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Hala Gorani Tonight
Khashoggi's WhatsApp Texts Offer Clues to His Murder, Two French Protest Leaders Pull Out of Meeting with Macron; Markets Move Higher Over U.S.-China Trade Truce. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 03, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, more violent protests in France. Anger at the
government over fuel prices is reaching boiling point. All eyes are on President Emmanuel Macron to see what he does next. We are live in Paris.
Also, a new CNN exclusive that may reveal more about why "The Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi was killed. We have obtained WhatsApp
messages with a fellow dissident in the months before his death.
And America begins to say farewell to late U.S. President George H.W. Bush. His casket is on its way to the nation's capitol. As we speak, we
will be live in Washington.
We begin tonight in Paris. It is a city normally evokes the feeling of romance, love and beauty. It is known as the city of lights but for a few
days the only light that could be scene on the streets came from scenes like this. These are some really, really colorful and in some cases
violent protests. There was fire. You could see some cars got torched. Tens of thousands of people on the streets taking part in protests that
morphed of rising gas taxes into a broader demonstration against President Macron. Take a look at the Arc of Triumph. Graffiti sprayed on it. Some
of the actual relief sculptures damaged, as well. Today Macron was trying to get ahead of the situation. The talks are expected to happen tomorrow
and the protests haven't stopped. Ambulance drivers joined in, some of them setting fires and smoke bombs. Let's take you live to the French
capital. Melissa Bell joins me now live. How much of a threat is this to the President, to the government? I understand some of these yellow vest
leaders due to meet with the prime minister have pulled out?
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. A couple of the most high-profile spokesman and a you say this is such a disparate
movement there are so many different sort of factions within it because it's a leaderless popular revolt if you like. Sort of insurrection on the
part of the people and that's how they see themselves and a couple of the most prominent have confirmed to CNN they won't be attending the meeting
with the prime minister tomorrow, Hala. It is difficult to know where that leaves things. Already, though, the yellow vests calling for another
protest and #eighthofDecember has already been created. They are hoping to get similar numbers out onto the streets. French authorities are doing
everything they can, first of all, Hala, trying to diffuse this politically and perhaps more importantly simply to work out how they can keep Paris
safer than they did last Saturday.
GORANI: Yes. Why are they so violent? I mean, are these protesters? Are these just the -- you know, some of these anarchist types intent on
violence and destruction? Why are we seeing the Arch of Triumph, a precious monument in Paris defaced like that?
BELL: That's a good question. The government's narrative and what we have seen on the streets until this last Saturday a broad movement of yellow
vests out on the street protesting against as you say the broader issue of the cost of living and the policies of Macron. What we saw on Saturday is
not just those with a council of the troublemakers, the anarchists if you like. This felt much more violent, much more angry because the yellow --
so many of the yellow vests themselves were in such anger. There was in sort of almost insurrection fervor. And that, Hala, interestingly born out
when you look at the police figured. More than 400 people taken in for questioning. That's a record. Some of those, the kind of troublemakers
that the French government expected, others simply people who come from outside Paris to take part in a protest but who express their anger in ways
that surprised even them.
[14:05:00] GORANI: Melissa, thank you very much. Just as importantly, how the French government, how the French President will react to all of this.
By the way, as you can imagine, the protests have the country talking. It is reflected in the newspapers there. This is the front page of the left-
leaning daily paper, "Liberation". Submerge which means submerged. With an outline of the face of the French President Macron.
This was a "'L'Express" which is a magazine. Let's put that one up. And France contre France, so it's France against France meaning two sides in
the country against each other. And let's take a look at the next one. And this is "Aujourd'hui" which is a newspaper. We need answers there.
Mr. President, we need answers. With a picture of the French President.
So, let's -- that's one of the pictures there making the front pages so let's take a look at the bigger picture and what it will mean for the
French President. Regis Le Sommier, the deputy editor in chief of "Paris Match" and he joins me live from Paris. I was asking Melissa earlier,
French Presidents have tried and failed in the past to get reforms through, to get labor market reforms. Is it going to -- is this severe enough that
it could threaten the French President politically?
