMISSIONER: What we know so far about the individual who we shot and has died at hospital, from what we
know, this is a terrorism incident. We now know a bit more about the identity of that person. Initially that person didn't have any
identification on them, but we believe we now have confirmation on the identity of that person and there are ongoing investigations being
conducted. And so, I'm not at liberty at this point to disclose their identity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I watched several videos online and police officers reacted remarkably quickly. The man was waving his knife at them and they had to
act quickly based on with what the video revealed. And it was also extremely lucky that that car filled with gas canisters or gas tanks,
whatever they were, only caught fire and did not explode. Presumably that would have been the goal. It is not what happened. But one person however
was killed sadly. And ISIS is claiming responsibility as they often do. They have not provided any evidence that there is a link between the group
and this attacker.
Now to the United States. Fast moving wildfires have forced more than 100,000 people to evacuate their homes. Some families left behind
everything and drove through smoke as flames licked the sides of their vehicles. Look at this, this does not even look real. It looks like
something out of a movie. Others had to abandon their cars and flee on foot. Officials say there are fatality, but have not provided details yet.
Dan Simon is joining me live from the town of Paradise, California with the latest.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are getting word with those first few fatalities. We are told that five people apparently died in a vehicle,
they were trying to out run the flames. And you worry that that death toll is going to come up given the fact that this fire just took over this town
so quickly, came in about 6:00 yesterday morning, people literally fleeing for their lives.
We are in the center of the town of Paradise, California. You can see behind me I believe this is a pawn shop and just over here, you can see
this used car lot and several cars on this lot have been charred. And then of course look across the street and you have more businesses. And we
drove a few miles up this road, the main highway that runs through Paradise, California. And it is just utter destruction everywhere. Homed
after home, apartment buildings, restaurants, really you name it, right now they are saying at least 2,000 structures have been destroyed. And if that
estimate holds up and based on my observation, I believe it will, in fact it may go even higher, if that holds, this will be the fourth most
destructive wildfire in California history.
[14:30:10] So really, we're talking about a major catastrophe in paradise. And right now, they are trying to keep the fire from spreading to another
community that is southwest of here, the town of Chico, California. Right now, firefighters believe they have a handle on the situation in terms of
it going over to Chico, but that is the concern at the moment.
GORANI: Unbelievable that used car parking lot there charred. Dan Simon, thanks for your reporting.
Still to come, side by side in a world that can sometimes feel less than united, global leaders put politics on hold for just a few hours to mark
100 years since the end of world war i. We'll be right back.
[14:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: A soldier and poet, Wilfred Owen, who was killed in action exactly one week before the end of World War I wrote, "All a poet can do today is
mourn." And as we ask if our leaders can truly learn from the past, Owen's message could also apply to journalists, historians, and teachers or
anyone, really, if we want to avoid the mistakes of the past. All anyone can do is mourn against them.
Sometimes the bigger issue is getting people to listen. So if you're at home and wondering why a news show is covering something that happened a
century ago, take a few moments to listen to CNN's Nick Glass.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK GLASS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The trains, of course, are so much faster now. Just whistle through the station that left worth some 40 miles north
of London.
The station building itself hasn't changed that much in a century or so, the big difference on that summer's day way back in August, 1914, was the
main platform was crowded with men in uniform going off to war. The way we remember the Great War has suddenly changed. The images have been tinted.
We have gone to see the war in color for the first time.
DAN HILL, HISTORIAN: This is Private Walter Flanders (ph) and Private Bill Johnson (ph). They had a tragically short war, and at least these two
chaps, they're both killed by the same shell, buried alive.
GLASS: Dan Hill is trying to identify all the men on the platform and find out what happened to them.
HILL: This is Corporal Arthur Ernest Boardman (ph), he's the very first man to fall.
GLASS: So far, Hill has identified 11 of the men in the photo, eight of them never came home. Their names are on the war memorial just 50 yards
from the railway station. Corporal Boardman, Private Flanders and Johnson, among a long list of other causalities.
Just colorizing old black and white stills obviously makes this story more accessible to a younger generation. During the same to moving footage has
been infinitely more dramatic.
PETER JACKSON, DIRECTOR OF "THEY SHALL NOT GROW OLD": It just brings it to life. I mean, I'm just someone who's had a long-time interest of this over
these last two or three years. When we've been restoring these footages. It had been incredibly exciting.
I'm stunned you see the faces, you see the people, you see the humanity.
GLASS: Peter Jackson's documentary, "They Shall Not Grow Old," give us a rare insight in what it's like to fight in the trenches on the western
front. Both electrifying, funny, and sobering, a film about comradery and animal savagery. We learn what it was like to be an ordinary soldier.
[14:35:08] This is the Welch grandfather Peter Jackson never met. Sergeant William Jackson was machine gunned at the Battle of the Somme in France in
1916. He was a lucky one. He survived.
Private Ted Ambrose (ph) didn't. He was 19 when he died. His suitcase was returned from the Somme to his mother in England. She could hardly bear to
open it. And it was quickly consigned to her attic for most of the 20th century. Ted's pipe and tobacco, his cigarettes, including Army-issued red
Hussars, a locket with pictures of himself and his sweetheart, and the service medals he never lived to receive. The artifacts amount to a rare
discovery, a poignant time capsule.
We began the centenary of the Great War in 2014 with the moat of the Tower of London filled with a sea of ceramic poppies. Some of them have now
migrated across the Thames to the Imperial War Museum, a cascade, a weeping window spilling down the building.
Britain's poet laureate, Carol Ann Duffy has written a new poem to mark the centenary of the armistice. "The Great War," she writes, "is the wound in
time. Will we ever remember it with quite so much intensity again?"
Nick Glass, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: That's a look at the past. Joining me now is author Paul Wallace who's written about learning from the mistakes of the past. And his latest
column "Lessons in Forgiveness, A Century After World War I," was published on the Reuters website. Thanks for joining us.
What have we learned 100 years after World War I? Because we're seeing some of these worrying trends whether it's anti-Semitism, nationalism,
populism. We're seeing it, for instance, the questioning of international institutions that bound countries together now somewhat falling apart at
the scenes.
PAUL WALLACE, FORMER ECONOMIST EUROPEAN ECONOMICS EDITOR: Well, I think we've learned actually the importance of today's international
institutions. Because in a way, what we're celebrating or commemorating, I should say, this Sunday is really not so much the World War I, it was then
known as the Great War. It was the war to end all wars. It was the hunt that it became World War I. That the peace that followed it was so
fragile.
So I think that it's the importance of international institutions, the failure to get American support from the League of Nations which was the
forerunner of the U.N. I think that's essential --
GORANI: But America is withdrawing from the world stage now in similar ways, isn't it?
WALLACE: That's a big worry, obviously. And, of course, America was so important after the Second World War in rebuilding Europe and indeed in
supporting European integration. Which is why the Trump presidency is a challenge to many of those institutions.
GORANI: What are we seeing now that remind us of some of the trends or some of the issues during the inter-war period?
WALLACE: Well, where to start with --
GORANI: Because what you write in your column is for instance debt forgiveness was something that was crucial to rebuilding Europe and
fostering unity. It didn't happen during the inter-war period. You also have obviously all these issues with nationalism and leaders taking
advantage of the economic disenfranchisement and insecurities. We're seeing some of that as well now.
WALLACE: Well, absolutely. But I focused in only the importance of debt forgiveness because it seemed to me that was something that perhaps is
overlooked. But, of course, this was critical because the search for German reparations and the questions of war deaths between the allies that
poisoned relations.
The reparations is -- it was incredibly important in undermining the republic and making it a fragile. And probably contributed to the big
hyperinflation of 1923, they're still weakened things. So the importance of forgiving debt, this is very in marked contrast of the Second World War.
We have marshal plan that's, a, not loans and you actually have debt forgiveness.
GORANI: And we haven't seen that for very indebted countries in Europe like Greece for instance.
WALLACE: Well, I argue that if you're concerned as Emmanuel Macron is about the future of the Euros then, then maybe a good start would be to
actually forgive some of that debt, not let it run on for years and years.
GORANI: Last question. How do we -- how do we avoid repeating some of the dangerous mistakes or are we in danger? Are we in danger of, you know,
with the U.S. retreating and the E.U. among other international organizations being weakened with Brexit. What are the dangers here?