REGIS LE SOMMIER, DEPUTY EDITOR IN CHIEF, "PARIS MATCH": Well, yes. There is the potential with what's going on right now that Macron will find
himself in turmoil. He's already in turmoil. He, you know -- we have felt over the weekend is a sense of hesitation. The government has not been
present enough. Macron has not really talked, really addressed what was going on. Some of his ministers went forward. They tried on the radio
station. You know? On various radio and tv to tell, to spread the message but it is not perceived in the street. We briefly talked about Paris but
look at the rest of the country. I was in Normandy this weekend and you can see the people are -- they're holding roundabouts. Now you know the
toll stop for the cars, you don't pay anymore. They let you pass for free. They're holding the countryside, too. Those people, they have nothing to
lose. They're going to keep on doing and you're right. You know? You are right to say that December 8th might be another act of this protest which
is ongoing and has no end in sight.
GORANI: So, you know the image of France and the reputation of France abroad is that French people just protest all the time about anything that
they find mildly inconvenient. In this case, what is at the root cause of these protest movements? Because there's so much passion behind it and in
some cases violence. What is it that these protesters and not just Paris as you mentioned, it is all across the country. What are they so angry
about?
LE SOMMIER: Well, they're angry at a perception that they have, that the measures have been taken by Macron in 18 month he is elected are measures
that are only going on the side, only benefiting to the wealthiest and that the poorest like the retired people are being oppressive. Fiscally. You
got to remember that every time there was a revolution in France, the revolution had fiscal roots, whether it is the revolution of 1789 or
revolution of 1848. All of these revolution find themselves --
GORANI: This is a revolution? That you're putting that in the same category?
LE SOMMIER: No.
GORANI: Of 1789 or May '68 even?
LE SOMMIER: It is -- no. But my comprehension of history gets serious in France when you have that type of environment. And, you know, whether it's
politically, you know, you have unrest every now and then in France. They like to demonstrate, protest. There is something really different. Is the
feeling on the part of many, many people you talk about and especially, especially in rural France is that these people have nothing. These people
have nothing left. You know? France has a huge debt. America has one, too. But France debt is right now 2,000 billion euros.
[14:10:00] OK, the government needs to tackle this debt. They need to find money
And so far Macron -- the feeling Macron has spread among the people is that he's going to pressure the little ones and not the wealthiest, not what
he's perceived as his friends and that's where the problem lies these days and that was so many people asking for a resignation pharma congresswoman,
the feeling Macron has spread among the people is that he's going to pressure the little ones and not the wealthiest, not what he's perceived as
his friends and that's where the problem lies these days and that was so many people asking for a resignation of the President.
GORANI: Yes. We'll see how he reacts because, obviously, this meeting with the prime minister will be important. Although we understand that
some of the leaders have pulled out. Certainly, I think there's the realization this is some serious stuff and that he needs to address these
issues. As always, the deputy editor in chief, it is always a pleasure speaking to you.
Now it's two months since Jamal Khashoggi talked into Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul never to reemerge alive. The journalist was an
outspoken critic of Saudi rulers and now learning more about the extent of his opposition. CNN's Nina Dos Santos has obtained ten months of WhatsApp
messages he sent to a fellow Saudi dissident in exile. According to her exclusive report, the messages could provide important clues about the
motive behind the murder.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR: These are words you won't have read in Jamal Khashoggi's columns. Instead, they're messages never seen before
sent by Khashoggi in the year before his death. They laid bare his disdain for Saudi Arabia's crown prince saying, quote, "He is like a beast, like
Pac-man. The more victims he eats the more he wants. May god rid us and this nation of this predicament." The words exchanged with Omar Abdulaziz,
a fellow critic in exile in Canada.
GORANI: He believed that MBS is the issue, is the problem, and someone has to tell him that, you know, you have to be stopped.
DOS SANTOS: Talk like this is dangerous for those in a country with one of the worst records of human rights. They planned to hold the Saudi state to
account creating an army of cyber bees on social media leveraging Khashoggi's name and the 340,000 strong Twitter following of his confidant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR ABDULAZIZ, EXILED SAUDI ACTIVIST: In the beginning, it was a bit difficult for us to have this kind of relationship. For me, I was a
dissident and he was a guy that worked for the government for almost 35 years.
DOS SANTOS: Khashoggi pledged funds and Abdulaziz bought the hardware, hundreds of sim cards to send home enabling dissidents to avoid detection.
In one message, Abdulaziz writes. "I sent you a brief idea about the work of the electronic army. "Brilliant report", Khashoggi replies. "I'll try
to sort out the money. We have to do something."
DOS SANTOS: How much money did he originally say he would commit to the project?
ABDULAZIZ: He said 30,000.
GORANI: $30,000?
ABDULAZIZ Yes.
GORANI: How dangerous is a project like that in Saudi Arabia?