[14:40:59] WALLACE: Well, they -- and Macron in his interview with the French newspaper, sort of alluded some of these worrying sort of
rearticulations, as you put it of previous trends. No. But I think we can learn from history in the sense that we don't have to -- we're not doomed
to repeat the same mistakes. So I think the importance of international institutions and of the E.U. in keeping Europe together is very central.
GORANI: Paul Wallace, thanks very much. And on CNN, we'll have extensive coverage of these commemorative ceremonies and President Trump will be
there. The Russian president, Vladimir Putin and other world leaders as well in Paris. Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.
A lot more to come this evening. Twelve lives taken, dozens of lives changed forever. We go to California for an update on America's latest
mass shooting. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We seek to understand this senseless act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we can take away the pain that is being felt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: To southern California now where the lives of 12 families and countless friends have been forever changed after Wednesday's mass shooting
at a local bar. We've been following the stories of the victims including 22-year-old, Cody Coffman. A friend who was with Cody during the shooting
says he died while trying to save others.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH DESON, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: We both looked towards the door because we were kind of facing towards the door and we looked and that's when the
gunshots started happening. And he said to drop down, so I fell to the ground with him.
I was behind him and I tucked myself into his back kind of -- I don't know, just laying there. In a ball. I know he was put here to protect people.
He was very -- that's why I keep calling him my hero because he was here for a reason to protect people. I knew at one point he wanted to join the
Navy or something like that. And I know that's what his calling was, to make sure people were safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's go to Nick Watt who was on the scene shortly after the massacre and joins me now from Thousand Oaks, California. Just
heartbreaking that this young man was so courageous, so brave that he died protecting his friends in that bar.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And that's just one of the stories of heroism that has come out of this terrible tragedy. Of
course there's the sheriff's deputy who also ran towards the gunfire to try and save those inside. That is a change in policy here. It used to be
that law enforcement would hold back and establish a perimeter around a mass shooting like this. Not anymore and not in this case. That deputy
and a highway patrolman were there within minutes and they went towards the gunfire and that deputy tragically also lost his life.
[14:45:16] Now, the other thing that is coming out which always comes out after these kinds of events here in the U.S. is the blame game. Why did
this happen? And of course the FBI and local officials are trying to find a motive as to what made this young man, Ian Long, carry out this tragedy.
But also, is this a mental health issue or is this a gun control issue? And those two sides are as split as ever. In fact, we just heard this
morning from the mother of one of the young men who died here at the borderline who had actually survived the Las Vegas mass shooting last year.
His name is Tel Orfanos. He was 27 years old and his mother Susan spoke to KABC which is an affiliate of CNN.
I'm just going to read you what she said. She said, "I don't want thoughts and I don't want prayers. I want gun control and I hope to God nobody else
sends me anymore prayers. I want gun control, no more guns."
But President Trump came out this morning and called the gunman a sick puppy and suggested that maybe PTSD was to blame. He said people were
saying that -- there is no evidence that PTSD leads towards this kind of violence. Hala.
GORANI: Yes. I was going to say, lots of people have PTSD. They don't shoot up bars. In any case, Nick Watt, thank you so much for that report.
Appreciate it.
Donald Trump is following through on a promise to crackdown on illegal immigration. He actually signed an order today that will require migrants
to seek asylum through legal points of entry into the United States.
Now, in simpler terms, migrants who cross the southern border, illegally, will have their asylum claims automatically rejected. Now, critics are
threatening to challenge that order as well as Mr. Trump's proposal to strip citizenship from babies born to unauthorized migrants in the United
States.
That citizenship birthright is guaranteed in the constitution. We're joined now by a woman who, by the way, just made history in the U.S.
midterm elections, Veronica Escobar, is one of the first two Latinas elected to Congress in the border state of Texas and she is live with us in
El Paso. Congratulations on your -- on your victory, Ms. Escobar. What do you hope that a democratic-controlled Congress will do? I know that
immigration issues are ones that you have very strong opinions about. What do you hope to achieve?
VERONICA ESCOBAR (D), TEXAS CONGRESSWOMAN-ELECT: Well, first of all, thank you so much for the opportunity to be on your show. What we have seen in
the last two years with a Republican in the White House and Republicans in the Senate and in Congress controlling everything, we have seen the
advancement unfortunately in our country of the politics of cruelty.