ABDULAZIZ: You might be killed because of that. You might be jailed. They might send someone to assassinate you.
DOS SANTOS: Just like Khashoggi, Omar Abdulaziz, believes that he was also targeted after two Saudi emissaries were dispatched to Canada he says last
May to coax him into the embassy there. He made these secret recordings of their
meetings and shared them with CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have come to you with a message from Mohammad bin Salman, " I want you to be reassured. We don't have to approach someone
from an official department or the state security. The Saudi Arabian embassy awaits you.
DOS SANTOS: When Abdulaziz refused, they got to him another way. Hacking his phone, according to a lawsuit he filed this week against the Israeli
firm behind the spyware. When the pair's plans were discovered, Khashoggi panicked. "God help us," he wrote. How much of a target did that make
both of you?
ABDULAZIZ: The hacking of my phone played a major role on what happened to Jamal. I'm really sorry to say that. We were trying to teach people about
human rights, about a freedom of speech. That's it. This is the only crime that we have committed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Nina joins me live. Nina, Saudi Arabia has not responded I understand to CNN's request for comment?
[14:15:00] DOS SANTOS: That is right. The deadline expired yesterday evening and no, we haven't heard any word from Saudi officials and I should
point out when it comes to the Israeli firm at the center of the allegations the lawsuit we showed you in the piece that was filed today in
Israel, they have responded to us and to the lawsuit saying quote, "this suit is completely unfounded, it shows no evidence of the company's
technology was used in the case of intercepting this dissident and the affects that -- the events that led to Khashoggi's death. Product supplied
by NSO are operated by the government customer without the involvement of NSO
employees. They go on to say they take such matters seriously. If they see that the software is being used for nefarious activity, they
investigate and maybe suspend the license.
GORANI: You said there's no reaction to this report from Saudi Arabia but we did see Mohammad bin Salman in Argentina. Videos of him high fiving
Vladimir Putin and also an interesting discussion that we were able to transcribe with the French President. I think we have a bit of that video
first of all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: No, listen of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was a very short bit.
DOS SANTOS: At least it was subtitled. What we believe was going on there and bear in mind this is just after that big bro hand shake with Vladimir
Putin that Mohammad bin Salman enjoyed is the French President Macron was appearing to admonish him, give him counsel to say I'm worried about this
situation, referring to obviously the death of Jamal Khashoggi and the reports of involvement at the highest allegations of involvement at the
highest level of Saudi government. And he says, quote/unquote you never listen to me. Bin Salman realizes at this point that the cameras are
intercepting the conversation and says no, no. I do listen to you. A backdrop to this is with the White House failing obviously to decide to
call out what the CIA has deemed as potential responsibility at the highest levels of the Saudi royal family that left a sort of moral vacuum if you
like that Macron is very, very keen to fill here as the elder statesman.
GORANI: I don't know if he's effective at it, though. There's a lot of things Macron wants to do in his ideal world view. Fill the U.S. vacuum.
Reform France. Shore up --
DOS SANTOS: After Brexit, for instance?
GORANI: Attract banking business from London after Brexit which if you see these images of torched cars might not be the best advertisement for that
thinking of choosing between Paris and Frankfurt.
DOS SANTOS: We all know that reforms domestically in France are really hard to put into place without significant resistance which is why you also
see French Presidents pivot towards their foreign policy, as well, because that faces far less resistance especially in a situation like this, with
the strange relations Saudi Arabia's facing versus many of the people on the G20 stage over the weekend in Argentina.
GORANI: There was a lot coming out of the summit that was interesting. Thank you very much, Nina, for that exclusive reporting.
The U.S. and China called truce in their trade war. And the markets are loving it. I'll speak to Richard Quest about the deal and right now the
U.S. is preparing to say good-bye to the 41st President. George H.W. Bush's casket will soon arrive in Washington for a memorial service. We'll
be right back.
[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. Markets around the world seem to be celebrating the temporary truce between the U.S. and China over the trade war. Over the
weekend, the American President Donald Trump agreed to hold off on any addition altar I haves and China said it's willing to buy a, quote, very
substantial amount of agriculture, energy and other American products. But this is important. It's a hand shake. It happened at a world summit.
Neither side gave specific details about the agreement. The markets celebration could be short lived. The world's two largest economies have
90 days to iron out trade issues that have lingered for decades. And by the way, Larry Kudlow, the economic adviser, said no specific agreement has
been put in place. So, this is still talk over a table at did G20. It's an important distinction. Let's bring in Jamie Metzl. What is your
reaction to this series of tweets from the President about having come to this agreement with China?
JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW OF THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Well, there's no real agreement. What this is a pause and so certainly both the United States
and China could potential suffer from a trade war and it is not a terrible thing to say we'll have three months to iron out any differences. I don't
think that this is going to fundamentally change the overall situation but at least it creates some kind of opportunity.
GORANI: And what do you -- then what would China's strategy be here? Because, of course, we hear from Larry Kudlow after the President makes the
statements on the Twitter page walking back some of what the U.S. President has announced.
METZL: Yes. For China it's a good deal because they were going to have a bump-up in tariffs on January 1st. Now that gets pushed back by two
months. A lot can happen in three months. Who knows what President Trump's position will be at that time? Based on what's happening with the
Mueller probe and other things and China certainly I don't think have much of an incentive to make the massive structural changes that the United
States wants but they know that they can pay off President Trump with buying some additional agricultural products, perhaps liquefied natural gas
addressing the issues of the deficit isn't that painful for China but the structural changes, that's really what the game is and what this is
ultimately about and should be about, both for China and the United States, is who assumes the commanding heights of the economy of the 21st century.
If China can appease the United States by buying agriculture and energy, while seizing the high ground of future technology that's a big win for
China.
GORANI: Sure. Richard Quest can join us now. Does Donald Trump have a point? He is criticized for portraying the U.S. as the constant victim in
international agreements and international pacts and in the case of the trade relationship with China does the U.S. President have a point?
RICHARD QUEST, BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: He has a point only insofar as U.S. companies, particularly Silicon Valley, and those in the digital
economy, will have suffered most. The Microsofts, the Apples. Those companies that are at the forefront will have seen -- and indeed,
Hollywood, as well, in terms of the amount of theirs that will have been pirated, copied. It is U.S. companies particularly hit with having to do
joint ventures and then watching all their intellectual property having been pirated and stolen. So yes, there's a strong point on that but I
think Jamie hits the nail on the head, whatever that phrase is, when he says, look, the really hard part is structural change. This is what --
any, anybody, Hala, can do a deal or a mini deal that changes tariffs on autos and does a bit of that and does a bit of that and actually doesn't
altar the underlying trading structure. And my concern is that whether or not in 90 days the Chinese are willing to give ground on that.
[14:25:00] GORANI: Yes. And, Jamie, the impact on the U.S. economy here, what would it be? If, indeed, the two countries are able to come up with a
trade agreement that would be mutually beneficial.
METZL: Yes. It depends on what the trade agreement is and does. If it's just China buying more agricultural products and energy from the United
States Chinese needs to do those things any way. We're getting the bump up because before the tariffs were imposed, Chinese companies and others
stockpiled American agriculture and other goods and then there was a pause and now they're refilling their coffers but if there were to be some kind
of major structural change where China had -- the U.S. had reciprocal access to China's market, ended the terrible theft and coercion of U.S.
companies and the intellectual property that would be great but China has no intention of doing that. Frankly, no incentive for doing that. The
U.S. gave up the leverage when the Trump administration withdrew from the transpacific partnership.
GORANI: President Trump is obsessed with trade balance and in some ways above and beyond the idea that China's lower cost goods fuel, at least, a
portion of the U.S. economy because it's so dependent on consumer spending. Is that shortsighted?
QUEST: Oh, completely. Bob Woodward's book "Fear" makes this absolutely clear. The number of arguments that senior administration officials had
with the President pointing out, Gary Cohen, for example, pointing out the zero-sum gain approach the President takes, I must sell to you more than
you sell to me does not take account of the sophisticated nature of the U.S. economy. It's services led. It's high-tech services. It is
extremely advanced value-added goods and reflected in the services. You can't just do it on the balance of trade. You have to look at the whole
account.
GORANI: Yes. So, Jamie, is China happy that they're negotiating partner - - their negotiating partner is Donald Trump and not another President, do you think?
METZL: Donald Trump is the greatest gift that the Chinese have received in decades. He's weakened America's alliances. He's weakened America's
economy and most importantly he and his administration have taken their eye off the ball of what is at stake and what is at stake is who will lead, the
United States or China, is going to lead the world economy and through it the world system in the 21st century and China's making huge progress. The
United States has a massive lead is Donald Trump is frittering away and dangerous. Great for China. It's terrible for the United States.
QUEST: Hala, could I just add on to that?
GORANI: Sure.
QUEST: Because the President is looking upon the economy of the United States as if it were a business. Where the profits and loss account at the
bottom line. He's not looking at the whole balance sheet and Jamie as he points out the loss of alliances and the irritation of that has to be
included on that balance sheet. Not just whether your balance of trade up or down in any given moment.
GORANI: All right. Richard, see you at the top of the hour on "Quest Means Business." Jamie, thank you so much for joining us. By the way, we
mentioned stocks and reacted positively to the President's tweets. And after Larry Kudlow sort of clarified things, they came off their session
highs. You can see it on the graphic there. Up a little. This is the Dow Jones. A little under 1 percent.
Still to come tonight, the Bush family is escorting their father and grandfather to Washington right now. The late George H.W. Bush will
receive state honors at the capitol today. We will have the details on public services for the former President next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:08] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Right now, the casket carrying former U.S. President George H.W. Bush is on its way to
Washington. This week will be filled with memorial services for the late president who died Friday aged 94.
The Bush family gathered in Houston, Texas, earlier to escort their patriarch on the final flights. Bush will be honored by Congress in the
coming hours before his body lies in state at the U.S. Capitol until Wednesday.
Our White House reporter Sarah Westwood joins me now from Washington. And the president of the United States, Donald Trump, has tweeted he will be
paying his respects, he will be attending that memorial services which some people found surprising because he was in an open feud with a few members
of the Bush family and even mocked George H.W. Bush's foreign policy pronouncements when he was president.
So, what happened there? Why is the president attending the memorial service?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, that's right, Hala. The relationship between President Trump and the Bush family has been fraught
since Trump entered politics. He ran on an anti-Bush platform but the Bush family has tried to create this as a unifying moment, bringing the
president, inviting the president to the funeral as tradition would dictate.
President Trump won't be speaking at the funeral. George W. Bush, another former president will be eulogizing his father along with some others, but
President Trump will be in attendance, will be observing some other more formal traditions such as paying condolence call to the Bush family at the
Blair House near the White House later today. We're told by a White House official that he will be visiting the remains of the 41st president as they
lie in state at the U.S. Capitol. They'll be lying in state until Wednesday.
So the president will be continuing to observe some of those traditions surrounding the passing of George H. W. Bush even though that relationship
is fraught and trying to really create a unifying moment for the country.
GORANI: Sarah Westwood at the White House, thanks very much.
George H.W. Bush, the patriarch of the Bush political dynasty, leaves behind a complex legacy both domestically and internationally. Let's get
more on this with presidential historian, Michael Purdy, who joins me via Skype. Thanks for being with us.
So what's -- what would you say and I know it's very difficult to boil it down to one or two things. But what is the lasting legacy of George H.W.
Bush? He only served one term until '92. But what do you think is the top headline in terms of his legacy?
MICHAEL PURDY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I think the top headline is his basic sense of decency. Certainly, he was a partisan politician. But he
was a decent person. He valued relationships and credibly, he lived in a world where civility reign. He was a compromiser. A consensus builder. A
collaborator. You just look at what he did in terms of personally pulling together personally the Gulf War coalition.
But he was not a natural politician in many ways. He was awkward. He was more of a technocrat and a manager than a politician. He once said that he
had trouble with what he called the vision thing.
But I think it's his basic sense of decency and that's very much contrasted today, of course, with what we see in political life in the United States.
GORANI: Because oftentimes, we measure really the impact and the legacy of a president who passes away against the president currently serving. Not
specifically Donald Trump. In this case, it's Donald Trump but if he'd passed away when, for instance, Barack Obama was president, we would have
done the same.
But domestically, if there is something that the president, former President George H.W. Bush did that had a lasting impact, what would that
be politically speaking?
[14:35:02] PURDY: So I think politically speaking his lasting impact domestically is probably former president Bush did that had a lasting
impact, what would that be politically speaking?
PURDY: So I think politically speaking, his lasting impact domestically is probably not really good. He, of course, lost re-election because of the
recession in the United States. And he was seen as aloof and not very sensitive to the needs of people.
So we can go back and look at the 1992 debate in which the candidates were asked how has the recession personally impacted you? And Bush, the sitting
president, gave a really very weak answer and he started to talk about interest rates and he was kind of pulled back and said, no, how is it
impacted you personally. And he started to get very defensive and that's really contrasted with what Bill Clinton did right after that, where he
goes up and he talks to the questioner and says, so tell me how it's impacted you.
And so this is, again, part of where Bush was not a natural politician.