We've seen bigotry and racism fueled from the oval office. And what is important I think, and I wish this had come from the president's own party,
what's important is accountability. America is a country whose values are very clear. And they are humanitarian, compassionate values. And so my
hope is that House that is controlled by Democrats will begin to hold accountable all of those policies that are counter to American values.
GORANI: And there is some support in the United States for the idea of a wall, the idea of rejecting asylum claims from people who cross the border
illegally. In other words, not at official legal entry points in the United States. So there is a level of support for that. What is your
position on that specific aspect ever of Mr. Trump's immigration proposals? Of saying if you want to claim asylum, go to an official entry point.
ESCOBAR: Well, let me give you some context as to why what the president is doing is so terrible. At our ports of entry here in El Paso, asylum
seekers have been lined up trying to request asylum protection in our country. What they are being greeted with and greeted by at the -- at the
top of our ports of entry, the point where Mexico and the United States meet.
They're being greeted by customs border protection agents holding AK-47s, preventing them from stepping foot on American soil. So when you have the
president of the United States telling asylum seekers we're going to work against you and we're going to prevent you from requesting asylum
protection if you come in between our ports of entry and then he's blocking the ports of entry, he's sending a message that he doesn't want to follow
the law and he doesn't want asylum seekers at all.
[14:50:03] GORANI: And do you think this is something that a Democrat- controlled House of Representatives can change?
ESCOBAR: Well, I hope we can hold him accountable and make our government follow the law. You know, I will tell you it will be difficult to do in my
view, unless we have Republicans who are also willing to say, we've had enough of a government run amok that is treating people in the most
inhumane way, creating a humanitarian crisis on the U.S.-Mexico border. We do need Republicans to stand with us for what is right.
GORANI: A quick last one. We're seen all over the world. So this is CNN International. What would you say to people who ask me all the time -- I
mean, I'm a U.S. citizen, they say, what is the appeal of Donald Trump? Almost, I think 46, 47 percent of Americans in the latest polling support
the president across both parties. And they ask me, what is it that still gets a sizable portion of the country behind him? What is your response to
that?
ESCOBAR: I think, unfortunately, it's what we're seeing across the globe, this sort of xenophobia and this fear of the change that comes with
migration, the change that comes with globalization. And there is a component of that that we all need to understand. Change is scary, change
is difficult but we cannot lose our values.
And what is heartbreaking to me is that there are so many of his supporters who I think and who I fear have lost touch with some of those important
humanitarian values. But it's going to be our job and we need to work hard at uniting this country and again, it will take help from Republicans as
well.
GORANI: Veronica Escobar, one of two -- the first of two Latinos elected to Congress in the state of Texas, joining us live from El Paso. Thanks so
much for being with us. Appreciate it. We will be right back on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Robots are now doing many types of jobs around the world, but there's one area that will always need a human touch. Fine art. Or will
it? A portrait created by a computer as recently been sold in New York for almost half a million dollars. Many times the pre-sale estimate. But is
it any good? Why don't you decide?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GAUTHIER VERNIER, ARTIST: Artificial intelligence is about replicating human intelligence, the part that we're focused on is related to
inventiveness and creativity.
This is a collective of three friends. We sold algorithms. We're capable of creating new images. And we were astonished by the potential they had.
We're looking at this portrait the same way a painter would do it like working in a gallery, taking some inspiration, except that we feed this
inspiration to the algorithm and the algorithm is the part that does the visual creation.
The world is called Edmond Belamy and it's created with artificial intelligence.
[14:55:00] You have -- in our example, 15,000 pictures. You feed them to the algorithm and the algorithm learns how to create new examples of these
images. It analyzes the pictures pixel by pixels so it can recognize shapes and colors and create space on those features.
All the data have similarities so common features. So first algorithm creates new examples of those images and tries to force second algorithm
into thinking that those pictures created are actually real surface or human-made.
I think that it has its place in the art world because it tries to replicate what any artist would do like trying to create from what he
knows. It forces you to try to understand your own creativity and how you would be able to replicate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Thanks for watching tonight. If it's your weekend, have a great weekend. I'm Hala Gorani, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