GORANI: And he conceded that that was one of his weaknesses, as well. And also, accepted that that was probably the reason he lost re-election.
In terms of foreign policy, of course, we have covered -- we at CNN cover Iraq and the Middle East a lot. There was a first Gulf War. Kuwait, in
fact, honored George H.W. Bush as their liberator. They wrote a message on towers in Kuwait City lighting up these towers in his honor with a picture
of George H.W. Bush.
In Iraq, I'm not sure that people would all be so ready to celebrate him because he did encourage Kurds and Shiites to rise up against Saddam
Hussein and that's something that a lot of people felt he then abandoned them after he'd encouraged them to rise up after the Gulf War ended. So,
he does leave a mixed legacy there in the Middle East.
PURDY: He certainly does. Although probably very few presidents besides George H.W. Bush came to the presidency with as much foreign policy
experience as he did. And so though he may have made mistakes and all presidents do, he had a good handle on foreign policy. Again, because I
think it was built on relationships that he established with foreign leaders and he established those relationships wherever he went and he
really genuinely cared about people.
I think he wasn't very good in the public spotlight. He was better behind the scenes and working deals. He was really the ultimate dealmaker you
might say.
GORANI: But interestingly in the Middle East, as well, and this is something that I was reading up on his accomplishments or his track record
in the Middle East, I found interesting. He had tied with Israel billions of dollars in economic and military aid to a freeze and settlement activity
which is not something that after his presidency you saw a lot from U.S. presidents.
PURDY: Right. I mean, Bush's record, again, is going to be much stronger in the foreign policy area but he certainly had areas where he was not
strong. You know? Part of it again is his -- the fact that he was not as adept in public. He was not a charismatic president like, say, Ronald
Reagan or Bill Clinton or even John F. Kennedy who he actually met at one point in 1962.
So it's surprising in some ways that George H.W. Bush rose to the presidency. He was at the right time, the right place.
GORANI: And I was going to say, sorry to jump in, but in this age of Twitter and social media, it's -- I mean, who knows? But I mean it's very
difficult to imagine a man with his personality winning any kind of election in these days, I mean.
PURDY: Absolutely. And I think he would have been a very uncomfortable Twitter president because, again, his focus was on one on one personal
relationships. He was not a grand stander.
And he domestically, we could go back and look at his mistakes where he tried to be tough and he said, you know, no new taxes. Read my lips and so
he's trying to be tough. But he didn't do a good job at it and, of course, he had to go back and eat those words later on.
GORANI: All right. Thank you very much, Michael Purdy, for joining us. With more on the legacy of George H.W. Bush. Appreciate it.
David Attenborough has spent more than 60 years helping us understand nature to his celebrated documentaries. Now, he's trying to get world
leaders to understand how dangerous climate change is to our survival.
[14:40:03] The 92-year-old was in great shape, by the way, is representing the public, all of us at this year's U.N. climate change summit in Poland.
And he's used his opening day speech to issue a stark warning. Humanity is facing its greatest threat in thousands of years.
Earlier, David Attenborough spoke to our Christiane Amanpour about why he is still very much determined to speak out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID ATTENBOROUGH, "PEOPLE'S SEAT" REPRESENTATIVE COP24: What you realize now is that if you don't speak up, nobody will. I've had unprecedented
good fortune in being able to travel around the world and seeing all the most wonderful things. And what sort of a person would I be if I failed to
speak up on this occasion when we suddenly seeing what is facing us just over the horizon?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Will the tough talk translate into action? It's been three years since the landmark Paris Agreement on climate change, but its
implementation has not exactly gone to plan.
Nick Paton Walsh takes a look at what has happened since.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: December 2015. The Paris Climate Agreement gave those sounding alarm bells about the future, a renewed hope
for the planet. Nearly 200 countries pledging to do their part to limit global warming, to less than two degrees Celsius above pre-industrial
levels with hopes of capping that number at 1.5.
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH U.S. PRESIDENT: This agreement represents the best chance we've had to save the one planet that we've got.
WALSH: The call to action say most experts not a moment too soon. Hurricanes and typhoons are growing in strength and frequency. Leaving
parts of intense devastation in their wake. Wildfires, too. Blazing hotter and scorching the earth more often with more severity.
And then there's the glaciers. The colossal structures NASA warns are melting at an alarming rate causing sea levels to rise. One of the most
visual results of the dramatic effect of warming temperatures.
Leading to loss of habitat, not only animals and sea life, but creating a very real threat to life and livelihood for the nearly 40 percent of the
world's population that lives within 100 kilometers of the ocean.
The Paris Agreement it seemed the best chance to stave off this march toward planetary disaster. But the euphoria over the world's commitments
to fighting the looming climate threats quickly began to fade as implementation struggled to find its footing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President.
WALSH: With the new U.S. President in 2017 came a change in belief. And course of action for the nation second only to China at the top of the list
in total carbon emissions.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As of today, the United States will cease all implementation of the non-binding Paris Accord.
WALSH: A climate report just released by Donald Trump's own administration outlined $400 billion in costs to the U.S. since 2015 from natural
disasters strengthened by climate change, a number that is expected to increase as the world grows warmer. Trump's response --
TRUMP: I don't believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't believe it?
TRUMP: No, no. I don't believe it.
WALSH: The tectonic shift in position by the U.S. government not the only worrisome trend. Brazil has rescinded its offer to host a U.N. climate
conference next year where the incoming foreign minister calling climate change quote a, "Marxist Hoax."
But the world meteorological organization says otherwise warning the planet's long-term warming trend is far from abated.
PETTERI TAALAS, SECRETARY-GENERAL, WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORG.: 2016 was the warmest year on record and 2017 was the second warmest on record and this
is total of 15 was number three and this year is number four.
WALSH: The situation is so dire scientists say if a real change is not made imminently, the planet is on track to warm three to four degrees
centigrade by the end of the century. Likely causing widespread food and water shortages, economic catastrophe and large-scale loss of life.
The current data is far from encouraging. Paris Agreement largely symbolic in nature had no tangible consequences for nations that failed to meet
their targets and many are indeed falling short.
2017 set a record for carbon emissions, a record expected to be broke again in 2018 as new coal power plants fire up across Asia and Africa, joining
the other fossil fuel plants still active around the globe.
And in a bit of ironic fate, Poland this year's host nation for climate talks gets 80 percent of its power from coal. Something that they, along
with the other industrial nations, will have to change and change soon to give the planet a fighting chance for survival.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:45:07] GORANI: A lot more to come this evening. So far so good. China and the United States reach a truce in their trade war. But will it
last and is it really significant?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Global financial markets seem relieved for now about the trade truce between the world's two largest economies. As the G20 meeting
wrapped up, U.S. President Trump agreed not to raise the 10 percent tariffs on billions of dollars' worth of Chinese goods in January as planned.
And China said it would be willing to purchase some agriculture and energy products from America. But it's just a reprieve, not a long-term solution.
China and the United States now have 90 days to sort out issues they've battled for decades.
Joining me now from New York, Ian Bremer, president of the Eurasia group. So, is this one of those Donald Trump manufactured crisis that he can claim
he was able to solved or is this a real accomplishment?
IAN BREMMER, AMERICAN POLITICAL SCIENTIST: I guess I'd say it's not quite either yet in the sense that U.S./China relations and trade challenges have
been growing for a long time. Certainly under Obama. Certainly under Bush. And no one's really wanted to address them.
So the fact that President Trump has hit the Chinese harder and directly actually imposed tariffs has been a significant hit and the Chinese are
worried because their economy is slowing a little bit and they don't want those tariffs to expand. So they definitely put something on the table.
On the other hand, one of the easiest ways to get the Chinese to pay attention would be to align with all of American allies and there was an
opportunity to do that with the Transpacific Partnership. Of course, that was the first thing that Trump did and became president in foreign policy
is he unilaterally withdrew from it and instead, started beating on American allies like Canada, the Europeans and the Japanese on trade.
Finally, he stepped away from that. And this G20 Summit, this weekend, was the first time that we've really seen America and its allies speaking from
the same page in terms of mutual concerns about China.
GORANI: All right. So what happens next then? Because they have 90 days and we know the president can act erratically and make some major
announcements on Twitter that no one, sometimes not even his close team was expecting.
In fact, the economic adviser to the president, Larry Kudlow, saying, "Hang on, hang on. We're not talking about an agreement here. Let's not get
ahead of ourselves." So sort of slightly dialing back what the president himself announced on social media.
BREMMER: Well, the Americans haven't given anything up. I mean, it's not as if the United States took away tariffs that we've already placed on the
Chinese so those existing 10 percent, that's there. The technology restrictions, that's there.
[14:50:03] I mean, there's definitely -- I mean, to the extent that anyone's blinking here, so far, it's the Chinese, both in terms of the
commitments to crack down on fentanyl production, as well as the undisclosed but nonetheless, apparently, significant willingness of the
Chinese to deal with the trade deficits and buy a lot more American goods.
Look, the devils in the details, and as you suggest that we right now, according to Trump, have 90 days. That of course can be extended. That's
a self-imposed deadline. We've seen that in the past with tariffs.
I think what's interesting will be, does Trump who now has said at the close of the G20, this is a great deal? We're going to work with the
Chinese. Does he get invested? Does it become harder for him to back away from the Chinese because it's now something that shows it's a win?
For me, it feels a little bit like North Korea. They came out of Singapore with a lot of goodwill and not an awful lot of substance. Some substance.
The North Koreans aren't testing their weapons anymore, their nukes and their ballistic missiles. But they didn't give much to the U.S. But now,
Kim Jong-un' is our friend. We're going to have another summit.
It's quite possible that it's going to be difficult for the hardliners in the Trump administration to talk Trump away if the Chinese are doing a
little but not very much.
GORANI: Yes. And other interesting developments that I want to get your take on. Emmanuel Macron is having one hell of a week. I mean, first, we
saw him speak with MBS, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, telling him he never listen to me. Presumably talking about the Khashoggi murder. But
he's canceled, we understand a trip to Serbia just in the last few minutes, because he's having massive problems at home. Ian, these yellow vest
protests. And he's -- incredibly unpopular.
I wonder. I mean, in this post-Brexit world where France is trying to reform and get some of that banking business from London, where does that
leave the country?
BREMMER: Well, to the extent that Europe has leadership today, it is Emmanuel Macron and that, I guess, tells you about as much about how
challenging Europe's situation is as you can imagine, right? He's a 25 percent, 26 percent approval. He'd love to have Trump's approval ratings
in the 40's right now. And that's what their economy doing OK.
But, you know, look, we have to understand that when Macron won, it's only because he painted himself as this new anti-establishment guy. But many of
his actual policies are aligned with the establishment. And he doesn't listen. He's incredibly smart. He's very charismatic but he surrounded
himself with a small group of yes-men.
And the really powerful people that were part of his cabinet, many of them have quit or resigned, because they're not interested in being around him
anymore.
Frankly, it feels a little bit like the Obama administration did at the beginning. Massive promise. Everyone coming together but the country
itself actually becoming more divided over the course of a couple of terms.
GORANI: But is it transpacific, though? I mean, is this a country that is not yet ready to reform or is this a president who's coming up with the
wrong reforms at the wrong time?
BREMMER: It's France specific in the sense that France actually spends more on their public sector percentage wise of their economy than any other
advanced industrial economy in the world. So it's truly unsustainable. And they have a larger percentage of immigrants in their country that
aren't integrating in their country, much more than Germany or the U.K. or certainly the United States.
So definitely these tensions that are pulling the country apart, ripping apart the social fabric, are even more intense in France than they are in
other places. But macron is not the leader that's going to bring them together. And I think that is also a big part of the issue.
Let's remember that when Macron won, it easily could have been him not making it into the second round. It could have been the communists and the
national front making the second round and people forget. Like we could have had Bernie Sanders running the United States too and that would have
been a very different kind of conversation if he had gotten the nomination on the democratic side. You have to look at what could have happened.
GORANI: Sure. Well, that's the nature of the French system. Whoever wins usually doesn't get more than 30 percent of the vote in the first round.
Well, we'll keep our eye on that. Thanks so much, Ian Bremmer. Always a pleasure. Thanks for joining us.
BREMMER: Thank you, Hala.
GORANI: Appreciate it. We'll be right back. Quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:13] GORANI: And this final note about the passing of President George H.W. Bush, the late president's spokesman tweeted out a memorable
picture, already memorable. It's made the rounds and people have been commenting on it. This is Sully. It is the president's service dog.
Resting alongside the coffin of his master.
Sully was trained to help disabled war veterans and was assigned to President Bush after the former first lady Barbara Bush died earlier this
year. Sully is flying on Air Force One back to Washington and he will be, we understand, continuing to help other war vets after Bush's funeral.
There you have it. "Mission Complete," was the caption.
GORANI: That's going to do it for me. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. There's a lot more news ahead on CNN. Of course, the very latest
on our top stories, what's going on in Paris, those protests and also the latest on that truce between the U.S. and China regarding trade tariffs and
their impact on the stock markets.
You'll have all of that with Richard Quest at the top of the hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." As for me, I bid you adieu farewell for now and see you
same time, same place tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
